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gnik_isrever
In the core of Earth Shan was placed by Creator God Aton a brilliant crystal, when he created Earth Shan. Our planet was to be the "seed planet" for the entire Nebadon Universe. From the energy of this crystal all of the Nebadon Universe was created. Because this is so, Earth Shan is the oldest planet in our universe, and because it was the first planet it was also designated as the "supply planet" for this sector of the Nebadon Universe.

There is a civilization of people living in the center of the Earth. The civilization is known as ‘Agartha’. This might be hard to believe, I know it was difficult for me at first. However, I now have absolute knowledge of the truth of it.

In January 1956, Admiral Byrd led an expedition to the South Pole. On that expedition he and his crew penetrated two thousand three hundred miles into the center of the Earth. Admiral Byrd states that the North and South Poles are only two of the many openings into the center of the Earth. Admiral Byrd also states that the inner Earth has it’s own sun. Byrd’s theory is that the poles of the Earth are concave, rather than convex, and ships and planes can actually sail or fly right in.

I can’t help thinking about Jules Verne’s famous science ‘fiction’ book, ‘Journey To The Center Of The Earth’ [Joshua Stone, 1995]. The American press announced Admiral Byrd’s discovery, but it was immediately suppressed by our good friends, the secret government. Ray palmer, the editor of the magazine ‘Flying Saucer’, published a detailed [21] story about Admiral Byrd’s discoveries. The United States government bought, stole, or destroyed almost every copy and then destroyed the plates at the printing office. I have been told exactly the same thing happened to an article about Admiral Byrd’s discovery published by ‘National Geographic’. The magazine was released, and the U.S. government gobbled up almost every issue. If the story was not true, why would the government be so nervous?

It is interesting to note that the United States government does not allow planes to fly over the poles. All flights are directed to go around the poles, and any airline pilot flying in those areas will confirm this. Another interesting point is that icebergs are composed of fresh water, not salt water. It is also curious that it is warmer nearer the poles than it is six hundred to one thousand miles away from them. The opening at the poles might also explain why there are so many UFO sightings in those areas. In his book ‘The Hollow Earth’, Dr. Raymond Bernard tells of a man who has conformed Admiral Byrd’s story.

There are over one hundred subterranean colonies underneath the Earth, all but one of them quite close to the surface. These underground cities have been referred to as the ‘Agartha Network’. Their customs vary, but they follow a common, spiritually oriented structure of living - the Melchizedek teachings. The average population of these cities is five hundred thousand, but Telos, beneath Mt. Shasta, has over 1.5 million inhabitants. A second colony of approximately the same size is located beneath the Matto Grosso Plains of Brazil. This Atlantean outpost is called Posid. Although Atlantis and Lemuria have become myth to most people on the surface of the Earth, in reality they are just continuing their evolution underground.

The Melchizedek are an ancient priesthood that disseminates the teachings of the ‘Great White Brotherhood’ throughout the universe.
Sapo
You should post your tripe in the science fiction section, and yes, you are a crackpot, or certifiably insane. Take your pick. dry.gif
gnik_isrever
Tripe now is it? HA!!! That's a "good" one!

What I have posted is not science fiction, regardless of how much you'd like to be told what the Truth is by your corrupt government, media, and the "scientists" who don't want you to know the Truth.

You continue to attack me as a "crackpot" or as certifiably insane, so you must realize, if you are so sane, of course, that to make slanderous remarks about someone who is honestly presenting information is not a viable option under such a title.

You will be very surprised when your whole "reality" falls out from beneath your feet in the wake of the information and Truth which is coming just as sure as peace on earth.

When you pull your head out of the sand, let me know. I'll be happy to help you understand what is really going on.

Love and Light to you, my sleepy brethren.
BigDumbWeirdo
Isn't it funny how people seem to believe in such things?
I mean, it requires one to believe so many different illogical concepts..
The government has something to gain by hiding such knowledge.
The government is capable of hiding such knowledge.
A few people manage to get their hands on this knowledge.
They choose to share it not by providing evidence to reputable news sources, but by writing books and selling them for profit, or posting them to web sites that make loads of money off of advertising.
Even if one buys into those improbable things, there are many sub-aspects that require a suspension of disbelief that would make Star Wars look like a documentary.
Let's take the first two...
In order for the government to have something to gain by hiding the truth, there must be something to gain in it. New technologies, intelligence on foreign powers, new sources of wealth, etc... Then, there needs to be some reason why keeping it secret would benefit them. Other governments with whom we are not allied might be able to gain access to this knowledge, or it may discredit the officials involved in some way if the truth came out. (Your senator is sodomizing an insectoid extraterrestrial from Pliedes!) This must be outweighed by the PR gained by going public with it, so there must be something about it that isn't palatable to the public. (we're all just the cast of an alien reality tv show, and it's about to be canceled if the government doesn't convince them that we'll do more product placement in the future! [All type III civilizations drink pan galactic gargle blasters!])
Then the government must manage to keep it a secret. So they must hand-pick every person involved in the dealings with such, and somehow believe that they will always remain true to their non-disclosure agreements. They must then monitor these people 24/7, just to ensure that they don't squeal. This means more people get involved in things. Then they must appropriate funding for whatever activities these truths result in the government undertaking. This means more people coming closer to the truth, which means more people to do background checks and monitor them, and so on... The government would want to document everything to do with such important discoveries, so they would need cameramen and reporters. They would also need scientists, engineers and technicians to deal with whatever technologies they are either developing, reverse engineering or discovering. (even if it's not about tech, they'd need scientists to deal with this 'truth' that was previously confined to the realm of science fiction, and experts in whatever they intend to gain, intelligence, resources, etc..) This means MORE people to watch them, blah blah blah.... End result is, you have a bare minimum of a couple of hundred individuals who are involved in this. All of whom are being watched by the government 24/7, so they can't get the truth out. Then the government must take decisive action against anyone who DOES attempt to disseminate the truth, without letting them get any real word out or drawing attention to the actions they took....
Now, let's look at the latter two...
Someone who is involved in such activities (which by necessity would mean a professional, a scientist, an intelligence agent handler, an engineer, bookkeeper, or a technician or some other such needed career) would need to know enough about what's happening (so much for need to know...) and have access to enough evidence to believe they could convince the world would need to decide for one reason or another that the government is wrong to keep this a secret, and resolve to come forward. Then they would need to avoid being caught in what they were doing. So that eliminates pretty much any professional except for intelligence agents. So some agent of the CIA, NSA, or some other Alphabet department dealing in intelligence would have to use all of their tradecraft to get their evidence to a safe place. This person would then need to actually come forward without being killed. This would require anonymity (obviously.)
Then, for reasons unknown, this person would have to choose to avoid showing extraordinary evidence to credible reporters, and choose instead to tell their story in less accessible media. Despite being a highly trained and highly trusted confidant of the government, they would apparently need money so bad that they choose to sell their information instead of giving it away. Then they need to continue avoiding being killed by the government (who would know where they live, what their schedule is, what their finances are like, who their friends and family are, etc, etc etc...) while they continue to spout their knowledge to the "masses."
And all of that is just what I could think up off the top of my head.
I know one thing for sure, if I were that guy, I'd do things a certain way.
First, I'd go into hiding, using all of my tradecraft and years of preparation to accomplish this. Then, I'd contact several people who were gullible enough to buy my tale without evidence, but credible enough to get word out. I'd provide them with enough evidence each to convince a less gullible person, and instruct them to give their information to the local papers and news agencies. Some of them would no doubt be shunned, but one or two would get their fifteen minutes. A few more people would believe at this point, maybe a few hundred or a few thousand. I would then make my evidence publicly available, and sit tight for a few more weeks or months while a movement grew up around it, demanding the truth from the government. Then I'd come public with even more evidence that I'd kept in reserve to establish my bona fide.
I most certainly wouldn't talk about my evidence while keeping it away from anyone who doesn't already believe (what's the point of evidence, if not to convince the masses?) post a few things online, then write a book about it, then buy into every other conspiracy theory out there, the way these people seem to do.
gnik_isrever
I believe in "these things" because they are the Truth. What is illogical about what I posted? Our evil government doesn't want us to know the Truth because then we may choose to wake up from the lie and take our power of thought back. You apparently underestimate the evil abilities of our corrupt government. They have had thousands of years to practice disinformation and cover-ups. Do you really think they are letting you know the Truth? (sic)

EVERY SOULED BEING HAS THE ABILITY TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION AS TRUTH THROUGH THEIR DESIRE TO KNOW THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WITHIN THEM. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE KNOWS ALL THINGS. ANY PERSON WITH THIS SPIRIT WITHIN THEM CAN ASK FOR ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AND RECEIVE THEM TROUGH HONEST DEDICATION.

The people who present the Truth do not do it for profit. They do it for the betterment of the knowledge of Truth of Hu-man kind.

You have a lot of sentences which I believe were meant to discredit my original post, but I see that in NO way did you accomplish your agenda.

You are in for an extreme awakening if you think the evil on this globe does not use conspiracy against We The People.

May you always find the Truth you seek, and please, remove your head from the sand as well... I care not if you believe in Truth or not, for it stands on its own merit, but don't blindly attempt to discredit my offerings. Questions and Constructive Thoughts are Always accepted with honor.

Peace be with you.
occidental
Ok, I know one of us will regret this, but could you clarify something here?

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There are over one hundred subterranean colonies underneath the Earth, all but one of them quite close to the surface. These underground cities have been referred to as the ‘Agartha Network’. Their customs vary, but they follow a common, spiritually oriented structure of living - the Melchizedek teachings. The average population of these cities is five hundred thousand, but Telos, beneath Mt. Shasta, has over 1.5 million inhabitants. A second colony of approximately the same size is located beneath the Matto Grosso Plains of Brazil. This Atlantean outpost is called Posid. Although Atlantis and Lemuria have become myth to most people on the surface of the Earth, in reality they are just continuing their evolution underground.

The Melchizedek are an ancient priesthood that disseminates the teachings of the ‘Great White Brotherhood’ throughout the universe.


Could you provide a source for any of this?
Morris
QUOTE
You will be very surprised when your whole "reality" falls out from beneath your feet in the wake of the information and Truth which is coming just as sure as peace on earth.


All paranoid kids with too much free time like yourself tell me the same thing so I can never know which one is right. And because they are all stupid enough to tell me the that the argument for them being right is the "fact" that they are right I find myself in the same problem of not being able to tell the difference. Can you tell me a method to notice which of you kids is right or is all this tale you post based on personal faith? Because if it is based on that you and all the paranoid kids are on the wrong place.
mandible
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You have a lot of sentences which I believe were meant to discredit my original post, but I see that in NO way did you accomplish your agenda.


You discredit yourself with contradiction. Try embracing the scientific method, as it has been designed with Truth in mind. However, you can only know this by being truthful yourself. Opposing large chunks of Humanity is not an alignment with Truth, and that goes for anyone at all who 'believes' in any kind of ideology based on separation.

Do yourself a favour and find out what Truth is.

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You have a lot of sentences which I believe were meant to discredit my original post, but I see that in NO way did you accomplish your agenda.


You discredit yourself with contradiction. Try embracing the scientific method, as it has been designed with Truth in mind. However, you can only know this by being truthful yourself. Opposing large chunks of Humanity is not an alignment with Truth, and that goes for anyone at all who 'believes' in any kind of ideology based on separation.

Do yourself a favour and find out what Truth is.

I believe in "these things" because they are the Truth.


Truth does not 'believe', it knows, which is why the scientific method has been developed.


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BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 14 2007, 09:54 PM)
I believe in "these things" because they are the Truth. What is illogical about what I posted? Our evil government doesn't want us to know the Truth ... and so on and so forth...

You believe them to be the truth because you want to.
I'll give you one (more, because I've already given over a dozen in my last post) example of something that is illogical about your statement.
"Our evil government"
You keep describing and seeing the government as the evil enemy (and the black and white morality of that is itself, illogical) without ever stopping to think that maybe the government is not made of human clones, fanatically devoted to the suppression of truth. It is made up of the citizens of the United States, the very group you claim they are working against. That's incredibly illogical.Senators, Congressmen, Presidents, Advisers, Secretaries of various aspects, Intelligence analysts, intelligence asset handlers, undercover operatives, scientists, military personnel... They are JUST LIKE US!!!!! They ARE US!!!! They have families, differing wants and desires, morals (or the lack thereof) and so on and so forth....
Your belief that the government is some evil organization trying to maintain some sort of monopoly of knowledge over the people is akin to the old expression "cutting off the nose to spite the face."
It's the most illogical thing a person could believe about our government. It's actually MORE logical to think that the government has alien technologies stored away somewhere, than it is to think that they have any particular desire to suppress such a world-changing bit of knowledge as that which you present.

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Try embracing the scientific method, as it has been designed with Truth in mind

I hate to disagree with someone dispensing such advice to gnik, but the scientific method was devised with FACT in mind. Truth is subjective, fact is objective. Science has nothing to do with truth, only facts.
mandible
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Science has nothing to do with truth, only facts.


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Please, you are not trying to say that they are different things? Would it not be better to say that opinion is subjective, and may also contain a certain amount of truth, but that a fact must be true?


Arguing with people who are trying to agree with you, might give you a clue as to the origins of 'anti-government' mania that seems to be gaining momentum at the moment.
Doesn't bother me, I can always climb back into my space ship and be back on my home planet in seconds!



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BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 15 2007, 02:41 PM)

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Please, you are not trying to say that they are different things? Would it not be better to say that opinion is subjective, and may also contain a certain amount of truth, but that a fact must be true?


Arguing with people who are trying to agree with you, might give you a clue as to the origins of 'anti-government' mania that seems to be gaining momentum at the moment.
Doesn't bother me, I can always climb back into my space ship and be back on my home planet in seconds!



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I love my girlfriend, and that is the truth. Now, try to prove it.
The sky appears blue, and that is a fact. It is also easy to prove.
The universe exists outside of our minds, and that is the truth. Try to prove that anything you're not interacting with exists. You can't.
As a wonderful example of this, I'm sure if Gnik were hooked up to a polygraph test, or sat down in front of a trained interviewer and repeated these assertions, the results of such testing would be that he told the truth. Does that make it factually accurate? Not even close.
Facts are objective, they can be proven. Truth is subjective, and is -like beauty- in the eye of the beholder.
Alternatively, find the word "truth" anywhere in any accepted description of the scientific method. Find the word "truth" mentioned anywhere in any peer-reviewed scientific paper. You won't find it. Truth is the realm of philosophy. Facts and theories are the realm of science.


Don't start this argument like Parsons did, you'll only end up in the same spot, negged to death by the FM and anyone with a decent understanding of scientific literacy, and running around in circles trying to prove the unprovable.
mandible
QUOTE
The universe exists outside of our minds, and that is the truth. Try to prove that anything you're not interacting with exists. You can't.


You are interacting with the universe, otherwise you would not exist. You are born of this Earth, which was born of the Universe. Therefore what you state is not Truth, but is something falsely believed by you to be 'truth'.

I must say, you have a very strange 'method' of 'scientific' enquiry. And please state, why you feel the need to threaten me?

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The universe exists outside of our minds, and that is the truth. Try to prove that anything you're not interacting with exists. You can't.


You are interacting with the universe, otherwise you would not exist. You are born of this Earth, which was born of the Universe. Therefore what you state is not Truth, but is something falsely believed by you to be 'truth'.

I must say, you have a very strange 'method' of 'scientific' enquiry. And please state, why you feel the need to threaten me?

Don't start this argument like Parsons did, you'll only end up in the same spot, negged to death by the FM and anyone with a decent understanding of scientific literacy, and running around in circles trying to prove the unprovable.


You think 'scientific literacy' includes things that are 'unprovable'? Why ever do you bother at all?


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Science has nothing to do with truth


Don't forget you are representing your 'forum mafia' with such statements. Are you here to do any good, or are you really just a bunch of thugs?



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BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 15 2007, 03:26 PM)
You are interacting with the universe, otherwise you would not exist. You are born of this Earth, which was born of the Universe. Therefore what you state is not Truth, but is something falsely believed by you to be 'truth'.

So I'm interacting with the particles undergoing fusion reaction inside the sun? And those particles which make up the Andromeda galaxy? And the particles at the Earth's core? Wow. Brilliant logic, there. By your own implied definition (through your usage) of 'truth,' what I said is the truth, yet you claim it to be false. Why is that? Contradicting yourself in within a single point is not indicative of good debating skills.

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I must say, you have a very strange 'method' of 'scientific' enquiry. And please state, why you feel the need to threaten me?

1: I haven't threatened you. 2: provide any evidence that I am wrong. Here, I'll pose a specific challenge to you, again.
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I must say, you have a very strange 'method' of 'scientific' enquiry. And please state, why you feel the need to threaten me?

1: I haven't threatened you. 2: provide any evidence that I am wrong. Here, I'll pose a specific challenge to you, again.
Find the word "truth" mentioned anywhere in any peer-reviewed scientific paper.
3: you misspelled inquiry. Use the spell checker. And your use of '' isn't quite grammatically correct, either. Unless of course, you think that there are no such thing as 'methods' or 'science.' Then it's proper usage.

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You think 'scientific literacy' includes things that are 'unprovable'? Why ever do you bother at all?

Nice attempt to set up a strawman. Either that or to misunderstand the unbelievably simple statements I made. Argumentativeness or idiocy, which is it?

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You think 'scientific literacy' includes things that are 'unprovable'? Why ever do you bother at all?

Nice attempt to set up a strawman. Either that or to misunderstand the unbelievably simple statements I made. Argumentativeness or idiocy, which is it?

Don't forget you are representing your 'forum mafia' with such statements. Are you here to do any good, or are you really just a bunch of thugs?

Just a bunch of thugs, as far as the cranks are concerned.

Got anything to say about the "truth" measured by polygraphs and human lie detectors, or are you just going to ignore what you can't respond to? That's bad debating, as is your earlier misconception/attempt-to-set-up-a-strawman.
Here's an example of good debating. I withdraw my challenge to find the word truth in the definition of the scientific method, as it DOES see use in several definitions, even if only as a substitute for "factual accuracy."
Withdrawing a flawed point is good debating. Strawmen, misconceptions and ignoring points isn't.
Here's another point for you to address/ignore as you will...
Why is it that while the two words ('truth' and 'fact') share certain meanings, a qualifier is needed to define one when using the the other? Example:
(From www.dictionary.com definition of 'fact')
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truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

(from www.dictionary.com definition of 'truth')
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truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

(from www.dictionary.com definition of 'truth')
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 

Why is it that a truth need be "known by actual experience or observation" to be a fact, if the two are the exact same thing?
Why is it that truth is said to have "conformity with fact" if the two are the exact same thing?
I'm not saying there's no overlap. I'm not saying that a sentence couldn't replace the word 'fact' with the word 'truth' and still maintain the same meaning under the right circumstance. I'm saying that truth is subjective. A person CAN tell the truth and then be proven wrong. A person CANNOT give a fact and then be proven wrong.

For the record, pay attention when you use the feedback function. I like having my feedback score go up, but I prefer to get negs from cranks, not pos'. Please be sure to neg me in one week, so I can add you to my list...
mandible
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Don't start this argument like Parsons did, you'll only end up in the same spot, negged to death by the FM


Yes. This is you, isn't it? It is. You've just 'negged' me. IT IS YOU!

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Don't start this argument like Parsons did, you'll only end up in the same spot, negged to death by the FM


Yes. This is you, isn't it? It is. You've just 'negged' me. IT IS YOU!

Just a bunch of thugs, as far as the cranks are concerned.


Yes. It IS YOU!

FYI. I never 'neg' anyone. I think there is enough 'neg' in the world as it is.


What a childish person you are, pretending to be 'sensible'! (Looks like politics, to me.)

Oh, and FYFI, I always pay attention, and therefore never need to be ordered to do so.

Have fun with your bullying!



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gnik_isrever
All right!!! I am enjoying the conversation here, people!!! That is what I am rooting for!

I will answer ALL of your questions and address the comments, in which I use insight to see as erroneous, in order to clarify the Truth for you, my brethren. Thank you for responding. I appreciate it.

First up, drum roll please… Occidental!

I desire to choose not to have regret, for that is a limiting physical expressing emotion. (Not good for Knowledge of Higher Planes)
I sure can provide a “source” for that information.

For physical ‘by word and convincing evidence’, check out this presentation of information by entering “fourwinds10.com” into your browser, then using the site’s search engine under “fourwinds website” (not web), typing in Agartha and/or Hollow Earth, and then viewing the articles and links from the articles. It is quite interesting to read the whole book based upon a boy and his father who actually traveled into the inner earth in just a small boat! They went in the North entrance, then came out the South, only the boy’s father didn’t “make it” and the boy was ‘determined’ insane and caged up for speaking Truth. Tisk, tisk.

The only REAL SOURCE for ‘ANY’ of ANYTHING is the One Light of All That Is, which can be found only Within yourself. May you go there to ask and receive the Truth you seek. Thank you for your question. It is appreciated.


Next!!! … ***! I must say, only a very unbalanced way of thinking would create that ego-filled name.

I Am not paranoid, for that is an illusion of perception caused from unbalanced thinking.

Please allow me to ask YOU a question… How can one have “too much free time”? We are all given free-will, so in essence ALL OF OUR “TIME” IS “FREE” TIME, is it not? Even paranoid kids are telling you to wake up? Interesting to know. If you think you can “never know”, then indeed you will be choosing not to know. Another question please… What makes you think that only “one is right”? Until you look within for your answers you shall remain in your opinions and not within the Knowing of the Truth of Light.

If it is you who is “not able” to tell the difference between Truth or lie, then might I suggest you refrain from unbalanced thoughts such as JUDGEMENT of your fellow man such as labeling same “stupid”.

Yes, I can tell you a method to notice what is Truth and what is Lie. This is the method: Look Within, Ask Within, Receive Answers, Act Upon Answers, and finally USE DISCERNMENT.

Yet another question for you… If I see a green apple and then proceed to tell you a tale about an apple that I saw, which was green, but you were not around, and hence did not see the apple when it happened, and you refuse to go searching for same, does that mean that I based my tale on personal faith? Ponder this most carefully, chela.


Third time is the charm! … Mandible

I do no such thing as discredit myself, nor do I have ANY contradiction. Seeming contradiction? Maybe… but only to the “un-trained” EYE. I can understand. There is a lot of disinformation “out” to confuse and control you ones in your perceived limitations upon this place of physical density. I have no problem telling you this, for my EYE was “un-trained” at sometime, too.

I have a few questions for you… What makes you so sure I am not embracing the scientific method?

Have you ever given thought and consideration to that VERY FEW members of our given “Humanity” are in alignment with Truth?

What ideology is EVER based on separation?

You are correct. Truth does not believe. I BELIEVE in the KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH, and hence I believe the Truth, but do not let ANY ONE FOOL YOU ON “THIS ONE” Mandible: The LEAST important thing is what one or their neighbor BELIEVES. The MOST important thing is what one DOES TO their neighbor.


Finally… YOU IN THE BACK! Yeah YOU!… BigDumbWeirdo! (Is that not humorous as well as IMBALANCED [the name]?)

I believe “these things” because I MUST IF I AM TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. Yes, I also want to believe in the knowledge of the information presented of Truth.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That is good for a big ONE!

I only discern through CAREFUL judgement of ACTIONS that are contrary to the Laws of Balance. I stand in judgement of NO MAN, only in his/her actions may we WISELY JUDGE ALL BEHAVIOR which is defiant of the Laws of Creation and Nature and Balance WHICH IS LOGIC “ITSELF”. If an action/behavior is against or ADVERSARIAL toward the inexorable LAWS of LIFE which encompass ALL, then I MUST JUDGE THAT ACTION/BEHAVIOR AS EVIL (IMBALANCE) IN ORDER TO BRING BALANCE TO THE SITUATION OR CIRCUMSTANCE IN THE LOVE OF WISDOM. IT MUST BE “BLACK OR WHITE” FOR THERE ARE NO “GREY AREAS”, CHELA (student of life)!!! NONE AT ALL! SO BE IT. ONE IS EITHER DOING EVIL OR DOING “GOOD” THERE IS NO INBETWEEN. If you do not like that then it may behoove you to know that sometimes, nay-- MANY TIMES, the Truth “hurts”. It is as simple or as complicated as that. Just keep in mind that it ALWAYS EMPOWERS, and it NEVER CONTAMINATES.

I played out this entire lifestream up until a few short years ago “stopping to think” that the government was not made MOSTLY of human CLONES and in the erroneous thinking that my government was not COMPLETELY “FANATICALLY” DEVOTED to the suppression of Truth, therefore your accusation is false that I never did.

DO YOU NOT SEE THAT THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAWS OF BALANCE, HAS BEEN RAPED FROM US? EVERY TIME THEY BREAK THE REAL LAWS OF LIFE, THEY ARE BEING EVIL, and trust me, THEY HAVE BROKEN EVERY SINGLE ONE ON PURPOSE TO GAIN “POWER” and CONTROL OVER US. The real government under the CONSTITUTION is good. DURING THESE TIMES I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE BEING TAKEN AWAY WITHOUT EVEN BEING GIVEN ANY EXPLANATION! Do you know what they were doing? READING THE CONSTITUTION. If it is illogical to think that THAT is evil, then I would definitely be illogical, but it is not, and nor will the rape of our GOD given rights EVER be logical.

I have no desire to change what you would like to believe as Truth or Lie. I do, however honestly (although quite directly, and pardon me if I do forget to be gentle sometimes for I do attempt to) PRESENT THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH TO YOU THE PEOPLE, MY SLEEPY BRETHREN.

WAKE UP, WAKE UP, WAKE UP! Will you choose to hear? The choice is yours alone, for NOT ONE will choose FOR YOU, but I am here to help you and can work WITH YOU at but a thought’s notice.

Again, I do embrace the scientific method. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH IN ALL OF EXISTENCE: that of SPIRIT of the ONE LIGHT, our Father God/Aton Within.

Until science “has to do” with TRUTH, instead of what are most erroneously labeled “facts” in its IGNORANCE OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE, it is not REAL SCIENCE. ONLY SPIRIT IS REAL.


O.K.… well now you all posted a lot more in the time it took me to write all this, so you figure out where I got to and I WILL continue with the rest! Thank you.

In Love and Light,
Graeme Daryl Whitmeyer come in service to God/Aton of Light and to you my brethren of Earth-Shan.
Sapo
I swear, there must be a colony of them. Let one of the misbegotten get to a 60% warn level, and sure as death, another crazy person comes shouting down the sidewalk.

There's something here that attracts them. laugh.gif
mandible
Good grief!

What do you call a collection of messiahs?

- A Gaggle?

No, wait, I have a better one...


- A Parsonage!

A parsonage of messiahs!! (Underwater messiahs with snorkels and flippers, and fake beards!)

Ah yes, this is more like it. Science in action!



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Sapo
laugh.gif Thank you, sir! laugh.gif
mandible
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Some people REALLY know how to offend the religious...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7146354.stm



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occidental
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 16 2007, 02:10 AM)
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Some people REALLY know how to offend the religious...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7146354.stm



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De Burgh is expected to visit Iran early next year as a tourist

Looks like someone needs a better tourist agent.
gnik_isrever
I AM NONE RELIGIOUS! ALL OF THE RELIGIONS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY THE ADVERSARY OF THE TRUE ONE GOD OF LIGHT AND LOVE IN ORDER TO DISCREDIT THE TRUTH OF LIFE. I suggest you understand this well.

I am Graeme Daryl Whitmeyer, and I come in service to Aton and to my brethren here on Shan.

TIME TO WAKE UP, SLEEPIES!!!

First of all, I give much gratitude to Physorg Forums in that I find myself in a circumstance where people have the opportunity to hear the Truth. With that said, I also give thanks to every one of you who is so ready and willing to take the time to appreciate or incorporate this Truth into your Life. This Truth will correct and update areas of science which are not now in accordance with the natural processes of nature such as the Rutherford-Bohr concept and model of the atom, the expanding universe concept, the laws of thermodynamics, and the nature of light and sound. The understanding and application of these Truths will lead mankind into three great “miracles” possible for man’s usage in the world today which are as follows:

1. Power projection from anywhere to wherever one wishes to project it without the need of wires or cables. Tesla already had that scientifically perfected.
2. The power of converting solar rays to light and power. Tesla also had that well under development. J.P. Morgan, himself, buried these things from your use—good old Bankster that he was!
3. The power of transmuting one element of matter to another. Now you KNOW that you CAN do this for all you have to do is look at plain old table salt. It is just a matter of understanding physics as properly given.

Let us begin with explaining the tragedy of modern science. The ultimately supreme need of the human race at this stage of unfolding is the discovery of the existence and identity of a comprehensible God by methods and processes which will meet the requirements and standards demanded in the laboratories of science as well as within the heart and consciousness of man. The tragedy of modern science is that it has already made this supreme discovery but is not aware of it. Because of the present-day misconception of the universe, fear has been created by man which leads to war and the preying of man upon man, and is the dominant note upon which our civilization has been constructed. When the day comes that fear leaves man and love enters, the age of slaughter of man by man will end and the age of character will begin. Deeper still than science, which should have discovered the God of Love (BALANCE), or religion, which created a god of fear and wrath, is the basic cause of man's self-made troubles-- and that is MAN, himself, who strayed from God's Natural Law at the dawn of Consciousness and has continued to do so to this very moment. Alexis Carrel was right in saying that all of man's institutions-- and these include government, industry, education and home relations-- were man-governed and out of balance with themselves and with each other and must, therefore, all be changed to obey the laws of Nature. This is why you must understand the law of rhythmic balanced interchange between all opposite pairs in Nature. When the day comes that this is so, a cohesive, unified and forever enduring civilization will emerge, resulting in the transcendency of man from his present lowly status to that final goal of his Creator's intent where he can knowingly say, "I and my Father are ONE."

Next, we look into the foundations of our present beliefs and why they are faulty. This refers to "International Science".:

It is strange but true that so little a thing as a wrong terminology adopted by science can be blamed for the tragedy of man even as so little a thing as a flaw in a rail can throw a whole trainload off its course and destroy many human lives. That wrong terminology is based upon the concept of an electromagnetic universe. In order to comprehend the power of motion in its desire to create heat and visible light out of the cold invisible Light at rest, which Mind is, Creation must henceforth be looked upon as a universe of Mind-imagining having no reality and be known as AN OPTICAL UNIVERSE OF GRAVITY-CONTROLLED LIGHT, for God is Light and God's Mind THINKS in waves of light. The secret of Creation lies within the light-waves of motion which gravity compresses into rings of light in which density first increases toward the outside by thrusting outward from within until the centering holes have been closed into hot spheres. Density then increases in the inward direction. This is accomplished by the octave-wave process which multiplies power by projecting it from the stillness of its Mind-source by dividing it into mated pairs which science calls the elements of matter. This constitutes the sex-principle of life which science has so strangely neglected to observe as being the BASIC FACTOR OF MOTION. Failure to recognize the secret of life as being the sex principle which lies within the motion of light-waves: The alternating sequences of compression and expansion are the very cause of motion as indicated by their sequential equally interchanging inbreathings and outbreathings. It is these very generative, compressive inbreathings from the cold of space which cause the multiplication of heat in your body or in the body of the sun. Radiative outbreathings then divide it by expansion. To designate this effect of compression-expansion sequences by electric terminology such as positive and negative charges is totally unlike Nature's processes of creation of matter. It overlooks the fact that these action-reaction sequences are interchanges between the heat and cold of the divided spectrum of matter. Man's laboratories are unaware of the fact that they are unknowingly on the way to discovering the transmutation process, for that process demands the power and knowledge to control gravity in such a manner that they can compress or expand it to high limits. Why, therefore, relate effect to electricity when light and power companies have only light and heat to sell? Why, also, relate them to magnetism when they have no magnetism to sell? Power companies can produce light and heat only by resistance to motion, which induction accomplishes. Friction, induction, and compression ARE ONE. If a man scrapes his feet on a rug and touches metal, he will produce a light only. Why call it electricity? If a meteorite, or a spacecraft, springs into visible light by the friction of resistance through the atmosphere, it produces light only. Why call it electricity or electromagnetism? One can produce visible light and great heat by focusing centripetal rays upon cold bodies through biconvex lenses, but that would not justify the light thus produced to be termed opticity. The term "magnetism" is also unjustifiable. The word GRAVITY would be used instead, for gravity both multiplies and divides by thrusting inward from without to compress and outward from within to expand. In this manner, gravity controls light by controlling its curvature, and Mind also controls gravity by limiting both outward thrusts to the cube mirror planes of zero curvature. This is in complete opposition to the Newtonian law of gravity which claims that gravity pulls inward toward a center and that matter attracts matter. It is also in opposition to the second law of thermodynamics which claims that energy cannot run uphill but only downhill. Factually, there is no inward pull of light toward a center nor are there such effects as attraction or repulsion of matter (meaning light) to other matter. No scientist can create energy by pulling inward from within. It must be produced by thrusting inward from without, as an automobile tire is pumped. That means by compression. If the tire were made of a metal which could not be burst by that compressive inward thrust, it would cause it to create a ring of intensely hot visible light at its center and density would then increase inwardly, as stars and planets increase their densities in the inward direction. Science has already done this but does not admit that the energy thus created was projected into it, for science claims that matter itself is energy. Science creates air-conditioning and refrigeration that way. By continuing the freezing process to near absolute zero of cold, it can also multiply the power of conductivity of such soft metals as aluminum to equal that of harder metals such as copper. Many laboratories have already done this, and the Du Pont Company has created what it terms new non-conductive substances by the opposite direction of expansion. All of these laboratories have been on the way to a solution of the principle of transmutation but, unfortunately, are unaware of it. Furthermore, they have also been on the way to the control of gravity, which a certain distinguished scientist said would climax all discoveries by giving man an unlimited command over matter. Science has long ago been in control of gravity but is, unfortunately, also unaware of that. Bear in mind our new law of the cycles which may be put this way: Cold generates heat and heat radiates heat to cold. This applies to the interchange between all pairs of opposites. All of these pairs of opposites express their forces at angles of ninety degrees from their axes of rotation.

The concept of the expanding universe, without the power to generate an uphill flow of energy as well as to expand it into a heat-death, is untenable. The concept of the expanding universe grew out of the present belief that the universe was created eons ago by some cataclysmic effect that created a ball of heat which is now expanding into the presumed nothingness of space. To say that the universe will "die" because THE LIGHT WHICH GOD IS will go out is equivalent to saying that God, its Creator, will die or will cease to think.

The Coulomb Law raises the most momentous questions of all time, questions which the greatest logicians of history have been unable to solve. Mathematics will not solve them with equations which are but assumptions. No human can solve that supreme mystery except one who KNOWS the Cosmic Source and CAUSE of ALL things. It is a small wonder that Newton was deceived. His senses perceived that an apple fell TO the ground. He did not perceive that as the apple fell, its equal in potential arose simultaneously FROM the ground and sequentially the entire apple arose FROM the ground and its equal potential fell TO it. The law reads as follows: Like poles repel and unlike poles attract. Coulomb uses the term "magnetism" under the "ASSUMPTION" that this universe is an electromagnetic one, but that means "matter" which is the term used by Newton. Both of them overlooked the vital fact that there is a zero of attraction and repulsion between stars or planets and between poles of a bar magnet. Astronauts find that zero position but they do not call it "magnetism"; they call it "GRAVITY" and that is what it is. It seems as illogical for Coulomb to have assumed that the iron fillings were attracted tot he bar magnet-- which sould properly be termed a "gravity bar"-- as it is for Newton to have assumed that the falling apple was attracted to earth. To have told either of them that both the apple and the filings were projected there by the force of compression exerted from the outward toward the inward direction, instead of pulling inward from without, would have been met with a blank stare and not listened to. The complete description of the wave is THE UNDIVIDED AND THE DIVIDED-MULTIPLIED UNIVERSE. This completes the wave cycle. The DIVIDED UNIVERSE accounts for but one swing of the cosmic pendulum. It does not account for its countless repetitions which have given you a universe which had no beginnings and has no endings. This new two-way principle accounts for the simultaneous invisible swing of the pendulum from its zero of stillness to its compression focus and back again through expansion. It also accounts for the voidance principle which makes of this universe an imagined one in which every happening anywhere is voided by its equal "unhappening" everywhere. In the closing discussion of the Coulumb Law: EVERY ACTION-REACTION OF WAVE MOTION IS VOIDED AS IT OCCURS, IS REPEATED AS IT IS VOIDED, AND IS RECORDED AS IT IS REPEATED.

The theory of atomic structure, the Rutherford-Bohr theory, claims that every atom has a nucleus which is held together by some mysterious "glue", but no scientist has yet discovered what that "glue" is. Every scientist does know, however, that a compression pump will not only produce heat but will hold it together as one mass, and that a vacuum pump will take the heat out of it and produce cold. Why search any longer for that "glue" for compression lies at the end of that useless search? Science also claims that its nuclei are surrounded by various layers of electrons which revolve around them in certain mathematical layers in planes which do not parallel the equator of its nucleus. Nature gives no precedent for such a peculiar action. Suns and planets are surrounded solely by rings which revolve around their equators. They revolve around their centering suns but in an outward direction and not at fixed levels. Nature has no precedent for that action for motion is spiral. The directional movement of all planets is centrifugal. If Science really knew what electrons are, it would not sustain that theory for one second. Electrons do not revolve in orbits around any nucleus. In fact, they do not have a nucleus. They spring from the zero inert gases of their octave toward a nucleus in the first element of their fourth octave-- as lithium springs from helium-- then multiply in cube ratio at each step toward carbon.

This will deal with that which we will simply refer to henceforth as the New Laws of Thermodynamics. Past lessons have very plainly explained the Creator's process of causing a visible universe of hot light of suns and stars to appear from the inconceivably cold light of space and then to disappear into it or, as man describes it, to be swallowed up by it, yet man has never yet been able to discover that process. The main reason for that failure is that his concept of the creation of the visible light universe is that it was created out of some cataclysmic happening in the universe which resulted in a great ball of fire. Believing this, he reasons that that ball of fire will gradually cool by splitting up into smaller balls of fire. That belief is the basis of his theory that energy lies in matter itself and of the expanding universe which will cause the eventual death of the universe. The name given to that cosmic death is ENTROPY. Out of that same concept of the birth of Creation grew the belief that energy cannot run uphill but only downhill. To formulate that into a system, the first and second laws of thermodynamics were formed, with emphasis on the second. It is very strange that such a code of laws could ever have been written or followed as sacrosanct by modern science in view of the fact that every laboratory of Earth is today making energy run uphill by multiplying the stillness of fifteen pounds pressure per square inch to thousands of pounds pressure by compressing room temperature to an incandescence which can melt the hardest steel into vapors in a few seconds. Here are the New Laws of Thermodynamics:

1. Cold generates energy. Heat radiates energy. Cold multiplies. It cannot divide for it is the fulcrum of the universe which must extend to multiply. Heat divides. It cannot multiply but can be multiplied.

2. Every action must be preceded and followed by its equal and opposite reaction. Heat is the reaction of cold. Heat could not come into being save for the compressive action of cold, nor could it repeat itself without losing itself in basic cold.

3. Cold is static, unchanging and unconditioned. It eternally lives. Cold light is the basic ONE THING of this universe. Heat waves are dynamic, forever changing and dually conditioned. They are eternally living and dying to simulate life.

4. Cold light is the omnipresent basis of universal intelligence and energy. Hot waves of light, which man calls matter, are a simulation of intelligence and energy. There is no intelligence or energy in matter.

5. Static cold and dynamic heat express their opposite energies at angles of ninety degrees from their axes of rotation. Cold retains its static, motionless condition along wave axes where motion ceases at points of maximum heat, while heat extends along equators to again expand as cold. This balanced interchanging completes the wave cycle.

6. Cold compresses. Cold multiplies cold to create heat. Heat expands to divide heat into cold. Varied pressures of heat constitute the octave color spectrum cycles and the octave chemical cycles of matter. Their varied wave lengths are the basis of your mathematics.

7. Long low waves of low potential and high frequencies constitute the invisible spectrum and low density gases while short high waves of high potential and low frequencies constitute the basis for high density.

Now let us consider the nature of light and sound. Optics itself makes one conspicuous mistake, and it is a most serious one because it misleads one as to the nature of light. It constantly speaks of, and diagrams, PARALLEL rays of light. THERE ARE NO PARALLEL RAYS OF LIGHT IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE. THEY EITHER DIVERGE OR CONVERGE. Look about you in your own room at night. Every light in it sends curved diverging rays which converge in every other light. Look down from a plane onto cities and separating meadows. You see the prototypes of stars and star clusters in which high potential short waves lead to low potential long waves in curved rays which converge in every other light in the universe in the same manner. That is God's way of intercommunicating and recording the actions and reactions of interchanging pairs of opposites in His universe. And that is man's way, also, of multiplying space silence into audible sound by his radar system. In fact, the multiplication of silence into sound parallels man's multiplication of invisible light into visible light. Both light and silence are eternal and basic, while visible light and sound are transient repetitions. It will strike one as strange to think of sound and silence in terms of compression and expansion, heat and cold, and other such cycles of opposites and interchanges of pulsations, but they are just that. Just as cold is the fulcrum upon which its heat extends so, also, is silence the fulcrum upon which sound extends. Likewise, just as heat appears from cold and disappears into it, sound appears from silence and is "swallowed up" by it. Both light and sound are the repercussions resulting from the collision of any two or more objects or forces. Wave pulsations constitute a force of compression in fulfilling their process of creating matter. Every collision of a wave gives forth a sound when it reaches its amplitude anode. It also gives forth light and heat. In other words, light and sound live and die as all effects of wave motions live and die. Even the sounds of the most violent explosions spread out and gradually die, just as man and all transient life likewise do.

So now, let us emphasize the following facts:

1. That every effect is an optical effect;
2. That every action-reaction-- such as inbreathing and outbreathing, compression and expansion-- is two-way, not one-way, which means that this is a reciprocating, continuous, pendulum-swinging universe of rhythmic balanced interchange between the cold stillness of space and the compression-heated moving universe;
3. That it is a universe of repetitive uphill and downhill flow and that the "expanding universe" is inconsistent with Nature's processes;
4. That, as a consequence, the present laws of thermodynamics necessarily picture a dying, heat-death universe known as "entropy" instead of an eternal one created by and eternal God;
5. That gravity is the controller of light and that light is the ONE THING in all Nature;
6. That science has mistaken magnetism for gravity and light-waves are known as "electricity";
7. Finally, that every effect is a photographic effect made by opening-closing diaphragms of the Cosmic Camera which makes this universe an optical, photosynthetic universe of gravity-controlled light instead of the electro-magnetic universe of the present era's concept.

Added to this list is that atoms were not solid spheres but only empty ones with holes in them which had to become closed before they could become solid. They, therefore, had no nuclei until they reached their wave amplitudes where they were united as one complete spectrum unit. They then divided into pairs where they could reproduce themselves as father and mother pairs of the sexed universe. Also added is emphasis on the fact that although two curvatures were the only tools for creating this curved universe of matter, just one tool (the cube) is used for repeating these pulsations of interchanging between the two curvatures.

To wrap up this article of Cosmic Science and Infinite Technology allow me to introduce to you the basic design for a device which can be built which utilizes this highly advanced knowledge of the spiraling nature of reality. Another failure of international science is not to have discovered that the solenoid coils of its research laboratories are improperly-therefore inefficiently-wound. Did Mr. Tesla realize this? Indeed he did and that is when the real thrust was made to get rid of him. Not having discovered that the universe is an optical universe of gravity-controlled light instead of an electromagnetic one, it has wound its coils cylindrically instead of conically. Also, it has wound them without taking consideration of the collisions which necessitate opposite clockwise and counter-clockwise directions for each coil to create maximum gravity power without violating Nature's one direction. Also, it has not discovered that there are four pairs of gravity poles on each gravity bar instead of only one pair at its ends. There MUST be in order to account for the octave multiplying-and-dividing power which the wave is created to fulfill. These four focal pairs are located on each side of its centering zero, the square of the distance from each other. They not only create the elements of compressed light and heat but also create the spectrum which is the measure of heat as well as being the sex and life principles of Creation. Nature winds its coils all going around their axes in the same direction but each coil having a clockwise direction from one center and a counter-clockwise direction from the other. This accounts for an equator for the expansion ends, the cathodes of cold space, and another equator for the compression ends, the anodes of hot suns. A little consideration given to this process of Nature will dispel any wonderment as to the source of the sun's energy and, also, it will account for the curvature of gravity in space.

[ALL KNOWLEDGE HERE WAS PROVIDED FREELY FROM VIOLINIO GERMAIN WITH AN URGE TO SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE!!! MY PERSONAL THANKS GO OUT TO DHARMA FOR THE RECORDING OF MANY (THIS IS A VERY, VERY SMALL EXCERPT COMPILATION) MESSAGES LIKE SUCH, AND TO GERMAIN-- COHAN OF THE SEVENTH RAY, MASTER TEACHER OF ALCHEMY AND TRANSMUTATION-- FOR HIS EFFORT THAT WE MIGHT BE AGAIN WHOLE.]
N O M
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 15 2007, 02:54 PM)
IEVERY SOULED BEING HAS THE ABILITY TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION AS TRUTH THROUGH THEIR DESIRE TO KNOW THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WITHIN THEM. THE SPIRIT OF LIFE KNOWS ALL THINGS. ANY PERSON WITH THIS SPIRIT WITHIN THEM CAN ASK FOR ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AND RECEIVE THEM TROUGH HONEST DEDICATION.

Hi Nick tongue.gif I wondered when you would be back tongue.gif
gnik_isrever
"Nick"?

... um... I think you have me confused with someone else, maybe. Unless you are just using that as a nick-name for my confusing screen name.

Gnik_Isrever=Reversi King!
Sunova
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 14 2007, 11:32 PM)
In the core of Earth Shan was placed by Creator God Aton a brilliant crystal, when he created Earth Shan. Our planet was to be the "seed planet" for the entire Nebadon Universe. From the energy of this crystal all of the Nebadon Universe was created. Because this is so, Earth Shan is the oldest planet in our universe, and because it was the first planet it was also designated as the "supply planet" for this sector of the Nebadon Universe.

There is a civilization of people living in the center of the Earth. The civilization is known as ‘Agartha’. This might be hard to believe, I know it was difficult for me at first. However, I now have absolute knowledge of the truth of it.

In January 1956, Admiral Byrd led an expedition to the South Pole. On that expedition he and his crew penetrated two thousand three hundred miles into the center of the Earth. Admiral Byrd states that the North and South Poles are only two of the many openings into the center of the Earth. Admiral Byrd also states that the inner Earth has it’s own sun. Byrd’s theory is that the poles of the Earth are concave, rather than convex, and ships and planes can actually sail or fly right in.

I can’t help thinking about Jules Verne’s famous science ‘fiction’ book, ‘Journey To The Center Of The Earth’ [Joshua Stone, 1995]. The American press announced Admiral Byrd’s discovery, but it was immediately suppressed by our good friends, the secret government. Ray palmer, the editor of the magazine ‘Flying Saucer’, published a detailed [21] story about Admiral Byrd’s discoveries. The United States government bought, stole, or destroyed almost every copy and then destroyed the plates at the printing office. I have been told exactly the same thing happened to an article about Admiral Byrd’s discovery published by ‘National Geographic’. The magazine was released, and the U.S. government gobbled up almost every issue. If the story was not true, why would the government be so nervous?

It is interesting to note that the United States government does not allow planes to fly over the poles. All flights are directed to go around the poles, and any airline pilot flying in those areas will confirm this. Another interesting point is that icebergs are composed of fresh water, not salt water. It is also curious that it is warmer nearer the poles than it is six hundred to one thousand miles away from them. The opening at the poles might also explain why there are so many UFO sightings in those areas. In his book ‘The Hollow Earth’, Dr. Raymond Bernard tells of a man who has conformed Admiral Byrd’s story.

There are over one hundred subterranean colonies underneath the Earth, all but one of them quite close to the surface. These underground cities have been referred to as the ‘Agartha Network’. Their customs vary, but they follow a common, spiritually oriented structure of living - the Melchizedek teachings. The average population of these cities is five hundred thousand, but Telos, beneath Mt. Shasta, has over 1.5 million inhabitants. A second colony of approximately the same size is located beneath the Matto Grosso Plains of Brazil. This Atlantean outpost is called Posid. Although Atlantis and Lemuria have become myth to most people on the surface of the Earth, in reality they are just continuing their evolution underground.

The Melchizedek are an ancient priesthood that disseminates the teachings of the ‘Great White Brotherhood’ throughout the universe.

I d like to believe that this civilization is the fabled Atlantis. There is a electromagnetic anomaly near lake Vostok, it may imply that something under glacier is engulfed by electromagnetic field.

A highly adavnced civilization may take a stance of creator and covert existence, by programming and monitoring civilizations and spreading spiritual awareness. It is nothing to fuzz about, our philosophy always goes in advance of scientific understanding.
Sunova
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Dec 15 2007, 06:39 PM)
You believe them to be the truth because you want to.
I'll give you one (more, because I've already given over a dozen in my last post) example of something that is illogical about your statement.
"Our evil government"
You keep describing and seeing the government as the evil enemy (and the black and white morality of that is itself, illogical) without ever stopping to think that maybe the government is not made of human clones, fanatically devoted to the suppression of truth. It is made up of the citizens of the United States, the very group you claim they are working against. That's incredibly illogical.Senators, Congressmen, Presidents, Advisers, Secretaries of various aspects, Intelligence analysts, intelligence asset handlers, undercover operatives, scientists, military personnel... They are JUST LIKE US!!!!! They ARE US!!!! They have families, differing wants and desires, morals (or the lack thereof) and so on and so forth....
Your belief that the government is some evil organization trying to maintain some sort of monopoly of knowledge over the people is akin to the old expression "cutting off the nose to spite the face."
It's the most illogical thing a person could believe about our government. It's actually MORE logical to think that the government has alien technologies stored away somewhere, than it is to think that they have any particular desire to suppress such a world-changing bit of knowledge as that which you present.


I hate to disagree with someone dispensing such advice to gnik, but the scientific method was devised with FACT in mind. Truth is subjective, fact is objective. Science has nothing to do with truth, only facts.

Actually our present society is not up to this grandiose truth, spiritually and materially. The people in position of guarding supposedly covert science or truth whatever that may pose serious impact on current society, they know when and how to reveal it to people. We are living in this era does not mean we are qualified to access all contemprary knowledge. Something can be older than us and also more significant than our imaginable future. The media creats an ambient of contemprary perception of technology, religion and the world which are objectively universal. but if take on an objective view on these mind shaping popular culture, they are just eleboration of old stories through more material possibilities. Therefore before we can actually participate more and more freely in information sharing and scientific improvement based on spiritual needs, we ar not going anywhere into future.

Science is based on evidence and mathematical reasoning, it forms a sphere of human wisdom in relation to universe as a whole. as well as other civilizations. And it must avoid being individual tool for power.That is why sometime truth is not important to be directly told and dangerous, if there no enough collective spiritual awareness to hold to. I know Atlantis still exists in Antarctica by heart and it is the way that this kind of truth is meant to be told by now.
mandible
QUOTE
Looks like someone needs a better tourist agent.


You get from life what you put in, maybe? - Or perhaps this is Britains latest weapon of mass destruction? rolleyes.gif



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Looks like someone needs a better tourist agent.


You get from life what you put in, maybe? - Or perhaps this is Britains latest weapon of mass destruction? rolleyes.gif



There is a electromagnetic anomaly near lake Vostok, it may imply that something under glacier is engulfed by electromagnetic field.


That would be a Russian land-fill site, then! (Or the last Chris De Burgh concert/test site?)




Hey, it's not steeped in 'mystery'.

There are levels of knowledge which people have attained in the past, and that others who have not attained it, have feared with their superstitions. It has been a political advantage to keep people superstitious, rather than let them have access to certain information which may be damaging in the 'wrong' hands. The problem with this, is that the power of greater knowledge has a psychological, and unforseen effect, which is at least as self-destructive, if not worse, because you now have access to dangerous material as well!

Because we are creatures of pattern-thinking, we like our 'safety' and 'comfort', see these as 'progress', then all of the traits used in getting to this 'point' are still considered valid, and are thus still being used, still with little regard to the unforseen and self-damaging effects of 'power'. It would not matter whose hands this power is in, it is simply the mis-management through sparse and only partial understanding of power, per se.

Learn and fear no more. EVERYONE! (And yes, of course, that includes me!)



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gnik_isrever
THANK YOU SUNOVA, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA! YOU MAKE ME PROUD IN A GOOD WAY. THANK YOU. You understand, it appears. YOURS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WITHIN YOU!

Mandible:

There is something I think you should know.

THOSE WHOM SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY GAIN NEITHER AND LOSE BOTH.

We are creatures of God Light, not programmed "pattern thinking". That is how we fail to recognize and utilize our WONDERFUL POWER WITHIN. This power could SAVE LIVES. I am talking about CURING POVERTY here, not just treating it. Would not YOU like to see that happen? Or are you content with suffering, disease, and limitation upon our Spiritual Unfoldment?

Thank you anyway for your response. At least you are responding. Thank you.
mandible
QUOTE
Mandible:

There is something I think you should know.

THOSE WHOM SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY GAIN NEITHER AND LOSE BOTH.



gnik_isrever:

There is something I think you should know.

I KNOW. I AM QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THE OVER-USE OF OTHER PEOPLES CLICHES.



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Mandible:

There is something I think you should know.

THOSE WHOM SACRIFICE LIBERTY FOR SECURITY GAIN NEITHER AND LOSE BOTH.



gnik_isrever:

There is something I think you should know.

I KNOW. I AM QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THE OVER-USE OF OTHER PEOPLES CLICHES.



We are creatures of God Light, not programmed "pattern thinking". That is how we fail to recognize and utilize our WONDERFUL POWER WITHIN. This power could SAVE LIVES. I am talking about CURING POVERTY here, not just treating it. Would not YOU like to see that happen? Or are you content with suffering, disease, and limitation upon our Spiritual Unfoldment?


Please, define this 'God Light', in a scientific way, so that the people you claim should be understanding this phenomenon, can. And please, who mentioned 'programmed'? That was actually YOU, wasn't it? That would be one of your popular misconceptions, based upon not actually knowing, but blindly following other peoples' cliches.

And then, be good enough if you will, to explain why all these thousands of years of 'god/s', religion has failed with its 'wonderful power', consistantly, to save lives or 'cure' poverty. In fact, maybe it could determine why the last century was, in fact, the bloodiest in terms of self-inflicted Human casualty on record? There are more 'Christians' than ever before, apparently, so why the increase in violence?

It is not as simple as 'picking a side of apparent 'good', and following like a lost sheep. It is the blindness in us all that limits our own understanding of the world, and thus how to 'cure' it of the very things WE inflict upon it. Do you not think that if it were so simple, the wizened folk of the past would have put all this damage to rest by now?

I'm guessing from your naivety about such things, that you are young and inexperienced in some worldly matters. That is not a problem, or a 'fault', but please have the common sense to realise that you are not the first person on Earth to be concerned, or want to do something to improve things. I think you will find that no matter how much bickering goes on here, we are all virtually agreed on doing something to improve the current state of affairs. It is the 'something' we are having ironing problems with...

If you REALLY want to do something...hey, DO SOMETHING REAL!



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gnik_isrever
I already have explained this God Light in one of my previous, and quite long posts. IT IS THE ONLY "THING" WHICH IS REAL. Look for my post, then read it. It was indeed explained in a scientific way with the REAL laws of Thermodynamics and such supporting it.

Yeah, you are correct, I brought in the "programmed" philosophy. That is what I assumed you meant. That we program our neuronets into specializations. We lose our child-like openness that way. We lose our liberty that way. That is what is meant by 'we should each find the child within us'.

Hey, you were the one thinking we need some sort of "security" in our thinking! So that is why I told you that statement. I am not saying it blindly. I am saying it for you to understand.

I AM HAPPY TO EXPLAIN WHY RELIGION IS EVIL! Thank you for the opportunity.

All religions around the world, including "NEW AGERS", have taken the TRUTH of THE SPIRIT OF GOD LIGHT and twisted it, added false things to it, or have omitted things from it which are VITAL to understanding this TRUTH. They have done this on purpose in order to keep us from having the power to change our world and our circumstances for the better, or for their own selfish greed for monetary gain. The Natural Laws of Balance which would guide our society PERFECTLY into ALL HARMONY and NO VIOLENCE have been twisted and some of the Laws omitted to get us to break them. That is why "religion" is evil.

The wizened people of the world gave the Truth of things just as I have, to awaken the people to take back their thought power for the betterment of mankind. There have always been people, however, thus-far, whom have rejected this Truth (kind of like what you seem to be attempting to do) and who have created those religions to denounce and the "science" we use today to dissinformation the public.

Simple? Sure. Can you convince anyone about it? NO WAY. They must open themselves to it and choose to live in the Light of Truth or they will choose not to change. The choice is not up to the messenger, but to the receiver of the message.

I REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT "SOMETHING" IS WHICH WILL HELP ALL OF US.
Do you deny the very thing you claim all are searching for? Do you deny the validity of that truth I present about GOD and the way NATURES PROCESSES TRULY WORK?

So be it. I care not. It is mine to present the truth, not to convince any ONE of it.
mandible
QUOTE
I already have explained this God Light in one of my previous, and quite long posts. IT IS THE ONLY "THING" WHICH IS REAL.


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
I already have explained this God Light in one of my previous, and quite long posts. IT IS THE ONLY "THING" WHICH IS REAL.


I AM HAPPY TO EXPLAIN WHY RELIGION IS EVIL!


So, explain why you think 'religion', or 'evil' exist at all, if the only thing that exists is 'God Light'... And please, don't go down the over-trodden road of 'unreal things can exist too'!


Or, join the parsonage of messiahs currently kacking their pants because there will soon be nothing left for them to follow...and they will have to start using their own minds, for an uncomfortable change.

The 'child within you' is the very thing that assumes such as 'programmed philosophy'.

A philosophic moral, that is Adult-based Reality, is the only way forwards. It is simply common sense, thus an act of evolutionary survival, to stop blindly destroying ourselves with false hopes and fears.



QUOTE
The wizened people of the world gave the Truth of things just as I have


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
The wizened people of the world gave the Truth of things just as I have


Can you convince anyone about it? NO WAY.


I wonder why they bothered, then? Come to think of it, if you 'know' this, why are YOU bothering? Trying to convince people with contradictions hasn't worked for anyone yet. - Perhaps they underestimate the power of the individual to deduce what is Real for themselves?


QUOTE
I REALLY KNOW WHAT THAT "SOMETHING" IS WHICH WILL HELP ALL OF US.


Well, guess what? SO DO I, AND SIX AND A HALF BILLION OTHER PEOPLE!


Here's some breaking news... Truth is sometimes quite dark as well! Avoiding this little fact makes us 'childish' so that we assume too much instead of finding out.



smile.gif
gnik_isrever
I told you why religion and evil exists! To cause us not to wake up to our true power. So that in the face of the worst the adversary can conjure up, WE SHALL LEARN TO STILL PREVAIL!

No, unreal things do not exist. That is why they are not real. Our adversary would have us believe otherwise. We create an illusion of separateness from all there really is, so that we can remember it! OVER AND OVER AGAIN! For Life to re-experience LEARNING ABOUT ITSELF, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, UNTIL WE SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Such as I am doing now. Enough is enough. I am done with this illusion of physicality. I choose to bring the Light of God Within me into my Life and Experience EVERY MOMENT.

Look up information about neurons in the brain and how they affect us and how we perceive our reality. There is a top story in Phyorg's home page about this very thing. When we learn to un-program ourselves from specializations of these neurons, we can perceive the Truth of Reality.

Philosophy and Morality have NOTHING to do with being an adult. A child can learn them. And yes, they are the only way forward, I would have to agree. Yes, false hopes are destroying us SUCH AS THE FALSE HOPE THAT OUR CURRENT SCIENCE IS CORRECT. Yes, FEAR destroys us, JUST AS THE FEAR TO ACCEPT NEW IDEAS DOES.

They "bothered" because, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, there ARE people who DO wake up to the Truth through their OWN CHOICE to do so. I am "bothering" so that I can present my brethren with the same opportunity to do so.

I will reiterate my position again for you, since you missed it the first time.
I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANYTHING. I leave THEM to CONVINCE THEMSELVES or to not. I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO WITH THE TRUTH I PRESENT FOR THAT WOULD HINDER ME IN MY MISSION TO PRESENT YOU WITH THE TRUTH.

Yes, the only way to know the truth is to "deduce" what is real for yourself. I call it DISCERNMENT BETWEEN THE TRUTH AND THE LIE. The ONLY WAY for ANY ONE to do this is to find communion with the Spirit of Life WITHIN.

The Truth is the shedding of "LIGHT" on subjects of information. In no way is any TRUTH "dark". There is, however, truth about people, and the things they do, whom and what IS DARK in that they stay away from the truth. To ignore that there are evil people in this world who would like VERY MUCH for us all to ignore them, is to allow them to gain power over us.

You use the word 'childish' like it is a bad thing! I say to you now, you may look towards the children of the world for the way and the light of the Kingdom of Heaven Within for they have not all been programmed to accept the LIE of the ADVERSARY yet. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHILDISH AND IMMATURITY. MATURITY COMES AS ONE LEARNS TO KEEP THEIR MIND OPEN LIKE THE MIND OF A CHILD.

SO BE IT AND SO IT IS.

Thank you for your post.
philip347
It was said, that the fabled city of A'garathie, was a city that had succumbed to intrinsic evil, placed at the south pole.
It is said that any surface person, even if this city is found, is forbidden to gain entry into the city, as the evil there, is catchy to humans.
H.P. Lovecraft and Steven King the author, were both said to possess some of the hidden knowledge about Agarathy.

Atlantis was said to have been sold out by its own hierarchy, near the end of its existence, and placed in the Atlantic.

Lemura, was said to be inhabited by a much older race, which had experimented with crystals as large as two story houses.

The sin of Atlantis, is that they would not stop making war on its neighbors, but was vanquished in a comet accident, which caused it to sink.

Allot of lore here.

I have a little trouble believing that Earth is the oldest planet in the universe; with all due respect.

Nice post by the o.p..
occidental
QUOTE (philip347+Dec 17 2007, 03:41 AM)
It was said, that the fabled city of A'garathie, was a city that had succumbed to intrinsic evil, placed at the south pole.
It is said that any surface person, even if this city is found, is forbidden to gain entry into the city, as the evil there, is catchy to humans.
H.P. Lovecraft and Steven King the author, were both said to possess some of the hidden knowledge about Agarathy.

Atlantis was said to have been sold out by its own hierarchy, near the end of its existence, and placed in the Atlantic.

Lemura, was said to be inhabited by a much older race, which had experimented with crystals as large as two story houses.

The sin of Atlantis, is that they would not stop making war on its neighbors, but was vanquished in a comet accident, which caused it to sink.

Allot of lore here.

I have a little trouble believing that Earth is the oldest planet in the universe; with all due respect.

Nice post by the o.p..

And I heard from a very knowledgable source that there are elves in middle earth. And wizards.
tikay
QUOTE (occidental+Dec 14 2007, 08:03 PM)
Ok, I know one of us will regret this, but could you clarify something here?



Could you provide a source for any of this?

SEDONA (Journal of Emergence) would be a source for this sort of channelled knowledge.

smile.gif
Why do planes avoid the poles....why was information banned by the gov?
tikay
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Dec 15 2007, 11:39 AM)
It is made up of the citizens of the United States, the very group you claim they are working against. That's incredibly illogical.Senators, Congressmen, Presidents, Advisers, Secretaries of various aspects, Intelligence analysts, intelligence asset handlers, undercover operatives, scientists, military personnel... They are JUST LIKE US!!!!! They ARE US!!!! They have families, differing wants and desires, morals (or the lack thereof) and so on and so forth....
Your belief that the government is some evil organization trying to maintain some sort of monopoly of knowledge over the people is akin to the old expression "cutting off the nose to spite the face."
It's the most illogical thing a person could believe about our government.

The arent evil, no they are US.
What they are practicing may be different than your average fellow though, may even be considered downright demonic by some average folks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT-d_eGN_co

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1U-Z-8mvJY
tikay
QUOTE (Sapo+Dec 15 2007, 04:37 PM)
I swear, there must be a colony of them. Let one of the misbegotten get to a 60% warn level, and sure as death, another crazy person comes shouting down the sidewalk.

There's something here that attracts them. laugh.gif

Certainly not afraid of a really bad attitude!
tongue.gif biggrin.gif laugh.gif
tikay
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 16 2007, 01:57 AM)
The tragedy of modern science is that it has already made this supreme discovery but is not aware of it. Because of the present-day misconception of the universe, fear has been created by man which leads to war and the preying of man upon man, and is the dominant note upon which our civilization has been constructed. When the day comes that fear leaves man and love enters, the age of slaughter of man by man will end and the age of character will begin. Deeper still than science, which should have discovered the God of Love (BALANCE), or religion, which created a god of fear and wrath, is the basic cause of man's self-made troubles-- and that is MAN, himself, who strayed from God's Natural Law at the dawn of Consciousness and has continued to do so to this very moment. Alexis Carrel was right in saying that all of man's institutions-- and these include government, industry, education and home relations-- were man-governed and out of balance with themselves and with each other and must, therefore, all be changed to obey the laws of Nature. This is why you must understand the law of rhythmic balanced interchange between all opposite pairs in Nature. When the day comes that this is so, a cohesive, unified and forever enduring civilization will emerge, resulting in the transcendency of man

~agreement~
smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (N O M+Dec 16 2007, 02:09 AM)
Hi Nick tongue.gif  I wondered when you would be back tongue.gif

Sorry Nick but this person is made of golden light, you are more like a silvery blue.
(I know this is not Nick). Everyone uses caps to embellish at times.

Thanks for your explaination here...
THE UNDIVIDED AND THE DIVIDED-MULTIPLIED UNIVERSE. This completes the wave cycle. The DIVIDED UNIVERSE accounts for but one swing of the cosmic pendulum. It does not account for its countless repetitions which have given you a universe which had no beginnings and has no endings.
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 16 2007, 05:56 PM)






Please, define this 'God Light', in a scientific way, so that the people you claim should be understanding this phenomenon, can.

mandible did you read this post?

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...ndpost&p=292116

((((amazing depth of reasoning))))
gnik_isrever
I have actually never heard of the Bohemian Grove! Can you believe that?

I do know that they are all Satanists, but I still had not heard this appalling story.

I THANK YOU DEARLY!!!! From my heart of hearts I appreciate and give honor and gratitude to your kind words and TRUTH about our EVIL GOVERNMENT!

It is good to know that there are other people "out there" that know the Light of God, and that still care about getting the truth out, so that maybe all the targets of the adversary can be helped. Yours is of a golden Light as WELL. *tear*

Bless you. I love your attitude~ laugh.gif
tikay
I read again and noted the Saint Germaine referance and found an amazing page that gave me further information I had not previously known about this entity...woah! I had read a book by him but this is even more excellant material.
Thank YOU! wink.gif
gnik_isrever
Oh, that is not nearly as good as reading from him himself!

If you would like to read many HUNDREDS of pages written EXACTLY how he wanted them to be, instead of channeling which leaves room for human error, then just go to fourwinds10.com and in the upper left go to Phoenix Archives, then the Journals, and contained therein he will be! One of my favorites is number SEVEN where you get to read messages from the Teachers of His Amythestine order of Ascended Masters.

Enjoy! May you always find the Truth you seek.
gnik_isrever
Oh, wait, you did say that you read a book "by" him, eh? *Grandpa Moment*
gnik_isrever
Oh, wait, you did say that you read a book "by" him, eh? *Grandpa Moment*

ohmy.gif
tikay
By and about him, "The teachings of Saint Germaine" I think it was...many moons ago, here is what i discovered tonight:

http://www.rubayat.net/AboutSG.html

hidden in this peculiar place!

http://www.rubayat.net/
mandible
QUOTE
I will reiterate my position again for you, since you missed it the first time.
I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANYTHING.



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif



That does it for me!

I got a couple of old rusty nails you can borrow, if you like?



smile.gif
Sunova
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 16 2007, 11:37 AM)

You get from life what you put in, maybe? - Or perhaps this is Britains latest weapon of mass destruction? rolleyes.gif





That would be a Russian land-fill site, then! (Or the last Chris De Burgh concert/test site?)




Hey, it's not steeped in 'mystery'.

There are levels of knowledge which people have attained in the past, and that others who have not attained it, have feared with their superstitions. It has been a political advantage to keep people superstitious, rather than let them have access to certain information which may be damaging in the 'wrong' hands. The problem with this, is that the power of greater knowledge has a psychological, and unforseen effect, which is at least as self-destructive, if not worse, because you now have access to dangerous material as well!

Because we are creatures of pattern-thinking, we like our 'safety' and 'comfort', see these as 'progress', then all of the traits used in getting to this 'point' are still considered valid, and are thus still being used, still with little regard to the unforseen and self-damaging effects of 'power'. It would not matter whose hands this power is in, it is simply the mis-management through sparse and only partial understanding of power, per se.

Learn and fear no more. EVERYONE! (And yes, of course, that includes me!)



smile.gif

Atlantis can be a hidden testamony to how awesome our potentials are if were just freed from suppression, from either religions and government. No wonder the rulers try hard to cover up.

To be honest we as civilians are not supposed to know if there is a real land-fill by russians in Antarctica. The continent is protected under international treaty. The electromagnetic anomaly is enormous, about 10 times than supposed maximum value. Electromagnitism is able to creat fantastic fields if you want. Not only antiradar BS, it is a force able to imitate spacetime fabric, therefore the anomaly is highly probably a kind of power to generate a specific field, such as optical invisibility, spacetime isolation, artificial gravity etc.Believe or not electromagnitism is more powerful than what scientists tell us.

Pattern thinking is the nature of humanity, nothing wrong with it.The only thing to do is to improve our patterns more and more beautiful and encompassing.
mandible
THIS WEEKS SPECIAL OFFER!!!!!!

ABSOLUTELY FREE!!!

YES, ABSOLUTELY FREE!!!

YOUR VERY OWN CROWN OF THORNS (slightly soiled - one size fits all) WITH EVERY NEW PURCHASE OF OUR LUXURY, BESPOKE, HAND-TAILORED CROSSES, MADE FROM THE VERY FINEST LEBANON CEDAR. (red wood, less chance of a stain!)

GET 'EM WHILE THEY'RE HOT!!!!!!!! (Or, was that the Alabama pine crosses? - I forget, now...)




(Offer ends april 1st 2008)


smile.gif
gnik_isrever
Tikay:

Thank you for providing that link. That is mostly true information, I can tell. Just remember this: he does not prefer to be labeled as SAINT because that signifies he is somehow ABOVE others, when in fact, we are all equal and he attempts to show us THAT.

I love that picture at the top!


Mandible:

That “does it” for you, huh? I assure you I have no use for rusty nails, thank you.


Sunova:

Ah…. Well put. That is pleasant. Thank you.


Mandible:

YOU JEST AT SOMETHING YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU DID NOT MAKE “JOKES” ABOUT THAT VERY REAL LESSON SANANDA LEARNED.

VERY RUDE!

YOURS SHALL BE THE PITS OF THE VIPERS. MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU, AS HAVE I, AND MAY YOU LEARN TO FORGIVE YOURSELF.
mandible
QUOTE
YOURS SHALL BE THE PITS OF THE VIPERS. MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU, AS HAVE I...



hehehe. You're a self-contradictory scream, aren't you?

You see? - I only have to mention the word 'schizophrenia', and you immediately jump to your own defence!!!


smile.gif

tikay
There is nothing wrong with a little schitzophrenia...it can be fun once all the deamons are busted as phoneys. I know a little about it....

What I think is happening is we are being wished away... and pushed away...off to be in some more meta-physical-psycological-place of our pick. In a way it does make sense too, except that we want the open minded to possibly get a few good ideas from us (well I do) and we want some answers too, and that the closed-minded to sort of leave us alone too.

Well I guess we are just gonna bump heads at times, if no one leaves and no one backs down...we are gonna be here. Passing along information we believe in, or have access to, that maybe some in science have never come across. Maybe some of it enlightening and even helpful. As long as we are not incredibly offensive, looks like we have a right to be here.

Nature is life, is science!

peace, t.k.
gnik_isrever
Mandible:

What do you think is self-contradictory about warning someone that they are being dragged down into the pits with the vipers, then showing them forgiveness?

I think that is quite logical and efficient, AND NICE.

What statements other than 'I am not schizophrenic' would defend the accusation that I am schizophrenic? You think I made some, hmm...? That is odd.
mandible
QUOTE
...and we want some answers too


You claim to want answers, and then refuse to listen when they are given!

One of the classic tests of genuineness is in regard to whether a reasonable sense of humour has been cultivated, or not. If you are looking for the humour in things, it surely shows a positive attitude to life? Perhaps the kind of attitude that truly has found something to be happy about? If, however, you are wont to dwell on the mundane, or are attempting to push some ego-based theory into the public domain, for personalised interest, you may actually miss the Lighter side of Truth altogether.

What do you think?


For instance, a randomly selected joke, posted by someone to alleviate possible tensions, could be misconstrued by another who is actively looking for little but the mundane, as some kind of 'accusation', which, for someone who claims to have 'seen the light' is a rather wasteful usage of such a potentially precious gift, I would think.


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
...and we want some answers too


You claim to want answers, and then refuse to listen when they are given!

One of the classic tests of genuineness is in regard to whether a reasonable sense of humour has been cultivated, or not. If you are looking for the humour in things, it surely shows a positive attitude to life? Perhaps the kind of attitude that truly has found something to be happy about? If, however, you are wont to dwell on the mundane, or are attempting to push some ego-based theory into the public domain, for personalised interest, you may actually miss the Lighter side of Truth altogether.

What do you think?


For instance, a randomly selected joke, posted by someone to alleviate possible tensions, could be misconstrued by another who is actively looking for little but the mundane, as some kind of 'accusation', which, for someone who claims to have 'seen the light' is a rather wasteful usage of such a potentially precious gift, I would think.



I will reiterate my position again for you, since you missed it the first time.
I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANYTHING.


Although I was able to find the humour in this, it has since become apparent that it was not posted with humourous intent.

It's quite painful, isn't it? It surely must be.

But be sure, 'I think that is quite logical and efficient, AND NICE', to point out this deficiency, so that people may improve themselves, thus avoiding further ridicule by far less scrupulous people than mySelf.

You don't have to get it, but it might be NICE, if you did?



Have fun!





smile.gif
gnik_isrever
I do not know where you got that first quote. I do not think it was me whom said it.

I do not want "answers"... but I want to present information to people, then clarify (not convince) the Truth of same.

I like that bit about humor. I think you are correct about that. People whom dwell on the mundane, or push ego-theories onto people, miss the Light side of Truth in doing so.

Humor is a divine quality. It is very good at bringing the Light to any situation.

What 'randomly selected joke' is there? Are you talking about when you said you only have to mention schizophrenia and I jump to my defense? How is that a joke? It sounds to me more like an accusation that I am schizophrenic, so I assure you I am not.

Or perhaps are talking about that bad joke related to crucifixion? Sorry, if you do, but I just do not support humor which indignifies a VERY IMPORTANT LESSON learned by someone.

And just what deficiency do you think I have? A deficiency in humor? Ha! HAHAHA! laugh.gif
mandible
Chew slowly, gnik, for the richest morsels may also give the greatest chance of indigestion...


[I've been waiting years to use that line!!! laugh.gif ]




smile.gif
gnik_isrever
O.K. ... .......
GooseThe
^^ To the reversi king

so if this truth is in everyone, I should be able to write out some simaler writings if I were to just "look" in myself? What if it comes out completly contradictory to everyhing you wrote? I also don't see how a singular, non-authoritative, most likely biased source is something you would like to base your whole world view on. I'm trying to wake up here but, unfortunatly, you're the one whose dreaming.
Gehn
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 17 2007, 10:50 PM)

YOURS SHALL BE THE PITS OF THE VIPERS.

So if I'm good and I refuse that excellent offer, do I get the Pit of Lovely Ladies?


- Gehn biggrin.gif
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 17 2007, 06:16 PM)

You claim to want answers, and then refuse to listen when they are given!

One of the classic tests of genuineness is in regard to whether a reasonable sense of humour has been cultivated, or not. If you are looking for the humour in things, it surely shows a positive attitude to life? Perhaps the kind of attitude that truly has found something to be happy about? If, however, you are wont to dwell on the mundane, or are attempting to push some ego-based theory into the public domain, for personalised interest, you may actually miss the Lighter side of Truth altogether.

What do you think?


For instance, a randomly selected joke, posted by someone to alleviate possible tensions, could be misconstrued by another who is actively looking for little but the mundane, as some kind of 'accusation', which, for someone who claims to have 'seen the light' is a rather wasteful usage of such a potentially precious gift, I would think.





Gee I really dont get any of this, can you elucidate your text in response to my statement that we want answers please?
All I find laughable at the moment is my confusion with what you wrote... biggrin.gif
tikay
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 17 2007, 06:42 PM)
I do not know where you got that first quote.  I do not think it was me whom said it.

I do not want "answers"... but I want to present information to people, then clarify (not convince) the Truth of same.


I knew that I should never speak for others...I apologise, It was me. smile.gif
Hmmm...that is the British variant of apologize...I also then, apologize!
mandible
QUOTE (tikay+Dec 18 2007, 09:27 PM)
Gee I really dont get any of this, can you elucidate your text in response to my statement that we want answers please?
All I find laughable at the moment is my confusion with what you wrote... biggrin.gif

Then, that is a good start, tikay!

All the answers you need are probably in your laughter.




smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 17 2007, 06:16 PM)

You claim to want answers, and then refuse to listen when they are given!

One of the classic tests of genuineness is in regard to whether a reasonable sense of humour has been cultivated, or not. If you are looking for the humour in things, it surely shows a positive attitude to life? Perhaps the kind of attitude that truly has found something to be happy about? If, however, you are wont to dwell on the mundane, or are attempting to push some ego-based theory into the public domain, for personalised interest, you may actually miss the Lighter side of Truth altogether.

What do you think?


For instance, a randomly selected joke, posted by someone to alleviate possible tensions, could be misconstrued by another who is actively looking for little but the mundane, as some kind of 'accusation', which, for someone who claims to have 'seen the light' is a rather wasteful usage of such a potentially precious gift, I would think.




Although I was able to find the humour in this, it has since become apparent that it was not posted with humourous intent.

It's quite painful, isn't it? It surely must be.

But be sure, 'I think that is quite logical and efficient, AND NICE', to point out this deficiency, so that people may improve themselves, thus avoiding further ridicule by far less scrupulous people than mySelf.

You don't have to get it, but it might be NICE, if you did?



Have fun!





smile.gif

You: You claim to want answers, and then refuse to listen when they are given!

Me:
What answers were given? I have refused nothing much here...I take, and take, and take it all in...who is refusing you any facts?

You:
One of the classic tests of genuineness is in regard to whether a reasonable sense of humour has been cultivated, or not. If you are looking for the humour in things, it surely shows a positive attitude to life? Perhaps the kind of attitude that truly has found something to be happy about? If, however, you are wont to dwell on the mundane, or are attempting to push some ego-based theory into the public domain, for personalised interest, you may actually miss the Lighter side of Truth altogether.

Me:
What are you talking about? And are you accusing us/me of being disingenuous...(of giving a false appearance of simple frankness) ? I am not sure what you are saying here.

You:
What do you think?

Me:
That what you just said was confusing as all get outl....did you try reading it again, so you might clarify it to me?

You:
For instance, a randomly selected joke, posted by someone to alleviate possible tensions, could be misconstrued by another who is actively looking for little but the mundane, as some kind of 'accusation', which, for someone who claims to have 'seen the light' is a rather wasteful usage of such a potentially precious gift, I would think.

Me:
Which joke was that? Geez I am lost. What gift are you presenting?



You:
Although I was able to find the humour in this, it has since become apparent that it was not posted with humourous intent.

It's quite painful, isn't it? It surely must be.


Me:
What the heck is painful?


I wont clarify further how confusing your post was for me....I think it was only a little funny that I found it so confusing.

Were you implying the gist of the thread was a huge joke?
It wasn't a joke obviously. People are different and hold different sorts of knowledge....

I think you will see where I got lost...at least.
okey dokey...answer if you like.

smile.gif
mandible
QUOTE
People are different and hold different sorts of knowledge....

I think you will see where I got lost...at least.
okey dokey...answer if you like.


You see it yourself.

I'm afraid that I cannot be made the scapegoat for your confusion.


I would imagine that with all these..
SAINTS
ASCENDED MASTERS
LIGHTS OF GOD

oh, and best not to forget the
PITS OF VIPERS, and the
EVIL GOVERNMENT, (which, I can only assume, are manifested for the sake of 'balance'?) ...you would have more than enough confusion to be going on with? And besides, is not a little schizophrenia ok, anymore?



There are answers everywhere, tikay. But, we must be truly motivated to find them, and REAL answers can only be found in Reality. Clear your mind of illusion, and not only will the confusion no longer exist, but there will be nothing but answers, wherever you look.



smile.gif
gnik_isrever
THE ONLY THING REAL IS THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WITHIN. ALL ELSE IS ILLUSION.

One cannot know ANYTHING, I repeat, ANYTHING with the five senses except the ILLUSION OF PHYSICALLY DENSE VIBRATION.

SPIRIT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
I AM SPIRIT, and so ARE YOU.
Unless, of course, you are not! (enLIGHTenment)(Lightening up)
mandible
QUOTE
One cannot know ANYTHING, I repeat, ANYTHING with the five senses except the ILLUSION OF PHYSICALLY DENSE VIBRATION.



Then you have permanently cut yourself off from further insight into anything else whatsoever. YOU have caused your OWN rift and division with Reality.

With this in mind, perhaps you could ask yourself what is the point in posting on illusory physics forums?

Your 'spirituality' means absolutely nothing, if you cannot put anything you learn from it into physical practice.



smile.gif
BigDumbWeirdo
QUOTE (gnik_isrever+Dec 18 2007, 08:56 PM)
THE ONLY THING REAL IS THE SPIRIT OF LIFE WITHIN. ALL ELSE IS ILLUSION.

One cannot know ANYTHING, I repeat, ANYTHING with the five senses except the ILLUSION OF PHYSICALLY DENSE VIBRATION.

SPIRIT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
I AM SPIRIT, and so ARE YOU.
Unless, of course, you are not! (enLIGHTenment)(Lightening up)

Prove it.
biggrin.gif
uaafanblog
I come to this forum to learn "stuff". What I read here is often over my head initially and causes me to read twice or three times. I have little to add since I'm ignorant (i.e.. uneducated) of many of the mechanisms used to describe our universe. However in this case I think I can provide a valuable service to the physics community by completely refuting this gnik_gibberish:

QUOTE
In the core of Earth Shan was placed by Creator God Aton a brilliant crystal, when he created Earth Shan. Our planet was to be the "seed planet" for the entire Nebadon Universe. From the energy of this crystal all of the Nebadon Universe was created. Because this is so, Earth Shan is the oldest planet in our universe, and because it was the first planet it was also designated as the "supply planet" for this sector of the Nebadon Universe.


First off my dear confused friend; the correct terminology is Earth_Shean (not Shan as you ridiculously suggest) and the "Creator God Aton" you reference is actually just the 3rd cousin (twice removed) nephew of the TRUE creator Niatpac Krik. If you'd gotten any of this right you'd have included the TRUTH that Niatpac Krik gave the "brilliant crystal" (which in TRUTH was not that brilliant -- i.e... < 10x3.68 lumens) to the lesser Aton as a result of a bet with Aton's pops over an issue that is simply too esoterically difficult to explain in words. In any case, Aton was supposed to use the crystal at show and tell in his 3rd grade, 2nd period "Spatial Multiverse Relativism Explained" class but he skipped that day because he already knew the difference between Yellow and Orange. Instead he snuck into his basement and created all physics as we know it when playing with what I can best describe as "Higher Dimensional Matches". An interaction between those "matches" and the crystal (which fell out of his back "pocket" -- it really wasn't a pocket in the sense that we understand ya know? ... but for simplification purposes it's a good metaphor). Anyway, up sprang the Universe we live in ... Aton got three weeks (again using our "weeks" as a metaphor since "creator weeks" are totally different) restriction for that mistake. Nebadon is a misnomer (something else you fail to realize or perhaps just didn't mention in order to further your silliness) as well as is describing our "area" of the this universe as a "sector". As the rest of us know it isn't a sector so much as a quadrant but that wouldn't suit your crazy fabrication would it?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
In the core of Earth Shan was placed by Creator God Aton a brilliant crystal, when he created Earth Shan. Our planet was to be the "seed planet" for the entire Nebadon Universe. From the energy of this crystal all of the Nebadon Universe was created. Because this is so, Earth Shan is the oldest planet in our universe, and because it was the first planet it was also designated as the "supply planet" for this sector of the Nebadon Universe.


First off my dear confused friend; the correct terminology is Earth_Shean (not Shan as you ridiculously suggest) and the "Creator God Aton" you reference is actually just the 3rd cousin (twice removed) nephew of the TRUE creator Niatpac Krik. If you'd gotten any of this right you'd have included the TRUTH that Niatpac Krik gave the "brilliant crystal" (which in TRUTH was not that brilliant -- i.e... < 10x3.68 lumens) to the lesser Aton as a result of a bet with Aton's pops over an issue that is simply too esoterically difficult to explain in words. In any case, Aton was supposed to use the crystal at show and tell in his 3rd grade, 2nd period "Spatial Multiverse Relativism Explained" class but he skipped that day because he already knew the difference between Yellow and Orange. Instead he snuck into his basement and created all physics as we know it when playing with what I can best describe as "Higher Dimensional Matches". An interaction between those "matches" and the crystal (which fell out of his back "pocket" -- it really wasn't a pocket in the sense that we understand ya know? ... but for simplification purposes it's a good metaphor). Anyway, up sprang the Universe we live in ... Aton got three weeks (again using our "weeks" as a metaphor since "creator weeks" are totally different) restriction for that mistake. Nebadon is a misnomer (something else you fail to realize or perhaps just didn't mention in order to further your silliness) as well as is describing our "area" of the this universe as a "sector". As the rest of us know it isn't a sector so much as a quadrant but that wouldn't suit your crazy fabrication would it?

There is a civilization of people living in the center of the Earth. The civilization is known as ‘Agartha’. This might be hard to believe, I know it was difficult for me at first. However, I now have absolute knowledge of the truth of it.


If you actually gotten the name of the civilization at the center (it's actually a little bit off-center but that's not important) of the Earth correct then I'd have to report you to the Galactic Overseer, (he's a close friend of mine ... note here that calling him a he is a bit specious but necessary in order to explain things to all you "little brains") but since you completely bungled it there really is no need. It's obvious you've never been there so you should just shut up about it and let those of us who are "from" there do the talking. It's like you're a Red Sox fan talking about the Yankees. Just no clue really. Stick to talking about the Red Sox and leave the Yankee descriptions to those of us that do know eh? I haven't quoted your ridiculous descriptions of what you're calling "Agartha" (again ... the name isn't even close but I can't tell everyone what it is 'cause I'd get into big trouble) but suffice to say they are soooooo far from accurate as to be laughable. You did get the part about the fresh water icebergs right though so congrats on that ONE BIT of TRUTH in your otherwise silly diatribe.

QUOTE
The Melchizedek are an ancient priesthood that disseminates the teachings of the ‘Great White Brotherhood’ throughout the universe.


I know the Melchiazedech (your spelling is atrocious), the Melchiazedech are friends of mine and you do a gloriously horrid disservice to describe their function as "disseminate the teachings". Their purpose is so far beyond that miniscule metric that you're really looking like a total boob here. I have reported your post to them though so you should be hearing from them very soon (actually you won't know you've heard from them but the rest of us will see the TRUTH when you respond to this notice that they've been notified) for the betterment of the universe. Quit upsetting the Nez Ihc that is so important to maintain gravitiy in this quadrant. If you keep up with all this you're likely to fly right off Aton's mistake into the Aether. You've been warned: My registration # with the Galactic Overseer must be published here in order to make my refutation valid however I have to admit that I left it under Mt. Shasta on my last visit there.
occidental
QUOTE (uaafanblog+Dec 19 2007, 02:25 PM)
I come to this forum to learn "stuff".  What I read here is often over my head initially and causes me to read twice or three times.  I have little to add since I'm ignorant (i.e.. uneducated) of many of the mechanisms used to describe our universe.  However in this case I think I can provide a valuable service to the physics community by completely refuting this gnik_gibberish:



First off my dear confused friend; the correct terminology is Earth_Shean (not Shan as you ridiculously suggest) and the "Creator God Aton" you reference is actually just the 3rd cousin (twice removed) nephew of the TRUE creator Niatpac Krik.  If you'd gotten any of this right you'd have included the TRUTH that Niatpac Krik gave the "brilliant crystal" (which in TRUTH was not that brilliant -- i.e... < 10x3.68 lumens) to the lesser Aton as a result of a bet with Aton's pops over an issue that is simply too esoterically difficult to explain in words.  In any case, Aton was supposed to use the crystal at show and tell in his 3rd grade, 2nd period "Spatial Multiverse Relativism Explained" class but he skipped that day because he already knew the difference between Yellow and Orange.  Instead he snuck into his basement and created all physics as we know it when playing with what I can best describe as "Higher Dimensional Matches".  An interaction between those "matches" and the crystal (which fell out of his back "pocket" -- it really wasn't a pocket in the sense that we understand ya know? ... but for simplification purposes it's a good metaphor).  Anyway, up sprang the Universe we live in ... Aton got three weeks (again using our "weeks" as a metaphor since "creator weeks" are totally different) restriction for that mistake.  Nebadon is a misnomer (something else you fail to realize or perhaps just didn't mention in order to further your silliness) as well as is describing our "area" of the this universe as a "sector".  As the rest of us know it isn't a sector so much as a quadrant but that wouldn't suit your crazy fabrication would it? 



If you actually gotten the name of the civilization at the center (it's actually a little bit off-center but that's not important) of the Earth correct then I'd have to report you to the Galactic Overseer, (he's a close friend of mine ... note here that calling him a he is a bit specious but necessary in order to explain things to all you "little brains") but since you completely bungled it there really is no need.  It's obvious you've never been there so you should just shut up about it and let those of us who are "from" there do the talking.  It's like you're a Red Sox fan talking about the Yankees.  Just no clue really.  Stick to talking about the Red Sox and leave the Yankee descriptions to those of us that do know eh?  I haven't quoted your ridiculous descriptions of what you're calling "Agartha" (again ... the name isn't even close but I can't tell everyone what it is 'cause I'd get into big trouble) but suffice to say they are soooooo far from accurate as to be laughable.  You did get the part about the fresh water icebergs right though so congrats on that ONE BIT of TRUTH in your otherwise silly diatribe.



I know the Melchiazedech (your spelling is atrocious), the Melchiazedech are friends of mine and you do a gloriously horrid disservice to describe their function as "disseminate the teachings".  Their purpose is so far beyond that miniscule metric that you're really looking like a total boob here.  I have reported your post to them though so you should be hearing from them very soon (actually you won't know you've heard from them but the rest of us will see the TRUTH when you respond to this notice that they've been notified) for the betterment of the universe.  Quit upsetting the Nez Ihc that is so important to maintain gravitiy in this quadrant.  If you keep up with all this you're likely to fly right off Aton's mistake into the Aether.  You've been warned:  My registration # with the Galactic Overseer must be published here in order to make my refutation valid however I have to admit that I left it under Mt. Shasta on my last visit there.

Now THAT is what Id call an appropriate response. The only thing that could possibly enhance it would be some colorful pictures, or maybe a nicely laid out diagram or two. uaafanblog, could I offer you a soda for your efforts?



user posted image.


uaafanblog
QUOTE (occidental+Dec 19 2007, 04:02 PM)
Now THAT is what Id call an appropriate response. The only thing that could possibly enhance it would be some colorful pictures, or maybe a nicely laid out diagram or two. uaafanblog, could I offer you a soda for your efforts?



user posted image.

How did you know that Root Beer was the "Nectar of Agartha"? You've been there haven't you? I can sense these things. Did you go via the North Pole route or the South Pole? I hear the traffic via the South Pole is really bad this time of year but I wouldn't know ... my proximity to the North Pole route makes it the simplest way.
Gehn
QUOTE (uaafanblog+Dec 19 2007, 02:25 PM)


First off my dear confused friend; the correct terminology is Earth_Shean (not Shan as you ridiculously suggest)


Are you mad?! It's Earth-Sheen. DUH.

QUOTE
and the "Creator God Aton" you reference is actually just the 3rd cousin (twice removed) nephew of the TRUE creator Niatpac Krik.


It's Zuul the Refrigerator God.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
and the "Creator God Aton" you reference is actually just the 3rd cousin (twice removed) nephew of the TRUE creator Niatpac Krik.


It's Zuul the Refrigerator God.

If you'd gotten any of this right you'd have included the TRUTH that Niatpac Krik gave the "brilliant crystal" (which in TRUTH was not that brilliant -- i.e... < 10x3.68 lumens) to the lesser Aton as a result of a bet with Aton's pops over an issue that is simply too esoterically difficult to explain in words.


The bet was actually whether Zuul could lick is elbow. Zuul lost.

QUOTE
In any case, Aton was supposed to use the crystal at show and tell in his 3rd grade, 2nd period "Spatial Multiverse Relativism Explained" class but he skipped that day because he already knew the difference between Yellow and Orange.  Instead he snuck into his basement and created all physics as we know it when playing with what I can best describe as "Higher Dimensional Matches".  An interaction between those "matches" and the crystal (which fell out of his back "pocket" -- it really wasn't a pocket in the sense that we understand ya know? ... but for simplification purposes it's a good metaphor).  Anyway, up sprang the Universe we live in ... Aton got three weeks (again using our "weeks" as a metaphor since "creator weeks" are totally different) restriction for that mistake.  Nebadon is a misnomer (something else you fail to realize or perhaps just didn't mention in order to further your silliness) as well as is describing our "area" of the this universe as a "sector".  As the rest of us know it isn't a sector so much as a quadrant but that wouldn't suit your crazy fabrication would it? 


Fool. The Earth was created when the Great Green Archelseizure (Who later changed his name to "Aton" sneezed it out. Some say that it came out the other end, but never mind.
QUOTE (->
QUOTE
In any case, Aton was supposed to use the crystal at show and tell in his 3rd grade, 2nd period "Spatial Multiverse Relativism Explained" class but he skipped that day because he already knew the difference between Yellow and Orange.  Instead he snuck into his basement and created all physics as we know it when playing with what I can best describe as "Higher Dimensional Matches".  An interaction between those "matches" and the crystal (which fell out of his back "pocket" -- it really wasn't a pocket in the sense that we understand ya know? ... but for simplification purposes it's a good metaphor).  Anyway, up sprang the Universe we live in ... Aton got three weeks (again using our "weeks" as a metaphor since "creator weeks" are totally different) restriction for that mistake.  Nebadon is a misnomer (something else you fail to realize or perhaps just didn't mention in order to further your silliness) as well as is describing our "area" of the this universe as a "sector".  As the rest of us know it isn't a sector so much as a quadrant but that wouldn't suit your crazy fabrication would it? 


Fool. The Earth was created when the Great Green Archelseizure (Who later changed his name to "Aton" sneezed it out. Some say that it came out the other end, but never mind.

If you actually gotten the name of the civilization at the center (it's actually a little bit off-center but that's not important) of the Earth correct then I'd have to report you to the Galactic Overseer, (he's a close friend of mine ... note here that calling him a he is a bit specious but necessary in order to explain things to all you "little brains")


I have his autograph tongue.gif .

QUOTE
but since you completely bungled it there really is no need.  It's obvious you've never been there so you should just shut up about it and let those of us who are "from" there do the talking.  It's like you're a Red Sox fan talking about the Yankees.  Just no clue really.  Stick to talking about the Red Sox and leave the Yankee descriptions to those of us that do know eh?  I haven't quoted your ridiculous descriptions of what you're calling "Agartha" (again ... the name isn't even close but I can't tell everyone what it is 'cause I'd get into big trouble) but suffice to say they are soooooo far from accurate as to be laughable.  You did get the part about the fresh water icebergs right though so congrats on that ONE BIT of TRUTH in your otherwise silly diatribe.


I'm a Red Sox fan, and I know perfectly well that the Yankees are mother****ers.

Your point is theirfore invalid.


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
but since you completely bungled it there really is no need.  It's obvious you've never been there so you should just shut up about it and let those of us who are "from" there do the talking.  It's like you're a Red Sox fan talking about the Yankees.  Just no clue really.  Stick to talking about the Red Sox and leave the Yankee descriptions to those of us that do know eh?  I haven't quoted your ridiculous descriptions of what you're calling "Agartha" (again ... the name isn't even close but I can't tell everyone what it is 'cause I'd get into big trouble) but suffice to say they are soooooo far from accurate as to be laughable.  You did get the part about the fresh water icebergs right though so congrats on that ONE BIT of TRUTH in your otherwise silly diatribe.


I'm a Red Sox fan, and I know perfectly well that the Yankees are mother****ers.

Your point is theirfore invalid.


  Quit upsetting the Nez Ihc that is so important to maintain gravitiy in this quadrant.  If you keep up with all this you're likely to fly right off Aton's mistake into the Aether.  You've been warned:  My registration # with the Galactic Overseer must be published here in order to make my refutation valid however I have to admit that I left it under Mt. Shasta on my last visit there.


Are you mad?

You have to leave your registration # with Tinky Winky, or it's unaccepted. You'll lose your gravity permit, and then you're in trouble.

So you're both nuts, and should be ejected from the Tellytubby EarthShan fan culb immediately. Learn some history before posting.

- Gehn biggrin.gif
tikay
You guys are so funny...you belong in the circus.

User posted image

occidental
Thanks!
User posted image
tikay
oooh la la...come ova later ? tongue.gif
N O M
So tikay. Your clown fetish isn't just rumour tongue.gif
tikay
I'm clearly on the cutting edge!

User posted image

Or just competative... laugh.gif
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 18 2007, 06:36 PM)

You see it yourself.

I'm afraid that I cannot be made the scapegoat for your confusion.


I would imagine that with all these..
SAINTS
ASCENDED MASTERS
LIGHTS OF GOD

oh, and best not to forget the
PITS OF VIPERS, and the
EVIL GOVERNMENT, (which, I can only assume, are manifested for the sake of 'balance'?) ...you would have more than enough confusion to be going on with? And besides, is not a little schizophrenia ok, anymore?



There are answers everywhere, tikay. But, we must be truly motivated to find them, and REAL answers can only be found in Reality. Clear your mind of illusion, and not only will the confusion no longer exist, but there will be nothing but answers, wherever you look.



smile.gif

Sorry mandible somehow i glanced over this and didn't really absorb it before.
I understand your sort of mentality and am not mad at you, most people think as you do and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a rational individual...
And YET...some of us were raised, sort of hand fed the more Esoteric Things we commonly want to share with others. We rather think they are good news, and not at all that strange, because we may have been brought up with these sorts of things spelled out as truths. At least I was led to question authority and investigate everything with an open mind and heart and to establish what we felt intrinsically to be truthful.

My friend gnik_iesrever is maybe someone who was raised like myself (unsure about this) with a selection of a different sort of truths all around. No one should be rude to us for having a different experience with/from life. No one should be angry with us for it.

The parents I was raised with were definitely hippies, and non-conformists.
It is hard to fall far from that tree, so to speak, though I do try to become a more objective observer and open to science...and others finding me laughable, my ideas anyway is nothing new and gets old, but I can take it...still I think my point is there is no need to be terribly unkind in this arena...the otherworldly is where some of us feel at home and channeled knowledge is not anything to laugh at without it's being investigated...we may not be able to prove that these things are a form of truth, but I would venture to guess that you were raised in a home that would never partake of this sort of information and so you have a disadvantage, or an advantage over us...whichever it is.

I have no hard feelings, and I hope you will better understand and make this connection.
Maybe we are victims of mis-information and maybe we are onto something that science will "stumble upon" and upon investigations, prove it to be a somewhat realistic viewpoint one day.

The thing for me is to be objectively open-minded...and yet, allow myself to be swayed by truth, whichever camp it comes from.


~peace~


mandible
Tikay,

You still have not absorbed. You are defending your 'stance'.

Instead of allowing yourself to be 'hand fed' 'esoteric things', I propose that you leave all and any of your old indoctrinations behind, and simply find out about Reality for yourself. This is an act of self-empowerment, so far from being an act of 'rudeness', which you still assume it to be, it is actually an act of extreme friendship! I can deduce from this, that your 'hippy' parents were not as 'hip' as they may have believed themselves to be! "The parents I was raised with were definitely hippies, and non-conformists." - So, they conformed to 'hippiness', then?


I hope for you to unlock your own cage!!

I'm so extremely sorry, that Truth is not always 'nice', or even 'good'. I did not invent the necessary 'rules' of Truth, so I choose not to beat myself up about it!! - I do, however, have to exist within it...

As for the 'rational' and the 'irrational', well, we are all Human, and I think the best we can achieve in this regard is maybe some Balance. 'Love' and 'Laughter' are also 'irrational', and I wouldn't give those up for anything!!

QUOTE
the otherworldly is where some of us feel at home and channeled knowledge is not anything to laugh at without it's being investigated


The 'otherworldly' does not exist, tikay. Some of us HAVE investigated, and found existence to be a whole thing. Therefore the 'other' is an illusion; a construct of the mind only, and probably a metaphor for 'that which is currently unknown'. (Hence the continued need to investigate, obviously...)


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
the otherworldly is where some of us feel at home and channeled knowledge is not anything to laugh at without it's being investigated


The 'otherworldly' does not exist, tikay. Some of us HAVE investigated, and found existence to be a whole thing. Therefore the 'other' is an illusion; a construct of the mind only, and probably a metaphor for 'that which is currently unknown'. (Hence the continued need to investigate, obviously...)


The thing for me is to be objectively open-minded...and yet, allow myself to be swayed by truth, whichever camp it comes from.


'BE', then...Learn how to 'know truth', and stop yourself being 'swayed'... You are the official 'decipherer' of all possible Truth, and it is all around you, all of the 'time'. You then have only to open your 'eyes'. Whichever ‘master’ you choose, it can never see Truth from your perspective, which is your True connection to the rest of existence.

"The times, they are a-changin'" ...but you and 'the times' are not separate things, and therefore you must 'constantly change' also. This is not a 'paradox', but a method of continued existence.



smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 20 2007, 05:54 AM)
I can deduce from this, that your 'hippy' parents were not as 'hip' as they may have believed themselves to be! "The parents I was raised with were definitely hippies, and non-conformists." - So, they conformed to 'hippiness', then?


I hope for you to unlock your own cage!!


Wow...do I appear to be caged? My thinking is not so caged!
I have the ability to decide that I can work in law for money...and became a freaking paralegal when I could have done massage or some more hip thing. I have little shame connected to stepping outside of the hippy cloud...or box.

But I have a free mind that no one tells how to work but me. That is the beauty of having a mind~soul~body connection, the freedom to pick and choose what we believe. I believe in some things I have heard from channelers because it seems what they share is very much possible...also it often gets confirmed as truth as years pass.

I also believe that Nostradamus had a penchant for predictions and many came to pass. He also used a flowery, sometimes vague flourish with language that allowed for some open untidiness, and some changeability. But that he was a seer and brought knowledge to light from unexpected thought paradigms...is a truth.
Then there are others today, we call them channelers and I believe some of them, sometimes.

I, myself. was channeling information on many occasions. I have hidden knowledge that is hard to explain in this world of today. It is not me who is caged, it is others who want to label me as 'mad" if I share what I know about the world we inhabit. Even I fall into the trap of saying I have been mad when I know it was much deeper a place than mere madness describes.

I try not to (any longer) cast these pearls of wisdom, I have gained at different times, before hecklers. Still, I know what I know, and no one can tell me I was tripping, was out of my mind, or whatever. Truth has it's own way of BEING to the person who hears it in these channeling situations.

Intuitively one may sense truth and lies right...do you ever experience it, intuit the truth from certain lies?

Science is made to prepare a hypothesis and test it, but the average man...
we are not made to test truth when it becomes obvious. We may test it and find we are wrong at times...one cannot always be right. But when we test it and we find we are correct...we know...we have a truth to keep or share.

My mom and step-father were hippy-type folks...whatever that means to someone who has not been a part of that tribe of people.

Hippy folks usually smoke a lot of marijuana and indulge in occasional use of other drugs for enhancing a broader reality, they may dress with more freedom and less care about fashion (except their own crazy fashion) than most people... and are usually into music over politics, love over money, peace over the land, they are not prejudice based on the color of skin, they may love to dance and sing, they may be very into or just not into talking about politics and government, they may make and wear jewelry made of beads, they may drive old jalopies, or live in older homes instead of worrying about presenting a successful image...they are usually into alternative energy systems and sustainability and you are more likely to find a health consciousness movement among them than other groups, many love keeping gardens and pets. Many try to make an impact on the world through writing or art. They are also very unconventional with the religious and with child rearing and sexuality. Many believe in the esoteric knowledge they have studied over the science of today. Many are more rational thinkers.

(my own made up, on the spot, definition)


I don't know how different your folks were if they were hippies...but obviously they didn't embrace hippyness?


Maybe they weren't hippies at all?

Tell me more about my cage?
mandible
Hi tikay,

QUOTE
Tell me more about my cage?


Firstly, are you genuinely interested?



In case the answer is yes...

All Humans have a certain amount of 'cage' attached to them. This is neither 'good' nor 'bad', 'right' or 'wrong'. It is just a fact. I recognise it in myself, as an unavoidable aspect of the 'thing' that I am! smile.gif

We build societies and 'cultures' to protect ourselves from the raw and unfriendly world of little comfort or safety. That would be the REAL world, where occasional nasty things happen regularly, but where extreme beauty is juxtaposed with extreme brutality. We want the former, but are non too keen on accepting the latter, even though they are inseparable, in Reality.

The kind of mind needed to develop this 'progress', in 'selecting' the 'choicest bits' for ourselves, is our kind of mind! - And the price, is an unconscious 'caging' effect, as we effectively 'lock out' more and more of the exterior Reality, in search of more comfort and safety. This is our current obsession.



Before depicting any 'truth' about 'hippies', perhaps we should recognise that such a group is subject to the gross generalisation process that all other groups are?

I have a feeling that a genuine 'Hippy', in the first instance, would not have ever called themselves such, as the term was originally a derogatory one, used as a kind of 'demonising' effect, which we commonly observe many restricted peoples' suffering. Thus, to associate with the name would be to 'play the man's game', which would, of course, defeat the whole objectivity of 'Turn on, tune in, drop out' philosophy.

As a 'for instance', the place name 'Lapland', is derived from a derogatory term for the original inhabitants, still erroneously referred to as 'Lapps', which actually means 'pocket', or 'patch'; the inference being that the 'savages' were too poor to wear 'decent' clothes, and had to 'patch' them up, thus offering themselves up for ridicule by the apparent 'superior' classes of the day (Swedish empire). By all means, if you are ever in the position of acquainting yourself with these lovely people (mostly, quite innocent reindeer herders), DO please refer to them as the 'Sami people', their own particular choice.


This propensity to belittle other peoples that do not 'fit in' with the dominant culture, is perpetuated by the subsequent 'followers' of the original, who insist on adopting the derogatory name as the real thing, and then proceeding to ritualise the superficial aspects, without delving into the deeper aspects that constitute the REAL thing.

Thus, a 'cage' is formed, or a superficial barrier to understanding the original, by 'believing' that you already know it, when, in fact, what is 'known' is the 'make-up', shall we say...

'Religion' operates in such a way. The make up, the ritual, and the gloss is mistaken for the original, and is thereby watered down into something far less than it could be. When the REAL 'clown' takes his make up off, he is quite a sad and pathetic shadow of what is possible. His 'make up' is his 'cage'.


In modern 'cultures', we are ALL 'clowns', all wear the 'make up' of our respective cultures, for we know little else. Our culture IS our 'cage', but please do not see that I am being derogatory about this. The 'cage' is just a fact. Like I said at the beginning, there is no 'good', 'bad', 'right', or 'wrong', there is only observance of what IS.

If you didn't know that you were bleeding, you wouldn't think of applying a plaster, would you?





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tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 21 2007, 04:23 PM)
Hi tikay,



Firstly, are you genuinely interested?



In case the answer is yes...


As a 'for instance', the place name 'Lapland', is derived from a derogatory term for the original inhabitants, still erroneously referred to as 'Lapps', which actually means 'pocket', or 'patch'; the inference being that the 'savages' were too poor to wear 'decent' clothes, and had to 'patch' them up, thus offering themselves up for ridicule by the apparent 'superior' classes of the day (Swedish empire). By all means, if you are ever in the position of acquainting yourself with these lovely people (mostly, quite innocent reindeer herders), DO please refer to them as the 'Sami people', their own particular choice.








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Maybe you have already read posts where I say I come from many various peoples, the Laplanders or Sami are one of my tribes. I also have ancesters from Norway, Sweden, Wales, England, Ireland, Scotland and I am also Dutch and possibly French... so I have been told.

My ancestral origins are a cage though I suppose. And not REAL, because the reality is i have not lived as they lived, I have lived as an American...only a bit of that line exists in my blood. I know something of these, the "reindeer people" and I feel that like queer, niggah, and slut...man begins to embrace the derogatory name to deflect the harm that was once attributed to it. Ever hear of a male slut...it is derogatory only to women and now women are calling themselves this.
For good reason.

Still ~ I hear what you are saying...but I think, you have missed posts of mine where I say I believe that whatever people believe in, in a sence IS REAL. They believe it and make it real for them...no one can take it from them without much work...a belief is a hard thing to counter. Like the debates among Christianity vs. Evolution, it gets very big, to try to dispel beliefs.

I should not have tried to define hippy, a far ranging thing that is in constant flux. But I think i was trying to make a point of the sort of people we were. We visited Stephen Gaskin's farm to see if we would go and live there, we eventually decided to move to a commune in Hawaii. We lived as out-casts. We were people who grew herb, smoked it and some in my family sold what was produced and in a way I worried they would be busted and be sent to jail, but it never happened., as we really expected them to get away with that, we believed it and it was true.
www.thefarm.org



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOdLEVU54o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT3U-IYob8E


And so as not to go on and on... are we saying the same dang thing here...in our own respective way...I think maybe we are.



mandible
QUOTE
And so as not to go on and on... are we saying the same dang thing here...in our own respective way...I think maybe we are.


Quite possibly, but are you now familiar with the superficial aspect, and that it does not represent the Depth of the original?

This is the very thing that happened to 'religion' during the 'renaissance period', as the superficial aspect became outdated and we had the slow birth of 'science', also the fledgling 'politics'. It can be observed that, at around this same time, the reaction of the two 'big' religions of Europe (christianity and Islam), was to become fragmented within themselves. 'Christianity' was splitting into many forms, re-writing a 'king james version' of its book, and Islam put a hold on its, at the time, far more advanced 'scientific' exploits. These 'exploits', then became the 'esoterica' you mentioned earlier. Again, this paragraph is an example of a very brief and superficial 'overview' to a much deeper subject, and it serves only a superficial purpose.

This is not just about individual 'groups', or 'tribes', but is an intrinsic way of thinking for Humans. An important aspect, because it helps us to explain how we blindly harm ourselves, and of course, our children, consequently, by watering down important, original findings, into the superficial.

When people only 'concentrate' on the superficial element (the 'face), of anything, they simply limit their own powers of understanding. And, as we all know, there are many exploiters of these shortcomings, many 'middle-men'. This aspect can be seen in everyday modern life, as we are all encouraged into this 'middle-manism', superficial way of thinking. People tend to have the superficial faces of things flashed before them, and proceed to think they know all about the given subject, relying on the work of the original 'expert', as a matter of 'blind faith'. This is not just 'religion', but the way in which the modern Human 'operates'. From here, he becomes an 'expert', because his 'face' depends on it.

We have gathered so much information, now, that it seems to be a necessary way of understanding it all, by just 'believing' in the superficial 'flashes' (we may even call these the 'subliminal flashes'), instead of delving into the depth of the original, which is, of course, where the Truth of things occurs.


This is why it is important to reach the same depth, but from your own perspective. They were then, You are now, and things are always changing.



smile.gif
tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 22 2007, 04:05 AM)

Quite possibly, but are you now familiar with the superficial aspect, and that it does not represent the Depth of the original?

This is the very thing that happened to 'religion' during the 'renaissance period', as the superficial aspect became outdated and we had the slow birth of 'science', also the fledgling 'politics'. It can be observed that, at around this same time, the reaction of the two 'big' religions of Europe (christianity and Islam), was to become fragmented within themselves. 'Christianity' was splitting into many forms, re-writing a 'king james version' of its book, and Islam put a hold on its, at the time, far more advanced 'scientific' exploits. These 'exploits', then became the 'esoterica' you mentioned earlier. Again, this paragraph is an example of a very brief and superficial 'overview' to a much deeper subject, and it serves only a superficial purpose.

This is not just about individual 'groups', or 'tribes', but is an intrinsic way of thinking for Humans. An important aspect, because it helps us to explain how we blindly harm ourselves, and of course, our children, consequently, by watering down important, original findings, into the superficial.

When people only 'concentrate' on the superficial element (the 'face), of anything, they simply limit their own powers of understanding. And, as we all know, there are many exploiters of these shortcomings, many 'middle-men'. This aspect can be seen in everyday modern life, as we are all encouraged into this 'middle-manism', superficial way of thinking. People tend to have the superficial faces of things flashed before them, and proceed to think they know all about the given subject, relying on the work of the original 'expert', as a matter of 'blind faith'. This is not just 'religion', but the way in which the modern Human 'operates'. From here, he becomes an 'expert', because his 'face' depends on it.

We have gathered so much information, now, that it seems to be a necessary way of understanding it all, by just 'believing' in the superficial 'flashes' (we may even call these the 'subliminal flashes'), instead of delving into the depth of the original, which is, of course, where the Truth of things occurs.


This is why it is important to reach the same depth, but from your own perspective. They were then, You are now, and things are always changing.



smile.gif

The superficial aspect of the esoteric...or of being in a cage or of hippy-ness?

I guess we really aren't saying the same thing after all. I think you have an idea that you can help me to be freed from a sort of "blinders on" type of thinking...a distorted kind of thinking as if I am coming from an image of what I am...I am not really impressed by those who label themselves, nor do I say (in my profile) I spring from a revolution that was the 60's and early 70's, to describe wholly who I am...but to demonstrate how I was raised which leads to who I have become because of that truth or that superficiality.

If truths become superficial then they have "lost their depth of meaning"...Yet if something is true, it is true for the time...for the duration of it's truth, true for one or for countless people a truth has it's place in time. Like when people thought that the earth was flat....that was a non-truth in reality, but for millions it was the truth and so it was their truth....no man could have changed their minds on it until it was widely recognized that it was a fallacy, and wrong, a belief but not a fact. In actuality...we know now that the Earth was never flat. But step outside your door and the Earth appears to be flat, still...we know that we are living on a ball..but it is so large that it is actually flat. So...who was wrong to be so right? The Earth is a ball which is often times flat...sometimes, rocky or hilly or mountainous or muddy & slippery...but we really never notice it's curvature, even when things get slippery...for we can get up without falling off the ball, except for our knowledge that it is curved, we still see the earth as flat but we now know intrinsically that we live on a sphere.


Now with that as analogy...you can know that besides being what I call a child of the 60's, I am in no way less open to truth... Maybe it is a truth/fact that we are in a quantum hologram of consciousness, and ultimately, where nothing is as it seems...Or a reality where the body is nearly only a vessel to take in nutrients that the brain may survive to evolve...

Thus ~ I am my brain, my soul and heart....all are one to me, and if I lose my ability to think I might have no heart connection, and I may have no soul connection, but they may still live without the mind...studies in what a coma really is have not spat out enough evidence to be sure about this.

Is the thread to the ethereal...In Huna the Aka cord, a thread to a world where there are creator beings, or One creator of man & nature...Or is my connection to life merely earthly and when we die are we just gone forever, food for the worms...our souls our minds disassembled?

The evidence on this has not been proved, either way. It is left W I D E Open. We choose what to believe there....why do we Choose? Why is that? Why has science not come up with the equivalent of the Earth is Round... and a planet! Why is this taking so long to decipher...the Otherworldly?
For one thing Science lives to take a superior attitude to things that they do not understand and calling them FALSE allows those in Science to keep FLAT (superstitious, mythical) associations to them...and think that people who know something in these widely misunderstood areas are just stupid and not worthy of their time or energy. it is wrong. Studies must be done...a wealth of information may unfold if (our) hypothesis were tested scientifically, in the areas that are most notably avoided.
Still Science claims objectivity and yet is vehement about things they are taught to avoid. No one even bothers to give any validation to things that are witnessed universally...across the whole of our earth... people see ghosts, and have visions, predictions, channeling's, leave the body, visit otherworldly places, parallel realities, and travel through time...they see things like elves and leprechauns, they believe in daemons and devils, they make supplication to Gods.
These things are not non-existent because Science poo poo's them as false. They live to these people, they are very REAL to the people who witness them, and that makes them real.

Science has now been turned asunder and they are the fools you see, if they dare not step forward in their studies and tap into the ESOTERIC realm, they are the ones who are afraid to find that they were wrong...they are decrying once again that the earth is FLAT! Some us know better...and we have had it proven to us in whatever manner, but what we know is that science is lagging in their presumptuous flatness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric


There is no answer for the ESOTERIC (defined in the wiki article above) BUT TO OPEN IT UP. It is the Pandora's box that science like to keep shut and with it's many reasonable locks placed, and the keys...quite lost!

SO...that said, I hate to say that so many I do admire are perhaps inferior, to an average fellow because they want to keep things shut up...they want to keep a flat realistic world view, and I can't abide it. They are scared to be wrong about things I think.

There, I have said it again Science...it's practitioners are scared of the truth! They are afraid that we will find value in what was called ridiculous for so long. They are cowardly lions who don't even have the courage to look at the face of the Wizard, to ask for what is true. Then I shall play Toto...the dog who ran to pull back the curtain and discover the MAN behind the curtain.

The MAN is the truth that all things of an esoteric manner do exist for those who live with them. And because we are told we are ignorant does not make a dis-believer of us..it merely makes us think that scientists are also quite ignorant, and afraid of the truth of the matter...that what was or is known was and is known...and what we saw, we saw...in reality !

(For instance) That UFO are real and goverment cover-up's are real too, not to mention corrupt and dangerous to them because they will be found out. Like watergate and it won't be pretty.

So having Man look to Man to discover what he knows to be true (the Earth IS ROUND) The paranormal is NORMAL...is REAL!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

This is a waiting game...and looks like we can keep waiting into infinity because what science ignores will never be proved wrong or right it will merely be a neglected area of in-expertise wont it?

peace~
t.k.
mandible
All things have superficial and deeper levels, tikay. Such are the benefits of existing in 3 dimensions!



I'm sorry, but you've lost me almost entirely now. Flat Earths, and normal 'paranormalness', etc...

I wish you the best with whatever endeavours you pursue, as i sense you are a kind soul.

Merry xmas!



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tikay
QUOTE (mandible+Dec 23 2007, 02:27 PM)
All things have superficial and deeper levels, tikay. Such are the benefits of existing in 3 dimensions!



I'm sorry, but you've lost me almost entirely now. Flat Earths, and normal 'paranormalness', etc...

I wish you the best with whatever endeavours you pursue, as i sense you are a kind soul.

Merry xmas!



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I bet gnik_iesrever would've understood it though. But it seems they are gone for good?

I am not kind, but once I was very much so. I am a more a multi-dimensional woman who has many moods, some are perhaps, kindred, while others are beastly.

Merry Christmas to you too... am I dismissed?

User posted image
occidental
Sorry tikay, I know you and gnik hit it off. Maybe he'll be back-its not like the mirror man ever let facts get in his way.
tikay
Well..if they don't come back, someone else will relate right behind them...
Hah~ i just noticed that at the top of this thread there is a Hippies advertisement.
That may be a first in here smile.gif



And in a flash! ~It is gone...replaced by a Kahuna advertisement...what a world!
tikay
QUOTE (tikay+Dec 21 2007, 09:12 PM)

Maybe you have already read posts where I say I come from many various peoples, the Laplanders or Sami are one of my tribes. I also have ancesters from Norway, Sweden, Wales, England, Ireland, Scotland and I am also Dutch and possibly French... so I have been told.


Oh! and we are German as well!
My maternal grandmothers people came to the Americas in 1725, I think it was, leaving out of Rotterdam...my mom has been doing some geneology research of late...
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