To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: The Tree Of Life
PhysForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > General Sci-Tech Discussions > Creation / Evolution

newnature
Hi everyone, I’m been reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces; that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series. I’m always trying to learn more about this life, thanks.

Post 1 of the tree of life series

If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to human race.

Sorry all these reasoning of mine are so long.
http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/sear...&max-results=12


Sinister Utopia
Except that there is no evidence to suggest that Adam & Eve or Yahweh ever existed.

Do you have physical evidence to the contrary? By evidence I don't mean your opinion or the opinions, beliefs of others.
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 28 2011, 02:17 AM)
Sorry all these reasoning of mine are so long.
http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/sear...&max-results=12

Sounds like you're stuck on the Jews for Jesus road. Maybe this site can help get you on the right path.
http://jewishatheist.blogspot.com/
newnature
That life Yahweh has within himself, that life is a noun; that life could bring a rock to life.
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 28 2011, 05:09 AM)
That life Yahweh has within himself, that life is a noun; that life could bring a rock to life.

Let us remember that a rock, also a noun, can bring death to life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PENT_hnyO-o
newnature
Rock upside the head, good stuff; but Yeshua said that Yahweh could raise up children to Abraham from these stones, you know when Yeshua was riding on a donkey to Jerusalem. That life is trippe stuff, it can bring any kind of thing to life?
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 28 2011, 11:26 AM)
Rock upside the head, good stuff; but Yeshua said that Yahweh could raise up children to Abraham from these stones, you know when Yeshua was riding on a donkey to Jerusalem. That life is trippe stuff, it can bring any kind of thing to life?

Grasshopper, are you not misquoting the fable? Was it not Yochanan HaMatbi, aka John the Submerger who uttered the reference to Abraham?

QUOTE (Matthew 3:9 +)
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_3:9
newnature
In both of these events, only that life Yahweh has could bring those rocks to life, that life Yahweh has within himself is interesting stuff. It is like taking a hand full of that life stuff and throwing it on a pile of hay, each individual hay that got splashed would be alive with that life Yahweh has within himself. Did Yahweh cause each individual hay to be alive, or did that life cause each individual hay to be alive? That is trippe Physics?
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 28 2011, 02:17 AM)
Hi everyone, I’m been reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces; that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series. I’m always trying to learn more about this life, thanks.

The issue is choice. If this god existed, he created choice by placing two opposing options before man. Eternal life or knowledge of good and evil

You need to consider what this gods intentions were by doing this. First of all, why did god bother creating man. Was it an ego thing? Was this god lonely?

Whatever the reason, why give man a choice? Was it just an experiment?

If this god was all powerful, then why did he have to "build in" a death time for man, after he had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What was the fear? We would realise we could be evil, and would live forever being evil. Why would this god fear that event. Are having knowledge of good and evil and everlasting life all that is required to be a god?

If this gods simple failsafe switch of man dying so that he too cannot become a god after having this knowledge, was negated when this god allowed man to procreate and communicate.

In a way, man has created everlasting life (as long as life can exist in the universe) by creating communication. We apparently have knowledge of good and evil, and for the past few thousand years, man has been writing down what he thinks good and evil are. This knowledge is built on and constantly being re-defined for future generations. Man lives forever through his descendants.

In my books, the score would be : humans 1 - god 0
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 28 2011, 05:09 AM)
That life Yahweh has within himself, that life is a noun; that life could bring a rock to life.

If this god exists, he did not turn a rock into man, this god would have created gasses, matter etc and through an extremely long process of cosmic evolution, man was one of the final products.

Seems like a mad scientist putzkering around trying to create man and after 13 billion years finally succeeding in the creation of man. Not a version of man this god could trust, so he created death to protect godself.

This god could have built in exceptions. If some of mankind were good and reached enlightenment, then let them live forever. I know there are one or two biblical people who did not die and allegedly went up to heaven. If one takes the entire worlds population since recorded history, I cannot believe only 1 or 2 humans out of everyone only came out right. This does not say much for this gods creation.

Your writing in the beginning of the thread, does not account for these few individuals who apparently did not die. If this gods design was to have man die so he does not challenge this god, then that design should have been hard coded and non flexible. If this god bent the rules on a few occasions, it means the entire design is a joke and can be manipulated by this god.

This would not be REAL choice we were given in the beginning. It would be a trick. A deceit and a lie, and if this gods creation is founded on those principles, why should man adhere to them and what right does that god have to criticise or punish those who are deceitful liars when that god is the same.

If a god does exist, he most certainly would not be a god of the bible. You seem like an intelectual of sorts. Excercise your mind outside the constraints of what society dictates. Find other ways of identifying if this god exists, but stop wasting your time with the bible and all its contradictions.

And BTW, using the word Yeshu and Yaweh is pretentious as there is no logical reason for using them in todays world. They are the same proposed entity regardless of what words you use, and using other words, does not lesson the ridiculousness of those proposed entities.
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 29 2011, 02:51 AM)
In both of these events, only that life Yahweh has could bring those rocks to life, that life Yahweh has within himself is interesting stuff. It is like taking a hand full of that life stuff and throwing it on a pile of hay, each individual hay that got splashed would be alive with that life Yahweh has within himself.

Life Yahweh seems to do a lot of spilling and splashing of stuff. Best to keep the black light off when visiting the haunts of life Yahweh.
Ewol
Firstly since taking an interest in how the universe works I have come to believe in an entity within the universe that we know as God.
Secondly I think free will as well as the difference between right and wrong was learned from the tree of knowledge.
In due time man was given a set of laws/rules by which to live and as a guide as to how to use that free will, God did not really directly intervene only trying to guide man into making the right choice but ultimately leaving man to make his own choices. Had we chosen to live by those guidelines we may not be in the mess we are now in and with the power/knowledge to now destroy the planet we have been given how much longer have we got?
The Earth is only ours to look after for our descendants.
newnature
QUOTE (Ewol+Mar 29 2011, 01:53 PM)
Firstly since taking an interest in how the universe works I have come to believe in an entity within the universe that we know as God.
Secondly I think free will as well as the difference between right and wrong was learned from the tree of knowledge.
In due time man was given a set of laws/rules by which to live and as a guide as to how to use that free will, God did not really directly intervene only trying to guide man into making the right choice but ultimately leaving man to make his own choices. Had we chosen to live by those guidelines we may not be in the mess we are now in and with the power/knowledge to now destroy the planet we have been given how much longer have we got?
The Earth is only ours to look after for our descendants.

Don't forget when the earth was in the first heaven, not to many people know to much about the first heaven; we are living on the earth while it is in second heaven. Trippe stuff when that earth was in the first heaven? Thanks for your insights, great stuff, thanks again.
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 29 2011, 09:17 PM)
Don't forget when the earth was in the first heaven, not to many people know to much about the first heaven; we are living on the earth while it is in second heaven. Trippe stuff when that earth was in the first heaven? Thanks for your insights, great stuff, thanks again.

I remember it well, when people lived for 900 years and dinosaurs roamed the planet. It was a wonderfully trippe place indeed.
newnature
QUOTE (Capracus+Mar 29 2011, 09:42 PM)
I remember it well, when people lived for 900 years and dinosaurs roamed the planet. It was a wonderfully trippe place indeed.

Ezekiel 28:11-15; Ezekiel charges that the king of Tyre has overstepped his bounds, because of his wealth; this king deemed his mind equal to a god’s? Ezekiel is picturing this king as a quasi-mythical being in a bejeweled garden of Eden. The king boasts of his wisdom and beauty; Ezekiel employs the imagery of the garden of Eden story to describe the Tyrian king’s downfall. Ezekiel employs the imagery of the cherub to stress the Tyrian king’s power and high position; same as the once-perfect creature is shown to have sinned and therefore was struck down. But the figurative language Ezekiel is using is of a story of a garden of Eden, that
Then you remember what this dude did on the earth when it was in the first heaven?
Yahweh caused to grow on the earth, while the earth was in the first heaven. Although Ezekiel is telling all this to a Tyrian king, the story Ezekiel is using is neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of figures of speech.

Ezekiel tells in this garden story, that their was an individual that was a once-perfect creature. Yet, all the confusion of thought about this individual, have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them. Here the story Ezekiel used of an individual==You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and flawless in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of Yahweh; every precious stone was your adornment; carnelian, chrysolite, and amethyst; beryl, lapis lazuli, and jasper; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and gold beautifully wrought for you, mined for you, prepared the day you were created. I created you as a cherub with outstretched shielding wings, and you resided on Yahweh’s holy mountain; you walked among stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways, from the day you were created, until wrongdoing was found in you. Yes, wrongdoing was found in Lucifer, he had a plan afloat.

No dinosaurs though, they weren't around until the fifth a day, when the earth was in the second heaven, that fifth a day lasted 4 or 5 billion years or so?

fredinjeddah
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 29 2011, 09:56 PM)
No dinosaurs though, they weren't around until the fifth a day, when the earth was in the second heaven, that fifth a day lasted 4 or 5 billion years or so?

How handy that a biblical day can be any time period long.
newnature
QUOTE (fredinjeddah+Mar 30 2011, 05:04 AM)
How handy that a biblical day can be any time period long.

Watch 'How The Earth Was Made' cool show, did you know that this earth was a ball of ice, twice, because of the Rockey mountains, and then the Himalayas mountains, trippe stuff that fifth day time period? But what really is a trip, why did Yahweh keep destroying the life on the earth during that fifth time period?
Capracus
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 30 2011, 08:05 AM)
Watch 'How The Earth Was Made' cool show, did you know that this earth was a ball of ice, twice, because of the Rockey mountains, and then the Himalayas mountains, trippe stuff that fifth day time period? But what really is a trip, why did Yahweh keep destroying the life on the earth during that fifth time period?

Judging by your continued reference to scientific examples, you seem to have at least some degree of respect for scientific explanations for our existence. Now keep in mind that many propositions in science are hypothetical in nature, such as the snowball earth example you cited above, and whether those conditions ever existed remain open questions. Unlike the scriptural accounts you reference, these scientifically derived hypotheses must meet a high standard of investigation just to be considered possible. Do you think it would be reasonable to hold your religious propositions to a similar standard?
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (newnature+Mar 30 2011, 08:05 AM)
Watch 'How The Earth Was Made' cool show, did you know that this earth was a ball of ice, twice, because of the Rockey mountains, and then the Himalayas mountains, trippe stuff that fifth day time period? But what really is a trip, why did Yahweh keep destroying the life on the earth during that fifth time period?

Dude, I think you should lay off the pot/hash for a bit. You see everything as tripee, when all I see is dillusion. Nothing you have written about has any correlation to science. Yours is science fiction and myth.
Goofus A Gallant
OH - Trippy! I've been reading it as "tripe".

So he's just a space case instead of completely incoherent...
soundhertz
QUOTE
Dude, I think you should lay off the pot/hash for a bit.

You can't blame a soft breeze for ships on shore and houses at sea.
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (soundhertz+Mar 30 2011, 03:57 PM)
You can't blame a soft breeze for ships on shore and houses at sea.

Of course you can! You may be wrong, but you can blame the wind for all you want. Who says otherwise?
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.