To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Vitamin C And Cancer
PhysOrgForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > News discussions > Medicine and Health News

Mr. Robin Parsons
Given that Vitamin C is known to be used in the body for cellular repair, and it is also known that Cancer is a genetic disorder of the cellular repair systems, is there a potential connection?

Is it possible that excess Vitamin C Dosages over a lifespan could help to promote cancer?

Is it Possible that depriving someone with Cancer of Vitamin C could help to abate the cancerous growth? rendering a Malignant Tumor to a Benign state?

Anyone?

Pan Pax

smile.gif
cure-t-pakherbs
QUOTE (Mr. Robin Parsons+Jan 28 2008, 03:30 PM)
Given that Vitamin C is known to be used in the body for cellular repair, and it is also known that Cancer is a genetic disorder of the cellular repair systems, is there a potential connection?

Is it possible that excess Vitamin C Dosages over a lifespan could help to promote cancer?

Is it Possible that depriving someone with Cancer of Vitamin C could help to abate the cancerous growth? rendering a Malignant Tumor to a Benign state?

Anyone?

Pan Pax

smile.gif

I think no. Vitamin C does not sounds to have any effect on the structure or genetic disorder of cellular.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (cure-t-pakherbs+Jan 28 2008, 12:23 PM)
I think no. Vitamin C does not sounds to have any effect on the structure or genetic disorder of cellular.

So - so far - one 'no' based upon ....???

Anyone else? or are you all to scared to talk? Think? ohmy.gif huh.gif

Pan Pax

smile.gif
Iberian Lynx
I hear they're doing more studies on vitamin supplements that are turning out crazy. Like I read the other day that high doses of Beta Carotene can induce liver and prostate cancer growth, especially in smokers. This surprised me because I recently purchased vitamins a few days ago from GNC that are loaded with it and Retinyl Acetate. Even though it's supposed to turn to vitamin A, the body will sometimes get confused. I'm beginning to wonder if taking them is a bad idea.

After finding out that vitamins aren't always good for you taken in high to minimal dosages I think a broad spectrum has opened where I'm uncertain of what health experts recommend. I think it's quite possible that vitamin C could cause cancer.

What's troublesome about vitamins is that you can't be sure that you're not already getting enough in your diet. Say you had an orange feast one day but still took your vitamin C. You wouldn't really think on it twice but you could be overdosing.

Another problem is vitamins will be put on the shelves with contents way higher than normal range for your height and weight or anyone's for that matter and people will buy it thinking they can't get too much of a good thing. I have no clue what my intake of certain vitamins and minerals should be or if I'm getting them in my diet.

I feel like a test rat.
Mr. Robin Parsons
Vitamin A in high enough doses is Known to be toxic.

Polar Bears eat seafood that is loaded with Vitamin A so much so that the concentration of it in their livers ~ is so high ~ that a small quantity of the liver - eaten by a Human - can be-is so toxic as to be Mortally deadly.

A recent study that (I) saw - reported upon in the newspapers - suggested that the daily recommended dosage for men was too high and was causing them Calcium depletion from their bones over time.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
wcelliott
Your data seems to be biased the wrong way. High doses of Vitamin C (intravenous doses of 50,000mg or greater) have been shown effective at killing cancers of various sorts, in both in vitro and in vivo tests.

But the best vitamin to prevent cancer is Vitamin D, which has been shown to improve survival rates of lung cancer from 29% to 72%. There's also epidemiological evidence supporting the association between insufficient Vitamin D and higher incidences of cancers of all sorts. Separate studies have indicated that you get increased resistance to cancer all the way up to 2000IU of Vitamin D, daily, and recommendations that the RDA be increased to this level or higher.

This data comes from PhysOrg articles, BTW.

Linus Pauling postulated that cancerous cells are so starved for glucose that they mistake Vitamin C for glucose, and the result is hydrogen peroxide production, and cancerous cells are more sensitive to hydrogen peroxide toxicity than normal cells. The in vitro tests showing high Vitamin C killing various strains of cancer lines suggested that the mode of cell death was consistent with hydrogen peroxide toxicity.
PIATLAS
50 grams of Vitamin C? I new a vegetarian into alternate medicine that orally took vitamin C in such doses and got terrible mouth, throat and intestinal ulcers from eating too much vitamin C.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 7 2008, 06:32 AM)
Your data seems to be biased the wrong way.  High doses of Vitamin C (intravenous doses of 50,000mg or greater) have been shown effective at killing cancers of various sorts, in both in vitro and in vivo tests.
Great now if you would show me my data (I) would be quite content.

QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 7 2008, 06:32 AM)
But the best vitamin to prevent cancer is Vitamin D, which has been shown to improve survival rates of lung cancer from 29% to 72%.  There's also epidemiological evidence supporting the association between insufficient Vitamin D and higher incidences of cancers of all sorts.  Separate studies have indicated that you get increased resistance to cancer all the way up to 2000IU of Vitamin D, daily, and recommendations that the RDA be increased to this level or higher. This data comes from PhysOrg articles, BTW.
cool.gif Got a link?

QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 7 2008, 06:32 AM)
Linus Pauling postulated that cancerous cells are so starved for glucose that they mistake Vitamin C for glucose, and the result is hydrogen peroxide production, and cancerous cells are more sensitive to hydrogen peroxide toxicity than normal cells.  The in vitro tests showing high Vitamin C killing various strains of cancer lines suggested that the mode of cell death was consistent with hydrogen peroxide toxicity.
Very intelligent man yet - he died of Cancer.

It might work really - really well when injected ~ yet might just go the other route when ingested, but (I) too could be wrong hence.......

And 50 grams of Vitamin C seems ~ well ~ excessive...?

The premise of the Question is ~ is there a potential Link between the properties of Vitamin C - and it's renown abilities respective of Cellular repair and the Fact that Cancer is a Disorder of the Cellular repair System?

Thanks though ~ good info just the same.

Pan Pax

smile.gif
wcelliott
QUOTE
the Fact that Cancer is a Disorder of the Cellular repair System?


Here's where I get to ask for links supporting this "fact".

As for the points I've made, you can Google any of the topics you think I've made up and read the reports for yourselves. Links exist for each point made, some have several. Use Google, prove me wrong. Find one point I made that doesn't have a report backing it up.

The 50gm of Vitamin C was explicitly stated as being given intravenously ("IV"). The human digestive system can only absorb a certain amount of Vitamin C given orally, much less, much too low to create a toxic level of hydrogen peroxide in the cancerous cells.

One of the more obscure functions of Vitamin D is as a messenger that signals adjacent cells to stop dividing, that they're crowding them. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you have too little Vitamin D in your system, that tumors will result from unchecked division. They never receive the "that's far enough" signal from their neighbors. Eventually, unchecked division results in cells not dividing in an orderly fashion, and a malignant cell is created by mutation, and its descendants take over.

Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 8 2008, 10:35 PM)
Here's where I get to ask for links supporting this "fact".
O.K. read the part highlighted in Blue~ Link

QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 8 2008, 10:35 PM)
As for the points I've made, you can Google any of the topics you think I've made up and read the reports for yourselves.  Links exist for each point made, some have several.  Use Google, prove me wrong.  Find one point I made that doesn't have a report backing it up.
The 50gm of Vitamin C was explicitly stated as being given intravenously ("IV").  The human digestive system can only absorb a certain amount of Vitamin C given orally, much less, much too low to create a toxic level of hydrogen peroxide in the cancerous cells.
Intravenous administered Vitamin C is known to be potentially damaging to the veins.

QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 8 2008, 10:35 PM)
One of the more obscure functions of Vitamin D is as a messenger that signals adjacent cells to stop dividing, that they're crowding them.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you have too little Vitamin D in your system, that tumors will result from unchecked division.  They never receive the "that's far enough" signal from their neighbors.  Eventually, unchecked division results in cells not dividing in an orderly fashion, and a malignant cell is created by mutation, and its descendants take over.
wcelliott
QUOTE
Intravenous administered Vitamin C is known to be potentially damaging to the veins.


It's done routinely in clinics, where they're smart enough to buffer the Vitamin C so it doesn't damage the veins.

The statement I made that you highlighted blue wasn't a "disorder of the cellular repair system", it's a description of unchecked cellular reproduction. Reproduction and repair are two different things. Damaged cells repair themselves all the time without reproducing.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 9 2008, 12:34 PM)
The statement I made that you highlighted blue wasn't a "disorder of the cellular repair system", it's a description of unchecked cellular reproduction.  Reproduction and repair are two different things.  Damaged cells repair themselves all the time without reproducing.
So then we fix my original statement to say cellular reproduction ~ and/or repair?

Tell me do cells reproduce without Vitamin C?

Pan Pax

smile.gif
wcelliott
QUOTE
So then we fix my original statement to say cellular reproduction ~ and/or repair?

Tell me do cells reproduce without Vitamin C?


I suggest you do exactly as I suggested before and Google each and every statement I've made and read the scientific reports before attempting to further your position.
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 9 2008, 02:02 PM)
I suggest you do exactly as I suggested before and Google each and every statement I've made and read the scientific reports before attempting to further your position.

If (I)'ve the time perhaps (I) will just that it is simple enough to know that a good part of 'repair' of the body is by replacement-reproduction, as simple a a cut.

Thanks for the time though...

BTW my "position" is a question, just so you will notice that....also (I) notice that when (I) had asked you for a link....... blink.gif


Pan Pax

smile.gif
wcelliott
OK, I've got some time to kill.

http://www.knowledgeofhealth.com/report.as...n%20C,%20Cancer

"MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH REPORT

INTRAVENOUS VITAMIN C KILLS CANCER CELLS

Recall how hydrogen peroxide is poured on wounds to kill germs. Well now researchers clearly show high-dose vitamin C, when administered intravenously, can increase hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) levels within cancer cells and kills them. I.V. vitamin C was also demonstrated to kill germs and may be an effective therapy for infectious disease.

With a growing body of evidence mounting, National Institutes of Health (NIH) researchers conceded today that intravenous vitamin C may be an effective treatment for cancer. Last year the same researchers reported a similar study but the news media failed to publish it.
The latest study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, confirms the work of Nobel-Prize winner Dr. Linus Pauling who conducted cancer research in the 1970s with vitamin C. Dr. Pauling's studies were discredited at the time by poorly conducted research studies at the Mayo Clinic.

Unlike cancer drugs, I.V. vitamin C selectively killed cancer cells, but not healthy cells, and showed no toxicity. The ability of intravenous vitamin C to kill lymphoma cells was remarkable – almost 100% at easily achievable blood serum concentrations."


Vitamin D and cancer risk:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPrevent...=3256349&page=1

"...new research published today in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition suggests that vitamin D supplements may have another benefit: a 60 percent to 77 percent lower risk of cancer.

"Our study shows that with adequate vitamin D, cancer can be prevented -- or a high incidence of it can," said Joan Lappe, a professor of nursing and medicine at Creighton University and the lead author of the study.

"This is the first study that shows, in a clinical trial, that adequate levels of vitamin D can reduce the risk of cancer."

The research may already be impacting public health policy in at least one country. According to a release posted on its Web site, the Canadian Cancer Society is planning an announcement Friday that all adults should start taking vitamin D supplements. It's the first-ever move by a major public health organization to endorse daily use of the vitamin as a cancer-prevention therapy for an entire population. "

and

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/23042.php

"Animal studies have shown that treatment of cancer with vitamin D demonstrates both anti-proliferative and anti-invasive properties...

When the joint effects of surgery season and vitamin D intake were considered, the researchers found:

-- Patients with the highest vitamin D intake who had surgery in the summer had statistically significantly better outcomes - a three-fold better disease-free survival and a four-fold better overall survival - than patients who had surgery during winter with the lowest vitamin D intake. The five-year disease-free survival was 83 percent versus 46 percent, respectively, and the five-year overall survival rate was 72 percent compared to 30 percent, respectively.

and:

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/Path/fac/yi_fen_lee.htm

1. Anti-tumor effects of Vitamin D. Using prostate cancer as a experimental model to study the mechanisms how vitamin D exerts its chemopreventive, anti-proliferative, anti-invasive, and anti-angiogenesis effects.

and:

http://www.groupsrv.com/science/post-2324689.html

New data continue to emerge regarding the health benefits of vitamin D beyond
its role in bone. The intakes associated with those benefits suggest a
need for levels of supplementation, food fortification, or both that
are higher than current levels.

...and:
We present a risk assessment based on relevant, well-designed human
clinical trials of vitamin D. Collectively, the absence of toxicity in
trials conducted in healthy adults that used vitamin D dose > or = 250
microg/d (10,000 IU vitamin D3) supports the confident selection of
this value as the UL. "

and:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/bob9.asp

Vieth and Holick are among the scientists who advocate increasing "sensible" outdoor activity so people can boost their sun exposure and thus vitamin D supply.

The amount of sun required would pose virtually no increased cancer risk, Holick says. "We evolved in sunlight, and so our whole system is dependent on some exposure to sunlight," he says. In fact, "our health depends on it," he adds.

Most researchers recommend that people get much of their vitamin D intake from supplements and recommend that they boost daily vitamin D intakes to around 1,000 IU.

Holick says that physicians could measure 25-D in blood and prescribe increasing doses of the vitamin until 80 nmol/l is reached. Such personalized prescriptions could take into account lifestyle and pigmentation. For instance, Heaney's research in Omaha indicates that elderly, dark-skinned women could require up to 2,000 IU of vitamin D to keep 25-D concentrations around 80 nmol/l.

Linda D. Meyers, director of the Food and Nutrition Board, which sets the government's recommended daily intake values for all vitamins and some minerals, agrees that "it really is time to look at those [intake standards] again for vitamin D." The standard probably needs to be higher, she acknowledges.

That took me about fifteen minutes Googling the points I made.

What'd I miss?
Mr. Robin Parsons
QUOTE (wcelliott+Feb 9 2008, 06:09 PM)
(SNIP) That took me about fifteen minutes Googling the points I made. What'd I miss? (SNoP)

As far as (I) can tell nothing ~ THANKS! that is enormously beneficial information.

Will ~ if (I) find Comp time ~ read some of the links later.

Great job though Thanks again!

Pan Pax

smile.gif
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.