To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: Time in space compared to earth
PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > Physics > Physics General

Nexus
Does time go faster in space, or slower, compared to Earth?

Would love to hear feedback.
*vanadesse
Well the speed that time 'goes' is relative to the object, so I imagine you are talking about a stationary object in space?
Also, by space do you mean space with no matter around it?

If so, by Einstein's law of relativity, time would go faster for the object since it is not moving versus how it would be moving with the planet around the sun if it was on Earth. According to the law of relativity, the faster an object moves, the slower time passes for that object. Therefore, time would pass faster for any object in space that is stationary.

Please tell me if I have completely missed the point biggrin.gif
Phaze
maybe it depends on the quantity of space it needs to interact with.. like hal arps red shift idea
2confused guy
Time would move much faster in space than on earth. The only exception is near a black hole, unless you were talking about w/o gravity. My answer is yes, time would move faster in space.
Guest
first there is no difference between constant motion and rest, it is all relative to some points perspective.
Time will go slower than on earth if you reach relativistic speeds with relationship to the earth.
If you were at rest with respect to the earth movement through the galaxy, time would be slightly faster but only slightly as the earth isn't moving close to relativistic speeds in relation to the galactic center.
*vanadesse
biggrin.gif love your signature Nexus
amrit
biggrin.gif

Hi
Time run in space only as a stream of material change. Space itself is a-temporal. The speed of material change (time) depends on the gravitational force; stronger the force, slower the speed of time.

yours, amrit

tongue.gif
Nexus
~vanadese~

Thanks you should see how much he hates kids like me and 2confuseguy!

~2confusedguy~

I concur. But how could that be proved?
2confused guy
Easy. One clock on earth, and the other out in space somewhere. both clocks were synchronized when the one in space left. It soon becomes apparent that the one in space is moving faster.
Nexus
~2confusedguy~

Or how about using 100 mice in space and 100 on Earth from the same species and family tree, and seeing how their lifespans were different? I think that would cause a big stir among the scientific community if the results proved positive.
2confused guy
Acually, that might be better than my clock idea.
*vanadesse
Nexus-

Nice idea, but in order for the mice plan to work, you'd have to have the group of mice in a completely stationary spot (in relation to earth of course) away from the gravitational pull of any other large objects somewhere in space for a mouse's lifetime, whatever that may be, which may prove to be a little difficult. If the spaceship or whatever that the mice were on was moving or accelerating, the lifespans of the mice in space would actually be longer. Plus, there are so many different things to take into account, such as the acceleration of the mice while the spaceship is being launched, etc.

2confused guy-

Good idea, check this out: http://einstein.stanford.edu/content/faqs/gpa_vessot.html

Apparently great minds think alike! biggrin.gif
Nexus
~vanadese~

Yeah, I guess you're right. I want to send to NASA and see if they will let me go into space to test that theory. laugh.gif
Guest_guest
This assumes that time on earth is a constant. Yet earth-stationary items are still rotating about it's core at more than 1000 mph, while the earth is revolving around the sun at more than 65,000 mph, and the solar system is moving within the galaxy at even greater speeds. So on this compound helical path, this supposed standard of time, the mice are aging at a singular rate (relatively) as compared to truly stationary mice, which appear to my earthbound mice to be at a fixed point in the evening sky - the difference in aspect doesn't appear to change unless they are not affected by the forces of gravity (hence they have to be far away from any known mass).

In the end you'd have mice who won't age as quickly at this fixed point than those who are still in motion but interact with the prevailing forces of gravity.
2confused guy
Then again, it depends where you are. If you're in the confines of deep space, the gavity working against you is almost negligible.
2confused guy
Oh Nexus, you never know. It was only a group of kids that thought they could go to the moon. In that, they succeded, because of the flexibility of NASA. You might be able to do just that.
Vanadesse*, I checked that site. Whoa, it mimicked my idea for the entire experiment! I guess great minds DO think alike. And you're also correct about the mice.
joeearl
Considering both SR and GR:
if the object were in a geostationary orbit of the earth (that is its position relative to you never changes) its relative velocity is zero, so there is no difference in time rates there

However due to the higher orbit of the mice in your spaceship they experience a weaker gravitational force, and hence their clocks run slightly faster

Of course that depends on whether the spaceship is close to some other massive object.
Gravity and relative velocities are the only thing that affect the relative rate of 'time'
Upisoft
QUOTE (2confused guy+Dec 21 2005, 05:38 PM)
Easy. One clock on earth, and the other out in space somewhere. both clocks were synchronized when the one in space left. It soon becomes apparent that the one in space is moving faster.

This experiment has been carried out about 30 years ago. First GPS satellite prototipe had an atomic clock with 1ns/day accuracy. The accuracy was enough to measure the effect.

2confused guy
AND... What happened?
Upisoft
QUOTE (2confused guy+Jan 3 2006, 10:56 PM)
AND... What happened?

Nothing unexpected. The result agreed both with SR and GR. They had to consider both the movement of the satellite around the Earth, which slowed the clock about 7ms per day, and the difference in the gravity field, which make them go faster about 45ms per day. The measured vague was about 38ms per day and agreed with the theory.

Of course, they may just lie about the result to make us believe in GR and SR ph34r.gif

You may search with Google using keywords "GPS and relativity" for more information.
2confused guy
Sorry, but I don't like cliffhangers.
Upisoft
QUOTE (2confused guy+Jan 4 2006, 11:06 PM)
Sorry, but I don't like cliffhangers.

Sorry, it's very painful to me to write long post in English. I'm not very verbose in my native language either.
2confused guy
Upisoft, don't worry. I can barely learn another language myself. laugh.gif Interesting that it proves both SR and GR. A little more insight on it would be appreciated.
Upisoft
QUOTE (2confused guy+Jan 5 2006, 10:40 PM)
Upisoft, don't worry. I can barely learn another language myself. laugh.gif Interesting that it proves both SR and GR. A little more insight on it would be appreciated.

I can give you only the information I found on Internet about that topic.
Here is the link to the site.
Hope this will be helpful.
2confused guy
Thanks, it was very helpful. I think now i understand a little more about GPS.
Rod
My clock here on earth is slower than than other clocks. And I've seen clocks,
where I've worked travel backwards..
So how can you create this experiment?
ourmanflint
If for some reason you found yourself in the vast emptiness of space such as that found between galaxies, then time would appear to run much faster than time in any of the galaxies around you. The associated mass of all the billions of stars within a galaxy would have a noticable effect on the relative speed of time, consistent with GR. The difference would be much greater than that between, clocks on Earth and any "local" space.

swansont
QUOTE (Upisoft+Dec 29 2005, 03:40 AM)
QUOTE (2confused guy+Dec 21 2005, 05:38 PM)
Easy. One clock on earth, and the other out in space somewhere. both clocks were synchronized when the one in space left. It soon becomes apparent that the one in space is moving faster.

This experiment has been carried out about 30 years ago. First GPS satellite prototipe had an atomic clock with 1ns/day accuracy. The accuracy was enough to measure the effect.

The Hafele-Keating experiment with atomic clocks on planes showed these same effects a few years earlier, though on a smaller scale because of the smaller change in altitude and slower speeds involved. Again, just as relativity predicted, within experimental uncertainty.
howtothinklikegod
Time does not exists.

Here's a proof:

First, let's assume time DOES exist, since we can all observe it so well, and then we will get to our conclusion that in fact, it does NOT exist.

If time exists, let's see what we know about time. It goes from the FUTURE into the PAST as we observe motion around our universe. Everything jumps from "could be" to "was", and there is no actual moment called the "Present", from our observable time. In fact what we call the present is simply our immediate past, our immediate memory of what had just occured. We do observe that time may slow down, and we have theories that we can even STOP it if we reach light speed.
*vanadesse
QUOTE
If time exists, let's see what we know about time. It goes from the FUTURE into the PAST as we observe motion around our universe. Everything jumps from "could be" to "was", and there is no actual moment called the "Present", from our observable time. In fact what we call the present is simply our immediate past, our immediate memory of what had just occured. We do observe that time may slow down, and we have theories that we can even STOP it if we reach light speed.

So... how does that prove that time does not exist?
Randy
to ALL of you! GRAVITY SLOWS TIME, MORE GRAVITY = SLOWER TIME. TIME IS SAID TO STOP AT A BLACK HOLES VORTEX GRAVITY IS SO GREAT THERE. This is from a perspective of zero gravity. The real ? is how much slower is time on the earths surface compared to what orbital position above our atmosphere.
amrit
What İs Time And How To Reach Beyond

İn the universe we can observe movement of material bodies and elementary particles into space only and not into time. Existence of time as a physical reality into which movement happens is an unproven preposition.

The idea here is quite revolutionary: time is what we measure with clocks. With clocks we measure duration of movement of material bodies and particles into space. This is what time is as a physical reality: time is motion.

Motion runs into space only and not in time, motion itself is time. Time is running into space only as motion, time is not running into space on its own, space itsel is a-temporal. The concept of space-time is here developed into the concept of a-temporal space in which time runs only as motion.

Before, now and after do not exist into a-temporal space, they exist only into the human mind as psychological time into which we experience motion. We have to distinquish between physical time that is motion and psychological time (mind structure) into which we experience motion.

motion (physical time) -- eyes (perception) -- mind (psychological time) -- experience

We “regulate”, “we tune” our psychological time with “clock time”. Clocks are mechanisms that run into a-temporal space only and not in time. Clock running itself is physical time. The speed of physical time is decreasing with the increasing of the strength of the gravitational field.

Time as “past”, “now” and “future” is a human dimension, it does not exist into the universe that is a-temporal, we could say also “eternal”, without a beginning and without an end. This is what some recent cosmological theories show: there was no creation, there was no beginning, universe is a self renewing system. The idea of the beginning of the universe is “borrowed” from religion. Universe is an a-temporal phenomena into a permanent dynamic equilibrium. *

We experience universe, nature and our life into time, we are not aware that past, present and future are existing only insıde of us and not outsıde, that life runs into space that itself is a-temporal. How to reach “beyond time”, beyond “temporal experience” into “a-temporal experience” of the universe, of the nature, of ourselves ? Simply: by watching (witnessing) the mind. This is what meditation is all about: how to slip out of the psychological time and have a direct experience. Different mystic path use different techniques, result is always the same: direct experience of the universe. They call it “eternal here and now”, “God”, “Brahman”, “Tao” ......., Einstein called it NOW.



Direct experience is timeless, is real, is objective, it is free of mind elaboration, it is not rational, it is not psychological, it is “conscios experience”. Conscios experience make us aware of the sacredness of the world. “Conscios experience” is the platform for communication beyond “religios”, “national”, “racial”, “cultural” or any other experience that keeps us separated from the universe.

Universe itself is God, there is no God beyond the Unıverse. Timeless experience shows that clearly. On this planet we are all brothers and sisters, together with animals and plants (that is the fact, we are aware of it or not) we are a consistent part of a wast universal evolution that leads us home: into eternal here and now into direct experience of time as a motion into a-temporal space.


İnternet Sources:

- * Sorli A. Fiscaletti D. (2005). Active Galactic Nucleus As a Renewing Systems Of the Universe Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 2, Num 6 www.ejtp.com

- Sorli A. (2004). Time Is Change. Episteme, Perugia, Italy, Number 8
http://www.dipmat.unipg.it/~bartocci/ep8/ep8.htm

- Sorli A., Sorli I. K. (2004). The Scientific Basis For The Development Of Human Consciousness. Episteme, Perrugia, Italy, Number 8, http://www.dipmat.unipg.it/~bartocci/ep8/ep8-sorli2.htm

- Sorli A. (2004), Timeless Space. Scientific and Medical Network
http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/Leadarts/sorli_space.htm

- Sorli A, Sorli I. (2004). A-temporal Gravitation, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 1, Num 2 http://www.ejtp.com/articles/EJTP4

- Sorli A, Sorli I. (2004). A-temporal Universe, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 3, Num 3 http://www.ejtp.com/articles/EJTP7

- Sorli A. Sorli I. (2004). Mathematical Time And Physical Time In The Theory Of Relativity, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 1, Num 4 http://www.ejtp.com/articles/ejtpv1i4p25

- Sorli A. Sorli K. (2004). Mind And Scientific Experience , NEUROSCIENZE.com
Vol 1, Num 0, http://www.neuroscienze.net/pdf/380.pdf

- Sorli A., Sorli I. (2005). A-Temporal Gravitation And Hypothetical Gravitational waves
Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 2, Num 5 www.ejtp.com

- Sorli A. Sorli I. (2005). Consciousness As A Research Tool Into Space And Time, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol 2, Num 6 www.ejtp.com

- Sorli A. A-Temporal Universe (2005) Scientific And Medical Network http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/Leadarts...i_atemporal.htm





Maltida
Hi Amrit,

QUOTE

İn the universe we can observe movement of material bodies and elementary particles into space only and not into time. Existence of time as a physical reality into which movement happens is an unproven preposition.

The idea here is quite revolutionary: time is what we measure with clocks. With clocks we measure duration of movement of material bodies and particles into space. This is what time is as a physical reality: time is motion.

Motion runs into space only and not in time, motion itself is time. Time is running into space only as motion, time is not running into space on its own, space itsel is a-temporal. The concept of space-time is here developed into the concept of a-temporal space in which time runs only as motion.


Time as a measure of MOTION can be traced to as early as Aristotle.
This probably comes about from our observation of the MOTION of the Sun through the sky.
But time need not be synonymous to MOTION.
Take three points on a straight line in space : Point A, Point B and Point C; where AB=1m, BC=9m.
Measure the time with a clock:
a] Project ball-E from point A to point C at 10m/s;
b] Project ball-F simultaneously from point A to point B at 1 m/s;
c] Leave the ball-G at point A.

Observations:
1) After 1 sec, ball-E is at C;
2) After 1 sec, ball-F is at B,
3) After 1 sec, ball-G is at A.

Question:
If TIME is MOTION, do you mean to say that TIME does not applies to ball-G and are perceive differently between ball-E and ball-F?

Yours ignoramus,

Maltida.
amrit
time is exactly motion
no more no less
motion (time) runs into a-temporal space
with clocks we measure duration of motion
Maltida
Hi Amrit,

Do you mean to say that when there is no motion, then there is no time?

A clock is just a device that serve as a "measure of duration" as well as "marker on the Universal timeline" that describe our physical universe. The inner mechanism of a clock uses a periodic signal that nature provides and is by no means absolute that cannot be adulterated by external forces.

You can be absolutely still or move at the speed of light within this Universal Frame. Absolute TIME move on relentlessly irrespective of which corner of the Universe that you may reside. It makes no difference whether your clock work in your reference frame or whether clock was even invented at all.

I think you should read the post by bang4thebuck ( http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...ndpost&p=109237 ).
I would appreciate it if you could define the terms that you used more simply and concisely than to continue to chant your mantra that remain obscure to simple folk like me.

Yours,

Maltida.
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.