Apologies if this topic has been discussed or if I am asking a stupid question, but here goes: To what degree of certainty is the scientific communities knowledge concerning the fate of star production? Is star production doomed to end and the universe doomed to slowly burnout or are there other possiblities? Any help on this subject would be much appreciated.
Why should star production in the universe come to an end?
It seems, that in the center of every galaxy, a huge star recycling
engine is sitting, called AGN (Active Galactic Nucleus).
An AGN consist mainly of a spinning supermassive black hole, it's
accretion disk and two axial mass ejection jets.
Altough the exact mechanism is unknown, AGN's seem to eat
stars and galactiv debris form past supernovae, decompose
heavy elements into elemental hydrogen (and a little bit iron) and spit
this matter out - lightyear's away. From the hydrogen new stars will be
born, that go supernova, that form heavy elements, that form new stars
and new planets.... and so one.
Quasi stellar objects (QSO's), formerly named 'Quasars', show the
same behavior. They are smaller than AGN's and are thought to perform
'local matter recycling' within galaxies.
Further, galaxies collides regularly due to gravitational attraction.
Such events 'juvenates' stellar matter in the sense, that
AGN's of colliding galaxies merge, and, get 'fresh food'.
That increases the amount of gaseous hydrogen in a rather
dramatic way.
Today it is clear, that Milky Way WILL collide with Andromeda in
several billion years.
So I see a rather good chance, that most quarks and electrons of
your body will end up in a new, bright star one day.... :-)
It seems, that in the center of every galaxy, a huge star recycling
engine is sitting, called AGN (Active Galactic Nucleus).
An AGN consist mainly of a spinning supermassive black hole, it's
accretion disk and two axial mass ejection jets.
Altough the exact mechanism is unknown, AGN's seem to eat
stars and galactiv debris form past supernovae, decompose
heavy elements into elemental hydrogen (and a little bit iron) and spit
this matter out - lightyear's away. From the hydrogen new stars will be
born, that go supernova, that form heavy elements, that form new stars
and new planets.... and so one.
Quasi stellar objects (QSO's), formerly named 'Quasars', show the
same behavior. They are smaller than AGN's and are thought to perform
'local matter recycling' within galaxies.
Further, galaxies collides regularly due to gravitational attraction.
Such events 'juvenates' stellar matter in the sense, that
AGN's of colliding galaxies merge, and, get 'fresh food'.
That increases the amount of gaseous hydrogen in a rather
dramatic way.
Today it is clear, that Milky Way WILL collide with Andromeda in
several billion years.
So I see a rather good chance, that most quarks and electrons of
your body will end up in a new, bright star one day.... :-)
Nicely put, sacha4you. I think this is Space collapsing in on itself, simply because it has nowhere 'else' to go!
This is all very new 'news', and I think many people are having a tough time keeping up with the rapidly changing findings.
This is all very new 'news', and I think many people are having a tough time keeping up with the rapidly changing findings.
QUOTE (sacha4you+Jan 2 2008, 11:31 PM)
Altough the exact mechanism is unknown, AGN's seem to eat
stars and galactiv debris form past supernovae, decompose
heavy elements into elemental hydrogen (and a little bit iron) and spit
this matter out - lightyear's away. From the hydrogen new stars will be
born, that go supernova, that form heavy elements, that form new stars
and new planets.... and so one.
I actually thought, that matter can not escape the gravitational pull of a black hole and the only thing that cames out of matter is gamma-rays, x-rays and some em-radiation.
but matter?
QUOTE (sacha4you+Jan 2 2008, 11:31 PM)
...
Altough the exact mechanism is unknown, AGN's seem to eat
stars and galactiv debris form past supernovae, decompose
heavy elements into elemental hydrogen (and a little bit iron) and spit
this matter out - lightyear's away. From the hydrogen new stars will be
born, that go supernova, that form heavy elements, that form new stars
and new planets.... and so one.
Quasi stellar objects (QSO's), formerly named 'Quasars', show the
same behavior. They are smaller than AGN's and are thought to perform
'local matter recycling' within galaxies.
...
Much of this is correct but a few facts were mangled. Quasars are not smaller than AGN, they are a type of AGN. QSO is not an alternate word for quasar -- quasars are radio bright and QSOs aren't. AGN do not "decompose heavy elements into elemental hydrogen."
Altough the exact mechanism is unknown, AGN's seem to eat
stars and galactiv debris form past supernovae, decompose
heavy elements into elemental hydrogen (and a little bit iron) and spit
this matter out - lightyear's away. From the hydrogen new stars will be
born, that go supernova, that form heavy elements, that form new stars
and new planets.... and so one.
Quasi stellar objects (QSO's), formerly named 'Quasars', show the
same behavior. They are smaller than AGN's and are thought to perform
'local matter recycling' within galaxies.
...
Much of this is correct but a few facts were mangled. Quasars are not smaller than AGN, they are a type of AGN. QSO is not an alternate word for quasar -- quasars are radio bright and QSOs aren't. AGN do not "decompose heavy elements into elemental hydrogen."
QUOTE (baburator+Jan 5 2008, 03:24 PM)
I actually thought, that matter can not escape the gravitational pull of a black hole and the only thing that cames out of matter is gamma-rays, x-rays and some em-radiation. but matter?
The trick is that the matter and energy never were in the black hole. Matter is accumulated in a disk outside of the hole and some off this is accelerated, perhaps because of the twisting of magnetic field lines by the hole. Nothing, not even gamma-rays, x-rays, or other em radiation can escape from within the hole.
but matter? The trick is that the matter and energy never were in the black hole. Matter is accumulated in a disk outside of the hole and some off this is accelerated, perhaps because of the twisting of magnetic field lines by the hole. Nothing, not even gamma-rays, x-rays, or other em radiation can escape from within the hole.
If the Big Bang theory were true, star production WOULD eventually come to an end eons and eons from now.
Over very, very long period of time, space-time itself would continue to expand, and all existing stars (and galaxies) would burn up. This leaves nothing but radiation and particles and dust from nova and supernova explosions. In some rare cases these clouds would be dense enough to reform new stars and galaxies, but the over all "density" of the universe would be much lower. So even though the stars would recycle the elements until they got heavier and heavier (or until the proton and neutron decay, whichever comes first), the density of the universe would decrease over time until there would not be enough matter in any one region of space to create new stars. All matter would either be trapped in black holes at the center of the original galaxies, or else distributed fairly evenly throughout assymptotically "Flat" voids in space-time.
Over time, even these particles would decay to simpler forms of radiation. Then over very, very, very long time there would reach a point where there was less than one particle per volume equal to that of the current observable universe, at about that point, physics as we know it would become completely impossible, as no "information"(gravity, charge, nuclear force) could ever travel between any two particles no matter how much "time" passed.
Hubbles law says universe is expanding at ~71k/s/megaparsec. So in roughly 10 billion years, the universe would have doubled its current radius, but will contain the same mass and energy. In 16 billion years it will have tripled its current radius. In about 20 billion years it will have quadrupled its radius, etc. The faster it expands, the faster it will expand, such that in 30 billion years the universe' radius will be eight times what it is now, with 512 times the volume, but still the same mass.
So in 20 billion years, the average density of mass and energy of the universe will be 1/64th of what it is now, and galaxies will have lost tremendous amounts of mass in the form of light, solar wind from their stars, and other forms of ejecta due to nova, supernova, and other explosions escaping into "intergalactic" space. Most of this will be spread out through the "new" space in this much larger, but far less dense universe, and the probability of any of it forming new stars is virtually non-existent.
Over very, very long period of time, space-time itself would continue to expand, and all existing stars (and galaxies) would burn up. This leaves nothing but radiation and particles and dust from nova and supernova explosions. In some rare cases these clouds would be dense enough to reform new stars and galaxies, but the over all "density" of the universe would be much lower. So even though the stars would recycle the elements until they got heavier and heavier (or until the proton and neutron decay, whichever comes first), the density of the universe would decrease over time until there would not be enough matter in any one region of space to create new stars. All matter would either be trapped in black holes at the center of the original galaxies, or else distributed fairly evenly throughout assymptotically "Flat" voids in space-time.
Over time, even these particles would decay to simpler forms of radiation. Then over very, very, very long time there would reach a point where there was less than one particle per volume equal to that of the current observable universe, at about that point, physics as we know it would become completely impossible, as no "information"(gravity, charge, nuclear force) could ever travel between any two particles no matter how much "time" passed.
Hubbles law says universe is expanding at ~71k/s/megaparsec. So in roughly 10 billion years, the universe would have doubled its current radius, but will contain the same mass and energy. In 16 billion years it will have tripled its current radius. In about 20 billion years it will have quadrupled its radius, etc. The faster it expands, the faster it will expand, such that in 30 billion years the universe' radius will be eight times what it is now, with 512 times the volume, but still the same mass.
So in 20 billion years, the average density of mass and energy of the universe will be 1/64th of what it is now, and galaxies will have lost tremendous amounts of mass in the form of light, solar wind from their stars, and other forms of ejecta due to nova, supernova, and other explosions escaping into "intergalactic" space. Most of this will be spread out through the "new" space in this much larger, but far less dense universe, and the probability of any of it forming new stars is virtually non-existent.
QUOTE (barakn+Jan 5 2008, 04:43 PM)
Nothing, not even gamma-rays, x-rays, or other em radiation can escape from within the hole.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation no?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation no?
QUOTE
A powerful jet of particles from a "supermassive" black hole has been seen blasting a nearby galaxy, according to the US space agency (Nasa).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7148671.stm
QUOTE (baburator+Jan 5 2008, 08:23 PM)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation no?
Good question. For a large black hole I can give a somewhat authoritative answer. What happens is that a particle/anti-particle pair pops into existence OUTSIDE of the black hole. Ordinarily they would instantly recombine and disappear but in this case the black hole sucks one in, allowing the other to escape. The one that escapes was never inside the hole. For micro black holes someone better versed in the physics may have to fill in, because quantum physics plays a larger role and things get much stranger.
Good question. For a large black hole I can give a somewhat authoritative answer. What happens is that a particle/anti-particle pair pops into existence OUTSIDE of the black hole. Ordinarily they would instantly recombine and disappear but in this case the black hole sucks one in, allowing the other to escape. The one that escapes was never inside the hole. For micro black holes someone better versed in the physics may have to fill in, because quantum physics plays a larger role and things get much stranger.
Reality is not strange. 'Strange' is another word Humans have invented for 'does not yet compute'.
pops into existence? And that's 'authoritative', is it? Sounds like more poor, and desperately spewed politics to me.
m2
QUOTE
For a large black hole I can give a somewhat authoritative answer. What happens is that a particle/anti-particle pair pops into existence OUTSIDE of the black hole.
pops into existence? And that's 'authoritative', is it? Sounds like more poor, and desperately spewed politics to me.
m2
QUOTE (m2+Jan 10 2008, 11:05 AM)
pops into existence? And that's 'authoritative', is it? Sounds like more poor, and desperately spewed politics to me.
If you knew the first thing about quantum mechanics, you would know that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle allows matter - antimatter particle pairs to "pop" into existence.
QUOTE
Sounds like more poor, and desperately spewed politics to me.
Oh, yes of course, that was said purely to make sure Bush is elected as President again by cheating the political system. Go polish your aluminium hat.
- Gehn
Hey, man! I've got a foil liner for my Stetson. Smile when you say that! 
QUOTE (sacha4you+Jan 2 2008, 11:31 PM)
It seems, that in the center of every galaxy, a huge star recycling
engine is sitting, called AGN (Active Galactic Nucleus).
Most galaxies do not have AGN.
engine is sitting, called AGN (Active Galactic Nucleus).
Most galaxies do not have AGN.
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