I know next to nothing about quantum mechanics. According to some people I've talked to, it is possible in principle for something to be caused from nothing. One person states that with vacuum fluctuations, quantum particles pop into existence out of a quantum vacuum. This same person says that quantum physicists almost universally reject the local hidden variables interpretation of quantum mechanics, and that the amount of energy in a quantum vacuum is not enough to produce quantum particles.
Is this really true? I mean, do physicists really believe that things come into existence with absolutely no cause whatsoever? Or is this a bastardization of science?
Any help would be appreciated.
Happy new year.
QUOTE (Cgar+Dec 31 2011, 09:01 PM)
I know next to nothing about quantum mechanics. According to some people I've talked to, it is possible in principle for something to be caused from nothing. One person states that with vacuum fluctuations, quantum particles pop into existence out of a quantum vacuum. This same person says that quantum physicists almost universally reject the local hidden variables interpretation of quantum mechanics, and that the amount of energy in a quantum vacuum is not enough to produce quantum particles.
Is this really true? I mean, do physicists really believe that things come into existence with absolutely no cause whatsoever? Or is this a bastardization of science?
Any help would be appreciated.
Happy new year.
From the style of the question you know more about QM that most. It might still be next to nothing, but you have started me thinking you are asking a deep question about the creation of the Universe from nothing. A sort of Stephen hawking type concept.
It comes down to which one do you want to accept, "God did it" or "it just came from Nothing"?
As I understand it (I know less than you guaranteed) is that virtual particles can appear in space (vacuum) without cause, but in this situation the vacuum has a lot of energy waves in it already, i.e. there is already something else in it so it doesn't technically come from nothing but from fluctuations of that energy.
Is this really true? I mean, do physicists really believe that things come into existence with absolutely no cause whatsoever? Or is this a bastardization of science?
Any help would be appreciated.
Happy new year.
From the style of the question you know more about QM that most. It might still be next to nothing, but you have started me thinking you are asking a deep question about the creation of the Universe from nothing. A sort of Stephen hawking type concept.
It comes down to which one do you want to accept, "God did it" or "it just came from Nothing"?
As I understand it (I know less than you guaranteed) is that virtual particles can appear in space (vacuum) without cause, but in this situation the vacuum has a lot of energy waves in it already, i.e. there is already something else in it so it doesn't technically come from nothing but from fluctuations of that energy.
Due to the time-energy uncertainty principle, yes, the vacuum of space does contain energy fluctuations which have no discernible cause. Virtual particles are basically synonymous with vacuum fluctuations, and are evidenced by the Casimir effect and are the force carriers between real particles.
Yes, it is widely agreed that local hidden variables do not exist.
No bastardization at all.
Yes, it is widely agreed that local hidden variables do not exist.
No bastardization at all.
What about 99.99% of quantum vacuum being made of dark energy / mass?
Is it like virtual particles / dark matter mix kind of space?
Does dark energy shows up in experiments too?
Is it like virtual particles / dark matter mix kind of space?
Does dark energy shows up in experiments too?
QUOTE (synthsin75+Dec 31 2011, 10:21 PM)
Due to the time-energy uncertainty principle, yes, the vacuum of space does contain energy fluctuations which have no discernible cause. Virtual particles are basically synonymous with vacuum fluctuations, and are evidenced by the Casimir effect and are the force carriers between real particles.
Yes, it is widely agreed that local hidden variables do not exist.
No bastardization at all.
Please do not construe this as rude, but I feel like I need to ask this:
Why can subatomic particles come into existence out of nothing, but not something like a car or a spaceship? I mean, if it is the case that subatomic particles can come into existence out of nothing, then why isn't it the case that a spaceship couldn't just randomly appear in my backyard?
Yes, it is widely agreed that local hidden variables do not exist.
No bastardization at all.
Please do not construe this as rude, but I feel like I need to ask this:
Why can subatomic particles come into existence out of nothing, but not something like a car or a spaceship? I mean, if it is the case that subatomic particles can come into existence out of nothing, then why isn't it the case that a spaceship couldn't just randomly appear in my backyard?
QUOTE (Cgar+Jan 1 2012, 03:03 AM)
a spaceship couldn't just randomly appear in my backyard?
Even more miraculous;- a brain appearing in your head.
Even more miraculous;- a brain appearing in your head.
QUOTE (Cgar+Dec 31 2011, 09:03 PM)
Please do not construe this as rude, but I feel like I need to ask this:
Why can subatomic particles come into existence out of nothing, but not something like a car or a spaceship? I mean, if it is the case that subatomic particles can come into existence out of nothing, then why isn't it the case that a spaceship couldn't just randomly appear in my backyard?
That's an honest question.
This has to do with the time-energy uncertainty principle. Basically, the shorter the time something exists the less we can determine its energy. Cars and spaceship exist long enough for us to know precisely how much energy they have. The rule of thumb is if there is time to determine a particle's energy then it is, by default, a real particle. Otherwise it is a virtual particle.
Why can subatomic particles come into existence out of nothing, but not something like a car or a spaceship? I mean, if it is the case that subatomic particles can come into existence out of nothing, then why isn't it the case that a spaceship couldn't just randomly appear in my backyard?
That's an honest question.
This has to do with the time-energy uncertainty principle. Basically, the shorter the time something exists the less we can determine its energy. Cars and spaceship exist long enough for us to know precisely how much energy they have. The rule of thumb is if there is time to determine a particle's energy then it is, by default, a real particle. Otherwise it is a virtual particle.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Dec 31 2011, 09:07 PM)
Even more miraculous;- a brain appearing in your head.
Hey, that is uncalled for, LE!
Cgar has only posted twice, with honest questions and no agenda or intentionally misconstrued science. Don't run off every hapless soul who wonders in here. So far, this one doesn't appear to be a troll.
Hey, that is uncalled for, LE!
Cgar has only posted twice, with honest questions and no agenda or intentionally misconstrued science. Don't run off every hapless soul who wonders in here. So far, this one doesn't appear to be a troll.
Yup, you're right;- sorry 'bout that Cgar.
Poor judgement & abuse mode @ full momentum to blame.
Apology aside ........ wonder this;-
If the universe/multiverse is all connected @ some higher dimensional level, one day technology may allow us to engineer purpose built butterfly effects via some manipulative resonance device. By this, I simply mean;- create a 'pattern' that induces the universe to pop into existence, a Ferrari and hot blonde nymphomanic girlfriend literally out of thin air.
Edit;- You may understand why this concept still appeals to me.
Poor judgement & abuse mode @ full momentum to blame.
Apology aside ........ wonder this;-
If the universe/multiverse is all connected @ some higher dimensional level, one day technology may allow us to engineer purpose built butterfly effects via some manipulative resonance device. By this, I simply mean;- create a 'pattern' that induces the universe to pop into existence, a Ferrari and hot blonde nymphomanic girlfriend literally out of thin air.
Edit;- You may understand why this concept still appeals to me.
Hey, the power of the "Q" ...... kewl! 
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Jan 1 2012, 12:10 PM)
Yup, you're right;- sorry 'bout that Cgar.
Poor judgement & abuse mode @ full momentum to blame.
Apology aside ........ wonder this;-
If the universe/multiverse is all connected @ some higher dimensional level, one day technology may allow us to engineer purpose built butterfly effects via some manipulative resonance device. By this, I simply mean;- create a 'pattern' that induces the universe to pop into existence, a Ferrari and hot blonde nymphomanic girlfriend literally out of thin air.
Edit;- You may understand why this concept still appeals to me.
If Ferraris could be just plucked out of the air , and nympho blonds could be plucked all day long, you would soon have the desire for a bit of mundane practicality and a good home cooked meal.
If every stone was a diamond they would have little value.
Just waking up - haven't got my thoughts well controlled just at the moment!
Poor judgement & abuse mode @ full momentum to blame.
Apology aside ........ wonder this;-
If the universe/multiverse is all connected @ some higher dimensional level, one day technology may allow us to engineer purpose built butterfly effects via some manipulative resonance device. By this, I simply mean;- create a 'pattern' that induces the universe to pop into existence, a Ferrari and hot blonde nymphomanic girlfriend literally out of thin air.
Edit;- You may understand why this concept still appeals to me.
If Ferraris could be just plucked out of the air , and nympho blonds could be plucked all day long, you would soon have the desire for a bit of mundane practicality and a good home cooked meal.
If every stone was a diamond they would have little value.
Just waking up - haven't got my thoughts well controlled just at the moment!
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 02:24 PM)
haven't got my thoughts
Agreed ........ startlingly apparent from 27 trillion parsecs, with bitumen coated welding goggles on.
Agreed ........ startlingly apparent from 27 trillion parsecs, with bitumen coated welding goggles on.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 02:24 PM)
nympho blonds could be plucked all day long
"plucked"? .... surely that's a spelling mistake?
"plucked"? .... surely that's a spelling mistake?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 02:24 PM)
If Ferraris could be just plucked out of the air , and nympho blonds could be plucked all day long, you would soon have the desire for a bit of mundane practicality and a good home cooked meal.
If every stone was a diamond they would have little value.
But, the human imagination is quite insatiable, no?
If every stone was a diamond they would have little value.
But, the human imagination is quite insatiable, no?
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Jan 1 2012, 02:54 PM)
But, the human imagination is quite insatiable, no?
Those were the days my friend
We thought they would never end ....
Yesterday I never needed help in any way
...
You'll get over it. Maybe not!
Those were the days my friend
We thought they would never end ....
Yesterday I never needed help in any way
...
You'll get over it. Maybe not!
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 04:08 PM)
Those were the days my friend
We thought they would never end ....
Yesterday I never needed help in any way
...
You'll get over it. Maybe not!
Nice music, man .. Mary Hopkins?
We thought they would never end ....
Yesterday I never needed help in any way
...
You'll get over it. Maybe not!
Nice music, man .. Mary Hopkins?
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Jan 1 2012, 04:09 PM)
Nice music, man .. Mary Hopkins?
Something for nothing - give me an example please.
Imagination can become "real" momentarily.
I was faced with the problem of inventing a seal for drums out of discarded tubes (part of a recycling project), and faced with the problem, I was putting the parts together and for a moment I "saw" the final product when it had yet to be built.
Have you ever had that?
Something for nothing - give me an example please.
Imagination can become "real" momentarily.
I was faced with the problem of inventing a seal for drums out of discarded tubes (part of a recycling project), and faced with the problem, I was putting the parts together and for a moment I "saw" the final product when it had yet to be built.
Have you ever had that?
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 04:19 PM)
Something for nothing - give me an example please.
Imagination can become "real" momentarily.
I was faced with the problem of inventing a seal for drums out of discarded tubes (part of a recycling project), and faced with the problem, I was putting the parts together and for a moment I "saw" the final product when it had yet to be built.
Have you ever had that?
Yeah, I once as a little boy (3 years) realizing religion was utter tosh .... needed to really know what actual reality might be;- the jigsaw is totally unfinished, but I think I can discern a few things now.
David Richard Paul.
Imagination can become "real" momentarily.
I was faced with the problem of inventing a seal for drums out of discarded tubes (part of a recycling project), and faced with the problem, I was putting the parts together and for a moment I "saw" the final product when it had yet to be built.
Have you ever had that?
Yeah, I once as a little boy (3 years) realizing religion was utter tosh .... needed to really know what actual reality might be;- the jigsaw is totally unfinished, but I think I can discern a few things now.
David Richard Paul.
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Jan 1 2012, 04:28 PM)
Yeah, I once as a little boy (3 years) realizing religion was utter tosh .... needed to really know what actual reality might be;- the jigsaw is totally unfinished, but I think I can discern a few things now.
David Richard Paul.
Just patches of the picture? Knowledge is such a vast concept, I know it has me beat, but I have not given up getting the sketch of it all.
OK you might have gone for the picture, the final completed puzzle.
Check: How many pieces have been forced together? This is part of the problem if it fits on one or two sides and you put it in, but it was a stretch really.
Rob.
David Richard Paul.
Just patches of the picture? Knowledge is such a vast concept, I know it has me beat, but I have not given up getting the sketch of it all.
OK you might have gone for the picture, the final completed puzzle.
Check: How many pieces have been forced together? This is part of the problem if it fits on one or two sides and you put it in, but it was a stretch really.
Rob.
QUOTE (Robittybob1+Jan 1 2012, 04:40 PM)
Just patches of the picture? Knowledge is such a vast concept, I know it has me beat, but I have not given up getting the sketch of it all.
OK you might have gone for the picture, the final completed puzzle.
Check: How many pieces have been forced together? This is part of the problem if it fits on one or two sides and you put it in, but it was a stretch really.
Rob.
Lesson 1:- The 'puzzle' can never be completed .... most Earth-like planets occurred some 2 billion years ago;- the intelligent life which evolved on these planets and their 'machine' offspring are still hunting a huge amount of those 'missing pieces'.
Moreover;- if the universe is an evolving entity, you'll never ever know the truth, because the 'goal post' is ever changing.
OK you might have gone for the picture, the final completed puzzle.
Check: How many pieces have been forced together? This is part of the problem if it fits on one or two sides and you put it in, but it was a stretch really.
Rob.
Lesson 1:- The 'puzzle' can never be completed .... most Earth-like planets occurred some 2 billion years ago;- the intelligent life which evolved on these planets and their 'machine' offspring are still hunting a huge amount of those 'missing pieces'.
Moreover;- if the universe is an evolving entity, you'll never ever know the truth, because the 'goal post' is ever changing.
Lession 2;- Most life in our universe is nothing like us, and "Earth-like" planets do not apply!
What makes it a little more fun is that we don't consider 'empty space' to be "nothing". It's something, empty space. "Nothing" is mostly theoretical, the space within a one-dimensional point (i.e., none).
QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth+Jan 1 2012, 05:17 PM)
Lession 2;- Most life in our universe is nothing like us, and "Earth-like" planets do not apply!
You made me feel like a kid reading a pop up book. I turned a page and one thing popped out "Lesson 1". I turned another page and there was "lesson 2". But the objects lacked substance.
I'd had gone back to bed, and as I was waking I was thinking "life is a reptile. Sometimes it is a line, the sometimes coiled flat and at other times coiled into a ball."
Now when I write this out, it is like the degrees of freedom or spacial concepts.
I think this "Science Study" is making my mind active. Weird!
You made me feel like a kid reading a pop up book. I turned a page and one thing popped out "Lesson 1". I turned another page and there was "lesson 2". But the objects lacked substance.
I'd had gone back to bed, and as I was waking I was thinking "life is a reptile. Sometimes it is a line, the sometimes coiled flat and at other times coiled into a ball."
Now when I write this out, it is like the degrees of freedom or spacial concepts.
I think this "Science Study" is making my mind active. Weird!
So is it blinking, rotating, is it a like of wave?
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