Inside Hezbollah | Party of God
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Part 1 - Intro
Cnn report that looks at Hezbollah and what they are all about
A slightly biased look, but still interesting.
Part 2 - Terror Tactics
Tactics used by Hezbollah both in war and in through terrorism.
Comments how Hezbollah is the Middle Eastern nation to defeat Israel in War.
Part 3 - The Leader
The Leader of Hezbollah, an inside scoop into what the man is all about and how he rose to power.
Part 4 - The Followers
Most shocking part is a little girl that adores Hezbollah and outlines
that she enjoys it when she see's Israeli's dead.
part 5 - Fear and Loathing
An Israeli perspective of the conflict between their neighbours Hezbollah
part 6 - The Hunt
About the Terrorism that Hezbollah has been involved in.
I know muslims as a general rule are good people but it seems there will be no peace in the middle east until, at the very least, Hezbollah is completely wiped out.
QUOTE (555Joshua+Jul 28 2006, 05:20 AM)
I know muslims as a general rule are good people but it seems there will be no peace in the middle east until, at the very least, Hezbollah is completely wiped out.
Until ALL the people of the Mideast take a stand against the terrorists in their midst, the terrorists will have a safe place to hide and plot. I read/watch all the time that the terrorists have "hijacked" the Muslim religion and that "most" Muslims do not support the terrorists acts! Yet they do very little, if anything at all, to stop/hinder/expose them!
If the Muslims really want the world to believe that they do not support the terrorists (and I do believe that most do oppose them), they need to make an ACTIVE stand against the terrorist! not just give lip-service to the cause but organize demonstrations against them, put them on trial, kick them out of their countries!
Religions are not very accommodating to being hijacked! yet the Muslims seem to be pretty docile while these terrorists bastardize/corrupt their religion for the cause of killing innocent peoples!
It reminds me of an old saying... "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!" The west can do very little until the people of the Mideast stand up and act themselves against the terrorists!
Krreagan
Until ALL the people of the Mideast take a stand against the terrorists in their midst, the terrorists will have a safe place to hide and plot. I read/watch all the time that the terrorists have "hijacked" the Muslim religion and that "most" Muslims do not support the terrorists acts! Yet they do very little, if anything at all, to stop/hinder/expose them!
If the Muslims really want the world to believe that they do not support the terrorists (and I do believe that most do oppose them), they need to make an ACTIVE stand against the terrorist! not just give lip-service to the cause but organize demonstrations against them, put them on trial, kick them out of their countries!
Religions are not very accommodating to being hijacked! yet the Muslims seem to be pretty docile while these terrorists bastardize/corrupt their religion for the cause of killing innocent peoples!
It reminds me of an old saying... "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!" The west can do very little until the people of the Mideast stand up and act themselves against the terrorists!
Krreagan
Interesting thread. I won't go into much detail, but I will say a few things here. First, let me point out that I do not endorse, condone, or appreciate any terrorist activity or organization. In fact, I fight against them, when I am asked to.
However, it is important to note a couple of things. The masses of people who get involved in terrorist organizations are not inherently bad people. They are re-programmed, if you will, to be bad people. Sometimes they are even forced to do horrible acts, because if they don't they will die along with their family members. The belief is that they feel compelled to do the acts, where only they will die, but their family will live. Many of them are told lies from an early age, they see horrible acts against their friends and families, and they are told that it was another group of people who did the acts. The terrorist organizations are essentially run by a small minority of very dangerous and sociopathic, but extremely influential people. They use every tactic to their advantage. They rise to power, many times through legitimate means, and then sway others slowly to their cause.
Many people who commit acts of terrorism would probably tell you that they entered into the situation thinking they were doing something good, or necessary for their situation. The real fight is to enhance education in the regions where terrorism thrives. That could be considered parts of the Middle East, or it could be considered some rural towns in the deep south of the Unitied States. Education against the acts of terrorism and information about the organizations involved will deter a certain percentage of younger people joining the ranks. During the Christian Crusades, the "terrorsists" were usually of Christian persuasion. They would destroy people, property, and communities in the name of Christ.
The bottom line is education is the key. The educators must have credibility (like a college professor wouldn't be trusted if he / she was not certified through industry, academic degrees, etc.). In this case, the credibility will come from people from the same culture as the potential terrorists. I agree with the earlier post that states that the Muslim community needs to take action against the terrorists in their midst. Western influence will work to a degree, but the real payoff will come from other Muslim people who can offer the guidance necessary to their folks.
Just my humble opinion.
However, it is important to note a couple of things. The masses of people who get involved in terrorist organizations are not inherently bad people. They are re-programmed, if you will, to be bad people. Sometimes they are even forced to do horrible acts, because if they don't they will die along with their family members. The belief is that they feel compelled to do the acts, where only they will die, but their family will live. Many of them are told lies from an early age, they see horrible acts against their friends and families, and they are told that it was another group of people who did the acts. The terrorist organizations are essentially run by a small minority of very dangerous and sociopathic, but extremely influential people. They use every tactic to their advantage. They rise to power, many times through legitimate means, and then sway others slowly to their cause.
Many people who commit acts of terrorism would probably tell you that they entered into the situation thinking they were doing something good, or necessary for their situation. The real fight is to enhance education in the regions where terrorism thrives. That could be considered parts of the Middle East, or it could be considered some rural towns in the deep south of the Unitied States. Education against the acts of terrorism and information about the organizations involved will deter a certain percentage of younger people joining the ranks. During the Christian Crusades, the "terrorsists" were usually of Christian persuasion. They would destroy people, property, and communities in the name of Christ.
The bottom line is education is the key. The educators must have credibility (like a college professor wouldn't be trusted if he / she was not certified through industry, academic degrees, etc.). In this case, the credibility will come from people from the same culture as the potential terrorists. I agree with the earlier post that states that the Muslim community needs to take action against the terrorists in their midst. Western influence will work to a degree, but the real payoff will come from other Muslim people who can offer the guidance necessary to their folks.
Just my humble opinion.
QUOTE (krreagan+Jul 28 2006, 08:49 AM)
Until ALL the people of the Mideast take a stand against the terrorists in their midst, the terrorists will have a safe place to hide and plot. I read/watch all the time that the terrorists have "hijacked" the Muslim religion and that "most" Muslims do not support the terrorists acts! Yet they do very little, if anything at all, to stop/hinder/expose them!
Ah yes, but when they have a gun and you have a stick you might think twice before messing with them.
Ah yes, but when they have a gun and you have a stick you might think twice before messing with them.
QUOTE (555Joshua+Jul 28 2006, 09:46 AM)
Ah yes, but when they have a gun and you have a stick you might think twice before messing with them.
No one ever said it would be easy! If the people _really_ don't want them there (as opposed to tolerating them) they will find a way eventually, history has shown this many times!
Krreagan
No one ever said it would be easy! If the people _really_ don't want them there (as opposed to tolerating them) they will find a way eventually, history has shown this many times!
Krreagan
How many kids overcome that bolly in school? Very few. They're just to damn scared to do anything. That's intimidation for ya. And when considering you'd need a lot of muslims to overcome the bollies of the Mid East, you can easily see how that's going to be impossible. If you want them to stand up for themselves you have to go over there (to the danger zone) and encourage them.
QUOTE (555Joshua+Jul 28 2006, 05:22 PM)
How many kids overcome that bolly in school? Very few. They're just to damn scared to do anything. That's intimidation for ya. And when considering you'd need a lot of muslims to overcome the bollies of the Mid East, you can easily see how that's going to be impossible. If you want them to stand up for themselves you have to go over there (to the danger zone) and encourage them.
I agree Joshua. Hezbollah, like every funded supported terrorist organization, is kind of like the mafia here (or in Russia)). You don't mess with them unless you have or feel you can get the upper hand. They are meaner than you. More heartless. Have no conscience for life at all, yours or their own. Not 'afraid' to go much further down the hole of hideousness than you me or any other self-respecting human. They're like the Borg, or fire ants or killer bees - no thought for their own life at all, only the mission. Nothing else. Very very scary. Only when you have been terrorized and bombed and killed enough times, like Israel, do you finally say it's enough and try to do something about it. And that's if you already have the means to. Iraqis don't in their situation, even with the U.S. there. Israel does.
If the 'West' ever gets through this, let's sincerely hope that the lesson was learned. We can't afford a foreign policy that manufactures any more enemies.
I agree Joshua. Hezbollah, like every funded supported terrorist organization, is kind of like the mafia here (or in Russia)). You don't mess with them unless you have or feel you can get the upper hand. They are meaner than you. More heartless. Have no conscience for life at all, yours or their own. Not 'afraid' to go much further down the hole of hideousness than you me or any other self-respecting human. They're like the Borg, or fire ants or killer bees - no thought for their own life at all, only the mission. Nothing else. Very very scary. Only when you have been terrorized and bombed and killed enough times, like Israel, do you finally say it's enough and try to do something about it. And that's if you already have the means to. Iraqis don't in their situation, even with the U.S. there. Israel does.
If the 'West' ever gets through this, let's sincerely hope that the lesson was learned. We can't afford a foreign policy that manufactures any more enemies.
Well said Krreagan. Maybe also Muslims as a whole are too passive/aggressive. Too peace loving to raise war against their own kind that defile their religious beliefs.
Hmph. The borg. I like that.
Hmph. The borg. I like that.
QUOTE (555Joshua+Jul 28 2006, 10:22 AM)
How many kids overcome that bolly in school? Very few. They're just to damn scared to do anything. That's intimidation for ya. And when considering you'd need a lot of muslims to overcome the bollies of the Mid East, you can easily see how that's going to be impossible. If you want them to stand up for themselves you have to go over there (to the danger zone) and encourage them.
I've seen inner-city neighborhoods rid themselves of drug-dealers & gangs without the help of the local police! It's not easy! There are few groups more nasty than drug dealers and gangs. The point I'm trying to make is that just doing nothing is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution!
Krreagan
I've seen inner-city neighborhoods rid themselves of drug-dealers & gangs without the help of the local police! It's not easy! There are few groups more nasty than drug dealers and gangs. The point I'm trying to make is that just doing nothing is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution!
Krreagan
Or the Muslims could be lying to you and they really are not at all interested in stopping the terrorists. Hate to be cynical but do you think they would put Muslims on the TV that were anything other than representing what they want you to think they are like.
Do you really trust the media that much.
Do you really trust the media that much.
QUOTE (Madkite+Jul 29 2006, 02:00 AM)
Or the Muslims could be lying to you and they really are not at all interested in stopping the terrorists. Hate to be cynical but do you think they would put Muslims on the TV that were anything other than representing what they want you to think they are like.
Actually, Yes! I have seen several "interviews" with Muslims that back the terrorists! Like all militia forces they have to have the backing of significant percentages of the population they claim to represent! It may or may not be a majority, but it's not a trivial percentage either.
The "free" media seems to have a vary combined agenda a lot of the time which seems very odd for something that is supposed to be made up of "independent" news outlets. And most of the time it is more interested in telling you what to think about the news it report than reporting the news itself.
There is no source of information you can truly trust. The only way to know if anything is true is if there is enough evidence to make it most likely.
Just because there is no good alternative does not mean you should believe what you have. A lie is still a lie and will lead to bad decisions all the same.
Most people have gut reactions when they see someone. A gut reaction isn't a bad thing, its when you have a bad gut reaction because someone is of another race, and then you try and justify it. Someone who acknowledges they have a gut reaction towards a race, but realize that it may not be something that is true, and have an open mind to not apply stereotypes, and give the person a chance. And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals. Maybe you can not, but others can. The imaginary world is to think people will behave and think just like our stereotypes of them are. And thats the imaginary world racists live in!
Keep telling yourself that.
Keep telling yourself that.
The imaginary world is to think people will behave and think just like our stereotypes of them are
So why did these stereotypes form in the first place. Could it be because that IS how most of them behave.
They usually have that reaction because of experience. They do not need to justify it because they were forced to be like that because that is how it is.
Why do you think the people in Hizbullah will fight fanatically. Because they are evil racists? Or haters? Or because there hate is well justified in there eyes as they lived through and with what Israel did when they were children and as they grew up.
Muslims will not have your namby pamby PC owww we cant say they it's racist attitude. They will say what they see instead to making excuses for people.
There is NO SOLUTION. The UN forces will be attacked as Zionist controlled forces and be seen as in collaboration with the Jew. They will say it allowed to as it is not a taboo to them. They will hate the Jew and the generation growing up there now will hate the Jew too and it will go on forever like this.
You cannot crush or stop Hizbullah as the fight will be taken up by the next lot after you have killed this lot.
Both sides are bigoted and racist and hate one another.
You just can't see it. What is still more worrying is the UN will probably be in an Iraq situation and so it will encourage more terrorism in Europe. What do you think the children growing up in Iraq now will think of America and the UK. It would not surprise me to see a lot more terrorism in the future when all those children have grown up.
Of course if you tell people to treat everybody as an individual and preach love and peace it will happen.
Well, I have seen it before........so its possible.
Because thats how SOME of 'them' have behaved. Stereotypes form for a reason, but just because they are formed doesn't mean they apply to everyone. I am a white Canadian with British blood. If someone were to stereotype my behavior, even though you are white british doesn't mean it would be true. Every person is different, and stereotyping is pretty retarded!
Because thats how SOME of 'them' have behaved. Stereotypes form for a reason, but just because they are formed doesn't mean they apply to everyone. I am a white Canadian with British blood. If someone were to stereotype my behavior, even though you are white british doesn't mean it would be true. Every person is different, and stereotyping is pretty retarded!
Both sides are bigoted and racist and hate one another.
You just can't see it. What is still more worrying is the UN will probably be in an Iraq situation and so it will encourage more terrorism in Europe. What do you think the children growing up in Iraq now will think of America and the UK. It would not surprise me to see a lot more terrorism in the future when all those children have grown up.
Oh, I can see that both sides are bigoted and racist. Doesn't make it right, and there is nothing wrong with thinking that people can overcome this hate and someday resolve this conflict. Look at the attitude changes in America over the past 200 years. They have changed from being openly and institutionally bigotted to not being like that. There are still many racists in the U.S. but nothing like it was 200 years ago. Hope is not a terrible thing.
And your right, what is going on now is only going to create more terrorism in the future! Thats the sad thing!
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
It may be your opinion that a police state is the only way different races can live together, but you have no proof whatsoever of it
So why do we need so many anti discrimination laws and anti free speech laws and laws where THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SAY THE TRUTH. Yes I live in a country where laws like that have existed for ages. I live in a country where the police are more interested in political crime than muggers or rapists. Where you are assumed to be guilty under certain law and have to prove your innocence. Where everything requires a certificate or a qualification or approval or a licence. Where vote rigging is covered up and the police tell people to take down there national flag. Where we are not aloud the right to arms. Where the police stop protests and do not give permission because they do not like the subject. Where they ban you from protesting in notable places. Where the knife is blamed for knife crime not the people committing the crime.
What sort of country can arrest someone for having an opinion and saying it. What sort of country can make an opinion illegal.
A totalitarian country. A country with a police state.
Most of those laws are aimed at preventing racial tension and racism so MULTICULTURALISM DOES REQUIRE TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE MEASURES TO STOP ALL DISAPPROVING VOICES AND ACTIONS EVIDENTLY OR IT WILL FALL TO BITS. Why else would they take all these evil measures if they thought it would work with free speech and wrights to discriminate as nobody would want to in this loverly and harmonious multilateral heaven which has been created for no conceivable reason except to destroy racial integrity and have pseudo slavery.
I have never lived in the UK, so I can't speak for how it is there, but my answer to the part of your quote that I bolded is because if discrimination. You talk about equility. In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts. These laws are needed to protect people from discrimination. If there weren't people who would abuse other people, there would be no need to protect them.
I have never lived in the UK, so I can't speak for how it is there, but my answer to the part of your quote that I bolded is because if discrimination. You talk about equility. In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts. These laws are needed to protect people from discrimination. If there weren't people who would abuse other people, there would be no need to protect them.
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
Please do share your opinion on the differences of the sexes. Please do, I would love to hear this!
Which has NOTHING to do with Anti-Descrimination laws.
Murder is Murder, its NOT a form of descrimination.
That has to do with doing away with unfair employment, Lending, housing practices etc etc.
Arthur
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences
There are philological differences on average. Why would there not be?
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences
There are philological differences on average. Why would there not be?
In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts.
Murder is murder. It has nothing to do with discrimination like adoucetty said.
Please also provide some proof of that.
Sorry, just a huge injustice against an entire race.
Here is an example of discrimination in the United states from less than 30 years ago. For anyone who follows football (the American kind) they will know of Warren Moon. He was quite a good NFL quarterback. He was the Rose Bowl MVP in his last collegette game. He went undrafted in the NFL draft because he was a black quarterback who refused to switch positions. He had to come to Canada and play in the Canadian Football League for a few years to 'prove' himself a compitent quarterback. He is the only football player to be in both the CFL and NFL hall of fame. Now, I am not suggesting that in sports they need to set up affirmative action programs, but sometimes there needs to be a way to make it fair, even if the rules technically make it unfair. In the 60's many NCAA colleges didn't want to have black basketball players. They claimed that they weren't intelligent enough to lead a team. Many times over that has been proved wrong! There are several more examples. Affirmative action sucks....and its not neccessarily a fair solution, but the past has shown us that it is neccessary or else more discrimination would take place.
Sorry, just a huge injustice against an entire race.
Here is an example of discrimination in the United states from less than 30 years ago. For anyone who follows football (the American kind) they will know of Warren Moon. He was quite a good NFL quarterback. He was the Rose Bowl MVP in his last collegette game. He went undrafted in the NFL draft because he was a black quarterback who refused to switch positions. He had to come to Canada and play in the Canadian Football League for a few years to 'prove' himself a compitent quarterback. He is the only football player to be in both the CFL and NFL hall of fame. Now, I am not suggesting that in sports they need to set up affirmative action programs, but sometimes there needs to be a way to make it fair, even if the rules technically make it unfair. In the 60's many NCAA colleges didn't want to have black basketball players. They claimed that they weren't intelligent enough to lead a team. Many times over that has been proved wrong! There are several more examples. Affirmative action sucks....and its not neccessarily a fair solution, but the past has shown us that it is neccessary or else more discrimination would take place.
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
I was expecting you to go on a rant about men being more intelligent. Glad that was not what you were doing.
You can't force people to change how they think. You can only bread resentment by doing that.
Actually, Yes! I have seen several "interviews" with Muslims that back the terrorists! Like all militia forces they have to have the backing of significant percentages of the population they claim to represent! It may or may not be a majority, but it's not a trivial percentage either.
QUOTE (Madkite+Jul 29 2006, 02:00 AM)
Do you really trust the media that much.
I don't trust any single media source, but I do trust (with a grain of salt) the free media system in general. I take it you do not trust the media... then may I ask where you get the information that you do trust?
Krreagan
I don't trust any single media source, but I do trust (with a grain of salt) the free media system in general. I take it you do not trust the media... then may I ask where you get the information that you do trust?
Krreagan
QUOTE
I take it you do not trust the media... then may I ask where you get the information that you do trust?
The "free" media seems to have a vary combined agenda a lot of the time which seems very odd for something that is supposed to be made up of "independent" news outlets. And most of the time it is more interested in telling you what to think about the news it report than reporting the news itself.
There is no source of information you can truly trust. The only way to know if anything is true is if there is enough evidence to make it most likely.
Just because there is no good alternative does not mean you should believe what you have. A lie is still a lie and will lead to bad decisions all the same.
It's a good idea to read from newspapers all over the world. There are good global op/ed sites too. It at least lessens the myopia.
QUOTE (soundhertz+Jul 29 2006, 10:17 PM)
It's a good idea to read from newspapers all over the world. There are good global op/ed sites too. It at least lessens the myopia.
Google news is a good site with a lot of different perspectives.
Krreagan
Google news is a good site with a lot of different perspectives.
Krreagan
QUOTE (krreagan+)
I've seen inner-city neighborhoods rid themselves of drug-dealers & gangs without the help of the local police!
Well, how many towns have rid themselves of the mafia?
Well, how many towns have rid themselves of the mafia?
Hi everyone,
There are a lot of good ideas toward action and alot of good arguments against such actions here. It's certainly a difficult problem. My biggest disappointment with one of your first points (why doesn't the majority of the 'good' Muslim community step up to the plate) is my feeling that if there was a surge of violence perpetrated by say a radical Christian group that has decided to kill say 'all homosexuals' or maybe all 'pro-choice people', I feel very strongly that the Pope (among many other high ranking clergy) would be screaming "NO, No, No! This is not what the church stands for and those who partake are not members of the church that I am the high vicar of!"
I have not seen any Muslims of this stature speaking out loud and clear.
Just thinking out loud,
Peace,
Ron
There are a lot of good ideas toward action and alot of good arguments against such actions here. It's certainly a difficult problem. My biggest disappointment with one of your first points (why doesn't the majority of the 'good' Muslim community step up to the plate) is my feeling that if there was a surge of violence perpetrated by say a radical Christian group that has decided to kill say 'all homosexuals' or maybe all 'pro-choice people', I feel very strongly that the Pope (among many other high ranking clergy) would be screaming "NO, No, No! This is not what the church stands for and those who partake are not members of the church that I am the high vicar of!"
I have not seen any Muslims of this stature speaking out loud and clear.
Just thinking out loud,
Peace,
Ron
You're not looking, though. There are plenty who are screaming for peace, but they're being ignored on both sides.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Jul 31 2006, 06:57 PM)
You're not looking, though. There are plenty who are screaming for peace, but they're being ignored on both sides.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
El_Machinae,
Right on. That is EXACTLY what causes strife, oppositions, parties, sects, and warfare.
Hizbullah actually means Hizb (part/sect/fraction/group) and Allah (Gods name for Muslims).
When combined- Group of Allah.
In their religion, NO ONE is allowed to attack them, without retaliation.
Thats what they are doing.
This started back in 1948. These are long term issues, than what most people tend to look to.
Too many wrongs, very little rights.
Hypocrites DO exist. Those chanting "human rights", in the authorities, while not doing ANYTHING civil and humane to contribute to keep "sacred" human life...ALIVE.
Such as the WOMEN/BABIES/CHIDLREN/ELDERLY..
Theres nothing new in this.
HUFF.....The setback of "democracies" at times most PARAMOUNT.
Such as war.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
El_Machinae,
Right on. That is EXACTLY what causes strife, oppositions, parties, sects, and warfare.
Hizbullah actually means Hizb (part/sect/fraction/group) and Allah (Gods name for Muslims).
When combined- Group of Allah.
In their religion, NO ONE is allowed to attack them, without retaliation.
Thats what they are doing.
This started back in 1948. These are long term issues, than what most people tend to look to.
Too many wrongs, very little rights.
Hypocrites DO exist. Those chanting "human rights", in the authorities, while not doing ANYTHING civil and humane to contribute to keep "sacred" human life...ALIVE.
Such as the WOMEN/BABIES/CHIDLREN/ELDERLY..
Theres nothing new in this.
HUFF.....The setback of "democracies" at times most PARAMOUNT.
Such as war.
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Jul 31 2006, 05:57 PM)
You're not looking, though. There are plenty who are screaming for peace, but they're being ignored on both sides.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
People understand and cope with the world by defining people in to group's. Do you go up to dodgy looking people that look like the are part of a drugs gang and ask them for information or pick the person who looks safe and respectable. I know who 99.9% of people would pick an you could argue all day that the respectable person might be a rapist or something like that but 99% of the time the safest and best choice would be the bigoted one.
It is how the human mind deals with everything it encounters from car makes to animals. It is hard wired in and you cannot change that.
In reality we NEVER treat people or anything else as individuals. To think people ever will is just wishful thinking and a refusal to deal with the facts of human nature. Thus all solutions based on such thinking WILL FAIL and only cause more suffering for all concerned.
Deal with reality not your imaginary world where people behave and think how you would like.
The WORST thing that people can do is to lump people into catagories. Especially "them" and "us". Because that ruins everything.
People understand and cope with the world by defining people in to group's. Do you go up to dodgy looking people that look like the are part of a drugs gang and ask them for information or pick the person who looks safe and respectable. I know who 99.9% of people would pick an you could argue all day that the respectable person might be a rapist or something like that but 99% of the time the safest and best choice would be the bigoted one.
It is how the human mind deals with everything it encounters from car makes to animals. It is hard wired in and you cannot change that.
In reality we NEVER treat people or anything else as individuals. To think people ever will is just wishful thinking and a refusal to deal with the facts of human nature. Thus all solutions based on such thinking WILL FAIL and only cause more suffering for all concerned.
Deal with reality not your imaginary world where people behave and think how you would like.
QUOTE
People understand and cope with the world by defining people in to group's. Do you go up to dodgy looking people that look like the are part of a drugs gang and ask them for information or pick the person who looks safe and respectable. I know who 99.9% of people would pick an you could argue all day that the respectable person might be a rapist or something like that but 99% of the time the safest and best choice would be the bigoted one.
It is how the human mind deals with everything it encounters from car makes to animals. It is hard wired in and you cannot change that.
In reality we NEVER treat people or anything else as individuals. To think people ever will is just wishful thinking and a refusal to deal with the facts of human nature. Thus all solutions based on such thinking WILL FAIL and only cause more suffering for all concerned.
Deal with reality not your imaginary world where people behave and think how you would like.
It is how the human mind deals with everything it encounters from car makes to animals. It is hard wired in and you cannot change that.
In reality we NEVER treat people or anything else as individuals. To think people ever will is just wishful thinking and a refusal to deal with the facts of human nature. Thus all solutions based on such thinking WILL FAIL and only cause more suffering for all concerned.
Deal with reality not your imaginary world where people behave and think how you would like.
Most people have gut reactions when they see someone. A gut reaction isn't a bad thing, its when you have a bad gut reaction because someone is of another race, and then you try and justify it. Someone who acknowledges they have a gut reaction towards a race, but realize that it may not be something that is true, and have an open mind to not apply stereotypes, and give the person a chance. And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals. Maybe you can not, but others can. The imaginary world is to think people will behave and think just like our stereotypes of them are. And thats the imaginary world racists live in!
QUOTE (Steveo+Aug 2 2006, 06:56 PM)
Most people have gut reactions when they see someone. A gut reaction isn't a bad thing, its when you have a bad gut reaction because someone is of another race, and then you try and justify it. Someone who acknowledges they have a gut reaction towards a race, but realize that it may not be something that is true, and have an open mind to not apply stereotypes, and give the person a chance. And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals. Maybe you can not, but others can. The imaginary world is to think people will behave and think just like our stereotypes of them are. And thats the imaginary world racists live in!
Ditto Steveo.
AND agenda based individuals/orgs...
Ditto Steveo.
AND agenda based individuals/orgs...
QUOTE
And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals.
Keep telling yourself that.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals. |
Keep telling yourself that.
The imaginary world is to think people will behave and think just like our stereotypes of them are
So why did these stereotypes form in the first place. Could it be because that IS how most of them behave.
QUOTE
A gut reaction isn't a bad thing, its when you have a bad gut reaction because someone is of another race, and then you try and justify it.
They usually have that reaction because of experience. They do not need to justify it because they were forced to be like that because that is how it is.
Why do you think the people in Hizbullah will fight fanatically. Because they are evil racists? Or haters? Or because there hate is well justified in there eyes as they lived through and with what Israel did when they were children and as they grew up.
Muslims will not have your namby pamby PC owww we cant say they it's racist attitude. They will say what they see instead to making excuses for people.
There is NO SOLUTION. The UN forces will be attacked as Zionist controlled forces and be seen as in collaboration with the Jew. They will say it allowed to as it is not a taboo to them. They will hate the Jew and the generation growing up there now will hate the Jew too and it will go on forever like this.
You cannot crush or stop Hizbullah as the fight will be taken up by the next lot after you have killed this lot.
Both sides are bigoted and racist and hate one another.
You just can't see it. What is still more worrying is the UN will probably be in an Iraq situation and so it will encourage more terrorism in Europe. What do you think the children growing up in Iraq now will think of America and the UK. It would not surprise me to see a lot more terrorism in the future when all those children have grown up.
Of course if you tell people to treat everybody as an individual and preach love and peace it will happen.
QUOTE
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| And your wrong, many people can treat others as individuals. Keep telling yourself that. |
Well, I have seen it before........so its possible.
QUOTE
So why did these stereotypes form in the first place. Could it be because that IS how most of them behave.
Because thats how SOME of 'them' have behaved. Stereotypes form for a reason, but just because they are formed doesn't mean they apply to everyone. I am a white Canadian with British blood. If someone were to stereotype my behavior, even though you are white british doesn't mean it would be true. Every person is different, and stereotyping is pretty retarded!
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So why did these stereotypes form in the first place. Could it be because that IS how most of them behave. |
Because thats how SOME of 'them' have behaved. Stereotypes form for a reason, but just because they are formed doesn't mean they apply to everyone. I am a white Canadian with British blood. If someone were to stereotype my behavior, even though you are white british doesn't mean it would be true. Every person is different, and stereotyping is pretty retarded!
Both sides are bigoted and racist and hate one another.
You just can't see it. What is still more worrying is the UN will probably be in an Iraq situation and so it will encourage more terrorism in Europe. What do you think the children growing up in Iraq now will think of America and the UK. It would not surprise me to see a lot more terrorism in the future when all those children have grown up.
Oh, I can see that both sides are bigoted and racist. Doesn't make it right, and there is nothing wrong with thinking that people can overcome this hate and someday resolve this conflict. Look at the attitude changes in America over the past 200 years. They have changed from being openly and institutionally bigotted to not being like that. There are still many racists in the U.S. but nothing like it was 200 years ago. Hope is not a terrible thing.
And your right, what is going on now is only going to create more terrorism in the future! Thats the sad thing!
More terrorism means more reaction both within nations and without.
We have done the cultural equivalent of mixing two highly reactive materials like petrol and oxygen and then having sparks fly all around it.
Once the reaction starts only the one with the largest quantity of itself will survive.
Be careful of you mixing of people. Just like volatile substances the only way to stop dangerous reaction is through extreme precautions. And that can be seen in the police state that is effectively either in effect or being created depending where you live. Order is only maintained with a gun and silencing any deriding voice. Order is maintained at the expense of freedom. Soon to include the freedom to have a sovereign nation.
We have done the cultural equivalent of mixing two highly reactive materials like petrol and oxygen and then having sparks fly all around it.
Once the reaction starts only the one with the largest quantity of itself will survive.
Be careful of you mixing of people. Just like volatile substances the only way to stop dangerous reaction is through extreme precautions. And that can be seen in the police state that is effectively either in effect or being created depending where you live. Order is only maintained with a gun and silencing any deriding voice. Order is maintained at the expense of freedom. Soon to include the freedom to have a sovereign nation.
Different cultures are not comparable to gas and oxygen. That is probably the stupidest analogy ever. In places where racial problems exist its because their is either an institutional, or a social inequality in the way one race is treated. The more equality there is between the races the less problems there is.
It may be your opinion that a police state is the only way different races can live together, but you have no proof whatsoever of it.
QUOTE
Be careful of you mixing of people. Just like volatile substances the only way to stop dangerous reaction is through extreme precautions. And that can be seen in the police state that is effectively either in effect or being created depending where you live. Order is only maintained with a gun and silencing any deriding voice. Order is maintained at the expense of freedom. Soon to include the freedom to have a sovereign nation.
It may be your opinion that a police state is the only way different races can live together, but you have no proof whatsoever of it.
I forgot to add, racists are also a MAJOR danger, on any side.
Soo, if they support terrorism, hell its perfect!
BUT if anyone retaliates or speaks out in opposition, "lets kill them, terrorists polluting our Earth!"
Thanks.
Soo, if they support terrorism, hell its perfect!
BUT if anyone retaliates or speaks out in opposition, "lets kill them, terrorists polluting our Earth!"
Thanks.
QUOTE
In places where racial problems exist its because their is either an institutional, or a social inequality in the way one race is treated. The more equality there is between the races the less problems there is.
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| In places where racial problems exist its because their is either an institutional, or a social inequality in the way one race is treated. The more equality there is between the races the less problems there is. |
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
It may be your opinion that a police state is the only way different races can live together, but you have no proof whatsoever of it
So why do we need so many anti discrimination laws and anti free speech laws and laws where THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SAY THE TRUTH. Yes I live in a country where laws like that have existed for ages. I live in a country where the police are more interested in political crime than muggers or rapists. Where you are assumed to be guilty under certain law and have to prove your innocence. Where everything requires a certificate or a qualification or approval or a licence. Where vote rigging is covered up and the police tell people to take down there national flag. Where we are not aloud the right to arms. Where the police stop protests and do not give permission because they do not like the subject. Where they ban you from protesting in notable places. Where the knife is blamed for knife crime not the people committing the crime.
What sort of country can arrest someone for having an opinion and saying it. What sort of country can make an opinion illegal.
A totalitarian country. A country with a police state.
Most of those laws are aimed at preventing racial tension and racism so MULTICULTURALISM DOES REQUIRE TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE MEASURES TO STOP ALL DISAPPROVING VOICES AND ACTIONS EVIDENTLY OR IT WILL FALL TO BITS. Why else would they take all these evil measures if they thought it would work with free speech and wrights to discriminate as nobody would want to in this loverly and harmonious multilateral heaven which has been created for no conceivable reason except to destroy racial integrity and have pseudo slavery.
Madkite,
I and you are not alike, as you know.
BUT having lived in the UK, and studied-worked there, your DEFINITELY right about this:
Thats exact.
Its sad tho.
I and you are not alike, as you know.
BUT having lived in the UK, and studied-worked there, your DEFINITELY right about this:
QUOTE
Yes I live in a country where laws like that have existed for ages. I live in a country where the police are more interested in political crime than muggers or rapists. Where you are assumed to be guilty under certain law and have to prove your innocence. Where everything requires a certificate or a qualification or approval or a licence. Where vote rigging is covered up and the police tell people to take down there national flag. Where we are not aloud the right to arms
Thats exact.
Its sad tho.
QUOTE
So why do we need so many anti discrimination laws and anti free speech laws and laws where THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SAY THE TRUTH. Yes I live in a country where laws like that have existed for ages. I live in a country where the police are more interested in political crime than muggers or rapists. Where you are assumed to be guilty under certain law and have to prove your innocence. Where everything requires a certificate or a qualification or approval or a licence. Where vote rigging is covered up and the police tell people to take down there national flag. Where we are not aloud the right to arms. Where the police stop protests and do not give permission because they do not like the subject. Where they ban you from protesting in notable places. Where the knife is blamed for knife crime not the people committing the crime.
I have never lived in the UK, so I can't speak for how it is there, but my answer to the part of your quote that I bolded is because if discrimination. You talk about equility. In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts. These laws are needed to protect people from discrimination. If there weren't people who would abuse other people, there would be no need to protect them.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So why do we need so many anti discrimination laws and anti free speech laws and laws where THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE AS IT IS ILLEGAL TO SAY THE TRUTH. Yes I live in a country where laws like that have existed for ages. I live in a country where the police are more interested in political crime than muggers or rapists. Where you are assumed to be guilty under certain law and have to prove your innocence. Where everything requires a certificate or a qualification or approval or a licence. Where vote rigging is covered up and the police tell people to take down there national flag. Where we are not aloud the right to arms. Where the police stop protests and do not give permission because they do not like the subject. Where they ban you from protesting in notable places. Where the knife is blamed for knife crime not the people committing the crime. |
I have never lived in the UK, so I can't speak for how it is there, but my answer to the part of your quote that I bolded is because if discrimination. You talk about equility. In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts. These laws are needed to protect people from discrimination. If there weren't people who would abuse other people, there would be no need to protect them.
Well the French Muslims did not like being treated equally did they. Equality is a PC term for squashing the white man and making him the less equal. It is total BS as people are not equal and so there will always be inequality and rich poor divides. The races and sexes are not equal when compared on average and it shows up in society so you say it is bigoted and needs reform. You can't accept that is how things are. You support meddling and causing trouble then blame someone else for the problems you cause. You people even blame human nature when things don't work instead of working with human nature.
Please do share your opinion on the differences of the sexes. Please do, I would love to hear this!
QUOTE
In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts.
Which has NOTHING to do with Anti-Descrimination laws.
Murder is Murder, its NOT a form of descrimination.
That has to do with doing away with unfair employment, Lending, housing practices etc etc.
Arthur
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5597594
Yesterday NPR had an interview with Syrian dissident Ammar Abdulhamid on his leaving Syria. This is one of the most level-headed fellows I've ever heard from this region. Somehow the ethnic hatreds that have raged for millenia passed him by. Go to http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5597594 for an enlightening interview. This is a link to the NPR page. Transcripts cost but the audio is free (I"d hurry as this may be temporary)
Yesterday NPR had an interview with Syrian dissident Ammar Abdulhamid on his leaving Syria. This is one of the most level-headed fellows I've ever heard from this region. Somehow the ethnic hatreds that have raged for millenia passed him by. Go to http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5597594 for an enlightening interview. This is a link to the NPR page. Transcripts cost but the audio is free (I"d hurry as this may be temporary)
QUOTE
Please do share your opinion on the differences of the sexes. Please do, I would love to hear this!
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences
There are philological differences on average. Why would there not be?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Please do share your opinion on the differences of the sexes. Please do, I would love to hear this! |
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences
There are philological differences on average. Why would there not be?
In the united states, the slaves were freed in the mid 19th century, yet, in the mid 20th century members of the KKK could murder black people, and get let off by the courts.
Murder is murder. It has nothing to do with discrimination like adoucetty said.
Please also provide some proof of that.
Forum sodded up and posted twice.
Madkite,
As we discussed priorly, there ARE some major "evils" happening in the UK society being majorly ignored, which I agree with you on. Like this in the North West:
http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2006/7/7/914687.html
Its the UNEDUCATED society tho that is very ignorant and filthy at mind, and are nothing but a nuisance to all, i.e. whether it be Asians here, Africans of Brixton, or British white scallies/townies of Bolton/Darwen/Knuzden etc.
They all possses the same traits/trend in mental functionlity.
Thanks.
As we discussed priorly, there ARE some major "evils" happening in the UK society being majorly ignored, which I agree with you on. Like this in the North West:
http://archive.thisislancashire.co.uk/2006/7/7/914687.html
Its the UNEDUCATED society tho that is very ignorant and filthy at mind, and are nothing but a nuisance to all, i.e. whether it be Asians here, Africans of Brixton, or British white scallies/townies of Bolton/Darwen/Knuzden etc.
They all possses the same traits/trend in mental functionlity.
Thanks.
QUOTE
Which has NOTHING to do with Anti-Descrimination laws.
Murder is Murder, its NOT a form of descrimination.
That has to do with doing away with unfair employment, Lending, housing practices etc etc.
Murder is Murder, its NOT a form of descrimination.
That has to do with doing away with unfair employment, Lending, housing practices etc etc.
Sorry, just a huge injustice against an entire race.
Here is an example of discrimination in the United states from less than 30 years ago. For anyone who follows football (the American kind) they will know of Warren Moon. He was quite a good NFL quarterback. He was the Rose Bowl MVP in his last collegette game. He went undrafted in the NFL draft because he was a black quarterback who refused to switch positions. He had to come to Canada and play in the Canadian Football League for a few years to 'prove' himself a compitent quarterback. He is the only football player to be in both the CFL and NFL hall of fame. Now, I am not suggesting that in sports they need to set up affirmative action programs, but sometimes there needs to be a way to make it fair, even if the rules technically make it unfair. In the 60's many NCAA colleges didn't want to have black basketball players. They claimed that they weren't intelligent enough to lead a team. Many times over that has been proved wrong! There are several more examples. Affirmative action sucks....and its not neccessarily a fair solution, but the past has shown us that it is neccessary or else more discrimination would take place.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Which has NOTHING to do with Anti-Descrimination laws. Murder is Murder, its NOT a form of descrimination. That has to do with doing away with unfair employment, Lending, housing practices etc etc. |
Sorry, just a huge injustice against an entire race.
Here is an example of discrimination in the United states from less than 30 years ago. For anyone who follows football (the American kind) they will know of Warren Moon. He was quite a good NFL quarterback. He was the Rose Bowl MVP in his last collegette game. He went undrafted in the NFL draft because he was a black quarterback who refused to switch positions. He had to come to Canada and play in the Canadian Football League for a few years to 'prove' himself a compitent quarterback. He is the only football player to be in both the CFL and NFL hall of fame. Now, I am not suggesting that in sports they need to set up affirmative action programs, but sometimes there needs to be a way to make it fair, even if the rules technically make it unfair. In the 60's many NCAA colleges didn't want to have black basketball players. They claimed that they weren't intelligent enough to lead a team. Many times over that has been proved wrong! There are several more examples. Affirmative action sucks....and its not neccessarily a fair solution, but the past has shown us that it is neccessary or else more discrimination would take place.
It is not a opinion it is a fact. Studies always show different traits on average between men and women. It is widely accepted in science. That does not mean you do not get exceptions to the rule. And exceptions do not make the general rules false.
I was expecting you to go on a rant about men being more intelligent. Glad that was not what you were doing.
QUOTE
Here is an example of discrimination in the United states from less than 30 years ago. For anyone who follows football (the American kind) they will know of Warren Moon. He was quite a good NFL quarterback. He was the Rose Bowl MVP in his last collegette game. He went undrafted in the NFL draft because he was a black quarterback who refused to switch positions. He had to come to Canada and play in the Canadian Football League for a few years to 'prove' himself a compitent quarterback. He is the only football player to be in both the CFL and NFL hall of fame. Now, I am not suggesting that in sports they need to set up affirmative action programs, but sometimes there needs to be a way to make it fair, even if the rules technically make it unfair. In the 60's many NCAA colleges didn't want to have black basketball players. They claimed that they weren't intelligent enough to lead a team. Many times over that has been proved wrong! There are several more examples. Affirmative action sucks....and its not neccessarily a fair solution, but the past has shown us that it is neccessary or else more discrimination would take place.
You can't force people to change how they think. You can only bread resentment by doing that.
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