anybody?
In last year or two i flipped from it is possible to not possible million times.
But now i think its not possible. Consider the idea of universe being in no time. Its always here and now. The only time that exists is in your brain. Time travel as virtual reality is possible of course. You can always reset a game for example. But that is absolutely related to subjective time. You can travel for example through your memory. That kind of time travel is possible. You can evoke strong emotions from any part of memory. First impressions...Its something like "relative distance" between differently coloured experiences.
But now i think its not possible. Consider the idea of universe being in no time. Its always here and now. The only time that exists is in your brain. Time travel as virtual reality is possible of course. You can always reset a game for example. But that is absolutely related to subjective time. You can travel for example through your memory. That kind of time travel is possible. You can evoke strong emotions from any part of memory. First impressions...Its something like "relative distance" between differently coloured experiences.
I believe time travel is not possible from the perspective of one person. Somehow we are limited to a constant flow of time from our subjective point of view, meaning it will always seem to travel at the same speed to one observer, no matter his location or speed.
However, when you have two observers located in different locations, say, one in intergalactic space (or here on Earth), and one near a supermassive object, if you were somehow able to reunite them instantly, a different span of time will have passed for one relative to the other. The same is true for two individuals traveling at different speeds relative to one another.
In other words, if you were theoretically able to teleport one of two twins near a supermassive object, and then bring them back after a given amount of earth-time, the one who was teleported there and back again would have aged less relative to the one who stayed on Earth. The same is true if you were to accelerate the previously teleported twin to a velocity approaching that of light (relative to Earth) for a given amount of time.
Of course, that's all special relativity, and may not have been what you were talking about, but it serves to demonstrate that time travel is possible, if only via relativity.
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong
However, when you have two observers located in different locations, say, one in intergalactic space (or here on Earth), and one near a supermassive object, if you were somehow able to reunite them instantly, a different span of time will have passed for one relative to the other. The same is true for two individuals traveling at different speeds relative to one another.
In other words, if you were theoretically able to teleport one of two twins near a supermassive object, and then bring them back after a given amount of earth-time, the one who was teleported there and back again would have aged less relative to the one who stayed on Earth. The same is true if you were to accelerate the previously teleported twin to a velocity approaching that of light (relative to Earth) for a given amount of time.
Of course, that's all special relativity, and may not have been what you were talking about, but it serves to demonstrate that time travel is possible, if only via relativity.
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong
hello JoeGee 
i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel.
i time travel, every second, every minute, every day etc. i time travelled through time from yesterday to today. if time travel was not possible how could i be here today ?
i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel.
i time travel, every second, every minute, every day etc. i time travelled through time from yesterday to today. if time travel was not possible how could i be here today ?
Everything material seems to travel in time.
Also depending on mass acceleration etc everything have different 'time frames' (a black hole f ex).
What is truly strange is that the observer will observe all those 'time frames' as consisting of a whole.
To me that implies that time may be a construct of something else. Why?
Well if time really was a independent force existing in one mode macroscopically (flow and direction) but also being perceived by us as a 'whole' then how can it differ by gravitational forces or acceleration?
It is very irritating to know that in that other 'timeframe' you wold age faster as compared with your twin:) if observed by a third party that is.
And it's even more irritating to know that this 'third party' would be able to observe both twins through his super telescope no matter what 'time frames' they might be in. Also it seems that when in QM time loses its direction. There it can 'walk' both ways.
But time exist, we all know that we are 'traveling' in time from our birth to our death.
Btw: Photons are said to be massless and they too exist inside our perception.
You will have no trouble observing if it's sunny or night:)
So? Time extends to them too:)
which brings us to a new phenomena.
Photons moves at 'c' in space but build no 'relative mass' as far as i know.
They also have what's called a instant acceleration.
That means that all measuring in time considering the 'birth' of a photon until we observe it moving is meaningless. There are none.
((The explanation for that according to my views would be its 'rest masslessness'::))
So they do seem to be existing 'out of time' and yet they are 'inside' too as we can observe them moving.
Also depending on mass acceleration etc everything have different 'time frames' (a black hole f ex).
What is truly strange is that the observer will observe all those 'time frames' as consisting of a whole.
To me that implies that time may be a construct of something else. Why?
Well if time really was a independent force existing in one mode macroscopically (flow and direction) but also being perceived by us as a 'whole' then how can it differ by gravitational forces or acceleration?
It is very irritating to know that in that other 'timeframe' you wold age faster as compared with your twin:) if observed by a third party that is.
And it's even more irritating to know that this 'third party' would be able to observe both twins through his super telescope no matter what 'time frames' they might be in. Also it seems that when in QM time loses its direction. There it can 'walk' both ways.
But time exist, we all know that we are 'traveling' in time from our birth to our death.
Btw: Photons are said to be massless and they too exist inside our perception.
You will have no trouble observing if it's sunny or night:)
So? Time extends to them too:)
which brings us to a new phenomena.
Photons moves at 'c' in space but build no 'relative mass' as far as i know.
They also have what's called a instant acceleration.
That means that all measuring in time considering the 'birth' of a photon until we observe it moving is meaningless. There are none.
((The explanation for that according to my views would be its 'rest masslessness'::))
So they do seem to be existing 'out of time' and yet they are 'inside' too as we can observe them moving.
QUOTE (yor_on+Nov 29 2007, 10:00 PM)
So they do seem to be existing 'out of time' and yet they are 'inside' too as we can observe them moving.
I would quote your entire post but i am changing my mind for one billionth time. There is a possibility of absolute time reference which is instant. And if you expand such thing you have a relative space-time. Thus all universes are connected by absolute time. Thus when you travel to your past for example what you are really doing is temporarly going back through an instant to get to other path. Thus traveling through time is like traveling through space somehow. And all this might be connected to electron. As the ideas circle around that electron might be a black hole actually. Thus you can get to an instant thus "absolute time" through an expanded electron. Electrons are kind of portals and builders and whatever you want. Well sounds like sci-fi but as crazy as it seems as real as well.
Additionaly it would follow that there is a constraint. You cannot observe reverse reality. You always observe forward. So basically negative time as lets say negative or positive 0 doesnt exist. Absolute time is 0 basically. That which everything is connected with. Sounds like virtual reality. And when you travel to past you are doing that through an instant. Its not like you are making some kind of super twisted linear motion or something. Its epxansion and contraction or so it seems.
I would quote your entire post but i am changing my mind for one billionth time. There is a possibility of absolute time reference which is instant. And if you expand such thing you have a relative space-time. Thus all universes are connected by absolute time. Thus when you travel to your past for example what you are really doing is temporarly going back through an instant to get to other path. Thus traveling through time is like traveling through space somehow. And all this might be connected to electron. As the ideas circle around that electron might be a black hole actually. Thus you can get to an instant thus "absolute time" through an expanded electron. Electrons are kind of portals and builders and whatever you want. Well sounds like sci-fi but as crazy as it seems as real as well.
Additionaly it would follow that there is a constraint. You cannot observe reverse reality. You always observe forward. So basically negative time as lets say negative or positive 0 doesnt exist. Absolute time is 0 basically. That which everything is connected with. Sounds like virtual reality. And when you travel to past you are doing that through an instant. Its not like you are making some kind of super twisted linear motion or something. Its epxansion and contraction or so it seems.
you can travel into space only and not in time
time is duration of your tavel into space
time is duration of your tavel into space
Hello Amrit
Time as duration is relative.
–Basically you are talking about relative time. Absolute “time” is instant.
Einstein said that if relativity wasn’t as it is everything would happen all at once. Instant is absolute. Its not exactly like Einstein thinks of it - he thinks of it as absolute space.
Absolute time is an eternal instant-now and infinite relative space. The other end is absolute space. Which means it has infinite relative time. This is what Einstein in my opinion was refering to and most probably couldn’t figure out what the heck is all that infinite relative time doing there in such small absolute space. Why?
Something had to be wrong. Basically nothing was wrong. It was incomplete concept. Thus you need two absolute states and two relative states of space-time. What Einstein did in my opinion, is he took relative time as absolute time and he took both states of space. Absolute and relative. Thus there was no logical symmetry with time. But still from this you can refer to time dilation and length contraction. It is still observable but on a very subtle scales.
From what I read Einstein said that there is something special about now. And this is what is special. Its infinite relative space. Basically infinite eternity.
Time as duration is relative.
–Basically you are talking about relative time. Absolute “time” is instant.
Einstein said that if relativity wasn’t as it is everything would happen all at once. Instant is absolute. Its not exactly like Einstein thinks of it - he thinks of it as absolute space.
Absolute time is an eternal instant-now and infinite relative space. The other end is absolute space. Which means it has infinite relative time. This is what Einstein in my opinion was refering to and most probably couldn’t figure out what the heck is all that infinite relative time doing there in such small absolute space. Why?
Something had to be wrong. Basically nothing was wrong. It was incomplete concept. Thus you need two absolute states and two relative states of space-time. What Einstein did in my opinion, is he took relative time as absolute time and he took both states of space. Absolute and relative. Thus there was no logical symmetry with time. But still from this you can refer to time dilation and length contraction. It is still observable but on a very subtle scales.
From what I read Einstein said that there is something special about now. And this is what is special. Its infinite relative space. Basically infinite eternity.
- Is possible ! 
- Krasnikov tube, Cuantic Vacuum, Heim, Droscher, Heisenberg, teories !
- questions is when ?!
- Krasnikov tube, Cuantic Vacuum, Heim, Droscher, Heisenberg, teories !
- questions is when ?!
QUOTE (kjw+Nov 29 2007, 08:01 PM)
hello JoeGee
i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel.
i time travel, every second, every minute, every day etc. i time travelled through time from yesterday to today. if time travel was not possible how could i be here today ?
- Solutions for warp drive is not under "relativity low" !
- To travel from Earth to Alfa Centauri (4,5 ly), we need the flat-space (krasnikov tube / Heim, Drosher, etc !!!).
- We need a rotative displey (tube or sphere), or inter-stelar tube construct by LASER beam, or plasma, or magnetizate substance hiper-accelerate (to c) !!!
i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel.
i time travel, every second, every minute, every day etc. i time travelled through time from yesterday to today. if time travel was not possible how could i be here today ?
- Solutions for warp drive is not under "relativity low" !
- To travel from Earth to Alfa Centauri (4,5 ly), we need the flat-space (krasnikov tube / Heim, Drosher, etc !!!).
- We need a rotative displey (tube or sphere), or inter-stelar tube construct by LASER beam, or plasma, or magnetizate substance hiper-accelerate (to c) !!!
Possiblity not withstanding, please entertain this notion:
One thing I have never hear about in the discussion of time travel is the fact that earth, the solar system, the galaxy, they are all moving - rather rapidly I might add. So if time travel were possible (ignoring that as we live we're travelling through time - what a lame response to this topic...) - ask this: would it be instantaneous travel within the same UNIVERSAL COORDINATES that you are contained in at the time of travel, or would it also transport you across space, maintaining your EARTH COORDINATES, as well? I would tend to believe that you would maintain the same UNIVERSAL COORDINATES, which means that even traveling a fraction of a second forward or backward in time, your UNIVERSAL COORDINATES would no longer be on the surface of the earth and you would find that your destination was some point floating in space - or possibly inside the planet or the sun or whatever happened to be occupying those particular UNIVERSAL COORDINATES at the destination time. This would be wrong of course, if the earth were indeed the center of the universe and did not rotate.
One thing I have never hear about in the discussion of time travel is the fact that earth, the solar system, the galaxy, they are all moving - rather rapidly I might add. So if time travel were possible (ignoring that as we live we're travelling through time - what a lame response to this topic...) - ask this: would it be instantaneous travel within the same UNIVERSAL COORDINATES that you are contained in at the time of travel, or would it also transport you across space, maintaining your EARTH COORDINATES, as well? I would tend to believe that you would maintain the same UNIVERSAL COORDINATES, which means that even traveling a fraction of a second forward or backward in time, your UNIVERSAL COORDINATES would no longer be on the surface of the earth and you would find that your destination was some point floating in space - or possibly inside the planet or the sun or whatever happened to be occupying those particular UNIVERSAL COORDINATES at the destination time. This would be wrong of course, if the earth were indeed the center of the universe and did not rotate.
My last post brings me to another question regarding relativity. Einstein said that as you increase speed time slows.. what if you stopped? relative to the universe - relative to everything - but found yourself in a state of no linear movement? It would appear that you were traveling very fast away from earth, would time then increase to infinite passage? This is creating a relative speed away from earth that is IN REALITY - deceleration to 0 linear motion. Reality, in this case, being relativity to EVERYTHING. i don't think that the physics (arm-chair physicists at least - excluding the elite minds) takes this all to important notion very seriously. it does not think - generally - of relationships of everything to everything and base its science on the universe, but merely relative to earthbound, with a casual reference to relationships the the WHOLE of EVERYTHING. it's as hard of a concept - and is really the same concept as that of infinity - which I don't think most people get. how can you put boundaries on the universe - the universe is the WHOLE of EVERYTHING and IS infinite - there are no boundaries on infinity - by definition. it doesn't not exist because you can't see it or even imagine it.
I better stop now before I start sounding like I'm making a case for the existence of god...
I better stop now before I start sounding like I'm making a case for the existence of god...
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howhiareu Posted on Today at 1:57 AM ignoring that as we live we're travelling through time - what a lame response to this topic...
the topic is "time travel, impossible or improbable?" it does not mention travel to the past or the future. my response
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| howhiareu Posted on Today at 1:57 AM ignoring that as we live we're travelling through time - what a lame response to this topic... |
the topic is "time travel, impossible or improbable?" it does not mention travel to the past or the future. my response
kjw Posted on Nov 30 2007, 06:01 AM i time travel, every second, every minute, every day etc. i time travelled through time from yesterday to today. if time travel was not possible how could i be here today ?
is perfectly valid in terms of the topic. my comment was made to show that unless you ask a specific question you may not get a specific answer
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kjw Posted on Nov 30 2007, 06:01 AM i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel.
considering JoeGee did not participate any discussion after the initial post, not even to clarify what JoeGee means by time travel, JoeGee is probably a troll.
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| QUOTE |
| kjw Posted on Nov 30 2007, 06:01 AM i think you need to be a bit more specific in your question and define what you mean by time travel. |
considering JoeGee did not participate any discussion after the initial post, not even to clarify what JoeGee means by time travel, JoeGee is probably a troll.
howhiareu Posted on Today at 2:12 AM what if you stopped? relative to the universe - relative to everything - but found yourself in a state of no linear movement? It would appear that you were traveling very fast away from earth, would time then increase to infinite passage?
if you found yourself in a state of no linear motion, relative to everything, how could you be traveling very fast away from the earth ?
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I better stop now before I start sounding like I'm making a case for the existence of god...
then why stop? can you prove the existence of god? wait a minute are you and JoeGee a trolling tag team.
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kjw: my response is perfectly valid in terms of the topic. my comment was made to show that unless you ask a specific question you may not get a specific answer
Purely argumentative and not a constructive comment. Your reasoning was childish. wasn't even referring to your post (Did I quote you?) I see this comment in time travel posts all over the place - If I had been picking on YOU, kjw, you'd of known it. You're so vain kjw - you probably thought that post was about you...
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| kjw: my response is perfectly valid in terms of the topic. my comment was made to show that unless you ask a specific question you may not get a specific answer |
Purely argumentative and not a constructive comment. Your reasoning was childish. wasn't even referring to your post (Did I quote you?) I see this comment in time travel posts all over the place - If I had been picking on YOU, kjw, you'd of known it. You're so vain kjw - you probably thought that post was about you...
kjw: if you found yourself in a state of no linear motion, relative to everything, how could you be traveling very fast away from the earth ?
You quoted me but didn't READ what I wrote - I said "...It would appear that you were traveling very...
APPEAR - NOT WOULD BE - and as the earth is in constant motion in the solar system, in the galaxy etc, etc... IT WOULD APPEAR that you were moving away from earth at a high rate of speed - this is true because to achieve the stop, you'd need a vehicle capable of thrust to come to a stop and this would involve a rocket (or some vehicle) leaving earth in the direction required to stop the linear motion. Like a boat driving upstream in a river to not be moving relative the the shore, but - water speed would be that of the flow of the river, just to stay in 1 place... Think about it.
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kjw: ...then why stop? can you prove the existence of god?
Again READ what I say, try to comprehend. I stopped because the argument I was making is the very argument that religious folks trying to convince someone that they need faith and god and that no proof is necessary. I was making a joke of my own argument.
You are obviously not one of the elite minds I excluded - and you need to know... you aren't the center of the universe, kjw.
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howhiareu Posted on Today at 7:38 AM You're so vain kjw - you probably thought that post was about you...
my post satisfied your criteria of being lame. i did not anticipate that you would confuse implication with vanity.QUOTE (->
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| howhiareu Posted on Today at 7:38 AM You're so vain kjw - you probably thought that post was about you... |
my post satisfied your criteria of being lame. i did not anticipate that you would confuse implication with vanity.
If I had been picking on YOU, kjw, you'd of known it.
If I had been picking on YOU, kjw, you'd of known it.
opps i have spilt some of vanity on you. may i ask how this comment is not purely argumentative and not a constructive comment and therefor not childish?
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You are obviously not one of the elite minds I excluded
it is obvious to me as wellQUOTE (->
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| You are obviously not one of the elite minds I excluded |
it is obvious to me as well
and you need to know... you aren't the center of the universe, kjw.
and you need to know... you aren't the center of the universe, kjw.
and where would the centre be then?
If just the slightest shift in your position among probable realities results in your entering the wrong universe, we would all be in trouble. Instead we jitter about timelines and undergo continual timeline revisions yet somehow keep sharing the same universe. Maybe it is because when one shifts, everyone shifts, except there is no difference between the old and new universes but to those for whom the shift matters.
Example: today you need to experience a particular synchronicity which can only come about through a causal chain that originates yesterday, so yesterday must be altered so that you get your synchronicity today. So we go from universe A universe B, and B is identical to A except for a minor change yesterday that leads to your synchronicity. If that is the only change, then for me there is no difference between B and A, so you could shift a thousand times and each time I would be pulled along into the new universe with you but experience nothing different myself. That is how you can travel to new timelines without leaving anyone behind, and thus there is no "wrong" universe because everyone goes with you into the new, even if they remain the same.
Maybe that is the precondition of time travel, that you can only go where everyone can go, meaning you cannot branch onto a timeline where differences result in freewill violations galore. Like if you want to time travel to a universe where your jerk of a neighbor got killed in a car wreck last year -- maybe since it is not yet time for your neighbor to shuffle off this mortal coil, you'll be barred from entering that timeline. So you can see many restrictions on timeline travel here, but not so many that timeline travel is impossible.
Also when entering back into spacetime, it is presumable that you yourself would compile back into spacetime mode and assume the physical history and memory of that new universe. Thus you may not remember your original universe, only that you entered your time machine and now stepped out of it and life is pretty damn good. Another possible reason why there might be no wrong timeline.
In fact, we could be hopping timelines routinely in our daily lives and not remember it because every time the timeline changes, so does our memory and environment. Therefore with consciousness being the navigator, by changing your consciousness you would seemingly experience a change in the kinds of experiences you attract, not knowing that you are simply reorienting the vector of your routine timeline hops.
Thanks for the rest of your two posts, they were thought provoking and I wished to add the above as further food for thought. So you experienced a temporal glitch, eh? Lucky you to have personal proof of what will take mainstream science another century to observe in the lab, notwithstanding blackops science that figured all this out decades ago. As for communications from the future, I think we experience one form of this as intuition as we feel the various feedback flows from impending probable futures.
I don't see how this can be. I fight with this concept all the time. While I don't believe in pre-destiny, nor do I believe that anything can ever be any different than the way it will be.
Is the Jittering about timelines where free will enters? free will to pick the timeline that contains the results we desire? And the 'soul' be the sailor of time? Isn't the 'soul'concept necessary for this model? Required as the individual consciousness of the infinite "I"'s that occupy said individual's space within alternate timelines
Well that's assuming you are using velocity to create time dilation. If instead you are using a gravity field, then energy for acceleration need not be provided. Consider even a black hole - does it take infinite energy for a spaceship to fall into its event horizon? Of course not, yet at the event horizon the gravitational potential is equivalent to that experienced by that ship were it to actually reach light speed. That value is negative half the speed of light squared.
The problem with mass as the gravity source is that it always gives off an inversely diminishing gravitational potential field, one with an inverse square gradient and thus severe gravitational forces in the case of black holes. Not good.
But if you knew the relationship between electromagnetism and gravity, you could employ electromagnetic engineering toward the creation of artificial gravity potential fields as uniform as possible within the time travel chamber to avoid gradients that would result in uncomfortable gravitational forces (since gravitational acceleration is the negative gradient of the gravitational potential -- if no gradient then no acceleration and no force). Then you can play with the time rate or create an event horizon around the chamber without those within it feeling any forces at all. Gravitational potential is what sets the time rate. You don't need a black hole with its intense gravitational gradients to jump into hyperspace. All you need is a comfortable jumproom that is artificially severed from our spacetime. Like blowing a bubble.
Well that's assuming you are using velocity to create time dilation. If instead you are using a gravity field, then energy for acceleration need not be provided. Consider even a black hole - does it take infinite energy for a spaceship to fall into its event horizon? Of course not, yet at the event horizon the gravitational potential is equivalent to that experienced by that ship were it to actually reach light speed. That value is negative half the speed of light squared.
The problem with mass as the gravity source is that it always gives off an inversely diminishing gravitational potential field, one with an inverse square gradient and thus severe gravitational forces in the case of black holes. Not good.
But if you knew the relationship between electromagnetism and gravity, you could employ electromagnetic engineering toward the creation of artificial gravity potential fields as uniform as possible within the time travel chamber to avoid gradients that would result in uncomfortable gravitational forces (since gravitational acceleration is the negative gradient of the gravitational potential -- if no gradient then no acceleration and no force). Then you can play with the time rate or create an event horizon around the chamber without those within it feeling any forces at all. Gravitational potential is what sets the time rate. You don't need a black hole with its intense gravitational gradients to jump into hyperspace. All you need is a comfortable jumproom that is artificially severed from our spacetime. Like blowing a bubble.
Is the Jittering about timelines where free will enters? free will to pick the timeline that contains the results we desire? And the 'soul' be the sailor of time? Isn't the 'soul'concept necessary for this model?
Yes, either you believe in consciousness / mind / soul, or else you believe that quantum indeterminacy is due entirely to pure randomness brought on by hidden but deterministic variables. I very much doubt the latter because my self-awareness alone (and the entire field of metaphysics and parapsychology) throw more evidence toward the side of consciousness / mind / soul while the randomness and hidden variable explanation sounds more like a rationalization of ignorance. The jittering would be due to consciousness, to freewill. Timeline manipulations -- well, there could be some intelligence involved there, but it might not always be human.
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IT WOULD APPEAR that you were moving away from earth at a high rate of speed - this is true because to achieve the stop, you'd need a vehicle capable of thrust to come to a stop and this would involve a rocket (or some vehicle) leaving earth in the direction required to stop the linear motion. Like a boat driving upstream in a river to not be moving relative the the shore, but - water speed would be that of the flow of the river, just to stay in 1 place... Think about it.
i have thought about it and i still do not get it. i can not see how it fits withQUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| IT WOULD APPEAR that you were moving away from earth at a high rate of speed - this is true because to achieve the stop, you'd need a vehicle capable of thrust to come to a stop and this would involve a rocket (or some vehicle) leaving earth in the direction required to stop the linear motion. Like a boat driving upstream in a river to not be moving relative the the shore, but - water speed would be that of the flow of the river, just to stay in 1 place... Think about it. |
i have thought about it and i still do not get it. i can not see how it fits with
howhiareu Posted on Today at 2:12 AM what if you stopped? relative to the universe - relative to everything
howhiareu Posted on Today at 2:12 AM what if you stopped? relative to the universe - relative to everything
because in your boat analogy, even though you have no relative motion with the shore, you still have motion relative to the water i.e. you have not stopped relative to everything only stopped relative to a certain thing.
in order for you to stop, relative to everything, would require all objects in the universe to stop moving, not just your rocket/boat and the earth/shore.
in order for you to stop, relative to everything, would require all objects in the universe to stop moving, not just your rocket/boat and the earth/shore.
There are two conditions that would need to be met before time travel was possible. First time would need to be as much a component of time and space is as distance is to space. Second there would need to be a density of time meaning a density of space. Neither condition is supported by current physics.
That is not to say it is not possible, it just says that currently no scientific thought is in that direction. Probably because it would mean that the universe is stranger and stranger than a human being could possibly imagine. No scientist with any sort of reputation would be brave or foolish enough to look along those lines even.
For a start here ... http://www.physorg.com/news117128088.html
This would be the same galaxy as a reflection of itself. The high energy death star would be at a point t = 0 to us and we would be looking at an angle as space warps back on itself. Put simply time runs backwards and forwards much like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ and so on. The general progression would be forwards ---> but there would be the golden opportunity at each turn point for interference. A turn point might be characterized by a reversing of the poles.
It would be weird as there would then be a point where by looking sideways one could see the system one was in, in a corresponding spacial reference frame say much like this ... http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1535
Don't worry it is considered young. However if it was us that inner dust says we didn't patch up our differences.
Cheers.
That is not to say it is not possible, it just says that currently no scientific thought is in that direction. Probably because it would mean that the universe is stranger and stranger than a human being could possibly imagine. No scientist with any sort of reputation would be brave or foolish enough to look along those lines even.
For a start here ... http://www.physorg.com/news117128088.html
This would be the same galaxy as a reflection of itself. The high energy death star would be at a point t = 0 to us and we would be looking at an angle as space warps back on itself. Put simply time runs backwards and forwards much like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ and so on. The general progression would be forwards ---> but there would be the golden opportunity at each turn point for interference. A turn point might be characterized by a reversing of the poles.
It would be weird as there would then be a point where by looking sideways one could see the system one was in, in a corresponding spacial reference frame say much like this ... http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1535
Don't worry it is considered young. However if it was us that inner dust says we didn't patch up our differences.
Cheers.
Time travel is simple. Just lower the gravitational potential uniformly around you until you are pinched off from spacetime and ejected into hyperspace, then you are free to travel the quantum probable timeline networks and re-emerge into spacetime in your chosen universe, location, and moment. You are basically creating a local force-free black hole (due to the lack of gradient in the gravitational potential) so that space contracts to zero and time dilates to infinity. Then your wave function loses its spatio-temporal components, leaving only quantum phase as the remaining variable. This quantum phase directly correlates with the universe / timeline in question, and it is selectable by your consciousness while out in hyperspace. But without an advanced level of consciousness you are liable to spin out and get lost there or enter spacetime again at some uncontrolled coordinate. Therefore don't try this at home! As if you could, haha.
QUOTE (avec+Dec 19 2007, 09:28 AM)
Time travel is simple. Just lower the gravitational potential uniformly around you until you are pinched off from space-time and ejected into hyperspace, then you are free to travel the quantum probable time-line networks and re-emerge into space-time in your chosen universe, location, and moment. You are basically creating a local force-free black hole (due to the lack of gradient in the gravitational potential) so that space contracts to zero and time dilates to infinity. Then your wave function loses its spatio-temporal components, leaving only quantum phase as the remaining variable. This quantum phase directly correlates with the universe / timeline in question, and it is selectable by your consciousness while out in hyperspace. But without an advanced level of consciousness you are liable to spin out and get lost there or enter spacetime again at some uncontrolled coordinate. Therefore don't try this at home! As if you could, haha.
(my bold)
Yes that is using conventional quantum physics and assuming two time like lines that the six dimensions of quantum mechanics has with regard to Lorentz metric. The thing is for practical purposes most physics uses the restricted Lorentz transform in effect denying the existence of a second time like line possibility.
Then in addition to other theorized models currently in use there is no guarantee that it you will get back to the same universe once you exit your hyperspace ... so it may be an expensive energy intensive exercise for the wrong nett result. One could plot the characteristics of the stars say 50 to 100 light years around us to look for similar types of stars in other clusters.
But the one thing I am confident of is that there will not be a search of the Gliese system and a plot of the stars around the newly discovered Terran like world.
Because if there came a result that through a transform or deformation of space the stars around the best candidate were a match, and remembering that we ourselves are in two lines at the moment (dwarf galaxy crossing and such) so a simulation would need to look at crossing characteristics of two lines of stars. It wont be done because the consequences to physics would devastate the quantum and relativistic deadlock that has so effectively used two conflicting theories to strangle any better understanding of the one universe.
This can be found by reading this issue of Newscientist here ...
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2578.html
where one of the predictions is that there will be no new science discovered outside the scientific community. When one looks at the barriers in the way to new ideas outside the 'authorized scientific community' one can very well believe they meant every word of that highly prophetic statement
Cheers
(my bold)
Yes that is using conventional quantum physics and assuming two time like lines that the six dimensions of quantum mechanics has with regard to Lorentz metric. The thing is for practical purposes most physics uses the restricted Lorentz transform in effect denying the existence of a second time like line possibility.
Then in addition to other theorized models currently in use there is no guarantee that it you will get back to the same universe once you exit your hyperspace ... so it may be an expensive energy intensive exercise for the wrong nett result. One could plot the characteristics of the stars say 50 to 100 light years around us to look for similar types of stars in other clusters.
But the one thing I am confident of is that there will not be a search of the Gliese system and a plot of the stars around the newly discovered Terran like world.
Because if there came a result that through a transform or deformation of space the stars around the best candidate were a match, and remembering that we ourselves are in two lines at the moment (dwarf galaxy crossing and such) so a simulation would need to look at crossing characteristics of two lines of stars. It wont be done because the consequences to physics would devastate the quantum and relativistic deadlock that has so effectively used two conflicting theories to strangle any better understanding of the one universe.
This can be found by reading this issue of Newscientist here ...
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2578.html
where one of the predictions is that there will be no new science discovered outside the scientific community. When one looks at the barriers in the way to new ideas outside the 'authorized scientific community' one can very well believe they meant every word of that highly prophetic statement
Cheers
No reply yet ... maybe the big words I use put people off. It is curious but here is a person who has traveled in time albeit a few seconds forward and experienced the rewrite in small detail of reality and there is absolutely not the slightest bit of interest shown.
Some time in my early teens or maybe even earlier I had worked out my contact was an accident from the future. So I have had over thirty years of just accepting time travel and letting the sub conscious loose on the multi ended and vary potential affects it could have on a human being.
Sure I was quite surprised just over a year ago that there still is just so little thought given to the matter, that is why I got interested. Just wait until you start getting time reversed transmissions from the future, that will be a hoot. Soon as there is a future with the good sense not to communicate there will possibly be a future.
Again sure there is a lot of evidence in the timeline of future interference but the overall picture of what the future sees of the past will not necessarily be the actual experienced past as for the participants. There are both natural and unnatural events that cause almost imperceptible changes to the timeline. So depending on how far back you look your past is not your real past and your future is not dependent on your exact existence as of the reality as you perceive it happening to you now.
It still means take care of what you have got but there may just be a depth of information locked in the strange minds of multi reality schizoid minds than a 'normal' person might like to give credit to.
Some time in my early teens or maybe even earlier I had worked out my contact was an accident from the future. So I have had over thirty years of just accepting time travel and letting the sub conscious loose on the multi ended and vary potential affects it could have on a human being.
Sure I was quite surprised just over a year ago that there still is just so little thought given to the matter, that is why I got interested. Just wait until you start getting time reversed transmissions from the future, that will be a hoot. Soon as there is a future with the good sense not to communicate there will possibly be a future.
Again sure there is a lot of evidence in the timeline of future interference but the overall picture of what the future sees of the past will not necessarily be the actual experienced past as for the participants. There are both natural and unnatural events that cause almost imperceptible changes to the timeline. So depending on how far back you look your past is not your real past and your future is not dependent on your exact existence as of the reality as you perceive it happening to you now.
It still means take care of what you have got but there may just be a depth of information locked in the strange minds of multi reality schizoid minds than a 'normal' person might like to give credit to.
QUOTE
Then in addition to other theorized models currently in use there is no guarantee that it you will get back to the same universe once you exit your hyperspace
If just the slightest shift in your position among probable realities results in your entering the wrong universe, we would all be in trouble. Instead we jitter about timelines and undergo continual timeline revisions yet somehow keep sharing the same universe. Maybe it is because when one shifts, everyone shifts, except there is no difference between the old and new universes but to those for whom the shift matters.
Example: today you need to experience a particular synchronicity which can only come about through a causal chain that originates yesterday, so yesterday must be altered so that you get your synchronicity today. So we go from universe A universe B, and B is identical to A except for a minor change yesterday that leads to your synchronicity. If that is the only change, then for me there is no difference between B and A, so you could shift a thousand times and each time I would be pulled along into the new universe with you but experience nothing different myself. That is how you can travel to new timelines without leaving anyone behind, and thus there is no "wrong" universe because everyone goes with you into the new, even if they remain the same.
Maybe that is the precondition of time travel, that you can only go where everyone can go, meaning you cannot branch onto a timeline where differences result in freewill violations galore. Like if you want to time travel to a universe where your jerk of a neighbor got killed in a car wreck last year -- maybe since it is not yet time for your neighbor to shuffle off this mortal coil, you'll be barred from entering that timeline. So you can see many restrictions on timeline travel here, but not so many that timeline travel is impossible.
Also when entering back into spacetime, it is presumable that you yourself would compile back into spacetime mode and assume the physical history and memory of that new universe. Thus you may not remember your original universe, only that you entered your time machine and now stepped out of it and life is pretty damn good. Another possible reason why there might be no wrong timeline.
In fact, we could be hopping timelines routinely in our daily lives and not remember it because every time the timeline changes, so does our memory and environment. Therefore with consciousness being the navigator, by changing your consciousness you would seemingly experience a change in the kinds of experiences you attract, not knowing that you are simply reorienting the vector of your routine timeline hops.
Thanks for the rest of your two posts, they were thought provoking and I wished to add the above as further food for thought. So you experienced a temporal glitch, eh? Lucky you to have personal proof of what will take mainstream science another century to observe in the lab, notwithstanding blackops science that figured all this out decades ago. As for communications from the future, I think we experience one form of this as intuition as we feel the various feedback flows from impending probable futures.
QUOTE
we jitter about timelines and undergo continual timeline revisions
I don't see how this can be. I fight with this concept all the time. While I don't believe in pre-destiny, nor do I believe that anything can ever be any different than the way it will be.
Is the Jittering about timelines where free will enters? free will to pick the timeline that contains the results we desire? And the 'soul' be the sailor of time? Isn't the 'soul'concept necessary for this model? Required as the individual consciousness of the infinite "I"'s that occupy said individual's space within alternate timelines
The arrow of time points in only one direction. You cannot go backwards. A simple thought experiment involving quantum mechanics illustrates. If you could go back, then the statistics from QM would offer you a different universe the further back you went. That would not be time travel per se, but travel to a different universe.
Those who speculated about achieving light speed and infinite time dilation have ignored that relativity also states that achieving infinite velocity requires infinite energy.
Alternate universe speculations are interesting, but there is not a single piece of evidence that they exist. Even if they exist, travel to them does not imply time travel.
So onward and forward forever!
Those who speculated about achieving light speed and infinite time dilation have ignored that relativity also states that achieving infinite velocity requires infinite energy.
Alternate universe speculations are interesting, but there is not a single piece of evidence that they exist. Even if they exist, travel to them does not imply time travel.
So onward and forward forever!
QUOTE
Those who speculated about achieving light speed and infinite time dilation have ignored that relativity also states that achieving infinite velocity requires infinite energy.
Well that's assuming you are using velocity to create time dilation. If instead you are using a gravity field, then energy for acceleration need not be provided. Consider even a black hole - does it take infinite energy for a spaceship to fall into its event horizon? Of course not, yet at the event horizon the gravitational potential is equivalent to that experienced by that ship were it to actually reach light speed. That value is negative half the speed of light squared.
The problem with mass as the gravity source is that it always gives off an inversely diminishing gravitational potential field, one with an inverse square gradient and thus severe gravitational forces in the case of black holes. Not good.
But if you knew the relationship between electromagnetism and gravity, you could employ electromagnetic engineering toward the creation of artificial gravity potential fields as uniform as possible within the time travel chamber to avoid gradients that would result in uncomfortable gravitational forces (since gravitational acceleration is the negative gradient of the gravitational potential -- if no gradient then no acceleration and no force). Then you can play with the time rate or create an event horizon around the chamber without those within it feeling any forces at all. Gravitational potential is what sets the time rate. You don't need a black hole with its intense gravitational gradients to jump into hyperspace. All you need is a comfortable jumproom that is artificially severed from our spacetime. Like blowing a bubble.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Those who speculated about achieving light speed and infinite time dilation have ignored that relativity also states that achieving infinite velocity requires infinite energy. |
Well that's assuming you are using velocity to create time dilation. If instead you are using a gravity field, then energy for acceleration need not be provided. Consider even a black hole - does it take infinite energy for a spaceship to fall into its event horizon? Of course not, yet at the event horizon the gravitational potential is equivalent to that experienced by that ship were it to actually reach light speed. That value is negative half the speed of light squared.
The problem with mass as the gravity source is that it always gives off an inversely diminishing gravitational potential field, one with an inverse square gradient and thus severe gravitational forces in the case of black holes. Not good.
But if you knew the relationship between electromagnetism and gravity, you could employ electromagnetic engineering toward the creation of artificial gravity potential fields as uniform as possible within the time travel chamber to avoid gradients that would result in uncomfortable gravitational forces (since gravitational acceleration is the negative gradient of the gravitational potential -- if no gradient then no acceleration and no force). Then you can play with the time rate or create an event horizon around the chamber without those within it feeling any forces at all. Gravitational potential is what sets the time rate. You don't need a black hole with its intense gravitational gradients to jump into hyperspace. All you need is a comfortable jumproom that is artificially severed from our spacetime. Like blowing a bubble.
Is the Jittering about timelines where free will enters? free will to pick the timeline that contains the results we desire? And the 'soul' be the sailor of time? Isn't the 'soul'concept necessary for this model?
Yes, either you believe in consciousness / mind / soul, or else you believe that quantum indeterminacy is due entirely to pure randomness brought on by hidden but deterministic variables. I very much doubt the latter because my self-awareness alone (and the entire field of metaphysics and parapsychology) throw more evidence toward the side of consciousness / mind / soul while the randomness and hidden variable explanation sounds more like a rationalization of ignorance. The jittering would be due to consciousness, to freewill. Timeline manipulations -- well, there could be some intelligence involved there, but it might not always be human.
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