Alexander Galkin could have left Russia to study for his doctorate in neuroscience in the USA. But instead he"s at Humboldt and Free universities in Germany"s capital, because, "I had better scientific opportunities."
Rising U.S. tuitions, increased tension between much of the world and the United States and post-9/11-related immigration issues have all fed a decline in foreign student enrollment. So, too, has heightened competition from the rest of the developed world.
Although there are more than 500,000 foreign students in U.S. universities, enrollment has dropped more than 3% since the 2001-02 academic year. The consequences are serious enough to lead President Bush to call Thursday for more federal spending on language training, the recruitment of foreign language experts to teach in the USA and a streamlining of immigration regulations to allow more students to study here. "We want young kids from around the world coming to our universities," Bush told a State Department-sponsored summit of more than 120 university presidents Thursday.
Read more... (USA Today)
A drop in foreign students does not constitute a "brain drain." Is it true that journalists must flunk intelligence tests before being allowed to practice their trade? 
"Brain drain" may be the wrong term here. Perhaps one might speak of "cognitive repulsion."
Honestly, I can't imagine why any bright, talented, well-informed young person would choose to relocate to an increasingly xenophobic nation whose political leadership rests upon a power base of anti-science, religious and cultural extremism. I am an American, and my son attends a university in Britain. I hope to god he stays there.
Honestly, I can't imagine why any bright, talented, well-informed young person would choose to relocate to an increasingly xenophobic nation whose political leadership rests upon a power base of anti-science, religious and cultural extremism. I am an American, and my son attends a university in Britain. I hope to god he stays there.
And, it would probably be best for everybpdy, if you followed him.
Mike
Mike
The problem isn't just that foreign countries aren't sending students here. College graduates in science and engineering are also choosing to work in other countries instead of in the US.
well, any foreign student who comes to Germany, would eventually somehow in his life do something to help US, so it is all good. US, Germany, UK, Israel....all good. Just different localities but more or less same political outlines, and pretty much the same fate.
It's not just a matter of how they will be able to help the US. Yes, we will all benefit from new technologies because they will be distributed to where ever they are needed.
But all of the money generated from those technologies will no longer end up here, but in another country. Then more smart people will go to that same country and develop more technologies...that's what happened here in the US.
But all of the money generated from those technologies will no longer end up here, but in another country. Then more smart people will go to that same country and develop more technologies...that's what happened here in the US.
QUOTE
And, it would probably be best for everybpdy, if you followed him.
Mike
Mike
and that is why the us is such great(sarcasm) nation
Bullshit. Mentioning 9/11 here says it all. That *** Galkin wants to promote his political agenda this way.
It's all about....... well..... corporations again...am I right??
"brain drain" is not an appropriate term i agree.
Nowadays everyone wants to do something..young people starting to realise how much of a change they could bring "unleash" upon the world with their knowledge and creativity......instead of working for freaking corporations and wasting their valuable life time for someone else's profit.
"brain drain" is not an appropriate term i agree.
Nowadays everyone wants to do something..young people starting to realise how much of a change they could bring "unleash" upon the world with their knowledge and creativity......instead of working for freaking corporations and wasting their valuable life time for someone else's profit.
But you have to admit. Americans have had it "large" for so long, they are almost blind to changes, and there is a hard resistance to acceptance of change. The American economic pie is getting larger and the Median income has decreased since year 2001. Somehow, either this economic pie is being used to feed people who are not living in US, or this pie is becoming rancid in the Corporate refrigarator where it is eventually disposed of. Tax cuts and increased trust income == decreased eagerness to join the country as an immigrant. It is just logical.
Being an American, you know there are foreigners everywhere you go. Fearing one is rarely the issue. Becoming feared that one wants to "visit un-beknowned" IS the issue. What American's don't want (and I hope I'm speaking for everyone) are people coming into America to do harm. The best thing we can do as a nation is become vigilant w/ how we move forward.
Additionally, I find it amusing what is considered anti-science in this day in age. The kind of decisions that our founding fathers made were much more broad in a definitional sense. Today, decision makers have to weigh thoughts based on fine-line scientifical viewpoints. I can't say I've agreed with every decision our government makes, but when it comes to a crazy towel heads bent on finding 72 virgins... Well, I'll just say I want every non-national to "check-in", after arriving.
Additionally, I find it amusing what is considered anti-science in this day in age. The kind of decisions that our founding fathers made were much more broad in a definitional sense. Today, decision makers have to weigh thoughts based on fine-line scientifical viewpoints. I can't say I've agreed with every decision our government makes, but when it comes to a crazy towel heads bent on finding 72 virgins... Well, I'll just say I want every non-national to "check-in", after arriving.
I think that the brain drain, has to do with both hierarchical standards, as well as facilitation.
Allot of people are perusing education online, as they have other duties in life, that pull them away from being an academic wallflower, based at a university.
The more vintage look at what was supposed to be academia, as this related to a produced product, is that government was right, because government is always right.
This is a clear overunity problem, as facilitation, does not care, that when you give a person a VDRL screening, from a private lab, that the person who is being tested, has to subscribe to a certain philosophical, social tenet.
What this move is, or should be, is how do you rapidly educate someone, so that they can peruse their goals, in life, rather than even attempt to prop up a lame hierarchal structure, that only cares about its self edifice?
Allot of people are perusing education online, as they have other duties in life, that pull them away from being an academic wallflower, based at a university.
The more vintage look at what was supposed to be academia, as this related to a produced product, is that government was right, because government is always right.
This is a clear overunity problem, as facilitation, does not care, that when you give a person a VDRL screening, from a private lab, that the person who is being tested, has to subscribe to a certain philosophical, social tenet.
What this move is, or should be, is how do you rapidly educate someone, so that they can peruse their goals, in life, rather than even attempt to prop up a lame hierarchal structure, that only cares about its self edifice?
Yes, it is a drain as compared with former years. While, perhaps, scientists are not actively moving away, the "drain" is a rate change in the influx of talent. So it is a drain with respect to the increasing of knowledge, which IS science.
One might invoke 9-11 and "think" that says it all. Truly, the xenophobia in the US repels the best and the brightest. Of course the reason is more complex, the effect results from a dynamic system. But the foremost cause is the virulent anti-science attitude of my country. Being a scientist myself, I am becoming afraid of the negative stereotyping.
Consider how science is under attack from the classrooms and to National Science Foundation funding cuts. Even our president is actively hostile to scientific inquiry, instead basing decisions upon the divine. Whether or not this is mere pandering, science is hurt by it. Little wonder that the most intelligent members of our species are avoiding this country. But the most religious among us are trying to turn back time, pretending that the Age of Reason never happened.
One might invoke 9-11 and "think" that says it all. Truly, the xenophobia in the US repels the best and the brightest. Of course the reason is more complex, the effect results from a dynamic system. But the foremost cause is the virulent anti-science attitude of my country. Being a scientist myself, I am becoming afraid of the negative stereotyping.
Consider how science is under attack from the classrooms and to National Science Foundation funding cuts. Even our president is actively hostile to scientific inquiry, instead basing decisions upon the divine. Whether or not this is mere pandering, science is hurt by it. Little wonder that the most intelligent members of our species are avoiding this country. But the most religious among us are trying to turn back time, pretending that the Age of Reason never happened.
What you are all forgetting is the sad state of affairs in our schools. We have public schools teaching that tolerance is more important than balancing a check book. We have students being expelled because they bring an aspirin to school for a headache.
We have colleges (I am speaking as a student of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA and I transferred from Temple University in Philly) that insist upon teaching you only one side of the argument. This is in whatever class your in. A simple class on cryptography (data encryption and decryption) is turned into a political statement class. If we can't seperate facts from personal opinion in class, of course people are going to go elsewhere for education. I once attended a class on equal opprotunity at Temple University and the instructor (female of Asian decent) said that she wasn't going to turn it into a white male bashing class on the first day. By the third class, it was a white male bashing class. There was very few white males in the class. BTW, this was a required class at Temple.
So when you look at the supposide "brain drain" maybe we should look at those instructing the classes as well and see what exactly they are teaching rather than commenting that its just students going elsewhere.
We have colleges (I am speaking as a student of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA and I transferred from Temple University in Philly) that insist upon teaching you only one side of the argument. This is in whatever class your in. A simple class on cryptography (data encryption and decryption) is turned into a political statement class. If we can't seperate facts from personal opinion in class, of course people are going to go elsewhere for education. I once attended a class on equal opprotunity at Temple University and the instructor (female of Asian decent) said that she wasn't going to turn it into a white male bashing class on the first day. By the third class, it was a white male bashing class. There was very few white males in the class. BTW, this was a required class at Temple.
So when you look at the supposide "brain drain" maybe we should look at those instructing the classes as well and see what exactly they are teaching rather than commenting that its just students going elsewhere.
No, the US is still the best place for opportunity and much research. Stem cell is exception because of restriction, but you find same restriction many other country.
Taxes in Europe kill new enterprise. Everyone want to retire as soon as possible. Retiring Europeans, as they say.
Taxes in Europe kill new enterprise. Everyone want to retire as soon as possible. Retiring Europeans, as they say.
Hey guys,
Sorry to interrupt the interesting discussion but ins ted of talking, sorry to say, most of the time nonsense, ask the international students why they come here. I am taking about students in the hard sciences.
Just to give you an idea, it is because of the opportunities as you can guess ... WE usually do not have these opportunities in our countries. NO ONE comes to US because they like the life here it is because of the OPPORTUNITIES. With the increment of the opportunities in other countries the brain river coming to US will dry. NO ONE wants to move away from home (City, Country, Continent), we do that for we are in NEED. Ones this NEED disappears ... well you can see my logic.
Sorry to interrupt the interesting discussion but ins ted of talking, sorry to say, most of the time nonsense, ask the international students why they come here. I am taking about students in the hard sciences.
Just to give you an idea, it is because of the opportunities as you can guess ... WE usually do not have these opportunities in our countries. NO ONE comes to US because they like the life here it is because of the OPPORTUNITIES. With the increment of the opportunities in other countries the brain river coming to US will dry. NO ONE wants to move away from home (City, Country, Continent), we do that for we are in NEED. Ones this NEED disappears ... well you can see my logic.
QUOTE
NO ONE comes to US because they like the life here it is because of the OPPORTUNITIES.
I doubt these opportunities would persist for any significant longer period of time. Since 2001, the college tuition of the publicly funded colleges had almost 1.5x more than it used to be. The change would be felt by a student who comes from a poor country. Even Americans would have to cut from their food or other necessacity to pay for eduaction. Couple that with rising oil prices, an unstable economy, a slow global growth rate, and President Bush's dumb ideas, and you have yourself a dooming budget crisis.
I think it's funny that people think America is dependent on outside sources for brainpower. Really there's no more or less brainpower here or anywhere else.
Here's how I see it: America tries pick clean the best and brightest from the countries with the largest populations. Anyone who grows up in America with half a brain can see that the life of a scientist is not that great. People with professional degrees do much better. Many Americans do not grow up believing in a ladder system, or tenure. So there's not much clamor to do these dirty jobs that don't pay well and require constant begging for funds. So, what the headline should say is, "Extremely Cheap Brainpower is Drying Up" or "Foreigners Getting Wise to Enslavement in American Universities."
Plus if there were actually less supply then the demand should rise, right? Why is it not reflected in salaries? Maybe someone is overestimating their social and economic worth? Hard questions to ask, especially since I work in research.
I have to agree that the guy who sent his son overseas to college can take the next boat out for all I care. Just be sure you apologize to each and every European, because we have to listen to your crap over here every day.
Unsafe Camp
Here's how I see it: America tries pick clean the best and brightest from the countries with the largest populations. Anyone who grows up in America with half a brain can see that the life of a scientist is not that great. People with professional degrees do much better. Many Americans do not grow up believing in a ladder system, or tenure. So there's not much clamor to do these dirty jobs that don't pay well and require constant begging for funds. So, what the headline should say is, "Extremely Cheap Brainpower is Drying Up" or "Foreigners Getting Wise to Enslavement in American Universities."
Plus if there were actually less supply then the demand should rise, right? Why is it not reflected in salaries? Maybe someone is overestimating their social and economic worth? Hard questions to ask, especially since I work in research.
I have to agree that the guy who sent his son overseas to college can take the next boat out for all I care. Just be sure you apologize to each and every European, because we have to listen to your crap over here every day.
Unsafe Camp
A country is just like an individual: it is extremely hard to lead in the
100% self-discipline by honest ideal to science all the time. If the public of US
chooses to cash in instead of further invest in the "altruistic" science, the scientific
freedom loving few have to relocate themselves elsewhere in the now globally
well-connected scientific community
100% self-discipline by honest ideal to science all the time. If the public of US
chooses to cash in instead of further invest in the "altruistic" science, the scientific
freedom loving few have to relocate themselves elsewhere in the now globally
well-connected scientific community
mrstwin2, I am sorry that you have to be going though such a gauntlette.
There are three and two year, more practicle oriented schools, that get you done faster.
There are three and two year, more practicle oriented schools, that get you done faster.
I honestly dont think American cares much. It has the strongest army. If it wants a technology it would just bully it out for itself lol...why bother trying to attract minds. 
Who said science and education was going to be immune from globalization. There will be progress and opportunities around the world independent of US scientific efforts. However, the best and the brightest find rewards in the US and Canada they can't find elsewhere. A friendly intellectual property environment, high standards of living, comparatively low taxes, high monetary compensation for ideas with commercial appeal, scale/scope of scientific pursuits, relative safety and freedom from government persecution, a mostly merit-based system... these are all characteristics of science/education in the US that cannot *all* be found in the same spot anywhere else.
The US is here to stay in science and education. Its just a bit less lonely for the Yanks.
BTW - that the US is losing some talent IMHO just speaks to how advanced and competitive their scientific/educational marketplace has become. To play in the US you have to be a "player"... the less bright, qualified and socialists need not apply.
The US is here to stay in science and education. Its just a bit less lonely for the Yanks.
BTW - that the US is losing some talent IMHO just speaks to how advanced and competitive their scientific/educational marketplace has become. To play in the US you have to be a "player"... the less bright, qualified and socialists need not apply.
QUOTE
BTW - that the US is losing some talent IMHO just speaks to how advanced and competitive their scientific/educational marketplace has become. To play in the US you have to be a "player"... the less bright, qualified and socialists need not apply.
or be rich, black, a woman, or a religious minority, and they would put you in charge if you can distinguish between ur left and right hand.
When I saw the previews for I-Robot, I thought it was the real thing.
This is so, as you know who, gets everything , in the way of technology, that's new.> All they had showed, was the three view stills, of the robot, with no action.
I was saying to myself, what are they doing, advertising leases for this product, or what.
I even did a web search for this advertisement, as I thought that it was an actual product.
This is so, as you know who, gets everything , in the way of technology, that's new.> All they had showed, was the three view stills, of the robot, with no action.
I was saying to myself, what are they doing, advertising leases for this product, or what.
I even did a web search for this advertisement, as I thought that it was an actual product.
It is funny that people think America actually needs a couple of transfer students from a such economically unstable nations as Russia. Russians are better off staying in their own country. This Russian guy can get lost for all I care. We do not need Russians in Europe and in this case Germany, we have our own effective work force. I mean the article makes it sound like Germany relies on pathetic Russian transfer students for its technological advancement. All Russia had during cold war including its nuclear Arsenal was given to it by Germans or stolen from Americans. We can close the border with these Rusisans and newly modernized east block countries and do not feel a thing. In fact, unification with east germany cost us heavily as the technologically inferior east germany really halted the growth of west. So today EU is all we need really. We do not even need US. We can managed to survive pretty well by our own French, English, and German technology, thank you.
Eh Russian...French...American...yellow...white...black...brown...whatever
We're all the same.
Anybody who claims someone else is unintelligent because they live in a different location is ignorant. Substitute "implies" for claims if you need to...
We're all the same.
Anybody who claims someone else is unintelligent because they live in a different location is ignorant. Substitute "implies" for claims if you need to...
QUOTE (mrstwin2+Jan 10 2006, 02:55 PM)
What you are all forgetting is the sad state of affairs in our schools. We have public schools teaching that tolerance is more important than balancing a check book. We have students being expelled because they bring an aspirin to school for a headache.
We have colleges (I am speaking as a student of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA and I transferred from Temple University in Philly) that insist upon teaching you only one side of the argument. This is in whatever class your in. A simple class on cryptography (data encryption and decryption) is turned into a political statement class. If we can't seperate facts from personal opinion in class, of course people are going to go elsewhere for education. I once attended a class on equal opprotunity at Temple University and the instructor (female of Asian decent) said that she wasn't going to turn it into a white male bashing class on the first day. By the third class, it was a white male bashing class. There was very few white males in the class. BTW, this was a required class at Temple.
So when you look at the supposide "brain drain" maybe we should look at those instructing the classes as well and see what exactly they are teaching rather than commenting that its just students going elsewhere.
Tolerance IS more important than balancing a check book. Check books are quickly becoming obsolete. Hopefully diversity will last forever. Even if check books were here to stay, there are more and better ways of managing your finances, but there is no better way to get along with the rest of the population than to understand them.
I do agree that it is a bit of an overreaction to expel a child for bringing aspirin to school. But then again, I have never actually heard of that happening (not that it has not).
My suggestion... If you don't like the attitude of professors, become a professor and fix it. If the only argument heard is the one you don't like, give the other argument... even in a class committed to "white male bashing". On the other hand, I have heard some very intelligent and strong political speeches by professors of all subjects. These arguments are typically far more intelligent than the average politician’s speeches. Perhaps the best place to hear intelligent things is from learned people.
I expect the leader of the free world to embrace freedom and civil rights.
I expect the leader of one of the most technologically advanced countries to at least be able to turn on a computer.
I expect the leader of one of the largest economies in the world to be able to successfully run a business.
I expect the leader of one of the strongest military in the world to know his history.
I expect the man with his finger on "the button" to at least know how to pronounce "nuclear"...
I simply expect a leader to be smarter than most of his followers.
I give our current leader a 0 on all counts.
We have colleges (I am speaking as a student of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA and I transferred from Temple University in Philly) that insist upon teaching you only one side of the argument. This is in whatever class your in. A simple class on cryptography (data encryption and decryption) is turned into a political statement class. If we can't seperate facts from personal opinion in class, of course people are going to go elsewhere for education. I once attended a class on equal opprotunity at Temple University and the instructor (female of Asian decent) said that she wasn't going to turn it into a white male bashing class on the first day. By the third class, it was a white male bashing class. There was very few white males in the class. BTW, this was a required class at Temple.
So when you look at the supposide "brain drain" maybe we should look at those instructing the classes as well and see what exactly they are teaching rather than commenting that its just students going elsewhere.
Tolerance IS more important than balancing a check book. Check books are quickly becoming obsolete. Hopefully diversity will last forever. Even if check books were here to stay, there are more and better ways of managing your finances, but there is no better way to get along with the rest of the population than to understand them.
I do agree that it is a bit of an overreaction to expel a child for bringing aspirin to school. But then again, I have never actually heard of that happening (not that it has not).
My suggestion... If you don't like the attitude of professors, become a professor and fix it. If the only argument heard is the one you don't like, give the other argument... even in a class committed to "white male bashing". On the other hand, I have heard some very intelligent and strong political speeches by professors of all subjects. These arguments are typically far more intelligent than the average politician’s speeches. Perhaps the best place to hear intelligent things is from learned people.
I expect the leader of the free world to embrace freedom and civil rights.
I expect the leader of one of the most technologically advanced countries to at least be able to turn on a computer.
I expect the leader of one of the largest economies in the world to be able to successfully run a business.
I expect the leader of one of the strongest military in the world to know his history.
I expect the man with his finger on "the button" to at least know how to pronounce "nuclear"...
I simply expect a leader to be smarter than most of his followers.
I give our current leader a 0 on all counts.
Besides, it should be an honor for a thrid world, or an economically unstable nation's student to come to US not the other way around. If a guy comes from Russia or Middleast or China or Africa to US or europe or japan, they have to understand, that they are not the ones doing a favor, they are the ones being granted a favor. Without US or EU education, most of these people would end up living the dead end life or end up living a low class life. All in all, it should be the country recieving them that deserves applaud not them or their country.
not on an economic political level we are not. You mean a country like Afghanestan which has contributed very little if anything to the global peace, knowledge or stability is to be taken equal of that of US, Japan or Europe, where most of the advancements come from? Or a country like Uganda which has managed to give the world HIV, should be the same as a country like Greece? I really doubt that. Maybe by we are all the same, you mean WE PEOPLE (as in human beings) are all the same. Because the nations are definitely not the same, and that is the reason why the world has so much trouble.
QUOTE
We're all the same
not on an economic political level we are not. You mean a country like Afghanestan which has contributed very little if anything to the global peace, knowledge or stability is to be taken equal of that of US, Japan or Europe, where most of the advancements come from? Or a country like Uganda which has managed to give the world HIV, should be the same as a country like Greece? I really doubt that. Maybe by we are all the same, you mean WE PEOPLE (as in human beings) are all the same. Because the nations are definitely not the same, and that is the reason why the world has so much trouble.
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