http://www.physorg.com/news9535.html
NASA has a plasma thruster called VASIMIR. It uses a magnetic bottle of hydrogen heated to millions of degrees by microwaves. They estimate that VASIMIR can propel a manned flight to Mars that takes two months or less. The power source would be a nuclear reactor and that is probably the reason that they have not constructed a full scale model.
Relayed info> Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip
IAN JOHNSTON
SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.
The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.
The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.
Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.
The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.
Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.
However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.
"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.
"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.
"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."
He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.
"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [US] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."
The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".
IAN JOHNSTON
SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.
The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.
The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.
Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.
The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.
Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.
However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.
"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.
"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.
"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."
He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.
"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [US] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."
The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".
Hi Philip, You can access the published theory you describe at (www.zpenergy.com). Lots of theoretical physics mentioned in the paper. A word of caution, as Prof. Hauser states, "The benefits would be almost unlimited", to me also implies that the dangers of miss-use or accident are also unlimited! The propulsion system described (Which harnesses a vast amount of energy) could explode upon startup. Can anyone know for sure that the entire solar system might explode also as a result? The destructive power of this technology, used as a weapon would most likely be pursued by the military or terrorists. This thread should be used to discuss the theoretical physics involved (Extra dimensions, gravitophotons, etc.), and the future implications as well. Bye for now-Mike001.
Actually, I dont agree with the work, I only found it.
A flying saucer, like the one shown on the box of the Testor's Silver Saucer, will get you there much faster.
A flying saucer, like the one shown on the box of the Testor's Silver Saucer, will get you there much faster.
phillip347,
Oh good. I was afraid you'd been seduced by the dark side or something.
Here's a little thought experiment for those that believe in higher dimensional travel to consider.
A universe with no dimensions is a non-dimensional point.
A universe with one dimension can have distance. So, let's consider two points (a) and (b) separated by a given distance (x). The universe is comprised of a line passing through the distance (x) and the two points. The shortest distance from (a) to (b) is (x).
A universe with two dimensions is represented by a plane. Let's expand our last universe into two dimensions and add a point (d) that lies outside of the vector (x). We can state that the distance from (a) to (d) is (y) and from (b) to (d) is (z). In this universe, the shortest distance from (a) to (b) is still (x).
Let's move into a universe like our own and give it 3 spacial dimensions. As I think should be apparent, in 3 dimensions the shortest distance from (a) to (b) is still (x).
It seems apparent that adding dimensions does not necessarily provide a means for a shortcut between (a) and (b).
Let's suppose the universe is folded into a fourth spacial dimension (like you can fold a two-dimensional universe over into the third dimension). Then perhaps, you might have available shortcuts, but only between certain points that are relative to each other from one side of the fold to the other. However, recent investigations indicate space-time is flat.
So, quick trips to any ol' where, are not likely (even in a folded universe) and trips into a fourth dimension in a flat universe will only add distance to the trip.
Oh good. I was afraid you'd been seduced by the dark side or something.
Here's a little thought experiment for those that believe in higher dimensional travel to consider.
A universe with no dimensions is a non-dimensional point.
A universe with one dimension can have distance. So, let's consider two points (a) and (b) separated by a given distance (x). The universe is comprised of a line passing through the distance (x) and the two points. The shortest distance from (a) to (b) is (x).
A universe with two dimensions is represented by a plane. Let's expand our last universe into two dimensions and add a point (d) that lies outside of the vector (x). We can state that the distance from (a) to (d) is (y) and from (b) to (d) is (z). In this universe, the shortest distance from (a) to (b) is still (x).
Let's move into a universe like our own and give it 3 spacial dimensions. As I think should be apparent, in 3 dimensions the shortest distance from (a) to (b) is still (x).
It seems apparent that adding dimensions does not necessarily provide a means for a shortcut between (a) and (b).
Let's suppose the universe is folded into a fourth spacial dimension (like you can fold a two-dimensional universe over into the third dimension). Then perhaps, you might have available shortcuts, but only between certain points that are relative to each other from one side of the fold to the other. However, recent investigations indicate space-time is flat.
So, quick trips to any ol' where, are not likely (even in a folded universe) and trips into a fourth dimension in a flat universe will only add distance to the trip.
Your thought experiment is great but over looks the main point of the previous post. That being traveling in higher dimensions could mean traveling at speeds greater than the posted limit. We all know the faster you travel the faster you get there. It appears to me that we find new revelations that lay flat previous conceptions, like heliocentric notios or the flat earth. Time most assuredly will reveal a greater truth which in turn will be reviled at some later point in time. Just on the surface flat space doesn't sound like a greater truth if one were to guess as to where we are going with all of this.
wokwokwok,
Sure, why not? Or, we might get stuck in a dimension made of peanut butter and bananas. Maybe we'll see Elvis there!
The problem I have with this (other than the reported metaphysical aspect of Heim's work) is that there is no observation (that I know of) purported to support such a hypothesis. Large and strong electro-magnetic fields exist in nature and have been experimented with in labs. As far as I know, no one has seen anything disappear in one.
I just feel that anything that might so obviously demolish the laws of physics so thoroughly (conservation, motion, relativity, etc.), deserves great skepticism. That doesn't mean it should be ignored, but I wouldn't be too quick to get all excited about it either.
Assuming there are higher dimensions, why might we assume they are empty and just waiting for us to find and use them? If mass distribution in them is anything like mass distribution in our three dimensions (only exponentially more so due to the exponential amount of extra space for it), we'd see obvious and apparent signs of its existence.
Perhaps I'm just too much of a pragmatist.
QUOTE
traveling in higher dimensions could mean traveling at speeds greater than the posted limit.
Sure, why not? Or, we might get stuck in a dimension made of peanut butter and bananas. Maybe we'll see Elvis there!
The problem I have with this (other than the reported metaphysical aspect of Heim's work) is that there is no observation (that I know of) purported to support such a hypothesis. Large and strong electro-magnetic fields exist in nature and have been experimented with in labs. As far as I know, no one has seen anything disappear in one.
I just feel that anything that might so obviously demolish the laws of physics so thoroughly (conservation, motion, relativity, etc.), deserves great skepticism. That doesn't mean it should be ignored, but I wouldn't be too quick to get all excited about it either.
Assuming there are higher dimensions, why might we assume they are empty and just waiting for us to find and use them? If mass distribution in them is anything like mass distribution in our three dimensions (only exponentially more so due to the exponential amount of extra space for it), we'd see obvious and apparent signs of its existence.
Perhaps I'm just too much of a pragmatist.
I think the bit in all this that is the most concerning is the speed in which everyone seems to want to disparage the idea of translating/converting an electromagnetic force into a gravitational one (the crux of the maths) and the various forces and their applications that arise as a consequence. Cant remember who said it but some one said "about 3 people in the world understand Relativity the rest of us just know how to make it do things (Fermi??)"
Until they did the experiments and had a very good reason to turn an interesting theory into a working application nuclear physics was still just a very poorly understood bit of interesting maths.
So how about we test the theory properly as Goddard, Von Braun, Wright brothers did and do a little less "you will never get it off the ground - how does it flap its wings???"
Until they did the experiments and had a very good reason to turn an interesting theory into a working application nuclear physics was still just a very poorly understood bit of interesting maths.
So how about we test the theory properly as Goddard, Von Braun, Wright brothers did and do a little less "you will never get it off the ground - how does it flap its wings???"
won't work.
The thruster will over heat from from the miorwive heat in side the casting.
you have made a bomb not a thruster.
will not make the leap.
The thruster will over heat from from the miorwive heat in side the casting.
you have made a bomb not a thruster.
will not make the leap.
QUOTE (Neil Farbstein+Jan 5 2006, 08:54 PM)
http://www.physorg.com/news9535.html
NASA has a plasma thruster called VASIMIR. It uses a magnetic bottle of hydrogen heated to millions of degrees by microwaves. They estimate that VASIMIR can propel a manned flight to Mars that takes two months or less. The power source would be a nuclear reactor and that is probably the reason that they have not constructed a full scale model.
Chang Diaz, the head of Ad Astra Rocket Co., has estimated the trip can be made in as little as 39 days. He is testing a prototype this coming January. The next stage is a flying model.
I hereby volunteer myself to be the 2nd test pilot, where we start counting from the first pilot that doesn't get killed.
See To Mars and Beyond
NASA has a plasma thruster called VASIMIR. It uses a magnetic bottle of hydrogen heated to millions of degrees by microwaves. They estimate that VASIMIR can propel a manned flight to Mars that takes two months or less. The power source would be a nuclear reactor and that is probably the reason that they have not constructed a full scale model.
Chang Diaz, the head of Ad Astra Rocket Co., has estimated the trip can be made in as little as 39 days. He is testing a prototype this coming January. The next stage is a flying model.
I hereby volunteer myself to be the 2nd test pilot, where we start counting from the first pilot that doesn't get killed.
See To Mars and Beyond
I just want to point out that a human being could not survive inside a magnetic field that strong, and neither could computer circuitry. This would rip the iron right out of your blood like in the X-men movie.
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