QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 26 2012, 03:11 PM)
Yeah yeah, false prophet, blah blah.
The scientific community is very unlikely to take advice from you Mazulu. Why did you even say that?
The scientific community is very unlikely to take advice from you Mazulu. Why did you even say that?
QUOTE (Ed Wood+)
Have you ever woke up with the decidedly Ptolemaic notion that you are being held 9.80665 meters from the center of the universe?
Yup. Just try to imagine what she'll look like when she's 50.
-C2.
Yup. Just try to imagine what she'll look like when she's 50.
-C2.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 26 2012, 03:08 PM)
It has nothing to do with a detector. Apparently you never heard of this issue so I'll explain from the beginning. Most people who have looked at warp drive have only looked at the case of a lapse function of 1 meaning that time runs at the same rate in the ship as it does for the home base from which it warps away. This means that gamma rays and even lower frequency light from stars head on from the front of the ship undergoes ordinary Doppler shift according to those intersectin it in the ship. At high enough warp speed even most starlight becomes Doppler shifted to gamma ray spectrum and this all becomes a Danger to the crew. I'm saying that there are ways of manipulating the spacetime geometry so that this incomming light is gravitationally Doppler shifter toward red by the time it gets into the ship or up to deflective shielding so that it isn't a danger.
Great post. Talk more about the lapse function, how it effects the metric and how it contributes to solving warp physics issues. I was looking at the wiki page, somebody linked, on warp drive physics. All the references were pre turn of the century. You and your peers are way beyond that. Seemed like there was interest following Alcubierre's paper which faded away except for you and the core group working with you. I hate hearing all the bullshit associated with warp drive physics, in this thread, since the actual physics is so interesting. That was a great post. Explaining from the beginning opens up a real discussion.
Great post. Talk more about the lapse function, how it effects the metric and how it contributes to solving warp physics issues. I was looking at the wiki page, somebody linked, on warp drive physics. All the references were pre turn of the century. You and your peers are way beyond that. Seemed like there was interest following Alcubierre's paper which faded away except for you and the core group working with you. I hate hearing all the bullshit associated with warp drive physics, in this thread, since the actual physics is so interesting. That was a great post. Explaining from the beginning opens up a real discussion.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 26 2012, 03:08 PM)
It has nothing to do with a detector. Apparently you never heard of this issue so I'll explain from the beginning. Most people who have looked at warp drive have only looked at the case of a lapse function of 1 meaning that time runs at the same rate in the ship as it does for the home base from which it warps away. This means that gamma rays and even lower frequency light from stars head on from the front of the ship undergoes ordinary Doppler shift according to those intersectin it in the ship. At high enough warp speed even most starlight becomes Doppler shifted to gamma ray spectrum and this all becomes a Danger to the crew.
Are you referring to the Unruh effect? I was just gonna use thick metal shielding. But you have another idea?
I'm sure there are ways of manipulating space-time geometry to that the incoming light in red-shifted. Like I've been saying all along, transmitting frequency shift should have the effect of producing a localized acceleration field. I don't know the details of what happens if you transmit different kinds of frequency shift. Only experiments can tell you that. Some frequency shifts might give you force-fields, propulsion, tractor beams, warp drives, even change permitivity/permeability constants.
Are you referring to the Unruh effect? I was just gonna use thick metal shielding. But you have another idea?
QUOTE
I'm saying that there are ways of manipulating the spacetime geometry so that this incomming light is gravitationally Doppler shifter toward red by the time it gets into the ship or up to deflective shielding so that it isn't a danger.I'm saying that there are ways of manipulating the spacetime geometry so that this incomming light is gravitationally Doppler shifter toward red by the time it gets into the ship or up to deflective shielding so that it isn't a danger.
I'm sure there are ways of manipulating space-time geometry to that the incoming light in red-shifted. Like I've been saying all along, transmitting frequency shift should have the effect of producing a localized acceleration field. I don't know the details of what happens if you transmit different kinds of frequency shift. Only experiments can tell you that. Some frequency shifts might give you force-fields, propulsion, tractor beams, warp drives, even change permitivity/permeability constants.
QUOTE (Confused1+Mar 26 2012, 06:03 PM)
QUOTE (Ed Wood+)
Have you ever woke up with the decidedly Ptolemaic notion that you are being held 9.80665 meters from the center of the universe?
Yup. Just try to imagine what she'll look like when she's 50.
-C2.
LOL
We'll have to have that warning added to christmas tree lights.
We'll have to have that warning added to christmas tree lights.
Xmas tree lights won't warp space-time. Shift photon specs are extremely precise. Both the phase and the frequency have to be controlled very precisely. The phase has to be unbroken as much as possible. The frequency shift equation is: f(t) = [df/dt]*t+f_0, where df/dt has to be very very large.
You greatly underestimate how challenging this experiment will be, from an engineering point of view.
Mentally incontinent is a great phrase, rpenner.
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
What will you do with your spare microseconds when you are banned off this forum?
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
OK I'm not getting a clear signal from you. Can you try to explain what the physics community is doing to pursue warp theory, and why you think your approach will work?
Your a Silly horse MR ED!
Yup. Just try to imagine what she'll look like when she's 50.
-C2.
LOL
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 26 2012, 08:34 PM)
Are you referring to the Unruh effect? I was just gonna use thick metal shielding. But you have another idea?
I'm sure there are ways of manipulating space-time geometry to that the incoming light in red-shifted. Like I've been saying all along, transmitting frequency shift should have the effect of producing a localized acceleration field. I don't know the details of what happens if you transmit different kinds of frequency shift. Only experiments can tell you that. Some frequency shifts might give you force-fields, propulsion, tractor beams, warp drives, even change permitivity/permeability constants.
This is what David is referring to.
On the Problems of Hazardous Matter and Radiation at Faster than Light Speeds in the Warp Drive Space-Time
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc?0207109
David said he has a different way to achieve the shielding the paper derives.
I'm sure there are ways of manipulating space-time geometry to that the incoming light in red-shifted. Like I've been saying all along, transmitting frequency shift should have the effect of producing a localized acceleration field. I don't know the details of what happens if you transmit different kinds of frequency shift. Only experiments can tell you that. Some frequency shifts might give you force-fields, propulsion, tractor beams, warp drives, even change permitivity/permeability constants.
This is what David is referring to.
On the Problems of Hazardous Matter and Radiation at Faster than Light Speeds in the Warp Drive Space-Time
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc?0207109
David said he has a different way to achieve the shielding the paper derives.
QUOTE (Investigator+Mar 26 2012, 11:14 PM)
Thankyou Mr Mazulu. Please I am confused about frequency shift inside one wavelength? If wavelength is one cycle and one cycle is one photon, then what changes inside one cycly but wavelength. If one cycle is changed in emitting process then that photon is emitted with what cycle made what wavelength? That wavelength is only for that photon cycle. If change is after previous cycle then new photon is started to emitting with different wavelength if new cyle is different from previous? I don't understand what shifting in one cycle and one photon is. If change inside cycle then that cycle is photon of that changed cycle wavelength. New cycle starting for new photon is different photon and not shifted first photon? Please explain more simple as poss for me what you mean shift photon? Is same photon generate cycle or different photon generate cycle? Thankyou.
Hi Investigator,
Remember that we're talking about frequency of light (Electromagnetism). The frequency of red light is about 450 THz = 450*10^12Hz. If the frequency was 1Hz, we could say that frequency is the time rate of change of phase, 1Hz = 1 cycle/second = 360 degrees/sec. 360 degrees makes a circle.
Hypothetically, if a photon of 1Hz were to fall into the gravity well of a black hole, it could frequency shift up to 10 Hz (10 cycles per second) as it reaches the event horizon. Black holes cause time dilation upon approach to the event horizon. At a point near the event horizon, the photon is clocked at 10 cycles per second because the clock time has slowed down, but the number of cycles stay the same. Oddly, this could also be interpreted as an increase in energy of the photon ( E = hf ) where h is the Planck constant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_constant
It was this strange time dilation effect that gave me the idea that we could run the effect in reverse; that we could emit a frequency shift, from 1Hz to 10Hz, in a finite time (very small time) and produce a gravity effect. But the change in frequency versus change in time should be as high as possible to get a measureable effect.
Hi Investigator,
Remember that we're talking about frequency of light (Electromagnetism). The frequency of red light is about 450 THz = 450*10^12Hz. If the frequency was 1Hz, we could say that frequency is the time rate of change of phase, 1Hz = 1 cycle/second = 360 degrees/sec. 360 degrees makes a circle.
Hypothetically, if a photon of 1Hz were to fall into the gravity well of a black hole, it could frequency shift up to 10 Hz (10 cycles per second) as it reaches the event horizon. Black holes cause time dilation upon approach to the event horizon. At a point near the event horizon, the photon is clocked at 10 cycles per second because the clock time has slowed down, but the number of cycles stay the same. Oddly, this could also be interpreted as an increase in energy of the photon ( E = hf ) where h is the Planck constant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_constant
It was this strange time dilation effect that gave me the idea that we could run the effect in reverse; that we could emit a frequency shift, from 1Hz to 10Hz, in a finite time (very small time) and produce a gravity effect. But the change in frequency versus change in time should be as high as possible to get a measureable effect.
QUOTE (Investigator+Mar 26 2012, 11:43 PM)
Thankyou. I understand. What you describe is a wave train is not? Each photon is a wave and joined in a train of waves? So shift happens to each wave in train then? Shifting changes train by changing each photon in train? How does that affect anything outside of train of shifting photons like you explained? Please explain simple as poss again for me. Thankyou.
You've got the right idea. Phase theta, for each cycle, is 360 degrees. We can write 1 cycle per second as 360 degrees per second.
Imagine that 10 cycles of 1Hz frequencies are emitted and directed towards a sensor near the event horizon of a black hole. It takes ten seconds to emit those 10 cycles. But when the 10 cycles are detected by a sensor in the gravity well, the sensor detects 10 cycles in one second, it detects 10Hz. The increase in frequency has to do with the increase in energy that the photons acquire when falling into the gravity well. Also remember that the sensor can only detect as many cycles as the emitter transmits. If the sensor detects 11 cycles, but the emitter only emitted 10, then the sensor is probably defective.
Efforts to unify quantum mechanics (a.k.a. wave mechanics) and general relativity (gravity) go back to the 1940's with Albert Einstein. You've heard about string theory which is untestable because it exists in 11 dimensions. I wanted something that was experimentally verifiable. One night, I was thinking about the gravity well of a black hole. I was thinking about photons as they fall into the gravity well, they blue shift. I also knew about gravitational time dilation which almost seems required because the gravity well in increasing the frequency of the photon(s).
I was looking for a way to manipulate gravity, manipulate the space-time continuum by curving it (inducing a gravity field). Then it occured to me. What happens if an optoelectronics device emits light with a changing frequency? Technically, you could do this very easily with frequency modulation. You could frequency shift a ramp function. So why don't we see FM radio towers emitting gravity waves? For the same reason that we don't see gravity waves when we spin superconductors. The effect is too small to notice without extremely sensitive equipment.
I started playing around with a variation of the Newton force equation F=ma. I wrote it down as: F = h(Delta f)/c(Delta t).
It just means that the strength of the force generated by frequency shifting has to be proportional to the change in frequency with respect to the change in time.
Since the visible light spectrum isn't licensed by anyone, I thought that 400THz - 800THz was a very large frequency shift. If it could be shifted in less than a 100 microseconds, we would get a proof of concept.
So I haven't given a proof that this will work. I've only found something that should be tested experimentally, to see if a df/dt will give us back a gravity field.
You've got the right idea. Phase theta, for each cycle, is 360 degrees. We can write 1 cycle per second as 360 degrees per second.
Imagine that 10 cycles of 1Hz frequencies are emitted and directed towards a sensor near the event horizon of a black hole. It takes ten seconds to emit those 10 cycles. But when the 10 cycles are detected by a sensor in the gravity well, the sensor detects 10 cycles in one second, it detects 10Hz. The increase in frequency has to do with the increase in energy that the photons acquire when falling into the gravity well. Also remember that the sensor can only detect as many cycles as the emitter transmits. If the sensor detects 11 cycles, but the emitter only emitted 10, then the sensor is probably defective.
Efforts to unify quantum mechanics (a.k.a. wave mechanics) and general relativity (gravity) go back to the 1940's with Albert Einstein. You've heard about string theory which is untestable because it exists in 11 dimensions. I wanted something that was experimentally verifiable. One night, I was thinking about the gravity well of a black hole. I was thinking about photons as they fall into the gravity well, they blue shift. I also knew about gravitational time dilation which almost seems required because the gravity well in increasing the frequency of the photon(s).
I was looking for a way to manipulate gravity, manipulate the space-time continuum by curving it (inducing a gravity field). Then it occured to me. What happens if an optoelectronics device emits light with a changing frequency? Technically, you could do this very easily with frequency modulation. You could frequency shift a ramp function. So why don't we see FM radio towers emitting gravity waves? For the same reason that we don't see gravity waves when we spin superconductors. The effect is too small to notice without extremely sensitive equipment.
I started playing around with a variation of the Newton force equation F=ma. I wrote it down as: F = h(Delta f)/c(Delta t).
It just means that the strength of the force generated by frequency shifting has to be proportional to the change in frequency with respect to the change in time.
Since the visible light spectrum isn't licensed by anyone, I thought that 400THz - 800THz was a very large frequency shift. If it could be shifted in less than a 100 microseconds, we would get a proof of concept.
So I haven't given a proof that this will work. I've only found something that should be tested experimentally, to see if a df/dt will give us back a gravity field.
Problem with warp drive!
The space is twisted ahead and behind the capsule the occupants will have no idea where they are in space and time. It will be like they are lost in space and with no way of communication, so they will be the ultimate "deaf, dumb and blind kids".
The space is twisted ahead and behind the capsule the occupants will have no idea where they are in space and time. It will be like they are lost in space and with no way of communication, so they will be the ultimate "deaf, dumb and blind kids".
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 26 2012, 03:08 PM)
It has nothing to do with a detector. Apparently you never heard of this issue so I'll explain from the beginning. Most people who have looked at warp drive have only looked at the case of a lapse function of 1 meaning that time runs at the same rate in the ship as it does for the home base from which it warps away. This means that gamma rays and even lower frequency light from stars head on from the front of the ship undergoes ordinary Doppler shift according to those intersectin it in the ship. At high enough warp speed even most starlight becomes Doppler shifted to gamma ray spectrum and this all becomes a Danger to the crew. I'm saying that there are ways of manipulating the spacetime geometry so that this incomming light is gravitationally Doppler shifter toward red by the time it gets into the ship or up to deflective shielding so that it isn't a danger.
waitedavid,
How do you propose to manipulate space-time geometry? Are you going to borrow my idea and run with it? Are you going to bring a black hole with you? Failing that, there is always pixie dust. I'm not trying to be a onery, I'm just wondering how you're going to accomplish this amazing feat of manipulating space-time so as to redshift incoming gamma rays.
Investigator,
The kind of devices I'm talking about don't need that much energy, maybe a few killowatts. These are local distortions in space-time that flout the stress-energy tensor of the Einstein equations. These kinds of devices can violate conservation of energy. When energy is inevitably created, it comes with its negative gravitiational potential energy "image". This is an application of the Zero Energy Universe hypothesis.
waitedavid,
How do you propose to manipulate space-time geometry? Are you going to borrow my idea and run with it? Are you going to bring a black hole with you? Failing that, there is always pixie dust. I'm not trying to be a onery, I'm just wondering how you're going to accomplish this amazing feat of manipulating space-time so as to redshift incoming gamma rays.
QUOTE
Thankyou yes I understand. But energy in equals energy out? Energy from gravity well change example is so much and so fast. But is energy in machine to shift same magnitudes as gravity makes on photons? Is gravity around black hole strength same as made by your machine to shift photons? Thankyou.
Investigator,
The kind of devices I'm talking about don't need that much energy, maybe a few killowatts. These are local distortions in space-time that flout the stress-energy tensor of the Einstein equations. These kinds of devices can violate conservation of energy. When energy is inevitably created, it comes with its negative gravitiational potential energy "image". This is an application of the Zero Energy Universe hypothesis.
QUOTE (brucep+Mar 26 2012, 12:30 PM)
Great post. Talk more about the lapse function, how it effects the metric and how it contributes to solving warp physics issues. I was looking at the wiki page, somebody linked, on warp drive physics. All the references were pre turn of the century. You and your peers are way beyond that. Seemed like there was interest following Alcubierre's paper which faded away except for you and the core group working with you. I hate hearing all the bullshit associated with warp drive physics, in this thread, since the actual physics is so interesting. That was a great post. Explaining from the beginning opens up a real discussion.
Alcubierres paper cab be found at
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
Alcubierres paper cab be found at
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 27 2012, 03:52 AM)
Alcubierres paper cab be found at
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
Wow! I hope this leads to a testable warp theory. Can you tell me anything about the "pulsed sublight warp drive"? What is pulsed? LIght? How does pulsing of light connect you to a warp in space time?
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
Wow! I hope this leads to a testable warp theory. Can you tell me anything about the "pulsed sublight warp drive"? What is pulsed? LIght? How does pulsing of light connect you to a warp in space time?
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 27 2012, 03:52 AM)
Alcubierres paper cab be found at
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
In equation 1 there is an α which is called the lapse function. If is is 1 at infinity then its value at the location of the crew determins how time runs for the crew with respect to those at infinity. Pretty much anywhere you see his warp drive metric you will see a simplification of it and this α will be replace with just a 1. Alcubierre did an energy density calculation equation 19 of his paper which suggests the α was in it, but when I exactly calculated the ship frame energy density without α got (19) where f is replaced by g which is 1-f. So I thought I would transform the result to a Eulerian observer as he calls it in his paper to include the α and found that it actually divides the energy density by α⁴
This means that if you were to choose the lapse function so that it were large at the location of the matter producing the warp it would lower the energy magnitude. Some time after Alcubierres paper Pfenning and Ford published
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/9702026
in which quantum inequalities were applied to set limits on the thickness of this negative energy matter. If the ship were of reasonable size the thickness was very small and volume integrating the energy density gave the insanely huge magnitude for the negative energy that everyone always talks about regarding warp drive. Their (1) for the warp drive metric didn't even include α other than 1 everywhere so I went back through their calculations putting it in. It turns out that α at the location of the matter thickens up the allowed thickness set by the quantum inequality. This is the biggest energy magnitude dropping effect. These suggested to me that more general warp drives don't necessarisarily require the negative energy at all. Its presence is probably an artifact of leaving out a central attraction in the line element for things being gravitationally attracted to the ship. Latter I realised that the exact pp radiation solution to Einstein's field equations can be written as a warp drive metric with the exeption that the leading at tail edges of the warp has to be c, not equal to the warp speed within. This is when I mentioned one could have a pulsed sublight warp drive where a ship essentially surfs the warp in spacetime generated behind the ship. This would have NO exotic matter. This leads me to think there are more general warp drive metric waiting to be found that are much more reasonable and efficient than Alcubierre's original.
Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 26 2012, 11:30 PM)
Wow! I hope this leads to a testable warp theory. Can you tell me anything about the "pulsed sublight warp drive"? What is pulsed? LIght? How does pulsing of light connect you to a warp in space time?
These usually require some, as yet unknown/undiscovered, exotic matter, like tachyons.
These usually require some, as yet unknown/undiscovered, exotic matter, like tachyons.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 26 2012, 10:30 PM)
Wow! I hope this leads to a testable warp theory. Can you tell me anything about the "pulsed sublight warp drive"? What is pulsed? LIght? How does pulsing of light connect you to a warp in space time?
All I know so far is in the following videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HazOEqeae8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpB1gf56aPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcIGUJuFE0
Alcubierre's warp drive has negative energy for any speed, even sublight. This warp drive can't take you past the speed of light but has no negative energy at all, no exotic matter, no tachyons. This indicates to me that other modified warp drives can be found with more reasonable energy requirements.
All I know so far is in the following videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HazOEqeae8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpB1gf56aPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcIGUJuFE0
Alcubierre's warp drive has negative energy for any speed, even sublight. This warp drive can't take you past the speed of light but has no negative energy at all, no exotic matter, no tachyons. This indicates to me that other modified warp drives can be found with more reasonable energy requirements.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 27 2012, 02:55 PM)
All I know so far is in the following videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HazOEqeae8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpB1gf56aPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcIGUJuFE0
Alcubierre's warp drive has negative energy for any speed, even sublight. This warp drive can't take you past the speed of light but has no negative energy at all, no exotic matter, no tachyons. This indicates to me that other modified warp drives can be found with more reasonable energy requirements.
waitedavid,
If you're looking for an electromagnetic pulse configuration, you might want to consider the shift photon equation. It's as simple as an equation for a line Y=mX+b.
Frequency f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0.
In my opinion the experimental physics community should perform frequency shift experiments, and fill in the mathematics later after we achieve proof of concept and get some experimental data. I would express some concern for safety. Shift photon generation is expected to have a powerful effect on the local space-time continuum; it could produce anything from an energy conservation violation (by creating new energy) to disrupting the space-time in the vicinity of the emitters.
You probably don't want to hear this, but it is my opinion that warp drive physics will never be simple enough to write as a single equation (like the Einstein equations). It will become a bunch of recipes that defy mathematics. If you want speed v for mass m, then emit this frequency shift in this way. The mathematics of warp drive physics will be impossible to predict from first principles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HazOEqeae8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpB1gf56aPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcIGUJuFE0
Alcubierre's warp drive has negative energy for any speed, even sublight. This warp drive can't take you past the speed of light but has no negative energy at all, no exotic matter, no tachyons. This indicates to me that other modified warp drives can be found with more reasonable energy requirements.
waitedavid,
If you're looking for an electromagnetic pulse configuration, you might want to consider the shift photon equation. It's as simple as an equation for a line Y=mX+b.
Frequency f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0.
In my opinion the experimental physics community should perform frequency shift experiments, and fill in the mathematics later after we achieve proof of concept and get some experimental data. I would express some concern for safety. Shift photon generation is expected to have a powerful effect on the local space-time continuum; it could produce anything from an energy conservation violation (by creating new energy) to disrupting the space-time in the vicinity of the emitters.
You probably don't want to hear this, but it is my opinion that warp drive physics will never be simple enough to write as a single equation (like the Einstein equations). It will become a bunch of recipes that defy mathematics. If you want speed v for mass m, then emit this frequency shift in this way. The mathematics of warp drive physics will be impossible to predict from first principles.
QUOTE
Shift photon generation is expected to have a powerful effect on the local space-time continuum; it could produce anything from an energy conservation violation (by creating new energy) to disrupting the space-time in the vicinity of the emitters.
We'll have to have that warning added to christmas tree lights.
QUOTE (AlexG+Mar 27 2012, 06:16 PM)
We'll have to have that warning added to christmas tree lights.
Xmas tree lights won't warp space-time. Shift photon specs are extremely precise. Both the phase and the frequency have to be controlled very precisely. The phase has to be unbroken as much as possible. The frequency shift equation is: f(t) = [df/dt]*t+f_0, where df/dt has to be very very large.
You greatly underestimate how challenging this experiment will be, from an engineering point of view.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 27 2012, 06:11 PM)
waitedavid,
If you're looking for an electromagnetic pulse configuration, you might want to consider the shift photon equation. It's as simple as an equation for a line Y=mX+b.
Frequency f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0.
In my opinion the experimental physics community should perform frequency shift experiments, and fill in the mathematics later after we achieve proof of concept and get some experimental data. I would express some concern for safety. Shift photon generation is expected to have a powerful effect on the local space-time continuum; it could produce anything from an energy conservation violation (by creating new energy) to disrupting the space-time in the vicinity of the emitters.
You probably don't want to hear this, but it is my opinion that warp drive physics will never be simple enough to write as a single equation (like the Einstein equations). It will become a bunch of recipes that defy mathematics. If you want speed v for mass m, then emit this frequency shift in this way. The mathematics of warp drive physics will be impossible to predict from first principles.
The problem for you is your opinion makes no difference for the science. You've deluded yourself into thinking your idea is brilliant when in fact it's bullshit.
Make believe experiment #2 coming up? How about posting the results of make believe experiment #1?
If you're looking for an electromagnetic pulse configuration, you might want to consider the shift photon equation. It's as simple as an equation for a line Y=mX+b.
Frequency f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0.
In my opinion the experimental physics community should perform frequency shift experiments, and fill in the mathematics later after we achieve proof of concept and get some experimental data. I would express some concern for safety. Shift photon generation is expected to have a powerful effect on the local space-time continuum; it could produce anything from an energy conservation violation (by creating new energy) to disrupting the space-time in the vicinity of the emitters.
You probably don't want to hear this, but it is my opinion that warp drive physics will never be simple enough to write as a single equation (like the Einstein equations). It will become a bunch of recipes that defy mathematics. If you want speed v for mass m, then emit this frequency shift in this way. The mathematics of warp drive physics will be impossible to predict from first principles.
The problem for you is your opinion makes no difference for the science. You've deluded yourself into thinking your idea is brilliant when in fact it's bullshit.
Make believe experiment #2 coming up? How about posting the results of make believe experiment #1?
QUOTE (brucep+Mar 27 2012, 10:23 PM)
The problem for you is your opinion makes no difference for the science. You've deluded yourself into thinking your idea is brilliant when in fact it's bullshit.
Make believe experiment #2 coming up? How about posting the results of make believe experiment #1?
Just because someone can calculate the Alcubierre drive or some warp drive doesn't mean that you can do it. You need a way to warp space-time, you need some method to warp space, or you can't do it. Frequency shift offers a way to do that. Beyond that, you have zippo, nothin'.
In addition to solving the Einstein equations, you need to think about what we can physically do.
Make believe experiment #2 coming up? How about posting the results of make believe experiment #1?
Just because someone can calculate the Alcubierre drive or some warp drive doesn't mean that you can do it. You need a way to warp space-time, you need some method to warp space, or you can't do it. Frequency shift offers a way to do that. Beyond that, you have zippo, nothin'.
In addition to solving the Einstein equations, you need to think about what we can physically do.
QUOTE
You greatly underestimate how challenging this experiment will be, from an engineering point of view.
Mentally incontinent is a great phrase, rpenner.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 27 2012, 06:36 PM)
You greatly underestimate how challenging this experiment will be, from an engineering point of view.
Ever heard of quantum dot LEDs?
This thread represents a new benchmark in delusional imbecilism - well done!
Ever heard of quantum dot LEDs?
This thread represents a new benchmark in delusional imbecilism - well done!
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 27 2012, 11:21 PM)
Just because someone can calculate the Alcubierre drive or some warp drive doesn't mean that you can do it. You need a way to warp space-time, you need some method to warp space, or you can't do it. Frequency shift offers a way to do that. Beyond that, you have zippo, nothin'.
In addition to solving the Einstein equations, you need to think about what we can physically do.
You're not making any contribution because you're scientifically illiterate. Your frequency shift idea is really stupid so it won't do anything but remain stupid until you shut up and it goes away.
In addition to solving the Einstein equations, you need to think about what we can physically do.
You're not making any contribution because you're scientifically illiterate. Your frequency shift idea is really stupid so it won't do anything but remain stupid until you shut up and it goes away.
QUOTE (brucep+Mar 28 2012, 04:42 AM)
You're not making any contribution because you're scientifically illiterate. Your frequency shift idea is really stupid so it won't do anything but remain stupid until you shut up and it goes away.
Actually, it's a great idea. Experiments should be performed, and it will work. Shift photons will be shown to induce a curvature in space-time.
Actually, it's a great idea. Experiments should be performed, and it will work. Shift photons will be shown to induce a curvature in space-time.
Hopeless.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 05:32 AM)
Actually, it's a great idea. Experiments should be performed, and it will work. Shift photons will be shown to induce a curvature in space-time.
Well, you're the only person who feels it's great. It's complete nonsense and you're exhibiting delusional behavior by continuing to make believe it's great.
Well, you're the only person who feels it's great. It's complete nonsense and you're exhibiting delusional behavior by continuing to make believe it's great.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 05:32 AM)
Actually, it's a great idea. Experiments should be performed, and it will work. Shift photons will be shown to induce a curvature in space-time.
no it is not. i don't know why you don't get it. photons get shifted they do not shift.
no it is not. i don't know why you don't get it. photons get shifted they do not shift.
I have a stupid question.
Does anyone know if the double slit experiment has been performed in hard vaccum?
Have there been any papers written about it?
I think it must have.
please advise
Does anyone know if the double slit experiment has been performed in hard vaccum?
Have there been any papers written about it?
I think it must have.
please advise
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 28 2012, 06:55 AM)
I have a stupid question.
Does anyone know if the double slit experiment has been performed in hard vaccum?
Have there been any papers written about it?
I think it must have.
please advise
Normally electron double slit diffraction is done in lab vacuum.
You could always make a vacuum chamber, get a laser pointer and do it yourself for light.
Does anyone know if the double slit experiment has been performed in hard vaccum?
Have there been any papers written about it?
I think it must have.
please advise
Normally electron double slit diffraction is done in lab vacuum.
You could always make a vacuum chamber, get a laser pointer and do it yourself for light.
QUOTE (Investigator+Mar 27 2012, 02:08 PM)
Thankyou sir. If surfing tail warp what is happening front of ship? Is warp there too? Is repulsive or attracting front of ship? Is protected from impacts of normal spacetime object? Confused. Please explain as simple as poss for me. Thankyou sir.
For the sublight pulsed warp drive that I'm saying the pp electromagnetic radiation exact solution the Einsteins field equations is, the warp overtakes the ship from behind. You could say it pushes the ship as it passes except the ship is really free falling weightless. Impacts shouldn't be a problem because it drags everything it passes forward. As the ship is in the warp everything ahead of it in the warp is also being "pushed" forward until the pulse has passed the ship.
For the sublight pulsed warp drive that I'm saying the pp electromagnetic radiation exact solution the Einsteins field equations is, the warp overtakes the ship from behind. You could say it pushes the ship as it passes except the ship is really free falling weightless. Impacts shouldn't be a problem because it drags everything it passes forward. As the ship is in the warp everything ahead of it in the warp is also being "pushed" forward until the pulse has passed the ship.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 28 2012, 04:01 PM)
For the sublight pulsed warp drive that I'm saying the pp electromagnetic radiation exact solution the Einsteins field equations is, the warp overtakes the ship from behind. You could say it pushes the ship as it passes except the ship is really free falling weightless. Impacts shouldn't be a problem because it drags everything it passes forward. As the ship is in the warp everything ahead of it in the warp is also being "pushed" forward until the pulse has passed the ship.
waitedavid,
How are you getting light to couple with a warp field that overtakes the ship? Obviously flashlights don't do it.
waitedavid,
How are you getting light to couple with a warp field that overtakes the ship? Obviously flashlights don't do it.
QUOTE (brucep+Mar 28 2012, 08:42 AM)
Well, you're the only person who feels it's great. It's complete nonsense and you're exhibiting delusional behavior by continuing to make believe it's great.
I have something that you don't, none of you have. I have an idea for how light can be made to couple with gravity waves. I have an idea of how we can induce a curvature in space-time.
None of you have any clue how to induce a curvature in space-time. You can calculate space-time curvature until the cows come home, but it won't lead you to anything experimentally verifiable..
The methodology of inducing curvature in space-time is just out of reach of human understanding.
I have something that you don't, none of you have. I have an idea for how light can be made to couple with gravity waves. I have an idea of how we can induce a curvature in space-time.
None of you have any clue how to induce a curvature in space-time. You can calculate space-time curvature until the cows come home, but it won't lead you to anything experimentally verifiable..
QUOTE
no it is not. i don't know why you don't get it. photons get shifted they do not shift.
The methodology of inducing curvature in space-time is just out of reach of human understanding.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 06:26 PM)
The methodology of inducing curvature in space-time is just out of reach of human understanding.
Then why is it so apparent to a mindsplatteringly dumfucked delusional imbecile?
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
Then why is it so apparent to a mindsplatteringly dumfucked delusional imbecile?
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 28 2012, 06:59 PM)
Then why is it so apparent to a mindsplatteringly dumfucked delusional imbecile?
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
I just love it when someone else is being murdered! Am I voyeuristic?
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
I just love it when someone else is being murdered! Am I voyeuristic?
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 05:40 PM)
waitedavid,
How are you getting light to couple with a warp field that overtakes the ship? Obviously flashlights don't do it.
'sublight' means warp speed is less than the local coordinate speed of light. 'FTL' means warp speed is greater than the local coordinate speed of light. Two categories of warp drive solutions to the EFE. FTL and sublight.
How are you getting light to couple with a warp field that overtakes the ship? Obviously flashlights don't do it.
'sublight' means warp speed is less than the local coordinate speed of light. 'FTL' means warp speed is greater than the local coordinate speed of light. Two categories of warp drive solutions to the EFE. FTL and sublight.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 28 2012, 06:59 PM)
Then why is it so apparent to a mindsplatteringly dumfucked delusional imbecile?
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
Dear Gutter-maiden,
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
Rabid hamster squeal;- no more, no less.
Dear Gutter-maiden,
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
QUOTE (brucep+Mar 28 2012, 08:09 PM)
'sublight' means warp speed is less than the local coordinate speed of light. 'FTL' means warp speed is greater than the local coordinate speed of light. Two categories of warp drive solutions to the EFE. FTL and sublight.
brucep,
Let's just focus on figuring out HOW to warp space-time. Once we have a method, then we can figure out how to break the speed of light barrier.
Waitedavid said something about a "pulse of light" and riding a gravity wave. I want more information about that pulse of light.
Just curious, how do we know that the Einstein equations (our description for gravity) are complete? How do we know that there aren't additional terms that can produce curvature (besides the Cosmological constant/expansion of the universe)?
brucep,
Let's just focus on figuring out HOW to warp space-time. Once we have a method, then we can figure out how to break the speed of light barrier.
Waitedavid said something about a "pulse of light" and riding a gravity wave. I want more information about that pulse of light.
Just curious, how do we know that the Einstein equations (our description for gravity) are complete? How do we know that there aren't additional terms that can produce curvature (besides the Cosmological constant/expansion of the universe)?
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 08:10 PM)
Dear Gutter-maiden,
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
Dude,
Cause and effect isn't that difficult to understand.
I truly understand your fervent defense of YOUR Ideas I have been there. I have made in retrospect some of the stupidest comments I have ever read.
When you realize how wrong you are I hope you can live with yourself and grow in understanding.
PEACE.
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
Dude,
Cause and effect isn't that difficult to understand.
I truly understand your fervent defense of YOUR Ideas I have been there. I have made in retrospect some of the stupidest comments I have ever read.
When you realize how wrong you are I hope you can live with yourself and grow in understanding.
PEACE.
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 28 2012, 08:24 PM)
Dude,
Cause and effect isn't that difficult to understand.
I truly understand your fervent defense of YOUR Ideas I have been there. I have made in retrospect some of the stupidest comments I have ever read.
When you realize how wrong you are I hope you can live with yourself and grow in understanding.
PEACE.
Ed,
First, just to make sure that you and everyone understand, I don't think that our current gravity equations are complete. I'm talking about new physics. You have the mistaken idea that I think the equations we have now are complete.
Second, the enormous mass-energy content of a black hole is so vast huge compared to a little photon, that the photon gets frequency shifted. Yes, I get that. But we still don't have any method or means to curve space-time for purposes of propulsion.
To that end, I want to treat the space-time continuum as a physical system that supports the properties of light (speed, frequency and phase). As a physical system, it is not perfect. There should be some conditions that cause the space-time continuum to "not work right". I believe that frequency shift experiments will probe the degree to which the space-time continuum will deviate from its typical expected behavior. If this is so, then we can take advantage of that to get our "method" to curve space-time.
Cause and effect isn't that difficult to understand.
I truly understand your fervent defense of YOUR Ideas I have been there. I have made in retrospect some of the stupidest comments I have ever read.
When you realize how wrong you are I hope you can live with yourself and grow in understanding.
PEACE.
Ed,
First, just to make sure that you and everyone understand, I don't think that our current gravity equations are complete. I'm talking about new physics. You have the mistaken idea that I think the equations we have now are complete.
Second, the enormous mass-energy content of a black hole is so vast huge compared to a little photon, that the photon gets frequency shifted. Yes, I get that. But we still don't have any method or means to curve space-time for purposes of propulsion.
To that end, I want to treat the space-time continuum as a physical system that supports the properties of light (speed, frequency and phase). As a physical system, it is not perfect. There should be some conditions that cause the space-time continuum to "not work right". I believe that frequency shift experiments will probe the degree to which the space-time continuum will deviate from its typical expected behavior. If this is so, then we can take advantage of that to get our "method" to curve space-time.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 08:10 PM)
Dear Gutter-maiden,
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
Hey don't talk to our lady like that lol
The reason it's obvious to me, but not everyone else, is because I asked for help from a Higher Power. You guys didn't.
Hey don't talk to our lady like that lol
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 28 2012, 11:35 PM)
Ed,
First, just to make sure that you and everyone understand, I don't think that our current gravity equations are complete. I'm talking about new physics. You have the mistaken idea that I think the equations we have now are complete.
Second, the enormous mass-energy content of a black hole is so vast huge compared to a little photon, that the photon gets frequency shifted. Yes, I get that. But we still don't have any method or means to curve space-time for purposes of propulsion.
To that end, I want to treat the space-time continuum as a physical system that supports the properties of light (speed, frequency and phase). As a physical system, it is not perfect. There should be some conditions that cause the space-time continuum to "not work right". I believe that frequency shift experiments will probe the degree to which the space-time continuum will deviate from its typical expected behavior. If this is so, then we can take advantage of that to get our "method" to curve space-time.
Mazulu try this
try this
E=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you have a photon with a wavelength of 680 nm it's energy is 2.92124e-19 Joules
2.92124e-19=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you'll see that that is not true because of several reasons
not the least of which is that light travels @ C because
∞=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
I'll go ya 1 further
consider photons have a mass M of 0
1=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
you get 1=0/0 or nonsensical =0/0
I'm sure someone will give me crap about dividing by zero being nonsensical or invalid which is probably technically true but nonetheless there it is 1 set of nothing.
I'm sure you will point out that that is not how you get the energy of a photon and that is why you get it like this
E=ħω=hv=hC/λ
I would make the assertion that
1*E=E not ∞ or nonsensical but that is just me.
First, just to make sure that you and everyone understand, I don't think that our current gravity equations are complete. I'm talking about new physics. You have the mistaken idea that I think the equations we have now are complete.
Second, the enormous mass-energy content of a black hole is so vast huge compared to a little photon, that the photon gets frequency shifted. Yes, I get that. But we still don't have any method or means to curve space-time for purposes of propulsion.
To that end, I want to treat the space-time continuum as a physical system that supports the properties of light (speed, frequency and phase). As a physical system, it is not perfect. There should be some conditions that cause the space-time continuum to "not work right". I believe that frequency shift experiments will probe the degree to which the space-time continuum will deviate from its typical expected behavior. If this is so, then we can take advantage of that to get our "method" to curve space-time.
Mazulu try this
try this
E=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you have a photon with a wavelength of 680 nm it's energy is 2.92124e-19 Joules
2.92124e-19=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you'll see that that is not true because of several reasons
not the least of which is that light travels @ C because
∞=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
I'll go ya 1 further
consider photons have a mass M of 0
1=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
you get 1=0/0 or nonsensical =0/0
I'm sure someone will give me crap about dividing by zero being nonsensical or invalid which is probably technically true but nonetheless there it is 1 set of nothing.
I'm sure you will point out that that is not how you get the energy of a photon and that is why you get it like this
E=ħω=hv=hC/λ
I would make the assertion that
1*E=E not ∞ or nonsensical but that is just me.
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 29 2012, 03:36 AM)
Mazulu try this
try this
E=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you have a photon with a wavelength of 680 nm it's energy is 2.92124e-19 Joules
2.92124e-19=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you'll see that that is not true because of several reasons
not the least of which is that light travels @ C because
∞=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
I'll go ya 1 further
consider photons have a mass M of 0
1=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
you get 1=0/0 or nonsensical =0/0
I'm sure someone will give me crap about dividing by zero being nonsensical or invalid which is probably technically true but nonetheless there it is 1 set of nothing.
I'm sure you will point out that that is not how you get the energy of a photon and that is why you get it like this
E=ħω=hv=hC/λ
I would make the assertion that
1*E=E not ∞ or nonsensical but that is just me.
You're right Ed; I am going to point out that the energy of a photon is E=hf. You're trying to argue something on the basis of 0 mass of a photon. I'm sorry, I don't follow you're argument. By the way, the photon is the only particle which has an energy content proportion to its frequency. We also get photons during particle-anti-particle annihilation.
It looks to me as if the space-time continuum and the quantum vacuum are there to support the characteristics of light (speed of light, frequency & phase).
I've already explained my experiment. I didn't see much interest in the details. I guess that's the way it goes with cultural evolution. Maybe it a few hundred years the physics community will get bored with unproductive math and will decide to pursue warp experiments. Or maybe the dolphins will evolve fingers/thumbs and build there own; who knows.
try this
E=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you have a photon with a wavelength of 680 nm it's energy is 2.92124e-19 Joules
2.92124e-19=MC^2/SQRT 1-V^2/C^2
you'll see that that is not true because of several reasons
not the least of which is that light travels @ C because
∞=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
I'll go ya 1 further
consider photons have a mass M of 0
1=MC^2/SQRT 1-C^2/C^2
you get 1=0/0 or nonsensical =0/0
I'm sure someone will give me crap about dividing by zero being nonsensical or invalid which is probably technically true but nonetheless there it is 1 set of nothing.
I'm sure you will point out that that is not how you get the energy of a photon and that is why you get it like this
E=ħω=hv=hC/λ
I would make the assertion that
1*E=E not ∞ or nonsensical but that is just me.
You're right Ed; I am going to point out that the energy of a photon is E=hf. You're trying to argue something on the basis of 0 mass of a photon. I'm sorry, I don't follow you're argument. By the way, the photon is the only particle which has an energy content proportion to its frequency. We also get photons during particle-anti-particle annihilation.
It looks to me as if the space-time continuum and the quantum vacuum are there to support the characteristics of light (speed of light, frequency & phase).
I've already explained my experiment. I didn't see much interest in the details. I guess that's the way it goes with cultural evolution. Maybe it a few hundred years the physics community will get bored with unproductive math and will decide to pursue warp experiments. Or maybe the dolphins will evolve fingers/thumbs and build there own; who knows.
a photon has no 0 mass which is (invariant).
It only has energy and momentum which are (relative).
and I will point out that v is frequency as in E=hv or hv f and f are the same thing frequency.
That is why I wrote the whole thing E=ħω=hv=hC/λ the λ is wavelength.
C/λ wavelength is frequency.
Look here under Physical Properties if you want to learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
It only has energy and momentum which are (relative).
and I will point out that v is frequency as in E=hv or hv f and f are the same thing frequency.
That is why I wrote the whole thing E=ħω=hv=hC/λ the λ is wavelength.
C/λ wavelength is frequency.
Look here under Physical Properties if you want to learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 29 2012, 11:36 AM)
a photon has no 0 mass which is (invariant).
It only has energy and momentum which are (relative).
and I will point out that v is frequency as in E=hv or hv f and f are the same thing frequency.
That is why I wrote the whole thing E=ħω=hv=hC/λ the λ is wavelength.
C/λ wavelength is frequency.
Look here under Physical Properties if you want to learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
Photons have no mass, correct. Photons are in a class by themselves. They are special, distinct and privileged. Gravity couples directly to light. That's why light (frequency shift of light) is a good candidate for finding something that curves space-time.
It only has energy and momentum which are (relative).
and I will point out that v is frequency as in E=hv or hv f and f are the same thing frequency.
That is why I wrote the whole thing E=ħω=hv=hC/λ the λ is wavelength.
C/λ wavelength is frequency.
Look here under Physical Properties if you want to learn something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
Photons have no mass, correct. Photons are in a class by themselves. They are special, distinct and privileged. Gravity couples directly to light. That's why light (frequency shift of light) is a good candidate for finding something that curves space-time.
QUOTE (Investigator+Mar 28 2012, 01:37 PM)
Thankyou sir waitedavid. Now understand what you describe. Question what is acceleration of rear to front warp wave? Is it g or more g's? Does warp wave pass through all ship molecules and interior space or only outside ship hull after it pushes rear surface to accelerate ship? If incoming from front objects going very fast how soon does wave passing forward from ship slow down objects? How far forward of ship does warp wave propagate before diverges to no effect on incoming from front objects moving fast for collision? When ship slowing down to destination and warp is reversed so front is pushed backwards direction, what then protecting from impacts of incoming during slowdown if objects are accelerated towards ship when warp drive in reverse? Sorry too many questions. Please explain simple as poss for me. Thankyou sir.
Regarding acceleration, I derived the equation of motion in one of the videos I linked. I think it was the last one on the list. No it doesn't push the ship backwards. The emp radiation can be a hollow tube so that it doesn't hit the ship. Its the accompanied gravity that the ship rides analogous to a surfer. The surfer near the beach where the board becomes propelled by the wave instead of bobbing circularly up and down. Here the surfer is propelled by the wave for a time, but ultimately either the wave passes under him and he no longer surfs, or the wave dissipates and stops propelling him. The diffusion of the wave depends a lot on how it was produced. Lasers for example can maintain beam width very far, but flashlight light diffuses rapidly.
Regarding acceleration, I derived the equation of motion in one of the videos I linked. I think it was the last one on the list. No it doesn't push the ship backwards. The emp radiation can be a hollow tube so that it doesn't hit the ship. Its the accompanied gravity that the ship rides analogous to a surfer. The surfer near the beach where the board becomes propelled by the wave instead of bobbing circularly up and down. Here the surfer is propelled by the wave for a time, but ultimately either the wave passes under him and he no longer surfs, or the wave dissipates and stops propelling him. The diffusion of the wave depends a lot on how it was produced. Lasers for example can maintain beam width very far, but flashlight light diffuses rapidly.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 29 2012, 12:36 PM)
Photons have no mass, correct.
Photons have no rest mass. They do have mass when in motion.
Photons have no rest mass. They do have mass when in motion.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 29 2012, 09:52 AM)
Photons have no rest mass. They do have mass when in motion.
They are *never* at rest. And they are *always* in motion.
A photon has zero mass by the usual definition of mass, the length of the momentum four-vector.
They are *never* at rest. And they are *always* in motion.
A photon has zero mass by the usual definition of mass, the length of the momentum four-vector.
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 29 2012, 12:55 PM)
They are *never* at rest. And they are *always* in motion.
A photon has zero mass by the usual definition of mass, the length of the momentum four-vector.
Right, but photons still experience the effects of gravitation, correct?
A photon has zero mass by the usual definition of mass, the length of the momentum four-vector.
Right, but photons still experience the effects of gravitation, correct?
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 29 2012, 09:58 AM)
Right, but photons still experience the effects of gravitation, correct?
If by that you mean follow geodesics just like everything else that has no real force acting on them does then yes.
If by that you mean follow geodesics just like everything else that has no real force acting on them does then yes.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 29 2012, 04:52 PM)
Photons have no rest mass. They do have mass when in motion.
Photons do NOT have mass. Inertial mass is defined as the resistance to changes in speed; but photons always travel at the speed of light.
Photons do follow the geodesic of curved space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass
Photons do NOT have mass. Inertial mass is defined as the resistance to changes in speed; but photons always travel at the speed of light.
Photons do follow the geodesic of curved space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 29 2012, 10:56 AM)
Photons do NOT have mass. Inertial mass is defined as the resistance to changes in speed; but photons always travel at the speed of light.
Photons do follow the geodesic of curved space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass
wiki isn't a valid reference. As proof for example the very page you link here says
M=γm₀
and contradicts itself on this two lines below that where it uses the capital M in the mass energy momentum equation. wiki is full of CRAP
Photons do follow the geodesic of curved space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass
wiki isn't a valid reference. As proof for example the very page you link here says
M=γm₀
and contradicts itself on this two lines below that where it uses the capital M in the mass energy momentum equation. wiki is full of CRAP
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 29 2012, 01:07 PM)
If by that you mean follow geodesics just like everything else that has no real force acting on them does then yes.
Ok, maybe you can answer this question I've had since I joined this forum:
Does gravity, via altering the geometry of spacetime, increase the volume of surrounding space?
To clarify, if you were to take 3 identical measuring tapes, each being 1 light year in length, and lay them out so they are parallel to each other with .5 light years between each, then, place a star near the mid-point of the middle tape, (assuming that all 3 tapes are still absolutely straight) would gravity cause the middle tape to come up shorter than the outer two?
Ok, maybe you can answer this question I've had since I joined this forum:
Does gravity, via altering the geometry of spacetime, increase the volume of surrounding space?
To clarify, if you were to take 3 identical measuring tapes, each being 1 light year in length, and lay them out so they are parallel to each other with .5 light years between each, then, place a star near the mid-point of the middle tape, (assuming that all 3 tapes are still absolutely straight) would gravity cause the middle tape to come up shorter than the outer two?
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Mar 29 2012, 06:17 PM)
wiki isn't a valid reference. As proof for example the very page you link here says
M=γm₀
and contradicts itself on this two lines below that where it uses the capital M in the mass energy momentum equation. wiki is full of CRAP
Waitedavid,
I understand. I'm in the process of moving and all my books are packed.
By the way, have you ever worked out the wave-function of a photon as it enters/exits the event horizon of a black hole? From what I understand, QM isn't equipped to deal with time dilation or curvature in space-time. String theory can provide a mathematics solution, but is itself unprovable (because we can't build 11 dimensional test equipment).
We really should perform experiments to investigate the seam where QM and GR meet. Obviously there are no black holes for us to perform experiments on. What we could do is simulate the gravitational time dilation of a black hole. I've been talking about frequency shifting for a long time now. In a way, a frequency shift f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0 is sort of like a time dilation (at least for that frequency shifted light). Since curvature of space-time can produce frequency shift, will the space-time continuum take any notice of an electronically generated frequency shift?
It's not enough for dogmatic physicists to dismiss this idea based on a thoughtless whim. This is something that needs to be tested.
M=γm₀
and contradicts itself on this two lines below that where it uses the capital M in the mass energy momentum equation. wiki is full of CRAP
Waitedavid,
I understand. I'm in the process of moving and all my books are packed.
By the way, have you ever worked out the wave-function of a photon as it enters/exits the event horizon of a black hole? From what I understand, QM isn't equipped to deal with time dilation or curvature in space-time. String theory can provide a mathematics solution, but is itself unprovable (because we can't build 11 dimensional test equipment).
We really should perform experiments to investigate the seam where QM and GR meet. Obviously there are no black holes for us to perform experiments on. What we could do is simulate the gravitational time dilation of a black hole. I've been talking about frequency shifting for a long time now. In a way, a frequency shift f(t) = [df/dt]t + f_0 is sort of like a time dilation (at least for that frequency shifted light). Since curvature of space-time can produce frequency shift, will the space-time continuum take any notice of an electronically generated frequency shift?
It's not enough for dogmatic physicists to dismiss this idea based on a thoughtless whim. This is something that needs to be tested.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 29 2012, 11:47 AM)
Ok, maybe you can answer this question I've had since I joined this forum:
Does gravity, via altering the geometry of spacetime, increase the volume of surrounding space?
That depends on the matter distribution.
To clarify, if you were to take 3 identical measuring tapes, each being 1 light year in length, and lay them out so they are parallel to each other with .5 light years between each, then, place a star near the mid-point of the middle tape, (assuming that all 3 tapes are still absolutely straight) would gravity cause the middle tape to come up shorter than the outer two?
According to Schwarzschild coordinates which are appropriate to a remote observer, yes.
Does gravity, via altering the geometry of spacetime, increase the volume of surrounding space?
That depends on the matter distribution.
QUOTE
To clarify, if you were to take 3 identical measuring tapes, each being 1 light year in length, and lay them out so they are parallel to each other with .5 light years between each, then, place a star near the mid-point of the middle tape, (assuming that all 3 tapes are still absolutely straight) would gravity cause the middle tape to come up shorter than the outer two?
According to Schwarzschild coordinates which are appropriate to a remote observer, yes.
Some may argue that the relationship between gravity and light is already well understood. Let me be more specific. There is more to learn, by experiment, about phase/frequency shift of light AND gravitational time dilation. Particularly, can we synthesize a frequency shift so perfect that it will grip onto (couple with) the force of gravity?
If not, then what does it take to reach deep into the weave of space-time and cause it to curve the way we want it to?
If not, then what does it take to reach deep into the weave of space-time and cause it to curve the way we want it to?
QUOTE (Investigator+Mar 29 2012, 08:35 PM)
Thankyou. Please sirs, is not frequency shift of same photon what happens all the times natural in recoil of sources when a photon emitted during recoil moving of source generating it? Example in Pound-Rebka experiment emitter recoil must be cancelled by experimenter moving crystal just so to cancel smearing of photon produced? Smearing means photon waveform is not symmetrical and so shifted during generate cycles not symmetric if recoil happens and not cancelled by experimenter. Experimenter giving sharp motion to emitter to prevent such photon shifting during generated yes? Is photon shifting when recoil not canceled by experimenter moving emitter then making space curve by smeared not symmetric waveform shift photon produced so? Is what you describe Mr Mazulu? Thankyou sirs.
A typical photon at some frequency f carries a momentum p = h/lambda = hf/c. The photon will deliver its momentum to the crystal (atom) that absorbs it.
I think you're asking if a shift photon of frequency shift Delta f will impart a momentum of Delta p = h(Delta f)/c. I wouldn't know for sure without performing an experiment.
A shift photon is supposed to induce a curvature in space-time. The fact that it carries momentum would be a somewhat unimportant issue. What is important is whether or the Einstein equations have another term. Ignoring the Cosmological constant, the E equations look something like,
R_mu,nu - 1/2 g_mu,nu R = 8piG/c^4 T_mu,nu + ... ???
In order for the shift photon to induce a curvature in space-time, there would have to be another term of the form,
+ df/dt * constant. If the constant is large, then shift photons will induce curvature. If the constant is too small, then we're back to square one.
A typical photon at some frequency f carries a momentum p = h/lambda = hf/c. The photon will deliver its momentum to the crystal (atom) that absorbs it.
I think you're asking if a shift photon of frequency shift Delta f will impart a momentum of Delta p = h(Delta f)/c. I wouldn't know for sure without performing an experiment.
A shift photon is supposed to induce a curvature in space-time. The fact that it carries momentum would be a somewhat unimportant issue. What is important is whether or the Einstein equations have another term. Ignoring the Cosmological constant, the E equations look something like,
R_mu,nu - 1/2 g_mu,nu R = 8piG/c^4 T_mu,nu + ... ???
In order for the shift photon to induce a curvature in space-time, there would have to be another term of the form,
+ df/dt * constant. If the constant is large, then shift photons will induce curvature. If the constant is too small, then we're back to square one.
The Einstein equations represent everything that we know about gravity. Like I've said before, we should treat the space-time continuum plus quantum vacuum as a physical system that supports the properties of light.
To date, we have not verified discovered a method to induce a curved space-time. Keeping in mind that the space-time continuum/quantum vacuum supports the characteristics of light, we can pursue a driving term of the form df/dt. This represents the time rate of change of light frequency. If df/dt can induce a curvature in space-time, then it would have to be added to the Einstein equations. There is probably a more appropriate tensor format, but it would look something like this.
R_mu,nu - 1/2 g_mu,nu R = 8piG/c^4 T_mu,nu + C*df/dt.
Now, all we have to do is determine the value of C, the scaling constant, by performing an experiment.
To date, we have not verified discovered a method to induce a curved space-time. Keeping in mind that the space-time continuum/quantum vacuum supports the characteristics of light, we can pursue a driving term of the form df/dt. This represents the time rate of change of light frequency. If df/dt can induce a curvature in space-time, then it would have to be added to the Einstein equations. There is probably a more appropriate tensor format, but it would look something like this.
R_mu,nu - 1/2 g_mu,nu R = 8piG/c^4 T_mu,nu + C*df/dt.
Now, all we have to do is determine the value of C, the scaling constant, by performing an experiment.
Mazulu, Photons do not bend space-time in space because they have 0 Rest mass as flyingbuttressman correctly pointed out.
There are 2 known possible cases where photons have a rest mass.
1. @ the event horizon of a black hole.
2. in a superconductor when in the superconducting state via coulomb coupling.
In both cases they are usually referred to as virtual photons.
1. Is somewhat useless in this discussion. Useful in others just not this one.
2. Could be useful because it's rest mass changes with acceleration (gravitomagnetic london moment). Want to know how read the 3 papers I presented earlier in the thread. Not to mention that superconductors can be used to create massive controllable tailored EMPs and/or EMP fields.
And just as a side note current record transition temperature is 28 degrees C.
http://www.superconductors.org/28c_rtsc.htm
goodnight
There are 2 known possible cases where photons have a rest mass.
1. @ the event horizon of a black hole.
2. in a superconductor when in the superconducting state via coulomb coupling.
In both cases they are usually referred to as virtual photons.
1. Is somewhat useless in this discussion. Useful in others just not this one.
2. Could be useful because it's rest mass changes with acceleration (gravitomagnetic london moment). Want to know how read the 3 papers I presented earlier in the thread. Not to mention that superconductors can be used to create massive controllable tailored EMPs and/or EMP fields.
And just as a side note current record transition temperature is 28 degrees C.
http://www.superconductors.org/28c_rtsc.htm
goodnight
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 30 2012, 04:26 AM)
Mazulu, Photons do not bend space-time in space because they have 0 Rest mass as flyingbuttressman correctly pointed out.
There are 2 known possible cases where photons have a rest mass.
1. @ the event horizon of a black hole.
2. in a superconductor when in the superconducting state via coulomb coupling.
In both cases they are usually referred to as virtual photons.
1. Is somewhat useless in this discussion. Useful in others just not this one.
2. Could be useful because it's rest mass changes with acceleration (gravitomagnetic london moment). Want to know how read the 3 papers I presented earlier in the thread. Not to mention that superconductors can be used to create massive controllable tailored EMPs and/or EMP fields.
And just as a side note current record transition temperature is 28 degrees C.
http://www.superconductors.org/28c_rtsc.htm
goodnight
Ed,
Rest mass has nothing to do with bending space-time; shame on you for bringing up a red herring.
Standard accepted physics says that space-time is curved by components of the stress-energy tensor. It includes things like energy density, sheer stress, etc...
I am telling you that the Einstein equations need another term, a driving term times a scaling constant. That driving term is df/dt, the change in light frequency with respect to time. That driving term is what's going to allow us to curve space-time. You can say all day long that no such driving term exists, but the truth is you haven't looked.
If you ever hope to see warp drives, anti-gravity, etc., then you're going to have to look for a hidden term in the Einstein equations. It would be clever on someone's part to hypothesize a description of this hidden term, and then perform an experiment to prove it.
There are 2 known possible cases where photons have a rest mass.
1. @ the event horizon of a black hole.
2. in a superconductor when in the superconducting state via coulomb coupling.
In both cases they are usually referred to as virtual photons.
1. Is somewhat useless in this discussion. Useful in others just not this one.
2. Could be useful because it's rest mass changes with acceleration (gravitomagnetic london moment). Want to know how read the 3 papers I presented earlier in the thread. Not to mention that superconductors can be used to create massive controllable tailored EMPs and/or EMP fields.
And just as a side note current record transition temperature is 28 degrees C.
http://www.superconductors.org/28c_rtsc.htm
goodnight
Ed,
Rest mass has nothing to do with bending space-time; shame on you for bringing up a red herring.
Standard accepted physics says that space-time is curved by components of the stress-energy tensor. It includes things like energy density, sheer stress, etc...
I am telling you that the Einstein equations need another term, a driving term times a scaling constant. That driving term is df/dt, the change in light frequency with respect to time. That driving term is what's going to allow us to curve space-time. You can say all day long that no such driving term exists, but the truth is you haven't looked.
If you ever hope to see warp drives, anti-gravity, etc., then you're going to have to look for a hidden term in the Einstein equations. It would be clever on someone's part to hypothesize a description of this hidden term, and then perform an experiment to prove it.
Mentally incontinent.
QUOTE (AlexG+Mar 30 2012, 06:49 AM)
Mentally incontinent.
If you same the same thing twice that is "eating your cabbage twice". Too much cabbage will give you the shitz. Maybe that's why you've got the diarrhoea?
If you same the same thing twice that is "eating your cabbage twice". Too much cabbage will give you the shitz. Maybe that's why you've got the diarrhoea?
The phrase is originally rpenner's.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
QUOTE (AlexG+Mar 30 2012, 07:25 AM)
The phrase is originally rpenner's.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
Can you do the maths like Penner too? I'm always on my best behaviour!
Hang on this the Warp drive thread.
Find out how make anti-gravity and you might be on the right track.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
Can you do the maths like Penner too? I'm always on my best behaviour!
Hang on this the Warp drive thread.
Find out how make anti-gravity and you might be on the right track.
QUOTE (AlexG+Mar 30 2012, 07:25 AM)
The phrase is originally rpenner's.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
You are such a little packet of negativity. You really should develop your relationship with the Creator.
I just like it. It's descriptive, and has the obvious imprimatur of the moderator.
You are such a little packet of negativity. You really should develop your relationship with the Creator.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 30 2012, 03:13 PM)
You are such a little packet of negativity.
You reap what you sow.
You reap what you sow.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 07:20 PM)
You reap what you sow.
He's not going to sow the negativity. For we have enough of that already.
He's not going to sow the negativity. For we have enough of that already.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 07:20 PM)
You reap what you sow.
Anyway, it's actually a very simple process to help us find a way to curve space-time.
Step 1: Hypothesize a driving terms and add it to the Einstein equations.
Step 2: Perform an experiment to test whether or not the driving term induces a measurable gravity field.
Step 3: Repeat if necessary.
I suggest we try a driving term of df/dt, the time rate of change of light frequency, with close attention to phase continuity.
Anyway, it's actually a very simple process to help us find a way to curve space-time.
Step 1: Hypothesize a driving terms and add it to the Einstein equations.
Step 2: Perform an experiment to test whether or not the driving term induces a measurable gravity field.
Step 3: Repeat if necessary.
I suggest we try a driving term of df/dt, the time rate of change of light frequency, with close attention to phase continuity.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Mar 30 2012, 03:30 PM)
He's not going to sow the negativity. For we have enough of that already.
If you sow stupidity, you reap negativity.
If you sow stupidity, you reap negativity.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 07:40 PM)
If you sow stupidity, you reap negativity.
No No No!
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
No No No!
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Mar 30 2012, 04:19 PM)
No No No!
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
I really don't get your sense of humor.
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
I really don't get your sense of humor.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 08:45 PM)
I really don't get your sense of humor.
Yeah. I am a bit different. Do you know any other Kiwis?
Yeah. I am a bit different. Do you know any other Kiwis?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Mar 30 2012, 05:02 PM)
Yeah. I am a bit different. Do you know any other Kiwis?
I don't think it's country of origin (though that could play a part), I think it's the fact that sarcasm cues don't translate to online communication.
I don't think it's country of origin (though that could play a part), I think it's the fact that sarcasm cues don't translate to online communication.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 09:14 PM)
I don't think it's country of origin (though that could play a part), I think it's the fact that sarcasm cues don't translate to online communication.
You start the sarcasm not me!
So why should I respond to your sarcasm. That's why I treat it as a joke, but of course I know what you mean and want from me. But you are not my boss.
You start the sarcasm not me!
So why should I respond to your sarcasm. That's why I treat it as a joke, but of course I know what you mean and want from me. But you are not my boss.
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 30 2012, 07:40 PM)
If you sow stupidity, you reap negativity.
I shall make war upon those who are obstacles to future technology, to innovation and to creativity. I shall crush the dogmatic imps who would enslave our minds. Be not brainwashed with unproductive mathematical gibberish, but be free and glorious in your warp technology experiments.
Those who sow unkindness upon us shall reap a harvest of insults. Our cause is to reveal warp technology. Those who stand with us shall inherit the future. And those who attack us will rue the day they started this war. Oh yes, they shall woo the day.
I shall make war upon those who are obstacles to future technology, to innovation and to creativity. I shall crush the dogmatic imps who would enslave our minds. Be not brainwashed with unproductive mathematical gibberish, but be free and glorious in your warp technology experiments.
Those who sow unkindness upon us shall reap a harvest of insults. Our cause is to reveal warp technology. Those who stand with us shall inherit the future. And those who attack us will rue the day they started this war. Oh yes, they shall woo the day.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 30 2012, 10:40 PM)
I shall make war upon those who are obstacles to future technology, to innovation and to creativity. I shall crush the dogmatic imps who would enslave our minds. Be not brainwashed with unproductive mathematical gibberish, but be free and glorious in your warp technology experiments.
Those who sow unkindness upon us shall reap a harvest of insults. Our cause is to reveal warp technology. Those who stand with us shall inherit the future. And those who attack us will rue the day they started this war. Oh yes, they shall woo the day.
Dude up til now I have been nice cordial and considerate. I have even attempted to bring you out of the darkness. You refuse to open your eyes.
I am all for Warp drive but your approach totally is flawed.
Those who sow unkindness upon us shall reap a harvest of insults. Our cause is to reveal warp technology. Those who stand with us shall inherit the future. And those who attack us will rue the day they started this war. Oh yes, they shall woo the day.
Dude up til now I have been nice cordial and considerate. I have even attempted to bring you out of the darkness. You refuse to open your eyes.
I am all for Warp drive but your approach totally is flawed.
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 30 2012, 10:59 PM)
Dude up til now I have been nice cordial and considerate. I have even attempted to bring you out of the darkness. You refuse to open your eyes.
I am all for Warp drive but your approach totally is flawed.
Ed,
If the Einstein equations are complete then there is no way to get a warp drive. The knowledge content of our physical sciences tells us that warp drive is impossible. We have to assume there is something that we don't know that will make it possible. For that reason, it is a good idea to start by adding a driving term to the Einstein equations, and then performing an experiment to see if it works. If this is unclear, I am happy to explain what I mean.
I am all for Warp drive but your approach totally is flawed.
Ed,
If the Einstein equations are complete then there is no way to get a warp drive. The knowledge content of our physical sciences tells us that warp drive is impossible. We have to assume there is something that we don't know that will make it possible. For that reason, it is a good idea to start by adding a driving term to the Einstein equations, and then performing an experiment to see if it works. If this is unclear, I am happy to explain what I mean.
QUOTE (Investigator+)
Thankyou. This is humor game yes? ok. If sow stupidity become negative. If sow negativity become stupid. If sow stupidity and negativity together become internet poster. If sow internet posts become either stupid or negative or both. If stupid and/or negative internet poster then is full qualified to post on physforum. Is ok funny for humor game? Thankyou.
That's about it. It is only the clever and/or positive contributors (they exist!) that draw me back to this forum.
-C2.
-C2.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 30 2012, 11:27 PM)
Ed,
If the Einstein equations are complete then there is no way to get a warp drive. The knowledge content of our physical sciences tells us that warp drive is impossible. We have to assume there is something that we don't know that will make it possible. For that reason, it is a good idea to start by adding a driving term to the Einstein equations, and then performing an experiment to see if it works. If this is unclear, I am happy to explain what I mean.
No it doesn't YOU just fail to understand.
correction
If the Einstein equations are complete then there is no way to get a warp drive. The knowledge content of our physical sciences tells us that warp drive is impossible. We have to assume there is something that we don't know that will make it possible. For that reason, it is a good idea to start by adding a driving term to the Einstein equations, and then performing an experiment to see if it works. If this is unclear, I am happy to explain what I mean.
No it doesn't YOU just fail to understand.
correction
QUOTE (Ed Wood+Mar 31 2012, 02:06 AM)
No it doesn't just fail to understand.
Huh? What "it" doesn't understand?
Huh? What "it" doesn't understand?
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 30 2012, 10:40 PM)
I shall make war upon those who are obstacles to future technology, to innovation and to creativity.
Then declare war on yourself, ignoramus.
Think of the cumulative time-waste you've created via this inane thread;- a veritable hinderance to any conceivable advancement in the sphere of physics.
I've already stated;- Extended-Cavity Semiconductor lasers/quantum dot LED's, operate in wavelength sweep parameters akin to what you've suggested ...... do these emission devices fly-off the test bench? ..... No, imbecile.
Inane nonsense shitting coupled to an uncanny ability to avoid fact, make you the 'special person' others see you as;- I'd rather be thought 'special' by contracting penis cancer, than to suffer the eternal humiliation of being a grossly overbroiled fucktard like you.
Then declare war on yourself, ignoramus.
Think of the cumulative time-waste you've created via this inane thread;- a veritable hinderance to any conceivable advancement in the sphere of physics.
I've already stated;- Extended-Cavity Semiconductor lasers/quantum dot LED's, operate in wavelength sweep parameters akin to what you've suggested ...... do these emission devices fly-off the test bench? ..... No, imbecile.
Inane nonsense shitting coupled to an uncanny ability to avoid fact, make you the 'special person' others see you as;- I'd rather be thought 'special' by contracting penis cancer, than to suffer the eternal humiliation of being a grossly overbroiled fucktard like you.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 02:38 AM)
Then declare war on yourself, ignoramus.
Think of the cumulative time-waste you've created via this inane thread;- a veritable hinderance to any conceivable advancement in the sphere of physics.
I've already stated;- Extended-Cavity Semiconductor lasers/quantum dot LED's, operate in wavelength sweep parameters akin to what you've suggested ...... do these emission devices fly-off the test bench? ..... No, imbecile.
Inane nonsense shitting coupled to an uncanny ability to avoid fact, make you the 'special person' others see you as;- I'd rather be thought 'special' by contracting penis cancer, than to suffer the eternal humiliation of being a grossly overbroiled fucktard like you.
Wasted time? Do you think that solving the Einstein equations is going to lead to a warp drive? Does your pencil and paper fly of your desk?
Are you going to build a ten dimensional experiment so you can use superstring theory?
Hint! Hint! The space-time continuum/quantum vacuum is, first and foremost, a support system for characteristics of light. You have to use light (in some clever way) to induce a curvature in space-time. A large enough df/dt will do the job.
You are lucky that my universal translator bleeped out most of what you said. Or I would have been very cross with you, you little seething human.
Think of the cumulative time-waste you've created via this inane thread;- a veritable hinderance to any conceivable advancement in the sphere of physics.
I've already stated;- Extended-Cavity Semiconductor lasers/quantum dot LED's, operate in wavelength sweep parameters akin to what you've suggested ...... do these emission devices fly-off the test bench? ..... No, imbecile.
Inane nonsense shitting coupled to an uncanny ability to avoid fact, make you the 'special person' others see you as;- I'd rather be thought 'special' by contracting penis cancer, than to suffer the eternal humiliation of being a grossly overbroiled fucktard like you.
Wasted time? Do you think that solving the Einstein equations is going to lead to a warp drive? Does your pencil and paper fly of your desk?
Are you going to build a ten dimensional experiment so you can use superstring theory?
Hint! Hint! The space-time continuum/quantum vacuum is, first and foremost, a support system for characteristics of light. You have to use light (in some clever way) to induce a curvature in space-time. A large enough df/dt will do the job.
You are lucky that my universal translator bleeped out most of what you said. Or I would have been very cross with you, you little seething human.
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 31 2012, 04:39 AM)
Wasted time? Do you think that solving the Einstein equations is going to lead to a warp drive? Does your pencil and paper fly of your desk?
Are you going to build a ten dimensional experiment so you can use superstring theory?
Hint! Hint! The space-time continuum/quantum vacuum is, first and foremost, a support system for characteristics of light. You have to use light (in some clever way) to induce a curvature in space-time. A large enough df/dt will do the job.
You are lucky that my universal translator bleeped out most of what you said. Or I would have been very cross with you, you little seething human.
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
Are you going to build a ten dimensional experiment so you can use superstring theory?
Hint! Hint! The space-time continuum/quantum vacuum is, first and foremost, a support system for characteristics of light. You have to use light (in some clever way) to induce a curvature in space-time. A large enough df/dt will do the job.
You are lucky that my universal translator bleeped out most of what you said. Or I would have been very cross with you, you little seething human.
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 04:47 AM)
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
What will you do with your spare microseconds when you are banned off this forum?
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 04:47 AM)
See, you are indeed mentally inept, an embarrassment to humanity ...... delusional fuckup and general pathetic type;- go make-up codswallop elsewhere, twat.
OK I'm not getting a clear signal from you. Can you try to explain what the physics community is doing to pursue warp theory, and why you think your approach will work?
QUOTE (Mazulu+Mar 31 2012, 06:46 AM)
OK I'm not getting a clear signal from you. Can you try to explain what the physics community is doing to pursue warp theory, and why you think your approach will work?
Clear signal???
I agree, as yet, far as I know, very lttle cash has been squandered on space-warp research. In reality I believe this to be justified since inadequate underlying physics exists.
For my part;- I'm just some crank who oozes rad' ideas, with no illusions of being touched by God/ET's; therefore, don't require a trash-can fulla antipsychotics to successfully integrate with society.
If you really want to make a difference, go get educated and exercise your current imagination beyond that of a silly twerp.
Clear signal???
I agree, as yet, far as I know, very lttle cash has been squandered on space-warp research. In reality I believe this to be justified since inadequate underlying physics exists.
For my part;- I'm just some crank who oozes rad' ideas, with no illusions of being touched by God/ET's; therefore, don't require a trash-can fulla antipsychotics to successfully integrate with society.
If you really want to make a difference, go get educated and exercise your current imagination beyond that of a silly twerp.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 10:09 AM)
Clear signal???
I agree, as yet, far as I know, very lttle cash has been squandered on space-warp research. In reality I believe this to be justified since inadequate underlying physics exists.
For my part;- I'm just some crank who oozes rad' ideas, with no illusions of being touched by God/ET's; therefore, don't require a trash-can fulla antipsychotics to successfully integrate with society.
If you really want to make a difference, go get educated and exercise your current imagination beyond that of a silly twerp.
No drugs! You take no drugs at all? No mushrooms? No medicinal marijuana? Hard to believe ....
I agree, as yet, far as I know, very lttle cash has been squandered on space-warp research. In reality I believe this to be justified since inadequate underlying physics exists.
For my part;- I'm just some crank who oozes rad' ideas, with no illusions of being touched by God/ET's; therefore, don't require a trash-can fulla antipsychotics to successfully integrate with society.
If you really want to make a difference, go get educated and exercise your current imagination beyond that of a silly twerp.
No drugs! You take no drugs at all? No mushrooms? No medicinal marijuana? Hard to believe ....
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Mar 31 2012, 10:56 AM)
No drugs! You take no drugs at all? No mushrooms? No medicinal marijuana? Hard to believe ....
Actually, I drink heavily and smoke high tar tobacco ....... draw your own conclusions.
Actually, I drink heavily and smoke high tar tobacco ....... draw your own conclusions.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Mar 30 2012, 08:19 PM)
No No No!
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
Thats exactly what iv been trying to explain to all these physicists and mathematicians.
You just explained the nature of the universe.
Now write the equation and collect the nobel prize.
If you show stupidity, you <beep> negativity.
Negativity might be the answer, for if you heaped up negativity, somewhere else there must be an abundance of positivity.
The positivity will flow toward the negativity and you use that potential as a motive.
Thats exactly what iv been trying to explain to all these physicists and mathematicians.
You just explained the nature of the universe.
Now write the equation and collect the nobel prize.
Oh there's a catch you have to share it with me 
Duh, wrong;- negativity + negativity = positivity, simple math logic.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 12:35 PM)
Duh, wrong;- negativity + negativity = positivity, simple math logic.
Dah Your no Lady
Dah Your no Lady
The reason that this theory is rejected is because it works on the principle of what I call equalization and is commonly known as diffusion.
The problem with diffusion is that part of the equation is missing.
Empty space has a profound affect on matter!
The problem with diffusion is that part of the equation is missing.
Empty space has a profound affect on matter!
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Mar 31 2012, 01:00 PM)
The reason that this theory is rejected is because it works on the principle of what I call equalization and is commonly known as diffusion.
The problem with diffusion is that part of the equation is missing.
Empty space has a profound affect on matter!
No its because it's silly.
The problem with diffusion is that part of the equation is missing.
Empty space has a profound affect on matter!
No its because it's silly.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Mar 31 2012, 12:35 PM)
Duh, wrong;- negativity + negativity = positivity, simple math logic.
No negativity times negativity equals a positive. But not "positivity", but an area covered thick/thin with negativity.
I would share a Nobel with you all. So don't panic.
I really thought the proof that a planet's rotation speed depends on it's atmosphere might earn the Nobel for that is an amazing concept (and already gaining support).
No negativity times negativity equals a positive. But not "positivity", but an area covered thick/thin with negativity.
I would share a Nobel with you all. So don't panic.
I really thought the proof that a planet's rotation speed depends on it's atmosphere might earn the Nobel for that is an amazing concept (and already gaining support).
Well I don't disagree with you about planet rotation. Obviously a planet rotates because it began life in a vortex of dust and gas and most are still spinning as a result of there birth.
There's so many variables like contentel drift . Does the planet have a moon or moons? Obviously water has an affect especially when there's a moon involved.
Your a Silly horse MR ED!
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Mar 31 2012, 01:18 PM)
Well I don't disagree with you about planet rotation. Obviously a planet rotates because it began life in a vortex of dust and gas and most are still spinning as a result of there birth.
Without an atmosphere a planet soon stops spinning. eg the Moon, Mercury, Venus (lost then regained atmosphere, now speeding up backwards)
then Earth and Mars (little atmosphere). Gassy ones roaring Jupiter 9 hours, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus.
Talking about these things on the mercury thread.
Without an atmosphere a planet soon stops spinning. eg the Moon, Mercury, Venus (lost then regained atmosphere, now speeding up backwards)
then Earth and Mars (little atmosphere). Gassy ones roaring Jupiter 9 hours, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus.
Talking about these things on the mercury thread.
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Mar 31 2012, 01:18 PM)
Well I don't disagree with you about planet rotation. Obviously a planet rotates because it began life in a vortex of dust and gas and most are still spinning as a result of there birth.
True true, but these are secondary.
True true, but these are secondary.
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