in almost every culture around the world, the dragon has been a part of legend. even cultures that didn"t even know each other exsited until recently have the same creature. i find through research that it was entirely possible for dragons to have exsisted with all of there legendary powers and abiliities, even the fire breathing. what do you think?
well ay, could there not have been a few dino's about. I thought the metior thing was still just theory, coss of them bee's that seemed to survive. I think the history about dino's etc is a load of balls. We dont know squat.
Hi dragonkid,
There are two or more possible sources for the dragon legends.
1) They were some type of natural dinosaur-like creature
2) They were extraterrestrials
3) They were the flying craft of extraterrestrials or of a previous earth civilization
z
There are two or more possible sources for the dragon legends.
1) They were some type of natural dinosaur-like creature
2) They were extraterrestrials
3) They were the flying craft of extraterrestrials or of a previous earth civilization
z
or maybe they were deamons!
..if your inclinded to think that way ofcourse.
I regard it as more likely that dragons were conceived as fantasies in some culture, perhap in China, and the concept spread by bards, minstrels, and artists.
The fantasy model might even have been conceived earlier, even before China was settled by humans.
If dragons really existed, I believe it likely that some fossil traces would have been discovered by now.
There are bombadier beetles, of course, but that's a far cry from a large flying critter that could breath fire.
The fantasy model might even have been conceived earlier, even before China was settled by humans.
If dragons really existed, I believe it likely that some fossil traces would have been discovered by now.
There are bombadier beetles, of course, but that's a far cry from a large flying critter that could breath fire.
Hi All,
I have seen Komodo Dragons. They are large Lizards up to 12 feet long and weigh up to 300 pounds and hunt in packs. They at least certainly do exist. In a Museum here in Brisbane we have a model of another Monitor Lizard which stood about the height of a full grown man and 30 ft long. This is very like the Komodo Dragon's really big brother. Now they were part of Australia's Megafauna 30,000 years ago but are long gone now. This is within the living memory of modern humans. Who knows what else once existed out there.
Komodo Dragon
There are also rumors of giant arboreal lizards in the jungles of Papua New Guinea even bigger than the Komodo Dragon. They are so rare that their existence is still a relative secret for their protection.
Now there were really big Dinosaurs including a Pteranodon the size of a fighter jet. Those eagles in Lord of the Rings were around in New Zealand 12,000 years ago and are gone but they once existed. Who knows? Just recently in Indonesia they found the remains of "Hobbits". They are not "humans" but were as intelligent and upright as humans, just smaller. I would like to see them "resurrected" some day using advanced technology. I can live in hope can't I?
The Hobbits of Indonesia
I would not hold out any hope though...
Cheers
I have seen Komodo Dragons. They are large Lizards up to 12 feet long and weigh up to 300 pounds and hunt in packs. They at least certainly do exist. In a Museum here in Brisbane we have a model of another Monitor Lizard which stood about the height of a full grown man and 30 ft long. This is very like the Komodo Dragon's really big brother. Now they were part of Australia's Megafauna 30,000 years ago but are long gone now. This is within the living memory of modern humans. Who knows what else once existed out there.
Komodo Dragon
There are also rumors of giant arboreal lizards in the jungles of Papua New Guinea even bigger than the Komodo Dragon. They are so rare that their existence is still a relative secret for their protection.
Now there were really big Dinosaurs including a Pteranodon the size of a fighter jet. Those eagles in Lord of the Rings were around in New Zealand 12,000 years ago and are gone but they once existed. Who knows? Just recently in Indonesia they found the remains of "Hobbits". They are not "humans" but were as intelligent and upright as humans, just smaller. I would like to see them "resurrected" some day using advanced technology. I can live in hope can't I?
The Hobbits of Indonesia
QUOTE
The ebu gogo were short - about a meter tall - long-haired, pot-bellied, with ears that stuck out, walking with a slightly awkward gait, and had longish arms and fingers. They murmured at each other and could repeat words parrot-fashion. They could climb slender trees but were never seen holding stone tools, whereas we have lots of sophisticated artifacts associated with Homo floresiensis. That’s the only inconsistency with the archaeological evidence.
Local villagers say that the last ebu gogo was seen just before Dutch colonists came to the island, in the 19th century, fueling speculation, encouraged by Bert Roberts, that the species could have survived to this day. He plans searches of the remaining rainforest and specific caves associated with the ebu gogo legends.
Local villagers say that the last ebu gogo was seen just before Dutch colonists came to the island, in the 19th century, fueling speculation, encouraged by Bert Roberts, that the species could have survived to this day. He plans searches of the remaining rainforest and specific caves associated with the ebu gogo legends.
I would not hold out any hope though...
Cheers
Yes, dragons did exist in real life in every culture. But now we know them
by two names: Cattle, and sea serpent.
Take a look an old literature on European "dragon" and you find that they were
not the skyscraper size creatures depicted in comic books, but the size of
cattles, because that's what they were.
Cattles always barf methane gas and they are curious creatures that occasionally
get attracted to fire, rather than repelled by it as lowly creatures are.
If it gets too close, the continuous methane gas that comes out of its mouth
is ignited, and seeing a fire in front of themselves, them go wako, running
amok and setting everything around them on fire. Since homes and agricultural
products will burn without the help of fire extinguishers, they were much
feared.
It sounds dumb, but farmers occasionally make the news when they do bring a
flame in front of a cow and it run amok, setting the barn on fire.
There is a lesser known sea serpent that has a head like a horse that's
occasionally documented and about as big as a telephone pole that's said to be
the sea dragon.
Why were they both called "dragons"? People in the past generalized everything.
That's why anemic people who craved blood were called vampires. People whose
skin burned in the Sun's ultraviolet light were called vampires. People who
were bitten by a mad dog and feared water were called vampires and so on.
by two names: Cattle, and sea serpent.
Take a look an old literature on European "dragon" and you find that they were
not the skyscraper size creatures depicted in comic books, but the size of
cattles, because that's what they were.
Cattles always barf methane gas and they are curious creatures that occasionally
get attracted to fire, rather than repelled by it as lowly creatures are.
If it gets too close, the continuous methane gas that comes out of its mouth
is ignited, and seeing a fire in front of themselves, them go wako, running
amok and setting everything around them on fire. Since homes and agricultural
products will burn without the help of fire extinguishers, they were much
feared.
It sounds dumb, but farmers occasionally make the news when they do bring a
flame in front of a cow and it run amok, setting the barn on fire.
There is a lesser known sea serpent that has a head like a horse that's
occasionally documented and about as big as a telephone pole that's said to be
the sea dragon.
Why were they both called "dragons"? People in the past generalized everything.
That's why anemic people who craved blood were called vampires. People whose
skin burned in the Sun's ultraviolet light were called vampires. People who
were bitten by a mad dog and feared water were called vampires and so on.
QUOTE (laser+May 16 2005, 08:14 PM)
Yes, dragons did exist in real life in every culture. But now we know them
by two names: Cattle, and sea serpent.
Take a look an old literature on European "dragon" and you find that they were
not the skyscraper size creatures depicted in comic books, but the size of
cattles, because that's what they were.
Cattles always barf methane gas and they are curious creatures that occasionally
get attracted to fire, rather than repelled by it as lowly creatures are.
If it gets too close, the continuous methane gas that comes out of its mouth
is ignited, and seeing a fire in front of themselves, them go wako, running
amok and setting everything around them on fire. Since homes and agricultural
products will burn without the help of fire extinguishers, they were much
feared.
It sounds dumb, but farmers occasionally make the news when they do bring a
flame in front of a cow and it run amok, setting the barn on fire.
There is a lesser known sea serpent that has a head like a horse that's
occasionally documented and about as big as a telephone pole that's said to be
the sea dragon.
Why were they both called "dragons"? People in the past generalized everything.
That's why anemic people who craved blood were called vampires. People whose
skin burned in the Sun's ultraviolet light were called vampires. People who
were bitten by a mad dog and feared water were called vampires and so on.
yeah.. either that or it was aliens...
by two names: Cattle, and sea serpent.
Take a look an old literature on European "dragon" and you find that they were
not the skyscraper size creatures depicted in comic books, but the size of
cattles, because that's what they were.
Cattles always barf methane gas and they are curious creatures that occasionally
get attracted to fire, rather than repelled by it as lowly creatures are.
If it gets too close, the continuous methane gas that comes out of its mouth
is ignited, and seeing a fire in front of themselves, them go wako, running
amok and setting everything around them on fire. Since homes and agricultural
products will burn without the help of fire extinguishers, they were much
feared.
It sounds dumb, but farmers occasionally make the news when they do bring a
flame in front of a cow and it run amok, setting the barn on fire.
There is a lesser known sea serpent that has a head like a horse that's
occasionally documented and about as big as a telephone pole that's said to be
the sea dragon.
Why were they both called "dragons"? People in the past generalized everything.
That's why anemic people who craved blood were called vampires. People whose
skin burned in the Sun's ultraviolet light were called vampires. People who
were bitten by a mad dog and feared water were called vampires and so on.
yeah.. either that or it was aliens...
A great many reasons and ideas have been put forward for the existence of Dragons, Vampires, Werewolves etc.
Considering how many Dragons were slain in various European folklores, it's interesting to see that not one part of any dragon's remains have ever been uncovered, you would have thought that such things would be kept as trophies at least once. That said, they are extremely prominent in a great number of Myths and legends, from the Eastern 'Serpents of Sea and Air' which were mainly benevolent, to the much more malevolent European version.
I suspect the whole 'breathing fire' part of the Dragon stories (which mainly occured in Western tales) was more a matter of making them appear more fearsome, after all, it's a lot more valiant to say 'I hath killed a 3-storey tall monster that did spit hellfire', rather than 'I went out on a quest 3 months ago and hath found bugger all'.
The Eastern tales of serpents have often been attributed to Giant Squid or the like, whales have been found with sucker marks on them that prove that there are far larger squid in the depths of the ocean than we have so far encountered.
The thing is, you can't just take a small lizard, stick wings on it, supersize it and then expect it to fly, something the quoted size of a Dragon would be as manouverable as a potato in the air, and would probably shred it's wings in the first beat. Even if it did have hollow bones and used hydrogen in it's stomach to increase lift (another theory as to how they could breath fire), you're basically talking about a Hindenburg of a monster, you wouldn't need a lance to kill it, they'd be on the verge of exploding every minute of the day.
So, no, I remain very sceptical about the existence of Dragons, but I do think we need them, if not in the world then in our minds, just as we need Elves, Unicorns, Vampires and Werewolves
Considering how many Dragons were slain in various European folklores, it's interesting to see that not one part of any dragon's remains have ever been uncovered, you would have thought that such things would be kept as trophies at least once. That said, they are extremely prominent in a great number of Myths and legends, from the Eastern 'Serpents of Sea and Air' which were mainly benevolent, to the much more malevolent European version.
I suspect the whole 'breathing fire' part of the Dragon stories (which mainly occured in Western tales) was more a matter of making them appear more fearsome, after all, it's a lot more valiant to say 'I hath killed a 3-storey tall monster that did spit hellfire', rather than 'I went out on a quest 3 months ago and hath found bugger all'.
The Eastern tales of serpents have often been attributed to Giant Squid or the like, whales have been found with sucker marks on them that prove that there are far larger squid in the depths of the ocean than we have so far encountered.
The thing is, you can't just take a small lizard, stick wings on it, supersize it and then expect it to fly, something the quoted size of a Dragon would be as manouverable as a potato in the air, and would probably shred it's wings in the first beat. Even if it did have hollow bones and used hydrogen in it's stomach to increase lift (another theory as to how they could breath fire), you're basically talking about a Hindenburg of a monster, you wouldn't need a lance to kill it, they'd be on the verge of exploding every minute of the day.
So, no, I remain very sceptical about the existence of Dragons, but I do think we need them, if not in the world then in our minds, just as we need Elves, Unicorns, Vampires and Werewolves
It's amazing what people will waste their time debating. Star Wars is coming out!!!
QUOTE
So, no, I remain very sceptical about the existence of Dragons, but I do think we need them, if not in the world then in our minds, just as we need Elves, Unicorns, Vampires and Werewolves
I think Good Elf would refute you that elves are only nessisary in our minds. Without them, who would have saved Middle Earth.
QUOTE (professor andy+May 15 2005, 09:12 PM)
or maybe they were deamons!
u insane were u get that skrewed idea? 
u insane were u get that skrewed idea?
Hi All,
I noticed an "aquatic" reference... I have always suspected that "sea serpents" were large members of the oarfish species, they have that "mane" along their dorsal surface...
Pictures of oarfish
Then there is this picture of a pleisiosaur-like creature from 1970...
pleisiosaur
Usually they are badly decomposed and might be the remains of "basking sharks".
Or this closely associated New Zealand one...
pleisiosaur in NZ
But elves are surely real.... believe me I know!
Cheers
I noticed an "aquatic" reference... I have always suspected that "sea serpents" were large members of the oarfish species, they have that "mane" along their dorsal surface...
Pictures of oarfish
Then there is this picture of a pleisiosaur-like creature from 1970...
pleisiosaur
Usually they are badly decomposed and might be the remains of "basking sharks".
Or this closely associated New Zealand one...
pleisiosaur in NZ
But elves are surely real.... believe me I know!
Cheers
Hey Good Elf...
how very weird!!
Years ago when I had a particularly bad flu, I had these really vivid dreams of a fish, and it wasn't until I saw your pics of the Oarfish, that I even knew it existed.. strange!
As for dragons, like many many things in legend and myth they all have some loose basis in reality, my own take on them is that they were invented in much the same way as we join up unrelated dots on a piece of paper, our brain sees what it wants to see. I personally thought it could have been huge swarms of bats flying out at dusk which could have been mistaken for one huge flying lizard, which is a common site all over asia, but could easily have been mistaken for something else, especially after eating one of the numerous magic mushrooms also found in Asia!
Like flying reindeer in lapland.
how very weird!!
Years ago when I had a particularly bad flu, I had these really vivid dreams of a fish, and it wasn't until I saw your pics of the Oarfish, that I even knew it existed.. strange!
As for dragons, like many many things in legend and myth they all have some loose basis in reality, my own take on them is that they were invented in much the same way as we join up unrelated dots on a piece of paper, our brain sees what it wants to see. I personally thought it could have been huge swarms of bats flying out at dusk which could have been mistaken for one huge flying lizard, which is a common site all over asia, but could easily have been mistaken for something else, especially after eating one of the numerous magic mushrooms also found in Asia!
Like flying reindeer in lapland.
Just out of interest since I was a kid, I was always fascinated about myths and legends of many cultures. I only saw them as stories from the past and not as religious events or such. Dragons, being the animal or reptile (?) most commonly mentioned in every legend encountered, obviously had its significance...
The theory about the cattle breathing fire when getting close to flame is a good one!
Aboriginal legends (Im an aussie!) mention the "dreamtime snake" which is similar to a description of a dragon.
Mayan legends mention the "rainbow serpent" or "Quetzalcoatl". Somehow, official archaeologists did not see a very obvious similarity between the "rainbow serpent" and the "dreamtime snake"
Chinese legends mention the flying dragon, which often is depicted on certain ritual clothing. They even mention the dragon eating the sun to explain the solar eclipse.
The bible mentions the snake (satan or the seven horned beast with 666 on its forehead and the prostitute).
The star constellation Draco in the northern hemisphere.
Babylonian legends mention "Tiamat" the dragon existing before Marduk and his ken came into existence. The world was dark in that time...
The legend of the 7 headed serpent in the ancient legends and statues found in Angkor Wat.
Egyptian legends mention of a chaotic sea of water full of snakes and serpents which inhabited the universe before Amun came into existence. Similar to Babylonian legends.
In many legends dragons and snakes are essentially the same thing... Maybe a dragon was really a flying snake or a cow belching fire? Or perhaps there was a cow with wings that went too close to a flame!
Another thing of interest. This is pure speculation but ive always wondered about the Caduceus symbol often found in many medical practices - it consists of two intertwined serpents twisting around sword. Overall the snakes' unusual shape and direction looks strangely familiar to the double stranded intertwined symbol of the DNA... Maybe the ancients had knowledge of DNA?
The theory about the cattle breathing fire when getting close to flame is a good one!
Aboriginal legends (Im an aussie!) mention the "dreamtime snake" which is similar to a description of a dragon.
Mayan legends mention the "rainbow serpent" or "Quetzalcoatl". Somehow, official archaeologists did not see a very obvious similarity between the "rainbow serpent" and the "dreamtime snake"
Chinese legends mention the flying dragon, which often is depicted on certain ritual clothing. They even mention the dragon eating the sun to explain the solar eclipse.
The bible mentions the snake (satan or the seven horned beast with 666 on its forehead and the prostitute).
The star constellation Draco in the northern hemisphere.
Babylonian legends mention "Tiamat" the dragon existing before Marduk and his ken came into existence. The world was dark in that time...
The legend of the 7 headed serpent in the ancient legends and statues found in Angkor Wat.
Egyptian legends mention of a chaotic sea of water full of snakes and serpents which inhabited the universe before Amun came into existence. Similar to Babylonian legends.
In many legends dragons and snakes are essentially the same thing... Maybe a dragon was really a flying snake or a cow belching fire? Or perhaps there was a cow with wings that went too close to a flame!
Another thing of interest. This is pure speculation but ive always wondered about the Caduceus symbol often found in many medical practices - it consists of two intertwined serpents twisting around sword. Overall the snakes' unusual shape and direction looks strangely familiar to the double stranded intertwined symbol of the DNA... Maybe the ancients had knowledge of DNA?
The question is not "did dragons exist and if so, what exactly were they?", it's "could dragons have existed?"
My opinions:
First, it's widely accepted that very large reptile-ish animals DID exist, which is pretty strong evidence that such things COULD exist.
Let's take something from the velociraptor family and see if we can make it a dragon:
We've already got a pretty fearsome creature--it's fast, presumably tough, and has a mouth full of nasty teeth, and a pair of disturbingly large and sharp claws on it's feet. Can we get it to breath fire? Well, we all know that biological organisms can produce various flammable substances, whether gasses such as hydrogen and methane, or liquids (oils, alcohol) or solids (fats). That's not too much of a problem in terms of possibility. We also know, thanks to the bombadier beetle, that it's possible to have an organic ignition system. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that a creature could have glands that produced a volatile liquid and other glands that would produce chemicals to ignite it at will. It would require a lot of energy to produce these substances, but it's certainly possible.
Flying is the hard part, but we have examples of very large flying animals, too, whether present-day eagles or pterosaurs of old. A proper dragon would have to be a strong flyer, not just a glider, of course, so that would mean substantial musculature and most likely a warm-blooded metabolism.
A flying, fire-breathing velociraptor (hmm, that's actually more of a wyvern, unless we give it a third pair of limbs) is definitely possible, but it would have a prodigous appetite, given the energy demands of being a predator, making fire juice, and flying around.
Did/do such things exist? Probaly not. Would it be a succesful predator? Who knows? Could it exist? Sure!
Of course, the traditional dragon is much larger than that, and that's where the problems start. Make the dragon twice as big, and it's volume and therefore weight will increase by a factor of 2^3 (8) but it's wing area will only increase by a factor of 2^2 (4). That doubles the wing loading. A dragon the size of a brontosaurus would have to have riduculously large wings, and it would look really silly. You'd have a tiny speck of dragon in the middle of a vast expanse of wing.
If you introduce magic, all bets are off, but in a real-physics world, dragons would probably have to be not much bigger than fifteen to twenty feet, snout to tail.
Even so, killing one would be an accomplishment to be proud of.
My opinions:
First, it's widely accepted that very large reptile-ish animals DID exist, which is pretty strong evidence that such things COULD exist.
Let's take something from the velociraptor family and see if we can make it a dragon:
We've already got a pretty fearsome creature--it's fast, presumably tough, and has a mouth full of nasty teeth, and a pair of disturbingly large and sharp claws on it's feet. Can we get it to breath fire? Well, we all know that biological organisms can produce various flammable substances, whether gasses such as hydrogen and methane, or liquids (oils, alcohol) or solids (fats). That's not too much of a problem in terms of possibility. We also know, thanks to the bombadier beetle, that it's possible to have an organic ignition system. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that a creature could have glands that produced a volatile liquid and other glands that would produce chemicals to ignite it at will. It would require a lot of energy to produce these substances, but it's certainly possible.
Flying is the hard part, but we have examples of very large flying animals, too, whether present-day eagles or pterosaurs of old. A proper dragon would have to be a strong flyer, not just a glider, of course, so that would mean substantial musculature and most likely a warm-blooded metabolism.
A flying, fire-breathing velociraptor (hmm, that's actually more of a wyvern, unless we give it a third pair of limbs) is definitely possible, but it would have a prodigous appetite, given the energy demands of being a predator, making fire juice, and flying around.
Did/do such things exist? Probaly not. Would it be a succesful predator? Who knows? Could it exist? Sure!
Of course, the traditional dragon is much larger than that, and that's where the problems start. Make the dragon twice as big, and it's volume and therefore weight will increase by a factor of 2^3 (8) but it's wing area will only increase by a factor of 2^2 (4). That doubles the wing loading. A dragon the size of a brontosaurus would have to have riduculously large wings, and it would look really silly. You'd have a tiny speck of dragon in the middle of a vast expanse of wing.
If you introduce magic, all bets are off, but in a real-physics world, dragons would probably have to be not much bigger than fifteen to twenty feet, snout to tail.
Even so, killing one would be an accomplishment to be proud of.
This is the reptile theory:
No one will argue with you if you say: that at one stage in the Earth's early evolution, Earth was ruled completely by REPTILES! Everybody knows that at one time, all creatures of air and land were reptilian dinosaurs. Then 'they' (scientists) say that ALL the dinosaurs died mysteriously just before a devastating meteor which caused the ICE AGE.
Other Scientists will say that certain reptiles haven't needed to evolve since the Dinosaur age and are currently much the SAME as millions of years ago. Crocodiles, frogs and most lizards have changed very little since the ice age causing speculation that SOME reptiles survived. Snakes evolved from lizards making more efficient predators, but flying lizards (pterodactyls) were obviously better suited to attack and/or escape.
These flying lizards were more intelligent, faster, more powerful (especially in flocks) and more resourceful than other creatures. Yet NONE have survived? If Crocs can survive on the ground and in water through millions of years, why couldn't large flying blood thirsty lizards that can hide in caves and mountains, survive?
The brain size of most creatures generally depends on their physical size and strength, eg: a large T-Rex needs less brain power to catch it's prey than a much smaller lizard who has to co-ordinate with other lizards to catch and outsmart it's prey. It makes perfect sense that the LARGER Dinosaurs became extinct but the smaller crawling and flying ones, managed to hide and survive. (Many snake species actually FREEZE during winter and then THAW out when summer comes back.) Reptiles also re-generate limbs and tails to make them even tougher and longer lasting than other creatures.
How could they ALL become extinct?
So WHO survived? We know crocs, snakes, frogs and lizards survived in the flesh; but what about in legend? Every continent in the world has ancestors that believed in DRAGONS! From the Vikings, Native Americans, African Dogon tribes to the Chinese, Japanese & Tibetans; dragons are more than JUST stories! They are seen as magical beings of great wisdom and power. Even the British, Welsh, and Scottish have strong ties to Dragon Lore.
How many influential family emblems, crests & flags have dragons on them? Are they ALL just based on Myth? Are they ALL based on Bullshit???
One of the oldest Human societies are the Babylonian & Sumerian civilizations. Hundreds of Thousands of clay tablets have been found claiming that the 'gods' of that time were Reptilian in nature. These gods had 'fallen' from heaven and were called Annunaki (those who from heaven to earth fell). Is it a coincidence that the origin of man is closely linked to wise and powerful dragons who lost their ability to fly?
Some people believe that the Annunaki created man! (God fearing Christians go AAHHH! God created man!) One would assume that God (the Creator) created EVERYTHING.....not just man, not just reptiles! Would it be possible for God to create man by using already more advanced creations (Annunaki) as tools or blue-prints?
Would it be more possible that some of the intelligent dragons from the Dinosaur age managed to hide in underground caves and mountains during the Ice Age or after effects of a Meteor? That after living centuries underground in the dark, their skins became much lighter (Albinism) due to lack of sun and they lost the ability to fly (due to lack of space to fly)?
Could man have started evolving from Homo-Erectus just as the reptiles came out of hiding? Would these Dragons have tried to control & enslave a far inferior species such as man? Why not? Was this the start of the Babylonian Brotherhood and its Empire?
Secret & Mysterious Organizations like the Freemasons, Illuminati and even Judaism are based on old Babylonian culture from the Book of Enoch.
The Annunaki, Seraphim and Nephilium all come from this book of Enoch which was conveniently left out of the Bible but which the Highest & Most Powerful Societies believe and follow. Could this be part of their INFAMOUS secret? Could their leaders be ancient, pale skinned, super rich & powerful wise dragon-men? Now THAT would be a secret worth hiding! And if anyone ever found out, who would believe it?
Why is the Illuminati referred to as the Babylonian & Draconian Brotherhood, if there is NO connection? The Oldest families in the world are also the wealthiest and most powerful, this is called OLD money. What could be older than Dragons who kept evolving before man was even born, and had access to all the natural resources in the Earth? (Things like gold, silver, oil and coal.) Was man manipulated into mining these minerals for the Annunaki?
Is man STILL being manipulated by seeking and mining precious materials in return for colorful pieces of paper known as Money?
Is there REALLY such a thing as ‘cold blooded’ Business men, ‘cold blooded’ lawyers and ‘cold blooded’ politicians?
No one will argue with you if you say: that at one stage in the Earth's early evolution, Earth was ruled completely by REPTILES! Everybody knows that at one time, all creatures of air and land were reptilian dinosaurs. Then 'they' (scientists) say that ALL the dinosaurs died mysteriously just before a devastating meteor which caused the ICE AGE.
Other Scientists will say that certain reptiles haven't needed to evolve since the Dinosaur age and are currently much the SAME as millions of years ago. Crocodiles, frogs and most lizards have changed very little since the ice age causing speculation that SOME reptiles survived. Snakes evolved from lizards making more efficient predators, but flying lizards (pterodactyls) were obviously better suited to attack and/or escape.
These flying lizards were more intelligent, faster, more powerful (especially in flocks) and more resourceful than other creatures. Yet NONE have survived? If Crocs can survive on the ground and in water through millions of years, why couldn't large flying blood thirsty lizards that can hide in caves and mountains, survive?
The brain size of most creatures generally depends on their physical size and strength, eg: a large T-Rex needs less brain power to catch it's prey than a much smaller lizard who has to co-ordinate with other lizards to catch and outsmart it's prey. It makes perfect sense that the LARGER Dinosaurs became extinct but the smaller crawling and flying ones, managed to hide and survive. (Many snake species actually FREEZE during winter and then THAW out when summer comes back.) Reptiles also re-generate limbs and tails to make them even tougher and longer lasting than other creatures.
How could they ALL become extinct?
So WHO survived? We know crocs, snakes, frogs and lizards survived in the flesh; but what about in legend? Every continent in the world has ancestors that believed in DRAGONS! From the Vikings, Native Americans, African Dogon tribes to the Chinese, Japanese & Tibetans; dragons are more than JUST stories! They are seen as magical beings of great wisdom and power. Even the British, Welsh, and Scottish have strong ties to Dragon Lore.
How many influential family emblems, crests & flags have dragons on them? Are they ALL just based on Myth? Are they ALL based on Bullshit???
One of the oldest Human societies are the Babylonian & Sumerian civilizations. Hundreds of Thousands of clay tablets have been found claiming that the 'gods' of that time were Reptilian in nature. These gods had 'fallen' from heaven and were called Annunaki (those who from heaven to earth fell). Is it a coincidence that the origin of man is closely linked to wise and powerful dragons who lost their ability to fly?
Some people believe that the Annunaki created man! (God fearing Christians go AAHHH! God created man!) One would assume that God (the Creator) created EVERYTHING.....not just man, not just reptiles! Would it be possible for God to create man by using already more advanced creations (Annunaki) as tools or blue-prints?
Would it be more possible that some of the intelligent dragons from the Dinosaur age managed to hide in underground caves and mountains during the Ice Age or after effects of a Meteor? That after living centuries underground in the dark, their skins became much lighter (Albinism) due to lack of sun and they lost the ability to fly (due to lack of space to fly)?
Could man have started evolving from Homo-Erectus just as the reptiles came out of hiding? Would these Dragons have tried to control & enslave a far inferior species such as man? Why not? Was this the start of the Babylonian Brotherhood and its Empire?
Secret & Mysterious Organizations like the Freemasons, Illuminati and even Judaism are based on old Babylonian culture from the Book of Enoch.
The Annunaki, Seraphim and Nephilium all come from this book of Enoch which was conveniently left out of the Bible but which the Highest & Most Powerful Societies believe and follow. Could this be part of their INFAMOUS secret? Could their leaders be ancient, pale skinned, super rich & powerful wise dragon-men? Now THAT would be a secret worth hiding! And if anyone ever found out, who would believe it?
Why is the Illuminati referred to as the Babylonian & Draconian Brotherhood, if there is NO connection? The Oldest families in the world are also the wealthiest and most powerful, this is called OLD money. What could be older than Dragons who kept evolving before man was even born, and had access to all the natural resources in the Earth? (Things like gold, silver, oil and coal.) Was man manipulated into mining these minerals for the Annunaki?
Is man STILL being manipulated by seeking and mining precious materials in return for colorful pieces of paper known as Money?
Is there REALLY such a thing as ‘cold blooded’ Business men, ‘cold blooded’ lawyers and ‘cold blooded’ politicians?
QUOTE (thezman+May 15 2005, 06:53 PM)
Hi dragonkid,
There are two or more possible sources for the dragon legends.
1) They were some type of natural dinosaur-like creature
2) They were extraterrestrials
3) They were the flying craft of extraterrestrials or of a previous earth civilization
z
The first option may be closer to the truth. Archaeologists excavating some Greek ruins discovered fossils obviously collected by the inhabitants of the area. Of these, there were several Protoceratops which resemble the mythical Griffin because of a beaked mouth. Could these have been the source of the Griffin legends?
Unfortunately, the fossil remains were not kept, as the Archaeologists thought they were anomalous. I guess this can be forgiven because they were not paleontologists.
There are two or more possible sources for the dragon legends.
1) They were some type of natural dinosaur-like creature
2) They were extraterrestrials
3) They were the flying craft of extraterrestrials or of a previous earth civilization
z
The first option may be closer to the truth. Archaeologists excavating some Greek ruins discovered fossils obviously collected by the inhabitants of the area. Of these, there were several Protoceratops which resemble the mythical Griffin because of a beaked mouth. Could these have been the source of the Griffin legends?
Unfortunately, the fossil remains were not kept, as the Archaeologists thought they were anomalous. I guess this can be forgiven because they were not paleontologists.
If dragons were real then they could have just been another kind of dinosaur. But where did the fossils go??? They could have incinerated when they died like a mystical pheonix or people could have destroyed them bc of fear. that is all
Last month Nation Geographic had an article about sea monsters. There is a fossil record to show that they did exist. They also point out that many of the ancient drawings of sea monsters almost exactly fit the fossil record.
If large reptiles survived until humans spread accost the Earth why are they extinct now? All of the stories about dragons are about killing dragons. I think that dragons and other monsters (ie extremely large extinct mammals from the last ice age) have a special place in our psyche because this is what we had to deal with when the human species came of age. Back then would could not explain the world, so it was all magic. I think this is all part of our heritage, it is ingrained into our DNA. Why else would it be pleasurable to be scared of monsters?
If large reptiles survived until humans spread accost the Earth why are they extinct now? All of the stories about dragons are about killing dragons. I think that dragons and other monsters (ie extremely large extinct mammals from the last ice age) have a special place in our psyche because this is what we had to deal with when the human species came of age. Back then would could not explain the world, so it was all magic. I think this is all part of our heritage, it is ingrained into our DNA. Why else would it be pleasurable to be scared of monsters?
alright i dont believe dragons existed but lately scientists believe that dinosaurs evolved into birds... meaning that they can fly. so if these dinosaurs can fly then why couldnt they be dragons. i think if they did exist then there is no way that they could have existed all the way to the time of man.
In Spirit, Dragons still exist.
Defender Dragons of The Spirit by Riven
OH Great art thou Dragon!,
Defender of Eternal Life!
With reign from our Master!,
doest Spirit Fire Shield Souls
and end all thine Strife.
Hold fast thee reign of light,
To Shield my cherished Son this night.
Repel thee away defiled Satiman
and take poor Judas' Heart of Brine,
to feed upon insatiable Sekhmet
thine Evilress dark as Coal,
alas the Giant Satiman curses afoul
ne'er was for thine to devour
this Sacred Child's Chalice of Souls.
Twas pure the ascension,
revealed in eternal time.
This heart of heaviness
to carry this Son of Mine.
Oh what hath thou done
on this glorious Earth below?
Alas it is a Shadow of The Sun.
Creator Dragons of Spirit by Riven.
Great is the Creator Dragon!,
So full of eternal bliss!,
to follow the hands of time,
nary an Atom to dismiss.
Round and Round ye go
kindling the Cosmic Fire,
like a Swan upon her Egg,
nursing,in love and desire.
Gleefully rides the Wizard of Eternity,
replenishing stars with wands of red,
guiding the Great Dragon's Flight,
a mere touch upon her head.
Beautiful is her sullen eyes,
for the Children she seeds.
For Sun's and Clouds to lay upon,
in the dark of coolest breeze.
What wisdom so rare upon this place,
a dance of love, passion and embrace.
Energy so pure, divine and empathy,
The cry of her newborn infant Galaxy.
[R]..Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis..[R]
SaJaRa- Son of God is King
http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/The%20Garden%...0in%20Avila.htm
Defender Dragons of The Spirit by Riven
OH Great art thou Dragon!,
Defender of Eternal Life!
With reign from our Master!,
doest Spirit Fire Shield Souls
and end all thine Strife.
Hold fast thee reign of light,
To Shield my cherished Son this night.
Repel thee away defiled Satiman
and take poor Judas' Heart of Brine,
to feed upon insatiable Sekhmet
thine Evilress dark as Coal,
alas the Giant Satiman curses afoul
ne'er was for thine to devour
this Sacred Child's Chalice of Souls.
Twas pure the ascension,
revealed in eternal time.
This heart of heaviness
to carry this Son of Mine.
Oh what hath thou done
on this glorious Earth below?
Alas it is a Shadow of The Sun.
Creator Dragons of Spirit by Riven.
Great is the Creator Dragon!,
So full of eternal bliss!,
to follow the hands of time,
nary an Atom to dismiss.
Round and Round ye go
kindling the Cosmic Fire,
like a Swan upon her Egg,
nursing,in love and desire.
Gleefully rides the Wizard of Eternity,
replenishing stars with wands of red,
guiding the Great Dragon's Flight,
a mere touch upon her head.
Beautiful is her sullen eyes,
for the Children she seeds.
For Sun's and Clouds to lay upon,
in the dark of coolest breeze.
What wisdom so rare upon this place,
a dance of love, passion and embrace.
Energy so pure, divine and empathy,
The cry of her newborn infant Galaxy.
[R]..Riven The Seer and Royal Bloodline to Atlantis..[R]
SaJaRa- Son of God is King
http://www.mts.net/~goldlion/The%20Garden%...0in%20Avila.htm
ok so heres the thing dragiins, vampiers, elfs, and so on where real with all the reascherch nowif the things like vampiers and elfs and so on once walked this earth thene dont you think that some people have there blood which that would make them part of it... trust me i know
trust me i know this... i have seen it
Real fire breathing dragons?
Personally, I believe that our fairly recent "discovery" that the Coelacanth, certain lizards of lore, and now cool little mammals of historical tales all have been found to still exist (albeit in desperately small numbers), not to mention the HUNDREDS of hitherto unknown species- including some large primates in Asia that have flipped out paleontologists--- obviates the understanding that dragons sure as heck existed in our world, Komodoes as but one primary example of these animals.
To think that legendary tales of wondrous critters were pure fabrication is to deny our planet's diversity of life forms, IMHO. I, for one, do think that trapped plesiosaurs in many northern deep lakes probably did hang on after the last Ice Age, accounting for the tales of Nessie, and the beasts in Lake Chiattaqua, numerous lakes in northern climes in Canada, Russia, et al. Whether they had breeding numbers beyond decades ago is most clearly problematic, however, it is indisputable that for several centuries these sorts of anomalous aquatic critters were sited, and morever, were thr "sea serpents" of common knowledge.
We do now have, for the first time ever=== meaning in the past two decades, crucially,==== physical corpse-evidence of the legendary Giant Squids, of which horrors sailors bespoke for millenia, as monsters of the deep seas that defied belief. THEY BE DAMN REAL. As are many other newly documented truly spooky looking folks from thr bottom of the depths.
Truth be told. most scientists today admit we still know less about what's in our oceans than we 'can intuit" about what is out there in our immediate galatic environs......DRAGONS???? i believe it!!!! Are thry still around, as in the historical record of just hundreds of years ago? Less than doubtful--- but neither is the Dodo or the Mastedon, and yet they brushed with Man also.
What about the Beowolf, while we.re at it, LOL? OOOOOPS! Werewolf! And let's leave the rest alone, shall we?
To think that legendary tales of wondrous critters were pure fabrication is to deny our planet's diversity of life forms, IMHO. I, for one, do think that trapped plesiosaurs in many northern deep lakes probably did hang on after the last Ice Age, accounting for the tales of Nessie, and the beasts in Lake Chiattaqua, numerous lakes in northern climes in Canada, Russia, et al. Whether they had breeding numbers beyond decades ago is most clearly problematic, however, it is indisputable that for several centuries these sorts of anomalous aquatic critters were sited, and morever, were thr "sea serpents" of common knowledge.
We do now have, for the first time ever=== meaning in the past two decades, crucially,==== physical corpse-evidence of the legendary Giant Squids, of which horrors sailors bespoke for millenia, as monsters of the deep seas that defied belief. THEY BE DAMN REAL. As are many other newly documented truly spooky looking folks from thr bottom of the depths.
Truth be told. most scientists today admit we still know less about what's in our oceans than we 'can intuit" about what is out there in our immediate galatic environs......DRAGONS???? i believe it!!!! Are thry still around, as in the historical record of just hundreds of years ago? Less than doubtful--- but neither is the Dodo or the Mastedon, and yet they brushed with Man also.
What about the Beowolf, while we.re at it, LOL? OOOOOPS! Werewolf! And let's leave the rest alone, shall we?
If you think about the evolutionary chains the snake evolved to lizard, lizard evolved to bigger lizard, bigger lizard evolved to dragon, dragon evolved to gryphon, gryphon evolved to either a bird or lion. The lockness monster could have been a dragon that was frozen underwater and then revived when the water melted. A dragon could have been a prehistoric oar fish and the lockness monster could have been a chain in between the dragon and the oar fish just as the caveman and human missing link.
I believe that Dragons are really just an ancient word for dinosaur. we didn't even have the word dinosaur until about 200 years ago when archaeologists uncovered a giant skeleton. If you look at artwork of dragons depicted on cave walls, ancient jars, the Ica stones, and various other ancient drawings from around the world. It all looks like dinosaurs. As far as the fire breathing kind go. I don't see why there couldn't have been. There are some amazing animals on our planet. Animals that create deadly electrical currents. Fish that create their own light under water. Animals that can spit venom. So why not Fire? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out at least one or two ways it could be possible. I myself am a creationist. And as far as I am concerned their is just way to much evidence to prove it. Their is some great info on Dragons at www.nwcreation.net/dinolinks.html. Don't believe me? Check it out it's based solely on facts.
Hi,
Cattle produce acetone in their guts.....they're big creatures...It's not incomprehensible that evolution might take advantage of this stuff and create an ignition 'organ' located in the mouth of these mythical creatures...Although that would make the dragons herbivores
Cattle produce acetone in their guts.....they're big creatures...It's not incomprehensible that evolution might take advantage of this stuff and create an ignition 'organ' located in the mouth of these mythical creatures...Although that would make the dragons herbivores
Hi Dragonkid. Like many legends, the dragon probably had it's basis in the Bible.
From the Greek dra′kon, depicting a terrifying monster, a serpentlike devourer. It occurs 13 times in the Bible but only in the highly symbolic book of Revelation, and it represents Satan the Devil. He is the “great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,” having a tail that draws “a third of the stars of heaven” after him, these first being induced to materialize as humans before the Flood and then becoming demons. (Re 12:3, 4; Jude 6) Together with these demons, Satan the Dragon is cast out of heaven down to the vicinity of the earth. “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan.” (Re 12:7-9)
Since angels are said to have "wings", he would be a flying dragon also. Breathing fire sounds like a combination of "devourer" and "fiery-colored".
The symbolic "lake that burns with fire and sulphur" of Revelation, picturing destruction, was corrupted to mean hellfire, where the devil resides. Thus he may even breathe fire. Hellfire of course is only a false religious doctrine which maligns God.
From the Greek dra′kon, depicting a terrifying monster, a serpentlike devourer. It occurs 13 times in the Bible but only in the highly symbolic book of Revelation, and it represents Satan the Devil. He is the “great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,” having a tail that draws “a third of the stars of heaven” after him, these first being induced to materialize as humans before the Flood and then becoming demons. (Re 12:3, 4; Jude 6) Together with these demons, Satan the Dragon is cast out of heaven down to the vicinity of the earth. “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan.” (Re 12:7-9)
Since angels are said to have "wings", he would be a flying dragon also. Breathing fire sounds like a combination of "devourer" and "fiery-colored".
The symbolic "lake that burns with fire and sulphur" of Revelation, picturing destruction, was corrupted to mean hellfire, where the devil resides. Thus he may even breathe fire. Hellfire of course is only a false religious doctrine which maligns God.
QUOTE
What about the Beowolf, while we.re at it, LOL? OOOOOPS! Werewolf! And let's leave the rest alone, shall we?
All mythical creatures have some basis in fact, I believe. Though the details are often fanciful and exagerrated for sensationalism. Mermaids for example.
There are many tales, in European countries especially, of priests threatening to turn people into animals if they can't pay their church "bills". As ludicrous and heinous as this sounds, they actually do it. A person is cursed by the priest, and thereafter they believe they are turned into an animal. They start displaying animalistic characteristics, and even their body features change. Is it all psychological? Is it a form of madness? Is it the power of God at work?
It is coming under demonic control. In the old days demon possession was widely recognized for what it is. These days there is a greater emphasis on influencing, as possession cannot occur without a person's acceptance or vacation of mind. - Seances, yoga, hypnotism, speaking in tongues, drugs, and sometimes mental conditions.
I believe that werewolf transformation etc are manifestations of the aforementioned phenomena which achieved two objectives. One, demons allowed themselves to be used in that manner in order to satisfy their perverse pleasures, and two, to deceitfully help validate the false priest as being God's representative.
This apparently still goes on today, and people believe it and are terrified into paying off the priests' extortion money.
The word "dragon" is mentioned 19 times in the bible, a really true book that also has giants, cockatrices, sea serpents, unicorns, etc.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...041936-253.html
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...041936-253.html
PhilP. The ancients, and Jesus thought that people were possessed by demons when they were sick. We now know about viruses and bacteria and that they were wrong. A brain scanner could now tell if someone were under mental possession by a demon.
Kaneda,
Not true. The Bible does differentiate. It dictates which were demon possessions and which where sicknesses/ailments.
And no, a scanner would not pick up a "demon"... Demons are not part of these universe. They appeared to have exist before the universe did, meaning they are not constrained by physical existence like we are. Therefore you cannot conclude that they must be detectable by a scanner.
Not true. The Bible does differentiate. It dictates which were demon possessions and which where sicknesses/ailments.
And no, a scanner would not pick up a "demon"... Demons are not part of these universe. They appeared to have exist before the universe did, meaning they are not constrained by physical existence like we are. Therefore you cannot conclude that they must be detectable by a scanner.
dragons could have been bones of dinosaurs that humans could not believe at the time so they made it up and the fire what we fear the most
Dragons are legends. Legends assimilate stories into themselves, such that "dragons" aren't singular things, but the composite image created by the stories that become associated with "dragon."
And while "dragons" are common amongst many cultures, when scrutinized, they are very different from one another, so their seemingly wide distribution across disparate cultures are offset by their equally disparate natures.
However, there may be some common sources for the different dragons' respective legends.
First may be an inherent fear/fascination with snakes from our earliest tree dwelling ancestors to whom snakes were a constant threat.
Second would likely be dinosaur and other fossils. The remains of often huge, intimidating, chimeric beasts.
Third, at least for Europe, may have been stories from afar and from distant past of large reptiles and birds.
If the stories of actual unknown and remarkable creatures have been also integrated into the legends of dragons or any beasties, they are hard to tease from the legends themselves. An interesting study tho.
And while "dragons" are common amongst many cultures, when scrutinized, they are very different from one another, so their seemingly wide distribution across disparate cultures are offset by their equally disparate natures.
However, there may be some common sources for the different dragons' respective legends.
First may be an inherent fear/fascination with snakes from our earliest tree dwelling ancestors to whom snakes were a constant threat.
Second would likely be dinosaur and other fossils. The remains of often huge, intimidating, chimeric beasts.
Third, at least for Europe, may have been stories from afar and from distant past of large reptiles and birds.
If the stories of actual unknown and remarkable creatures have been also integrated into the legends of dragons or any beasties, they are hard to tease from the legends themselves. An interesting study tho.
I think dragons are real. Almost everywhere is discovered in the world. The only place that hasn't been discovered yet is the Amazon and that's quickly being discovered now. The only place that dragons can probably exist now is under the sea. Deep, deep down they're is probably dragons living. But soon they'll be discovered and they won't be able to live the rest of their lives peacefully. They'll go through experiments and other things. Maybe not though. They may never be found.
http://hometown.aol.com/aliyat/Ideas.html#dragons
I have a pet theory that the mythological "dragons" may actually have been descendents of the mosasaur, essentially a crocodile adapted to living in the open ocean.
IMO: The "fire-breathing" accounts are garbled descriptions of the *sounds* that the threatened crocs made, similar to the throaty hiss that modern crocs make (which includes pops and snaps caused by phlegm in the throat, and sounds a bit like fire).
The *flying* aspect is an extrapolation of the fact that the mosasaur had sickle-shaped fins similar to those of sea turtles which could have been mistaken to be wings (If _wings_, then _flies_).
I believe them to be extinct today, as a consequence of an increase in human coastal population and our human instinct to slay things we think to be dragons. (Note: Most of the stories involve slaying them with swords. Imagine trying to kill a 25' crocodile without one. These stories come from early iron-age myths...)
I have a pet theory that the mythological "dragons" may actually have been descendents of the mosasaur, essentially a crocodile adapted to living in the open ocean.
IMO: The "fire-breathing" accounts are garbled descriptions of the *sounds* that the threatened crocs made, similar to the throaty hiss that modern crocs make (which includes pops and snaps caused by phlegm in the throat, and sounds a bit like fire).
The *flying* aspect is an extrapolation of the fact that the mosasaur had sickle-shaped fins similar to those of sea turtles which could have been mistaken to be wings (If _wings_, then _flies_).
I believe them to be extinct today, as a consequence of an increase in human coastal population and our human instinct to slay things we think to be dragons. (Note: Most of the stories involve slaying them with swords. Imagine trying to kill a 25' crocodile without one. These stories come from early iron-age myths...)
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