Whitewolf4869
How does the standard theory explain the temperature of deep space?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 30 2012, 05:26 PM)
How does the standard theory explain the temperature of deep space?

Vacuum doesn't have a temperature, so what temperature are you referring to? Gas and dust in deep space?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+May 30 2012, 05:44 PM)
Gas and dust in deep space?

All objects emit radiation. Your body is currently emitting infrared radiation at this very moment. Every time your body emits radiation, it loses a tiny amount of energy in the form of heat. Objects can pass heat through 3 methods: conduction, convection and radiation. In deep space, conduction and convection are impossible, so that leaves just radiation.

As an object in deep space emits radiation, it loses energy and becomes colder. If there were a nearby radiant heat source (like a star) then it could remain at a stable temperature. Instead, the object grows colder and colder as it emits lower and lower energy radiation, until it hits a lower limit where it can't emit any more photons.
Whitewolf4869
Ok
But does the standard model predict a vacuum?
Is seams to me that the big bang is a contradiction of reality .
Confused1
1/ I'd guess everything establishes some sort of equlibrium with the cosmic background radiation (2.7K) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_background_radiation )
2/ I don't think an isolated atom (or molecule) has a 'temperature' (which makes me wonder about 1/ )
-C2.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 30 2012, 06:32 PM)
But does the standard model predict a vacuum?
Is seams to me that the big bang is a contradiction of reality.

What does the Standard Model have to do with vacuums or deep space?
What does this have to do with the Big Bang?
You might as well ask if Evolution predicts the number 5.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Confused1+May 30 2012, 06:39 PM)
1/ I'd guess everything establishes some sort of equlibrium with the cosmic background radiation (2.7K) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_background_radiation )
2/ I don't think an isolated atom (or molecule) has a 'temperature' (which makes me wonder about 1/ )
-C2.

True on both counts. At this point we're just going off of the energy level of the electron shell.
Confused1
QUOTE (FBM+)
At this point we're just going off of the energy level of the electron shell.

?
To have a 'temperature' I suspect you need enough energy states for them to appear continuous (classical) .. I don't think small things (eg atoms) can do that.
-C2.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Confused1+May 30 2012, 06:56 PM)
QUOTE (FBM+)
At this point we're just going off of the energy level of the electron shell.

?
To have a 'temperature' I suspect you need enough energy states for them to appear continuous (classical) .. I don't think small things (eg atoms) can do that.
-C2.

Temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy at an atomic scale, correct?
Whitewolf4869
Vacuum, temp , and big bang theory are all related.
Deep space temp has been measured at 3 degrees kelvin.

If you don't know' all you have to do is say so.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 30 2012, 07:05 PM)
Vacuum, temp , and big bang theory are all related.

You're being vague. The Standard Model deals with atomic structure, The Big Bang deals with the origin and composition of the universe. Why would either of these preclude vacuums?
QUOTE
Deep space temp has been measured at 3 degrees kelvin.

I think you're talking about Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. Is that correct?
Confused1
QUOTE (FBM+)
Temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy at an atomic scale, correct?
We may well be in agreement here. I can only remember anything about gases ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%E2%80...nn_distribution ) .. so I'm guessing you need lotsa 'microstates' in solids as well .. but could be wrong. IF you need lotsa 'microstates' in solids then you need to be looking at something .. er .. 'substantial'. -C2.
Confused1
@FBM,
A quick look * at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_fun...al_mechanics%29 suggests even a small number of states can have a 'thermal equilibrium' and if it has a thermal equlibrium then (I reckon) it has a temperature. -C2.

* - It's too late for me to start looking at this in detail .. (about 25 years too late).
flyingbuttressman
I should have remembered, Whitewolf4869 is an idiot.
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtop...ndpost&p=514582
You've been spewing the same nonsense since you got here. Your argument against the BBT is "vacuums don't expand?"
Whitewolf4869
What makes you think local Phisics is any diffrent then cosmic Phisics?
Why should a vacuum behave diffrently on earth then it does out there?
What came first Enistines theory of relativity or reality?
What happens when a gas is realesed into a vacuum?
I beleave that there was no big bang and that the vacuum of space was already there or no where whatever you prefer.
That may be hard to exept as we live in a physical reality.
Relativity is just a theory which suites us at our stage of technology.
The flat earth theory suited our ancestors before ocean going ships were invented.

flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+May 30 2012, 09:38 PM)
I should have remembered, Whitewolf4869 is an idiot.

See above.
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+May 30 2012, 09:44 PM)
Vacuum doesn't have a temperature, so what temperature are you referring to? Gas and dust in deep space?

Vacuum doesn't have temperature but it can inflate!
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 31 2012, 06:50 PM)
Vacuum doesn't have temperature but it can inflate!

Is that a question or a statement?
Whitewolf4869
I understand your interested in chemistry.
What happens when you release a gas under pressure into a vacuum?
Whitewolf4869
What is the purpose of the inflation theory ?

1 It explains uniform cosmic temp

2 It explains the predicted rate of expansion

3 It explains predicted geometry

Evan though WMAP observations show a flat geometry
What is the purpose of creating a fantasy to support a fundamentally flawed equation?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 31 2012, 07:58 PM)
Evan though WMAP observations show a flat geometry
What is the purpose of creating a fantasy to support a fundamentally flawed equation?

You're a troll. You're not interested in debate, just in hit-and-run attacks. You asked "How does the standard theory explain the temperature of deep space?"

That question was dishonest, since you already know the answer, and was way too vague to be answered correctly. In general, your tactic is to ask poorly-phrased questions with horrific spelling and grammar (mater? really?) and then act like you're actually making some kind of statement against Big Bang theory.

Sit down and shut up.
Whitewolf4869
This is not about spelling or grammar little man!
As far as I can see when ever some one new makes a statment or askes a question you and the other trolls chime in and tell them how stupid they are.
As a mater of fact none of you "and you know who you are "ever make a serious contribution to this forum.
You think your going to some how save the earth from a dooms day rock by building a warp drive or some other fantastic device you saw on startreck.
I'm into science fiction too but I am literate enough to know what FICTION means.

Have a nice day playing with your action figures.
Yours truly Whitewolf

flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 1 2012, 08:10 AM)
This is not about spelling or grammar little man!

Obviously, communication is not your intention.
QUOTE
As far as I can see when ever some one new makes a statment or askes a question you and the other trolls chime in and tell them how stupid they are.

That's not true. Real questions get real answers. Troll questions get troll answers.
Pretty much every question you've asked is a troll question. I made a mistake by attempting to give you a real answer.
It seems that your sole purpose on this forum is disproving the Big Bang theory. Do you think you're the first to try this? That's probably the single largest source of cranks on this site. How original of you.
QUOTE (->
 QUOTE This is about thought As far as I can see when ever some one new makes a statment or askes a question you and the other trolls chime in and tell them how stupid they are.

That's not true. Real questions get real answers. Troll questions get troll answers.
Pretty much every question you've asked is a troll question. I made a mistake by attempting to give you a real answer.
It seems that your sole purpose on this forum is disproving the Big Bang theory. Do you think you're the first to try this? That's probably the single largest source of cranks on this site. How original of you.
You think your going to some how save the earth from a dooms day rock by building a warp drive or some other fantastic device you saw on startreck.
I'm into science fiction too but I am literate enough to know what FICTION means.

Are you talking about Mazulu? He's an idiot.
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Jun 1 2012, 01:26 PM)
Obviously, communication is not your intention.

That's not true. Real questions get real answers. Troll questions get troll answers.
Pretty much every question you've asked is a troll question. I made a mistake by attempting to give you a real answer.
It seems that your sole purpose on this forum is disproving the Big Bang theory. Do you think you're the first to try this? That's probably the single largest source of cranks on this site. How original of you.

Are you talking about Mazulu? He's an idiot.

I welcome positive feedback. I'm not interested about what you learned from a textbook I can do that my self.
I have absolutely no problem with basic big bang concept I think it is correct in principle.
My interpretation of the event is more like a cosmic burp and not a massive explosion causing spacial expansion.
I believe that the ever increasing speed of matter is due to the amount of space that it now occupies.
My observation is that space has properties similar to water.

flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 1 2012, 11:32 AM)
I'm not interested about what you learned from a textbook I can do that my self.

Nothing I post comes out of a textbook. Why are you offended by facts?
QUOTE
I have absolutely no problem with basic big bang concept I think it is correct in principle.
My interpretation of the event is more like a cosmic burp and not a massive explosion causing spacial expansion.

So, the Big Bang is "like" a release of gas from the stomach through the esophagus? Okie Dokie.
The whole point of the Big Bang is the spacial expansion part. There wasn't even anything that you could call an explosion. Space got bigger, and matter went with it.
QUOTE (->
 QUOTE I have absolutely no problem with basic big bang concept I think it is correct in principle.My interpretation of the event is more like a cosmic burp and not a massive explosion causing spacial expansion.

So, the Big Bang is "like" a release of gas from the stomach through the esophagus? Okie Dokie.
The whole point of the Big Bang is the spacial expansion part. There wasn't even anything that you could call an explosion. Space got bigger, and matter went with it.
I believe that the ever increasing speed of matter is due to the amount of space that it now occupies.

That doesn't make sense on any level.
QUOTE
My observation is that space has properties similar to water.

Have you observed these water-like qualities for yourself? Is space a liquid? Does it have surface tension? Does it refract light?
"Space is like a material" is false on every possible level.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Guest+Jun 1 2012, 12:21 PM)
Equations discrib thought not the other way around FBM you are a *** idio!

If you're attempting to insult someone, try to spell "idiot" right.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Guest+Jun 1 2012, 12:54 PM)
Fu€king 1DIOT

Keep trying, I'm sure you'll get it right eventually.
Whitewolf4869
You could allways start your own flyboy
That is if you are actually a real person and not just a figment of my imagination.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 1 2012, 02:43 PM)

Sorry, was there some kind of intellectual dialogue that I interrupted?
Whitewolf4869
If the big bang is responsible the expansion of space wouldnt other eliments have been created besides hydrogen?
The heat and pressure would have had enought time to create some heavier elements.
But if it expanded into a cold and empty vacuum cooling would be instantaneous.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 3 2012, 08:54 PM)
If the big bang is responsible the expansion of space wouldnt other eliments have been created besides hydrogen?
The heat and pressure would have had enought time to create some heavier elements.

What pressure are you referring to? The Big Bang wasn't an explosion, it was the container (the universe) expanding. Atoms didn't even form until the process was underway.
QUOTE
But if it expanded into a cold and empty vacuum cooling would be instantaneous.

It didn't expand into a vacuum, space expanded within and around the matter. There was cooling, but extremely hot cooled down is still very hot.
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Jun 4 2012, 01:02 AM)
What pressure are you referring to? The Big Bang wasn't an explosion, it was the container (the universe) expanding. Atoms didn't even form until the process was underway.

It didn't expand into a vacuum, space expanded within and around the matter. There was cooling, but extremely hot cooled down is still very hot.

You don't know where matter came from.
The best explanation is that we are on the other side of a black hole.
And an uncontroled expansion is essentially an explosion.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 3 2012, 09:18 PM)
You don't know where matter came from.

And you do?
QUOTE
The best explanation is that we are on the other side of a black hole.

That is AN explanation, but it is not the only one, and it is pretty much unfalsifiable at this point.
QUOTE (->
 QUOTE The best explanation is that we are on the other side of a black hole.

That is AN explanation, but it is not the only one, and it is pretty much unfalsifiable at this point.
And an uncontroled expansion is essentially an explosion.

Except in this case, it's not.
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Jun 4 2012, 01:44 AM)
And you do?

That is AN explanation, but it is not the only one, and it is pretty much unfalsifiable at this point.

Except in this case, it's not.

If you have another alternative let's hear it.
Where there's heat theres pressure.
Why do I feel like I'm educating you in basic physics?
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 3 2012, 10:14 PM)
Where there's heat theres pressure.
Why do I feel like I'm educating you in basic physics?

You're an idiot if you think that volume plays no part in that equation.
brucep
QUOTE (Guest+Jun 1 2012, 04:54 PM)
Fu€king 1DIOT

You should let it go RC before you blow a gasket. Probably the seal between your neck and the surface of your anus.
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (brucep+Jun 4 2012, 06:41 AM)
You should let it go RC before you blow a gasket. Probably the seal between your neck and the surface of your anus.

Hey Alzheimer this stuff isn't for you.
You are still getting used to the wonder of electric lighting.
WhyTheLongFace
Stick a thermometer up your Butt and stare at your long face in the Pub mirror!
Whitewolf4869
QUOTE (WhyTheLongFace+Jun 4 2012, 11:14 AM)
Stick a thermometer up your Butt and stare at your long face in the Pub mirror!

I'm impressed with your level of sophistication Butter Cup
brucep
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 4 2012, 10:45 AM)
Hey Alzheimer this stuff isn't for you.
You are still getting used to the wonder of electric lighting.

Quit using your face for toilet paper. Especially in public. Must be hard to face wipe your a\$\$ while orbiting the dunce stool. Probably not the only hard thing staring into your eyes.
brucep
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Jun 1 2012, 07:36 PM)
Sorry, was there some kind of intellectual dialogue that I interrupted?

We're at extreme forum knucklehead high tide.
Robittybob1
QUOTE (brucep+Jun 4 2012, 06:25 PM)

We're at extreme forum knucklehead high tide.

It must be the effects of the full moon of late.
QUOTE (brucep+Jun 4 2012, 06:41 AM)
You should let it go RC before you blow a gasket. Probably the seal between your neck and the surface of your anus.

Genius comment.
Robittybob1
QUOTE (Guest+Jun 4 2012, 08:45 PM)

Seconded!

Too bad there's no moderator here that moderates based on content, just on personal opinion.

Apparently, WhiteBarf and others are more welcome than non-trolls...

Well if your original intention was to build this forum you would still be here , but if your intention was to direct all the better ones to your own site, then you had to go.
Mekigal
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 1 2012, 12:10 PM)
.
You think your going to some how save the earth from a dooms day rock

Wow . Where did that come from . How did you know ? You can't stop Me . Many have tried from the beginning of time .
Rock and roll will never die as the saying goes
Guest
QUOTE (Suckpuppet+)
Well if your original intention was to build this forum you would still be here , but if your intention was to direct all the better ones to your own site, then you had to go.

Have you a literate helper? I hope you can't pay enough for it to eat, in hopes that it will eat you.

Troll.
Whitewolf4869
I think the original question is being avoided!
My observation is that all these smart MFs don't have a clue!
And yes Mekigal long live rock & role.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Jun 5 2012, 12:08 AM)
I think the original question is being avoided!

Your original question was vague and stupid. You refused to clarify your question, so the conversation went elsewhere.
Robittybob1
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 30 2012, 09:26 PM)
How does the standard theory explain the temperature of deep space?

the temperature of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) as observed in the present day is 2.725 K (degrees Kelvin). I think this represents the average temperature of any object in deep space. Radiation received will balance radiation emitted and the object will be equilibrium at 2.725 K.

sonoran sundown
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+May 30 2012, 09:26 PM)
How does the standard theory explain the temperature of deep space?

As I understand it, the current Std. Model accepts 2.3K as the effective temperature of the CMB, which exists in all of space....
Whitewolf4869
Recent study's have showed that dark mater and dark energy are a factor in the temp of deep space
and not necessarily background radiation left over from the big bang
krash661
wow
AlexG
QUOTE (Whitewolf4869+Oct 7 2012, 05:23 PM)
Recent study's have showed that dark mater and dark energy are a factor in the temp of deep space
and not necessarily background radiation left over from the big bang

Citation?
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