Just a simple question,
In which direction does the Earth spin?
S.
If you're talking about the spin along the equator, then we can figure it out by knowing that the Sun appears to rise in the East. So if the Sun appears low in the East and we're rotated toward it so that it later appears overhead, then I'll let you figure out which way that rotation would be.
Is there such a thing as 'East', in Space?
Surely, if we observe the Earth from Space, we can look from an equatorial perspective, and call one direction 'East', and the other 'West', but we only need to turn our bodies upside down (through 180 degrees), and the whole thing is reversed. The Earth appears to us as though it has changed 'direction', even though it is obviously spinning the same 'way' as it was before we 'moved'.
(Try the experiment with a ball on a piece of string, or turn a pebble in your hands. View from below, and then above, whilst twisting the 'sphere' in the same 'direction'. - Does it turn 'clockwise' or 'anti-clockwise'? It turns in both 'directions' at the same time, depending on our perspective. 'Direction' becomes a Human 'judgement', or an act of relativity.)
My suggestion is that there are an infinite number of perspectives (relativity) in which we can observe the same (One) thing.
We could even relate this finding to our conceptions of religion, where the many 'names' of 'God', all describe the same 'thing'.
Here is a way that science and religion can unify their thoughts.
S.
Surely, if we observe the Earth from Space, we can look from an equatorial perspective, and call one direction 'East', and the other 'West', but we only need to turn our bodies upside down (through 180 degrees), and the whole thing is reversed. The Earth appears to us as though it has changed 'direction', even though it is obviously spinning the same 'way' as it was before we 'moved'.
(Try the experiment with a ball on a piece of string, or turn a pebble in your hands. View from below, and then above, whilst twisting the 'sphere' in the same 'direction'. - Does it turn 'clockwise' or 'anti-clockwise'? It turns in both 'directions' at the same time, depending on our perspective. 'Direction' becomes a Human 'judgement', or an act of relativity.)
My suggestion is that there are an infinite number of perspectives (relativity) in which we can observe the same (One) thing.
We could even relate this finding to our conceptions of religion, where the many 'names' of 'God', all describe the same 'thing'.
Here is a way that science and religion can unify their thoughts.
S.
Or perhaps science and religion don't want to understand 'each other', they both have huge egos which are more important to them than any 'truth'?
Intrasolar space is the space within our solar system.
An intERnational flight goes between two countries. An intRAnational flight is one that stays within your country
I edited the question to make sense.
An intERnational flight goes between two countries. An intRAnational flight is one that stays within your country
QUOTE
Anyway, which way does the Earth revolve around the sun (if you were looking down from the Northern plane)?
I edited the question to make sense.
Revolution is revolution. All perspectives are valid.
You kind of answered your own question. All of our data is speculation of something through a certain number of perspectives. Your question is based solely on the observers point. Are you on earth? Are you in space? If you are in space you must keep your point of observation the same to get an accurate reading. For if the earth is spinning, and so are you, not much can be told. unless of course you do make certain directions in space, and relate the earth to the sun or some other reference point.
The only true perspectives are those outside of human judgement
QUOTE
In which direction does the Earth spin?
What is the point of the question, particularly asked in such an obtuse manner?
Physfan
QUOTE (Knot of this world+Mar 9 2006, 03:07 PM)
Is there such a thing as 'East', in Space?
Surely, if we observe the Earth from Space, we can look from an equatorial perspective, and call one direction 'East', and the other 'West', but we only need to turn our bodies upside down (through 180 degrees), and the whole thing is reversed. The Earth appears to us as though it has changed 'direction', even though it is obviously spinning the same 'way' as it was before we 'moved'.
(Try the experiment with a ball on a piece of string, or turn a pebble in your hands. View from below, and then above, whilst twisting the 'sphere' in the same 'direction'. - Does it turn 'clockwise' or 'anti-clockwise'? It turns in both 'directions' at the same time, depending on our perspective. 'Direction' becomes a Human 'judgement', or an act of relativity.)
My suggestion is that there are an infinite number of perspectives (relativity) in which we can observe the same (One) thing.
We could even relate this finding to our conceptions of religion, where the many 'names' of 'God', all describe the same 'thing'.
Here is a way that science and religion can unify their thoughts.
S.
This is called "frame of reference"
If your frame of reference is where you happen to be standing then it is possible to describe the motion of all other objects as if they move and you remain motionless. In that case the Earth isn't rotating at all but this makes the mathmatical description of what other objects are doing very complicated indeed. Therefore we require man made conventions. Our convention is that the axis of rotation closest to the magnetic pole we call 'north' is the north geographic pole, we define from that our south, east and west. We head east as the world spins whether you are in Chicago,USA or Perth, Australia.
If you are hanging about in intra solar space you will have to define your co-ordinates again such that you can make sense in your descriptions of the motion of objects. If you are hanging about in intersteller space you might require another and in intergallactic space another. Being humans we tend to define all of these with the Earth figuring prominently in the definition of the co-ordinates being used.
Diagrams of the solar system all show the planets in such a way as to put what we refer to as 'north' on this planet towards the top of the page, same goes for diagrams of the galaxy and descriptions of distant objects such as other galaxies are always given in distances "from Earth".
Surely, if we observe the Earth from Space, we can look from an equatorial perspective, and call one direction 'East', and the other 'West', but we only need to turn our bodies upside down (through 180 degrees), and the whole thing is reversed. The Earth appears to us as though it has changed 'direction', even though it is obviously spinning the same 'way' as it was before we 'moved'.
(Try the experiment with a ball on a piece of string, or turn a pebble in your hands. View from below, and then above, whilst twisting the 'sphere' in the same 'direction'. - Does it turn 'clockwise' or 'anti-clockwise'? It turns in both 'directions' at the same time, depending on our perspective. 'Direction' becomes a Human 'judgement', or an act of relativity.)
My suggestion is that there are an infinite number of perspectives (relativity) in which we can observe the same (One) thing.
We could even relate this finding to our conceptions of religion, where the many 'names' of 'God', all describe the same 'thing'.
Here is a way that science and religion can unify their thoughts.
S.
This is called "frame of reference"
If your frame of reference is where you happen to be standing then it is possible to describe the motion of all other objects as if they move and you remain motionless. In that case the Earth isn't rotating at all but this makes the mathmatical description of what other objects are doing very complicated indeed. Therefore we require man made conventions. Our convention is that the axis of rotation closest to the magnetic pole we call 'north' is the north geographic pole, we define from that our south, east and west. We head east as the world spins whether you are in Chicago,USA or Perth, Australia.
If you are hanging about in intra solar space you will have to define your co-ordinates again such that you can make sense in your descriptions of the motion of objects. If you are hanging about in intersteller space you might require another and in intergallactic space another. Being humans we tend to define all of these with the Earth figuring prominently in the definition of the co-ordinates being used.
Diagrams of the solar system all show the planets in such a way as to put what we refer to as 'north' on this planet towards the top of the page, same goes for diagrams of the galaxy and descriptions of distant objects such as other galaxies are always given in distances "from Earth".
What is intra solar space?
Intrasolar space is the space within our solar system.
An intERnational flight goes between two countries. An intRAnational flight is one that stays within your country
QUOTE
Anyway, which way does the Earth revolve around the sun (if you were looking down from the Northern plane)?
I edited the question to make sense. I also accidentaly edited my post up there, instead of quoting it. Ah well, it still works.
An intERnational flight goes between two countries. An intRAnational flight is one that stays within your country
QUOTE
Anyway, which way does the Earth revolve around the sun (if you were looking down from the Northern plane)?
I edited the question to make sense. I also accidentaly edited my post up there, instead of quoting it. Ah well, it still works.
Hi all,
It was intended more to be a philosophical question, rather than one of just science, in order to prove that Humans usually feel the need to impose their own perspective on things beyond the 'Human'.
We both stand ON the Earth, and also hang OFF of the Earth, by our feet, depending on perspective. Yet, how many would consider themselves to be constantly hanging by their feet? This is not the perspective we are accustomed to, yet it remains relevant, because in the real physical world, there is not one, true perspective.
Equally, in the real, physical phenomena we call 'Space', perspectives become Infinite, necessarily, because that is what they are!
THE ALL IMPORTANT METAPHOR
In this way, we are able to see how our own, personal, perspectives on other things, such as religion, or any other disagreeable 'opinions', are clouded by a singular belief pattern, of which we are barely conscious (as a species) - (please don't take it personally, anyone. Multiple perspectives help us see ALL points of view!
)
If we want to try and describe the 'Big picture', surely we need to be able to see as much of it as possible?
Thank you all for your comments,
S.
It was intended more to be a philosophical question, rather than one of just science, in order to prove that Humans usually feel the need to impose their own perspective on things beyond the 'Human'.
We both stand ON the Earth, and also hang OFF of the Earth, by our feet, depending on perspective. Yet, how many would consider themselves to be constantly hanging by their feet? This is not the perspective we are accustomed to, yet it remains relevant, because in the real physical world, there is not one, true perspective.
Equally, in the real, physical phenomena we call 'Space', perspectives become Infinite, necessarily, because that is what they are!
THE ALL IMPORTANT METAPHOR
In this way, we are able to see how our own, personal, perspectives on other things, such as religion, or any other disagreeable 'opinions', are clouded by a singular belief pattern, of which we are barely conscious (as a species) - (please don't take it personally, anyone. Multiple perspectives help us see ALL points of view!
)If we want to try and describe the 'Big picture', surely we need to be able to see as much of it as possible?
Thank you all for your comments,
S.
if one designates a certain direction (such as east) then the direction in which the earth spins can be described otherwise it would have no meaning
while this may seem to make the way the earth spins relative it really only shows that humans like to take a certain (often privilaged) point-of-view, however, this does not mean that the earth does not spin in a certain fixed direction (in general)
"standing on the earth" and "hanging off the earth" are different only in their connotations, a more precise (though cumbersome and therefore seldom used) expression would be that we are gravitationally bound to the surface of the earth (if one is simply standing and not moving with respect to the ground)
i prefer to say i am standing on the earth rather than hanging off it because hanging off it gives the connotation that i am dangling and free to move rather than having my whole body pulled by the force of gravity towards the center of the earth
while this may seem to make the way the earth spins relative it really only shows that humans like to take a certain (often privilaged) point-of-view, however, this does not mean that the earth does not spin in a certain fixed direction (in general)
"standing on the earth" and "hanging off the earth" are different only in their connotations, a more precise (though cumbersome and therefore seldom used) expression would be that we are gravitationally bound to the surface of the earth (if one is simply standing and not moving with respect to the ground)
i prefer to say i am standing on the earth rather than hanging off it because hanging off it gives the connotation that i am dangling and free to move rather than having my whole body pulled by the force of gravity towards the center of the earth
Hi!
" ...if one designates a certain direction (such as east) then the direction in which the earth spins can be described otherwise it would have no meaning"
- I agree! It is us (Humans) that need to 'give meaning' to each other, to necessarily describe what we perceive. This does not make it a Natural phenomena of Space. WE exchange words. 'Space' doesn't need to explain itself to us!
"...while this may seem to make the way the earth spins relative it really only shows that humans like to take a certain (often privilaged) point-of-view, however, this does not mean that the earth does not spin in a certain fixed direction (in general)"
- That's right. The Earth merely spins. It is US that give it 'direction', in order to communicate its meaning to ourselves.
"..."standing on the earth" and "hanging off the earth" are different only in their connotations, a more precise (though cumbersome and therefore seldom used) expression would be that we are gravitationally bound to the surface of the earth (if one is simply standing and not moving with respect to the ground)"
- Exactly! Why do we need many explainations to to observe the same thing?
" ...i prefer to say i am standing on the earth rather than hanging off it because hanging off it gives the connotation that i am dangling and free to move rather than having my whole body pulled by the force of gravity towards the center of the earth"
- Your preference is absolutely fine with me! I know what you mean
Thanks for taking the time out to consider!
S.
" ...if one designates a certain direction (such as east) then the direction in which the earth spins can be described otherwise it would have no meaning"
- I agree! It is us (Humans) that need to 'give meaning' to each other, to necessarily describe what we perceive. This does not make it a Natural phenomena of Space. WE exchange words. 'Space' doesn't need to explain itself to us!
"...while this may seem to make the way the earth spins relative it really only shows that humans like to take a certain (often privilaged) point-of-view, however, this does not mean that the earth does not spin in a certain fixed direction (in general)"
- That's right. The Earth merely spins. It is US that give it 'direction', in order to communicate its meaning to ourselves.
"..."standing on the earth" and "hanging off the earth" are different only in their connotations, a more precise (though cumbersome and therefore seldom used) expression would be that we are gravitationally bound to the surface of the earth (if one is simply standing and not moving with respect to the ground)"
- Exactly! Why do we need many explainations to to observe the same thing?
" ...i prefer to say i am standing on the earth rather than hanging off it because hanging off it gives the connotation that i am dangling and free to move rather than having my whole body pulled by the force of gravity towards the center of the earth"
- Your preference is absolutely fine with me! I know what you mean
Thanks for taking the time out to consider!
S.
Hey Knot of this World, et al.
In slightly different terms, you could say that the nature should obey parity conservation (mirror symmetry). Looking at the spin of the Earth from the North Pole should yield the same physical results as looking at the Earth from the South Pole with the exception of the change of sign in one of the coordinates. The laws of physics should be invariant to your frame of reference, North looking South and vice versa. It should be a simple matter of choosing your coordinates. The math should always work out the same. But the weak force does not obey mirror symmetry! CP is violated and matter is produced in a greater quantity than antimatter. So from a certain perspective, there is a privileged frame of reference out there and it favors right-handedness (or left-handedness if your looking in a mirror!)
In slightly different terms, you could say that the nature should obey parity conservation (mirror symmetry). Looking at the spin of the Earth from the North Pole should yield the same physical results as looking at the Earth from the South Pole with the exception of the change of sign in one of the coordinates. The laws of physics should be invariant to your frame of reference, North looking South and vice versa. It should be a simple matter of choosing your coordinates. The math should always work out the same. But the weak force does not obey mirror symmetry! CP is violated and matter is produced in a greater quantity than antimatter. So from a certain perspective, there is a privileged frame of reference out there and it favors right-handedness (or left-handedness if your looking in a mirror!)
QUOTE (Why Not?+Mar 15 2006, 04:14 AM)
Hey Knot of this World, et al.
In slightly different terms, you could say that the nature should obey parity conservation (mirror symmetry). Looking at the spin of the Earth from the North Pole should yield the same physical results as looking at the Earth from the South Pole with the exception of the change of sign in one of the coordinates. The laws of physics should be invariant to your frame of reference, North looking South and vice versa. It should be a simple matter of choosing your coordinates. The math should always work out the same. But the weak force does not obey mirror symmetry! CP is violated and matter is produced in a greater quantity than antimatter. So from a certain perspective, there is a privileged frame of reference out there and it favors right-handedness (or left-handedness if your looking in a mirror!)
Hi,
The moment you 'choose your coordinates' you express a Human judgement, which is irrelevant when trying to describe Extra-Human phenomena.
Likewise, left-handedness, or right-handedness have no relevance to Universal Truth.
We attempt to describe one single perspective, with the use of another single perspective, and keep arguing about 'our personal perspectives' when they are irrelevant to the larger Truth, which is Universal, and beyond Human judgement.
Things are what they are. Not just what Humans think they are!
S.
In slightly different terms, you could say that the nature should obey parity conservation (mirror symmetry). Looking at the spin of the Earth from the North Pole should yield the same physical results as looking at the Earth from the South Pole with the exception of the change of sign in one of the coordinates. The laws of physics should be invariant to your frame of reference, North looking South and vice versa. It should be a simple matter of choosing your coordinates. The math should always work out the same. But the weak force does not obey mirror symmetry! CP is violated and matter is produced in a greater quantity than antimatter. So from a certain perspective, there is a privileged frame of reference out there and it favors right-handedness (or left-handedness if your looking in a mirror!)
Hi,
The moment you 'choose your coordinates' you express a Human judgement, which is irrelevant when trying to describe Extra-Human phenomena.
Likewise, left-handedness, or right-handedness have no relevance to Universal Truth.
We attempt to describe one single perspective, with the use of another single perspective, and keep arguing about 'our personal perspectives' when they are irrelevant to the larger Truth, which is Universal, and beyond Human judgement.
Things are what they are. Not just what Humans think they are!
S.
Yes, I think there is only one 'direction' in Reality, that of evolution, which is 'forwards'.
k.
k.
QUOTE (Knot of this world+May 13 2006, 11:03 PM)
Yes, I think there is only one 'direction' in Reality, that of evolution, which is 'forwards'.
k.
That is right. The arrow of time isn't a relative thing. It goes forward no matter which direction you travel.
k.
That is right. The arrow of time isn't a relative thing. It goes forward no matter which direction you travel.
Well, I don't really believe in 'time' as such.
There is ongoing movement, which certainly IS relative to individual perspective. Hence the infinite number of ways to describe the One thing.
k.
There is ongoing movement, which certainly IS relative to individual perspective. Hence the infinite number of ways to describe the One thing.
k.
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