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LostInPhysics
Okay, so i had this idea the other day, what if the accelerating expansion of the universe can be explained in the following way...

Gravity obeys the inverse square law
If it is possible to then break this down further, lets say into gravitons, Would it be possible that as gravity gets weaker over distance this could be explained by the acceleration of gravitons through space (due to the lack of friction in space they continue to accelerate) converts their "Gravity" energy/information into Kinetic Energy/Information. What i am trying to suggest is could gravity decay into the dark matter/energy that we now believe to be driving the accelerating expansion of the universe?

Maybe I haven't explained this very well, I'm not a professional theoretical physicist, my specialism is actually Energy Dispersive Analytical techniques so if i have made some horrific mistake please inform me so i can try and rethink this, maybe it's sad but i do like to come up with new theories as a form of leisure...
waitedavid137
That's not a theory. Its a speculation you have here. Fortunately the theory we actually have already explains accelerated expansion as the result of a nonzero cosmological constant. The term explaining it was already built into Einstein's original field equations.
LostInPhysics
As i said i am terrible at wording things.

I wasn't trying to suggest it as an actual theory i meant it was a speculation.

What i was lead to understand is that the increasing acceleration in the expansion of the universe is believed to be caused by dark energy, what i was trying to suggest is that could this unknown source of dark energy (unknown as i have been lead to believe) be in some way related to a quantized particle carrying the force of gravity as such a particle would also have information such as momentum and position, and also carry potential energy which could cause the increasing acceleration?

Like i said, I'm not a physicist, i just like to think of these things for leisure.
waitedavid137
QUOTE (LostInPhysics+Apr 11 2012, 10:35 AM)
As i said i am terrible at wording things.

I wasn't trying to suggest it as an actual theory i meant it was a speculation.

What i was lead to understand is that the increasing acceleration in the expansion of the universe is believed to be caused by dark energy, what i was trying to suggest is that could this unknown source of dark energy (unknown as i have been lead to believe) be in some way related to a quantized particle carrying the force of gravity as such a particle would also have information such as momentum and position, and also carry potential energy which could cause the increasing acceleration?

Like i said, I'm not a physicist, i just like to think of these things for leisure.

The source is known. Its the cosmological constant term in the field equations. Dark energy is just a popular name because it makes it sound mystical.
Granted there is likely more to be learned about the cosmological constant like whether it can be manipulated in places just like the stress-energy tensor can be just by moving matter around, or whether there is an actual field particle associated with it, but from the beginning it was a part of Einstein's field equations so really not only is accelerated expansion understood, but it was predicted by the results of the field equations for the inclusion of the constant long before evidence for it had been observed. As far as quantization of gravity goes, though there are theories that do that describing gravity with a real force exchange carrier, I have my doubts that any such gravity force exchange carrier or graviton really exists since even though the spacetime curvature is real, the force of gravitation is just an inertial force.
My speculation is that space and time are only valid as concepts on scales large enough that a graviton force exchange model isn't required to be valid. It would be the group behavior of the matter not force exchanges that determines the spacetime geometry on such a scale. On a small enough scale where gravity is so weak compared to the other forces that it essentially doesn't exist the locations momentum energy time for anything gets so fuzzy how could gravity which is spacetime geometry be meaningful anyway. In short it may be the case that no quantum gravity theory is ever valid. We can speculate all we want. I just think its important to be able to be clear on what we are portraying as fact Vs theory Vs speculation Vs religion.
Mazulu
QUOTE (waitedavid137+Apr 11 2012, 06:20 PM)
The source is known. Its the cosmological constant term in the field equations. Dark energy is just a popular name because it makes it sound mystical.
Granted there is likely more to be learned about the cosmological constant like whether it can be manipulated in places just like the stress-energy tensor can be just by moving matter around, or whether there is an actual field particle associated with it, but from the beginning it was a part of Einstein's field equations so really not only is accelerated expansion understood, but it was predicted by the results of the field equations for the inclusion of the constant long before evidence for it had been observed. As far as quantization of gravity goes, though there are theories that do that describing gravity with a real force exchange carrier, I have my doubts that any such gravity force exchange carrier or graviton really exists since even though the spacetime curvature is real, the force of gravitation is just an inertial force.
My speculation is that space and time are only valid as concepts on scales large enough that a graviton force exchange model isn't required to be valid. It would be the group behavior of the matter not force exchanges that determines the spacetime geometry on such a scale. On a small enough scale where gravity is so weak compared to the other forces that it essentially doesn't exist the locations momentum energy time for anything gets so fuzzy how could gravity which is spacetime geometry be meaningful anyway. In short it may be the case that no quantum gravity theory is ever valid. We can speculate all we want. I just think its important to be able to be clear on what we are portraying as fact Vs theory Vs speculation Vs religion.

How do you distinguish between words like (space-time geometry) which are part of the mathematical model, from words like (space-time continuum) which is nature. The mathematical model models nature. General relativity models nature, the part of nature that we call the space-time continuum. The model is accurate, but not necessarily complete? If you assume that the model is complete, then technological advancement is stymied. However, if you think up new and clever experiments that attempt to discover something new about the space-time continuum and/or the standard model, then a discovery is possible.

Why is nobody coming up with ideas for clever experiments to discover something new about nature?

LostInPhysics
As i said, i'm not a physicist, i have a basic knowledge of physics and i don't read papers or books on physics, everything i posted here i came up with by myself and therefore if you already know then cool. I've only been a member of this site for about 4 hours and i'm already trying to find a way to delete my account because i'm sick of people making me feel like a BLOODY IDIOT.

All i wanted was intelligent discussion.

and Mazulu, thank you, this is something i have been saying for years about my own field of research.

It took a patents clerk to discover relativity.
Just saying.
Robittybob1
QUOTE (LostInPhysics+Apr 11 2012, 08:26 PM)
As i said, i'm not a physicist, i have a basic knowledge of physics and i don't read papers or books on physics, everything i posted here i came up with by myself and therefore if you already know then cool. I've only been a member of this site for about 4 hours and i'm already trying to find a way to delete my account because i'm sick of people making me feel like a BLOODY IDIOT.

All i wanted was intelligent discussion.

and Mazulu, thank you, this is something i have been saying for years about my own field of research.

It took a patents clerk to discover relativity.
Just saying.

Don't give up so soon. Please don't give in.
AlexG
QUOTE
It took a patents clerk to discover relativity.


No, it took a graduate physicist from Zurich Polytechnic Institute.
rpenner
QUOTE (LostInPhysics+Apr 11 2012, 08:26 PM)
It took a patents clerk to discover relativity.

As AlexG indicates, this is a distortion. Einstein was not a physics-outsider but did have a bit of trouble getting an academic position right out of school.
Mekigal
QUOTE (rpenner+Apr 12 2012, 11:28 PM)
As AlexG indicates, this is a distortion. Einstein was not a physics-outsider but did have a bit of trouble getting an academic position right out of school.

Was not his uncle and father mathematicians also. I read that somewhere. They would play little math games with the young Albert

One thing people don't understand is greatness usually has a back story . Like musicians that make a living at it are usually children of musicians . Like the singers on American Idol . How many of them that get into the top ten have musical parents that helped them along . Quite a few I would say . More than statistical chance .

You take my own son ( mathematically brilliant young man ) It was before he started school I taught him the Pythagorean equation. Well when he got around to it in school it was way familiar. Then I tricked his middle school teacher into thinking he was mathematically incline. Yeah a form of cronyism. So extra special treatment got him way past my skill level . God now I got know Idea what his teachers and him talk about .
She got big plans for him as she is a mathematician first teacher second. You see how that works . You all can do that to your kids too. It would start manifesting as smarter students in a few years if you did
Whitewolf4869
Einstein's father was a business man.
They ran a failing electronics business.
Albert learned physics from a practical point of view.
That was probably partially the reason for his genius.
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