I'm doing some research for a sci-fi film screenplay and I need to come up with some convincing technology regarding a colony ship built some 400 years from now. The thing is, the ship needs to last in space for 4 billion years. The only idea I've had so far is that the ship is crawling with nanotech machines which are constantly repairing and maintaining the ship and are reproducing in order to stay in tip top condition themselves. I have to admit I'm a little out of my depth as far as this sort of thing goes. Any practical ideas on what we might expect to see as real world solutions for the extreme longevity of ships in space would be very welcome.
Since you are talking advanced nanotech, there are different ways this can be used.
1. Advanced nanotech will be able to build precisely, atom by atom. The structure and hull of a ship could be solid diamond. We know diamonds are capable of lasting billions of years, the ship could be built to last that long. Electronics and moving parts can be designed and built to be perfect, they won't ever wear out. They could of course be damaged, but could be built pretty tough.
2. Nano-robots could be constantly patrolling, assessing and maintaining the structure and components of a ship. As structures are damaged by radiation or impacts they are constantly replaced. These nanobots would probably break down fairly regularly, so the ship would need to be able to build a constant supply.
3. The ship could be designed more like a living organism. The whole of the ship would be made of small interlocking components, each able to communicate. Each component is able to determine if its neighbouring components break down. It could then produce or order a replacement.
A ship designed to last as long as you suggest would probably use all of the above.
You could use a fleet of ships as well. Read The Reality Dysfunction by Peter F. Hamilton, he uses living biotech designed spaceships that lay eggs when they die. The eggs spend about 20 years growing within the ring of a planet like saturn, "eating" rocks and dust.
Also have a look at the TV series Farscape, the main spaceship in the series, Moya, is an artificially designed living ship.
One question though. Why 4 billion years? That is about the age of the Earth and it would probably last longer than our sun.
1. Advanced nanotech will be able to build precisely, atom by atom. The structure and hull of a ship could be solid diamond. We know diamonds are capable of lasting billions of years, the ship could be built to last that long. Electronics and moving parts can be designed and built to be perfect, they won't ever wear out. They could of course be damaged, but could be built pretty tough.
2. Nano-robots could be constantly patrolling, assessing and maintaining the structure and components of a ship. As structures are damaged by radiation or impacts they are constantly replaced. These nanobots would probably break down fairly regularly, so the ship would need to be able to build a constant supply.
3. The ship could be designed more like a living organism. The whole of the ship would be made of small interlocking components, each able to communicate. Each component is able to determine if its neighbouring components break down. It could then produce or order a replacement.
A ship designed to last as long as you suggest would probably use all of the above.
You could use a fleet of ships as well. Read The Reality Dysfunction by Peter F. Hamilton, he uses living biotech designed spaceships that lay eggs when they die. The eggs spend about 20 years growing within the ring of a planet like saturn, "eating" rocks and dust.
Also have a look at the TV series Farscape, the main spaceship in the series, Moya, is an artificially designed living ship.
One question though. Why 4 billion years? That is about the age of the Earth and it would probably last longer than our sun.
Thanks for your interesting response, N O M.
Why 4 billion years? Well, I need the ship to be re-entering our solar system at a time when the sun is taking on mass and dying. The ship would have left Earth sometime in the 25th century, carrying frozen colonists to a number of different star systems under the guidance of a powerful onboard A.I. system. From a scientific point of view, the story is a bit of a minefield. My biggest concern is that the ship has been travelling for 4 billion years and never finds a planet even remotely habitable. Is that entirely feasible or a bit of a stretch?
Why 4 billion years? Well, I need the ship to be re-entering our solar system at a time when the sun is taking on mass and dying. The ship would have left Earth sometime in the 25th century, carrying frozen colonists to a number of different star systems under the guidance of a powerful onboard A.I. system. From a scientific point of view, the story is a bit of a minefield. My biggest concern is that the ship has been travelling for 4 billion years and never finds a planet even remotely habitable. Is that entirely feasible or a bit of a stretch?
why travel in a ship when you can just take a wormhole to a different dimension....
instead of freezing the whole person, all one would need was their "code"
dna?
Their code, uploaded into a program and downloaded at a new destination....
dna?
Their code, uploaded into a program and downloaded at a new destination....
Instead of creating the hull of diamond, I would create it from carbon nanotube material. They are both structured carbon, but nanotube is stronger and would not be as brittle because of the way it forms covalent bonds with its neighboring carbon atoms.
This is how I would do it:
Presuming you have self-replicating nanobots, you can have them constantly produce strands of nanotube, just like little spiders producing strands of silk.
After the strands are produced, they are braided into a rope. That rope is, in turn, braided into a larger rope. Repeat the process until you have a rope that's large enough to see under a microscope, and is very light and strong.
Then you can weave the "rope" into a pattern like threads in a fabric. Wrap your ship's titanium hull in the fabric and you have a very strong armor.
As for parts running out, there will always be friction and heat wear and tear, no matter how perfectly you engineer your parts. You will still need lubricants to be changed periodically on everything that moves/turns. I guess lubricants can be synthesized by nanobots using a chosen petroleum molecule as a template.
All your data wires should be fiber-optic glass/diamond to prevent them from corroding or degrading over time.
All power cables should be high-temperature superconductors to prevent degradation from the thermal properties of electrical resistance (and to make power distribution more efficient). High temperature superconductors, meaning they require no cooling to become superconductive.
As for power generation, a matter/antimatter reactor is theoretically the highest-yield form of energy production following the equation E=MC^2. However, since producing antimatter requires a lot of energy and room these days, a better approach might be fusion reactors. Fusion only requires isotopes of hydrogen, which could be collected from interstellar dust using a technology invented by Dr. Robert Bussard in the 1960s (the Bussard ram-scoop). This would give you and endless supply of hydrogen.
This is how I would do it:
Presuming you have self-replicating nanobots, you can have them constantly produce strands of nanotube, just like little spiders producing strands of silk.
After the strands are produced, they are braided into a rope. That rope is, in turn, braided into a larger rope. Repeat the process until you have a rope that's large enough to see under a microscope, and is very light and strong.
Then you can weave the "rope" into a pattern like threads in a fabric. Wrap your ship's titanium hull in the fabric and you have a very strong armor.
As for parts running out, there will always be friction and heat wear and tear, no matter how perfectly you engineer your parts. You will still need lubricants to be changed periodically on everything that moves/turns. I guess lubricants can be synthesized by nanobots using a chosen petroleum molecule as a template.
All your data wires should be fiber-optic glass/diamond to prevent them from corroding or degrading over time.
All power cables should be high-temperature superconductors to prevent degradation from the thermal properties of electrical resistance (and to make power distribution more efficient). High temperature superconductors, meaning they require no cooling to become superconductive.
As for power generation, a matter/antimatter reactor is theoretically the highest-yield form of energy production following the equation E=MC^2. However, since producing antimatter requires a lot of energy and room these days, a better approach might be fusion reactors. Fusion only requires isotopes of hydrogen, which could be collected from interstellar dust using a technology invented by Dr. Robert Bussard in the 1960s (the Bussard ram-scoop). This would give you and endless supply of hydrogen.
I would not have thought a diamond or anything else could last for billions of years outside a safe pocket deep in the earth.
The trouble with nanotechnology is mistakes will be made, particularly in space where nanobots will be blasted by cosmic rays. Mistakes compound and four billion years later, everything will be goo.
You could have them travelling at almost light speed so a four billion year journey is done in say a thousand years ship time due to time dilation.
Or they could be in a stasis field where the ship and everything in it is frozen in space at an atomic scale with nothing ever changing except a timing mechanism of some kind which shuts off for one day every million years (so 4,000 days).
They could be a colony ship on their way to a nearby solar system on a decades long journey, get stuck in some kind of space warp and reemerge from it decades later their time but four billion years later normal time.
One point. Why would anyone set off on a four billion year journey? There has to be some mechanical malfunction or some accident like a space warp.
The trouble with nanotechnology is mistakes will be made, particularly in space where nanobots will be blasted by cosmic rays. Mistakes compound and four billion years later, everything will be goo.
You could have them travelling at almost light speed so a four billion year journey is done in say a thousand years ship time due to time dilation.
Or they could be in a stasis field where the ship and everything in it is frozen in space at an atomic scale with nothing ever changing except a timing mechanism of some kind which shuts off for one day every million years (so 4,000 days).
They could be a colony ship on their way to a nearby solar system on a decades long journey, get stuck in some kind of space warp and reemerge from it decades later their time but four billion years later normal time.
One point. Why would anyone set off on a four billion year journey? There has to be some mechanical malfunction or some accident like a space warp.
Thanks for all your suggestions, guys.
OK, why would anyone set off on a 4 billion year journey? Well, the journey was never ever meant to last that long. The creators of the project gave the ships' AI computer several priority star system desitinations where they believe habitable planets might exist. If none of these star systems' planets are compatible then the AI is progammed to search out other viable options relative to its position. The the colony ship ends up meandering around the Milky Way searching for habitable planets. After a crisis on the ship, the AI sets a course back to our solar system.
The crisis is that all but two of the 800 hundred frozen colonists have perished. For the moment, the crisis is that the ship is hit by something (again, any suggestions?) and that the freeze pods are damaged. The nanobots not only try to repair the pods, but the humans in them. It doesn't go well and the ship AI ends up venting the ship, leaving just two undamaged pods, and their occupants.
Incidentally, the story doesn't begin until the colony ship re-enters our solar system after the 4 billion year voyage. Feel to poke holes in any of the previous treatment. I'm here to make sure the story is scientifically sound, so your comments are very much appreciated. Regards, Frankie.
OK, why would anyone set off on a 4 billion year journey? Well, the journey was never ever meant to last that long. The creators of the project gave the ships' AI computer several priority star system desitinations where they believe habitable planets might exist. If none of these star systems' planets are compatible then the AI is progammed to search out other viable options relative to its position. The the colony ship ends up meandering around the Milky Way searching for habitable planets. After a crisis on the ship, the AI sets a course back to our solar system.
The crisis is that all but two of the 800 hundred frozen colonists have perished. For the moment, the crisis is that the ship is hit by something (again, any suggestions?) and that the freeze pods are damaged. The nanobots not only try to repair the pods, but the humans in them. It doesn't go well and the ship AI ends up venting the ship, leaving just two undamaged pods, and their occupants.
Incidentally, the story doesn't begin until the colony ship re-enters our solar system after the 4 billion year voyage. Feel to poke holes in any of the previous treatment. I'm here to make sure the story is scientifically sound, so your comments are very much appreciated. Regards, Frankie.
It sounds like an interesting story, but I watch the Sci-Fi channel too sometimes and they often have soooooooo many holes in their plots, but meh... some people like the cheesy-ness.
Anywho, 4 billion years is soooooo long, I don't think any amount of ice would keep a person preserved.
Also, why did it take the computer 4 billion years to make up its mind to return? It seems pretty random. Why didn't it return before?
Has the sun already started it's final sequence stages? If so, why land on earth.
The sun's death will not be as dramatic as a supernova. Even as it expands into a red giant during its final sequence, it's diameter will likely not engulf the Earth. All life will probably be extinguished though as soon as irregularities occur. Such life ending events may be:
- climate changes force another ice age or something,
- atmosphere burning up, or
- orbit changing... earth drifting further away from sun... atmosphere cooling down, freezing everyone.
Also, you would have to explain how two people were saved and the rest of the 800 were not. Were they better shielded than the rest? If so why? Were they more important?
Anywho, 4 billion years is soooooo long, I don't think any amount of ice would keep a person preserved.
Also, why did it take the computer 4 billion years to make up its mind to return? It seems pretty random. Why didn't it return before?
Has the sun already started it's final sequence stages? If so, why land on earth.
The sun's death will not be as dramatic as a supernova. Even as it expands into a red giant during its final sequence, it's diameter will likely not engulf the Earth. All life will probably be extinguished though as soon as irregularities occur. Such life ending events may be:
- climate changes force another ice age or something,
- atmosphere burning up, or
- orbit changing... earth drifting further away from sun... atmosphere cooling down, freezing everyone.
Also, you would have to explain how two people were saved and the rest of the 800 were not. Were they better shielded than the rest? If so why? Were they more important?
Right, so ice won't keep a person preserved that long, then. So any suggestions as to what will?
The AI redirects the ship back to the solar system after the crisis that kills most of the colonists.
As for the ship landing on earth when it returns to the solar system, well, I never said it would. In fact I have no intention of it doing so as the earth is no longer habitable. In fact, there is no life left in the solar system, and the sole players in this story are a 35 year old man, a 9 year old girl and a sentient robot.
As for the luck of two people surviving the crisis...well, I suppose it is just that...luck. It does happen from time to time.
As for holes in plots...well, maybe if I keep you all posted, you can help me plug those holes. I'm not interested in writing a story that doesn't hold up to your scrutiny. I love 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's a lofty goal, but I'm looking to achieve the realism and immersion it created.
The AI redirects the ship back to the solar system after the crisis that kills most of the colonists.
As for the ship landing on earth when it returns to the solar system, well, I never said it would. In fact I have no intention of it doing so as the earth is no longer habitable. In fact, there is no life left in the solar system, and the sole players in this story are a 35 year old man, a 9 year old girl and a sentient robot.
As for the luck of two people surviving the crisis...well, I suppose it is just that...luck. It does happen from time to time.
As for holes in plots...well, maybe if I keep you all posted, you can help me plug those holes. I'm not interested in writing a story that doesn't hold up to your scrutiny. I love 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's a lofty goal, but I'm looking to achieve the realism and immersion it created.
QUOTE (Frankie Fahrenheit+Apr 17 2007, 09:18 PM)
Right, so ice won't keep a person preserved that long, then. So any suggestions as to what will?
Well, if there's absolutely NO contamination of any kind, I guess it might be *plausible* someone could be preserved for that long, but that's a LOOOOOOONG time. But you also have to remember that ice pops people's cell membranes because it freezes the water within each cell.
I'm thinking some other options (just a thought):
1.) you could pull a trick from the Star Trek universe and use the transporter system to keep their patterns in buffer suspension.
Although, in my personal opinion, I doubt teleportation devices like that will ever be plausible in real life
2.) you could do some biological engineering tricks such as
- have their zygote's preserved (the cell that is formed as a result of fertilization. this is the cell that eventually splits and multiplies until you get a fetus and eventually a baby comes out)
- have their DNA stored in memory and the nanobots replicate it and implant it into a host cell for it to develop.
- right before the passengers die, the computer clones them and implants their memories into the new clone (kinda like that arnold schwarzenegger movie). That way, they are preserved in one form or another down the centuries.
3.) you could find some "other" form of stasis, perhaps like the carbonite freezing used on han solo in star wars.
I don't know, it's up to you... I think in general, the audience would likely accept freezing them, so it's probably no big deal.
Well, if there's absolutely NO contamination of any kind, I guess it might be *plausible* someone could be preserved for that long, but that's a LOOOOOOONG time. But you also have to remember that ice pops people's cell membranes because it freezes the water within each cell.
I'm thinking some other options (just a thought):
1.) you could pull a trick from the Star Trek universe and use the transporter system to keep their patterns in buffer suspension.
Although, in my personal opinion, I doubt teleportation devices like that will ever be plausible in real life
2.) you could do some biological engineering tricks such as
- have their zygote's preserved (the cell that is formed as a result of fertilization. this is the cell that eventually splits and multiplies until you get a fetus and eventually a baby comes out)
- have their DNA stored in memory and the nanobots replicate it and implant it into a host cell for it to develop.
- right before the passengers die, the computer clones them and implants their memories into the new clone (kinda like that arnold schwarzenegger movie). That way, they are preserved in one form or another down the centuries.
3.) you could find some "other" form of stasis, perhaps like the carbonite freezing used on han solo in star wars.
I don't know, it's up to you... I think in general, the audience would likely accept freezing them, so it's probably no big deal.
Indeed, your if your ship can move at a fast clip through space, relativity will let it have a longer lifespan with respect to the Sun. Quick, someone do the calculations for, let's say, 20% light speed!!
REgardless, your 4 billion years and artificial life type ship (nanobot ship) may be the reason why the ship is failing AND why you are down to 2 out of hundreds.
Consider this:
The ship and its life support systems were meant for a lifespan of millions, maybe even 100s of millions of years. Perhaps, like the titanic being "unsinkable" it's engineers considered the calculations of >100s of millions of years to be "indefinite." However, the ship keep failing in its mission to find a suitable planet, and now its been flying about space for billions of years.
Ever so slowly the ship, and the frozen humans themselves, are breaking down (and if I were planning such a mission, I would have groups of humans separated as much as possible, so a catastrophic failure for some isn't one for all) and the ships AI has to make some desperate choices, including trying to make it back to Earth, and sacrificing some passengers to support others. Maybe some just had their systems shut down to scavenge for parts, or maybe they were actually used themselves! Slowly, over the millions and billions of years, the are ever fewer humans. Maybe a system failure here takes out a block en masse, maybe the ship has been fixing humans over the years from inevitable radiation exposure, and it starts to fail being able to do that, maybe it must start using some colonists to fix the rest. Maybe the ship is more and more vulnerable to high speed particles and radiation, etc etc.
The ship is dying of old age, and the more it sacrifices to keep some colonists alive, the more danger they are put in.
Hey, having the ship sorta lament, perhaps coming up with a sort of computery, virtual funeral for the deceased, as it makes these decisions would itself be an interesting bit.
So anyhoo, your ship limps into the Solar system, a mere husk of its former self trying to get to Earth the last two survivors before if fails altogether, and maybe it realizes that the Earth is soon to be doomed now, but it has no choice, revives the last two humans and tells them what's what, or maybe some white lies, and the last two humans are all alone on a strange Earth knowing that the Sun could go boom tomorrow, or next year, or 100 years, but ultimately, the Human race has died.
The end. *sniff*
REgardless, your 4 billion years and artificial life type ship (nanobot ship) may be the reason why the ship is failing AND why you are down to 2 out of hundreds.
Consider this:
The ship and its life support systems were meant for a lifespan of millions, maybe even 100s of millions of years. Perhaps, like the titanic being "unsinkable" it's engineers considered the calculations of >100s of millions of years to be "indefinite." However, the ship keep failing in its mission to find a suitable planet, and now its been flying about space for billions of years.
Ever so slowly the ship, and the frozen humans themselves, are breaking down (and if I were planning such a mission, I would have groups of humans separated as much as possible, so a catastrophic failure for some isn't one for all) and the ships AI has to make some desperate choices, including trying to make it back to Earth, and sacrificing some passengers to support others. Maybe some just had their systems shut down to scavenge for parts, or maybe they were actually used themselves! Slowly, over the millions and billions of years, the are ever fewer humans. Maybe a system failure here takes out a block en masse, maybe the ship has been fixing humans over the years from inevitable radiation exposure, and it starts to fail being able to do that, maybe it must start using some colonists to fix the rest. Maybe the ship is more and more vulnerable to high speed particles and radiation, etc etc.
The ship is dying of old age, and the more it sacrifices to keep some colonists alive, the more danger they are put in.
Hey, having the ship sorta lament, perhaps coming up with a sort of computery, virtual funeral for the deceased, as it makes these decisions would itself be an interesting bit.
So anyhoo, your ship limps into the Solar system, a mere husk of its former self trying to get to Earth the last two survivors before if fails altogether, and maybe it realizes that the Earth is soon to be doomed now, but it has no choice, revives the last two humans and tells them what's what, or maybe some white lies, and the last two humans are all alone on a strange Earth knowing that the Sun could go boom tomorrow, or next year, or 100 years, but ultimately, the Human race has died.
The end. *sniff*
That's a beautiful story, Pan. Now can you write it for me please? Seriously, though, you have some very sound suggestions there. I always envisioned trying to make sure the ship was practically immortal. But maybe you're right. Nothing lasts forever, and we certainly won't have perfected our technology by the 25th century.
So here's the next stage, then. When my colony ship finally makes it back to our dying solar system it makes contact with a 38th century spaceship created by a more advanced human race. It is populated by just one sentient robot. So what on earth is a38th century spaceship going to be like. Can we even imagine the type of technology that might be used that far ahead into the future?
So here's the next stage, then. When my colony ship finally makes it back to our dying solar system it makes contact with a 38th century spaceship created by a more advanced human race. It is populated by just one sentient robot. So what on earth is a38th century spaceship going to be like. Can we even imagine the type of technology that might be used that far ahead into the future?
QUOTE (Frankie Fahrenheit+Apr 17 2007, 10:26 PM)
Can we even imagine the type of technology that might be used that far ahead into the future?
I believe there will be flying cars and tube transportation by then
But seriously seriously...
We can't really know for sure because so much of the inventions that have yet to be made are not just improvements of current technology, but will likely be based on things we haven't even observed or discovered yet.
For instance, Faster Than Light travel within Special Relativity (like warp drive or whatever).
But there are some things that we could probably assume:
- they would have a good-enough handle on enough technologies so that they could perhaps build extremely large ships. This 38th century ship could be hundreds of miles long and capable of transporting millions of people... perhaps they all died due to a virus?
- their computers would likely be quantum based and would be able to calculate almost anything instantaneously.
- they may have solved the particle entanglement phenomena making instant communication possible anywhere in the universe.
- they could possibly have learned to control gravity, so they are able to have artificial gravity on their starships, and use gravity/antigravity as forms of propulsion, replacing thrusters and ion drives.
- they may have found a way to produce antiprotons efficiently and therefore can utilize power generation techniques far more effective than fusion.
- if there are such things as aliens in this story, I bet the 38th century ship has some pretty advanced weapons and/or stealth cloaking technology.
All sci-fi movies require a leap of faith to enjoy them. You could pretty much pull off anything imaginable as long as you explain it with techno-babel.
I believe there will be flying cars and tube transportation by then
But seriously seriously...
We can't really know for sure because so much of the inventions that have yet to be made are not just improvements of current technology, but will likely be based on things we haven't even observed or discovered yet.
For instance, Faster Than Light travel within Special Relativity (like warp drive or whatever).
But there are some things that we could probably assume:
- they would have a good-enough handle on enough technologies so that they could perhaps build extremely large ships. This 38th century ship could be hundreds of miles long and capable of transporting millions of people... perhaps they all died due to a virus?
- their computers would likely be quantum based and would be able to calculate almost anything instantaneously.
- they may have solved the particle entanglement phenomena making instant communication possible anywhere in the universe.
- they could possibly have learned to control gravity, so they are able to have artificial gravity on their starships, and use gravity/antigravity as forms of propulsion, replacing thrusters and ion drives.
- they may have found a way to produce antiprotons efficiently and therefore can utilize power generation techniques far more effective than fusion.
- if there are such things as aliens in this story, I bet the 38th century ship has some pretty advanced weapons and/or stealth cloaking technology.
All sci-fi movies require a leap of faith to enjoy them. You could pretty much pull off anything imaginable as long as you explain it with techno-babel.
If this is for a movie, then all the really technical details are not going to be important anyway. You simply don't have enough time in even a very long movie to go into all the details. Rather than getting into all the minutia of how a ship would travel for 4 billions years, you are just going to have to choose a story and go with it. No sci-fi movie or novel is going to be without holes nor is it going to be bulletproof. Even with my limited knowledge of physics, I can pick apart every idea put forth so far, if I wanted to just point out problems. For example, How would you travel for any real length of time at light speed or near light-speed? How would you plot a course for a massive object moving at speed that wouldn't collide with some other matter and cause catastrophic damage to the ship? My point being, there are millions of theoretical ways this scenario could be enacted. All of these will have it's potential complications and problems. You will just have to go with what you like, don't worry about the plot holes so much. As I said before, you will not be able to get into all these details with a movie anyway.
This brings me to my next point. Yes, we can imagine future technologies. That is what good sci-fi is all about. This doesn't mean that we can accurately predict just what those future technologies will be, but we can imagine what they might be. This is where good sci-fi writing comes into play. If you want to make some really good and scientifically accurate sci-fi, then forget screenplays. Books are where it is at. Just look at the influence some of the great sci-fi writers have had on modern science. If you make some really good books, then someone will eventually bastardize it and make a crappy movie that lacks all the detail you so lovingly put into your books. To make some really good science based (as opposed to narrative driven) writing, you will have to be innovative. All the really great sci-fi writers took the limits of current technology to the edge of human understanding and then went beyond that.
QUOTE
Can we even imagine the type of technology that might be used that far ahead into the future?
This brings me to my next point. Yes, we can imagine future technologies. That is what good sci-fi is all about. This doesn't mean that we can accurately predict just what those future technologies will be, but we can imagine what they might be. This is where good sci-fi writing comes into play. If you want to make some really good and scientifically accurate sci-fi, then forget screenplays. Books are where it is at. Just look at the influence some of the great sci-fi writers have had on modern science. If you make some really good books, then someone will eventually bastardize it and make a crappy movie that lacks all the detail you so lovingly put into your books. To make some really good science based (as opposed to narrative driven) writing, you will have to be innovative. All the really great sci-fi writers took the limits of current technology to the edge of human understanding and then went beyond that.
Oh, and outa all the technologies we're fantasizing about, suspended animation by freezing someone is probably the closest to realization.
The only way the ship would find a habitable planet, would be if life was already present.
A ship that had been travelling, say at 10%C would have visited thousands of systems in 4 billion years. The chances of finding a planet suitable for terraforming in this time are very high. Terraforming a planet would probably take several centuries, but for a ship designed to last millenia that is no problem.
Returning to a dying sun would seem a liitle pointless though. The AI should know that the sun was dying and that Earth would be significantly different on arrival.
A scenario similar to Red Dwarf is more likely. An accident occurs early in the ship's life. Its engines and most power/fuel are destroyed, so it can only move at a tiny fraction of light speed. It manages to orbit around a nearby star and redirect itself back towards home, taking 4 billion years on the round trip.
Nanotech should give some pretty impressive manufacturing capabilities, so this scenario may not be too likely since the ship could probably repair itself easily. And just the interstellar dust it could attract in 4 billion years could build several ships.
A ship that had been travelling, say at 10%C would have visited thousands of systems in 4 billion years. The chances of finding a planet suitable for terraforming in this time are very high. Terraforming a planet would probably take several centuries, but for a ship designed to last millenia that is no problem.
Returning to a dying sun would seem a liitle pointless though. The AI should know that the sun was dying and that Earth would be significantly different on arrival.
A scenario similar to Red Dwarf is more likely. An accident occurs early in the ship's life. Its engines and most power/fuel are destroyed, so it can only move at a tiny fraction of light speed. It manages to orbit around a nearby star and redirect itself back towards home, taking 4 billion years on the round trip.
Nanotech should give some pretty impressive manufacturing capabilities, so this scenario may not be too likely since the ship could probably repair itself easily. And just the interstellar dust it could attract in 4 billion years could build several ships.
QUOTE (N O M+Apr 18 2007, 02:17 AM)
Returning to a dying sun would seem a liitle pointless though. The AI should know that the sun was dying and that Earth would be significantly different on arrival.
Exactly. Unless, of course you have a really interesting story plot that forces you to come back... like perhaps a hidden artifact that the AI thinks it can use for last resort effort to save its passengers.
Exactly. Unless, of course you have a really interesting story plot that forces you to come back... like perhaps a hidden artifact that the AI thinks it can use for last resort effort to save its passengers.
QUOTE (Latrosicarius+Apr 18 2007, 03:08 AM)
Exactly. Unless, of course you have a really interesting story plot that forces you to come back... like perhaps a hidden artifact that the AI thinks it can use for last resort effort to save its passengers.
It is imperative to the story that the colony ship re-enters the solar system at a point when the sun is dying. The AI has no intention of returning to Earth, but it assumes that mankind has continued to proliferate throughout the solar system during the ships absence. In fact, when the colony ship first left the solar system there would already have been space stations and colonies as far out as Neptune and Pluto. The primary goal of the AI is to safely return the two remaining colonists to their own people. As I have said before, the solar system is actually devoid of all human life, and as the colony ship approaches, it would no doubt detect that. It does, however, detect a signal coming from a ship orbiting Jupiter. That's how I get the ship back into the solar system.
It is imperative to the story that the colony ship re-enters the solar system at a point when the sun is dying. The AI has no intention of returning to Earth, but it assumes that mankind has continued to proliferate throughout the solar system during the ships absence. In fact, when the colony ship first left the solar system there would already have been space stations and colonies as far out as Neptune and Pluto. The primary goal of the AI is to safely return the two remaining colonists to their own people. As I have said before, the solar system is actually devoid of all human life, and as the colony ship approaches, it would no doubt detect that. It does, however, detect a signal coming from a ship orbiting Jupiter. That's how I get the ship back into the solar system.
I think that's a really interesting turn of events. And it sounds plausible too.
This is just me, but I would have the ship's AI be cold, analytical, with no personality or emotions...
But the 38th century ship's AI is so advanced that it is like a real person.
Perhaps one sub-plot is that the older AI is confused and thinks its talking to a real person.
Or maybe instead of the 38th century ship having 1 AI, it might have a small council of AIs, each with a different personality who work together to make all the decisions instead of a single AI.... then you can have an interesting sub-plot about their arguments and differences. Maybe one is more caring towards the 2 human passengers than the others, for example.
--
Since the solar system is now devoid of life, they obviously wouldn't stay, but they would have to find another place to live.
I don't know your ideas for the plot, but what if the human race did migrate to a different solar system already. They figured that all the ships that were sent out before failed in their mission, but may still be alive, so they left the 38th century ship behind to guide the way for all the lost ships that happened to return.
But they've been there for waaaay too long and there's disagreement between the AI council as to stay or go find the rest of the humans in their new solar system. Now that they have picked up 2 people, they decide to start a voyage to their new home, following markers and maps that were left behind. They don't know if any humans still exist anymore since it's been a few billion years too long.
This is just me, but I would have the ship's AI be cold, analytical, with no personality or emotions...
But the 38th century ship's AI is so advanced that it is like a real person.
Perhaps one sub-plot is that the older AI is confused and thinks its talking to a real person.
Or maybe instead of the 38th century ship having 1 AI, it might have a small council of AIs, each with a different personality who work together to make all the decisions instead of a single AI.... then you can have an interesting sub-plot about their arguments and differences. Maybe one is more caring towards the 2 human passengers than the others, for example.
--
Since the solar system is now devoid of life, they obviously wouldn't stay, but they would have to find another place to live.
I don't know your ideas for the plot, but what if the human race did migrate to a different solar system already. They figured that all the ships that were sent out before failed in their mission, but may still be alive, so they left the 38th century ship behind to guide the way for all the lost ships that happened to return.
But they've been there for waaaay too long and there's disagreement between the AI council as to stay or go find the rest of the humans in their new solar system. Now that they have picked up 2 people, they decide to start a voyage to their new home, following markers and maps that were left behind. They don't know if any humans still exist anymore since it's been a few billion years too long.
Hi....
You are already travelling on such a ship... minus the suspended, non animated, non evolving, life forms.
One thing that never comes up in SF space travel is dust, micrometeors, meteors, etc. As NOM said, a tenth of light speed is a good speed but even assuming a fist sized lump of rock was stationary in space and your ship hit it, it would be like being hit by a missile travelling at a tenth light speed. It would go through diamond like nothing. Even if you could be prepared, you see a possible hazard and you will be there in ten seconds with no chance to avoid it.
You could come up with some kind of probability drive where a mechanism would know in advance the best chance of avoiding such incidents and take action long beforehand with tiny deviations. Or some kind of time field in front of the craft which would slow down anything entering it to a safe speed.
I remember years ago reading a story of a small crew travelling around trying to find their way back to Earth. They find another dead world and leave and the captain doesn't mention that he found evidence there to show that was Earth.
Check with Futuretalk. He probably knows of an FTL drive that is due to be invented next Friday or earlier.
You could come up with some kind of probability drive where a mechanism would know in advance the best chance of avoiding such incidents and take action long beforehand with tiny deviations. Or some kind of time field in front of the craft which would slow down anything entering it to a safe speed.
I remember years ago reading a story of a small crew travelling around trying to find their way back to Earth. They find another dead world and leave and the captain doesn't mention that he found evidence there to show that was Earth.
Check with Futuretalk. He probably knows of an FTL drive that is due to be invented next Friday or earlier.
like i said, why take our body? makes no sense whatsoever...
all you need is the code man!
all you need is the code man!
To avoid collisions with dust, you could use something like an inverted Bussard Ramscoop collector, which normally collects any ionized particles with a magnetic field. You could possibly reverse the polarity of the field to repel those particles out of the way.
But in terms of deflecting large debris, you're kinda screwed. In the Star Trek universe, for example, their ships use what they call the "navigational deflector" or "main deflector" to get all particles out of the way of the ship.
I don't know if anything like that could work unless it relied on anti-gravity, because much of the debris you will run into would not be magnetic or ionic, and could not be controlled with a Bussard collector.
Most other Sci-Fi shows just ignore the issue and don't talk about it at all.
But in terms of deflecting large debris, you're kinda screwed. In the Star Trek universe, for example, their ships use what they call the "navigational deflector" or "main deflector" to get all particles out of the way of the ship.
I don't know if anything like that could work unless it relied on anti-gravity, because much of the debris you will run into would not be magnetic or ionic, and could not be controlled with a Bussard collector.
Most other Sci-Fi shows just ignore the issue and don't talk about it at all.
no need for the goshdarn body.......
everybody log on, and upload into the system, the web.
Then transport the web to the desired point and set up camp
everybody log on, and upload into the system, the web.
Then transport the web to the desired point and set up camp
QUOTE (OldWoman1904+Apr 18 2007, 05:17 PM)
no need for the goshdarn body.......
everybody log on, and upload into the system, the web.
Then transport the web to the desired point and set up camp
Have you been reading Ray Kurzweil again?
everybody log on, and upload into the system, the web.
Then transport the web to the desired point and set up camp
Have you been reading Ray Kurzweil again?
QUOTE (Latrosicarius+Apr 18 2007, 05:28 PM)
Have you been reading Ray Kurzweil again?
Who is Ray Kurzweil?
Is that an insult....I'm gonna google it....
ok, i googled it.......
So it's not an insult........
thanks
Guess we'll find out in about 20 years.
Who is Ray Kurzweil?
Is that an insult....I'm gonna google it....
ok, i googled it.......
So it's not an insult........
thanks
Guess we'll find out in about 20 years.
Nah, it's not an insult, just a joke. He says the same kind of stuff in his book(s). I only read one of them.
Main Points: GRB- death of humanity and end of terraforming mission
Computer cannabilizes the crew's life support systems
Computer requires humans (two I suppose)
Ship is nearly out of power (necessary for point 2 and causes the humans to investigate the other ship)
Perhaps the colony ship was beginning to terraform a planet when a GRB's blast wave hits the planet (if it were ever to become a movie this would be a great place for some spectacular special effects) disabling many key subsystems and rendering the planet (and any others for thousands of light-years) unsuitable for terraforming (radiation in the crust or destabilizing the magnetic field or something else s long as the planet is useless). The spaceship happened to be behind the planet during the duration of the burst. The EMP caused by the ionization of the planet's atmosphere accompanied by the increase in cosmic rays (due to the GRB itself) scrambles most of the computer's memory. The nanobots that were programmed to repair to systems were either incapacitated by the EMP or were not able to retrieve the necessary information from the ship's memory to fix most of the problems. The ship's captain is awakened centuries later (when the planet should have been terraformed). The captain wakes the ship's engineers (or whoever is sufficiently qualified) and they attempt to fix the ship. In the end they are able to have the ship come to rest on the planet and program the remaining nanobots to gather the resources necessary to fix the ship. Everyone goes into stasis for a few decades as the ship is repaired. Waking, the captain and engineers attempt to determine the best course of action, they decide that that, since the navigational systems are not salvageable and they do not have the coordinates of earth or their current position, it would be best to have the computer search the nearby stars until it finds earth (in the hope that a signal would be received or a surviving colony located). Everyone goes back into stasis and the ship begins its search. Searching in a spherical pattern around the star system it journeys for millions of years, each time it arrives at a star system the commanding officer (or a small number or people) is/are awakened, notified of the situation (through programs written by the successive officers and the limited sensor data that has been taken) and must decide to what to do. This continues for millions of years until the ship has been programmed well enough to respond on its own to most situations. The ship searches for hundreds of millions of years, eventually its power supply begins to run out (its supply of hydrogen is not unlimited and there are no more engineers of sufficient knowledge to repair the collection systems). The computer begins to conserve power by cannibalizing the stasis pods (since they have local power supplies and additional nanobots that have been used to maintain the bodies). After several million years further, the computer reaches the solar system and awakens the two remaining humans (because it required human intervention by two as a safeguard, therefore it kept the minimum possible number alive to remain functioning). As the ship reaches the inner Kuiper Belt it detects a faint signal near the third planet in the system (as Mercury and Venus have been dragged into the Sun by loss of angular momentum in its atmosphere). The ship uses almost all of its remaining power putting itself into orbit near the other ship.
Computer cannabilizes the crew's life support systems
Computer requires humans (two I suppose)
Ship is nearly out of power (necessary for point 2 and causes the humans to investigate the other ship)
Perhaps the colony ship was beginning to terraform a planet when a GRB's blast wave hits the planet (if it were ever to become a movie this would be a great place for some spectacular special effects) disabling many key subsystems and rendering the planet (and any others for thousands of light-years) unsuitable for terraforming (radiation in the crust or destabilizing the magnetic field or something else s long as the planet is useless). The spaceship happened to be behind the planet during the duration of the burst. The EMP caused by the ionization of the planet's atmosphere accompanied by the increase in cosmic rays (due to the GRB itself) scrambles most of the computer's memory. The nanobots that were programmed to repair to systems were either incapacitated by the EMP or were not able to retrieve the necessary information from the ship's memory to fix most of the problems. The ship's captain is awakened centuries later (when the planet should have been terraformed). The captain wakes the ship's engineers (or whoever is sufficiently qualified) and they attempt to fix the ship. In the end they are able to have the ship come to rest on the planet and program the remaining nanobots to gather the resources necessary to fix the ship. Everyone goes into stasis for a few decades as the ship is repaired. Waking, the captain and engineers attempt to determine the best course of action, they decide that that, since the navigational systems are not salvageable and they do not have the coordinates of earth or their current position, it would be best to have the computer search the nearby stars until it finds earth (in the hope that a signal would be received or a surviving colony located). Everyone goes back into stasis and the ship begins its search. Searching in a spherical pattern around the star system it journeys for millions of years, each time it arrives at a star system the commanding officer (or a small number or people) is/are awakened, notified of the situation (through programs written by the successive officers and the limited sensor data that has been taken) and must decide to what to do. This continues for millions of years until the ship has been programmed well enough to respond on its own to most situations. The ship searches for hundreds of millions of years, eventually its power supply begins to run out (its supply of hydrogen is not unlimited and there are no more engineers of sufficient knowledge to repair the collection systems). The computer begins to conserve power by cannibalizing the stasis pods (since they have local power supplies and additional nanobots that have been used to maintain the bodies). After several million years further, the computer reaches the solar system and awakens the two remaining humans (because it required human intervention by two as a safeguard, therefore it kept the minimum possible number alive to remain functioning). As the ship reaches the inner Kuiper Belt it detects a faint signal near the third planet in the system (as Mercury and Venus have been dragged into the Sun by loss of angular momentum in its atmosphere). The ship uses almost all of its remaining power putting itself into orbit near the other ship.
About Ray Kurzweil---maybe I spoke to soon.....maybe he is some weirdo...I say this because he drinks a fafillion cups of green tea a day....that's weird...and he proposes nanobots could maintain our bodies, not crazy but ......
don't nanobots already maintain our bodies? Organic, but nano and bots.....
Some of his theories are strange....does he claim that humankind will reproduce the natural world? That makes sense I guess, different materials...
Now, I'm no green liberal or anything but I can't help but notice that Ray doesn't seem to mention animals in this future world..We are part of a system...are we just gonna leave all the cute koala bears and little mice here alone...
Actually, the animals could rejoice if humans left...some....except for cats and dogs, which we created anyway....
But yes, I do think that eventually people will upload into the "internet" and live in a virtual world.....
in fact, sometimes I think that's how we got here....
someone tell me how life is not like a video game....tell me that.....
don't nanobots already maintain our bodies? Organic, but nano and bots.....
Some of his theories are strange....does he claim that humankind will reproduce the natural world? That makes sense I guess, different materials...
Now, I'm no green liberal or anything but I can't help but notice that Ray doesn't seem to mention animals in this future world..We are part of a system...are we just gonna leave all the cute koala bears and little mice here alone...
Actually, the animals could rejoice if humans left...some....except for cats and dogs, which we created anyway....But yes, I do think that eventually people will upload into the "internet" and live in a virtual world.....
in fact, sometimes I think that's how we got here....
someone tell me how life is not like a video game....tell me that.....
guys guys guys, how are we going to do all these things and we have jockular Seriour lack o gggggggirl input to our thinking. as pulp fiction quotes gos lets not start sucking our ****'* pre maturaly.
im addressing the start of the tread! 38th century what(we must be morons) 38 is the caliber of most girly nipples we'll suck on is the onlyly exception to mentionintg 38!
someone mentioned nitrogen frezzing? what? Even a a amature scientist i DOUBT your frozen brain i could resusitate!!! however from a telemarketing point of view as a sevices consumerism hired gun hand I'm more than happy to dip your nobby head in liquid nitrogen and make you pay through the nose! [L] afer all u have something to contribute that we cant manage without you cunning that being spilling our wisdom wallets into you itchE little hand!
woooh I've done a slab: 24hevey cans of beer! Peace be with you chow!
still coherent but!!!
The guys in the posts above were discusing colonising other planets and talking about lost in space suff(suspended animation - lol - could you pls try to keep your minds ceal and unsjeword , rem dat *** verbal or what has dimentional vectors that affect images, figures of speach, thought patters in your distant futur! set fire to the pile of bird dropings youoof digested and come up with your own tall strong handsom inteligencia of what we should make the future to be!
I addressed the feasability of resussatating you -273c degree brains earlir pesimistiacly - because of ice crystals forming and unsovably damaging the soul of your brain, i said ice h2o crystals fools not cokacola crystals ice is ice reson why a high enegy not shold be applied to attention deficit sydrom reader in the form of a high calibre!!!
The other thing from memory you guy were talking about is robots! how big? how smart? too big i wouldnt trust them whilst to small - a kiddy robot sargent slaughtr - well my tomcat would be begging me for a cross bandaid on his but and an insuransce policie on his *** lol
Robots should in their chip space soul world be given a form of synthetic uphoria they can live and enjoy in the cyberspace of their cyberspaced minds, work should be done painlessly and auto autonimously to their contiousness likewise their contiousness of timee - we dont want a bored fed up robot wanting a teabreak spitting the dumby being the supervisor and kicking him between the knees to have his robotic way.
Robotic artificial inteligence is something a field i would have have realy goten into 28 years ago as an adult science major student, but that was immpossibil in aust, we didnt have jobs like that and we had to put up with snickering giggly fool idiot in the shops that could stroke the price of an item you were buying because you wernt an anglo and rob you by hundreds of dollars compared to the dad of their mates they sold to at a below cost price discount, To this day i still remember these snickering callous imbesiles in mid teens giggling at the legal theivery they were doing in their 15-24 age group like wise remembering their intelect was without science just canned bullshit rhyming nonsence of a crock pot crap that would render their perceptual comprehention of reality(signs)(science) below the caliber that could be tolerated in the 11th grade!
They were snickering 15's giggling robbing bygon time of unsuspecting individuals, things are differant here now
Yes robotics, AI are sume of the thing i immagined as a child i would have like to have been doin however the oportunity never eventuated and thats the fault of the government i looked upto as being all wise just fair decent all powerfull in my child mind wisdom of soloman wise that would ensure every just person got the just mesure from life as a gift in return to loyalty and sanity to aurthority and ind con their loyal contemt of hooligans who-disrupt the utopian ideals of life every good child begins to evolve.
Then as get older realise the elders are not as almighty smart as utopian child perceptions would have liked to have been, gov heads publicaly in parlement getting into humeour COCK FIGHTS (because know and no rhyme in their mentalities) lol am i much smarter than the govs around the world? No, and i'll scratch the top of my head sugesting your a deaked if your childish self keeps insisting on calling me sir! not that im stupid but that habit of looking upto everyone can lead you a stray and set you up for a mega disapointmet when you realise the legal chaos thats prevalent/rife around the wourld when your that worldly to understand. Look ive had a slab of beer and too sleepy to type further in a trance, im going to bed, good night.
im addressing the start of the tread! 38th century what(we must be morons) 38 is the caliber of most girly nipples we'll suck on is the onlyly exception to mentionintg 38!
someone mentioned nitrogen frezzing? what? Even a a amature scientist i DOUBT your frozen brain i could resusitate!!! however from a telemarketing point of view as a sevices consumerism hired gun hand I'm more than happy to dip your nobby head in liquid nitrogen and make you pay through the nose! [L] afer all u have something to contribute that we cant manage without you cunning that being spilling our wisdom wallets into you itchE little hand!
woooh I've done a slab: 24hevey cans of beer! Peace be with you chow!
still coherent but!!!
The guys in the posts above were discusing colonising other planets and talking about lost in space suff(suspended animation - lol - could you pls try to keep your minds ceal and unsjeword , rem dat *** verbal or what has dimentional vectors that affect images, figures of speach, thought patters in your distant futur! set fire to the pile of bird dropings youoof digested and come up with your own tall strong handsom inteligencia of what we should make the future to be!
I addressed the feasability of resussatating you -273c degree brains earlir pesimistiacly - because of ice crystals forming and unsovably damaging the soul of your brain, i said ice h2o crystals fools not cokacola crystals ice is ice reson why a high enegy not shold be applied to attention deficit sydrom reader in the form of a high calibre!!!
The other thing from memory you guy were talking about is robots! how big? how smart? too big i wouldnt trust them whilst to small - a kiddy robot sargent slaughtr - well my tomcat would be begging me for a cross bandaid on his but and an insuransce policie on his *** lol
Robots should in their chip space soul world be given a form of synthetic uphoria they can live and enjoy in the cyberspace of their cyberspaced minds, work should be done painlessly and auto autonimously to their contiousness likewise their contiousness of timee - we dont want a bored fed up robot wanting a teabreak spitting the dumby being the supervisor and kicking him between the knees to have his robotic way.
Robotic artificial inteligence is something a field i would have have realy goten into 28 years ago as an adult science major student, but that was immpossibil in aust, we didnt have jobs like that and we had to put up with snickering giggly fool idiot in the shops that could stroke the price of an item you were buying because you wernt an anglo and rob you by hundreds of dollars compared to the dad of their mates they sold to at a below cost price discount, To this day i still remember these snickering callous imbesiles in mid teens giggling at the legal theivery they were doing in their 15-24 age group like wise remembering their intelect was without science just canned bullshit rhyming nonsence of a crock pot crap that would render their perceptual comprehention of reality(signs)(science) below the caliber that could be tolerated in the 11th grade!
They were snickering 15's giggling robbing bygon time of unsuspecting individuals, things are differant here now
Yes robotics, AI are sume of the thing i immagined as a child i would have like to have been doin however the oportunity never eventuated and thats the fault of the government i looked upto as being all wise just fair decent all powerfull in my child mind wisdom of soloman wise that would ensure every just person got the just mesure from life as a gift in return to loyalty and sanity to aurthority and ind con their loyal contemt of hooligans who-disrupt the utopian ideals of life every good child begins to evolve.
Then as get older realise the elders are not as almighty smart as utopian child perceptions would have liked to have been, gov heads publicaly in parlement getting into humeour COCK FIGHTS (because know and no rhyme in their mentalities) lol am i much smarter than the govs around the world? No, and i'll scratch the top of my head sugesting your a deaked if your childish self keeps insisting on calling me sir! not that im stupid but that habit of looking upto everyone can lead you a stray and set you up for a mega disapointmet when you realise the legal chaos thats prevalent/rife around the wourld when your that worldly to understand. Look ive had a slab of beer and too sleepy to type further in a trance, im going to bed, good night.
Guest Soultech. Watch out! The guys with the big butterfly nets are coming for you to take you back to your comfortable padded cell. Pity you ain't had no sex for so long you feel such a need to talk about it. Bye!
It is probable that most animal species will be extinct by the year 2100 as populations spread so we will be left with only pets, food animals and animals which scavenge in cities (various birds, foxes, etc).
There has been success with suspended animation recently:
Doctors claim suspended animation success
Mice put in 'suspended animation'
It may not be out of this world.
Also, I believe saturating a person's cells with saline can help them avoid popping if a "freezing" technique of suspended animation is used. But as the above links show, freezing isn't the only method.
Doctors claim suspended animation success
Mice put in 'suspended animation'
It may not be out of this world.
Also, I believe saturating a person's cells with saline can help them avoid popping if a "freezing" technique of suspended animation is used. But as the above links show, freezing isn't the only method.
I'm a little dizzy after reading Guest_soultech's post. It's like a bad trip in written form.
Thanks for all your posts so far. There's some interesting things in there. Some daunting stuff too.
Latrosicarius, thanks for your suggestions. Firstly, you were spot on that the 38th century ship has been left behind as a guide, just not as you suggest. However, the AI on both the 25th and 38th century ships will feature very little within the actual story. But the robot on board the Singularity (the 38th century ship) has a major part to play in the story. I'm tempted to give this robot emotions, but I'm not really sure how to play this. The robot has been drifting through the solar system on the Singularity for just shy of 4 billion years. Has it evolved and developed emotions within that time or was it created with them? Are there small elements of its construction that are organic? I have no idea just yet. I certainly don't wan't it to look and act like a human. As for leaving the solar system within the story, that's not going to happen. The entire story takes place within the solar system. I plan to have the story end in orbit around Mars. I do wonder how large the Sun is likely to become in the final stages of its' lifecycle and what effect that might have on Mars. Any ideas?
kaneda, as far dodging space debris whilst travelling at one tenth of light speed (that's a good speed, so I'll stick with that), I'm going to have to ignore that little problem and assume mankind has sussed that out in the 25th century as it has no bearing on the plot. Although I have to say I liked your time field idea!
Shemi, some interesting ideas there. One question though, and you'll have to forgive my ignorance here, but what is a GRB blast wave?
N O M, this problem of travelling for 4 billion years and not finding a planet capable of supporting life is a bit of a problem. I agree with you that the chances are very high of finding many planets conducive to life in the 4 billion year timeframe. What I need are reasons why the Fortunate 1 (the 25th century ship) doesn't find any. Could it be a collection on reasons? Too much radiation in one system, too hot in another. This is something I really need help with as it will come up in the plot.
Thanks again. Frankie.
Thanks for all your posts so far. There's some interesting things in there. Some daunting stuff too.
Latrosicarius, thanks for your suggestions. Firstly, you were spot on that the 38th century ship has been left behind as a guide, just not as you suggest. However, the AI on both the 25th and 38th century ships will feature very little within the actual story. But the robot on board the Singularity (the 38th century ship) has a major part to play in the story. I'm tempted to give this robot emotions, but I'm not really sure how to play this. The robot has been drifting through the solar system on the Singularity for just shy of 4 billion years. Has it evolved and developed emotions within that time or was it created with them? Are there small elements of its construction that are organic? I have no idea just yet. I certainly don't wan't it to look and act like a human. As for leaving the solar system within the story, that's not going to happen. The entire story takes place within the solar system. I plan to have the story end in orbit around Mars. I do wonder how large the Sun is likely to become in the final stages of its' lifecycle and what effect that might have on Mars. Any ideas?
kaneda, as far dodging space debris whilst travelling at one tenth of light speed (that's a good speed, so I'll stick with that), I'm going to have to ignore that little problem and assume mankind has sussed that out in the 25th century as it has no bearing on the plot. Although I have to say I liked your time field idea!
Shemi, some interesting ideas there. One question though, and you'll have to forgive my ignorance here, but what is a GRB blast wave?
N O M, this problem of travelling for 4 billion years and not finding a planet capable of supporting life is a bit of a problem. I agree with you that the chances are very high of finding many planets conducive to life in the 4 billion year timeframe. What I need are reasons why the Fortunate 1 (the 25th century ship) doesn't find any. Could it be a collection on reasons? Too much radiation in one system, too hot in another. This is something I really need help with as it will come up in the plot.
Thanks again. Frankie.
[QUOTE]what is a GRB blast wave?[QUOTE]
I would assume the intitial significant (neglecting neutrinos that don't matter very much as far as interactions with matter) emission from a gamma-ray burst would be in the form of gamma-rays. Secondarily, a large number of charged particles and syncotron radiation would arrive. (the duration and amount of time between the first (gamma) and second (ion) waves would vary according to the blast's strength and distance)
The one I was referring to at the beginning of my post was the first (gamma-ray), though I guess its not what one would normally call a "blast" wave.
By the way, I was talking about one of these within probably several hundred light-years of earth. (depending on which way any jets might be pointing)
I would think such a burst would render uninhabitable any planet for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of light-years.
I would assume the intitial significant (neglecting neutrinos that don't matter very much as far as interactions with matter) emission from a gamma-ray burst would be in the form of gamma-rays. Secondarily, a large number of charged particles and syncotron radiation would arrive. (the duration and amount of time between the first (gamma) and second (ion) waves would vary according to the blast's strength and distance)
The one I was referring to at the beginning of my post was the first (gamma-ray), though I guess its not what one would normally call a "blast" wave.
By the way, I was talking about one of these within probably several hundred light-years of earth. (depending on which way any jets might be pointing)
I would think such a burst would render uninhabitable any planet for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of light-years.
QUOTE (Frankie Fahrenheit+Apr 20 2007, 06:28 AM)
N O M, this problem of travelling for 4 billion years and not finding a planet capable of supporting life is a bit of a problem. I agree with you that the chances are very high of finding many planets conducive to life in the 4 billion year timeframe. What I need are reasons why the Fortunate 1 (the 25th century ship) doesn't find any. Could it be a collection on reasons? Too much radiation in one system, too hot in another. This is something I really need help with as it will come up in the plot.
How about the specifications given to the AI are too tight or even impossible to meet.
The pathetic ramblings of soultech (aka Chris Rivos) above give a sad clue of what can happen with a glitch in the programming. Maybe the AI is not completely sane.
How about the specifications given to the AI are too tight or even impossible to meet.
The pathetic ramblings of soultech (aka Chris Rivos) above give a sad clue of what can happen with a glitch in the programming. Maybe the AI is not completely sane.
Latrosicarius. There is another way of inducing suspended animation. Ten houirs straight of cricket and brain activity almost stops. The occasional infusion of lager nourishes the body while in this state.
QUOTE (Shemi+Apr 21 2007, 02:03 AM)
[QUOTE]what is a GRB blast wave?[QUOTE]
I would assume the intitial significant (neglecting neutrinos that don't matter very much as far as interactions with matter) emission from a gamma-ray burst would be in the form of gamma-rays. Secondarily, a large number of charged particles and syncotron radiation would arrive. (the duration and amount of time between the first (gamma) and second (ion) waves would vary according to the blast's strength and distance)
The one I was referring to at the beginning of my post was the first (gamma-ray), though I guess its not what one would normally call a "blast" wave.
By the way, I was talking about one of these within probably several hundred light-years of earth. (depending on which way any jets might be pointing)
I would think such a burst would render uninhabitable any planet for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of light-years.
That's very interesting and may end up being very usefull to the story. Again, you will have to forgive my ignorance, but I assume the gamma rays come from a star star. Is that so? Sorry, but I'm not too clued up on this sort of thing. Can anyone explain in greater detail?
I would assume the intitial significant (neglecting neutrinos that don't matter very much as far as interactions with matter) emission from a gamma-ray burst would be in the form of gamma-rays. Secondarily, a large number of charged particles and syncotron radiation would arrive. (the duration and amount of time between the first (gamma) and second (ion) waves would vary according to the blast's strength and distance)
The one I was referring to at the beginning of my post was the first (gamma-ray), though I guess its not what one would normally call a "blast" wave.
By the way, I was talking about one of these within probably several hundred light-years of earth. (depending on which way any jets might be pointing)
I would think such a burst would render uninhabitable any planet for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of light-years.
That's very interesting and may end up being very usefull to the story. Again, you will have to forgive my ignorance, but I assume the gamma rays come from a star star. Is that so? Sorry, but I'm not too clued up on this sort of thing. Can anyone explain in greater detail?
QUOTE
gamma rays come from a star
That is what is generally assumed. Basically, a gamma ray burst is the collapse of a star that forms a black hole.
The following may include more information than you need, the more important part is the last half.
When a large star has fused hydrogen it collapses in on itself until it reaches the pressures and temperatures necessary to fuse helium (into carbon and/or oxygen). When the star runs out of helium it collapses further (each time it rebounds after the new reactions begin until it reaches equilibrium with the pressure produced) and begins to fuse carbon and/or oxygen to form calcium and/or silicon and/or sulfur. However, each subsquent fusion episode releases less energy per reaction than the previous. Eventually, very large stars (several times the sun's mass) begin to fuse elements into iron, however, the stars do not gain any energy by fusing iron so it accumulates. The iron does not participate significantly in fusion and builds up in the core until the other types of fusion run out of fuel. Eventually, the fusion going on cannot provide enough pressure to counteract the force of gravity and the star collapses. When the collapse reaches the iron core part of the energy is reflected (it rebounds off of the "surface" of the iron core) this may cause some further fusion and lengthen the life of the star slightly. However, a sufficiently massive star will collapse on the core with so much force that it forces the core to collapse in on itself until it forms a black hole. The newly formed black hole will emit jets into the surrounding material as the material surrounding it forms an accretion disk. These jets run into the surrounding matter at high speed releasing huge amounts of energy in the form of heat and light. The jets and the shockwaves they produce continue to push through the rest of the collapsing star eventually being released when they reach the surface. The shockwave converts itself into high energy gamma rays and a wave of charged particles. The gamma rays and high velocity (moving at over 99% C) run into particles in space (sometimes many light years from the star) producing lower energy gamma rays and more charged particles. Fast moving charged particles in magnetic fields emit radiation through what is called synchotron radiation. Thus, any thing remotely near (in astronomical terms, namely within tens to hundreds of light-years) the collapsing star/new black hole will be blasted by an intense burst of high-energy radiation and charged particles.
As an interesting aside, it may be possible to detect when a gamma ray burst has taken place before the gamma rays arrive. The gamma rays and high-energy particles traveling through the collapsing star run into the matter falling in and are thus prevented from immediately escaping. However, the collapse also forces some protons and electrons to combine into neutrons and release neutrinos. Neutrinos do not interact very much with normal matter and thus escape traveling at nearly the speed of light before the shockwave and gamma rays do. Neutrinos are hard to detect, but if a ship detected them it might have a little time to find shelter (I don't know how much time but probably not more than a few minutes to hours). I would think it would take a lot to shield (several miles of rock would probably be enough) against such an intense burst of gamma rays even at distances of 1000's of light-years. So, I guess a gamma ray burst wouldn't necessarily kill every human, but a large majority. Perhaps any survivors moved on to more hospitable areas of the galaxy (away from any ensuing waves of charged particles and such). The other ship could have been left behind because it was unnoticed and presumed lost. All I'm saying is that there might have been a little warning, just enough for the jupiter ship to hide behind jupiter or something.
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