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conklin

Experts have cut the sea-level rise forecast IF the West Antarctic ice sheet were to collapse due to Global Warming. The forecast has been revised to 10 feet in 500 years, or 0.24 inches per year.*

I recall that a sea-level rise of 20 to 50 feet had been predicted by Al Gore and other Global Warming "experts" (fanatics) within decades. I also recall that the Antarctic ice sheet has been getting thicker, i.e.: not melting.

My advice to people who have been traumatized by Al Gore's dire Global Warming and Sea-Level Rising warnings is to start worrying about their gums.

* Research by U.K. Natural Environment Research Council and the Colorado University Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Science and published in the journal Science 5/15/09.

James T. Conklin
conklin
On Global Warming

Antarctica is a Continent.
Antarctica contains 90% of Earth's ice.
Antarctica average ice thickness is 8,200 feet.

The Arctic is mostly the Arctic Ocean.
The Arctic contains 10% of the Earth's ice.
The Arctic average ice thickness is 8 feet.

Last winter the average thickness of sea ice
over the whole Arctic fell by 0.85 feet (10%).
Arctic ice melting could be caused by undersea volcanoes.

My Conclusion:

Last year, 10% of 10% of Earth's ice melted in the Arctic (1%).
Last year, 100% of 90% of Earth's ice got thicker in Antarctica.

James T. Conklin
conklin
"Farmer's Almanac predicted below-average temperatures for most of the U.S. this winter." (1) It was correct. What? Isn't Global Warming going on?

Al Gore states that Global Warming is going on, and that "There is no debate about that." Al Gore says that Global Warming is an impending man-made disaster. Gore has concluded that Global Warming is caused by man-made carbon dioxide emissions (which include breathing) by means of an esoteric process in the Earth's atmosphere.

CO2 is a tiny component of the Earth's atmosphere... 0.0384%. There is one pound of CO2 in 260 pounds of air. If mankind were to double the CO2 content of the Earth's atmosphere, the CO2 concentration would remain tiny.

Al Gore laments that the Arctic Ocean (North Pole) sea ice has been melting. Gore claims that the Arctic sea ice is melting because of Global Warming. However, Antarctic (South Pole) sea ice has been forming at a record rate: "2007 showed the largest positive anomaly of sea ice in the southern hemisphere since records have been kept starting in 1979. And, 2008 is currently on pace to surpass last year's record." (2)

North Pole, sea ice is melting. South Pole, sea ice is forming at a record rate. Do the math: Global Warming plus Global Cooling equals Global Nothing.

So... Why is Arctic Ocean sea ice melting?

1. Think like a Mechanical Engineer: Heat energy (not temperature) is required to melt sea ice. 144 Btu is required to melt one pound of ice at 32°F and form one pound of water at 32°F. 144 Btu is the latent heat of fusion of water. The latent heat of fusion melts the ice without a change in temperature.

2. Think like Sea Ice: I am a large inaccessible area of sea ice near the North Pole. My average thickness is 11 inches. I have only two sides... air is above me and the Arctic Ocean is below me. I receive a little radiant heat transfer from the Sun above me during half of the year. I receive a little convective heat transfer from the air above me on occasions when the air temperature is over 32°F. I receive convective heat transfer from the ocean below me 24-7-52 when the water temperature exceeds 32°F.

3. Think like the Arctic Ocean: The sea ice above me tries to keep me at about 32°F. The ocean floor below me contains vents and volcanoes issuing lava at 2000°F which heats me at a rate which is unknown to Al Gore because I am inaccessible and covered with ice. (3) (4)

4. Think like a Frozen Shrimp: I am a frozen shrimp. I am almost like a piece of ice. It takes 4 minutes to cook me with 212°F water. It takes over an hour to cook me with 212°F air. Cooking me with hot air is so slow that it makes me stink. Nobody with any sense cooks frozen shrimp with hot air.

5. Think like a Mechanical Engineer: The convective heat transfer coefficient of water is between 50 and 100 times greater than the convective heat transfer coefficient of air. Therefore, about 75 times more heat can be transferred to sea ice from the ocean below than from the air above under the same temperature differential. (5) I cook frozen shrimp with boiling water because water has 75 times the convective heat transfer rate of air.

Arctic Ocean sea ice melting is a paradigm for Occam's razor. (6)

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779

(1) http://www.startribune.com/nation/27331449...L7PQLanchO7DiUX

(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_ice_sheet

(3) http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-724/lavacool.html

(4) http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm

(5) http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/convecti...sfer-d_430.html

(6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
conklin

Now comes the plaintiff, Dr. James Hansen, who has claimed for 20 years that there is a "Global Warming Time Bomb." In 2003, Hansen wrote a paper called Can We Defuse the Global Warming Time Bomb. Read the refrence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen

How credible is Dr. Hansen now?
How credible has Dr. Hansen been?
Evaluate Hansen's dire predictions:

In 1988 (20 years ago) Hansen predicted the effect on Global Warming due to man-made CO2 in a presentation to Congress. http://icecap.us/images/uploads/HANSEN.JPG
Go look at the refrence data. I can't get the chart to print here.

Hansen 'A' (red triangles) is Temperature if man did not control CO2.
Hansen 'C' (yellow dots ) is Temperature if CO2 stayed at 1988 level.

It is 20 years later: HANSEN'S CURVE 'A' WAS WRONG!
HANSEN'S CURVE 'B' WAS WRONG!
HANSEN'S CURVE 'C' WAS WRONG!

Dr. Hansen's "Time Bomb" predictions were ALL wrong. Hansen's predictions were too high. The 12-month average (red curve) has been constant for 5 years and is now heading down (cooling). Where is the Global Warming?

Think like Earth's Atmosphere:

I am the Earth's Atmosphere. I am huge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_a...ensity_and_mass I weigh over 11,025 quadrillion pounds (11,025,000,000,000,000,000 pounds). 78% of me is Nitrogen (N2), and 21% of me is Oxygen (02). I have existed in various forms and compositions for 4,500,000,000 years. The humans learned to fly in me only 105 years ago. I have been temporarily affected by volcanoes and meteor impacts over millions of years; but in the end, I behave exactly as I damn well please. I look down on the puny humans, and I rain on their audacity in believing they can control me.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
conklin
"Undeniable evidence" of global climate change has been presented by the climate change "experts at the National Academy of Sciences" To wit:

"There are ominous signs... Weather patterns have begun to change dramatically... Most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded... Signs of fundamental changes in the world's weather... Evidence in support of these predictions has begun to accumulate massively..."

"The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality."

These are the warnings from: National Academy of Sciences, Dr. Mitchell of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Dr. Kukla of Columbia University, Reid Bryson of University of Wisconsin, and Dr. McQuigg of NOAA Center for Climatic and Environmental Assessment.

Proposed solutions include: "Melting the arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot" in an absurd attempt to warm the Earth.

Source: The Cooling World, Newsweek, April 28, 1975
Read the reference. I Can't print the file here.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
conklin
Global Warming Causing Record Cold Temperatures.
Do not tell me I did not provide data and references.

Canada has been setting MANY record cold temps in 2009.
In some cases by a substantial amount. See details below.

Canada is adjacent to the Arctic Ocean. If Arctic Ocean ice is melting, it is not due to warm Arctic air temperatures. It MAY be due to warm Arctic Ocean water most likely caused by undersea volcanoes.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779


March 12, 2009

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Kindersley Airport -25.5C -19.7C 1989
Cranbrook -16.0C -15.6C 1976


March 11, 2009

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Coronation -35.5C -34.4C 1956
Edmonton Airport -38.3C -30.6C 1970
Lloydminster -32.0C -30.6C 1956C
Cold Lake -36.4C -32.8C 1956
Pincher Creek -31.5C -29.4C 1950
Sundre Airport -33.4C -27.3C 2003
Claresholm -33.2C -26.1C 1962
Waterton Park -33.6C -18.9C 1967


March 10, 2009

British Columbia
Station New Record Old Record Year
Pitt Meadows -5.4C -5.0C 1985
Squamish -7.4C -3.9C 1962
Campbell River -8.4C -5.6C 1969
Kelowna -20.9C -18.9C 1951
Osoyoos -11.4C -5.9C 2006
Princeton -26.6C -22.2C 1951
Sparwood -23.6C -15.1C 2006
Clinton -28.2C* -16.1C 1975
Williams Lake -27.1C -22.8C 1925
Burns Lake -34.4C -30.0C 1956
Chetwynd -36.5C -30.7C 1987

*Monthly record: the lowest March temperature on record for that station.

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Edmonton Airport -42.7C -29.4C 1975
Lloydminster -35.2C -29.2C 1998
Fort McMurray -39.9C -38.3C 1950
Cold Lake -39.6C -31.7C 1956
Slave lake -39.5C -33.9C 1956
Whitecourt Airport -36.4C -35.0C 1950
Peace River Airport -36.6C -33.3C 1951
Edson Airport -38.7C -37.2C 1951
High Level Airport -37.3C -36.0C 1987
Jasper -32.9C -31.7C 1951
Banff -31.3C -28.9C 1951
Waterton Park -25.8C -19.6C 1998
Sundre -32.3C -24.7C 2003
Rocky Mountain House -38.9C -35.6C 1951


Saskatchewan
Station New Record Old Record Year
Key Lake -46.0C -41.0C 1998
Meadow Lake Airport -42.4C -37.3C 1998
Stoney Rapids Airport -42.7C -41.1C 1968
la Ronge -38.5C -33.9C 1998
Assiniboia Airport -33.1C -29.7C 2002
Collins Bay -36.7C -34.0C 2004
Weyburn -32.1C -31.5C 2002
Nipawin Airport -34.0C -33.3C 1933
Elbow -31.8C -30.0C 1998
Watrous East -30.5C -29.7C 1998


Additional Information
Temperature records were broken across Western Canada.
In some cases by a substantial amount. See below for details.

March 12, 2009

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Kindersley Airport -25.5C -19.7C 1989
Cranbrook -16.0C -15.6C 1976


March 11, 2009

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Coronation -35.5C -34.4C 1956
Edmonton Airport -38.3C -30.6C 1970
Lloydminster -32.0C -30.6C 1956C
Cold Lake -36.4C -32.8C 1956
Pincher Creek -31.5C -29.4C 1950
Sundre Airport -33.4C -27.3C 2003
Claresholm -33.2C -26.1C 1962
Waterton Park -33.6C -18.9C 1967


March 10, 2009

British Columbia
Station New Record Old Record Year
Pitt Meadows -5.4C -5.0C 1985
Squamish -7.4C -3.9C 1962
Campbell River -8.4C -5.6C 1969
Kelowna -20.9C -18.9C 1951
Osoyoos -11.4C -5.9C 2006
Princeton -26.6C -22.2C 1951
Sparwood -23.6C -15.1C 2006
Clinton -28.2C* -16.1C 1975
Williams Lake -27.1C -22.8C 1925
Burns Lake -34.4C -30.0C 1956
Chetwynd -36.5C -30.7C 1987

*Monthly record: the lowest March temperature on record for that station.

Alberta
Station New Record Old Record Year
Edmonton Airport -42.7C -29.4C 1975
Lloydminster -35.2C -29.2C 1998
Fort McMurray -39.9C -38.3C 1950
Cold Lake -39.6C -31.7C 1956
Slave lake -39.5C -33.9C 1956
Whitecourt Airport -36.4C -35.0C 1950
Peace River Airport -36.6C -33.3C 1951
Edson Airport -38.7C -37.2C 1951
High Level Airport -37.3C -36.0C 1987
Jasper -32.9C -31.7C 1951
Banff -31.3C -28.9C 1951
Waterton Park -25.8C -19.6C 1998
Sundre -32.3C -24.7C 2003
Rocky Mountain House -38.9C -35.6C 1951


Saskatchewan
Station New Record Old Record Year
Key Lake -46.0C -41.0C 1998
Meadow Lake Airport -42.4C -37.3C 1998
Stoney Rapids Airport -42.7C -41.1C 1968
la Ronge -38.5C -33.9C 1998
Assiniboia Airport -33.1C -29.7C 2002
Collins Bay -36.7C -34.0C 2004
Weyburn -32.1C -31.5C 2002
Nipawin Airport -34.0C -33.3C 1933
Elbow -31.8C -30.0C 1998
Watrous East -30.5C -29.7C 1998


http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/stor...cold_11_03_2009
conklin

Steve Malloy gave a talk about his new book, Green Hell, carried on C-SPAN's Book TV. He operates a web site, www.JunkScience.com, and noted that Al Gore stands to rake in huge sums of money for his green activism, but that when he was testifying before a Senate committee no one asked him about his financial involvement.

When Gore testified before a House committee, Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) did ask him about his involvement with Kleiner Perkins, a top-tier venture capital firm that is emphasizing green energy. http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/14/kleiner-...ors-unheard-of/ Gore admitted he is a partner there, and was incensed and blew off the question as challenging his integrity (?).

Kleiner Perkins has opened itself to new investors, to raise enough new money to tide over its existing investments through the recession.

Al Gore joined KPC&B in 2007. Read about it... http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/11/news/newsm...rtune/index.htm is the first citation you find when Googling "al gore". Part of his enrichment will come from tax credits, so that is money transferred from your pockets to Gore's. The solar firm, AUSRA, backed by KP, is the firm that is contracted to build the FPL solar power plants in Florida.

How many other Global Warming advocates are making money from the Global Warming / Climate Change fiasco? Answer this direct question:

Are YOU in any way making money from Global Warming studies, grants, papers, speeches, committees, investments, or companies involved in so called green technology?

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779

rpenner
(In response to first post on this now merged thread.)
You may be conflating two different figures.
1) Sea level rise due to a specific event
vs.
2) Sea level rise due to all effects.

So until you find a source for both figures, this claim cannot be verified and relied upon. (Ghosts of Mockton!)
conklin
Dozens of emails have asked: What are your references? Where is the data?
All I have is a lot of reports. Maybe they are not "scientific" enough for some.
One thing is apparant: Lots of people simply WANT to believe in Global Warming.

Antarctic ice growing, not shrinking.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global...how/4418558.cms

Why Antarctic ice is growing despite global warming.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1698...al-warming.html

Antarctic Ice Growing, Not Shrinking.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html

The Antarctic Ice Sheet is Growing Thicker.
http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet.htm

Antarctic Ice Is Growing, Not Melting Away, At Davis Station.
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09...059204&from=rss

Antarctic Ice... Climate Change Hoax.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/antarctic-ice/

Antarctic Ice Increasing.
http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2009/04/30/an...ice-increasing/

As arctic ice melts, South Pole ice grows.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0110/p14s01-sten.html

Revealed: Antarctic ice growing, not shrinking.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/17/reve...-not-shrinking/

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
rpenner
Projection.
conklin

It was 1943. My dad had been fighting in the Pacific for two years. We were on food rationing. Gas was rationed, but mom could not drive. The 1939 Buick sat in the garage with a dead battery and a frozen clutch. When we went anywhere, we walked there. We took a wagon when we went to the grocery store. There were no school busses. Kids always walked to school regardless of the distance or the weather. We just had an air raid drill. I was 8 years old and in 3rd grade.

An elderly male substitute teacher came in that day. He took out a test-tube containing a liquid, and he studied it carefully. He announced that the liquid seemed to have a red tint. He asked the class to look at it and see if they saw the red tint. The kids that saw the red tint were praised for their ability to observe. The teacher started talking to the observant kids about how to see the red tint. After a while, half the kids in the class saw the red tint.

Then the teacher told us that he had filled the test-tube with water from the school drinking fountain. The teacher asked: Why should water from the drinking fountain be red? Why should water from the drinking fountain NOT be red?

Finally, the teacher told us never to allow anyone to convince us of something that does not seem to be true… like Global Warming.

The only other lesson that I remember from the 3rd grade was when Dee Moore brought in her tonsils in a jar. I did not see the red tint in the test tube, but I can still see those putrid brown tonsils in the jar.

James T. Conklin
Longwood, FL 32779
buttershug
QUOTE (conklin+May 17 2009, 07:31 PM)
"Farmer's Almanac predicted below-average temperatures for most of the U.S. this winter." (1) It was correct. What? Isn't Global Warming going on?

Climate change AKA Global warming says hotter summers but colder winters.

The positive increase in temperatures in summer are expected to be greater than the decrease in temperatures during the winter leaving a net increase.

This model has been explained since the 70's but it's too complicated for the mass public to understand apparently.
conklin

I am the Guy On The Internet who QUESTIONS Global Warming. rpenner is correct: I am a nut... a 73-year old has-been with nothing to do.

I have lived long enough, however, to have observed the scientific community deviate over some popular notion-of-the-day on several occasions in the past.

Here is a prime example: Remember the "Y2K Problem". The public was suckered. Many scientists were suckered. Many computer scientists suckered the public, and they made millions and millions of dollars as a result. To wit:

It has been 10 years since the initial concern and the eventual over-reaction to the Y2K Problem began. Y2K was going to be a national and global disaster. There were reports that even some kitchen appliances would stop operating. Soldier of Fortune magazine ran an article suggesting the food supplies, fuel, arms and ammunition which should be stockpiled by the survivors to prepare for the anticipated disorder and anarchy which was certain to occur.

I don't recall any of the thousands of computer science experts coming forward to assert the limited magnitude of the Y2K Problem and the unjustified concern, overreaction, and unnecessary expenditure that was taking place... The experts were too busy making money from the Y2K Problem. The total cost of the work done preparing for Y2K is estimated at 300 billion dollars ($300,000,000,000).

Italy did very little to prepare for Y2K and Italy had very little Y2K Problem.
USA spent billions preparing for Y2K and USA had very little Y2K Problem.

In 1975, there was a great concern about the Global Cooling crises.
In 2009, there was a great concern about the Global Warming crises.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Use caution, lads.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779


rpenner
http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2009...mate_skepti.php
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/05/..._literature.php

The original poster is questioning nothing. Instead, the original poster is working a a (possibly unwitting) cog in a propaganda machine which is not fact-based. Same tired distortions, distractions and lies. Denialists of all stripes resort to such tactics because they wish to impose their views upon the universe instead of looking at evidence.

"Knowledge is power; Nature, in order to be commanded must be obeyed." Bacon, 1620.

Let's look at some of these old-fashioned examples of denialism in the rough order in which the original posted re-used them.
magpies
nobody knows or reads what they say...
conklin

I am the Some Guy On the Internet Denies Global Warming... who is a nut.

My thanks to rpenner. You are a good moderator. I did read all of the scienceblogs.com/illconsidered rebuttals to my common Global Warming skeptic arguments.

I will now state something that has never been seen on that website or written by anyone who is making money from the Global Warming Crisis:

I learned many things. I was wrong about several things. Many things that I had claimed were in error or subject to debate. I had been misled about several of my claims. I apologize for diluting the time of rpenner and everyone who is more knowledgeable than myself. BUT, I have not cost the nation any unwarranted concern, perturbation, inconvenience, or money.

"This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man." -- William Shakespeare

I am an engineer not a scientist. As such, I have a practical approach to solving problems. I can discern the futility of separating fly feces from pepper.

I am frustrated by people who do not know the difference between degrees Centigrade and Centigrade degrees, or the difference between temperature and heat, or are oblivious to the laws of thermodynamics, or believe that hydrogen is an obvious and plentiful clean fuel for cars.

rpenner: I did offer a questioning (not denying) evaluation of the ARCTIC ICE MELTING phenomenon. Arctic ice melting, and the poor polar bears, is the most ubiquitous evidence of Global Warming refered to by the media. I observed Arctic ice melting from the standpoint of (1) A Mechanical Engineer, (2) The Sea Ice, (3) The Arctic Ocean, (4) A Frozen Shrimp, and (5) again as a Mechanical Engineer. I then proposed an alternative cause for Arctic Ice Melting.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
conklin
"Global Warming" At A Glance

http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Look.html

The world's temperature is a difficult metric to capture. This webpage provides
6 data charts and 57 data graphs from: UAH MSU | RSS MSU | NCDC | GISTEMP |
Hadley CET | Armagh | Hadley CRUG | Radiosonde balloon | SIDC SSN | and more.

The webpage confirms that the percent of fly feces in the pepper is directly proportional
to the number of data, charts, and graphs required to define it.

"Global Warming" In One Sentence

The single graph which defines Global Warming is
the measured Global Temperature Anomaly vs. Time.

This is the One Sentence which defines Global Warming:

"Global Warming" consists of a positive Temperature Anomaly of
0.5 Centigrade Degrees between 1978 and 2008 (30 years),
or +0.017 Centigrade Degrees per year.

That, people, is equivalent to some fly feces in the pepper.
Plot Global Temp data in degrees rather than tenths of degrees
and Al Gore's hockey stick becomes a broom stick.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779


The Hockey Stick Graph: http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipc...wg1/fig2-20.htm
Note that the data ends in 1999.
buttershug
Personally I think it's safe to say that the global warming on Mars is not manmade.

Is it still warming up?
conklin
The Mars atmosphere is 95.3% CO2.
The temperature at 1.5 Meters from the surface was measured at -17C to -107C.

Mars would not have Global Warming if its atmosphere was 100% CO2.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
rpenner
Thank you for admitting to 'Nut.' Previously this thread was subtitled 'Not yet proven not a Nut' with the default assumption that you were not a nut. But as you prefer the label 'nut' to 'not a nut,' I need no longer tax myself trying to prove the original assumption.

You claim to "not cost the nation any unwarranted concern, perturbation, inconvenience, or money" and yet you adopt the classic tactics of the denialist, the concern troll, and the agitprop. You claim, ludicrously to only ask questions, and yet you spread decade-old lies without even the basic honesty to indicate the source they were copied from. This is a foul in honest debate which is as glaring as an engineer at trial concluding that a load-bearing bridge was properly designed because of (2/5)MR².

"I can discern the futility of separating fly feces from pepper." Moronic use of an American colloquialism by an alleged engineer. Every chemist could do this with chromatography. Every competent engineer could envision an automated spectrographic or other electronic means of discriminating them and subsequently sorting the co-mingled specks. And as a practical matter, the whole purpose of a board of health inspection is to ensure that even in the most rundown restaurant this is not an actual problem. But science quibbles like the ones you bring us with specious facts and silly misconceptions are actual fly specks and not anything like human knowledge of climate change. Scientific theories have to explain all observations within their domain of applicability, and you seem to have trouble with even defining the basics of this domain.

Please demonstrate these alleged arctic undersea volcanoes dumped enough BTUs (or Joules) into the ocean to melt the millions of square kilometers of ice. You propose an invisible cause for a visible effect, when we have a visible, modeled, and consistent cause. Yes, there are some volcanoes, but on the BTU scale they are negligible and not proximate to the melting ice.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/...arctic-sea-ice/
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq.html#volcanoes

Your "Global Warming at a Glance" post once again confuses temperature with climate.

And as for the Hockey Stick graph, published in January 2001, it has data up through 1999 -- how is that important? See Figures 1b and 2.20 of http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipc...tar/wg1/005.htm

But if you want better data, don't rely on 10-year old graphs.

And your Mars post once again confuses temperature with climate with climate change.
conklin

Please do not get unpleasant and offensive, Dr. Robin.
You called me an "alleged engineer". That was not kind.
You went on to explain in detail how you could separate
fly feces from pepper. You are much better than I am.

BUT... You did not and cannot deny the truth of my statement:

"Global Warming" consists of a positive Temperature Anomaly of
0.5 Centigrade Degrees between 1978 and 2008 (30 years),
or +0.017 Centigrade Degrees per year.

This is the definition of the "Global Warming" crisis,
and a paradigm for Occam's razor.

I thought that a moderator was supposed to foster constructive input
and sincere dialogue... not trash a contributor and belittle his input.

Jim Conklin


rpenner
It's my job to water the flowers and pull on the weeds.

You really haven't responded to anything with a fact-based argument.

If you are a HVAC engineer, here's some simple figures for you to chew on:

Now that you have abandoned your dispute of whether global warming exists, you are trying to ridicule the size of the effect. But given the weight of just the atmosphere, the heat capacity of dry air, and the figure you quoted, you are talking of an imbalance of Earth's energy balance of at least 2.6 Terawatts.

But what with water and land heating up as well, the actual number is much higher. (Perhaps some kind soul will look up the number from one of the climate models to tell us.) It's something like the order the entire energy budget of humanity which Wikipedia cites at about 15 TW.

It's still a small fraction of the 174,000 TW of sunlight the Earth intercepts constantly (about half of which is reflected by clouds reducing the amount which hits ground to about 89,000 TW), but as you now admit that the Earth's energy budget is out-of-whack, what possible purpose does it serve to pooh-pooh the magnitude of the figure.

But instead of thinking about what your read about and coming up with reasonable counters, you just copied the most batshit-crazy stuff off the Internet, some of which is a decade old. You don't come across as reasonable. You look like you haven't considered this issue from any angle other than "I don't want to believe it."
conklin
QUOTE
  you just copied the most batshit-crazy stuff off the Internet,
some of which is a decade old. 


Note that all the words in all my posts have been my own words except
when citing, quoting, or naming references.

I scored 90% on the Global Warming Test. Everyone should take it: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

I was not aware that Global Warming may increase nighttime temperatures,
but daytime temperatures will not increase as a result of Global Warming.

Question: Is the following quote just more batshit-crazy stuff off the Internet?

"Generally understood, but rarely publicized is the fact that 95% of the
greenhouse effect is due solely to natural water vapor. Of the remaining 5%,
only 0.2% to 0.3% of the greenhouse effect (depending on whose numbers you use)
is due to emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases from human sources."

The quote above is from: [URL=http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/global_warming.html]

Please, everyone who knows the facts, weigh in on that question.

P.S. "Water vapor" as quoted above is technically incorrect language.
The author is referring to "super-heated steam"... unsaturated H2O gas.

James T. Conklin (not embarrassed to use my name)
rpenner
174,000 TW of sunlight falls onto Earth. While some might be reflected by clouds, all that hits the surface must be re-emitted by blackbody radiation to space for the Earth to be at constant average temperature. But this is currently out of balance by a measurable amount.

Every climate scientist and any chemist or physicist who spends even 15 minutes thinking about it will realize that without a greenhouse effect, the Earth's distance from the sun would render the Earth's average surface temperature at 255 Kelvin, -18 Celsius, 0 Fahrenheit.

Lots of people know that water vapor is a greenhouse gas. But water vapor is also responsible for cloud formation, which cuts the sunlight hitting the Earth's surface by about half. Every chemist or physicist knows that water vapor is chemically water and has an equilibrium amount in the air which is controlled by temperature. You refer to water vapor as 'superheated steam' in the jargon of steam engine engineers but because local conditions of temperature and pressure are changing (weather) the local definition of 'saturated' is subject to change. Since both weather and climate researchers use the water vapor, your attempt to criticize their entire fields is specious and silly.

Carbon dioxide and methane on the other hand do not condense out of Earth's atmosphere at anything like Earth's average surface temperature. Their hydro-, geo- and bio-chemistry proceed at various rates and are proper subjects for scientific study. Those studies indicate that Man has increased the amount of carbon dioxide by about 35%. This drives up global equilibrium temperature, which causes the equilibrium amount of water vapor to rise. So talking about water vapor being a more powerful greenhouse gas is a red herring, since there is no water vapor knob for mankind to twiddle and the discussion is about the CO2 knob.

Daytime temperatures have, do, and will rise due to global warming. Just because the sun is in the sky doesn't mean that the ground isn't still trying radiate heat into space. So on that point your test maker is wrong.

Isolating and pooh-poohing mankind's contribution to CO2 as a percentage of a total global warming effect is specious and unscientific when the 35% increase of CO2 results in more water vapor in the air, and does not address where the final equilibrium climate of Earth will be at. You have conceded that the average temperature is rising, which means this equilibrium is not yet achieved.
conklin
IS "WATER VAPOR" A GREENHOUSE GAS?

QUOTE
You refer to water vapor as 'superheated steam' in the jargon of steam engine engineers but because local conditions of temperature and pressure are changing (weather) the local definition of 'saturated' is subject to change. Since both weather and climate researchers use the water vapor, your attempt to criticize their entire fields is specious and silly.


Webster's Dictionary

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vapor

Vapor: "1: diffused matter (as smoke or fog) suspended floating in the air and impairing its transparency"
____________________

McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Engineering
http://mhprofessional.com/getpage.php?c=en...CFQZeswodsFrK3A

Vapor: "A gas at a temperature below the critical temperature, so that it can be liquefied by compression, without lowering the temperature."
____________________

Water Phase Changes:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/phase.html

The Temperature vs. Enthalpy graph for Water shows how water is transformed from a liquid into a gas by the addition of heat. The process of transforming water from a liquid to a gas is called vaporization. As a Mechanical Engineer, in school and in practice, I was taught to refer to water during the process of vaporization as transforming from liquid water to water vapor (wet steam) to saturated steam to super-heated steam (dry steam).

"Water Vapor", by its engineering definition, is a mixture of liquid and gas. Example: Clouds.

James T. Conklin, P.E.
Longwood, FL 32779
rpenner
That's pathetic. Dictionaries don't define words, they give examples of how words have been used.

In both weather and climate jargons, water vapor is a term of art -- jargon specific to those fields. Looking up water and vapor separately is not always helpful in deciphering a term of art.

QUOTE
water vapor
Water in its gaseous state, especially in the atmosphere and at a temperature below the boiling point. Water vapor in the atmosphere serves as the raw material for cloud and rain formation. It also helps regulate the Earth's temperature by reflecting and scattering radiation from the Sun and by absorbing the Earth's infrared radiation. See also vapor.

The American Heritage® Science Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


And you know you are being unhelpful because definition 2a of your Webster source above is "a substance in the gaseous state as distinguished from the liquid or solid state"

So you've gone from denial of the existence of man-made global warming to pooh-poohing it's importance to witless pettifoggery and dictionary abuse. You present us with sub-standard evidence as if that was going to contradict the consensus opinion which is based on all the evidence. In short, the universe does not conform to your position.

So why do you even have a position?
conklin

IS "WATER VAPOR" A GREENHOUSE GAS?

QUOTE
Water vapor in the atmosphere serves as the raw material for cloud and rain formation. It also helps regulate the Earth's temperature by reflecting and scattering radiation from the Sun and by absorbing the Earth's infrared radiation.


Thank you, rpenner, you pulled too hard on this "weed".
In your haste to belittle me, you have proved my point with your own words.

You said it: WATER VAPOR IS NOT A GREENHOUSE GAS. IT IS CLOUDS.

James T. Conklin (Proud to use my name.)
AlexG
QUOTE
You said it: WATER VAPOR IS NOT A GREENHOUSE GAS. IT IS CLOUDS.


Where did rpenner say that water vapor is not a greenhouse gas?

Where does it say the two are mutually exclusive?

If it reflects and scatters sunlight in the atmosphere and absorbes infrared, it's a greenhouse gas.
rpenner
Pettifoggery: U R DOIN IT RONG!
conklin
Summing Up On What Is "Water Vapor"

My engineering practices are Pettifoggery. [Moderator: Since engineering and non-climate-science dictionary definitions of 'water vapor' need not apply to the use of the term within climate science, yes. Since your first source also defined vapor as gas (def 2a), then this was considered a FAIL in the vernacular of PWND/FAIL l33t speak.]
Global Warming science is Art. [Moderator: 'Term of art' has a definition in law, A word or phrase that has special meaning in a particular context. (West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2.) FAIL]

In Oceania, the dictionary was continually revised by the Party. Until...
War became Peace.
Freedom became Slavery.
Ignorance became Strength. [Moderator: Exactly what you are doing.]

After 10 years in the aerospace industry in rocket propulsion,
I worked 30 years in the sewer rehabilitation industry.
Yes, I got my hands dirty... very and often.
You can have the last word. Mock me. [Moderator: Our average reader is already astute enough to obviate the need for me to do so. But I have not mocked you. I have taken your outrageous stance as an agitprop quite seriously. It's what you say that I mock, because what you say is irrational and not fact-based.]

James T. Conklin [Moderator: Who can't even be bothered to explain the basis for his actions. Who lies when he suggests he is here just to ask questions. Who has not yet once given a demonstration of why his engineering background gives him any insight whatsoever into the global climate.]
MisterBelfry
This is thread titled, "Some Guy On the Internet Denies Global Warming" on forum= 22.



Statistics Needed

The Deniers -- Part I

Lawrence Solomon, Financial Post – Canada

Published: Tuesday, November 28, 2006
In the global warming debate, there are essentially two broad camps. One believes that the science is settled, that global warming is serious and man-made, and that urgent action must be taken to mitigate or prevent a future calamity. The other believes that the science is far from settled, that precious little is known about global warming or its likely effects, and that prudence dictates more research and caution before intervening massively in the economy.

The "science is settled" camp, much the larger of the two, includes many eminent scientists with impressive credentials. But just who are the global warming skeptics who question the studies from the great majority of climate scientists and what are their motives?



Many in the "science is settled" camp claim that the skeptics are untrustworthy -- that they are either cranks or otherwise at the periphery of their profession, or that they are in the pockets of Exxon or other corporate interests. The skeptics are increasingly being called Deniers, a term used by analogy to the Holocaust, to convey the catastrophe that could befall mankind if action is not taken. Increasingly, too, the press is taking up the Denier theme, convincing the public that the global-warming debate is over.



In this, the first of a series, I examine The Deniers, starting with Edward Wegman. Dr. Wegman is a professor at the Center for Computational Statistics at George Mason University, chair of the National Academy of Sciences' Committee on Applied and Theoretical Statistics, and board member of the American Statistical Association. Few statisticians in the world have CVs to rival his (excerpts appear nearby).



Wegman became involved in the global-warming debate after the energy and commerce committee of the U.S. House of Representatives asked him to assess one of the hottest debates in the global-warming controversy: the statistical validity of work by Michael Mann. You may not have heard of Mann or read Mann's study but you have often heard its famous conclusion: that the temperature increases that we have been experiencing are "likely to have been the largest of any century during the past 1,000 years" and that the "1990s was the warmest decade and 1998 the warmest year" of the millennium. You may have also heard of Mann's hockey-stick shaped graph, which showed relatively stable temperatures over most of the last millennium (the hockey stick's long handle), followed by a sharp increase (the hockey stick's blade) this century.



Mann's findings were arguably the single most influential study in swaying the public debate, and in 2001 they became the official view of the International Panel for Climate Change, the UN body that is organizing the worldwide effort to combat global warming. But Mann's work also had its critics, particularly two Canadians, Steve McIntyre and Ross McKitrick, who published peer-reviewed critiques of their own.



Wegman accepted the energy and commerce committee's assignment, and agreed to assess the Mann controversy pro bono. He conducted his third-party review by assembling an expert panel of statisticians, who also agreed to work pro bono. Wegman also consulted outside statisticians, including the Board of the American Statistical Association. At its conclusion, the Wegman review entirely vindicated the Canadian critics and repudiated Mann's work.



"Our committee believes that the assessments that the decade of the 1990s was the hottest decade in a millennium and that 1998 was the hottest year in a millennium cannot be supported," Wegman stated, adding that "The paucity of data in the more remote past makes the hottest-in-a-millennium claims essentially unverifiable." When Wegman corrected Mann's statistical mistakes, the hockey stick disappeared.



Wegman found that Mann made a basic error that "may be easily overlooked by someone not trained in statistical methodology. We note that there is no evidence that Dr. Mann or any of the other authors in paleoclimate studies have had significant interactions with mainstream statisticians." Instead, this small group of climate scientists were working on their own, largely in isolation, and without the academic scrutiny needed to ferret out false assumptions.



Worse, the problem also applied more generally, to the broader climate-change and meteorological community, which also relied on statistical techniques in their studies. "[I]f statistical methods are being used, then statisticians ought to be funded partners engaged in the research to insure as best we possibly can that the best quality science is being done," Wegman recommended, noting that "there are a host of fundamental statistical questions that beg answers in understanding climate dynamics."



In other words, Wegman believes that much of the climate science that has been done should be taken with a grain of salt -- although the studies may have been peer reviewed, the reviewers were often unqualified in statistics. Past studies, he believes, should be reassessed by competent statisticians and in future, the climate science world should do better at incorporating statistical know-how.



One place to start is with the American Meteorological Society, which has a committee on probability and statistics. "I believe it is amazing for a committee whose focus is on statistics and probability that of the nine members only two are also members of the American Statistical Association, the premier statistical association in the United States, and one of those is a recent PhD with an assistant-professor appointment in a medical school." As an example of the statistical barrenness of the climate-change world, Wegman cited the American Meteorological Association's 2006 Conference on Probability and Statistics in the Atmospheric Sciences, where only eight presenters out of 62 were members of the American Statistical Association.



While Wegman's advice -- to use trained statisticians in studies reliant on statistics -- may seem too obvious to need stating, the "science is settled" camp resists it. Mann's hockey-stick graph may be wrong, many experts now acknowledge, but they assert that he nevertheless came to the right conclusion.



To which Wegman, and doubtless others who want more rigourous science, shake their heads in disbelief. As Wegman summed it up to the energy and commerce committee in later testimony: "I am baffled by the claim that the incorrect method doesn't matter because the answer is correct anyway. Method Wrong + Answer Correct = Bad Science." With bad science, only true believers can assert that they nevertheless obtained the right answer.



Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Urban Renaissance Institute and Consumer Policy Institute, divisions of Energy Probe Research Foundation.

Email: Lawrence Solomon@nextcity.com.



THE CV OF A DENIER

Edward Wegman received his Ph.D. degree in mathematical statistics from the University of Iowa. In 1978, he went to the Office of Naval Research, where he headed the Mathematical Sciences Division with responsibility Navy-wide for basic research programs. He coined the phrase computational statistics, and developed a high-profile research area around this concept, which focused on techniques and methodologies that could not be achieved without the capabilities of modern computing resources and led to a revolution in contemporary statistical graphics. Dr. Wegman was the original program director of the basic research program in Ultra High Speed Computing at the Strategic Defense Initiative's Innovative Science and Technology Office. He has served as editor or associate editor of numerous prestigious journals and has published more than 160 papers and eight books.

[The original storyline[s] is given as www.canada.com/]

The above 'Denier' profile has been{at least stored} on my computer since Sunday, July 08, 2007. Yesterday, I did a little follow-up...

www.aviso.oceanobs.com/en/missions/future-missions/cryosat/index.html
first satellite Cryosat was lost on launch, on October 8, 2005, due to an anomaly in the launch sequence. A replacement will be launched in November 2009.

More information on the mission (Esa website)
MisterBelfry
QUOTE
[The original storyline[s] is given as www.canada.com/]

The above 'Denier' profile...  Yesterday, I did a little follow-up...
Whoops...wrong part number. This is the one I followed up to find if the satellite mentioned had already launched. Evidently no,

Launch on 2009/11/16
End Date "three-and-a half-year mission"
Altitude 717 km
Inclination 92°
Repetitivity 369 days with 30 day sub-cycle



Polar Scientists On Thin Ice

The Deniers -- Part IV

Lawrence Solomon, Financial Post – Canada

Published: Friday, December 15, 2006


A great melt is on in Antarctica. Its northern peninsula -- a jut of land extending to about 1,200 kilometres from Chile -- has seen a drastic increase in temperature, a thinning of ice sheets and, most alarmingly, a collapse of ice shelves. The Larsen A ice shelf, 1,600 square kilometres in size, fell off in 1995. The Wilkins ice shelf, 1,100 square kilometres, fell off in 1998 and the Larsen B, 13,500 square kilometres, dropped off in 2002. Meanwhile, the northern Antarctic Peninsula's temperatures have soared by six degrees celsius in the last 50 years.


Antarctica represents the greatest threat to the globe from global warming, bar none. If Antarctica's ice melts, the world's oceans will rise, flooding low-lying lands where much of the world's population lives. Not only would their mass migration spawn hardships for the individual families retreating from the rising waters, the world would also be losing fertile deltas that feed tens of millions of people. This chilling scenario understandably sends shudders through concerned citizens around the world, and steels the resolve of those determined to stop the cataclysm of global warming.


But much confounding evidence exists. As one example, at the South Pole, where the U.S. decades ago established a station, temperatures have actually fallen since 1957. Neither is Antarctica's advance or retreat a new question raised by the spectre of global warming: This is the oldest scientific question of all about the Antarctic ice sheet.


Enter Duncan Wingham, Professor of Climate Physics at University College London and Director of the Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling. Dr. Wingham has been pursuing this polar puzzle for much of his professional life and, but for an accident in space, he might have had the answer at hand by now.


Dr. Wingham is Principal Scientist of the European Space Agency's CryoSat Satellite Mission, a $130-million project designed to map changes in the depth of ice using ultra-precise instrumentation. Sadly for Dr. Wingham and for science as a whole, CryoSat fell into the Arctic Ocean after its launch in October, 2005, when a rocket launcher malfunctioned. Dr Wingham will now need to wait until 2009 before CryoSat-2, CryoSat's even more precise successor, can launch and begin relaying the data that should conclusively determine whether Antarctica's ice sheets are thinning or not. Apart from satellite technology, no known way exists to reliably determine changes in mass over a vast and essentially unexplorable continent covered in ice several kilometres thick.


But CryoSat was not the only satellite available to polar scientists. Dr. Wingham has been collecting satellite data for years, and arriving at startling conclusions. Early last year at a European Union Space Conference in Brussels, for example, Dr. Wingham revealed that data from a European Space Agency satellite showed Antarctic thinning was no more common than thickening, and concluded that the spectacular collapse of the ice shelves on the Antarctic Peninsula was much more likely to have followed natural current fluctuations than global warming.


"The Antarctic Peninsula is exceptional because it juts out so far north," Dr. Wingham told the press at the time. As well, scientists have been drawn to the peninsula because it is relatively accessible and its climate is moderate, allowing it to be more easily studied than the harsh interior of the continent. Because many scientists have been preoccupied with what was, in effect, the tip of the iceberg, they missed the mass of evidence that lay beneath the surface.


"One cannot be certain, because packets of heat in the atmosphere do not come conveniently labelled 'the contribution of anthropogenic warming,' " Dr. Wingham elaborated, but the evidence is not "favourable to the notion we are seeing the results of global warming".


Last summer, Dr. Wingham and three colleagues published an article in the journal of the Royal Society that casts further doubt on the notion that global warming is adversely affecting Antarctica. By studying satellite data from 1992 to 2003 that surveyed 85% of the East Antarctic ice sheet and 51% of the West Antarctic ice sheet (72% of the ice sheet covering the entire land mass), they discovered that the Antarctic ice sheet is growing at the rate of 5 millimetres per year (plus or minus 1 mm per year). That makes Antarctica a sink, not a source, of ocean water. According to their best estimates, Antarctica will "lower [authors' italics] global sea levels by 0.08 mm" per year.


If these findings are validated in future by CryoSat-2 and other developments that are able to assess the 28% of Antarctica not yet surveyed, the low-lying areas of the world will have weathered the worst of the global warming predictions: The populations of these areas -- in Bangladesh, in the Maldives, and elsewhere -- will have found that, if anything, they can look forward to a future with more nutrient-rich seacoast, not less.

Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Urban Renaissance Institute and Consumer Policy Institute, divisions of Energy Probe Research Foundation.
Email: Lawrence Solomon@nextcity.com.

CV OF A DENIER:

Duncan Wingham was educated at Leeds and Bath Universities where he gained a B.Sc. and PhD. in Physics. He was appointed to a chair in the Department of Space and Climate Physics in 1996, and to head of the Department of Earth Sciences in October, 2005. Prof. Wingham is a member of the National Environmental Research Council's Science and Technology Board and Earth Observation Experts Group. He is a director of the NERC Centre for Polar Observation & Modelling and principal scientist of the European Space Agency CryoSat Satellite Mission, the first ESA Earth Sciences satellite selected through open, scientific competition.
lzurha
well the planet is 4.5 billion years old we have had ice ages an shifts in weather before.

global warming is possible i guess but tis could just be the planets natural course
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