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coberst
Where did love come from?

Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth. I claim that the emotion of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals.

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

Quickie from Wiki: “Plato constructed the Symposium as a story within a story within a story. This architecture creates the space for Plato to build his philosophy of knowledge. The speech of Socrates points out that the highest purpose of Love is to become a Philosopher, or Lover of Wisdom.”

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc.

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Socrates also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato/Socrates judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

What do you judge to be the primordial animal source (assuming an acceptance of the validity of Darwin’s theory of natural selection) for the emotion of love in humans?
coberst
I suspect that like all of natural selection that the better the bond between the nurturing mother and the infant the more likely the survival of the infant and thus those mutations that helped this bonding became part of the gene pool.
AlefBet
Love comes from genetic programming and egoism.

Mother cares for a child because nature requires us to do so. We love our spouses, siblings, parents, love to eat apple pie, fish, we love to run, sit and watch tv, hang out with friends, all are love for the self.



_
"Kabbalah does not let us live our lives in the dust, but elevates our mind to the height of knowledge." Johannes Reuchlin
iseason
Define Love.

For me , Love is continuing to nurture and support despite other instinctive desires drawing us in different directions.

If you mean feelings.....They are not love, but need a qualifying discriptive.

Cheers
Iseason
Guest
All love comes from God. God made us in His image and likeness, we therefore have the ability to love. Love is only by freewill choice. God gave us freewill so that we can make the choice to love.

Man is able to show and express love through actions. Love is the denying of ourselves for others.
iseason
QUOTE (Guest+May 28 2009, 09:21 PM)
All love comes from God. God made us in His image and likeness, we therefore have the ability to love. Love is only by freewill choice. God gave us freewill so that we can make the choice to love.

Man is able to show and express love through actions. Love is the denying of ourselves for others.

Hi Guest

Only your last sentence is valid, For your first explanations are saying nothing at all about love.

We show love by what we actually do. Not by how we feel about what we do. If I am repulsed by the lifestyle of someone I am helping to change, then I am showing that I love them. Not because I care, but because I continue to help them. Don't confuse feelings with love. The two have very little to do with each other.

A drunk may beat up his wife and claim to still love her. At the point he beat her he was not "loving' her, nor was he when he asked for forgiveness from her. He loved her when he supported her during the rest of the week by working in a job he hated which caused him to lash out in anger.
Incidents do not create or take away love,in the same way as moods do. This man's wife , loves him by caring for his children and home. But does not love him when she repeatedly tells him his job pays good money and so he should stay.
Love has empathy which demonstrates the course of action to ensure the benefit of another. Therefore, the wife will forgive the husband because the children go to a good school. The husband will stay at his job for the same reason.

Love is very selective. When this couple were young , they loved each other by ensuring nothing came between them. As parents, they ensure that nothing harms the future of their kids. Both understand the limitations in one another and "choose" to love "their children" over one another.

Look around you. It's true

Cheers
Iseason
AlefBet
I love ice cream
I love cats
I love fish
I love flowers
I love my car
I love my mother
I love my wife

Love is material. True love will only happen when the whole world treat each other as themselves. This means achieving a higher state of unity. Then can we see true love, that is the love of our neighbour as ourselves.



_
"Kabbalah does not let us live our lives in the dust, but elevates our mind to the height of knowledge." Johannes Reuchlin
iseason
QUOTE (AlefBet+May 29 2009, 04:57 AM)
I love ice cream
I love cats
I love fish
I love flowers
I love my car
I love my mother
I love my wife

Love is material. True love will only happen when the whole world treat each other as themselves. This means achieving a higher state of unity. Then can we see true love, that is the love of our neighbour as ourselves.



_
"Kabbalah does not let us live our lives in the dust, but elevates our mind to the height of knowledge." Johannes Reuchlin

Hi all

Change that to "treat your neighbours as yourself" and you understand love.

Cheers
Iseason
dariennn
Lovvee iss saidd too bee aa stronnqq wordd thatt killss peopplee ;;
butt too mee Loovee iss aa promisee ;;
Lovvee iss aa souveeniirr ;;
onccee qivveenn ;; neeverr forrqottenn ;; neveerr
leett itt diissaappeaarr ;;&ndd onnee mstakkee
will makkee yoo'r liiffee full off fearr ;;
&ndd totaaal chaaoss staartss withh onnee tearr "
boyy &ndd qirll creaattee Lovvee ;;
happinneess &ndd trusstt creeaatte Lovvee ;;
Lovvee isntt aa chooiccee yoo makkee ;;
itss thee waayy yoo faall foorr sommeonne elssee ;;
ittss nott outt off yoo'r ownn free will ;;
ittss commess fuhmm thee heartt &ndd thee emotionnall
partt off yoo'r minndd ;;
yoo nevverr choossee whoo yoo waanntt too faall foorr ;;
itt juss happenddss whenn yoo leasstt expecctt itt ;;
neverr qoo lookinn foorr loovvee cauusee ittss aa quaranntee
thatt yoo wonntt findd itt ;; ittt finndss yoo ;;
♂+♀=♥
__yaaboyy386®
light in the tunnel
I have observed many interesting behaviors in my cats. It always fascinated me that cats play with their prey before and after killing it, for example.

More recently, my cat had kittens and now that the kittens are older the mother, who loved them and licked their backsides clean when they were nursing, now hisses at the and attacks them for being on her territory.

When she first came to live here, there was another cat who had always lived only as an outdoor cat and was very jealous of the indoor cat. When we got this new cat to replace the other indoor cat, which had died, the outdoor cat became extremely jealous and territorial and attacked the new cat mercilessly whenever possible.

One day the new cat somehow got outside and was chased by the jealous outdoor cat into a tree and intimidated to stay there all day before I got home to find her and help her. By that time she was completely traumatized and refused to let me help her out of the tree. She slept in the tree and only came out the next day when I chased her out with a long pole.

Now I wonder if that traumatic experience of being chased and territorialized by the outdoor cat is what causes her to hiss at her daughters and attack them. I suspect that when people or animals are abused, they look for opportunities to abuse others in the same position of vulnerability they were in when they were abused.

So, even though this mother cat loved her babies, once they got to be the age that reminded her of herself at the time she was traumatically attacked by the outdoor cat, she took the role of bully up against her own kittens.

I think that this is just a byproduct of being dominated and submitting to the violence of the dominator. Once you have been dominated, the question is what is going to trigger the same aggression in the victim to turn them into the same kind of aggressor that victimized them.

Or maybe any cat would turn against her kittens as they got older, regardless of past experiences of victimization and domination.
Dr Fred A Wolf
Love is many things, mostly encompassed by an evolutionary process for genes to survive.

smile.gif
Matador
I have a persian x himalayan, a very respectfull cat. We have a bond smile.gif
Dr Fred A Wolf
QUOTE (iseason+May 28 2009, 08:02 PM)
Hi all

Change that to "treat your neighbours as yourself" and you understand love.

Ok, I'm a self mutilating suicidal schizophrenic who simply adores horrendous pain ...... thanks, time to pay the neighbours a surprise visit with my newly acquired MkII eye mincer.


smile.gif
Dr Fred A Wolf
Strangely, not amused ????


smile.gif
orestis
This might or might not be true but it has worked for me.

Feelings are the chemistry that goes on in our bodies. Serotonin, dopamine and adrenalin give us physical experiences.

Emotions are how we interpret that chemistry.

The chemistry and our interpretation feed back and forth on each other. One can generate the other.

From experience, when in the deepest, darkest hole of depression if you bring up the idea of selfless love inside you, you can get out of it. It is the only rope that can reach down to those depths.

Love is an evolutionary survival technique. Both for the genes you have put in your offspring and your own self.

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