To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Why Universe Wide Is So Wide?
PhysOrgForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > Nanotechnology & Quantum Physics > Quantum physics

DavidD
I found that observable Universe wide is about 70 bilions light-years. And age of universe is about 14 bilions years. So universe broadening faster than speed of light, what is realy very strange. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_un...#Misconceptions

Maybe somthing wrong with Hable constant or redshift is not redshift, but light emision from colder stars? Or maybe redshift is becouse some glaxis or stars rotating near to speed of light and maybe that's becouse is redshift?
Or maybe Universe became not from big bang?

Nearsest galactic quazar is 1.5 bilions light years, then it's means or after big bang this galactic fly with speed of light 1.5 bilions years or that this glactic always flying with about 1/20 speed of light or 5*10^6 m/s. Or that our galactic also flying 2500 km/s.
Maybe galactix are much more nearly than we thinking? And redshift don't exist? Becouse I can't believe, that galactix flying faster than speed of light. blink.gif

Or maybe universe age is hundeds times older?

from wiki: "Another cause of redshift is the expansion of the universe, which explains the observation that the redshifts of distant galaxies, quasars, and intergalactic gas clouds increase in proportion to their distance from the earth."
Maybe galaxies, which are more far is colder, or maybe light, which going from farthers stars is better absorbed by dust in "blue range" of wavelenght.

"Gravitational redshift is observed if the receiver is located at higher gravitational potential than the source. The cause of gravitational redshift is the time dilation that occurs near massive objects, according to general relativity"
Maybe gravitational redshift occure, when light or electromagnetic waves flying nearly another very massive stars or galactics and they lose they energy, becouse gravitation of galactics taking it and for this reason occuring redshift.
DavidD
Maybe after big bang everything was moving more times faster than light and that's becouse galaxis are so far from us. And redshift maybe is becouse photon moving very long distance slowly loosing his energy and wave becoming longer and longer. And if so that, maybe even universe exist not 14 bilions years but maybe 14 trilions years.
SirShanson
Re-read your own link the explanation is there, you've misinterpreted or simply failed to understand.
DavidD
I read that space becoming wider if you are very far. It ls absurdical to me. So maybe photon just loosing his energy flying through space and becouse scientist measuring redshift? And then maybe universe age is thousands milions times older?
DavidD
"The Finger of God effect is one result of this phenomenon discovered in 1938 by Benjamin Kenneally. In systems that are gravitationally bound, such as galaxies or our planetary system, the expansion of space is (more than) annihilated by the attractive force of gravity."

"Any two points which are moving away from the origin, each along straight lines and with speed proportional to distance from the origin, will be moving away from each other with a speed proportional to their distance apart."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble's_law

I don't understand where is evidence that universe realy expanding about 3-6 times faster than speed of light? Maybe it was slowly expanding trilions-quadrilions years?
El_Machinae
QUOTE (DavidD+Oct 28 2007, 05:40 AM)
I read that space becoming wider if you are very far. It ls absurdical to me. So maybe photon just loosing his energy flying through space and becouse scientist measuring redshift? And then maybe universe age is thousands milions times older?

I agree that it's tough to understand. You have to remember that light moves at a velocity, and the universe expands according to a distance-related acceleration.

Analogies work best:

If you have a small balloon and draw three dots in a line - equally spaced - then it would take light 2x longer to get from the 'far' dot to the close dot than it would to get from the 'middle' dot to the close dot.

O ... O ... O

However, if you're to blow up the balloon, then the further dot goes away faster than the middle dot. So, after 5 puffs, you have something like this.

O ... ... ... O ... ... ... O

The 'middle' dot has tripled in distance, but the 'far' dot has gone 6x the distance away.

This is a really rough analogy with our universe. FAR away points are going faster away from us than close points. REALLY FAR away points might be going away faster than the speed of light

But don't give up on trying to figure it out!
DavidD
But this baloons nothing explains, becouse to last ballon must smaller distance move.
Say initialy all ablons is closly each over:
OOO
Then you puff one time. Then ballons move:
O ... OO.
If you puff one more time then ballons move:
O ... ... OO.
You perhaps want to say that ballons expanding somehow... But why no just to do concept that universe is much older and was expanding trilions years? Redshift maybe occure from over reasons, than from 6X speed of light expanding. Until no strong evidence about our Universe age I don't believe that our universe expanding faster than speed of light. Age of universe I think also estimated by this expansion so nothing real about our universe age exist.
Sapo
QUOTE (DavidD+Nov 3 2007, 12:49 PM)
But this baloons nothing explains, becouse to last ballon must smaller distance move.
Say initialy all ablons is closly each over:
OOO
Then you puff one time. Then ballons move:
O ... OO.
If you puff one more time then ballons move:
O ... ... OO.
You perhaps want to say that ballons expanding somehow... But why no just to do concept that universe is much older and was expanding trilions years? Redshift maybe occure from over reasons, than from 6X speed of light expanding. Until no strong evidence about our Universe age I don't believe that our universe expanding faster than speed of light. Age of universe I think also estimated by this expansion so nothing real about our universe age exist.

user posted image What are you puffing?
DavidD
QUOTE (Sapo+Nov 3 2007, 06:32 PM)
user posted image What are you puffing?

Your proofs about faster than light expanding
yor_on
As far as i know the size of the universe are not connected to the mass even if the mass may 'shape' it. What we see as age are our estimate of the most distant 'light'sources in the universe that we can find. As the 'big bang' 'crunch' whatever postulates that the universe expanded faster than light those first moments we can't with any accuracy define it's actual size. What we can do is to use those clues 'light' gives us to guess at the age of our known universe and maybe from our estimates of total mass however insecure that might be guess at the 'expansion' of our spacetime. That's how i see it.
DavidD
Maybe universe was expanding faster than light few nanoseconds after big bang and then trilions times slowdonw and not now expanding faster than light?
And photons maybe changing they wavelength after they travel very far distance?
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.