Ok, I've warned everyone that I engage in crankery from time to time. So without further ado, I shall espouse my own personal crank theory, defend it with bile and rhetoric from any who dare to point out my errors, ignore any evidence which contradicts my claims, and inform you all that I will soon be receiving a Nobel prize for my 'work', assuming one of you thieving bastards doesn't steal it and publish before me.
Well, okay... I'm not going to do most of that, but I am going to tell you all my own pet theory about the Lunar Effect. Feel free to debunk away, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just trying to start a new topic which can be twisted into yet another argument about whether cranks or skeptics are the more moral folk.
Ok, here's my 'theory'. Studies of the effects of the full moon on crime and accidents tend to be evenly divided between those which support the notion that the full moon makes weird things happen, and those which find no (or a negative) correlation between the two. Most skeptics take the position argued in the conclusion of those papers with negative results; namely that the very existence of the "The full moon makes crazy things happen," meme causes police and health care workers to unconsciously fall victim to the confirmation bias. They believe there's more accidents and crime on nights of a full moon, so they remember those criminal acts and accidents which occur on those nights better than those which occur on other night. They believe that the accidents and crimes which occur on those nights tend to be weirder, so their memories focus on the weird aspects of those events, while discounting or minimizing the weird aspects of events which take place on other nights.
I consider this extremely likely myself. I'm as close to fully convinced as I can be that confirmation bias and selective memory play a huge role in this common perception.
But to suggest that this idea explains the apparent Lunar Effect fully seems to be overreaching. My idea is this: This confirmation bias works not only on the police and health care workers in these cases, but on the criminals and patients, too. It's the same general principle: People believe that the full moon will make them act out, so they act out when they realize that there's a full moon out. Criminals get more brazen, partygoers get drunker, clumsy people get clumsier, crazy people get crazier and they all get a bit more whimsical.
So the end result if I'm right is that there is a small increase in the number of such incidents on full-moon nights, and that this small increase becomes a large increase in the minds of those most exposed to them.
Now, feel free to debunk, destroy, evince, counter-evince, complain, whine, hurl accusations of hypocrisy, homosexuality and immorality at me, whatever.
I'm most interested in the debunking tho... If anyone has a good link to blow my 'theory' away, feel free to share. If not, but you want to debunk anyways, I'll get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...21218_moon.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/820241.stm
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...08250070&Ref=AR
http://www.skepdic.com/refuge/bunk19.html
I've known lots of miscreants. I've associated with all too many of them closely. I'll confirm their awareness of full moon phobia; most every one I've known buy into it. Miscreants are typically very stupid folk. But because they believe the full moon myth, they generally tend to moderate their deviations out of fear versus it freeing their inhibitions. Even really dumb people who tend toward getting into trouble aren't actually looking for an excuse to get into trouble. If they're foolish enough to believe in "lunacy" they take it face value and try to behave. Those ones would tend to offset the ones you describe thus nulling the set.
Debunked and pwnd.
Debunked and pwnd.
QUOTE (uaafanblog+Nov 3 2009, 08:13 AM)
Debunked and pwnd.
Not to take away from your most excellent pwnage (I shall, of course, consider myself thoroughly pwned), but aren't a propensity for getting in trouble and a desire to stay out of trouble two mutually exclusive attributes?
I've never met the miscreant worthy of the title who would do anything to reduce his or her odds of getting into trouble, unless that trouble was nigh inevitable and of a flavor most unpalatable to the miscreant in question (such as slapping a cop for the fun of it), and even then, only sometimes.
Oh wait, did I respond reasonably? I'm sorry, please forgive me. What I meant to say was...
"YOU STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE NOT NOW WHAT LUNAR EFFECT IZ!!!!!11 I IS VERY MUCH SMARTER THAN STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE AND WIN NOBEL PRIZE FOR MY WORK!!11!! ONE DAY ALL SCIENCE IKNOHLEGE MY GREAT CUNTRIBUSHONS!!!!11!!1"
or...
"I bet you think you're so smart, sitting there on your high horse like you're the prince of the world. Well, you're not. You're just another BULLY who likes to use fowl language like "pwnd" to try to suppress my freedom of speech. Well, we'll see how smart you are when I sue you for libel, you hypoicritical jerk."
take your pick. I like to cover all my bases.
Not to take away from your most excellent pwnage (I shall, of course, consider myself thoroughly pwned), but aren't a propensity for getting in trouble and a desire to stay out of trouble two mutually exclusive attributes?
I've never met the miscreant worthy of the title who would do anything to reduce his or her odds of getting into trouble, unless that trouble was nigh inevitable and of a flavor most unpalatable to the miscreant in question (such as slapping a cop for the fun of it), and even then, only sometimes.
Oh wait, did I respond reasonably? I'm sorry, please forgive me. What I meant to say was...
"YOU STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE NOT NOW WHAT LUNAR EFFECT IZ!!!!!11 I IS VERY MUCH SMARTER THAN STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE AND WIN NOBEL PRIZE FOR MY WORK!!11!! ONE DAY ALL SCIENCE IKNOHLEGE MY GREAT CUNTRIBUSHONS!!!!11!!1"
or...
"I bet you think you're so smart, sitting there on your high horse like you're the prince of the world. Well, you're not. You're just another BULLY who likes to use fowl language like "pwnd" to try to suppress my freedom of speech. Well, we'll see how smart you are when I sue you for libel, you hypoicritical jerk."
take your pick. I like to cover all my bases.
My brother-in-law is an ER charge nurse. I'll ask him for some stats. 
In the meantime, I agree that the 'knowledge' of the effect can cause behavior changes, but there may be a simple and logical basis for the effect's hold on folks: Criminals can see better to perpetrate during the full moon, but can't see well enough to get away, so they crash cars and get into gunfights with the police...
From personal experience, however, crime is best done in pitch-darkness... You have to feeel it.
Speaking of which, has anyone heard from poor Robin, or has Canada served him wrongly again?
In the meantime, I agree that the 'knowledge' of the effect can cause behavior changes, but there may be a simple and logical basis for the effect's hold on folks: Criminals can see better to perpetrate during the full moon, but can't see well enough to get away, so they crash cars and get into gunfights with the police...
From personal experience, however, crime is best done in pitch-darkness... You have to feeel it.
Speaking of which, has anyone heard from poor Robin, or has Canada served him wrongly again?
Maybe you should also include people who start frothing at the mouth with irritation when the moon is full because they hate the crank idea that the full moon affects behavior.
What about the theory that more light at night causes more people to go out instead of staying inside? This would seem to be negated by the presence of street lights in places where wild behavior would occur.
What about the correlation between tide-strength and the body-moisture? This one seems like the farthest stretch, but maybe it causes just enough of a shift in osmotic cellular respiration in hormones, nerves, or other body systems to throw people's sense of stability a little off.
There, I gave your machine a few cranks of my own. Now what will it do?
What about the theory that more light at night causes more people to go out instead of staying inside? This would seem to be negated by the presence of street lights in places where wild behavior would occur.
What about the correlation between tide-strength and the body-moisture? This one seems like the farthest stretch, but maybe it causes just enough of a shift in osmotic cellular respiration in hormones, nerves, or other body systems to throw people's sense of stability a little off.
There, I gave your machine a few cranks of my own. Now what will it do?
Not bad.
An exception on your point #2, though:
Street lights are an 'avenue' that is always open. Moonlight provides a well-lit getaway for the 'perp' ...
An exception on your point #2, though:
QUOTE
What about the theory that more light at night causes more people to go out instead of staying inside? This would seem to be negated by the presence of street lights in places where wild behavior would occur.
Street lights are an 'avenue' that is always open. Moonlight provides a well-lit getaway for the 'perp' ...
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Nov 3 2009, 04:17 PM)
What about the correlation between tide-strength and the body-moisture? This one seems like the farthest stretch, but maybe it causes just enough of a shift in osmotic cellular respiration in hormones, nerves, or other body systems to throw people's sense of stability a little off.
The moon's gravitational effect on you during high tide is approximately the same as that of a mosquito landing on your skin.
It only effects the tide because the oceans, seas and large bodies of fresh water are so large.
The moon's gravitational effect on you during high tide is approximately the same as that of a mosquito landing on your skin.
It only effects the tide because the oceans, seas and large bodies of fresh water are so large.
B. Finger, B. Kane, B. Wayne. "Criminals -- a superstitious and cowardly lot." Det. Com. 1:33 (November, 1939).
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 4 2009, 01:03 AM)
The moon's gravitational effect on you during high tide is approximately the same as that of a mosquito landing on your skin.
It only effects the tide because the oceans, seas and large bodies of fresh water are so large.
What about the fact that the effect is on each cell in your body, as well as all your blood and neural fluid? That's a lot of mosquitos working together simultaneously and constantly.
Actually, I'm sure you're probably right that it's negligible, but what would really debunk the theory is what the difference is between gravitational effect on tides during a full moon versus any other phase of the moon.
Is there any difference it tides? It seems like there shouldn't since lunar fullness only has to do with how much of the illuminated surface is visible. On the other hand, the full illuminated surface can only be visible when the moon is opposite the sun, so would that have some kind of gravitational alignment effect, however small?
It seems like perigee/apogee would be more relevant in terms of gravity effects. I wonder if these somehow correspond with the moon phases with some kind of regularity. The must since they are non-random sequences. Could apogee/perigee full moons have an even greater moonlight-madness effect than full moons alone?
Actually, I think my post may be a product of moonlight madness. Better go check out the window. Oh no, I'm growing hair everywhere and howling!
It only effects the tide because the oceans, seas and large bodies of fresh water are so large.
What about the fact that the effect is on each cell in your body, as well as all your blood and neural fluid? That's a lot of mosquitos working together simultaneously and constantly.
Actually, I'm sure you're probably right that it's negligible, but what would really debunk the theory is what the difference is between gravitational effect on tides during a full moon versus any other phase of the moon.
Is there any difference it tides? It seems like there shouldn't since lunar fullness only has to do with how much of the illuminated surface is visible. On the other hand, the full illuminated surface can only be visible when the moon is opposite the sun, so would that have some kind of gravitational alignment effect, however small?
It seems like perigee/apogee would be more relevant in terms of gravity effects. I wonder if these somehow correspond with the moon phases with some kind of regularity. The must since they are non-random sequences. Could apogee/perigee full moons have an even greater moonlight-madness effect than full moons alone?
Actually, I think my post may be a product of moonlight madness. Better go check out the window. Oh no, I'm growing hair everywhere and howling!
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Nov 3 2009, 09:26 PM)
What about the fact that the effect is on each cell in your body, as well as all your blood and neural fluid? That's a lot of mosquitos working together simultaneously and constantly.
Now you're being a dipshit.
It's still only equivalent to one mosquito. The gravitational force an object experiences is based on it's own mass, as well as the strength of the gravitational field. The average person weighs about the same as 21 gallons of water, and almost every natural body of water is many (many, many, many) times this.
Now you're being a dipshit.
It's still only equivalent to one mosquito. The gravitational force an object experiences is based on it's own mass, as well as the strength of the gravitational field. The average person weighs about the same as 21 gallons of water, and almost every natural body of water is many (many, many, many) times this.
QUOTE
Actually, I'm sure you're probably right that it's negligible, but what would really debunk the theory is what the difference is between gravitational effect on tides during a full moon versus any other phase of the moon.
A mosquito on your skin vs. a mosquito hovering nearby. Try to think about what is being said to you before you respond to it.QUOTE
What about the fact that the effect is on each cell in your body, as well as all your blood and neural fluid? That's a lot of mosquitoes working together simultaneously and constantly.
While that may be a lot of mosquitoes, it is a condition (the monthly variation in the direction of Luna gravitational attraction ) which has been a constant factor during the evolution of all life on earth . As such, it can be treated as a constant, rather than a variable.
OTOH, perhaps an increase in aggressive behavior on the part of human males once a month , coinciding with the high fertility periods of the human female, might be an evolutionary (reproductive) advantage. It has long been known that menstrual cycle is correlated to the moon's cycle.
Alexg beat me to it, but here is what i was going to post for laughs:
Its the women, they have thier 'full moon' cycle, which releases horromoans and we all go crazy.
Its the women, they have thier 'full moon' cycle, which releases horromoans and we all go crazy.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 4 2009, 03:28 AM)
Now you're being a dipshit.
It's still only equivalent to one mosquito. The gravitational force an object experiences is based on it's own mass, as well as the strength of the gravitational field. The average person weighs about the same as 21 gallons of water, and almost every natural body of water is many (many, many, many) times this.
A mosquito on your skin vs. a mosquito hovering nearby. Try to think about what is being said to you before you respond to it.
I had actually considered that what you meant only had to do with the mass of a single mosquito relative to the mass of the human body. I was just playing a little with the idea that the effect of a mosquito on your skin has less to do with the force it exerts as it does the effect it has on your nervous system. A crumb with the same mass does not effect you the same as a mosquito does, nor does it feel the same.
My point by mentioning every cell in your body had to do with the idea that gravity produces a tidal effect on the surface tension of any body of water, I assume, from an ocean to a lake to a glass of water to a living cell. If this is the case, then I was saying to consider that this very slight effect on a cell would affect every cell, including nerve cells, lymph cells, kidney/liver cells, blood cells and plasma, etc. The effect may still be negligible but I wanted to point out the the gravitational effect would be uniformly distributed.
Is this still a 'dipshit' point, iyo?
It's still only equivalent to one mosquito. The gravitational force an object experiences is based on it's own mass, as well as the strength of the gravitational field. The average person weighs about the same as 21 gallons of water, and almost every natural body of water is many (many, many, many) times this.
A mosquito on your skin vs. a mosquito hovering nearby. Try to think about what is being said to you before you respond to it.
I had actually considered that what you meant only had to do with the mass of a single mosquito relative to the mass of the human body. I was just playing a little with the idea that the effect of a mosquito on your skin has less to do with the force it exerts as it does the effect it has on your nervous system. A crumb with the same mass does not effect you the same as a mosquito does, nor does it feel the same.
My point by mentioning every cell in your body had to do with the idea that gravity produces a tidal effect on the surface tension of any body of water, I assume, from an ocean to a lake to a glass of water to a living cell. If this is the case, then I was saying to consider that this very slight effect on a cell would affect every cell, including nerve cells, lymph cells, kidney/liver cells, blood cells and plasma, etc. The effect may still be negligible but I wanted to point out the the gravitational effect would be uniformly distributed.
Is this still a 'dipshit' point, iyo?
QUOTE (light in the tunnel+Nov 4 2009, 12:09 PM)
A crumb with the same mass does not effect you the same as a mosquito does, nor does it feel the same.
Gravitationally, it sure does.
So the end result if I'm right is that there is a small increase in the number of such incidents on full-moon nights, and that this small increase becomes a large increase in the minds of those most exposed to them.
I read a book called The Ion Effect a long long time ago. The full moon leaves the atmosphere slightly more positively charged than a new moon does.
I forget the details but that is the summary of it.
The book had lots of "such stuff" in it.
I didn't take it seriously untill I read a little blurb in a science magazine about how your body "knows" it's cut. One was the the body has a natural negative charge, and cuts have postive one.
Suddendly the book made a bit more sense because the problems it claimed were caused by positive ions could be explained by congestion.
Basically...
If there was any kind of significant effect by the Moon, psychological or otherwise, it would be easy to chart.
However....
It is possible, even likely, that belief in the Lunar effect would affect some individuals. Therefore, we can expect that a number of individuals would react to the full Moon as predicted by their belief. On the other hand it seems that this is not statistically relevant.... ie there are not enough of those individuals to make a significant change to the crime statistics.
If you want I can also include a number of historical instances where the Moon does play a significant role in events, based on belief.
From Cecil Adams, "More of the Straight Dope"
(not a direct quote; a gist of his answer)
There are many individual police studies of this theory. Most show no correlation. Here's one from Miami Police:
From Cecil Adams, "More of the Straight Dope"
(not a direct quote; a gist of his answer)
There are many individual police studies of this theory. Most show no correlation. Here's one from Miami Police:
* There was no increase in crime on full moons, according to a statistical analysis by the Jacksonville Police Department. Five of the fifteen full moons had a higher than average rate of crime while ten full moons had a lower than average rate. The higher-than-average days were during warmer months.
* Statistical analysis of visits to Shands Hospital emergency room showed no full moon effect. Emergency room admissions consistently have more to do with the day of the week. [6]
And as been discovered, weather, not the moon, has a strong correlation - nothing better than a comfortable evening for many activities, moon or no, depending on the type of crime.
There has been some demonstrable correlation between the full moon and seizures, but even this was proven due to the fact of more light available; when researchers controlled all areal light, those correlations disappeared.
There are also people subconsciously adhering to the 'self-fulfilling prophecy' ruse, a self-made sham they unwittingly follow. But this sort of idiocy (unlike pie-in-the-sky politics) affects only a tiny fraction of 'us'.
Yes...
However, gravity gets stronger the closer you are to the object. Therefore you will be far more "gravitationally" affected by women with huge breasts than you would be by the Moon. It's basic ..uh... math. I think we should chart those FLUCTUATING gravitational ALIGNMENTS as well don't you?
How about...
Five blonds in a row... is that equal to a Galactic Cluster alignment? Maybe Rpenner can help us with the math in this.
QUOTE
My point by mentioning every cell in your body had to do with the idea that gravity produces a tidal effect on the surface tension of any body of water, I assume, from an ocean to a lake to a glass of water to a living cell. If this is the case, then I was saying to consider that this very slight effect on a cell would affect every cell, including nerve cells, lymph cells, kidney/liver cells, blood cells and plasma, etc. The effect may still be negligible but I wanted to point out the the gravitational effect would be uniformly distributed.
No, it wouldn't. It would be concentrated most highly in those cells closest to the mosquito.QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| My point by mentioning every cell in your body had to do with the idea that gravity produces a tidal effect on the surface tension of any body of water, I assume, from an ocean to a lake to a glass of water to a living cell. If this is the case, then I was saying to consider that this very slight effect on a cell would affect every cell, including nerve cells, lymph cells, kidney/liver cells, blood cells and plasma, etc. The effect may still be negligible but I wanted to point out the the gravitational effect would be uniformly distributed. |
No, it wouldn't. It would be concentrated most highly in those cells closest to the mosquito.
Is this still a 'dipshit' point, iyo?
Is this still a 'dipshit' point, iyo?
Yes. It changes nothing, and asserts only that which is untrue.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 3 2009, 04:13 AM)
So the end result if I'm right is that there is a small increase in the number of such incidents on full-moon nights, and that this small increase becomes a large increase in the minds of those most exposed to them.
I read a book called The Ion Effect a long long time ago. The full moon leaves the atmosphere slightly more positively charged than a new moon does.
I forget the details but that is the summary of it.
The book had lots of "such stuff" in it.
I didn't take it seriously untill I read a little blurb in a science magazine about how your body "knows" it's cut. One was the the body has a natural negative charge, and cuts have postive one.
Suddendly the book made a bit more sense because the problems it claimed were caused by positive ions could be explained by congestion.
QUOTE
On the other hand, the majority of scientific research seems to refute the theory of the lunar effect. Psychologist Ivan Kelly of the University of Saskatchewan (with James Rotton and Roger Culver) did a meta-analysis of thirty-seven studies that examined relationships between the moon's four phases and human behavior. The meta-analysis revealed no correlation. They also checked twenty-three studies that had claimed to show correlation, and nearly half of these contained at least one statistical error.[4] Kelly, Ronnie Martins, and Donald Saklofske evaluated twenty-one studies of births related to the phase of the moon and found no correlation. The scientific data "supports the view that there is no causal relationship between lunar phenomena and human behavior".[4] (Diefendorf 2007:113)
Basically...
If there was any kind of significant effect by the Moon, psychological or otherwise, it would be easy to chart.
However....
It is possible, even likely, that belief in the Lunar effect would affect some individuals. Therefore, we can expect that a number of individuals would react to the full Moon as predicted by their belief. On the other hand it seems that this is not statistically relevant.... ie there are not enough of those individuals to make a significant change to the crime statistics.
If you want I can also include a number of historical instances where the Moon does play a significant role in events, based on belief.
QUOTE
Scientists have looked for a correlation between phase of the Moon and such things as murders, violent crime, or births. In particular, many police officers or emergency room personnel have noted a seeming rise in activity in their line of work during full Moons. Scientific studies done to isolate this have, however, shown *no* correlation, contrary to the beliefs of those involved. In other words, the Moon's phase doesn't seem to have any affect on the number of crimes committed and babies born.
From Cecil Adams, "More of the Straight Dope"
(not a direct quote; a gist of his answer)
There are many individual police studies of this theory. Most show no correlation. Here's one from Miami Police:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Scientists have looked for a correlation between phase of the Moon and such things as murders, violent crime, or births. In particular, many police officers or emergency room personnel have noted a seeming rise in activity in their line of work during full Moons. Scientific studies done to isolate this have, however, shown *no* correlation, contrary to the beliefs of those involved. In other words, the Moon's phase doesn't seem to have any affect on the number of crimes committed and babies born. |
From Cecil Adams, "More of the Straight Dope"
(not a direct quote; a gist of his answer)
There are many individual police studies of this theory. Most show no correlation. Here's one from Miami Police:
* There was no increase in crime on full moons, according to a statistical analysis by the Jacksonville Police Department. Five of the fifteen full moons had a higher than average rate of crime while ten full moons had a lower than average rate. The higher-than-average days were during warmer months.
* Statistical analysis of visits to Shands Hospital emergency room showed no full moon effect. Emergency room admissions consistently have more to do with the day of the week. [6]
And as been discovered, weather, not the moon, has a strong correlation - nothing better than a comfortable evening for many activities, moon or no, depending on the type of crime.
There has been some demonstrable correlation between the full moon and seizures, but even this was proven due to the fact of more light available; when researchers controlled all areal light, those correlations disappeared.
There are also people subconsciously adhering to the 'self-fulfilling prophecy' ruse, a self-made sham they unwittingly follow. But this sort of idiocy (unlike pie-in-the-sky politics) affects only a tiny fraction of 'us'.
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Nov 4 2009, 05:53 PM)
... that belief in the Lunar effect would affect some individuals...
...historical instances where the Moon does play a significant role in events, based on belief...
Yes, it would seem the moon could be construed a psychologically intimidating large object. Even if only subliminally.
Physiologically too, in some minor way, as humans are MATTER and thus expected to be affected by ALL gravitational dynamics.
One should be able to correlate differentiating effects, when taking various FLUCTUATING gravitational ALIGNMENTS into full note(Earth/Lunar/Solar/Planetary/Galactic/Galactic Cluster alignments) with a cursory observation of astronomical charts.
...historical instances where the Moon does play a significant role in events, based on belief...
Yes, it would seem the moon could be construed a psychologically intimidating large object. Even if only subliminally.
Physiologically too, in some minor way, as humans are MATTER and thus expected to be affected by ALL gravitational dynamics.
One should be able to correlate differentiating effects, when taking various FLUCTUATING gravitational ALIGNMENTS into full note(Earth/Lunar/Solar/Planetary/Galactic/Galactic Cluster alignments) with a cursory observation of astronomical charts.
QUOTE
Physiologically too, in some minor way, as humans are MATTER and thus expected to be affected by ALL gravitational dynamics.
Yes...
However, gravity gets stronger the closer you are to the object. Therefore you will be far more "gravitationally" affected by women with huge breasts than you would be by the Moon. It's basic ..uh... math. I think we should chart those FLUCTUATING gravitational ALIGNMENTS as well don't you?
How about...
Five blonds in a row... is that equal to a Galactic Cluster alignment? Maybe Rpenner can help us with the math in this.
But the only mechanisms appear to be tidal forces, EM radiation and the solar wind, allowing calculation of influence of our lives which are completely trivial compared to the gross solar output.
If astrology is valid in theory, the practice of astrology is indistinguishable from trickery, flattery and deception.
"Studies have repeatedly failed to demonstrate statistically significant relationships between astrological predictions and operationally-defined outcomes." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology#Research
One of the main claims is that the heavens dictate one's outcome in life, but the heavens work as if by clockwork, therefore two individuals born at the same time should have similar outcomes in life. But this is not the case. "For example, when testing for cognitive, behavioral, physical and other variables, one study of 2000 astrological "time twins" born within minutes of each other did not show a celestial influence on human characteristics."
If astrology is valid in theory, the practice of astrology is indistinguishable from trickery, flattery and deception.
"Studies have repeatedly failed to demonstrate statistically significant relationships between astrological predictions and operationally-defined outcomes." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology#Research
One of the main claims is that the heavens dictate one's outcome in life, but the heavens work as if by clockwork, therefore two individuals born at the same time should have similar outcomes in life. But this is not the case. "For example, when testing for cognitive, behavioral, physical and other variables, one study of 2000 astrological "time twins" born within minutes of each other did not show a celestial influence on human characteristics."
QUOTE (rpenner+Nov 4 2009, 06:44 PM)
If astrology is valid in theory, the practice of astrology is indistinguishable from trickery, flattery and deception.
In the total BS vein of MP's OP ..... what if humanity is subject to gene-selective activation according to time of birth?
By this, certain aspects of the overall genetic compliment are 'fired up' cascading into the resultant mental and physical characteristics often associated with astrological beliefs.
i.e Aries types are supposedly afflicted with head problems, but make great soldiers. Aquarians: ditto weak ankles and are predisposed to eccentricity etc.
Other social species like Ants/Bees have chemical mechanisms to produce various differences in the selectivity, perhaps ours is somewhat more sophisticated?
Yours, with lashings of unproven BS, Dr Fred.
In the total BS vein of MP's OP ..... what if humanity is subject to gene-selective activation according to time of birth?
By this, certain aspects of the overall genetic compliment are 'fired up' cascading into the resultant mental and physical characteristics often associated with astrological beliefs.
i.e Aries types are supposedly afflicted with head problems, but make great soldiers. Aquarians: ditto weak ankles and are predisposed to eccentricity etc.
Other social species like Ants/Bees have chemical mechanisms to produce various differences in the selectivity, perhaps ours is somewhat more sophisticated?
Yours, with lashings of unproven BS, Dr Fred.
light in the tunnel: I apologize for saying you were being a dipshit.
It came across (and was intended at the time) in a accusatory manner, when I had clearly stated in the OP that this thread was about crankery. I simply got caught up in my usual habit of responding to crankery with skepticism, and temporarily forgot that this thread was created as an outlet for humorous mocking of cranks. Feel free to continue speculating wildly.
It came across (and was intended at the time) in a accusatory manner, when I had clearly stated in the OP that this thread was about crankery. I simply got caught up in my usual habit of responding to crankery with skepticism, and temporarily forgot that this thread was created as an outlet for humorous mocking of cranks. Feel free to continue speculating wildly.
QUOTE (rpenner+)
If astrology is valid in theory, the practice of astrology is indistinguishable from trickery, flattery and deception.
Yeah, well how do you account for the fact that you're completely and utterly wrong, eh? You just FAIL to offer any realistic alternative to what I've said, no matter how hard you try.
(How's my impersonation of NoPeDaLs? Convincing?)
(How's my impersonation of NoPeDaLs? Convincing?)
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 4 2009, 05:36 PM)
Gravitationally, it sure does.
No, it wouldn't. It would be concentrated most highly in those cells closest to the mosquito.
Yes. It changes nothing, and asserts only that which is untrue.
I guess you're right that the difference between the mosquito and the crumb is psychological, but either one still pushes on a few skin cells, which absorb some of the energy and pass it through to other cells, etc. until the effect is insulated from the rest of your cells.
The gravitational effect of the moon would be the effect of the mosquito if it could be evenly distributed to all the cells of your body equally, wouldn't it? Whether this would have any effect on the functioning of any of those cells is another question.
No, it wouldn't. It would be concentrated most highly in those cells closest to the mosquito.
Yes. It changes nothing, and asserts only that which is untrue.
I guess you're right that the difference between the mosquito and the crumb is psychological, but either one still pushes on a few skin cells, which absorb some of the energy and pass it through to other cells, etc. until the effect is insulated from the rest of your cells.
The gravitational effect of the moon would be the effect of the mosquito if it could be evenly distributed to all the cells of your body equally, wouldn't it? Whether this would have any effect on the functioning of any of those cells is another question.
QUOTE (keith*+Nov 4 2009, 06:28 PM)
Yes, it would seem the moon could be construed a psychologically intimidating large object. Even if only subliminally.
I hadn't thought about the psychology of the moon itself. Maybe the full moon resembles more the sun, which causes a conflation of polar opposite concepts like sun/moon, day/night, etc. This could result in an upset in the larger psychologically stability rooted in clear dichotomous distinctions. The psychological effect of a full-moon could then be compared to the effect of a man in drag, bearded lady, or other identity-mixtures. By being a "black president" the perception of Obama as a contradiction in terms of habitual racial-expectations that the president of the US is normally white could be causing the same effect as a full moon.
I hadn't thought about the psychology of the moon itself. Maybe the full moon resembles more the sun, which causes a conflation of polar opposite concepts like sun/moon, day/night, etc. This could result in an upset in the larger psychologically stability rooted in clear dichotomous distinctions. The psychological effect of a full-moon could then be compared to the effect of a man in drag, bearded lady, or other identity-mixtures. By being a "black president" the perception of Obama as a contradiction in terms of habitual racial-expectations that the president of the US is normally white could be causing the same effect as a full moon.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 4 2009, 08:06 PM)
light in the tunnel: I apologize for saying you were being a dipshit.
It came across (and was intended at the time) in a accusatory manner, when I had clearly stated in the OP that this thread was about crankery. I simply got caught up in my usual habit of responding to crankery with skepticism, and temporarily forgot that this thread was created as an outlet for humorous mocking of cranks. Feel free to continue speculating wildly.
Thanks. I do love to crank and crank away. I regard with skepticism the tentative turds that pop out of the machine as I keep cranking. I actually appreciate the skepticism and debunking by others in the forums, but I try to defend my work as far as possible in critical skepticism of the critique. I figure that somehow through this process my brain inches closer to valid positive knowledge. Thanks for the apology, though. It's nice to get a little love along with all the less than loving comments I receive
It came across (and was intended at the time) in a accusatory manner, when I had clearly stated in the OP that this thread was about crankery. I simply got caught up in my usual habit of responding to crankery with skepticism, and temporarily forgot that this thread was created as an outlet for humorous mocking of cranks. Feel free to continue speculating wildly.
Thanks. I do love to crank and crank away. I regard with skepticism the tentative turds that pop out of the machine as I keep cranking. I actually appreciate the skepticism and debunking by others in the forums, but I try to defend my work as far as possible in critical skepticism of the critique. I figure that somehow through this process my brain inches closer to valid positive knowledge. Thanks for the apology, though. It's nice to get a little love along with all the less than loving comments I receive
QUOTE (buttershug+Nov 4 2009, 05:37 PM)
I read a book called The Ion Effect a long long time ago. The full moon leaves the atmosphere slightly more positively charged than a new moon does.
I forget the details but that is the summary of it.
.
Yes, I think there have been reports of greater positive ions at full moon...
this report links it to positive ions triggering serotonin levels in the brain.
http://www.policeops.com/full-moon-ion-effect.htm
I guess its possible....
Even implies the Israeli army may be developing positive ion weapons to disorient the eneemy...
"The Israeli Army considers the Sharav wind (high in positive ion concentrations) a natural enemy of an efficient fighting force. They even have a term for this reaction called "Bedouinism" which means the soldiers cease to be alert, or effective fighters during the wind. "
Take that you Hamas Terrorists...just try to come at us with berka bombs and we will blast you with positive ions...
Of course, I've already got the perfect anti-positive ion weapon....The negative ion Gun, which we will sell to all islamic terrorists this month for the low low price of only $250,000 each (in American dollars), Visa and Mastercard accepted with proof of identity,
...and if you call within the next 15 minutes we'll throw in 2 anti-lunar positive ion annihilators absolutely FREE..(guaranteed delivery by the next full moon).
Lunar (no I don't go crazy at full moon)
I forget the details but that is the summary of it.
.
Yes, I think there have been reports of greater positive ions at full moon...
this report links it to positive ions triggering serotonin levels in the brain.
http://www.policeops.com/full-moon-ion-effect.htm
I guess its possible....
Even implies the Israeli army may be developing positive ion weapons to disorient the eneemy...
"The Israeli Army considers the Sharav wind (high in positive ion concentrations) a natural enemy of an efficient fighting force. They even have a term for this reaction called "Bedouinism" which means the soldiers cease to be alert, or effective fighters during the wind. "
Take that you Hamas Terrorists...just try to come at us with berka bombs and we will blast you with positive ions...
Of course, I've already got the perfect anti-positive ion weapon....The negative ion Gun, which we will sell to all islamic terrorists this month for the low low price of only $250,000 each (in American dollars), Visa and Mastercard accepted with proof of identity,
...and if you call within the next 15 minutes we'll throw in 2 anti-lunar positive ion annihilators absolutely FREE..(guaranteed delivery by the next full moon).
Lunar (no I don't go crazy at full moon)
I have a theory...
This theory, which is mine.. is mine.
This is my theory.. ahem.. did I mention that it's my theory? Yes.. here we go...
All Brontosaurus's were smaller at one end, much larger in the middle and smaller again at the other end.
That is my theory... it's mine... therefore it's my theory.
PS ... I stole the theory.
bonus cookies to the first person to figure out where I stole it from.
This theory, which is mine.. is mine.
This is my theory.. ahem.. did I mention that it's my theory? Yes.. here we go...
All Brontosaurus's were smaller at one end, much larger in the middle and smaller again at the other end.
That is my theory... it's mine... therefore it's my theory.
PS ... I stole the theory.
bonus cookies to the first person to figure out where I stole it from.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Nov 3 2009, 08:13 PM)
Not to take away from your most excellent pwnage (I shall, of course, consider myself thoroughly pwned),
A well-advised course of action considering my absolute and ongoing mastery of everyone foolish enough to counter the (always insightful, never arguable) truths I so graciously share in this venue.
Nah ... an historical propensity for getting busted induces the desire to behave. The dumbfucks I've known all lamented their rap sheets and professed a future along the straight and narrow yet in nearly every instance they repeated their history and ended up in front of "the man" again and again. As an aside to all that ... their experiences served as excellent examples for my own completely clean record .... (<------he said proudly as if never getting busted was somehow a great accomplishment).
Only the smallest percentage was able must the necessary character to avoid their self-defined fuckups. Naturally, I'm generalizing based on a relatively small sample. But my own past inability to completely avoid any association with these morons tends to in and of itself confirm my original counter-hypothesis.
Nah ... an historical propensity for getting busted induces the desire to behave. The dumbfucks I've known all lamented their rap sheets and professed a future along the straight and narrow yet in nearly every instance they repeated their history and ended up in front of "the man" again and again. As an aside to all that ... their experiences served as excellent examples for my own completely clean record .... (<------he said proudly as if never getting busted was somehow a great accomplishment).
Only the smallest percentage was able must the necessary character to avoid their self-defined fuckups. Naturally, I'm generalizing based on a relatively small sample. But my own past inability to completely avoid any association with these morons tends to in and of itself confirm my original counter-hypothesis.
Oh wait, did I respond reasonably? I'm sorry, please forgive me. What I meant to say was...
"YOU STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE NOT NOW WHAT LUNAR EFFECT IZ!!!!!11 I IS VERY MUCH SMARTER THAN STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE AND WIN NOBEL PRIZE FOR MY WORK!!11!! ONE DAY ALL SCIENCE IKNOHLEGE MY GREAT CUNTRIBUSHONS!!!!11!!1"
or...
"I bet you think you're so smart, sitting there on your high horse like you're the prince of the world. Well, you're not. You're just another BULLY who likes to use fowl language like "pwnd" to try to suppress my freedom of speech. Well, we'll see how smart you are when I sue you for libel, you hypoicritical jerk."
take your pick. I like to cover all my bases.
They both have a certain beauty to them. I'm afraid I'm at a loss to define my preference given the choices. Both styles are always entertaining to read.
A well-advised course of action considering my absolute and ongoing mastery of everyone foolish enough to counter the (always insightful, never arguable) truths I so graciously share in this venue.
QUOTE
but aren't a propensity for getting in trouble and a desire to stay out of trouble two mutually exclusive attributes? I've never met the miscreant worthy of the title who would do anything to reduce his or her odds of getting into trouble, unless that trouble was nigh inevitable and of a flavor most unpalatable to the miscreant in question (such as slapping a cop for the fun of it), and even then, only sometimes.
Nah ... an historical propensity for getting busted induces the desire to behave. The dumbfucks I've known all lamented their rap sheets and professed a future along the straight and narrow yet in nearly every instance they repeated their history and ended up in front of "the man" again and again. As an aside to all that ... their experiences served as excellent examples for my own completely clean record .... (<------he said proudly as if never getting busted was somehow a great accomplishment).
Only the smallest percentage was able must the necessary character to avoid their self-defined fuckups. Naturally, I'm generalizing based on a relatively small sample. But my own past inability to completely avoid any association with these morons tends to in and of itself confirm my original counter-hypothesis.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| but aren't a propensity for getting in trouble and a desire to stay out of trouble two mutually exclusive attributes? I've never met the miscreant worthy of the title who would do anything to reduce his or her odds of getting into trouble, unless that trouble was nigh inevitable and of a flavor most unpalatable to the miscreant in question (such as slapping a cop for the fun of it), and even then, only sometimes. |
Nah ... an historical propensity for getting busted induces the desire to behave. The dumbfucks I've known all lamented their rap sheets and professed a future along the straight and narrow yet in nearly every instance they repeated their history and ended up in front of "the man" again and again. As an aside to all that ... their experiences served as excellent examples for my own completely clean record .... (<------he said proudly as if never getting busted was somehow a great accomplishment).
Only the smallest percentage was able must the necessary character to avoid their self-defined fuckups. Naturally, I'm generalizing based on a relatively small sample. But my own past inability to completely avoid any association with these morons tends to in and of itself confirm my original counter-hypothesis.
Oh wait, did I respond reasonably? I'm sorry, please forgive me. What I meant to say was...
"YOU STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE NOT NOW WHAT LUNAR EFFECT IZ!!!!!11 I IS VERY MUCH SMARTER THAN STOOPID A-S-S-HOLE AND WIN NOBEL PRIZE FOR MY WORK!!11!! ONE DAY ALL SCIENCE IKNOHLEGE MY GREAT CUNTRIBUSHONS!!!!11!!1"
or...
"I bet you think you're so smart, sitting there on your high horse like you're the prince of the world. Well, you're not. You're just another BULLY who likes to use fowl language like "pwnd" to try to suppress my freedom of speech. Well, we'll see how smart you are when I sue you for libel, you hypoicritical jerk."
take your pick. I like to cover all my bases.
They both have a certain beauty to them. I'm afraid I'm at a loss to define my preference given the choices. Both styles are always entertaining to read.
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Nov 5 2009, 01:14 AM)
All Brontosaurus's were smaller at one end, much larger in the middle and smaller again at the other end.
That is my theory... it's mine... therefore it's my theory.
PS ... I stole the theory.
bonus cookies to the first person to figure out where I stole it from.
That is my theory... it's mine... therefore it's my theory.
PS ... I stole the theory.
bonus cookies to the first person to figure out where I stole it from.
It was not from Fred Flintstone.
He didn't need a theory on dinosaurs...
It's from here... Theory about the Brontosaurus
He didn't need a theory on dinosaurs...
It's from here... Theory about the Brontosaurus
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