Where Have All The Positrons Gone?

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 05:35 AM

In a previous thread, I confessed to having a 'possible' explanation regarding the bias of matter over anti-matter:

Click

Well batten-down your crank hatches ...... here it is!

I propose that leptogenesis in the early universe (thought to be just a few seconds after the 'Big Bang') produced equal quantities of both. However, as the universe was expanding so fast, some of them separated beyond c ..... and this really is key; Imagine two such electrons e1 & e2, undergoing superluminal divorce - However, this may not be the case for their corresponding positrons (p1 & p2).
eg;- e1 & p2, e2 & p1 may well be relatively local ...... now here's the big "IF"

If an electron - positron pair are just mere points within a timespace hoop of specific rotational direction (one in which the rotation goes from electron to positron) - could it be, that from the frame of the electrons - both local positrons appear to be electrons, brought about by means of a rotational inversion, created via superluminal departure of their electron twins?

- This type of mechanism might hold true for all particles created within the inflationary period of the universe!

Wow - that feels better ..... getting that codswallop off me chest.

So there we have it - half the electrons in our 'section' of the universe may be simply 'backwards' positrons.

NymphaeaAlba

31st July 2010 - 06:24 AM

And here's a big "MAYBE"

QUOTE

In our observation matter is favored over antimatter but the mechanism underlying our observation would not necessarily work in the same direction in the early universe. Future determination of this mechanism, together with cosmological calculations will tell us how our measurement fits into the matter dominance puzzle.

Fermilab scientists find evidence for significant matter-antimatter asymmetry

Evidence for an Anomalous like-sign Dimuon Charge Asymmetry

List of Questions and Answers for the Dimuon asymmetry results

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 06:30 AM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Jul 31 2010, 06:24 AM)

Fermilab scientists find evidence for significant matter-antimatter asymmetry

Evidence for an Anomalous like-sign Dimuon Charge Asymmetry

List of Questions and Answers for the Dimuon asymmetry results

Yeah, sure I know of the post 1964 CP violation evidence stuff .... perhaps there are other more 'exotic' mechanisms @ work here.

p.s:- what would you know anyhow .... you're only a girl.

NymphaeaAlba

31st July 2010 - 06:39 AM

Okay, an exotic big "MAYBE"

...from an exotic girl.

TheDoc

31st July 2010 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Jul 30 2010, 11:30 PM)

p.s:- what would you know anyhow .... you're only a girl.

...Not just any girl, but an exotic girl.

An exotic girl who also happens to suffer from psychosis.

Amy would be disturbed.

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 06:54 AM

QUOTE (TheDoc+Jul 31 2010, 06:52 AM)

...Not just any girl, but an exotic girl.

An exotic girl who also happens to suffer from psychosis.

Amy would be disturbed.

Quite so - I believe she's exotically disturbed.

NymphaeaAlba

31st July 2010 - 07:05 AM

TheDoc slithers out in the open. I thought you enjoyed lurking in the feedback. Is this your attempt at a worthy reply? Poor Doc, haven’t you ever had a crazy girl? What am I thinking…you probably haven’t even had a girl.

Maybe your right Doc. Maybe I am crazy. You should know. Didn't you tell me you worked as male psychiatric 'nut-house' nurse?

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 07:13 AM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Jul 31 2010, 07:05 AM)

What am I thinking…you probably haven’t even had a girl.

As opposed to someone who's had lots of men (read; raped by male psychiatric 'nut-house' nurses, on a most regular basis).

NymphaeaAlba

31st July 2010 - 07:28 AM

fivedoughnut,

I didn’t realize that you were an actual scientist. Maybe your idea does warrant more attention.
I do remember seeing something similar here.

Maybe you could answer a question for me.
What is that insensitive bit at the base of the penis called? Is it called the man?

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 07:31 AM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Jul 31 2010, 07:28 AM)

Maybe you could answer a question for me.
What is that insensitive bit at the base of the penis called? Is it called the man?

.... that's actually funny, honey!

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 07:36 AM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Jul 31 2010, 07:28 AM)

fivedoughnut,

I didn’t realize that you were an actual scientist.

Yeah, only a pharmaceutical stability analyst though.

brucep

31st July 2010 - 08:12 AM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Jul 31 2010, 07:36 AM)

Yeah, only a pharmaceutical stability analyst though.

I was in the french quarter on fat tuesday and I had misplaced my van. I was under the influence of a bunch of cocaine, 1/2 quart of Patron, about ten of these little yellow speed goodies [never knew the name], and probably five fatties of primo columbo. The quarter was shutting down [the only time it does during the year] and I couldn't find my friggin van. My body felt like I'd dropped a tab of acid but my head felt like I was sober. Does that qualify as a pharmaceutical stability analyst?

fivedoughnut_

31st July 2010 - 08:20 AM

QUOTE (brucep+Jul 31 2010, 08:12 AM)

I was in the french quarter on fat tuesday and I had misplaced my van. I was under the influence of a bunch of cocaine, 1/2 quart of Patron, about ten of these little yellow speed goodies [never knew the name], and probably five fatties of primo columbo. The quarter was shutting down [the only time it does during the year] and I couldn't find my friggin van. My body felt like I'd dropped a tab of acid but my head felt like I was sober. Does that qualify as a pharmaceutical stability analyst?

Wow! ...... sure does! - although, on a more sickeningly sad note; the sort of 'analysis' I perform, invovles HPLC and other damn (head-wankingly tiresome) techniques.

brucep

31st July 2010 - 08:33 AM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Jul 31 2010, 08:20 AM)

Wow! ...... sure does! - although, on a more sickeningly sad note; the sort of 'analysis' I perform, invovles HPLC and other damn (head-wankingly tiresome) techniques.

I looked it up. Sounds like a high tech drug screen. Just kidding. Sounds interesting. My tale was from my 'continually stoned phase' which ended about 25 years ago. After I retired I tried living on the bud for about a year but it was to much work and onset of old age was already making me stupid enough.

NymphaeaAlba

31st July 2010 - 08:57 PM

Holy smokes! I was picturing you as a refined gentleman and here you were at the famous Louisiana accelerator. No wonder you’re such a fan of SR. You’ve experienced time dilation firsthand. I’ve only had limited alcohol and marijuana once. That’s all I could smuggle into the psychiatric ward. Too bad you weren’t a male psychiatric 'nut-house' nurse. Now that would have been fun!

Let’s put the original post back on track. He’s a good sport.

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Jul 30 2010, 10:35 PM)

In a previous thread, I confessed to having a 'possible' explanation regarding the bias of matter over anti-matter:

Click

Well batten-down your crank hatches ...... here it is!

I propose that leptogenesis in the early universe (thought to be just a few seconds after the 'Big Bang') produced equal quantities of both. However, as the universe was expanding so fast, some of them separated beyond c ..... and this really is key; Imagine two such electrons e1 & e2, undergoing superluminal divorce - However, this may not be the case for their corresponding positrons (p1 & p2).
eg;- e1 & p2, e2 & p1 may well be relatively local ...... now here's the big "IF"

If an electron - positron pair are just mere points within a timespace hoop of specific rotational direction (one in which the rotation goes from electron to positron) - could it be, that from the frame of the electrons - both local positrons appear to be electrons, brought about by means of a rotational inversion, created via superluminal departure of their electron twins?

- This type of mechanism might hold true for all particles created within the inflationary period of the universe!

Wow - that feels better ..... getting that codswallop off me chest.

So there we have it - half the electrons in our 'section' of the universe may be simply 'backwards' positrons.

brucep

1st August 2010 - 03:04 AM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Jul 31 2010, 05:35 AM)

In a previous thread, I confessed to having a 'possible' explanation regarding the bias of matter over anti-matter:

Click

Well batten-down your crank hatches ...... here it is!

I propose that leptogenesis in the early universe (thought to be just a few seconds after the 'Big Bang') produced equal quantities of both. However, as the universe was expanding so fast, some of them separated beyond c ..... and this really is key; Imagine two such electrons e1 & e2, undergoing superluminal divorce - However, this may not be the case for their corresponding positrons (p1 & p2).
eg;- e1 & p2, e2 & p1 may well be relatively local ...... now here's the big "IF"

If an electron - positron pair are just mere points within a timespace hoop of specific rotational direction (one in which the rotation goes from electron to positron) - could it be, that from the frame of the electrons - both local positrons appear to be electrons, brought about by means of a rotational inversion, created via superluminal departure of their electron twins?

- This type of mechanism might hold true for all particles created within the inflationary period of the universe!

Wow - that feels better ..... getting that codswallop off me chest.

So there we have it - half the electrons in our 'section' of the universe may be simply 'backwards' positrons.

At first thought this is what I get. Inflation is GR working on a quantum field in a special way where the pressure term is dominant so the inflating field is a false vacuum of negative pressure and constant energy density. Read this for the Guth easy to understand version.

http://web.mit.edu/physics/news/physicsatm...2_cosmology.pdf

Leptogenesis is believed to have occurred after inflation [Guth explains how the false vacuum provides all the stuff the early universe was made of]. So if you could place leptogenesis before inflation ended you would still need to explain why inflation separated matter/antimatter asymmetrically. Not so sure I made sense.

fivedoughnut_

1st August 2010 - 04:45 AM

QUOTE (brucep+Aug 1 2010, 03:04 AM)

Leptogenesis is believed to have occurred after inflation [Guth explains how the false vacuum provides all the stuff the early universe was made of]. So if you could place leptogenesis before inflation ended you would still need to explain why inflation separated matter/antimatter asymmetrically. Not so sure I made sense.

Hey, you're right - read the Guth stuff and this wiki job ..... so like, inflation was over and done, long before any particle other than Higgs had arrived - thanks, should have done my homework before blathering .... next time I spam this nonsense, I'll omit the "might hold true for all particles created within the inflationary period of the universe!" bit.

That aside - clearly, due to spatial expansion, many particles (and growing) now exist beyond our light horizon/observable universe. I wonder what the percentages were during the first 10 - 20 seconds after the BB (from the perspective of a newly born electron?).

Cheers brucie boy.

fivedoughnut_

1st August 2010 - 05:56 AM

QUOTE (brucep+Aug 1 2010, 03:04 AM)

you would still need to explain why inflation separated matter/antimatter asymmetrically.

Well, we've now dispensed with "inflation" as it totally doesn't apply. The 'concept' I'm attempting to promote here (and as a spammer, elsewhere

) to account for the apparent asymmetry, involves a purely speculative mechanism, whereby the counter-particle of a >c removed one, locally exhibits a reversed state - on the basis of both being but one overall 'structure/geometry' .... aspects of which exist in higher dimensional space, and as such are able to breach this otherwise impenetrable barrier. In addition, one which also has an intrinsic directional 'wave-flow' - possibly what we term "charge" (excuse the ad-lib terminology, I'm only a friggin' pharma' scientist after all

).

Core to this actual reversal, is a Lorentz transformational process involving a hyperspatial wavefront, as it arcs between two points of separation exceeding c, correspondingly producing a negative value, but only for (in the case of the positron) as it's receiving this uni-directional 'flow' originating from the electron.

ps;- and you think you have trouble making sense!

fivedoughnut_

1st August 2010 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Jul 31 2010, 08:57 PM)

Let’s put the original post back on track. He’s a good sport.

Thanks darling. Although being labelled " a good sport" is something rather fresh

...... usually it's something more; "you vile, upholstered sewer-mouthed bast'd".

Gonna still neg ya fer being a girl.

NymphaeaAlba

1st August 2010 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (fivedumbnuts+)

Yeah, sure I know of the post 1964 CP violation evidence stuff .... perhaps there are other more 'exotic' mechanisms @ work here.
p.s:- what would you know anyhow .... you're only a girl.

SOoo...you didn't like the girly CP violation. Just trying to help.

GUT baryogenesis
Electroweak baryogenesis
Affleck-Dine Mechanism
Leptogenesis

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Aug 1 2010, 01:05 AM)

Thanks darling. Although being labelled " a good sport" is something rather fresh

...... usually it's something more; "you vile, upholstered sewer-mouthed bast'd".

Gonna still neg ya fer being a girl.

Wow! That little statement spoke volumes. Suit yourself. Just don't mistake my kindness for my weakness. There seems to be plenty of philogynists on board. I think I’ll be okay…

fivedoughnut_

1st August 2010 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Aug 1 2010, 05:42 PM)

There seems to be plenty of philogynists on board. I think I’ll be okay…

"philogynists"

..... surely you mean "psychiatrists".

NymphaeaAlba

1st August 2010 - 06:53 PM

It is obvious that we both enjoy physics, and intelligent men, but neither is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder. However, this symptom is listed…hmm

fivedoughnut_

1st August 2010 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Aug 1 2010, 06:53 PM)

It is obvious that we both enjoy physics, and intelligent men, but neither is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder. However, this symptom is listed…hmm

Yup baby, a crank I be ... @ least I'm honest.

brucep

1st August 2010 - 09:33 PM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Aug 1 2010, 07:18 PM)

Yup baby, a crank I be ... @ least I'm honest.

You're not a crank. Cranks are folks who can't roundfile an idea in the face of having been shown, or discovered, it's the wrong approach. I would say, at this time, I don't understand what you're trying to convey [based on your description last night]. I thought I was getting your idea when inflation was involved. The wiki page placed lepto/barygenesis at reheating just when the inflating false vacuum finished rolling down the potential to true vacuum. The idea is, I think, the potential oscillates around the minimum while leptons and quarks are created from the oscillating quantum field created during inflation. Something like that. So it seems something happened, around then, which led to the asymetry. Look at this one:

The Little Review of Leptogenesis
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0904/0904.1182v1.pdf

NymphaeaAlba

1st August 2010 - 09:54 PM

Why do I always give people the benefit of the doubt?
Here's a link from a dumb girl.

Starts With a Bang: The Greatest Story Ever Told

brucep

1st August 2010 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Aug 1 2010, 09:54 PM)

Why do I always give people the benefit of the doubt?
Here's a link from a dumb girl.

Starts With a Bang: The Greatest Story Ever Told

I like those links.

fivedoughnut_

4th August 2010 - 05:19 PM

Thanks you 2 - that link Bruce .... a tad more than a little beyond me I'm afraid. Very impressed if you managed to follow it though.

brucep

5th August 2010 - 01:56 AM

QUOTE (fivedoughnut_+Aug 4 2010, 05:19 PM)

Thanks you 2 - that link Bruce .... a tad more than a little beyond me I'm afraid. Very impressed if you managed to follow it though.

It's pretty hard to understand all the details. We're not particle physicists or cosmologists. Since I can't review all the detail I'll look at the discussion and conclusion and pick out the key stuff to review. One key thing is the BAU, baryon asymmetry of the universe, was consummated during the electroweak phase transition 10e-11 second to 10e-5 second and temperature 100 Gev to 1 Gev [quark, gluon, lepton W +/-, Z, Higgs].

Electroweak phase transition LHC.

http://www.jrank.org/space/pages/2330/elec...transition.html

And the following is the key section of the conclusion section of the paper.

"In this paper we have studied resonant leptogenesis in the MLFV framework where it
is assumed that the charged-lepton and the neutrino Yukawa couplings are the only
irreducible sources of lepton flavour symmetry breaking. In such a framework, the
heavy RH neutrinos are highly degenerate in mass, and their decays in the early
Universe may give rise to the observed baryon asymmetry through the mechanism of
resonant leptogenesis."

Also

"It has been explicitly demonstrated
how the observed matter–antimatter asymmetry in the Universe may be successfully explained
by thermal resonant leptogenesis at the electroweak scale, independently of any non-zero
primordial baryon asymmetry."

So they'rer basically saying the BAU, beginning from null asymmetry, can be a result of the decay of large degenerate mass neutrinos during the electroweak phase transition. They also expect to test this hypothesis at the LHC.

Something like that. Haha. Might even fit what you had in your mind.

Ivars

5th August 2010 - 05:58 AM

Fivedoughnut,

Exactly the right question, in the topic name.

In Diracs interpretation,positrons that are pairs of electrons with positive energies filling our world, would have returned to and disappeared in negative energy sea without the electron to properly seal the hole in it ->which is positron. So the hole ( positron) disappears by other means, perhaps by spreading the hole out over all Dirac sea or by closing via deformation of negative electron energy states that are still there.

Any of such processes must create excited states in Dirac negative energy sea, and it is these states, negative energy perturbations perhaps in -mc^2 to 0 or mc^2 gap over Dirac's unobservable negative energy sea whose lowest energy states are fully filled, perturbations which we collectively experience as vacuum.

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