http://www.physorg.com/news97508859.html
This article is just more proof that US education needs replacing. The issue is not with the children or teachers, it is the system.
Why is it failing?
US public education is rigid, inflexible, bureaucratic and is designed to fail. Teachers have no incentive to succeed/improve other than their own conscience. Don"t blame the teachers, the problem ""is" government" like Reagan said. By government I mean both administrators and politicians.
[Rant mode: On]
Why should the best teachers be treated the same as the worst teachers. Why can"t parents and kids have the freedom of choice: which school to send their kids, what they learn?
We live and breath the solution every day in America. Expose education to market forces and things will improve. Communism doesn"t work. The wealthy already get the choice of private schools. Why can"t the masses have a choice too? Because government thinks it knows how best to spend your hard earned money.... wrong, wrong, wrong!
[Rant mode: Off]
I think googleplex manifests the same problem mentioned in the article itself: thinking in preset patterns instead of analyzing the problem logically.
Take the knee-jerk rant against "government" and "Communism", in favor of "market forces".
China is a good example of "big government" and "Communism" in action. So was the old Soviet Union. So is most of Europe. So how come they consistently leave the "market force" USA in the dust when it comes to math/science/engineering education?
The problem with US education is not that it's too centralized. On the contrary, it's too DEcentralized. There is no federal standard for curriculum, pedagogic approach, or performance evaluation. Various subjects (e.g. Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Earth Science) are taught in a disjointed manner, rather than synergizing and integrating information between them. Because there is no standardized approach ot the curriculum, there cannot be any ongoing evaluation and improvement of the curriculum. The "No Child Left Behind" act was a first step toward some rudimentary federal standard, but even this is nothing compared to how much structure is present in the world's SUCCESSFUL education systems.
The problem is not bad teachers (they are present all over the world, even in the best education establishments). The problem is bad methodology. Instead of following into the trap of laissez-faire economics mindset, how about trying NOT to reinvent the wheel, and instead actually copying what ALREADY WORKS from around the world?
Take the knee-jerk rant against "government" and "Communism", in favor of "market forces".
China is a good example of "big government" and "Communism" in action. So was the old Soviet Union. So is most of Europe. So how come they consistently leave the "market force" USA in the dust when it comes to math/science/engineering education?
The problem with US education is not that it's too centralized. On the contrary, it's too DEcentralized. There is no federal standard for curriculum, pedagogic approach, or performance evaluation. Various subjects (e.g. Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Earth Science) are taught in a disjointed manner, rather than synergizing and integrating information between them. Because there is no standardized approach ot the curriculum, there cannot be any ongoing evaluation and improvement of the curriculum. The "No Child Left Behind" act was a first step toward some rudimentary federal standard, but even this is nothing compared to how much structure is present in the world's SUCCESSFUL education systems.
The problem is not bad teachers (they are present all over the world, even in the best education establishments). The problem is bad methodology. Instead of following into the trap of laissez-faire economics mindset, how about trying NOT to reinvent the wheel, and instead actually copying what ALREADY WORKS from around the world?
Whats new? Anyhow why all this bad news on this site? Everything I have ever seen on this site has been bad news... I guess thats what you get when your a retard.
Hey Magpie, speaking of education, shouldn't that be "...you're a retard." or possibly "...you are retarded."? 
Then again you are posting at 02:41 AM local time. Maybe you could use a depressing "snore fest" article regarding sleep deprivation.
I'm just yanking your chain... 
Seriously though Magpie, I've found the vast majority of the articles on this site to be very informative and encouraging. If you find them depressing, try changing your view. Look for the good in the article. If you haven't found it, you're not looking hard enough.
I suspect you may be a moderately unhappy person... Maybe you can apply this "change of view" to the rest of your life as well. The people around you will thank you for not being such a negative nancy.
Can everyone please just stop criticizing education systems for one moment and look at where this study is actually published.
That's right, a psychological journal, suggesting that this is nothing to do with the actual education, more to do with memory and learning in general. This conclusion is especially obvious since we all know the well documented occurence of 'forgetting' or 'getting rusty at something', and since there have been no previous studies to compare with this study, we should asume this is how it's always been.
That's right, a psychological journal, suggesting that this is nothing to do with the actual education, more to do with memory and learning in general. This conclusion is especially obvious since we all know the well documented occurence of 'forgetting' or 'getting rusty at something', and since there have been no previous studies to compare with this study, we should asume this is how it's always been.
arvliet, well said. that's probably exactly what magpies needed to hear, but i'll bet magpies will read that and add it to his/her ball of hatrid rather than use it constructively.
also, magpies, there's an easy solution to your problem of only reading "negative" articles on this website - don't visit it anymore. i know some people who are generally negative all the time, and i simply choose to disassociate myself with them. i suggest you do that with this website, as i'm betting you're unable to change your views to see the good in these articles, so continuing to read them is probably doing you mental harm, whether you want to admit it or not.
also, magpies, there's an easy solution to your problem of only reading "negative" articles on this website - don't visit it anymore. i know some people who are generally negative all the time, and i simply choose to disassociate myself with them. i suggest you do that with this website, as i'm betting you're unable to change your views to see the good in these articles, so continuing to read them is probably doing you mental harm, whether you want to admit it or not.
i think you guys are taking it a bit too far...
stick to the facts: this particular phenomenon is due to the procedural approach to mathematics and probably other sciences as well in US school education. Students are taught stupid recipes they have to follow in order to solve a particular type of problem. They neither need to understand *what* they do nor *why* they do it this way and not another. Math is a structure science, it's about UNDERSTANDING STRUCTURES, not about following a recipe to calculate different numbers the same pattern all over and over again.
I'm from germany, and every exchange student coming back from the US was ranting about the lack of understanding (WHAT you do and WHY you do it) in US math education. Even those who were having problems with math classes came back laughing about the amount of repitition and the lack of in-depth-understanding of math problems in US schools. The solution is very simple: Less repetition, more challenging problems for which not every single step to the solution is known in advance. But of course this involves more thinking, as well on the student's, as on the teacher's side.
stick to the facts: this particular phenomenon is due to the procedural approach to mathematics and probably other sciences as well in US school education. Students are taught stupid recipes they have to follow in order to solve a particular type of problem. They neither need to understand *what* they do nor *why* they do it this way and not another. Math is a structure science, it's about UNDERSTANDING STRUCTURES, not about following a recipe to calculate different numbers the same pattern all over and over again.
I'm from germany, and every exchange student coming back from the US was ranting about the lack of understanding (WHAT you do and WHY you do it) in US math education. Even those who were having problems with math classes came back laughing about the amount of repitition and the lack of in-depth-understanding of math problems in US schools. The solution is very simple: Less repetition, more challenging problems for which not every single step to the solution is known in advance. But of course this involves more thinking, as well on the student's, as on the teacher's side.
Could it possibly be that every year the schools come up with "new math?'" I find this ridiculous! I remember my son coming home in the 5th grade with something called strip mats and a very thick book for the parents to read so that they could help the child with the concept. Help them?!? I could not understand the stupid book to save my life as it made absolutely no sense to me and I have an IQ of 131. Instead I tried to teach my son the way I learned which reduced him to tears because he said that he would get into trouble for not doing the way the teacher wanted him to do it.
Chris Deans: I agree with you that this is published in a psychological journal. Please note though, its a "developmental" psychology journal. I think all teachers should be reading this stuff, if a study like this comes out, and it is confirmed, I damn well intend to teach my child a little differently, because it may help him understand it better. I know I always had a lot of trouble adjusting to new ideas in math, I got set in the patterns I was taught. I got almost all the way through calculus before I realized it was all different ways of recognizing and solving integrals.
My point: I disagree that the entire US education system is flawed, the worst thing you can do is crush and burn the system, when all you need to do is tweak a few things. If we simply adjust the curriculum for math, following a study like this, then kids start understanding math better, its that simple. No need to be anarchist about it.
My point: I disagree that the entire US education system is flawed, the worst thing you can do is crush and burn the system, when all you need to do is tweak a few things. If we simply adjust the curriculum for math, following a study like this, then kids start understanding math better, its that simple. No need to be anarchist about it.
Hey Maggs.....you just got..well you no( it's know, haha)......Your, you're is a classic "IQ test". but don't fret, you made a good point, grammer aside.
As a proud parent of a 9 year old, after asking her this very question, she got the answer before me....So no(know,haha) problem here thus far....
Very interesting though...
NEWBE
As a proud parent of a 9 year old, after asking her this very question, she got the answer before me....So no(know,haha) problem here thus far....
Very interesting though...
NEWBE
My 9 YO walked through while I was reading this. So I posed the problem to him. He answered this correctly in 2 seconds. Doh. Next article...
its not the students fault
most teachers dont even know to teach the fundamental components
of algebra. a master's degree in math means nothing to a student who doesnt
understand why s/he master the equivalency rule.
most teachers dont even know to teach the fundamental components
of algebra. a master's degree in math means nothing to a student who doesnt
understand why s/he master the equivalency rule.
No, the US Education system is not entirely to blame... the errors described result from a blatant lack of attention to detail (or attention, period). Students in this day and age have increasingly limited attention spans (A sign of the times?) and many are "diagnosed" with some attention deficit disorder and doped up to make them concentrate. I admit that I have a short attention span, but not for all things, just certain things. If it is something I'm not interested in, I'll usually be easily distracted. I think it stems from TV. If someone doesn't have any interest in what's on, they change the channel.
QUOTE (palettentreter+May 6 2007, 09:06 PM)
stick to the facts: this particular phenomenon is due to the procedural approach to mathematics and probably other sciences as well in US school education. Students are taught stupid recipes they have to follow in order to solve a particular type of problem. They neither need to understand *what* they do nor *why* they do it this way and not another. Math is a structure science, it's about UNDERSTANDING STRUCTURES, not about following a recipe to calculate different numbers the same pattern all over and over again.
I'm from germany, and every exchange student coming back from the US was ranting about the lack of understanding (WHAT you do and WHY you do it) in US math education. Even those who were having problems with math classes came back laughing about the amount of repitition and the lack of in-depth-understanding of math problems in US schools. The solution is very simple: Less repetition, more challenging problems for which not every single step to the solution is known in advance. But of course this involves more thinking, as well on the student's, as on the teacher's side.
I wholeheartedly second palettentreter's statement. I am a product of mostly Russian math education, finishing up only the last 3 years of general ed ("high school") in the USA. I was absolutely appalled at the lack of comprehension on the part of my classmates. They were very good at memorizing pre-canned recipes, and they were much faster and more accurate than me in repeatedly and rapidly applying said recipes on tests and quizzes. But posit them a problem they haven't seen recently (or never before) and hence don't know a preset recipe for, and they are completely lost and helpless.
Thus it is, that even mediocre math students coming from Russia are suddenly A+ math students in USA. This is just seriously wrong.
My brother (9 years younger) got his entire math education in the USA, and he is just as much of a failure at math (and science) as the average American. We tried tutoring him, trying to convince him that understanding is much more important than rote memorization. But he flat-out rebelled and rejected all of our attempts, because they were conflicting with the way his teachers were expecting him to work through the problems.
And I still maintain that lack of cross-subject integration is an additional major deficit in American math/science education. For example, in high school they cram all of Physics or all of Chemistry into one year; one cannot possibly get through that much material so fast without abandoning all hope of comprehension and falling back on rote memorization. And one cannot possibly hope to see the cross-subject connections and synergies between the various disciplines when one takes them in a disjointed manner and at such a breakneck pace.
I'm from germany, and every exchange student coming back from the US was ranting about the lack of understanding (WHAT you do and WHY you do it) in US math education. Even those who were having problems with math classes came back laughing about the amount of repitition and the lack of in-depth-understanding of math problems in US schools. The solution is very simple: Less repetition, more challenging problems for which not every single step to the solution is known in advance. But of course this involves more thinking, as well on the student's, as on the teacher's side.
I wholeheartedly second palettentreter's statement. I am a product of mostly Russian math education, finishing up only the last 3 years of general ed ("high school") in the USA. I was absolutely appalled at the lack of comprehension on the part of my classmates. They were very good at memorizing pre-canned recipes, and they were much faster and more accurate than me in repeatedly and rapidly applying said recipes on tests and quizzes. But posit them a problem they haven't seen recently (or never before) and hence don't know a preset recipe for, and they are completely lost and helpless.
Thus it is, that even mediocre math students coming from Russia are suddenly A+ math students in USA. This is just seriously wrong.
My brother (9 years younger) got his entire math education in the USA, and he is just as much of a failure at math (and science) as the average American. We tried tutoring him, trying to convince him that understanding is much more important than rote memorization. But he flat-out rebelled and rejected all of our attempts, because they were conflicting with the way his teachers were expecting him to work through the problems.
And I still maintain that lack of cross-subject integration is an additional major deficit in American math/science education. For example, in high school they cram all of Physics or all of Chemistry into one year; one cannot possibly get through that much material so fast without abandoning all hope of comprehension and falling back on rote memorization. And one cannot possibly hope to see the cross-subject connections and synergies between the various disciplines when one takes them in a disjointed manner and at such a breakneck pace.
The "public" education system in the US has never been about creating the best and the brightest.. If you go study the writings and quotations of Horace Mann and the founders / builders of this system, you will find that it is all about controlling a population and indoctrinating them as the system sees fit at the lowest possible level of functional education.
Any educator demonstrating exceptional abilities to teach and develop truly educated children are applauded, awarded, and then separated from the regular system to work in a "special" school. Afterall, there will still need to be properly educated "caretakers" for the general society that exists around them.
The results?
- A childish, mediocre ability to reason, read, or independently think.
- A permanently engrained reliance on "experts".
- A preponderance of "belief" in junk science created to siphon billions of tax dollars into self-sustaining "research" and "support"careers for the select few.
- An addiction to consumerism for happiness and social acceptance.
- The inability to function without medication to include psychoactives and toxins.
- An absolute denial of God even though we understand virtually nothing about ourselves or the universe around us.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
Any educator demonstrating exceptional abilities to teach and develop truly educated children are applauded, awarded, and then separated from the regular system to work in a "special" school. Afterall, there will still need to be properly educated "caretakers" for the general society that exists around them.
The results?
- A childish, mediocre ability to reason, read, or independently think.
- A permanently engrained reliance on "experts".
- A preponderance of "belief" in junk science created to siphon billions of tax dollars into self-sustaining "research" and "support"careers for the select few.
- An addiction to consumerism for happiness and social acceptance.
- The inability to function without medication to include psychoactives and toxins.
- An absolute denial of God even though we understand virtually nothing about ourselves or the universe around us.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
You know, kids often seem to lose grammar skills when they move from imitation to processing rules themselves. A kid who used to say "I went to the store" will suddenly start saying "I goed to the store," because in their brain, past tense means "add 'ed' to the verb." Maybe something like this is happening?
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