fire_extinguisher
Hello people,

Is it true that you can go faster than the speed of light as long as you don't accelerate faster than the speed of light? If so, could you build a spaceship that accelerates instantaneously and go faster than the speed of light?

thnx
amac
I don't think you can accelerate a spaceship instantaneously - there is inertia to overcome. Also, I believe the problem with approaching light speed is that more and more energy is needed, approaching infinity the closer one gets.
bunthulhu
I don't think that's true.

Also, instantaneous acceleration would just be faster than anything, including the speed of light, so I don't think that would work
Condraz23
A power source which exerts infinite kinetic energy would be nessecary to break the light barrier, instantaneously too. Unfortunetly, the fundamental concept of such a vehicle would be impossible to recreate.
Harry Costas
Hello All
This is my first day at this forum. Am I excited.

Speed of light

Some say that the speed of gravity is much greater than that of light.
some say 10 times
others say 20 times
and there are some that say
infinite.

Regardless, what if gravity does travel much faster.
This would give man a tool to travel much faster than light and communicate at extra ordinary times.

WOW is the word that comes to mind.
Nick
Light travels in its own time- 300000 kilometers per second
If a matter(a spaceship) speeds up to near light speed its clock could go 10 times slower. In this way the spaceship can exceed light's travel. By a very slow clock matter would have extra seconds to move in.

Matters slow clock allows it to get further than light in the same amount of time.
Harry Costas
Hello Nick

Where did you get that info for the clock?

Nick
The slowdown of a clock is known as the transdoppler effect or the slowdown of time with an objects speed. It's in Special Relativity.

Einstein's Universe by Nigel Calder will do the trick. I started there when I was 15.
555Joshua
Matter cannot travel faster than the speed of light. It takes infanite momentum to get something with mass to travel as fast as the speed of light.
Guest
I think that gravitational effects are propogated at the speed of light.
Guest

>Light travels in its own time- 300000 kilometers per second
>If a matter(a spaceship) speeds up to near light speed its clock could go 10 times >slower. In this way the spaceship can exceed light's travel. By a very slow clock >matter would have extra seconds to move in.

>Matters slow clock allows it to get further than light in the same amount of time.

Everything here is completely wrong.

Light doesn't travel in its own time. Time measurements are only meaningful when one assumes a reference frame for making such a measurement. Any inertial reference frame (non-acclerating) will measure the same value for the speed of light, but time and distance measurements will be different.

The transformations for time and space measurements between inertial reference frames are well known, and do not allow for observations of objects moving faster than the speed of light.

If you are in reference frame A, and see an spaceship B moving 95% the speed of light, and spaceship B sees a spaceship C moving 95% the speed of light faster than B, then you in A will see spaceship C moving something like 98% the speed of light.

The distortions of clocks and rulers in each reference frame prevent you from measuring anything going faster than the speed of light.

One furthur thing about light moving through time - I've heard arguments that all things move through space-time at the speed of light. Light moves primarily through the x,y,z space axes, but do not move through time at all, that is, light does not age. Everyday objects only move a little bit through the x,y,z axes, but move close to the speed of light through time.
Nick
QUOTE (555Joshua+May 1 2006, 11:51 AM)
Matter cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

if your clock is going slower than light's then you can.
Shemi
QUOTE
if your clock is going slower than light's then you can

only from your point of view would you be arriving somewhere faster than you think light should travel

however, to a stationary outside observer matter cannot travel between two points faster than twice the time it takes light

furthermore if someone outside your moving frame sent a beam of light to you you would see it arrive at the speed of light (and if you sent a beam of light back it would travel and arrive at the speed of light)
Nick
By your old - stay at home - map you would travel faster than light by your slower clock(time.) But if you measure your space in your new map it will be contracted. Thus you are traveling slower than light.

A slow clock can give you a faster than light travel by your old map and that is what is important to space travel.
amac
QUOTE (555Joshua+May 1 2006, 11:51 AM)
Matter cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

Matter can't, but what about pure energy? Or is that limited to the speed of light as well?
Guest_Knot of this world
Light is the point at which matter comes into being.

It exists on the edge of 'chaos', that is to say the realm between physical being and non-physical being. This is why it is holographic in nature, and is perceived as both 'particle' and 'wave'.

Physical matter cannot travel faster than its own creation! However...

Beyond 'light speed' there is instantaneous connection, and this has evolved in a 3-D environment into what we barely understand as 'consciousness'...

And so, non-physical instantaneous 'travel' is not only possible, but already happens all the time. The 'problem' is our failure to understand our own laws of being. We think that the non-physical world can be made 'physical', as we believe ourselves to be masters of manipulation, when what we manipulate the most is our own imaginations.

Reality is Infinite, and therefore beyond the Human imagination, even though we have a very tenuous link to it...

k.
Nick
Quantum waves are sometimes siad to be superluminal.
Xilatum
Here I bring you in simple words what can be told on the motor one hipergravitacional.

The base of the system of impulsion proposed by H.Droscher and J.Hauser is the torsión, deformation or annulment of a gravitational field by the induction of magnetic fields.

Said idea, is not novel, comes being investigated for the NASA for various years. But the idea of Droscher/Hauser has a very different context that stems from the theories of a very little acquaintance and brilliant German physicist, Burkhardt Heim and they leave from the idea of a space 8-dimensional where the gravity and the electromagnetism work as a single force

The mechanism proposed supposes a powerful revolving magnetic field that annuls the gravitational field of the vehicle that carries it facilitating the step extradimensional to regions where the laws physical acquaintances, the constant and the same velocity of the light podrian to be altered.

Put it to test would require a ring enormous newspaper placed on a reel superconductora to create an intense magnetic field. A spaceship of 150 tons would need to create magnetic field of 25 teslas, the equivalent one to 500.000 times the force of the magnetic field of the land.

In that state the gravitofotones (particles contemplated in the Theory of Heim) would do reciprocally with conventional gravity to produce a force antigravedad revolting, achieving thus not alone the impulse, but the leap dimensional and to reach velocities several times superiors to that of the light, which would permit to reach Mars in less than 3 hours and in 30 you gave to Alpha Centauri.

Does not it stop calling powerfully the attention that this project in which was not submitted al analysis of its peers, have been rewarded by the AIAA; is very probable that have influenced in its revisores in which the paper is based on them plant you exposed in the Theory of Heim which, among others things, predicts with amazing accuracy the masses of the atomic particles.

The majority of the engineers they say that to put to test these ideas is not possible with the materials and the existing technology. But Roger Lenard, investigator of Spatial Propulsion in the national laboratories of Sandia in New Mexico thinks that could be feasible. In Sandia a powerful generator of X-rays functions known like “machine Z” with the one that would be able to generate the intensities and the gradients to test experimentally the proposal of Droscher/Hauser/Heim.

It is not dificil to suppose that in these moments already they should know if functions or not.
If does not him function we will know fast.
If there is not news..

Xilatum

howtothinklikegod

I don't get it.
Aireal
Xilatum
Interesting, a 25 tesla magnetic field is about the strength field you need to stop cosmic radiation, see my post on the subject. Recent experaments with superconducters spinning in and strong field has produced results that may prove that gravity waves can be produced in the lab. However the effect is so small that even a small 150 ton spacecraft would not notice the effect.

As for the majority of engineers saying that it is not possible to test such concepts with existing materials and technology, I would say they are not trying hard enough, and perhaps a lack of funding may also be to blame. I do not think faster than light travel will be possible any time soon, but will not rule out the possibility.
Confused2
Hi Xilatum,

An interesting post.. many thanks. One detail..

QUOTE
Xilatum

Put it to test would require a ring enormous newspaper placed on a reel superconductora to create an intense magnetic field. A spaceship of 150 tons would need to create magnetic field of 25 teslas, the equivalent one to 500.000 times the force of the magnetic field of the land.

Newspaper? I think a spellchecker or something might have got into the works here .. any chance of another attempt at translating whatever it was that came out as newspaper?

-C2.
Sirius
I don't think that would be possible. Light travels at a speed of about 300000kph(186000 miles per sec.) According to Einstein's equation E=mc^2 nothing can travel faster than light.Because of the equivalence of energy and mass, the energy which an object has due to it's motion will add up to it's mass. At about 10% the speed of light an object's mass is about 0.5% the normal mass. But at 90% the speed of light it would be more than twice it's mass. As the speed approaches light's speed the increase in mass is very quick, so it takes more and more energy to speed it up further. It can never reach light's speed because by then it's mass would have become infinite and it would infinite amount of energy to get it there, due to energy- mass equivalence. So an object cannot travel at the speed of light.
avec
Keep in mind that speed and acceleration are different things. Light does not accelerate. It goes at a constant speed relative to the observer. You can accelerate until you reach a speed near that of light, but the rate of acceleration has no limit. Although I do wonder... black holes have intense gravity acceleration fields... could you accelerate so quickly that your g-forces would curve spacetime into a singularity? Maybe not - maybe what makes a black hole a black hole is not its gravity field, but the gravitational potential at its boundary. By the way, do the math and figure out what happens to things that go beyond lightspeed. Time does not start flowing backwards. Rather, time becomes imaginary. What is imaginary time?
hdeasy
QUOTE (Xilatum+May 4 2006, 04:13 PM)
The base of the system of impulsion proposed by H.Droscher and J.Hauser is the torsión, deformation or annulment of a gravitational field by the induction of magnetic fields.

Said idea, is not novel, comes being investigated for the NASA for various years. But the idea of Droscher/Hauser has a very different context that stems from the theories of a very little acquaintance and brilliant German physicist, Burkhardt Heim and they leave from the idea of a space 8-dimensional where the gravity and the electromagnetism work as a single force

The mechanism proposed supposes a powerful revolving magnetic field that annuls the gravitational field of the vehicle that carries it facilitating the step extradimensional to regions where the laws physical acquaintances, the constant and the same velocity of the light podrian to be altered.

Put it to test would require a ring enormous newspaper placed on a reel superconductora to create an intense magnetic field. A spaceship of 150 tons would need to create magnetic field of 25 teslas, the equivalent one to 500.000 times the force of the magnetic field of the land.

In that state the gravitofotones (particles contemplated in the Theory of Heim) would do reciprocally with conventional gravity to produce a force antigravedad revolting, achieving thus not alone the impulse, but the leap dimensional and to reach velocities several times superiors to that of the light, which would permit to reach Mars in less than 3 hours and in 30 you gave to Alpha Centauri.

Does not it stop calling powerfully the attention that this project in which was not submitted al analysis of its peers, have been rewarded by the AIAA; is very probable that have influenced in its revisores in which the paper is based on them plant you exposed in the Theory of Heim which, among others things, predicts with amazing accuracy the masses of the atomic particles.

The majority of the engineers they say that to put to test these ideas is not possible with the materials and the existing technology. But Roger Lenard, investigator of Spatial Propulsion in the national laboratories of Sandia in New Mexico thinks that could be feasible. In Sandia a powerful generator of X-rays functions known like “machine Z” with the one that would be able to generate the intensities and the gradients to test experimentally the proposal of Droscher/Hauser/Heim.

It is not dificil to suppose that in these moments already they should know if functions or not.
If does not him function we will know fast.
If there is not news..

Xilatum

Droscher & Hauser have looked at the experiment of Martin Tajmar, which ESA announced as teh first successful proof of quantum gravity, in some detail now and conclude that their problem before was that they were using fermions - with bosons the threshold goes down.

What's really exciting is that they've now produced a theory for Tajmar et al.'s findings - i.e. they derive the gravitophoton effect in the Tajmar experiment - and reproduce the value of the Quantum London moment almost exactly (H & D's value is 1.3 x 10**-4 g, compared to 1.0 x 10**-4 g measured by Tajmar et al., where g is acceleration due to gravity at Earth's surface!!

This sort of agreement, considering the complexity of their calculation, is a sensation, as they say - considering that GR gets the answer wrong by many orders of magnitude. The paper may cause a lot of interest when presented to the AIAA in July in Sacramento, California. Tajmar et al.'s trick was that they used bosons in their coils in the form of Cooper pairs, whereas Droscher & Hauser had always used good old fermions in their propulsion coils. Now they want to switch - i.e. they might not need the Z-machine any more! A relatively 'cheap' lab set-up like Tajmar's would do the job - I've seen the pre-print of the paper which H & D will present - in July it will become generally available.

hdeasy
Nick
Faster than light travel is possible because your clock can go slow. You have extra seconds to travel in. Light has its own clock time to travel in. And it is faster than moving matters. So moving matter has more time than light to get to where it is going.
AlphaNumeric
^ That makes no sense at all. Just because you have time dilation doesn't mean you are moving faster than light. You'll still measure light moving at light speed and anyone watching you will see you being overtaken by light.

How exactly would time dilation allow for it?
Nick
But if your clock is going slow then you have more time to travel in than light does. Light has its own clock 186282 miles per second. You never catch up to light. It is simply your time slowing that gives you the capacity to travel farther than light could.
rpenner
QUOTE (hdeasy+Jul 4 2006, 01:40 PM)
Droscher & Hauser have ... now produced a theory for Tajmar et al.'s findings - i.e. they derive the gravitophoton effect in the Tajmar experiment - and reproduce the value of the Quantum London moment almost exactly (H & D's value is 1.3 x 10**-4 g, compared to 1.0 x 10**-4 g measured by Tajmar et al., where g is acceleration due to gravity at Earth's surface!!

2) realize that the art in convincing people that your math is good is to predict -- that is make your numerical predictions before the experiment. So far Heim enthusiasts do a lot of "yeah Heim can do that" for new experiments, even weird new experiments, and where Heim does make numerical predictions (for certain particles which Heim theory says must exist) where is the confirming experiment?
Good Elf
Hi all,

You can't go faster than light but that is simply a technical statement. No matter what the inertial frame of reference (allowing for propagation delays) light always appears to expands on the surface of a perfect sphere centered on the position in the observer inertial frame of reference where the light "pulse" was originally launched. To compensate for this "apparent" anomaly, the motion of the source affects the frequency of the received light signal. If moving away it is red shifted and if moving towards the observer it is blue shifted. Different observers in the one inertial frame see different "effects" even though all observers are at rest relative to each other.

Nick is basically correct in what he says here. I would say that the question is not "faster than the speed of light" but on the time to travel a particular distance according to different observers in different inertial frames. The assumption is that a traveler starts in one inertial frame where he synchronizes his clock with the clocks in that frame. He then accelerates away on a long trip. Upon his return his clock has "lost a lot of time" according to clocks that remain behind. This is not due to faulty clocks but to actual missing time. The accelerating clock has run slow. This means relative to clocks left behind the crew of the spaceship has "overestimated" their speed... sometimes quite dramatically. What is an anomaly to those making this assertion is the "paradox" that the crew "actually appears a lot younger than twins left behind". This is no paradox but it is "worrying" to many people.

The actual perceptual speed that a traveler would see on a "speedometer" on the dash of his spaceship would need to be calibrated from zero to infinity, since the time it takes to cross "space" simply depends on the availability of energy for acceleration and the crew's tolerance for that acceleration and the on-board time alloted for the trip.

On return to the start point there will be a great discrepancy in the clocks. This "discrepancy" is due solely to acceleration of the spaceship. Another spaceship could make an "equivalent" journey in a totally different direction and rendezvous back at base at the same elapsed travel time and it could be arranged that the elapsed time matches the first travelers time. It is just a comparison between clocks.

If all clocks could be "encouraged" to cross space at the same rate without that acceleration that initially appears necessary, then all clocks could maintain synchronization and yet cover the same "distance". This could be accomplished by modification of the mass of the spaceships. The accelerations would be "inertial" and the inertial frames could be "dragged" to different parts of the Universe "without time penalties". I am watching carefully the results of Gravity Probe B to answer this important question. A previous less accurate experiment suggests this question might already be answered in the affirmative. This would be a form of "quantum drive" where the spaceships matter wave would be modifiable..

Lambda is the wavelength and m is the mass.
Cheers
Nick
Acceleration changes time, space and mass. The energy that goes into accelerating a mass shows up as more mass.
Good Elf
Hi Nick,

QUOTE (Nick Posted on Today at 11:01 AM+)
Acceleration changes time, space and mass. The energy that goes into accelerating a mass shows up as more mass.
Not really. There is an "equivalence" to mass but it certainly will not lead to any measurable change in mass in the rest frame of the system since energy is "unreferenced" and depends on an arbitary "zero". For instance kinetic energy depends on velocity but relative to what inertial frame is that velocity measured? The energy is not "absolute". Relativity says all inertial frames are equivalent and that the laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames... so the statement by itself is meaningless.

Cheers
The Instigator
Xilatum.... come on. Instead of cannibalizing an article you don't seem to understand just post the link. The article it seems xilatum regurgitated can be found at www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925331.200. I know this won't satisfy your desire to sound like you know what you are talking about, but writing an intelligent post is more than just joining together other peoples ideas with big words and fancy talk. Poor spelling and bad grammar doesn't help either.
Deathlyhem
QUOTE (The Instigator+Apr 16 2008, 03:13 PM)
Xilatum.... come on. Instead of cannibalizing an article you don't seem to understand just post the link. The article it seems xilatum regurgitated can be found at www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925331.200. I know this won't satisfy your desire to sound like you know what you are talking about, but writing an intelligent post is more than just joining together other peoples ideas with big words and fancy talk. Poor spelling and bad grammar doesn't help either.

Yeah man, this guy's an oceanic planet short of a water molecule.

barakn
QUOTE (The Instigator+Apr 16 2008, 03:13 PM)
Xilatum.... come on. Instead of cannibalizing an article you don't seem to understand just post the link. The article it seems xilatum regurgitated can be found at www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925331.200. I know this won't satisfy your desire to sound like you know what you are talking about, but writing an intelligent post is more than just joining together other peoples ideas with big words and fancy talk. Poor spelling and bad grammar doesn't help either.

Xilatum last posted in 2006, and only made a total of 3 posts. From various words scattered in the posts its obvious that Xilatum's native language is Spanish, not English. I'm not sure why you decided to revive this extremely old thread just to pick on this person. Perhaps that's why you are named The Instigator?
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