QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Oct 15 2008, 10:23 PM)
Ok, Ok, I believe you, now what?
lets play pretend. you and me are the majority. we do the boycott of sony and polyphony digital until their finances, and the finances of any backers are affected. Any company is just a collection of money, affect this money and they will do what you tell them.
we do the boycott long enough that they have to show the proof. you see this proof and follow the process. Then you make up your own mind on wether you believe what I witnessed.
When you see whats there you will see that I wouldnt lie about it and gain an understanding of why I am so incoherent and bitter and of how important this is.
Colm.
lets play pretend. you and me are the majority. we do the boycott of sony and polyphony digital until their finances, and the finances of any backers are affected. Any company is just a collection of money, affect this money and they will do what you tell them.
we do the boycott long enough that they have to show the proof. you see this proof and follow the process. Then you make up your own mind on wether you believe what I witnessed.
When you see whats there you will see that I wouldnt lie about it and gain an understanding of why I am so incoherent and bitter and of how important this is.
Colm.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 15 2008, 10:31 PM)
you would never in a million years have the balls to call me an idiot to my face. I have noticed that during this process and over the last 6 months that when people can pass comments without any fear of immediate consequences they always over step their mark.
You threating me, you idiot?
Over stepping my mark, hmm? Unfortunately for you, blockhead, you don't have a shred of real evidence for your claims. Just ramblings. And ramblings aren't proof.
You're an idiot, plain and simple. And I won't hesitate to call you one should we ever meet face to face.
You threating me, you idiot? Over stepping my mark, hmm? Unfortunately for you, blockhead, you don't have a shred of real evidence for your claims. Just ramblings. And ramblings aren't proof.
You're an idiot, plain and simple. And I won't hesitate to call you one should we ever meet face to face.
QUOTE (TheDoc+Oct 15 2008, 10:38 PM)
You threating me, you idiot? Over stepping my mark, hmm? Unfortunately for you, blockhead, you don't have a shred of real evidence for your claims. Just ramblings. And ramblings aren't proof.
You're an idiot, plain and simple. And I won't hesitate to call you one should we ever meet face to face.
No. Where's the threat? I was stating a fact. Call me an idiot all you like. Who knows you might even have the balls to say it to my face but you wouldnt be able to say much for a long time after.
later.
QUOTE (Capracus+Oct 15 2008, 09:22 PM)
Apparently you didn't take my answer seriously. Sad.
Read it again and consider your options.
please try this.
There were breakthroughs over the first 6 months accounting for very fast movement on the steering wheel. Imagine losing grip in a real car. Professional drivers would have an average speed of 30mph of reacting to this.
When I began to use the video game, when I reacted at this speed, it had no effect. They had to design a system that would account for this very detailed and fast movement.
The code that finally wouldnt break under this input was a breakthrough. This started the ball rolling so to speak and the mathematics involved were very progressive.
Then the whole physics engine was redesigned and they used me as the tester. Then the japanese mathematician got involved. All was good and normal. The code was developed so it could move and be acted upon.
I brought it to a speed...
Can you follow me that far? Forget about C, forget about the proof. Just that little bit?
Read it again and consider your options.
please try this.
There were breakthroughs over the first 6 months accounting for very fast movement on the steering wheel. Imagine losing grip in a real car. Professional drivers would have an average speed of 30mph of reacting to this.
When I began to use the video game, when I reacted at this speed, it had no effect. They had to design a system that would account for this very detailed and fast movement.
The code that finally wouldnt break under this input was a breakthrough. This started the ball rolling so to speak and the mathematics involved were very progressive.
Then the whole physics engine was redesigned and they used me as the tester. Then the japanese mathematician got involved. All was good and normal. The code was developed so it could move and be acted upon.
I brought it to a speed...
Can you follow me that far? Forget about C, forget about the proof. Just that little bit?
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 15 2008, 06:42 PM)
Forget about C,
No. Let's don't.
You claim to have moved at light speed and your hand turned into light.
This is ludicrous. If you believe this - you are delusional.
No. Let's don't.
You claim to have moved at light speed and your hand turned into light.
This is ludicrous. If you believe this - you are delusional.
VDchile
Sounds like you're talking about a video game. Virtual reality is not reality.
As to you physically reaching the speed of light, it is not possible, it would require all the energy in the universe to do that(it's all relative), I didn't even notice the lights dimming!!!
So you are asking us to believe you saw god in a video game, and you think that's not crazy??? RIIIGHT!
You're a loon, a crackpot on a crack pipe, a Jesus freak with the emphasis on the freak. How could we possibly take you seriously???
Grumpy
Sounds like you're talking about a video game. Virtual reality is not reality.
As to you physically reaching the speed of light, it is not possible, it would require all the energy in the universe to do that(it's all relative), I didn't even notice the lights dimming!!!
So you are asking us to believe you saw god in a video game, and you think that's not crazy??? RIIIGHT!
You're a loon, a crackpot on a crack pipe, a Jesus freak with the emphasis on the freak. How could we possibly take you seriously???
Grumpy
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 15 2008, 01:20 PM)
That response from you is exactly why I ain't shifting from here till balance has been achieved.:-))
You go on about me being banned for being nasty. Ok, mirroman swore and expressed anger at the bullying tactics and arrogant bleats from the likes of you, Grumpy, NOM and a few other mafiosi. You seem to have such a fixed opinion about my "nasty" behaviour. But I have never seen you get critical of the real nasties around here. Conclusion? This is just Occidental, part of the psych out crew. Well carry on. But carry on as a disgrace to real scientific attitude buddy.
Again, you bypass your collegues nasty feedback remark, and every other nasty remark he makes. He doesn't get it back as much as he deserves, because the difference between me and him is that if he refrains from his nasty remarks I will be as friendly to him as is necessary. Remember that differnece Occidental. I got you and your mates sussed. The illusion can happen at places like here. You wouldn't have the guts to carry on this conversation with a real group of people in real life.
I dont even know what your opening sentence means. The rest is more revisionist history thats just silly. I still dont understand why you take it all so seriously. I have said this before and Ill say it again. Lui, you make me laugh. A lot. Like out loud for real.
Sometimes I share what you write with other people because I think its so funny. They think its funny too. The whole thing over at bfn, now with you trying to talk like an adult about the "concrete core", crap Im pissing myself laughing right now just thinking about it. Youre a walking comedy act. You got banned from a science forum, then came back under a different name, but pretended you werent the same person? Because? And you did that over, and over and over. And over. Literally. OM I cant stop laughing. You wrote a book... im laughing too hard to go there right now. Your accusations and characterizations are funny. my collegues and i are sussed. thats funny. Youre blatant hypocrisy is funny. I dont even know what youre talking about half the time. It doesnt matter to me what someone else said to you or about you or whatever. Its your goofball replies and wacky comments that just crack me up.
You should lighten up, Lui. You probably wont be as funny, but you might be happier.
I hope that helps. Carry on.
You go on about me being banned for being nasty. Ok, mirroman swore and expressed anger at the bullying tactics and arrogant bleats from the likes of you, Grumpy, NOM and a few other mafiosi. You seem to have such a fixed opinion about my "nasty" behaviour. But I have never seen you get critical of the real nasties around here. Conclusion? This is just Occidental, part of the psych out crew. Well carry on. But carry on as a disgrace to real scientific attitude buddy.
Again, you bypass your collegues nasty feedback remark, and every other nasty remark he makes. He doesn't get it back as much as he deserves, because the difference between me and him is that if he refrains from his nasty remarks I will be as friendly to him as is necessary. Remember that differnece Occidental. I got you and your mates sussed. The illusion can happen at places like here. You wouldn't have the guts to carry on this conversation with a real group of people in real life.
I dont even know what your opening sentence means. The rest is more revisionist history thats just silly. I still dont understand why you take it all so seriously. I have said this before and Ill say it again. Lui, you make me laugh. A lot. Like out loud for real.
Sometimes I share what you write with other people because I think its so funny. They think its funny too. The whole thing over at bfn, now with you trying to talk like an adult about the "concrete core", crap Im pissing myself laughing right now just thinking about it. Youre a walking comedy act. You got banned from a science forum, then came back under a different name, but pretended you werent the same person? Because? And you did that over, and over and over. And over. Literally. OM I cant stop laughing. You wrote a book... im laughing too hard to go there right now. Your accusations and characterizations are funny. my collegues and i are sussed. thats funny. Youre blatant hypocrisy is funny. I dont even know what youre talking about half the time. It doesnt matter to me what someone else said to you or about you or whatever. Its your goofball replies and wacky comments that just crack me up.
You should lighten up, Lui. You probably wont be as funny, but you might be happier.
I hope that helps. Carry on.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 15 2008, 10:36 PM)
lets play pretend. you and me are the majority. we do the boycott of sony and polyphony digital until their finances, and the finances of any backers are affected. Any company is just a collection of money, affect this money and they will do what you tell them.
we do the boycott long enough that they have to show the proof. you see this proof and follow the process. Then you make up your own mind on wether you believe what I witnessed.
When you see whats there you will see that I wouldnt lie about it and gain an understanding of why I am so incoherent and bitter and of how important this is.
Colm.
That's your plan? Your kidding right?
Do you think that there are enough sufficiently gullible folks who could mount an effective boycott? look how long it took you to convince me, and I'm only pretending! Then again, there ain't much concerning the stupidity of some people that surprises me anymore, perhaps it's not such a bad idea. Good luck.
we do the boycott long enough that they have to show the proof. you see this proof and follow the process. Then you make up your own mind on wether you believe what I witnessed.
When you see whats there you will see that I wouldnt lie about it and gain an understanding of why I am so incoherent and bitter and of how important this is.
Colm.
That's your plan? Your kidding right?
Do you think that there are enough sufficiently gullible folks who could mount an effective boycott? look how long it took you to convince me, and I'm only pretending!
Then again, there ain't much concerning the stupidity of some people that surprises me anymore, perhaps it's not such a bad idea. Good luck.QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 14 2008, 03:47 PM)
I wish I had your patience. Usually I spot an idiot right away and nip it, aggressively, in the bud. Waiting, educating and taking the high road is a much better approach, albeit time consuming.
"The fact that the Title of this thread is something about Scientific Proof of God...is a mistake i would reckon...maybe that was the first mistake on OP's part."
No its not.
"The second being that he trusted anyone to treat him with honor"
Yes it was.
"a few of us will"
about 6.
"The worst mistake I suppose. is his thinking that anyone will go out of their way to investigate this by the almost archaic (to some minds) letter writing campaign..."
Think of what I'm saying. It is worth a lot more than going out of your way. Also, I have informed the majority of the planet through this archaic means. If you were in my situation what would you do?
Thanks for improving the civility.
When I saw God, I related it telepathically to the whole world over months...let me tell you, that too, has it's flaws. Many misunderstood me, and many were not ready to recieve the message back then. In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about people seeing God. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
"The fact that the Title of this thread is something about Scientific Proof of God...is a mistake i would reckon...maybe that was the first mistake on OP's part."
No its not.
"The second being that he trusted anyone to treat him with honor"
Yes it was.
"a few of us will"
about 6.
"The worst mistake I suppose. is his thinking that anyone will go out of their way to investigate this by the almost archaic (to some minds) letter writing campaign..."
Think of what I'm saying. It is worth a lot more than going out of your way. Also, I have informed the majority of the planet through this archaic means. If you were in my situation what would you do?
Thanks for improving the civility.
When I saw God, I related it telepathically to the whole world over months...let me tell you, that too, has it's flaws. Many misunderstood me, and many were not ready to recieve the message back then. In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about people seeing God. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
QUOTE (tikay+Oct 16 2008, 03:39 AM)
In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about people seeing God. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
Do you mean; as evolved as you?
Do you mean; as evolved as you?
QUOTE (tikay+Oct 16 2008, 03:39 AM)
In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about people seeing God. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about God not existing. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about God not existing. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 16 2008, 12:49 AM)
No. Let's don't.
You claim to have moved at light speed and your hand turned into light.
This is ludicrous. If you believe this - you are delusional.
Thats what happened. It had to happen in order for me to be fast enough to make that decision. I am perfectly aware of what I'm saying. I KNOW HOW IT SOUNDS. The fact that your having trouble believing it doesnt change the fact that it happened.
For what its worth, I couldnt believe it myself for months. Only when the environment of light was created did I believe it. When I made it perfect it was exactly the same as what I saw. NO COINCIDENCE.
Its a lot to believe but what I'm talking about is just sitting there waiting for you to see it.
You claim to have moved at light speed and your hand turned into light.
This is ludicrous. If you believe this - you are delusional.
Thats what happened. It had to happen in order for me to be fast enough to make that decision. I am perfectly aware of what I'm saying. I KNOW HOW IT SOUNDS. The fact that your having trouble believing it doesnt change the fact that it happened.
For what its worth, I couldnt believe it myself for months. Only when the environment of light was created did I believe it. When I made it perfect it was exactly the same as what I saw. NO COINCIDENCE.
Its a lot to believe but what I'm talking about is just sitting there waiting for you to see it.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Oct 16 2008, 03:11 AM)
That's your plan? Your kidding right?
Do you think that there are enough sufficiently gullible folks who could mount an effective boycott? look how long it took you to convince me, and I'm only pretending! Then again, there ain't much concerning the stupidity of some people that surprises me anymore, perhaps it's not such a bad idea. Good luck.
please write an open minded reply to this.
Do you think you would benefit from seeing what I'm talking about?
Do you think you would benifit scientifically from what I'm talking about? (assuming that because you are on a science forum you are good with numbers)
Do you think that if this proof exists, it would be relevant to you?
Can you see that this is not for my benefit?
Do you think that there are enough sufficiently gullible folks who could mount an effective boycott? look how long it took you to convince me, and I'm only pretending!
Then again, there ain't much concerning the stupidity of some people that surprises me anymore, perhaps it's not such a bad idea. Good luck. please write an open minded reply to this.
Do you think you would benefit from seeing what I'm talking about?
Do you think you would benifit scientifically from what I'm talking about? (assuming that because you are on a science forum you are good with numbers)
Do you think that if this proof exists, it would be relevant to you?
Can you see that this is not for my benefit?
QUOTE (tikay+Oct 16 2008, 03:39 AM)
When I saw God, I related it telepathically to the whole world over months...let me tell you, that too, has it's flaws. Many misunderstood me, and many were not ready to recieve the message back then. In fact, folks still are basically "Not Ready" to hear about people seeing God. Give them a few hundred years...I am counting on some evolution by then.
It could work out now. Its just that there are some sad, fearful, little people involved who are directly interfering with what I'm trying to, and what I have to, relate.
It could work out now. Its just that there are some sad, fearful, little people involved who are directly interfering with what I'm trying to, and what I have to, relate.
Hello. Between March 2007 and March 2008 I was involved in testing a physics engine with a Japanese company called Polyphony Digital who make a driving simulator called Gran Turismo. This process intended to make a virtual car drive according to the laws of physics just as it would in reality. During this process a Japanese mathematician who was hired by Polyphony Digital developed a type of code that was intended to predict how the grip would behave while it was lost. This code was developed even further after I did a large amount of testing that made it “solid”. This was a major breakthrough for science and mathematics that blurred the line between the virtual and physical world.
As this code was solid, it could move and be acted upon. They developed a system in which I could increase the speed that this code was running. It started off very slowly and was quite easy to beat. I just had to make as many decisions as I could over a short time. After a week I had increased the speed to just below the speed of light © and it was very difficult to keep up. I lost my temper with it and gave it one last serious effort. As this was happening my arm became light. I needed to move at C, to beat the code, which was running just below C. By the time I looked away from my arm, all the matter around me had become light. It was like an explosion that travelled outwards and then came back at me. When it came back, there was nothing but light all around me. The light proceeded to show me it was conscious, infinite, alive and powerful. It then drew my attention to my left where there was somebody sitting down who resembled Jesus. I looked at this person and this person looked at me. I asked “who are you” and at that time the light returned the way it came. For a long time I doubted if this had even happened.
After this code was brought to C it had expanded and become a 3D object. I essentially gave birth to this thing and over the next 5 months I got to know it and find it’s weak points. I repeatedly broke it and each time they managed to make it stronger until it was unbreakable. As I couldn’t do anything more with it I suggested that they assume there is only light because that is what I saw earlier. They managed to make this theory work and created an environment made out of light that represented what I saw, which is the 5th dimension. This was confirmation of seeing the light and that there is dimension of light all around us, travelling at a speed our minds can’t perceive. I perceived it because I managed to think and move accurately at C for a short time.
I had developed such an understanding of this code through breaking it and working with it that I was able to manipulate it. This grew into an eventual ability to make this environment perfect. I managed to draw to physically draw the code from where it was being introduced into the system and finished the code making it perfect. So it is now exactly what I saw at C, complete mathematical perfection, and God’s image.
As the code was working at C it facilitated mathematical equations at C. This made it possible to conduct a test that found the points of inertia within the car. This had to be done practically by me and I found every point. These points made up a 3D mathematical cross and it left the physicists with a cross which needed to be employed somewhere. There was a field found around the car by one of the physicists. The cross was found to go above the car on top of this field. I then suggested there may be a halo around this field as this system was starting to look that way. This worked and another physicist found that the weight of the car was shaped like a pair of balls.
This system was confirmation that the person sitting in the light was Jesus Christ. This system symbolises what it took for him to go through with the crucifixion. I was 90% sure it was him at the time but it would have been an assumption based on the fact that there was no cross and I didn’t get an answer to my question. I’m not a religious person and I had no faith so the observations I made were objective not subjective.
During this process coincidences were noticed regarding Ayrton Senna. He was a deeply religious person and wore shamrocks on his helmet from the year after I was born. The Polyphony Digital people used these coincidences to portray that he knew I was alive and I was meant to find this proof. Various people were invited to observe this process on this premise. In particular Mr. Honda. A big deal was made about his being there. Much face was at risk! (whatever that may be) Executives from all the major Japanese car manufacturers were invited to observe. Also individuals connected with Gran Turismo observed this process namely Jeremy Clarkson and Stephen Hawking who was attracted by mathematics travelling at C. I am naming these people because they gave me good reason. I will continue to name the rest if they remain sitting on the fence. To deny this proof is to deny God, Jesus and me. I almost regret naming these people personally but I have been hung out to dry after providing all of this.
I am suggesting a boycott of Sony and Polyphony Digital so that they have to show the proof now and so that anybody who can contribute to this process should be allowed. Gran Turismo 5 will be released shortly and it is the only thing keeping Sony afloat. That opportunity is the key. They have been leeching every bit of progress they can from all of this for 6 months like thieves. They are using the fact that it is my observations alone that claim that the code is God’s image, to keep it quiet. I am the only one who saw the light because the owner of Polyphony Digital, yamauchi, decided to keep me in Ireland during the testing. So that is not my fault. All the problems were fundamentally caused by this useless, soulless, fool.
Some issues arose during this process. When the cross was found there was a feet kissing incident. Due to the coincidences with Ayrton Senna they thought I was Jesus and this was how I found out but later changed their minds due to some comments I passed while I was bored. At this point I hadn’t related the time I spent in the 5th dimension because the soulless fools hadn’t given me anything. I only gave them theories regarding the physics of the car and of the light. These issues progressed and deteriorated until I was cut lose after nearly having a heart attack, a brain haemorrhage and completely ruining my life. I never claimed to be Jesus directly but I did argue with yamauchi and hawking that, “what the *** would you know”. I knew it because I obseved it and they are, and were, interfering with my ability to relate what I saw. I brought this process so far, that not only did I see the light but I later proved it and made it. So you can also see exactly what I saw. I can also get a mathematician to recreate exactly what I saw in the light. How the light showed me it was conscious, alive, infinite and powerful and how Jesus appeared and behaved exactly.
I have since had a lot of difficulty trying to relate this information. I thought people would appreciate what it would take to do so. Breaking thought the fabric of space-time was a piece of cake compared to telling people about what happened after. I have since made a mess of relating this information because I assumed that they would have made it public by now and I had a plan on how I was going to relate my time in the 5th dimension.
This is a real opportunity for positive change based on this progress and proof and everyone has a right to it. This really happened but it went so far it has become unbelievable. When you see what has been found it will be very easy to see how this equates to the proof. It’s just a pity that personal opinions have got in the way of all of this.
Colm.
As this code was solid, it could move and be acted upon. They developed a system in which I could increase the speed that this code was running. It started off very slowly and was quite easy to beat. I just had to make as many decisions as I could over a short time. After a week I had increased the speed to just below the speed of light © and it was very difficult to keep up. I lost my temper with it and gave it one last serious effort. As this was happening my arm became light. I needed to move at C, to beat the code, which was running just below C. By the time I looked away from my arm, all the matter around me had become light. It was like an explosion that travelled outwards and then came back at me. When it came back, there was nothing but light all around me. The light proceeded to show me it was conscious, infinite, alive and powerful. It then drew my attention to my left where there was somebody sitting down who resembled Jesus. I looked at this person and this person looked at me. I asked “who are you” and at that time the light returned the way it came. For a long time I doubted if this had even happened.
After this code was brought to C it had expanded and become a 3D object. I essentially gave birth to this thing and over the next 5 months I got to know it and find it’s weak points. I repeatedly broke it and each time they managed to make it stronger until it was unbreakable. As I couldn’t do anything more with it I suggested that they assume there is only light because that is what I saw earlier. They managed to make this theory work and created an environment made out of light that represented what I saw, which is the 5th dimension. This was confirmation of seeing the light and that there is dimension of light all around us, travelling at a speed our minds can’t perceive. I perceived it because I managed to think and move accurately at C for a short time.
I had developed such an understanding of this code through breaking it and working with it that I was able to manipulate it. This grew into an eventual ability to make this environment perfect. I managed to draw to physically draw the code from where it was being introduced into the system and finished the code making it perfect. So it is now exactly what I saw at C, complete mathematical perfection, and God’s image.
As the code was working at C it facilitated mathematical equations at C. This made it possible to conduct a test that found the points of inertia within the car. This had to be done practically by me and I found every point. These points made up a 3D mathematical cross and it left the physicists with a cross which needed to be employed somewhere. There was a field found around the car by one of the physicists. The cross was found to go above the car on top of this field. I then suggested there may be a halo around this field as this system was starting to look that way. This worked and another physicist found that the weight of the car was shaped like a pair of balls.
This system was confirmation that the person sitting in the light was Jesus Christ. This system symbolises what it took for him to go through with the crucifixion. I was 90% sure it was him at the time but it would have been an assumption based on the fact that there was no cross and I didn’t get an answer to my question. I’m not a religious person and I had no faith so the observations I made were objective not subjective.
During this process coincidences were noticed regarding Ayrton Senna. He was a deeply religious person and wore shamrocks on his helmet from the year after I was born. The Polyphony Digital people used these coincidences to portray that he knew I was alive and I was meant to find this proof. Various people were invited to observe this process on this premise. In particular Mr. Honda. A big deal was made about his being there. Much face was at risk! (whatever that may be) Executives from all the major Japanese car manufacturers were invited to observe. Also individuals connected with Gran Turismo observed this process namely Jeremy Clarkson and Stephen Hawking who was attracted by mathematics travelling at C. I am naming these people because they gave me good reason. I will continue to name the rest if they remain sitting on the fence. To deny this proof is to deny God, Jesus and me. I almost regret naming these people personally but I have been hung out to dry after providing all of this.
I am suggesting a boycott of Sony and Polyphony Digital so that they have to show the proof now and so that anybody who can contribute to this process should be allowed. Gran Turismo 5 will be released shortly and it is the only thing keeping Sony afloat. That opportunity is the key. They have been leeching every bit of progress they can from all of this for 6 months like thieves. They are using the fact that it is my observations alone that claim that the code is God’s image, to keep it quiet. I am the only one who saw the light because the owner of Polyphony Digital, yamauchi, decided to keep me in Ireland during the testing. So that is not my fault. All the problems were fundamentally caused by this useless, soulless, fool.
Some issues arose during this process. When the cross was found there was a feet kissing incident. Due to the coincidences with Ayrton Senna they thought I was Jesus and this was how I found out but later changed their minds due to some comments I passed while I was bored. At this point I hadn’t related the time I spent in the 5th dimension because the soulless fools hadn’t given me anything. I only gave them theories regarding the physics of the car and of the light. These issues progressed and deteriorated until I was cut lose after nearly having a heart attack, a brain haemorrhage and completely ruining my life. I never claimed to be Jesus directly but I did argue with yamauchi and hawking that, “what the *** would you know”. I knew it because I obseved it and they are, and were, interfering with my ability to relate what I saw. I brought this process so far, that not only did I see the light but I later proved it and made it. So you can also see exactly what I saw. I can also get a mathematician to recreate exactly what I saw in the light. How the light showed me it was conscious, alive, infinite and powerful and how Jesus appeared and behaved exactly.
I have since had a lot of difficulty trying to relate this information. I thought people would appreciate what it would take to do so. Breaking thought the fabric of space-time was a piece of cake compared to telling people about what happened after. I have since made a mess of relating this information because I assumed that they would have made it public by now and I had a plan on how I was going to relate my time in the 5th dimension.
This is a real opportunity for positive change based on this progress and proof and everyone has a right to it. This really happened but it went so far it has become unbelievable. When you see what has been found it will be very easy to see how this equates to the proof. It’s just a pity that personal opinions have got in the way of all of this.
Colm.
Repeating garbage does not improve it's smell.
QUOTE (occidental+Oct 16 2008, 02:35 AM)
QUOTE
I dont even know what your opening sentence means. The rest is more revisionist history thats just silly. I still dont understand why you take it all so seriously. I have said this before and Ill say it again. Lui, you make me laugh. A lot. Like out loud for real.
I can't even be bothered to check my opening line dude. As for laughing, you continue to provide me with plenty of it. I never knew I was coming to a zoo a year or so ago. So I like to play my part at tickling the hyena's fancies. All in the name of free speech too.
Occidental you are a first class nasty little shallow minded idiot....laugh laugh laugh. You and that professor clown here, who should know better than to mess with people's names here. Why wouldn't I think it's funny?
You do put on a comedy act here right? I mean, this isn't a real science world attitude of yours is it?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I dont even know what your opening sentence means. The rest is more revisionist history thats just silly. I still dont understand why you take it all so seriously. I have said this before and Ill say it again. Lui, you make me laugh. A lot. Like out loud for real. |
I can't even be bothered to check my opening line dude. As for laughing, you continue to provide me with plenty of it. I never knew I was coming to a zoo a year or so ago. So I like to play my part at tickling the hyena's fancies. All in the name of free speech too.
Occidental you are a first class nasty little shallow minded idiot....laugh laugh laugh. You and that professor clown here, who should know better than to mess with people's names here. Why wouldn't I think it's funny?
You do put on a comedy act here right? I mean, this isn't a real science world attitude of yours is it?
Sometimes I share what you write with other people because I think its so funny.
Yeah it has a hold on you. I think you're making 5D jealous though. He likes to think himself funny. Neonom doesn't think me funny. So there ya go, you can't please all the hyenas all of the time.
QUOTE
They think its funny too.
No suprises there, and the kind of people you probably hang out with.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| They think its funny too. |
No suprises there, and the kind of people you probably hang out with.
The whole thing over at bfn, now with you trying to talk like an adult about the "concrete core", crap Im pissing myself laughing right now just thinking about it.
Typical put down bully twot attitude little guy. Psych psych psych out. It's pitifully funny, because I and no one else actually gives a damn anyway. This is physorg now remember, say your crap, it gets buried eventually, and I doubt if that many people will spend more than a fleeting scornful moment reviewing it. So smug on anonimous voice on t'internet.
QUOTE
Youre a walking comedy act.
That's because you clowns should be sacked.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Youre a walking comedy act. |
That's because you clowns should be sacked.
You got banned from a science forum, then came back under a different name, but pretended you werent the same person? Because?
Because none of it was as nasty as you taking on names of your own at BFN, scisci/Betamax, and adding your usual scornful little piss takes. Want to convert a place to the zoo, people will want and come to play with the animals.
QUOTE
And you did that over, and over and over. And over. Literally. OM I cant stop laughing. You wrote a book... im laughing too hard to go there right now.
Of course you are. That's your whole persona right there. Yeah I wrote a book. And gits like you, that don't understand the first thing about it have your anonimous chance to be the cretins you are about it. It's too funny for words.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| And you did that over, and over and over. And over. Literally. OM I cant stop laughing. You wrote a book... im laughing too hard to go there right now. |
Of course you are. That's your whole persona right there. Yeah I wrote a book. And gits like you, that don't understand the first thing about it have your anonimous chance to be the cretins you are about it. It's too funny for words.
Your accusations and characterizations are funny. my collegues and i are sussed. thats funny.
Not at all. you are well and truly sussed. Come out of your hidey hole if you want to take steps to have it proved.
QUOTE
Youre blatant hypocrisy is funny. I dont even know what youre talking about half the time.
That's because you are too thick to understand. Again, why make a virtue out of what is your problem.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Youre blatant hypocrisy is funny. I dont even know what youre talking about half the time. |
That's because you are too thick to understand. Again, why make a virtue out of what is your problem.
It doesnt matter to me what someone else said to you or about you or whatever. Its your goofball replies and wacky comments that just crack me up.
That's nice. At least it seems like you are going to die laughing. So many people die looking back over their life and realizing the waste, and then it's too late to try again. Aaaah, the poor scorners. That bit isn't funny, but not my problem.
QUOTE
You should lighten up, Lui. You probably wont be as funny, but you might be happier.
Occidental, I'd wager that I have experienced happiness is that still beyond your poor shallow ego. Passion, as well as many other emotions that you are too immature to even grasp. That's just how you come accross. I'm as light as a feather compared to your denseness of mind. Should anyone with depth ever read this, they will know exactly what I mean about you. Sadly, I doubt that you will.
I'm sure you'll be back for another dose, where you think you are winning. Poor kid. Give it up. Pick on brain cells your size.:-)
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| You should lighten up, Lui. You probably wont be as funny, but you might be happier. |
Occidental, I'd wager that I have experienced happiness is that still beyond your poor shallow ego. Passion, as well as many other emotions that you are too immature to even grasp. That's just how you come accross. I'm as light as a feather compared to your denseness of mind. Should anyone with depth ever read this, they will know exactly what I mean about you. Sadly, I doubt that you will.
I'm sure you'll be back for another dose, where you think you are winning. Poor kid. Give it up. Pick on brain cells your size.:-)
I hope that helps. Carry on.
I'll carry on giving like for like.
Take care
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 16 2008, 08:30 PM)
I was involved in testing a physics engine with a Japanese company called Polyphony Digital who make a driving simulator called Gran Turismo. This process intended to make a virtual car drive according to the laws of physics just as it would in reality. During this process a Japanese mathematician who was hired by Polyphony Digital developed a type of code that was intended to predict how the grip would behave while it was lost. This code was developed even further after I did a large amount of testing that made it “solid”. This was a major breakthrough for science and mathematics that blurred the line between the virtual and physical world.
As this code was solid, it could move and be acted upon. They developed a system in which I could increase the speed that this code was running. It started off very slowly and was quite easy to beat. I just had to make as many decisions as I could over a short time. After a week I had increased the speed to just below the speed of light © and it was very difficult to keep up. I lost my temper with it and gave it one last serious effort. As this was happening my arm became light. I needed to move at C, to beat the code, which was running just below C. By the time I looked away from my arm, all the matter around me had become light. It was like an explosion that travelled outwards and then came back at me. When it came back, there was nothing but light all around me. The light proceeded to show me it was conscious, infinite, alive and powerful. It then drew my attention to my left where there was somebody sitting down who resembled Jesus. I looked at this person and this person looked at me. I asked “who are you” and at that time the light returned the way it came. For a long time I doubted if this had even happened.
My Brother went through a similar delusional state during the late stage of his terminal bout with cancer. He would converse with people who weren't present, and interact with objects not tangible to those of us around him. It never occurred to me that he was doing R&D for a computer simulation. I'll go back and search his personal records for an employment contract with a major software developer.
As this code was solid, it could move and be acted upon. They developed a system in which I could increase the speed that this code was running. It started off very slowly and was quite easy to beat. I just had to make as many decisions as I could over a short time. After a week I had increased the speed to just below the speed of light © and it was very difficult to keep up. I lost my temper with it and gave it one last serious effort. As this was happening my arm became light. I needed to move at C, to beat the code, which was running just below C. By the time I looked away from my arm, all the matter around me had become light. It was like an explosion that travelled outwards and then came back at me. When it came back, there was nothing but light all around me. The light proceeded to show me it was conscious, infinite, alive and powerful. It then drew my attention to my left where there was somebody sitting down who resembled Jesus. I looked at this person and this person looked at me. I asked “who are you” and at that time the light returned the way it came. For a long time I doubted if this had even happened.
My Brother went through a similar delusional state during the late stage of his terminal bout with cancer. He would converse with people who weren't present, and interact with objects not tangible to those of us around him. It never occurred to me that he was doing R&D for a computer simulation. I'll go back and search his personal records for an employment contract with a major software developer.
QUOTE (occidental+Oct 16 2008, 02:35 AM)
Its your goofball replies and wacky comments that just crack me up.
Thank you for Carrying on.
Thank you for Carrying on.
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
Do you think you would benefit from seeing what I'm talking about?
I don't know if I would benefit per se, as it would mean the end of freedom. God is the just the ultimate big brother idea. I value my own privacy and thus enjoy sharing my time and thoughts. Having proof of some overlord that knows everything about everything kinda takes the joy of living out of life for me. Wouldn't the paranoia be really annoying?
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
Do you think that if this proof exists, it would be relevant to you?
Nobody knows whether God's' exist or not. The Universe seems to operate just fine without that assumption. If a God does exist then there would be proof somewhere, however if this God is indeed omnipotent, then it can only prove itself to exist if it so desires. By definition nothing we do will make a shred of difference to an omnipotent entity, unless we become omnipotent ourselves. So if there is a God and that God wants me to believe it exists (given that God would know my criteria for proof) then it ain't going to come from someone over the Internet who offers nothing but hollow assumptions, non-sensical, un-scientific, delusional blathering and is probably a troll. Think about it!
Can you see that this is not for my benefit?
What you actually get out of this, only you can know. If I were you I would be seriously exhausting all other possible explanations for the experience (assuming that you felt that you actually had an experience). Until YOU provide proof it just sounds like a cry for attention. I and others are giving you some attention, myself in the vein hope that you will question further and that you are safe, well and not a danger to yourself or others.
regards
My Brother went through a similar delusional state during the late stage of his terminal bout with cancer. He would converse with people who weren't present, and interact with objects not tangible to those of us around him. It never occurred to me that he was doing R&D for a computer simulation. I'll go back and search his personal records for an employment contract with a major software developer.
I dont have cancer nor am I delusional. If ither of us has some soul searchiing to do, its you. The fact that you are so closed minded to something, anything, says that you need to look deeply into your own cognitive ability.
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
Nobody knows whether God's' exist or not. The Universe seems to operate just fine without that assumption. If a God does exist then there would be proof somewhere, however if this God is indeed omnipotent, then it can only prove itself to exist if it so desires. By definition nothing we do will make a shred of difference to an omnipotent entity, unless we become omnipotent ourselves. So if there is a God and that God wants me to believe it exists (given that God would know my criteria for proof) then it ain't going to come from someone over the Internet who offers nothing but hollow assumptions, non-sensical, un-scientific, delusional blathering and is probably a troll. Think about it!
What you actually get out of this, only you can know. If I were you I would be seriously exhausting all other possible explanations for the experience (assuming that you felt that you actually had an experience). Until YOU provide proof it just sounds like a cry for attention. I and others are giving you some attention, myself in the vein hope that you will question further and that you are safe, well and not a danger to yourself or others.
regards
I believe that part of this reality's purpose is to give you the very freedom you said you would lose if there was a God. I mentioned before that this reality has no referee. You are free to do, think, and say as you want. In the 5th dimension you only do what you are allowed to do but the 5th dimension is perfect so you would have no complaints, eternally. As for the paranoia, look at what I'm sharing, under the circumstances I'm sharing it. If anybody has anything to worry about regarding God and the associated issues, its me.
What I'm saying is 100% verifiable.
I do and I got as close to proving it as anybody ever will. I created his image with some help from some computers. The proof was on the other side of the fabric of space-time. Getting there found God and as I brought mathematics with me I was able to later create the same thing I saw. He built confirmation into the laws of physics of who his son was so it could be proved later on. I'm aware that hearing over the internet is a bad place to hear this but as I explained I have no choice. This is the quickest way to inform as many people as possible.
You mentioned psychology. Please define the mental condition you think I have. Just to let you know, the only condition I have that I can define is ego mania because I have the greatest mind on the planet and I did everything I said I did but more than that I have gained an understanding of God's mind and that is something special. You might not believe or appreciate it now but you will at some point.
Many people mention attention. Do you really think I give a flying *** about attention? This is the internet its not entirely real nor does it give an accurate account of reality. Personnally speaking. I am sharing this information because it's true. No other reason.
Your right about getting the proof. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. I did the majority of this *** process myself and now I'm going to have to do the rest as well. Your worth your weight in gold.
Bush is human, humans don't give birth to non-humans, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right? Is there a purpose? Could a human evolve to the point where an aardvark could evolve from it?
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
I don't know if I would benefit per se, as it would mean the end of freedom. God is the just the ultimate big brother idea. I value my own privacy and thus enjoy sharing my time and thoughts. Having proof of some overlord that knows everything about everything kinda takes the joy of living out of life for me. Wouldn't the paranoia be really annoying?
QUOTE
Do you think you would benifit scientifically from what I'm talking about? (assuming that because you are on a science forum you are good with numbers)
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Do you think you would benifit scientifically from what I'm talking about? (assuming that because you are on a science forum you are good with numbers) |
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
Do you think that if this proof exists, it would be relevant to you?
Nobody knows whether God's' exist or not. The Universe seems to operate just fine without that assumption. If a God does exist then there would be proof somewhere, however if this God is indeed omnipotent, then it can only prove itself to exist if it so desires. By definition nothing we do will make a shred of difference to an omnipotent entity, unless we become omnipotent ourselves. So if there is a God and that God wants me to believe it exists (given that God would know my criteria for proof) then it ain't going to come from someone over the Internet who offers nothing but hollow assumptions, non-sensical, un-scientific, delusional blathering and is probably a troll. Think about it!
QUOTE
Can you see that this is not for my benefit?
What you actually get out of this, only you can know. If I were you I would be seriously exhausting all other possible explanations for the experience (assuming that you felt that you actually had an experience). Until YOU provide proof it just sounds like a cry for attention. I and others are giving you some attention, myself in the vein hope that you will question further and that you are safe, well and not a danger to yourself or others.
regards
QUOTE (occidental+Oct 17 2008, 01:07 AM)
Thank you for Carrying on.
No thank you for the opportunity to give it some to a cracked up git that lacks substance.
No thank you for the opportunity to give it some to a cracked up git that lacks substance.
Hey voodoochile, it turns out that there is proof of your claim. Here's a video of a test drive of GT3 at light speed. This driver is so skilled that he was able to surpass your incredible feet of reaching the speed of light. He managed to will his machine to nearly twice the speed of light.
There could be a possible spiritual controversy to this situation if it turns out that Satan was sitting next to him during the test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
There could be a possible spiritual controversy to this situation if it turns out that Satan was sitting next to him during the test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 16 2008, 08:30 PM)
When you see what has been found it will be very easy to see how this equates to the proof. It’s just a pity that personal opinions have got in the way of all of this.
Yes, it is a pity to see that YOUR personal opinion has blinded you to the simple fact of the matter: YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF ANYTHING.
What you DO have is a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that obviously was meaningful to YOU in some way, and I congratulate you for that.
What you DO NOT have is SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
You participated in TESTING of a SOFTWARE PRODUCT. You DID NOT participate in a SCIENCE EXPERIMENT designed to prove the existence of God.
If you feel that your experience is an indication that the existence of God is PROVABLE, then please, by all means, produce a hypothesis, and design an experiment to test that hypothesis. Then and ONLY then will you BEGIN to have scientific evidence, although it remains to be seen whether or not that evidence will prove or disprove what you think it will.
Yes, it is a pity to see that YOUR personal opinion has blinded you to the simple fact of the matter: YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF ANYTHING.
What you DO have is a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that obviously was meaningful to YOU in some way, and I congratulate you for that.
What you DO NOT have is SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
You participated in TESTING of a SOFTWARE PRODUCT. You DID NOT participate in a SCIENCE EXPERIMENT designed to prove the existence of God.
If you feel that your experience is an indication that the existence of God is PROVABLE, then please, by all means, produce a hypothesis, and design an experiment to test that hypothesis. Then and ONLY then will you BEGIN to have scientific evidence, although it remains to be seen whether or not that evidence will prove or disprove what you think it will.
QUOTE (Capracus+Oct 16 2008, 11:25 PM)
My Brother went through a similar delusional state during the late stage of his terminal bout with cancer. He would converse with people who weren't present, and interact with objects not tangible to those of us around him. It never occurred to me that he was doing R&D for a computer simulation. I'll go back and search his personal records for an employment contract with a major software developer.
I dont have cancer nor am I delusional. If ither of us has some soul searchiing to do, its you. The fact that you are so closed minded to something, anything, says that you need to look deeply into your own cognitive ability.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 02:12 PM)
I dont have cancer nor am I delusional. If ither of us has some soul searchiing to do, its you. The fact that you are so closed minded to something, anything, says that you need to look deeply into your own cognitive ability.
Refusing to believe that you physically moved at the speed of light is not being close minded... it's being realistic.
Refusing to believe that you physically moved at the speed of light is not being close minded... it's being realistic.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Oct 17 2008, 07:26 AM)
In terms of knowledge, if what you are talking about had an ounce of verifiable truth to it then of course it would have overwhelming implications for science. As it stands though your experience probably has a much more plausible psychological explanation.
How do you think science would benefit?
Nobody knows whether God's' exist or not. The Universe seems to operate just fine without that assumption. If a God does exist then there would be proof somewhere, however if this God is indeed omnipotent, then it can only prove itself to exist if it so desires. By definition nothing we do will make a shred of difference to an omnipotent entity, unless we become omnipotent ourselves. So if there is a God and that God wants me to believe it exists (given that God would know my criteria for proof) then it ain't going to come from someone over the Internet who offers nothing but hollow assumptions, non-sensical, un-scientific, delusional blathering and is probably a troll. Think about it!
What you actually get out of this, only you can know. If I were you I would be seriously exhausting all other possible explanations for the experience (assuming that you felt that you actually had an experience). Until YOU provide proof it just sounds like a cry for attention. I and others are giving you some attention, myself in the vein hope that you will question further and that you are safe, well and not a danger to yourself or others.
regards
I believe that part of this reality's purpose is to give you the very freedom you said you would lose if there was a God. I mentioned before that this reality has no referee. You are free to do, think, and say as you want. In the 5th dimension you only do what you are allowed to do but the 5th dimension is perfect so you would have no complaints, eternally. As for the paranoia, look at what I'm sharing, under the circumstances I'm sharing it. If anybody has anything to worry about regarding God and the associated issues, its me.
What I'm saying is 100% verifiable.
I do and I got as close to proving it as anybody ever will. I created his image with some help from some computers. The proof was on the other side of the fabric of space-time. Getting there found God and as I brought mathematics with me I was able to later create the same thing I saw. He built confirmation into the laws of physics of who his son was so it could be proved later on. I'm aware that hearing over the internet is a bad place to hear this but as I explained I have no choice. This is the quickest way to inform as many people as possible.
You mentioned psychology. Please define the mental condition you think I have. Just to let you know, the only condition I have that I can define is ego mania because I have the greatest mind on the planet and I did everything I said I did but more than that I have gained an understanding of God's mind and that is something special. You might not believe or appreciate it now but you will at some point.
Many people mention attention. Do you really think I give a flying *** about attention? This is the internet its not entirely real nor does it give an accurate account of reality. Personnally speaking. I am sharing this information because it's true. No other reason.
Your right about getting the proof. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. I did the majority of this *** process myself and now I'm going to have to do the rest as well. Your worth your weight in gold.
QUOTE (Capracus+Oct 17 2008, 12:57 PM)
Hey voodoochile, it turns out that there is proof of your claim. Here's a video of a test drive of GT3 at light speed. This driver is so skilled that he was able to surpass your incredible feet of reaching the speed of light. He managed to will his machine to nearly twice the speed of light.
There could be a possible spiritual controversy to this situation if it turns out that Satan was sitting next to him during the test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
Time well spent
There could be a possible spiritual controversy to this situation if it turns out that Satan was sitting next to him during the test run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
Time well spent
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 17 2008, 07:25 PM)
Refusing to believe that you physically moved at the speed of light is not being close minded... it's being realistic.
An open minded person would be open to the possibility of anything happening.
An open minded person would be open to the possibility of anything happening.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 07:47 PM)
An open minded person would be open to the possibility of anything happening.
Strictly speaking, that's true, however extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. All you have is "because I said so" to support your claim of a) the code "going" the speed of light, and b ) you going the speed of light, and turning into light. If you want us to believe that, you're going to have to provide some really extraordinary evidence far beyond "because I said so".
Strictly speaking, that's true, however extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. All you have is "because I said so" to support your claim of a) the code "going" the speed of light, and b ) you going the speed of light, and turning into light. If you want us to believe that, you're going to have to provide some really extraordinary evidence far beyond "because I said so".
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 02:47 PM)
An open minded person would be open to the possibility of anything happening.
Bullshit.
Would you be open to the idea of George W Bush physically giving birth to an aardvark?
Bullshit.
Would you be open to the idea of George W Bush physically giving birth to an aardvark?
QUOTE (TheDoc+Oct 15 2008, 10:23 PM)
Yes, idiot, we know your understanding is complete because the entire notion exists only in your scrambled excuse for a mind.
Prove it.
Member of Forum Mafia
© 2008 Forum Mafia Inc. Forum Mafia, FM, La Familia, CrankBusters, MoFM, "Who ya Gonna Call?", and all variants thereof are trademarks of Forum Mafia Inc. All Rights Reserved.
What are you, 12 years old?
Proud recipient of negative feedback from: BigFairy, Bloy, brent.tc, Bringer-of-Light, bukh, Capracus, Confused2, darkmatters73, DavidD, dawn, dktekno, Edward 3, eyeque, Gorgeous, howtothinklikegod, insight, inQZtive, Ivars, newton, PJParent001, Raphie Frank, Samantha Hildreth, Squeeze, SteveA2, StevenA, stevewillie, stundie, "THEY", tikay, Trippy, ubavontuba, wcelliott [your name here?] VOODOOCHILE
They are all right.
Prove it.
Member of Forum Mafia
© 2008 Forum Mafia Inc. Forum Mafia, FM, La Familia, CrankBusters, MoFM, "Who ya Gonna Call?", and all variants thereof are trademarks of Forum Mafia Inc. All Rights Reserved.
What are you, 12 years old?
Proud recipient of negative feedback from: BigFairy, Bloy, brent.tc, Bringer-of-Light, bukh, Capracus, Confused2, darkmatters73, DavidD, dawn, dktekno, Edward 3, eyeque, Gorgeous, howtothinklikegod, insight, inQZtive, Ivars, newton, PJParent001, Raphie Frank, Samantha Hildreth, Squeeze, SteveA2, StevenA, stevewillie, stundie, "THEY", tikay, Trippy, ubavontuba, wcelliott [your name here?] VOODOOCHILE
They are all right.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 17 2008, 07:56 PM)
Bullshit.
Would you be open to the idea of George W Bush physically giving birth to an aardvark?
You can be open-minded to the idea without accepting it as true. Instead of dismissing it out of hand, be open-minded and evaluate it critically.
Bush is male, males don't have the organs for giving birth, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
Bush is human, humans don't give birth to non-humans, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
See, there, I was open-minded to the idea, but I am still going to dismiss it as so unlikely that is is essentially impossible.
Just so, we can be open-minded to his idea, even though the end result might still be that we find it to be so unlikely that it is essentially impossible.
Would you be open to the idea of George W Bush physically giving birth to an aardvark?
You can be open-minded to the idea without accepting it as true. Instead of dismissing it out of hand, be open-minded and evaluate it critically.
Bush is male, males don't have the organs for giving birth, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
Bush is human, humans don't give birth to non-humans, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
See, there, I was open-minded to the idea, but I am still going to dismiss it as so unlikely that is is essentially impossible.
Just so, we can be open-minded to his idea, even though the end result might still be that we find it to be so unlikely that it is essentially impossible.
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 07:55 PM)
Strictly speaking, that's true, however extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. All you have is "because I said so" to support your claim of a) the code "going" the speed of light, and b ) you going the speed of light, and turning into light. If you want us to believe that, you're going to have to provide some really extraordinary evidence far beyond "because I said so".
When you see how it started off very slowly and then kept on going, you would be more open to that possibility than you are now. When you see the last effort I made it wont be hard to believe at all. A *** blur until C.
Thats all I can say until I get the proof. Be patient and open minded. If not for me and this information, then for yourself.
peace
When you see how it started off very slowly and then kept on going, you would be more open to that possibility than you are now. When you see the last effort I made it wont be hard to believe at all. A *** blur until C.
Thats all I can say until I get the proof. Be patient and open minded. If not for me and this information, then for yourself.
peace
Suppose you owned a baby calf. Say you went out to the pasture and picked that calf up... everyday.
Slowly - Little by little that calf grows up. By your logic you would eventually be lifting a full grown bovine.
Personally that sounds like a lot of bull to me.
However, I will reserve the right to laugh at your stupid *** when I take you to the emergency room with a ruptured hernia.
PS - The Bush/aardvark analogy may not have been that good.. 'cuz it really wouldn't surprise me to see GW pull an aardvark out of his...
Slowly - Little by little that calf grows up. By your logic you would eventually be lifting a full grown bovine.
Personally that sounds like a lot of bull to me.
However, I will reserve the right to laugh at your stupid *** when I take you to the emergency room with a ruptured hernia.
PS - The Bush/aardvark analogy may not have been that good.. 'cuz it really wouldn't surprise me to see GW pull an aardvark out of his...
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 17 2008, 08:12 PM)
Suppose you owned a baby calf. Say you went out to the pasture and picked that calf up... everyday.
Slowly - Little by little that calf grows up. By your logic you would eventually be lifting a full grown bovine.
Personally that sounds like a lot of bull to me.
However, I will reserve the right to laugh at your stupid *** when I take you to the emergency room with a ruptured hernia.
PS - The Bush/aardvark analogy may not have been that good.. 'cuz it really wouldn't surprise me to see GW pull an aardvark out of his...
I seem to attract the weirdos on every forum. I'm like the internet's Bill Bailey.
Slowly - Little by little that calf grows up. By your logic you would eventually be lifting a full grown bovine.
Personally that sounds like a lot of bull to me.
However, I will reserve the right to laugh at your stupid *** when I take you to the emergency room with a ruptured hernia.
PS - The Bush/aardvark analogy may not have been that good.. 'cuz it really wouldn't surprise me to see GW pull an aardvark out of his...
I seem to attract the weirdos on every forum. I'm like the internet's Bill Bailey.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 08:06 PM)
When you see the last effort I made it wont be hard to believe at all. A *** blur until C.
Sorry, that isn't sufficient, it's still "because I said so". Where was the "speedometer" that indicated you were going the speed of light? Where was the energy to accelerate you to C coming from, and how was it acting on you? If you "turned to light", how did you turn back into matter to be here to tell us the story?
Sorry, that isn't sufficient, it's still "because I said so". Where was the "speedometer" that indicated you were going the speed of light? Where was the energy to accelerate you to C coming from, and how was it acting on you? If you "turned to light", how did you turn back into matter to be here to tell us the story?
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 08:18 PM)
Sorry, that isn't sufficient, it's still "because I said so". Where was the "speedometer" that indicated you were going the speed of light? Where was the energy to accelerate you to C coming from, and how was it acting on you? If you "turned to light", how did you turn back into matter to be here to tell us the story?
Fair comment. Do you think you would believe me if you saw me making the code perfect with my mind power and what it looked like after?
Approaching C, the "sqaures" began to bulge. This was before they fully expanded after C. The energy came from me. I am the alpha male.
I should have gone splat. I was turned back into matter. I was tired for a week after it. If there is no God, and outside the universe there is nothing, I would have disintegrated.
Fair comment. Do you think you would believe me if you saw me making the code perfect with my mind power and what it looked like after?
Approaching C, the "sqaures" began to bulge. This was before they fully expanded after C. The energy came from me. I am the alpha male.
I should have gone splat. I was turned back into matter. I was tired for a week after it. If there is no God, and outside the universe there is nothing, I would have disintegrated.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 08:21 PM)
Fair comment. Do you think you would believe me if you saw me making the code perfect with my mind power and what it looked like after?
Sorry, you lost me at "making the code perfect with my mind power"
So now you're controlling the text editor, or maybe just modifying the bytes of the executable, with your mind?
Allow me to borrow a phrase from our good RealityCheck - Pull the other one, it has bells on!
Sorry, you lost me at "making the code perfect with my mind power"
So now you're controlling the text editor, or maybe just modifying the bytes of the executable, with your mind?
Allow me to borrow a phrase from our good RealityCheck - Pull the other one, it has bells on!
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 08:25 PM)
Sorry, you lost me at "making the code perfect with my mind power"
So now you're controlling the text editor, or maybe just modifying the bytes of the executable, with your mind?
Allow me to borrow a phrase from our good RealityCheck - Pull the other one, it has bells on!
You were open minded there for one post. Try to be consistent.
What if you actually saw it happeneing? hypothetical situation.
So now you're controlling the text editor, or maybe just modifying the bytes of the executable, with your mind?
Allow me to borrow a phrase from our good RealityCheck - Pull the other one, it has bells on!
You were open minded there for one post. Try to be consistent.
What if you actually saw it happeneing? hypothetical situation.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 08:26 PM)
You were open minded there for one post. Try to be consistent.
What if you actually saw it happeneing? hypothetical situation.
Oh, I'm open minded still, but you have yet to provide the evidence to back up these claims.
First of all, how would I know that you are modifying code, how would I know that it is being accomplished via "mind powers", how would I know that the resultant code is perfect, etc. You've got a lot to prove, and all you're offering is "because I said so".
Show me undeniable PROOF of the things you claim to have experienced, and then we can look at the conclusions that you have drawn from your experiences.
Edit: Hell, I'll relax the requirements. Make even 1 statement that is remotely plausible to support your claim that you 1) traveled at light speed, 2) turned into pure light, or 3) modified code with your mind. So far, NOTHING you have said even approaches plausibility.
What if you actually saw it happeneing? hypothetical situation.
Oh, I'm open minded still, but you have yet to provide the evidence to back up these claims.
First of all, how would I know that you are modifying code, how would I know that it is being accomplished via "mind powers", how would I know that the resultant code is perfect, etc. You've got a lot to prove, and all you're offering is "because I said so".
Show me undeniable PROOF of the things you claim to have experienced, and then we can look at the conclusions that you have drawn from your experiences.
Edit: Hell, I'll relax the requirements. Make even 1 statement that is remotely plausible to support your claim that you 1) traveled at light speed, 2) turned into pure light, or 3) modified code with your mind. So far, NOTHING you have said even approaches plausibility.
Is there evidence God Exists?
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.
Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences right in front of us.
We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
What proof is there?
Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.
We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.
One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."
Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.
After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?
(see also "Quran")
read more
What is the Origin of God?
Does God have limitations?
Why did God create everything?
Did God create evil too?
Does God know future?
Why so many religions?
Can we prove Quran is from God?
Why does Quran say, "We & He"?
God of the Jews and Christians?
Will all of us be treated equally?
godallah.com/
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.
Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences right in front of us.
We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
What proof is there?
Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.
We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.
One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."
Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.
After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?
(see also "Quran")
read more
What is the Origin of God?
Does God have limitations?
Why did God create everything?
Did God create evil too?
Does God know future?
Why so many religions?
Can we prove Quran is from God?
Why does Quran say, "We & He"?
God of the Jews and Christians?
Will all of us be treated equally?
godallah.com/
Speaking of attracting weirdos.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 08:21 PM)
The energy came from me. I am the alpha male.
Ok, I'm convinced.
You're a fucktard.
Ok, I'm convinced.
You're a fucktard.
sinister utopia.
I couldnt edit my last reply.
Though you might interpret some paranoia in this understanding, it would be better to see him as a father figure opposed to a government. if you know what I mean.
I couldnt edit my last reply.
Though you might interpret some paranoia in this understanding, it would be better to see him as a father figure opposed to a government. if you know what I mean.
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 08:03 PM)
Bush is human, humans don't give birth to non-humans, so the claim is extremely unlikely.
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right? Is there a purpose? Could a human evolve to the point where an aardvark could evolve from it?
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 04:50 PM)
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right?
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 09:50 PM)
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right?
Um, humans ARE apes, so a non-human (barely, one generation removed) gave birth to a human, all subsequent births have been human.
Um, humans ARE apes, so a non-human (barely, one generation removed) gave birth to a human, all subsequent births have been human.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
Could a human evolve to the point where an aardvark could evolve from it?
No.
No.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-)
Sure, I suppose you might be able to engineer it so that a human could carry and deliver a non-human... an aardvark would be pushing it I think.
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
Sure, I suppose you might be able to engineer it so that a human could carry and deliver a non-human... an aardvark would be pushing it I think.
That was what they reckoned the Annunaki did. Enki impregnated one of the Annunaki women with the highest form of life here at the time, the Ape. That would be more evolution on the universal scale with an alien species involved. Can't say I agree or disagree with that. Personally I'd love to see GW Bush given a womb and impregnated with an aardvark.
I dunno about that ol hyena.:-)) I don't apologize for viewing the scoffing and the scorning as an old narrow minded trait, that has been a common quality amongst some species. I don't agree with some people's strange theories, but I know when the narrow-minded set themselves up for future failure. Some of you would be the apes that gave the ape carrying a human a very hard time, metaphorically speaking. Methods become solidified, narrow-mindedness sets in, and life, so far, brings about the motive force to break the mould, normally from necessity.
Ape becomes human, human grows in consciousness, consciousness opens new paths, new questions and new methods born. Always requiring a leap. Denying the leaps and demanding tolerance of strict methods is not always fruitful. In fact, stagnation is not an option whilst there is still growing to be done. I wager that none of the scoffers here will ever reach the awareness it took to cause an evolutionary leap.
Hey RC, could the image of the computer also come before the integrated circuit board?
Sure, I suppose you might be able to engineer it so that a human could carry and deliver a non-human... an aardvark would be pushing it I think.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
You're an excellent example of this point.
You're an excellent example of this point.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 09:50 PM)
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right? Is there a purpose? Could a human evolve to the point where an aardvark could evolve from it?
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
Hi Boneidol.
You might as well have asked: at which point did the 'integrated circuit' 'arrive' at a 'computer'?
I am certain as I can be that you already know the logical/evolutionary answer/trajectory to both these 'questions' already, eh! :-)
Gotta go. Cheers mate, all!
RC.
.
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
Hi Boneidol.
You might as well have asked: at which point did the 'integrated circuit' 'arrive' at a 'computer'?
I am certain as I can be that you already know the logical/evolutionary answer/trajectory to both these 'questions' already, eh! :-)
Gotta go. Cheers mate, all!
RC.
.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 07:44 PM)
Time well spent
So does this example validate your experience?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
So does this example validate your experience?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 10:04 PM)
QUOTE
Um, humans ARE apes, so a non-human (barely, one generation removed) gave birth to a human, all subsequent births have been human.
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Um, humans ARE apes, so a non-human (barely, one generation removed) gave birth to a human, all subsequent births have been human. |
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
Sure, I suppose you might be able to engineer it so that a human could carry and deliver a non-human... an aardvark would be pushing it I think.
That was what they reckoned the Annunaki did. Enki impregnated one of the Annunaki women with the highest form of life here at the time, the Ape. That would be more evolution on the universal scale with an alien species involved. Can't say I agree or disagree with that. Personally I'd love to see GW Bush given a womb and impregnated with an aardvark.
QUOTE
You're an excellent example of this point.
I dunno about that ol hyena.:-)) I don't apologize for viewing the scoffing and the scorning as an old narrow minded trait, that has been a common quality amongst some species. I don't agree with some people's strange theories, but I know when the narrow-minded set themselves up for future failure. Some of you would be the apes that gave the ape carrying a human a very hard time, metaphorically speaking. Methods become solidified, narrow-mindedness sets in, and life, so far, brings about the motive force to break the mould, normally from necessity.
Ape becomes human, human grows in consciousness, consciousness opens new paths, new questions and new methods born. Always requiring a leap. Denying the leaps and demanding tolerance of strict methods is not always fruitful. In fact, stagnation is not an option whilst there is still growing to be done. I wager that none of the scoffers here will ever reach the awareness it took to cause an evolutionary leap.
Hey RC, could the image of the computer also come before the integrated circuit board?
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 10:57 PM)
I wager that none of the scoffers here will ever reach the awareness it took to cause an evolutionary leap.
TheDoc Posted: Oct 15 2008, 09:22 PM
Negative Pathetic lying idiot.
ASTERIX* Posted: Today at 10:03 PM
Negative Pathetic lying idiot.
You two , for example.
TheDoc Posted: Oct 15 2008, 09:22 PM
Negative Pathetic lying idiot.
ASTERIX* Posted: Today at 10:03 PM
Negative Pathetic lying idiot.
You two , for example.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 10:57 PM)
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
A species of ape that was almost, but not quite, human. That ape gave birth to a mutated ape, one that was human. The human was still an ape, just a new species of ape. A subset of ape if you will.
It's clear that you haven't figured that out yet... every evolutionary step produces a subset of the parent set, much like branches on a tree. Aardvarks are on a different branch than humans, thus it is impossible for a human to naturally conceive and give birth to an aardvark, or anything other than a human (even if it is a new species of human, it would still be human).
I'd suggest you are aping this from stuff you have been taught to believe. Feel free to prove your case and help me see this as the truith.
I'd suggest you are aping this from stuff you have been taught to believe. Feel free to prove your case and help me see this as the truith.
It's clear that you haven't figured that out yet... every evolutionary step produces a subset of the parent set, much like branches on a tree. Aardvarks are on a different branch than humans, thus it is impossible for a human to naturally conceive and give birth to an aardvark, or anything other than a human (even if it is a new species of human, it would still be human).
No, I'm ok-ish with the mechanisms of evolution, and that the aardvark exists on a different evolutionary branch to humans. But branches come from a tree, and a root to each branch exists, depending on the circumstances a species finds itself in. How did an aardvark find itself on a different branch? Are there any specific sets of mutations still available that could systematically lead an aardvark to human form, or vice versa? More specifically, from which sets of species did an ape evolve from? If they are not, why are evolutionary steps not reversible?
Consciousness is on the brink of taking over in evolutionary terms. Brain over braun. Lower consciousness species will always practice that which is sufficient for their own survival, but man will have to learn to develop different qualities.
Or to put it another way, until you know what consciousness truly is, and how it functions, you don't know jack about anything for sure. Evolution can happen to individuals, but some people only have their eyes set on physcial evolution.
Within the next decade or so, expect consciousness to catch up in terms of objectively dispalying its many talents, which until now have remained in the domain of the subjective.
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
...
...
...
...
Evolved from 'apes' via successive versions of 'ape-like' and then more 'human-loke' precursors and transitional states. Remembering that 'spectrum' of prior states to the present state will help keep things in perspective and avoid needless irrelevant arguments based on confusing misleading assumptions and simplistic statements......on anybody's part. :-)
Hey RC, could the image of the computer also come before the integrated circuit board?
That depends on WHICH brain-mind 'intellect' you had in mind that would have such a prior 'conceptual image'.
If you mean HUMAN brain-mind, then NO is the answer....since the developmental histroy is well docummented and the idea/technology of a 'computer' early on was that of rudimentary 'machines' and 'logics' systems (like abacus and mathematical logics etc) that remained so until Von Neumman et al 'invented the 'necessary logics for more advanced 'processing systems' that started out as simple/limited, crude and clunky and gradually evolved into the early diode-based computing machines/logics/algorithms and----given the later advanced hardware and self-directing/learning software and the advent of the transistor and its miniaturisation and low cost/availability/flexibility and HIGHER PACKING/COMPLEXITY POTENTIAL etc-------became, or should I say EVOLVED/DEVELOPED into the COMPLEX AND FLEXIBLE 'thinking' as well as 'processing' machine intellects we have today. So the present 'computer' is NOT the 'same' as the earliest precursor elements and concepts, but a 'product' of the evolution/development from such.
However, if you mean a SUPERHUMAN and/or SUPERNATURAL brain-mind (ie, a 'god intelligence' or some sort of 'super advanced alien intelligence' or whatever), then the answer is STILL NO.....since if either of that were involved, then the 'computer' concept and embodiment would have been IMAGED and embodied as the computer as it is NOW, or in an EVER MORE ADVANCED FORM than it has reached at present!.....and not needed to 'evolve/develop' AT ALL from primitive precursor form to present form in the 'transitional evolutionary steps' that it DID take took to do in reality.
See the corollaries/relevances for our human body/brain-mind evolutionary/developmental 'steps' from primitive 'precursor' states to present 'evolved' state, mate?
Cheers all!
RC.
.
A species of ape that was almost, but not quite, human. That ape gave birth to a mutated ape, one that was human. The human was still an ape, just a new species of ape. A subset of ape if you will.
It's clear that you haven't figured that out yet... every evolutionary step produces a subset of the parent set, much like branches on a tree. Aardvarks are on a different branch than humans, thus it is impossible for a human to naturally conceive and give birth to an aardvark, or anything other than a human (even if it is a new species of human, it would still be human).
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
I wager that none of the scoffers here will ever reach the awareness it took to cause an evolutionary leap.
And you still haven't figured out that evolution doesn't happen to individuals? Edit: AND doesn't require awareness? There is no deliberate action that an organism must take to achieve evolution, it's requires a RANDOM mutation that HAPPENS to be beneficial and HAPPENS to be passed along through multiple generations.
And you still haven't figured out that evolution doesn't happen to individuals? Edit: AND doesn't require awareness? There is no deliberate action that an organism must take to achieve evolution, it's requires a RANDOM mutation that HAPPENS to be beneficial and HAPPENS to be passed along through multiple generations.
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 11:25 PM)
QUOTE
A species of ape that was almost, but not quite, human. That ape gave birth to a mutated ape, one that was human. The human was still an ape, just a new species of ape. A subset of ape if you will.
I'd suggest you are aping this from stuff you have been taught to believe. Feel free to prove your case and help me see this as the truith.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| A species of ape that was almost, but not quite, human. That ape gave birth to a mutated ape, one that was human. The human was still an ape, just a new species of ape. A subset of ape if you will. |
I'd suggest you are aping this from stuff you have been taught to believe. Feel free to prove your case and help me see this as the truith.
It's clear that you haven't figured that out yet... every evolutionary step produces a subset of the parent set, much like branches on a tree. Aardvarks are on a different branch than humans, thus it is impossible for a human to naturally conceive and give birth to an aardvark, or anything other than a human (even if it is a new species of human, it would still be human).
No, I'm ok-ish with the mechanisms of evolution, and that the aardvark exists on a different evolutionary branch to humans. But branches come from a tree, and a root to each branch exists, depending on the circumstances a species finds itself in. How did an aardvark find itself on a different branch? Are there any specific sets of mutations still available that could systematically lead an aardvark to human form, or vice versa? More specifically, from which sets of species did an ape evolve from? If they are not, why are evolutionary steps not reversible?
QUOTE
And you still haven't figured out that evolution doesn't happen to individuals? Edit: AND doesn't require awareness? There is no deliberate action that an organism must take to achieve evolution, it's requires a RANDOM mutation that HAPPENS to be beneficial and HAPPENS to be passed along through multiple generations.
Consciousness is on the brink of taking over in evolutionary terms. Brain over braun. Lower consciousness species will always practice that which is sufficient for their own survival, but man will have to learn to develop different qualities.
Or to put it another way, until you know what consciousness truly is, and how it functions, you don't know jack about anything for sure. Evolution can happen to individuals, but some people only have their eyes set on physcial evolution.
Within the next decade or so, expect consciousness to catch up in terms of objectively dispalying its many talents, which until now have remained in the domain of the subjective.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 10:57 PM)
Transition is transition. What do you men by a non-human, if humans ARE apes?
...
...
...
...
Evolved from 'apes' via successive versions of 'ape-like' and then more 'human-loke' precursors and transitional states. Remembering that 'spectrum' of prior states to the present state will help keep things in perspective and avoid needless irrelevant arguments based on confusing misleading assumptions and simplistic statements......on anybody's part. :-)
QUOTE (Boneidol to RealityCheck+Oct 17 2008, 10:57 PM)
Hey RC, could the image of the computer also come before the integrated circuit board?
That depends on WHICH brain-mind 'intellect' you had in mind that would have such a prior 'conceptual image'.
If you mean HUMAN brain-mind, then NO is the answer....since the developmental histroy is well docummented and the idea/technology of a 'computer' early on was that of rudimentary 'machines' and 'logics' systems (like abacus and mathematical logics etc) that remained so until Von Neumman et al 'invented the 'necessary logics for more advanced 'processing systems' that started out as simple/limited, crude and clunky and gradually evolved into the early diode-based computing machines/logics/algorithms and----given the later advanced hardware and self-directing/learning software and the advent of the transistor and its miniaturisation and low cost/availability/flexibility and HIGHER PACKING/COMPLEXITY POTENTIAL etc-------became, or should I say EVOLVED/DEVELOPED into the COMPLEX AND FLEXIBLE 'thinking' as well as 'processing' machine intellects we have today. So the present 'computer' is NOT the 'same' as the earliest precursor elements and concepts, but a 'product' of the evolution/development from such.
However, if you mean a SUPERHUMAN and/or SUPERNATURAL brain-mind (ie, a 'god intelligence' or some sort of 'super advanced alien intelligence' or whatever), then the answer is STILL NO.....since if either of that were involved, then the 'computer' concept and embodiment would have been IMAGED and embodied as the computer as it is NOW, or in an EVER MORE ADVANCED FORM than it has reached at present!.....and not needed to 'evolve/develop' AT ALL from primitive precursor form to present form in the 'transitional evolutionary steps' that it DID take took to do in reality.
See the corollaries/relevances for our human body/brain-mind evolutionary/developmental 'steps' from primitive 'precursor' states to present 'evolved' state, mate?
Cheers all!
RC.
.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 18 2008, 12:13 AM)
I'd suggest you are aping this from stuff you have been taught to believe. Feel free to prove your case and help me see this as the truith.
It's quite possible. The evidence I've seen leads me to believe that the conclusions are correct. As for proving the case, just look at the evidence objectively, it proves itself.
It's quite possible. The evidence I've seen leads me to believe that the conclusions are correct. As for proving the case, just look at the evidence objectively, it proves itself.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
How did an aardvark find itself on a different branch?
Probably through a series of adaptations to a different environment than every other species.
Probably through a series of adaptations to a different environment than every other species.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
Are there any specific sets of mutations still available that could systematically lead an aardvark to human form, or vice versa?
I suppose the possibility exists, but it would take millions (if not billions) of generations (if we depend on random mutations and force selection), possibly only hundreds of thousands of generations if we force the mutations as well.
I suppose the possibility exists, but it would take millions (if not billions) of generations (if we depend on random mutations and force selection), possibly only hundreds of thousands of generations if we force the mutations as well.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
More specifically, from which sets of species did an ape evolve from?
Whatever's next up the tree, I'd have to look it up to be sure.
Whatever's next up the tree, I'd have to look it up to be sure.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
If they are not, why are evolutionary steps not reversible?
I'm not sure that the random mutations are reversible. For example, if a mutation occurs that produces a dominant gene form, then reverting to the recessive would require significant environmental pressure.
I'm not sure that the random mutations are reversible. For example, if a mutation occurs that produces a dominant gene form, then reverting to the recessive would require significant environmental pressure.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
Consciousness is on the brink of taking over in evolutionary terms. Brain over braun. Lower consciousness species will always practice that which is sufficient for their own survival, but man will have to learn to develop different qualities.
While it might be true that higher intellectual capacity is a favorable trait that is even now being selected for, the idea that we as a species are learning and that what we learn is being passed on genetically to our descendants is basically Lamarkian evolution, and that has been disproven.
While it might be true that higher intellectual capacity is a favorable trait that is even now being selected for, the idea that we as a species are learning and that what we learn is being passed on genetically to our descendants is basically Lamarkian evolution, and that has been disproven.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
Evolution can happen to individuals
Individuals can develop over the course of their lifetime, but this is NOT evolution in the biological sense. The developments in each individual are not genetic, and they are not passed on to their offspring.
Individuals can develop over the course of their lifetime, but this is NOT evolution in the biological sense. The developments in each individual are not genetic, and they are not passed on to their offspring.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
but some people only have their eyes set on physcial evolution.
The mind is limited by the physical. For the mind to evolve, the physical must evolve.
Evolved from 'apes' via successive versions of 'ape-like' and then more 'human-loke' precursors and transitional states. Remembering that 'spectrum' of prior states to the present state will help keep things in perspective and avoid needless irrelevant arguments based on confusing misleading assumptions and simplistic statements......on anybody's part. :-)
That depends on WHICH brain-mind 'intellect' you had in mind that would have such a prior 'conceptual image'.
If you mean HUMAN brain-mind, then NO is the answer....since the developmental histroy is well docummented and the idea/technology of a 'computer' early on was that of rudimentary 'machines' and 'logics' systems (like abacus and mathematical logics etc) that remained so until Von Neumman et al 'invented the 'necessary logics for more advanced 'processing systems' that started out as simple/limited, crude and clunky and gradually evolved into the early diode-based computing machines/logics/algorithms and----given the later advanced hardware and self-directing/learning software and the advent of the transistor and its miniaturisation and low cost/availability/flexibility and HIGHER PACKING/COMPLEXITY POTENTIAL etc-------became, or should I say EVOLVED/DEVELOPED into the COMPLEX AND FLEXIBLE 'thinking' as well as 'processing' machine intellects we have today. So the present 'computer' is NOT the 'same' as the earliest precursor elements and concepts, but a 'product' of the evolution/development from such.
However, if you mean a SUPERHUMAN and/or SUPERNATURAL brain-mind (ie, a 'god intelligence' or some sort of 'super advanced alien intelligence' or whatever), then the answer is STILL NO.....since if either of that were involved, then the 'computer' concept and embodiment would have been IMAGED and embodied as the computer as it is NOW, or in an EVER MORE ADVANCED FORM than it has reached at present!.....and not needed to 'evolve/develop' AT ALL from primitive precursor form to present form in the 'transitional evolutionary steps' that it DID take took to do in reality.
See the corollaries/relevances for our human body/brain-mind evolutionary/developmental 'steps' from primitive 'precursor' states to present 'evolved' state, mate?
Cheers all!
RC.
.
Thanks RC, for those good explanations. Would the idea of Pantheism allow the natural state of evolution to be ther vehicle for intended purposes? Silly question I know, because we can't answer it with surety. Whether these kinds of things will become relevent to science is also a matter of science evolving. Nothing much would have to change, except from purposeless to purposeful.
I have dreams where I hear songs. On occassions I have woken up and remembered them sufficiently to bring them from the dream state and into waking reality. The songs I heard were already complete, yet I had to work on a strand at a time in order to make them real.
I can already hear some of the arguments in my mind as to how this would occur. I've already heard songs, is the first argument, so that is why I would hear them in a dream. Yet I'd never heard these particular ones. But it does make one wonder about how an image can exist before the work it takes to create it.
Back to the evolution of the computer, were These little adaptions created through need and imagination.
The original comment was that George Bush couldn't give birth to an aardvark. I think with technology evolving, that would not be an impossibility.
Unless things have changed the last few years, I'm aware of the evidence and am also aware that we still need to find more in order to progress from interpretation to downright surety.
The whole objective/subjective thing is interesting. How do subjective beings practice objectivity? When I did meditation back in the 90s, I learnt that to be objective was the goal. This was apparently done by lifting oneself from the river of thinking, and becoming objective to it. It was said that dual thinking can never be objective, and one must merge the duality and become whole etc etc, before objectivity becomes a state of awareness. Personally I found the whole thing too difficult mainly, but did experience one or two fleeting moments when I realized I was not my thinking. How do scientists practice objectivity? It seems to me a great deal is merely a consensuis of opinion, which can become a kind of truth. But I would have to question this whole idea of objectivity. Sure, 2+2 is objectively 4.
Unless things have changed the last few years, I'm aware of the evidence and am also aware that we still need to find more in order to progress from interpretation to downright surety.
The whole objective/subjective thing is interesting. How do subjective beings practice objectivity? When I did meditation back in the 90s, I learnt that to be objective was the goal. This was apparently done by lifting oneself from the river of thinking, and becoming objective to it. It was said that dual thinking can never be objective, and one must merge the duality and become whole etc etc, before objectivity becomes a state of awareness. Personally I found the whole thing too difficult mainly, but did experience one or two fleeting moments when I realized I was not my thinking. How do scientists practice objectivity? It seems to me a great deal is merely a consensuis of opinion, which can become a kind of truth. But I would have to question this whole idea of objectivity. Sure, 2+2 is objectively 4.
While it might be true that higher intellectual capacity is a favorable trait that is even now being selected for, the idea that we as a species are learning and that what we learn is being passed on genetically to our descendants is basically Lamarkian evolution, and that has been disproven.
Again it depends which system one is focusing on. In a physical sense I guess the individual does not pass these things on. But on a personal evolutionary sense I am very interested in accumalated experience over lifetimes which the individual has lived. When the tipping point is reached, a possible individual evolution can occur. Obviously I'm aware this is not physical science, nor mainstream, but I've never been bothered by the popularity in some circles that such thinking may bring. I don't choose to simply disbelieve every book I have read on the subject of past life therapy, or of spiritual dimensions and the experiences of untold humans.
And again it seems to me that sooner or later consciousness is going to reach the kind of stage where other abilities of the mind become apparent, and born into the future generations.
Don't agree entirely. The mind may need to be realized rather than evolved, although the realization would be an evolution I guess.
Don't agree entirely. The mind may need to be realized rather than evolved, although the realization would be an evolution I guess.
That would be interesting to see, but it would still require biological evolution to support the expanded mental capacity, and it would occur over a segment of the popuation, and NOT on individuals.
We only see and hear according to the frequencies we are able to interpret.
Mind is not only resident in the physical traits of the body. There is some interesting research into this. Obviously the continuation of mind, OBEs and other such nasty fields of research will have to come up with verifiable evidence. And I think it is technology itself that will be the means to begin undertsanding these abilities beyond the physical senses, that we all possess.
I believe that part of this reality's purpose is to give you the very freedom you said you would lose if there was a God. I mentioned before that this reality has no referee. You are free to do, think, and say as you want. In the 5th dimension you only do what you are allowed to do but the 5th dimension is perfect so you would have no complaints, eternally. As for the paranoia, look at what I'm sharing, under the circumstances I'm sharing it. If anybody has anything to worry about regarding God and the associated issues, its me.
What I'm saying is 100% verifiable.
Well if your original claims weren't unbelievable enough,(for which no evidence is provided) You now seem to think that adding even more unsupported claims about dimensions, eternity etc will help to explain them?
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
I do and I got as close to proving it as anybody ever will. I created his image with some help from some computers. The proof was on the other side of the fabric of space-time. Getting there found God and as I brought mathematics with me I was able to later create the same thing I saw. He built confirmation into the laws of physics of who his son was so it could be proved later on. I'm aware that hearing over the internet is a bad place to hear this but as I explained I have no choice. This is the quickest way to inform as many people as possible.
You're missing the point about omnipotence. 'IF' there is an omnipotent God ( can do anything it wants, is all powerful etc) And this God specifically wants me to believe it exists then it logically follows that God would know what I would require as sufficient evidence. And seeing that there is NO evidence that God does exist, then it also follows that either this God exists but does not want me to believe it does or this God simply does not exist. God would know that I would not believe your suggested 'Proof'.
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
Your right about getting the proof. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. I did the majority of this *** process myself and now I'm going to have to do the rest as well. Your worth your weight in gold.
Come back when you've got the proof. Good luck, our fate as a species may just rely on it. Until then I will have to assume that there is no proof. Prove me wrong!!
regards
Hi Boneidol.
Still in Sydney and soon to leave for home again, so I will be as quick as I can.
Hehehe, from George W Bush to an Aardvark.....not all that far removed NOW from an aardvark is poor GWB, so I would not be surprised that a more intelligent 'evolved issue' such as an aardvark may 'arise' from that quarter! At least an aardvark would have more sense and integrity if nothing else, heh?
And as to 'pantheism' expressing its 'purposes' via natural evolution......
Hmmmmmm....that would fall under the 'a-priori' divine purpose category which, no matter how I slice it, comes out NO. Essentially because any purpose that would be 'expressed eventually' as part of the evolved life form's 'philosopies' would be just that, EVOLVED PHILOSOPHIES and not REALITY BASED (since the 'reality' in a 'pantheistic' scenario is dependent on WHO AND HOW MANY 'gods' and 'demons' were involved.....which is something that would vary with the believer types and numbers and culturally evolved/inherited/practiced 'panteon'. I hope I have excplained that OK in my rush to leave and get back home today!
The 'dreaming' aspect I think falls under the deja vu' umbrella of 'familiar' sentence/sensation. One aspect of deja vu' is that one may SUBCONSCIOUSLY have already heard ONESELF as it were 'composing' the particular sentence (or already experienced and 'immediately forgotten' the particular sensation) which a fraction of a nanosecond later 'arrives' into the CONSCIOUS levels of the brain-mind as something 'new' that was somehow 'familiar without being able to put one;'s finger on it as to why it should be so. That is also a large part of the creative process and especially a large part of the 'talent' of most creative minds....because the ability to 'momentarily forget' and 'see fresh' certain 'perspectives' (and senstions and literary text/sentences/meanings/concepts etc) can lead to NEW INSIGHTS that would not have arisen had the mind always 'controlled' SUBCONSCIOUS-TO-CONSCIOUS 'interaction'. In other words, deja vu' is an 'occupational hazard' for creative and sensitive intellects with the talent to momentarily disassociate their minds from the well-trodden path and allow 'lateral thinking' and 'brainstorming' which tightly 'controlled' (complacent and or unimaginative and/or staid?) intellects find very difficult to do.
The computer evolution, as most things from humans, was a mixture of 'pure research' ("Curiosity killed the cat" etc comes to mind there) and 'necessity' (the old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind for that). Man is the most curious 'ape' and the most well equipped/evolved mentally and physically and socially and 'abstractly/scientifically' to satisfy that natural curiosity. And man is also the greatest SELF-MAKER' of NICHE STATES in civilisation/economic/political etc 'NEEDS' that are not 'basic' but nevertheless may become a 'must have' in the 'new self-created niche' scheme of things, whether socially/economically/scientifically or even ARTISTICALLY/AESTHETICALLY.
Gotta go now.....I hope that's helped in some of what you were 'wondering out loud' about there, mate!
Cheers!
PS: Just before logging out I read your query "how do subjective beings practice objectivity". The scientific method and its protocols and self/peer-correcting consequences based on longterm accumulation of surround 'conyextual' objective knowledge that eventually leads to a SELF-CONSISTENT and COHERENT 'encapsulation/record' of the results/conclusions that ALL beings are free to test for themselves as to logic/consistency and relevance to reality as is observed by all everywhere at all times and in all cases under the common conditions applying to the particular case under study. That is what the scientific method 'intellectual toolkit' was invented for....because of the increasingly recognised NECESSITY for OBJECTIVE THOUGHT/PROCESSES that temporarily removed the SUBJECTIVE thought/being from the 'comprehension process/equation' UNTIL THE CONCLUSIONS AND KNOWLEDGE OBTAINED THEREBY could be trusted/tested to allow FURTHER SUBJECTIVE 'interpretations' of that OBJECTIVE construct in the wider SUBJECTIVE construct that man 'timelessly exists' in INTERNALLY while still having to survive 'temporally' EXTERNALLY in the NATURAL reality as is. That's as deep as I can get into this for now, Boneidol. I trust that has clarified the 'conundrum' sufficiently? Cheers!
RC.
.
just my two cents on this debate.
I believe all that distinguishes us from the rest of the organic matter in a conscious mind. For some people that is a hard thing to comprehend.
Well if your original claims weren't unbelievable enough,(for which no evidence is provided) You now seem to think that adding even more unsupported claims about dimensions, eternity etc will help to explain them?
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
You're missing the point about omnipotence. 'IF' there is an omnipotent God ( can do anything it wants, is all powerful etc) And this God specifically wants me to believe it exists then it logically follows that God would know what I would require as sufficient evidence. And seeing that there is NO evidence that God does exist, then it also follows that either this God exists but does not want me to believe it does or this God simply does not exist. God would know that I would not believe your suggested 'Proof'.
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
Come back when you've got the proof. Good luck, our fate as a species may just rely on it. Until then I will have to assume that there is no proof. Prove me wrong!!
regards
Try to appreciate I have no descriptive writing skills and I am trying to describe a scientific process visually. Think of how easy it would be to follow this by watching each step.
Consider there is infinite light outside the universe. It would be the 5th dimension we didnt know about before this.
As for eternity. The perfect code, just is. It has no beginning, it has no end. Its just is perfect. God is the same. He just is.
As the light returned, I observed that, though he is everywhere, he isnt at the same time. He knows everything but he's not involved that closely, if you know what I mean. Instead of interpreting paranoia, think of this; All the thieves, rapists, murderers, and general scumbags are going to get exactly what they deserve. Anybody who has done you wrong and got away with, really doesnt and the same works for you. On this level he would be the light, if you met him, he would be the father. I, and I so to speak. Do you need to me to elaborate further?
I believe there are two main points to this reality. One is to test you without him, that is why you cant see him. The second is for you to learn about yourself, your own true character. As for proof, he has sent proof before and he built confirmation into the laws of physics.
I know. I'll do it myslef at any cost. If you helped me it would be great and positive. Your not helping, so when I get it I'll spit it at you.
regards
The mind is limited by the physical. For the mind to evolve, the physical must evolve.
QUOTE (Boneidol+)
Within the next decade or so, expect consciousness to catch up in terms of objectively dispalying its many talents, which until now have remained in the domain of the subjective.
That would be interesting to see, but it would still require biological evolution to support the expanded mental capacity, and it would occur over a segment of the popuation, and NOT on individuals.
That would be interesting to see, but it would still require biological evolution to support the expanded mental capacity, and it would occur over a segment of the popuation, and NOT on individuals.
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Oct 18 2008, 12:55 AM)
Evolved from 'apes' via successive versions of 'ape-like' and then more 'human-loke' precursors and transitional states. Remembering that 'spectrum' of prior states to the present state will help keep things in perspective and avoid needless irrelevant arguments based on confusing misleading assumptions and simplistic statements......on anybody's part. :-)
That depends on WHICH brain-mind 'intellect' you had in mind that would have such a prior 'conceptual image'.
If you mean HUMAN brain-mind, then NO is the answer....since the developmental histroy is well docummented and the idea/technology of a 'computer' early on was that of rudimentary 'machines' and 'logics' systems (like abacus and mathematical logics etc) that remained so until Von Neumman et al 'invented the 'necessary logics for more advanced 'processing systems' that started out as simple/limited, crude and clunky and gradually evolved into the early diode-based computing machines/logics/algorithms and----given the later advanced hardware and self-directing/learning software and the advent of the transistor and its miniaturisation and low cost/availability/flexibility and HIGHER PACKING/COMPLEXITY POTENTIAL etc-------became, or should I say EVOLVED/DEVELOPED into the COMPLEX AND FLEXIBLE 'thinking' as well as 'processing' machine intellects we have today. So the present 'computer' is NOT the 'same' as the earliest precursor elements and concepts, but a 'product' of the evolution/development from such.
However, if you mean a SUPERHUMAN and/or SUPERNATURAL brain-mind (ie, a 'god intelligence' or some sort of 'super advanced alien intelligence' or whatever), then the answer is STILL NO.....since if either of that were involved, then the 'computer' concept and embodiment would have been IMAGED and embodied as the computer as it is NOW, or in an EVER MORE ADVANCED FORM than it has reached at present!.....and not needed to 'evolve/develop' AT ALL from primitive precursor form to present form in the 'transitional evolutionary steps' that it DID take took to do in reality.
See the corollaries/relevances for our human body/brain-mind evolutionary/developmental 'steps' from primitive 'precursor' states to present 'evolved' state, mate?
Cheers all!
RC.
.
Thanks RC, for those good explanations. Would the idea of Pantheism allow the natural state of evolution to be ther vehicle for intended purposes? Silly question I know, because we can't answer it with surety. Whether these kinds of things will become relevent to science is also a matter of science evolving. Nothing much would have to change, except from purposeless to purposeful.
I have dreams where I hear songs. On occassions I have woken up and remembered them sufficiently to bring them from the dream state and into waking reality. The songs I heard were already complete, yet I had to work on a strand at a time in order to make them real.
I can already hear some of the arguments in my mind as to how this would occur. I've already heard songs, is the first argument, so that is why I would hear them in a dream. Yet I'd never heard these particular ones. But it does make one wonder about how an image can exist before the work it takes to create it.
Back to the evolution of the computer, were These little adaptions created through need and imagination.
The original comment was that George Bush couldn't give birth to an aardvark. I think with technology evolving, that would not be an impossibility.
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 18 2008, 02:08 AM)
QUOTE
It's quite possible. The evidence I've seen leads me to believe that the conclusions are correct. As for proving the case, just look at the evidence objectively, it proves itself.
Unless things have changed the last few years, I'm aware of the evidence and am also aware that we still need to find more in order to progress from interpretation to downright surety.
The whole objective/subjective thing is interesting. How do subjective beings practice objectivity? When I did meditation back in the 90s, I learnt that to be objective was the goal. This was apparently done by lifting oneself from the river of thinking, and becoming objective to it. It was said that dual thinking can never be objective, and one must merge the duality and become whole etc etc, before objectivity becomes a state of awareness. Personally I found the whole thing too difficult mainly, but did experience one or two fleeting moments when I realized I was not my thinking. How do scientists practice objectivity? It seems to me a great deal is merely a consensuis of opinion, which can become a kind of truth. But I would have to question this whole idea of objectivity. Sure, 2+2 is objectively 4.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| It's quite possible. The evidence I've seen leads me to believe that the conclusions are correct. As for proving the case, just look at the evidence objectively, it proves itself. |
Unless things have changed the last few years, I'm aware of the evidence and am also aware that we still need to find more in order to progress from interpretation to downright surety.
The whole objective/subjective thing is interesting. How do subjective beings practice objectivity? When I did meditation back in the 90s, I learnt that to be objective was the goal. This was apparently done by lifting oneself from the river of thinking, and becoming objective to it. It was said that dual thinking can never be objective, and one must merge the duality and become whole etc etc, before objectivity becomes a state of awareness. Personally I found the whole thing too difficult mainly, but did experience one or two fleeting moments when I realized I was not my thinking. How do scientists practice objectivity? It seems to me a great deal is merely a consensuis of opinion, which can become a kind of truth. But I would have to question this whole idea of objectivity. Sure, 2+2 is objectively 4.
While it might be true that higher intellectual capacity is a favorable trait that is even now being selected for, the idea that we as a species are learning and that what we learn is being passed on genetically to our descendants is basically Lamarkian evolution, and that has been disproven.
Again it depends which system one is focusing on. In a physical sense I guess the individual does not pass these things on. But on a personal evolutionary sense I am very interested in accumalated experience over lifetimes which the individual has lived. When the tipping point is reached, a possible individual evolution can occur. Obviously I'm aware this is not physical science, nor mainstream, but I've never been bothered by the popularity in some circles that such thinking may bring. I don't choose to simply disbelieve every book I have read on the subject of past life therapy, or of spiritual dimensions and the experiences of untold humans.
And again it seems to me that sooner or later consciousness is going to reach the kind of stage where other abilities of the mind become apparent, and born into the future generations.
QUOTE
The mind is limited by the physical. For the mind to evolve, the physical must evolve.
Don't agree entirely. The mind may need to be realized rather than evolved, although the realization would be an evolution I guess.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| The mind is limited by the physical. For the mind to evolve, the physical must evolve. |
Don't agree entirely. The mind may need to be realized rather than evolved, although the realization would be an evolution I guess.
That would be interesting to see, but it would still require biological evolution to support the expanded mental capacity, and it would occur over a segment of the popuation, and NOT on individuals.
We only see and hear according to the frequencies we are able to interpret.
Mind is not only resident in the physical traits of the body. There is some interesting research into this. Obviously the continuation of mind, OBEs and other such nasty fields of research will have to come up with verifiable evidence. And I think it is technology itself that will be the means to begin undertsanding these abilities beyond the physical senses, that we all possess.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 17 2008, 07:41 PM)
I believe that part of this reality's purpose is to give you the very freedom you said you would lose if there was a God. I mentioned before that this reality has no referee. You are free to do, think, and say as you want. In the 5th dimension you only do what you are allowed to do but the 5th dimension is perfect so you would have no complaints, eternally. As for the paranoia, look at what I'm sharing, under the circumstances I'm sharing it. If anybody has anything to worry about regarding God and the associated issues, its me.
What I'm saying is 100% verifiable.
Well if your original claims weren't unbelievable enough,(for which no evidence is provided) You now seem to think that adding even more unsupported claims about dimensions, eternity etc will help to explain them?
QUOTE
sinister utopia.
I couldnt edit my last reply.
Though you might interpret some paranoia in this understanding, it would be better to see him as a father figure opposed to a government. if you know what I mean.
I couldnt edit my last reply.
Though you might interpret some paranoia in this understanding, it would be better to see him as a father figure opposed to a government. if you know what I mean.
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| sinister utopia. I couldnt edit my last reply. Though you might interpret some paranoia in this understanding, it would be better to see him as a father figure opposed to a government. if you know what I mean. |
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
I do and I got as close to proving it as anybody ever will. I created his image with some help from some computers. The proof was on the other side of the fabric of space-time. Getting there found God and as I brought mathematics with me I was able to later create the same thing I saw. He built confirmation into the laws of physics of who his son was so it could be proved later on. I'm aware that hearing over the internet is a bad place to hear this but as I explained I have no choice. This is the quickest way to inform as many people as possible.
You're missing the point about omnipotence. 'IF' there is an omnipotent God ( can do anything it wants, is all powerful etc) And this God specifically wants me to believe it exists then it logically follows that God would know what I would require as sufficient evidence. And seeing that there is NO evidence that God does exist, then it also follows that either this God exists but does not want me to believe it does or this God simply does not exist. God would know that I would not believe your suggested 'Proof'.
QUOTE
Many people mention attention. Do you really think I give a flying *** about attention? This is the internet its not entirely real nor does it give an accurate account of reality. Personnally speaking. I am sharing this information because it's true. No other reason.
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Many people mention attention. Do you really think I give a flying *** about attention? This is the internet its not entirely real nor does it give an accurate account of reality. Personnally speaking. I am sharing this information because it's true. No other reason. |
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
Your right about getting the proof. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. I did the majority of this *** process myself and now I'm going to have to do the rest as well. Your worth your weight in gold.
Come back when you've got the proof. Good luck, our fate as a species may just rely on it. Until then I will have to assume that there is no proof. Prove me wrong!!
regards
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 18 2008, 12:24 PM)
Thanks RC, for those good explanations. Would the idea of Pantheism allow the natural state of evolution to be ther vehicle for intended purposes? Silly question I know, because we can't answer it with surety. Whether these kinds of things will become relevent to science is also a matter of science evolving. Nothing much would have to change, except from purposeless to purposeful.
I have dreams where I hear songs. On occassions I have woken up and remembered them sufficiently to bring them from the dream state and into waking reality. The songs I heard were already complete, yet I had to work on a strand at a time in order to make them real.
I can already hear some of the arguments in my mind as to how this would occur. I've already heard songs, is the first argument, so that is why I would hear them in a dream. Yet I'd never heard these particular ones. But it does make one wonder about how an image can exist before the work it takes to create it.
Back to the evolution of the computer, were These little adaptions created through need and imagination.
The original comment was that George Bush couldn't give birth to an aardvark. I think with technology evolving, that would not be an impossibility.
Hi Boneidol.
Still in Sydney and soon to leave for home again, so I will be as quick as I can.
Hehehe, from George W Bush to an Aardvark.....not all that far removed NOW from an aardvark is poor GWB, so I would not be surprised that a more intelligent 'evolved issue' such as an aardvark may 'arise' from that quarter! At least an aardvark would have more sense and integrity if nothing else, heh?
And as to 'pantheism' expressing its 'purposes' via natural evolution......
Hmmmmmm....that would fall under the 'a-priori' divine purpose category which, no matter how I slice it, comes out NO. Essentially because any purpose that would be 'expressed eventually' as part of the evolved life form's 'philosopies' would be just that, EVOLVED PHILOSOPHIES and not REALITY BASED (since the 'reality' in a 'pantheistic' scenario is dependent on WHO AND HOW MANY 'gods' and 'demons' were involved.....which is something that would vary with the believer types and numbers and culturally evolved/inherited/practiced 'panteon'. I hope I have excplained that OK in my rush to leave and get back home today!
The 'dreaming' aspect I think falls under the deja vu' umbrella of 'familiar' sentence/sensation. One aspect of deja vu' is that one may SUBCONSCIOUSLY have already heard ONESELF as it were 'composing' the particular sentence (or already experienced and 'immediately forgotten' the particular sensation) which a fraction of a nanosecond later 'arrives' into the CONSCIOUS levels of the brain-mind as something 'new' that was somehow 'familiar without being able to put one;'s finger on it as to why it should be so. That is also a large part of the creative process and especially a large part of the 'talent' of most creative minds....because the ability to 'momentarily forget' and 'see fresh' certain 'perspectives' (and senstions and literary text/sentences/meanings/concepts etc) can lead to NEW INSIGHTS that would not have arisen had the mind always 'controlled' SUBCONSCIOUS-TO-CONSCIOUS 'interaction'. In other words, deja vu' is an 'occupational hazard' for creative and sensitive intellects with the talent to momentarily disassociate their minds from the well-trodden path and allow 'lateral thinking' and 'brainstorming' which tightly 'controlled' (complacent and or unimaginative and/or staid?) intellects find very difficult to do.
The computer evolution, as most things from humans, was a mixture of 'pure research' ("Curiosity killed the cat" etc comes to mind there) and 'necessity' (the old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind for that). Man is the most curious 'ape' and the most well equipped/evolved mentally and physically and socially and 'abstractly/scientifically' to satisfy that natural curiosity. And man is also the greatest SELF-MAKER' of NICHE STATES in civilisation/economic/political etc 'NEEDS' that are not 'basic' but nevertheless may become a 'must have' in the 'new self-created niche' scheme of things, whether socially/economically/scientifically or even ARTISTICALLY/AESTHETICALLY.
Gotta go now.....I hope that's helped in some of what you were 'wondering out loud' about there, mate!
Cheers!
PS: Just before logging out I read your query "how do subjective beings practice objectivity". The scientific method and its protocols and self/peer-correcting consequences based on longterm accumulation of surround 'conyextual' objective knowledge that eventually leads to a SELF-CONSISTENT and COHERENT 'encapsulation/record' of the results/conclusions that ALL beings are free to test for themselves as to logic/consistency and relevance to reality as is observed by all everywhere at all times and in all cases under the common conditions applying to the particular case under study. That is what the scientific method 'intellectual toolkit' was invented for....because of the increasingly recognised NECESSITY for OBJECTIVE THOUGHT/PROCESSES that temporarily removed the SUBJECTIVE thought/being from the 'comprehension process/equation' UNTIL THE CONCLUSIONS AND KNOWLEDGE OBTAINED THEREBY could be trusted/tested to allow FURTHER SUBJECTIVE 'interpretations' of that OBJECTIVE construct in the wider SUBJECTIVE construct that man 'timelessly exists' in INTERNALLY while still having to survive 'temporally' EXTERNALLY in the NATURAL reality as is. That's as deep as I can get into this for now, Boneidol. I trust that has clarified the 'conundrum' sufficiently? Cheers!
RC.
.
I have dreams where I hear songs. On occassions I have woken up and remembered them sufficiently to bring them from the dream state and into waking reality. The songs I heard were already complete, yet I had to work on a strand at a time in order to make them real.
I can already hear some of the arguments in my mind as to how this would occur. I've already heard songs, is the first argument, so that is why I would hear them in a dream. Yet I'd never heard these particular ones. But it does make one wonder about how an image can exist before the work it takes to create it.
Back to the evolution of the computer, were These little adaptions created through need and imagination.
The original comment was that George Bush couldn't give birth to an aardvark. I think with technology evolving, that would not be an impossibility.
Hi Boneidol.
Still in Sydney and soon to leave for home again, so I will be as quick as I can.
Hehehe, from George W Bush to an Aardvark.....not all that far removed NOW from an aardvark is poor GWB, so I would not be surprised that a more intelligent 'evolved issue' such as an aardvark may 'arise' from that quarter! At least an aardvark would have more sense and integrity if nothing else, heh?
And as to 'pantheism' expressing its 'purposes' via natural evolution......
Hmmmmmm....that would fall under the 'a-priori' divine purpose category which, no matter how I slice it, comes out NO. Essentially because any purpose that would be 'expressed eventually' as part of the evolved life form's 'philosopies' would be just that, EVOLVED PHILOSOPHIES and not REALITY BASED (since the 'reality' in a 'pantheistic' scenario is dependent on WHO AND HOW MANY 'gods' and 'demons' were involved.....which is something that would vary with the believer types and numbers and culturally evolved/inherited/practiced 'panteon'. I hope I have excplained that OK in my rush to leave and get back home today!
The 'dreaming' aspect I think falls under the deja vu' umbrella of 'familiar' sentence/sensation. One aspect of deja vu' is that one may SUBCONSCIOUSLY have already heard ONESELF as it were 'composing' the particular sentence (or already experienced and 'immediately forgotten' the particular sensation) which a fraction of a nanosecond later 'arrives' into the CONSCIOUS levels of the brain-mind as something 'new' that was somehow 'familiar without being able to put one;'s finger on it as to why it should be so. That is also a large part of the creative process and especially a large part of the 'talent' of most creative minds....because the ability to 'momentarily forget' and 'see fresh' certain 'perspectives' (and senstions and literary text/sentences/meanings/concepts etc) can lead to NEW INSIGHTS that would not have arisen had the mind always 'controlled' SUBCONSCIOUS-TO-CONSCIOUS 'interaction'. In other words, deja vu' is an 'occupational hazard' for creative and sensitive intellects with the talent to momentarily disassociate their minds from the well-trodden path and allow 'lateral thinking' and 'brainstorming' which tightly 'controlled' (complacent and or unimaginative and/or staid?) intellects find very difficult to do.
The computer evolution, as most things from humans, was a mixture of 'pure research' ("Curiosity killed the cat" etc comes to mind there) and 'necessity' (the old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind for that). Man is the most curious 'ape' and the most well equipped/evolved mentally and physically and socially and 'abstractly/scientifically' to satisfy that natural curiosity. And man is also the greatest SELF-MAKER' of NICHE STATES in civilisation/economic/political etc 'NEEDS' that are not 'basic' but nevertheless may become a 'must have' in the 'new self-created niche' scheme of things, whether socially/economically/scientifically or even ARTISTICALLY/AESTHETICALLY.
Gotta go now.....I hope that's helped in some of what you were 'wondering out loud' about there, mate!
Cheers!
PS: Just before logging out I read your query "how do subjective beings practice objectivity". The scientific method and its protocols and self/peer-correcting consequences based on longterm accumulation of surround 'conyextual' objective knowledge that eventually leads to a SELF-CONSISTENT and COHERENT 'encapsulation/record' of the results/conclusions that ALL beings are free to test for themselves as to logic/consistency and relevance to reality as is observed by all everywhere at all times and in all cases under the common conditions applying to the particular case under study. That is what the scientific method 'intellectual toolkit' was invented for....because of the increasingly recognised NECESSITY for OBJECTIVE THOUGHT/PROCESSES that temporarily removed the SUBJECTIVE thought/being from the 'comprehension process/equation' UNTIL THE CONCLUSIONS AND KNOWLEDGE OBTAINED THEREBY could be trusted/tested to allow FURTHER SUBJECTIVE 'interpretations' of that OBJECTIVE construct in the wider SUBJECTIVE construct that man 'timelessly exists' in INTERNALLY while still having to survive 'temporally' EXTERNALLY in the NATURAL reality as is. That's as deep as I can get into this for now, Boneidol. I trust that has clarified the 'conundrum' sufficiently? Cheers!
RC.
.
QUOTE (ahmd+Oct 17 2008, 08:54 PM)
Is there evidence God Exists?
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.
Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences right in front of us.
We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
What proof is there?
Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.
We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.
One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."
Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.
After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?
(see also "Quran")
read more
What is the Origin of God?
Does God have limitations?
Why did God create everything?
Did God create evil too?
Does God know future?
Why so many religions?
Can we prove Quran is from God?
Why does Quran say, "We & He"?
God of the Jews and Christians?
Will all of us be treated equally?
godallah.com/
I am new to the idea religion and I have no understanding of it. I could say the same for history. I just know what I saw and as you wrote
"We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind."
Hopefully you will get to see what has been found soon and you can make up your own mind after that.
Yes. Allah has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists and more important, what we should do once we come to this realization.
Allah has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact, Allah does in fact, exist.
Miracles of prophets and messengers of Allah have come to people through the ages. Moses, peace be upon him, showed many miracles to pharaoh and to the children of Israel. Plagues, locusts, water turning to blood, his stick becoming a snake, the voice in the burning bush and the parting of the Red Sea are clear miracles for the people of Moses time.
Again, Allah sent Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him, with clear miracles for the people of his time. Speaking from the cradle while still a new born infant, creating birds from clay, curing the sick, giving sight to the blind and even bringing a dead man back to life, were all clear signs to the people to know Jesus, peace be upon him, was a messenger of Allah as was Moses before him.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, was the last and final messenger of Allah, and he was sent to all of mankind. Allah sent him with a number of miracles, not the least of which was the Quran. The predictions and prophecies of Muhammad, peace be upon him, have come true even in this century and the Quran has been used to convince even scientists of the existence of Allah.
[Please visit "Science Proves Allah": Watch video of famous scientists admit Quran is from Allah and even accept Islam]
The Quran is the best of proofs for the existence of Allah and today over one and half billion people memorize and recite from the exact text, in the exact same language it was revealed in; Arabic. More than 10 million Muslims have completely memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, and can recite it from memory without looking at it.
No one sees or hears Allah, not even the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Nor are we able to use our senses to make some kind of contact with Him. However, we are encouraged in Islam to use our senses and our common sense to recognize this entire universe could not possibly come into existence on its own. Something had to design it all and then put it into motion. This is beyond our ability to do, yet it is something we can understand.
We know from the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, the proofs for the existence of God (Allah) are most obvious to us in our everyday surroundings. Anyone with understanding would quickly acknowledge His existence provided they are not so stubborn as to ignore the obvious evidences right in front of us.
We don't have to see an artist to recognize a painting, correct? So, if we see paintings without seeing artists painting them, in the same way, we can believe Allah created everything without having to see Him (or touch, or hear, etc.).
What proof is there?
Note: "Proving" God exists is really not our purpose. We are only interested in providing clear statements based on facts and logic and then allow the individual decide for themselves who they would like to believe. There have always been people who believed in the existence of God and there have always been those who have denied in His existence. We must realize there are those who will never believe no matter how much proof or evidence we produce. The reason is some people don't want to believe in a Creator or Sustainer. They would not like to consider one day they will have to answer for their actions and for their refusal to acknowledge their Benefactor to whom they owe their very existence. We come to know it is not so much a matter of us trying to convey our beliefs as it is for them to set aside preconceived prejudices against proper belief. Meaning: this is really a matter of guidance from Above. If they refuse even with evident proofs in front of them, this is not between us and them; it is between them and their Creator. Again, it is not our job to "prove" anything to anyone. We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind.
We just begin with simple logic. When something is right in front of our eyes it is difficult to deny it, right? Asking rhetorical questions can be very helpful in presenting our case. Begin by asking the question; "Can you prove you exist?" Yes, of course you can. You merely use your senses to determine what you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things He has created and the way He cares for things and sustains us, to know there is no doubt of His existence.
One approach is to suggest simple yet convincing experiments anyone could comprehend. For instance, say to someone, "Consider this the next time you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not."
Another example is have them consider what might happen if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Or ask someone to consider what it would be like if someone told us about a fast food restaurant operating itself without any people there? The food just cooks itself, files from the kitchen to the table and then when we are done, the dishes jump back the kitchen to wash themselves. This is too crazy for anyone to even think about.
After reflecting on all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the cells in a microscope and then think all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident"?
(see also "Quran")
read more
What is the Origin of God?
Does God have limitations?
Why did God create everything?
Did God create evil too?
Does God know future?
Why so many religions?
Can we prove Quran is from God?
Why does Quran say, "We & He"?
God of the Jews and Christians?
Will all of us be treated equally?
godallah.com/
I am new to the idea religion and I have no understanding of it. I could say the same for history. I just know what I saw and as you wrote
"We only need to present the facts in truth and allow the listener to make up their own mind."
Hopefully you will get to see what has been found soon and you can make up your own mind after that.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 17 2008, 09:00 PM)
Speaking of attracting weirdos.
No dude. What you typed was on a whole other level of weird. You weirdo.
No dude. What you typed was on a whole other level of weird. You weirdo.
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 17 2008, 09:24 PM)
Ok, I'm convinced.
You're a fucktard.
Hypothetical situation. If you said that to my face I would break your jaw soon after. Thats a scientific fact. Maybe after you felt how quickly and easily your jaw broke, you might believe me then.
You're a fucktard.
Hypothetical situation. If you said that to my face I would break your jaw soon after. Thats a scientific fact. Maybe after you felt how quickly and easily your jaw broke, you might believe me then.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 17 2008, 09:50 PM)
At which point did an ape give birth or rise to a human? Because that is what happened right? Is there a purpose? Could a human evolve to the point where an aardvark could evolve from it?
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
Dolphins were monkeys!
We all come from RNA and single cells right? And now with the ability to hack matter, perhaps we can tweak a few genetic switches and an aardvark could pop out.:-) I know humans can become hyenas.:-))
Dolphins were monkeys!
QUOTE (RealityCheck+Oct 18 2008, 09:46 PM)
Hi Boneidol.
Still in Sydney and soon to leave for home again, so I will be as quick as I can.
Hehehe, from George W Bush to an Aardvark.....not all that far removed NOW from an aardvark is poor GWB, so I would not be surprised that a more intelligent 'evolved issue' such as an aardvark may 'arise' from that quarter! At least an aardvark would have more sense and integrity if nothing else, heh?
And as to 'pantheism' expressing its 'purposes' via natural evolution......
Hmmmmmm....that would fall under the 'a-priori' divine purpose category which, no matter how I slice it, comes out NO. Essentially because any purpose that would be 'expressed eventually' as part of the evolved life form's 'philosopies' would be just that, EVOLVED PHILOSOPHIES and not REALITY BASED (since the 'reality' in a 'pantheistic' scenario is dependent on WHO AND HOW MANY 'gods' and 'demons' were involved.....which is something that would vary with the believer types and numbers and culturally evolved/inherited/practiced 'panteon'. I hope I have excplained that OK in my rush to leave and get back home today!
The 'dreaming' aspect I think falls under the deja vu' umbrella of 'familiar' sentence/sensation. One aspect of deja vu' is that one may SUBCONSCIOUSLY have already heard ONESELF as it were 'composing' the particular sentence (or already experienced and 'immediately forgotten' the particular sensation) which a fraction of a nanosecond later 'arrives' into the CONSCIOUS levels of the brain-mind as something 'new' that was somehow 'familiar without being able to put one;'s finger on it as to why it should be so. That is also a large part of the creative process and especially a large part of the 'talent' of most creative minds....because the ability to 'momentarily forget' and 'see fresh' certain 'perspectives' (and senstions and literary text/sentences/meanings/concepts etc) can lead to NEW INSIGHTS that would not have arisen had the mind always 'controlled' SUBCONSCIOUS-TO-CONSCIOUS 'interaction'. In other words, deja vu' is an 'occupational hazard' for creative and sensitive intellects with the talent to momentarily disassociate their minds from the well-trodden path and allow 'lateral thinking' and 'brainstorming' which tightly 'controlled' (complacent and or unimaginative and/or staid?) intellects find very difficult to do.
The computer evolution, as most things from humans, was a mixture of 'pure research' ("Curiosity killed the cat" etc comes to mind there) and 'necessity' (the old saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" comes to mind for that). Man is the most curious 'ape' and the most well equipped/evolved mentally and physically and socially and 'abstractly/scientifically' to satisfy that natural curiosity. And man is also the greatest SELF-MAKER' of NICHE STATES in civilisation/economic/political etc 'NEEDS' that are not 'basic' but nevertheless may become a 'must have' in the 'new self-created niche' scheme of things, whether socially/economically/scientifically or even ARTISTICALLY/AESTHETICALLY.
Gotta go now.....I hope that's helped in some of what you were 'wondering out loud' about there, mate!
Cheers!
PS: Just before logging out I read your query "how do subjective beings practice objectivity". The scientific method and its protocols and self/peer-correcting consequences based on longterm accumulation of surround 'conyextual' objective knowledge that eventually leads to a SELF-CONSISTENT and COHERENT 'encapsulation/record' of the results/conclusions that ALL beings are free to test for themselves as to logic/consistency and relevance to reality as is observed by all everywhere at all times and in all cases under the common conditions applying to the particular case under study. That is what the scientific method 'intellectual toolkit' was invented for....because of the increasingly recognised NECESSITY for OBJECTIVE THOUGHT/PROCESSES that temporarily removed the SUBJECTIVE thought/being from the 'comprehension process/equation' UNTIL THE CONCLUSIONS AND KNOWLEDGE OBTAINED THEREBY could be trusted/tested to allow FURTHER SUBJECTIVE 'interpretations' of that OBJECTIVE construct in the wider SUBJECTIVE construct that man 'timelessly exists' in INTERNALLY while still having to survive 'temporally' EXTERNALLY in the NATURAL reality as is. That's as deep as I can get into this for now, Boneidol. I trust that has clarified the 'conundrum' sufficiently? Cheers!
RC.
.
just my two cents on this debate.
I believe all that distinguishes us from the rest of the organic matter in a conscious mind. For some people that is a hard thing to comprehend.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Oct 18 2008, 06:32 PM)
Well if your original claims weren't unbelievable enough,(for which no evidence is provided) You now seem to think that adding even more unsupported claims about dimensions, eternity etc will help to explain them?
I don't care whether its a 'Government' or 'Father Figure' type, If it is monitoring my thoughts without my consent it is breaching serious ethical Human rights laws and shows a blatant disrespect for my privacy. Would you want your father or my father to be able to read your mind at will, without your consent?
You're missing the point about omnipotence. 'IF' there is an omnipotent God ( can do anything it wants, is all powerful etc) And this God specifically wants me to believe it exists then it logically follows that God would know what I would require as sufficient evidence. And seeing that there is NO evidence that God does exist, then it also follows that either this God exists but does not want me to believe it does or this God simply does not exist. God would know that I would not believe your suggested 'Proof'.
Well that is very noble of you but unfortunately you are going to have to prove it in order to convince people of reason.
Come back when you've got the proof. Good luck, our fate as a species may just rely on it. Until then I will have to assume that there is no proof. Prove me wrong!!
regards
Try to appreciate I have no descriptive writing skills and I am trying to describe a scientific process visually. Think of how easy it would be to follow this by watching each step.
Consider there is infinite light outside the universe. It would be the 5th dimension we didnt know about before this.
As for eternity. The perfect code, just is. It has no beginning, it has no end. Its just is perfect. God is the same. He just is.
As the light returned, I observed that, though he is everywhere, he isnt at the same time. He knows everything but he's not involved that closely, if you know what I mean. Instead of interpreting paranoia, think of this; All the thieves, rapists, murderers, and general scumbags are going to get exactly what they deserve. Anybody who has done you wrong and got away with, really doesnt and the same works for you. On this level he would be the light, if you met him, he would be the father. I, and I so to speak. Do you need to me to elaborate further?
I believe there are two main points to this reality. One is to test you without him, that is why you cant see him. The second is for you to learn about yourself, your own true character. As for proof, he has sent proof before and he built confirmation into the laws of physics.
I know. I'll do it myslef at any cost. If you helped me it would be great and positive. Your not helping, so when I get it I'll spit it at you.
regards
VDchile
You are a loon, a liar and a fraud. Please stop wasting our time.
Grumpy
You are a loon, a liar and a fraud. Please stop wasting our time.
Grumpy
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 19 2008, 09:30 PM)
Hypothetical situation. If you said that to my face I would break your jaw soon after. Thats a scientific fact. Maybe after you felt how quickly and easily your jaw broke, you might believe me then.
So now it's physical threats? So much for that "high road"...
So now it's physical threats? So much for that "high road"...
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
I am trying to describe a scientific process visually
No, you're trying to describe the EXPERIENCE you had. It WAS NOT a scientific process!
I'll half take that back - it may have been a semi-scientific TEST of the VIDEO GAME. But it was MOST CERTAINLY NOT a SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT designed to prove or disprove the existence of God!
No, you're trying to describe the EXPERIENCE you had. It WAS NOT a scientific process!
I'll half take that back - it may have been a semi-scientific TEST of the VIDEO GAME. But it was MOST CERTAINLY NOT a SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT designed to prove or disprove the existence of God!
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
Consider there is infinite light outside the universe. It would be the 5th dimension we didnt know about before this.
More unsubstantiated GARBAGE. Where's the EVIDENCE to even SUGGEST "infinite light outside the universe"? Where's the EVIDENCE to SUPPORT your conclusion that that light would be "the 5th dimension"? And if it's a 5th dimension, it's NOT outside the universe, so again you're being CONTRADICTORY and NONSENSICAL. I'm not even going to address the rest of that post, each paragraph was more NONSENSICAL than the rest!
More unsubstantiated GARBAGE. Where's the EVIDENCE to even SUGGEST "infinite light outside the universe"? Where's the EVIDENCE to SUPPORT your conclusion that that light would be "the 5th dimension"? And if it's a 5th dimension, it's NOT outside the universe, so again you're being CONTRADICTORY and NONSENSICAL. I'm not even going to address the rest of that post, each paragraph was more NONSENSICAL than the rest!
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
I know. I'll do it myslef at any cost. If you helped me it would be great and positive. Your not helping, so when I get it I'll spit it at you.
We're NOT HELPING because you're BEYOND HELP! I personally have tried to be open to your idea, and to offer you CONSTRUCTIVE tips as to how to go about ACTUALLY being scientific, but you've IGNORED it. You've got nothing, you'll get nothing, so good luck spitting that nothing at anyone.
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD
We're NOT HELPING because you're BEYOND HELP! I personally have tried to be open to your idea, and to offer you CONSTRUCTIVE tips as to how to go about ACTUALLY being scientific, but you've IGNORED it. You've got nothing, you'll get nothing, so good luck spitting that nothing at anyone.
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 19 2008, 04:27 PM)
No dude. What you typed was on a whole other level of weird. You weirdo.
You're the one claiming to have moved at the speed of light. And then expect us to believe it. That takes weird right on into stupidity.
But hey, I'm willing to believe you're delusional... that's better than being a liar.
You're the one claiming to have moved at the speed of light. And then expect us to believe it. That takes weird right on into stupidity.
But hey, I'm willing to believe you're delusional... that's better than being a liar.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 20 2008, 12:20 PM)
You're the one claiming to have moved at the speed of light. And then expect us to believe it. That takes weird right on into stupidity.
But hey, I'm willing to believe you're delusional... that's better than being a liar.
I personally think he loaded up a couple of hits of purple microdot in his coffee while working on the game, and had an incredible trip... whoa, dude!
"Dude, you just ate the most acid I've ever seen ANYBODY eat". - Chong
But hey, I'm willing to believe you're delusional... that's better than being a liar.
I personally think he loaded up a couple of hits of purple microdot in his coffee while working on the game, and had an incredible trip... whoa, dude!
"Dude, you just ate the most acid I've ever seen ANYBODY eat". - Chong
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 19 2008, 01:37 PM)
just my two cents on this debate.
I believe all that distinguishes us from the rest of the organic matter in a conscious mind. For some people that is a hard thing to comprehend.
That would be presupposing that other sentient beings are without a human-like consciousness?
How can we know for certain what type of concsiousness other beings entail?
I believe all that distinguishes us from the rest of the organic matter in a conscious mind. For some people that is a hard thing to comprehend.
That would be presupposing that other sentient beings are without a human-like consciousness?
How can we know for certain what type of concsiousness other beings entail?
QUOTE (Grumpy+Oct 19 2008, 11:59 PM)
VDchile
You are a loon, a liar and a fraud. Please stop wasting our time.
Grumpy
I'm doing my best to relate something that is very difficult to relate, to as many people as possible. If your time is so valuable try spending it somewhere other than reading what you interpret to be lies and lunacy. Your time management is not my concern.
i think i said i wasnt going to reply to your your repetitive closed minded dribble again. my mistake.
regards.
snow white
You are a loon, a liar and a fraud. Please stop wasting our time.
Grumpy
I'm doing my best to relate something that is very difficult to relate, to as many people as possible. If your time is so valuable try spending it somewhere other than reading what you interpret to be lies and lunacy. Your time management is not my concern.
i think i said i wasnt going to reply to your your repetitive closed minded dribble again. my mistake.
regards.
snow white
QUOTE (Argyll+Oct 20 2008, 02:23 AM)
So now it's physical threats? So much for that "high road"...
More unsubstantiated GARBAGE. Where's the EVIDENCE to even SUGGEST "infinite light outside the universe"? Where's the EVIDENCE to SUPPORT your conclusion that that light would be "the 5th dimension"? And if it's a 5th dimension, it's NOT outside the universe, so again you're being CONTRADICTORY and NONSENSICAL. I'm not even going to address the rest of that post, each paragraph was more NONSENSICAL than the rest!
More unsubstantiated GARBAGE. Where's the EVIDENCE to even SUGGEST "infinite light outside the universe"? Where's the EVIDENCE to SUPPORT your conclusion that that light would be "the 5th dimension"? And if it's a 5th dimension, it's NOT outside the universe, so again you're being CONTRADICTORY and NONSENSICAL. I'm not even going to address the rest of that post, each paragraph was more NONSENSICAL than the rest!
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
I know. I'll do it myslef at any cost. If you helped me it would be great and positive. Your not helping, so when I get it I'll spit it at you.
We're NOT HELPING because you're BEYOND HELP! I personally have tried to be open to your idea, and to offer you CONSTRUCTIVE tips as to how to go about ACTUALLY being scientific, but you've IGNORED it. You've got nothing, you'll get nothing, so good luck spitting that nothing at anyone.
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD
Whats a fucktard?
We're NOT HELPING because you're BEYOND HELP! I personally have tried to be open to your idea, and to offer you CONSTRUCTIVE tips as to how to go about ACTUALLY being scientific, but you've IGNORED it. You've got nothing, you'll get nothing, so good luck spitting that nothing at anyone.
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD
Whats a fucktard?
QUOTE (Fairy+Oct 20 2008, 10:53 AM)
We're NOT HELPING because you're BEYOND HELP! I personally have tried to be open to your idea, and to offer you CONSTRUCTIVE tips as to how to go about ACTUALLY being scientific, but you've IGNORED it. You've got nothing, you'll get nothing, so good luck spitting that nothing at anyone.
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD [/QUOTE]
MOAR!
i like!
thanks for your posts!
What does moar mean?
also the type of point of view you are backing up so vigorously says a lot about your mentality.
your name too...
And yes, if you think that the ENERGY required to physically accelerate your body to light speed CAME FROM YOU because you are the ALPHA MALE... you are a FUCKTARD.
You want me to say it to your face? Fine, no problem put your face right here:
FUCKTARD [/QUOTE]
MOAR!
i like!
thanks for your posts!
What does moar mean?
also the type of point of view you are backing up so vigorously says a lot about your mentality.
your name too...
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Oct 20 2008, 04:18 PM)
I personally think he loaded up a couple of hits of purple microdot in his coffee while working on the game, and had an incredible trip... whoa, dude!
"Dude, you just ate the most acid I've ever seen ANYBODY eat". - Chong
No trip could last a year an involve so much hard work. If i could buy a trip that would allow me to meet God and Jesus I would be off my face right now.
Before I can elaborate on this subject further I would need to do some research with neurologists and geneticists etc. but I have very good reason to back up why experimentation of every kind, particularly on a conscious level, should be carried out!!!
Have you ever heard of the "stoned ape theory"?
I think we can go to alpha centauri.
"Dude, you just ate the most acid I've ever seen ANYBODY eat". - Chong
No trip could last a year an involve so much hard work. If i could buy a trip that would allow me to meet God and Jesus I would be off my face right now.
Before I can elaborate on this subject further I would need to do some research with neurologists and geneticists etc. but I have very good reason to back up why experimentation of every kind, particularly on a conscious level, should be carried out!!!
Have you ever heard of the "stoned ape theory"?
I think we can go to alpha centauri.
QUOTE (tikay+Oct 20 2008, 05:00 PM)
That would be presupposing that other sentient beings are without a human-like consciousness?
How can we know for certain what type of concsiousness other beings entail?
Yes, I think that the ability to observe and deal with time and the associated circumstances is what they lack. They live in the "now" unlike people who are ither stuck somewhere in the past, present or future.
If you kick a dog it will always remember. It probably wont plan revenge in the future but it will avoid being kicked from then on.
How can we know for certain what type of concsiousness other beings entail?
Yes, I think that the ability to observe and deal with time and the associated circumstances is what they lack. They live in the "now" unlike people who are ither stuck somewhere in the past, present or future.
If you kick a dog it will always remember. It probably wont plan revenge in the future but it will avoid being kicked from then on.
Sinister utopia
just to elaborate further. In the 5th dimension God isnt quite everywhere. I saw him occupy a certain perfect "area" the power of that perfection nearly made me disintegrate.
Consider the light and the universe like a gift. Its him but he is willing to let you have it and he's not quite there. You would only deal with the mind behind it under special circumstances.
I think Jim Morrison said it best when he said, "Thank you Lord for the white blind light"
Dont be so negative.
just to elaborate further. In the 5th dimension God isnt quite everywhere. I saw him occupy a certain perfect "area" the power of that perfection nearly made me disintegrate.
Consider the light and the universe like a gift. Its him but he is willing to let you have it and he's not quite there. You would only deal with the mind behind it under special circumstances.
I think Jim Morrison said it best when he said, "Thank you Lord for the white blind light"
Dont be so negative.
Having spent 6 months telling the most unbelievable truth under the most difficult circumstances I have found that I am wasting my time but I am pretty sure I have informed everybody (badly). In 6 months I have encountered about 6 open minds who had the balls to voice their viewpoint. Having done the majority of the work during this process I am now faced with having to tell everybody about it by myself and make the proof public by myself. I was treated like dog during this process and have been treated like a crazy person for the last 6 months. I can understand being regarded as crazy because I know exactly what I’m saying but I can’t understand being treated like a dog during this process after finding God, Jesus and giving birth to the future. No soul explains a lot.
During this process and for the last 6 months I’ve had constant opinions and criticism fired at me from people who had no immediate consequences to deal with. Everybody has a *** opinion. I was enlightened for a while, having seen what I saw but having been robbed of everything and treated like a dog the entire time, I have become unenlightened. I thought that after I made the proof public under such difficult circumstances, people would appreciate the news and take a chance to see if it was true, at no cost to themselves and for the greatest gain. *** me I was wrong. Maybe it will take another 2000 years. Tell your kids about this because you can’t teach an old dog, new tricks.
Issues arose regarding Stephen hawking. I was touching C on a regular basis and I am the most able bodied person who ever lived. He couldn’t deal with this and started passing comments. I did my best to ignore him, given his circumstances, but I lost my temper and returned the favour. He proceeded to provoke me for 4 months through a variety of ways. He is a devious little, issue filled colostomy bag who uses his disease for leverage whenever it suits him (take me away! Wahhhh!) Understandable and forgivable if it weren’t for the circumstances he is interfering with. He thinks all he can get from life is credit and because he found the field around the car, he thinks he is solely responsible for the proof and that I am making up seeing Jesus, to steal that from him. I would give him all my credit if it wasn’t for the fact that he provoked me for 4 months. I wanted the money so I could do what I love doing. *** credit. What has happened now is that I have all the credit and the scientists have all the money. It’s all backwards because of yamauchi.
Issues arose regarding yamauchi. He contributed absolutely no intellectual property whatsoever. He just sat there. His decision to keep me in Ireland during the testing is why there was only one witness to what happened. Him and his two employees just passed comments on everything I did. That was all they did. The ultimate reason I was fired was because I wasn’t happy with his video game. (You think what I’m trying to relate is unbelievable? That is unbelievable) The fact that I can’t contribute to this process anymore will mean that it will take even more time to prove. That is unbelievable. Personal opinions are getting in the way of THE plan. That is unbelievable.
I also passed a long list of racist comments directly after I was fired and with good reason. To insult an entire race and culture based on the behaviour of 2 and a half is unjustifiable. Yamauchi and his two gimps have no soul that is all.
A real opportunity has gone to waste. I have spent 6 months trying to relate what happened and how it was proven. I have answered every question as best as I could, given my complete lack of writing skills. Having said this, the majority of the comments I received, were closed minded comments relating to drugs, mental health and a resentment towards my superiority due to my alpha male status and the fact that I have all the answers, so it didn’t matter how open I was to answering questions. I don’t respond well to negativity and I give exactly what I get. So once again things deteriorated.
I am the alpha male for reaching C. Even getting just below C would give me that title but there are also long list of reasons to add to it. I have the greatest mind on the planet because I was the boss during this process. What I said went, all the way to perfection. A bunch of intellectuals will always have trouble admitting, that (the truth hurts). Even on a mathematical level, they tried a theory and I would make it or break it.
I think the main point of this process and findings was for Jesus Christ’s benefit. Secondly for people to gain an understanding of God’s mind. Having made a mess of the former I think I am fucked. It crossed my mind to mistakenly claim I was Jesus for my own survival but there are a long list of circumstances that yamauchi caused that have aggravated the whole situation. It got very messy because this man was “a grey area”. I had to play to his ego and gain emotional attachment to continue contributing to the process and I only just managed to make the code perfect before I was fired. He made an impossible job, needlessly more difficult. So I am not solely responsible for this mess.
To fix this in some small way, I beg this of you. Think about what history tells us about Jesus. He was born. He lived. At some point he began to tell as many people as he could that he was the son of God. He said his father was the God of love. He spoke of love, peace, forgiveness and understanding. He performed miracles to prove who he was. He was later crucified for his claims and he died a very painful death for what he spoke of. He had the opportunity to avoid this but he didn’t. He had the balls. This significant sacrifice could be symbolised and it has now been found in the laws of physics along with my observations. Just think about him.
I’m not a saint I’m the alpha male. I was enlightened, now I’m not. I just did my part in making a car work, virtually, according to the laws of physics. I wasn’t intending for this to happen, it just did. The resulting circumstances could get me killed, which is why I juggled it for a while. I essentially regurgitated the information because I know exactly what I’m saying. It would have been easy and good if yamauchi wasn’t involved, as all of the people who made this happen could account for their intellectual property and let the public decide for themselves what they thought. Yamauchi was involved however and things have gone bad as a result. (He didn’t do anything, intellectually or otherwise. You do the math.)
I have been constantly intoxicated for 6 months dealing with the fact that I was robbed of everything and then the fact that I had to relate my time in the 5th dimension without any proof of making a decision at C. I have since sobered up and got my act together financially and I will be taking legal action very shortly. As well as that, I am pursuing my love of the car and physics with the kind of determination that would make breaking through the fabric of space-time, look like fly-fishing. If I succeed at either you will hear about it. Thanks for the help.
Colm.
During this process and for the last 6 months I’ve had constant opinions and criticism fired at me from people who had no immediate consequences to deal with. Everybody has a *** opinion. I was enlightened for a while, having seen what I saw but having been robbed of everything and treated like a dog the entire time, I have become unenlightened. I thought that after I made the proof public under such difficult circumstances, people would appreciate the news and take a chance to see if it was true, at no cost to themselves and for the greatest gain. *** me I was wrong. Maybe it will take another 2000 years. Tell your kids about this because you can’t teach an old dog, new tricks.
Issues arose regarding Stephen hawking. I was touching C on a regular basis and I am the most able bodied person who ever lived. He couldn’t deal with this and started passing comments. I did my best to ignore him, given his circumstances, but I lost my temper and returned the favour. He proceeded to provoke me for 4 months through a variety of ways. He is a devious little, issue filled colostomy bag who uses his disease for leverage whenever it suits him (take me away! Wahhhh!) Understandable and forgivable if it weren’t for the circumstances he is interfering with. He thinks all he can get from life is credit and because he found the field around the car, he thinks he is solely responsible for the proof and that I am making up seeing Jesus, to steal that from him. I would give him all my credit if it wasn’t for the fact that he provoked me for 4 months. I wanted the money so I could do what I love doing. *** credit. What has happened now is that I have all the credit and the scientists have all the money. It’s all backwards because of yamauchi.
Issues arose regarding yamauchi. He contributed absolutely no intellectual property whatsoever. He just sat there. His decision to keep me in Ireland during the testing is why there was only one witness to what happened. Him and his two employees just passed comments on everything I did. That was all they did. The ultimate reason I was fired was because I wasn’t happy with his video game. (You think what I’m trying to relate is unbelievable? That is unbelievable) The fact that I can’t contribute to this process anymore will mean that it will take even more time to prove. That is unbelievable. Personal opinions are getting in the way of THE plan. That is unbelievable.
I also passed a long list of racist comments directly after I was fired and with good reason. To insult an entire race and culture based on the behaviour of 2 and a half is unjustifiable. Yamauchi and his two gimps have no soul that is all.
A real opportunity has gone to waste. I have spent 6 months trying to relate what happened and how it was proven. I have answered every question as best as I could, given my complete lack of writing skills. Having said this, the majority of the comments I received, were closed minded comments relating to drugs, mental health and a resentment towards my superiority due to my alpha male status and the fact that I have all the answers, so it didn’t matter how open I was to answering questions. I don’t respond well to negativity and I give exactly what I get. So once again things deteriorated.
I am the alpha male for reaching C. Even getting just below C would give me that title but there are also long list of reasons to add to it. I have the greatest mind on the planet because I was the boss during this process. What I said went, all the way to perfection. A bunch of intellectuals will always have trouble admitting, that (the truth hurts). Even on a mathematical level, they tried a theory and I would make it or break it.
I think the main point of this process and findings was for Jesus Christ’s benefit. Secondly for people to gain an understanding of God’s mind. Having made a mess of the former I think I am fucked. It crossed my mind to mistakenly claim I was Jesus for my own survival but there are a long list of circumstances that yamauchi caused that have aggravated the whole situation. It got very messy because this man was “a grey area”. I had to play to his ego and gain emotional attachment to continue contributing to the process and I only just managed to make the code perfect before I was fired. He made an impossible job, needlessly more difficult. So I am not solely responsible for this mess.
To fix this in some small way, I beg this of you. Think about what history tells us about Jesus. He was born. He lived. At some point he began to tell as many people as he could that he was the son of God. He said his father was the God of love. He spoke of love, peace, forgiveness and understanding. He performed miracles to prove who he was. He was later crucified for his claims and he died a very painful death for what he spoke of. He had the opportunity to avoid this but he didn’t. He had the balls. This significant sacrifice could be symbolised and it has now been found in the laws of physics along with my observations. Just think about him.
I’m not a saint I’m the alpha male. I was enlightened, now I’m not. I just did my part in making a car work, virtually, according to the laws of physics. I wasn’t intending for this to happen, it just did. The resulting circumstances could get me killed, which is why I juggled it for a while. I essentially regurgitated the information because I know exactly what I’m saying. It would have been easy and good if yamauchi wasn’t involved, as all of the people who made this happen could account for their intellectual property and let the public decide for themselves what they thought. Yamauchi was involved however and things have gone bad as a result. (He didn’t do anything, intellectually or otherwise. You do the math.)
I have been constantly intoxicated for 6 months dealing with the fact that I was robbed of everything and then the fact that I had to relate my time in the 5th dimension without any proof of making a decision at C. I have since sobered up and got my act together financially and I will be taking legal action very shortly. As well as that, I am pursuing my love of the car and physics with the kind of determination that would make breaking through the fabric of space-time, look like fly-fishing. If I succeed at either you will hear about it. Thanks for the help.
Colm.
I will continue to keep an eye on this thread but I'm bored. If anybody does think of a relevant question (though I doubt it) I will answer it.
I appreciate the few open minded comments I recieved from a few people. You know who you are. As for the rest, the time spent replying to your garbage is lost. Mine and your own.
Later.
I appreciate the few open minded comments I recieved from a few people. You know who you are. As for the rest, the time spent replying to your garbage is lost. Mine and your own.
Later.
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 20 2008, 11:25 PM)
In 6 months I have encountered about 6 open minds who had the balls to voice their viewpoint.
And you've encountered many more who voiced their viewpoint, but you just ignored it.
And you've encountered many more who voiced their viewpoint, but you just ignored it.
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
I am the alpha male for reaching C.
Thinking that you are the alpha male makes you an arrogant ***. Thinking you reached C just makes you a loon. Loons we can deal with, and even if you actually aren't crazy, had you not ignored what we told you here you might have been on your way to testing whether or not you actually reached C.
Thinking that you are the alpha male makes you an arrogant ***. Thinking you reached C just makes you a loon. Loons we can deal with, and even if you actually aren't crazy, had you not ignored what we told you here you might have been on your way to testing whether or not you actually reached C.
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
I just did my part in making a car work, virtually, according to the laws of physics.
FINALLY, something SANE out of your mouth! Yes, this IS what you did, and it's ALL that you did!
If you feel you got screwed by the company producing the video game, then I express my condolences and wish you the best in obtaining the appropriate compensation.
Well to assume there is no objectvie pathway through such a scenario is perhaps a little too subjective in itself.
Science unearths knowledge, makes up theories and can test them, mainly but not always. None of this comes with the assurance of actually understanding that knowledge that one can unearth.
I bet there are few examples of half an aardvark in the fossil records! Or rabbits ears, then later rabbit ears and noses and paws. Then after that a tail gets included. No, we tend to find the whole body is what emerges straight away.
There is no half a tree. In other words, there does seem to be a blueprint for the finished body, that all the parts understand and take to task and complete. The instructions can sometimes contain flaws, so that a body may be born with no leg, or an extra finger, but generally speaking it is the whole body that there is an "image" of. In that respect it isn't like man made evolution of things like computers. Within the periodic table, and laws of heat and light, there is a process that is able to come to life and it seems to have its purpose.
So I seriously take into account the thought that the evolution of science will bring about the understanding of God, creative aspect, call it what you will. That is the task that some undertake, and for rational reasons. People here like to give the impression it's a done deal, that it can all be explained and also use the words "natural reality". I'm not convinced we are anywhere near understanding any natural reality.
It is Science and God that are one and the same, not Religion and God.
Well to assume there is no objectvie pathway through such a scenario is perhaps a little too subjective in itself.
Science unearths knowledge, makes up theories and can test them, mainly but not always. None of this comes with the assurance of actually understanding that knowledge that one can unearth.
I bet there are few examples of half an aardvark in the fossil records! Or rabbits ears, then later rabbit ears and noses and paws. Then after that a tail gets included. No, we tend to find the whole body is what emerges straight away.
There is no half a tree. In other words, there does seem to be a blueprint for the finished body, that all the parts understand and take to task and complete. The instructions can sometimes contain flaws, so that a body may be born with no leg, or an extra finger, but generally speaking it is the whole body that there is an "image" of. In that respect it isn't like man made evolution of things like computers. Within the periodic table, and laws of heat and light, there is a process that is able to come to life and it seems to have its purpose.
So I seriously take into account the thought that the evolution of science will bring about the understanding of God, creative aspect, call it what you will. That is the task that some undertake, and for rational reasons. People here like to give the impression it's a done deal, that it can all be explained and also use the words "natural reality". I'm not convinced we are anywhere near understanding any natural reality.
It is Science and God that are one and the same, not Religion and God.
I see you've recently brought some of that great skunk back from Amsterdam.
Not two sides, one side. They both mean the same thing.
I believe means I don't know.
I don't believe means I don't know.
Inkaat and the Messianic law
I don't believe it
FINALLY, something SANE out of your mouth! Yes, this IS what you did, and it's ALL that you did!
If you feel you got screwed by the company producing the video game, then I express my condolences and wish you the best in obtaining the appropriate compensation.
QUOTE (voodoochile+)
Thanks for the help.
You're welcome, and good luck.
You're welcome, and good luck.
Can you answer the obvious question?
If you moved at light speed while testing a game, why can't you just prove it and move at light speed?
Why do you need to be interacting with the software? If you can move that fast with the software, then the power is within you. YOU can move that fast.
Use the force young Grasshopper! Do it!
If you moved at light speed while testing a game, why can't you just prove it and move at light speed?
Why do you need to be interacting with the software? If you can move that fast with the software, then the power is within you. YOU can move that fast.
Use the force young Grasshopper! Do it!
I'll ask you a second time Voodoochild, does this example validate your experience?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLNune2SCI&feature=related
VDchile
Another wackjob hits the dust.
YAY!!!!!!
Grumpy
QUOTE
I will continue to keep an eye on this thread but I'm bored. If anybody does think of a relevant question (though I doubt it) I will answer it.
I appreciate the few open minded comments I recieved from a few people. You know who you are. As for the rest, the time spent replying to your garbage is lost. Mine and your own.
Later.
I appreciate the few open minded comments I recieved from a few people. You know who you are. As for the rest, the time spent replying to your garbage is lost. Mine and your own.
Later.
Another wackjob hits the dust.
YAY!!!!!!
Grumpy
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 20 2008, 11:28 PM)
I will continue to keep an eye on this thread but I'm bored.
For someone who can move at the speed of light, it's no wonder life back in the slow lane would be such a bore. Go jump in your race car, and you and Jesus can hop over to the next solar system and maybe find a more receptive crowd. And while you're there, check out their mental health programs, as you don't seem to be having much success with the ones in this neighborhood. Good luck, see you back in about 22 years or so.
For someone who can move at the speed of light, it's no wonder life back in the slow lane would be such a bore. Go jump in your race car, and you and Jesus can hop over to the next solar system and maybe find a more receptive crowd. And while you're there, check out their mental health programs, as you don't seem to be having much success with the ones in this neighborhood. Good luck, see you back in about 22 years or so.
QUOTE
Hmmmmmm....that would fall under the 'a-priori' divine purpose category which, no matter how I slice it, comes out NO. Essentially because any purpose that would be 'expressed eventually' as part of the evolved life form's 'philosopies' would be just that, EVOLVED PHILOSOPHIES and not REALITY BASED (since the 'reality' in a 'pantheistic' scenario is dependent on WHO AND HOW MANY 'gods' and 'demons' were involved.....which is something that would vary with the believer types and numbers and culturally evolved/inherited/practiced 'panteon'.
Well to assume there is no objectvie pathway through such a scenario is perhaps a little too subjective in itself.
Science unearths knowledge, makes up theories and can test them, mainly but not always. None of this comes with the assurance of actually understanding that knowledge that one can unearth.
I bet there are few examples of half an aardvark in the fossil records! Or rabbits ears, then later rabbit ears and noses and paws. Then after that a tail gets included. No, we tend to find the whole body is what emerges straight away.
There is no half a tree. In other words, there does seem to be a blueprint for the finished body, that all the parts understand and take to task and complete. The instructions can sometimes contain flaws, so that a body may be born with no leg, or an extra finger, but generally speaking it is the whole body that there is an "image" of. In that respect it isn't like man made evolution of things like computers. Within the periodic table, and laws of heat and light, there is a process that is able to come to life and it seems to have its purpose.
So I seriously take into account the thought that the evolution of science will bring about the understanding of God, creative aspect, call it what you will. That is the task that some undertake, and for rational reasons. People here like to give the impression it's a done deal, that it can all be explained and also use the words "natural reality". I'm not convinced we are anywhere near understanding any natural reality.
It is Science and God that are one and the same, not Religion and God.
And another wackjob rears his ugly head.
QUOTE (Grumpy+Oct 21 2008, 07:14 AM)
And another wackjob rears his ugly head.
Well life has just reached a pinnacle in body and mind with you eh? Spare us o great master.
Well life has just reached a pinnacle in body and mind with you eh? Spare us o great master.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 21 2008, 01:47 AM)
Well to assume there is no objectvie pathway through such a scenario is perhaps a little too subjective in itself.
Science unearths knowledge, makes up theories and can test them, mainly but not always. None of this comes with the assurance of actually understanding that knowledge that one can unearth.
I bet there are few examples of half an aardvark in the fossil records! Or rabbits ears, then later rabbit ears and noses and paws. Then after that a tail gets included. No, we tend to find the whole body is what emerges straight away.
There is no half a tree. In other words, there does seem to be a blueprint for the finished body, that all the parts understand and take to task and complete. The instructions can sometimes contain flaws, so that a body may be born with no leg, or an extra finger, but generally speaking it is the whole body that there is an "image" of. In that respect it isn't like man made evolution of things like computers. Within the periodic table, and laws of heat and light, there is a process that is able to come to life and it seems to have its purpose.
So I seriously take into account the thought that the evolution of science will bring about the understanding of God, creative aspect, call it what you will. That is the task that some undertake, and for rational reasons. People here like to give the impression it's a done deal, that it can all be explained and also use the words "natural reality". I'm not convinced we are anywhere near understanding any natural reality.
It is Science and God that are one and the same, not Religion and God.
I see you've recently brought some of that great skunk back from Amsterdam.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 21 2008, 12:25 PM)
I see you've recently brought some of that great skunk back from Amsterdam.
You see wrong Gmilam. Shall we start at the beginning?
Oh that's right, you can't.;-) well, shall we start at where life began appearing and how it did so? Aaah, you can't do that either. How about a clear verifiable description of consciouness? No? Ok, carry on with your own subjective sarcasm then . I do enjoy mine.
You see wrong Gmilam. Shall we start at the beginning?
Oh that's right, you can't.;-) well, shall we start at where life began appearing and how it did so? Aaah, you can't do that either. How about a clear verifiable description of consciouness? No? Ok, carry on with your own subjective sarcasm then . I do enjoy mine.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 21 2008, 08:00 AM)
You see wrong Gmilam. Shall we start at the beginning?
Oh that's right, you can't.;-) well, shall we start at where life began appearing and how it did so? Aaah, you can't do that either. How about a clear verifiable description of consciouness? No? Ok, carry on with your own subjective sarcasm then . I do enjoy mine.
So, do you believe that VDchile moved at the speed of light, his hand turned into light and he saw Jesus sitting next to him?
Is this the type of consciousness research you find compelling?
Oh that's right, you can't.;-) well, shall we start at where life began appearing and how it did so? Aaah, you can't do that either. How about a clear verifiable description of consciouness? No? Ok, carry on with your own subjective sarcasm then . I do enjoy mine.
So, do you believe that VDchile moved at the speed of light, his hand turned into light and he saw Jesus sitting next to him?
Is this the type of consciousness research you find compelling?
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 21 2008, 03:05 PM)
So, do you believe that VDchile moved at the speed of light, his hand turned into light and he saw Jesus sitting next to him?
Is this the type of consciousness research you find compelling?
What has what someone else has said got to do with what I've said? Also belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin. Walk into a meeting where people believe a certain thing, and you'll hear all their reasons for believing it, and all their reasons for disbelieving them next door. Walk in next door and you'll get their beliefs, with their reasons, and all the reasons to disbelieve the others next door.
With regards to voodoochile, I already said what I would venture is the extent of that experience. What difference does my believing or disbelieving make?
The whole thing is compelling to me. How a species lacking in any real surety
exercises beliefs , groups up , critisizes and praises, is all a good education.
I don't believe you, you don't believe me etc etc. Then they give you science that says "aaaah, but with this you don't need belief, coz it's objective". You take a look, and find that it doen't answer the big questions. But people got big subjective based ridicule.
When you can start at the beginning, go on to explain the emergence of life and consciousness objectively, with repeatable experiments, then I won't have to believe you will I? That's my advice to me, you and Voodoochile and all.
Is this the type of consciousness research you find compelling?
What has what someone else has said got to do with what I've said? Also belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin. Walk into a meeting where people believe a certain thing, and you'll hear all their reasons for believing it, and all their reasons for disbelieving them next door. Walk in next door and you'll get their beliefs, with their reasons, and all the reasons to disbelieve the others next door.
With regards to voodoochile, I already said what I would venture is the extent of that experience. What difference does my believing or disbelieving make?
The whole thing is compelling to me. How a species lacking in any real surety
exercises beliefs , groups up , critisizes and praises, is all a good education.
I don't believe you, you don't believe me etc etc. Then they give you science that says "aaaah, but with this you don't need belief, coz it's objective". You take a look, and find that it doen't answer the big questions. But people got big subjective based ridicule.
When you can start at the beginning, go on to explain the emergence of life and consciousness objectively, with repeatable experiments, then I won't have to believe you will I? That's my advice to me, you and Voodoochile and all.
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 21 2008, 11:01 AM)
What has what someone else has said got to do with what I've said?
You're spouting your crap in his thread. I assumed they were related.
You're spouting your crap in his thread. I assumed they were related.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 21 2008, 04:11 PM)
You're spouting your crap in his thread. I assumed they were related.
I don't believe you.
I don't believe you.
"belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin"
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 21 2008, 06:03 PM)
"belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin"
You just didn't understand my sarcasm. That's right, if I don't want to believe you assumed I was spouting crap on this thread, there isn't much you can do to prove it objectively is there? or have you invented a device that will show that is what you were thinking?
Nah, I think I'll choose to believe you butted in on a side conversation I was having with RC in this thread. Same coin.:-)
You just didn't understand my sarcasm. That's right, if I don't want to believe you assumed I was spouting crap on this thread, there isn't much you can do to prove it objectively is there? or have you invented a device that will show that is what you were thinking?
Nah, I think I'll choose to believe you butted in on a side conversation I was having with RC in this thread. Same coin.:-)
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 21 2008, 04:01 PM)
What has what someone else has said got to do with what I've said? Also belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin. Walk into a meeting where people believe a certain thing, and you'll hear all their reasons for believing it, and all their reasons for disbelieving them next door. Walk in next door and you'll get their beliefs, with their reasons, and all the reasons to disbelieve the others next door.
With regards to voodoochile, I already said what I would venture is the extent of that experience. What difference does my believing or disbelieving make?
The whole thing is compelling to me. How a species lacking in any real surety
exercises beliefs , groups up , critisizes and praises, is all a good education.
I don't believe you, you don't believe me etc etc. Then they give you science that says "aaaah, but with this you don't need belief, coz it's objective". You take a look, and find that it doen't answer the big questions. But people got big subjective based ridicule.
When you can start at the beginning, go on to explain the emergence of life and consciousness objectively, with repeatable experiments, then I won't have to believe you will I? That's my advice to me, you and Voodoochile and all.
Perfect attitude. Although I noticed you couldnt quite say if you believed me or not (which is fine by me). Having said that, you were still able to approach this idea with an open mind. Rare.
As for seeing it, I guarantee, you will be lost for words and you wont be able to help considering what I'm saying. Believing me or what you see, will be entirely your own decision.
I've mananged to get everything "out" as it were so my conscience is relatively clear.
I was going to write a reply to one of your earlier replies as there was a good subject (quote included) but I am going to take my time with it as I would need to completely describe "the 10 seconds".
(In retrospect I should have only replied to the open minded comments but there were only 2 or 3. I was trying to answer any and every question individually.)
With regards to voodoochile, I already said what I would venture is the extent of that experience. What difference does my believing or disbelieving make?
The whole thing is compelling to me. How a species lacking in any real surety
exercises beliefs , groups up , critisizes and praises, is all a good education.
I don't believe you, you don't believe me etc etc. Then they give you science that says "aaaah, but with this you don't need belief, coz it's objective". You take a look, and find that it doen't answer the big questions. But people got big subjective based ridicule.
When you can start at the beginning, go on to explain the emergence of life and consciousness objectively, with repeatable experiments, then I won't have to believe you will I? That's my advice to me, you and Voodoochile and all.
Perfect attitude. Although I noticed you couldnt quite say if you believed me or not (which is fine by me). Having said that, you were still able to approach this idea with an open mind. Rare.
As for seeing it, I guarantee, you will be lost for words and you wont be able to help considering what I'm saying. Believing me or what you see, will be entirely your own decision.
I've mananged to get everything "out" as it were so my conscience is relatively clear.
I was going to write a reply to one of your earlier replies as there was a good subject (quote included) but I am going to take my time with it as I would need to completely describe "the 10 seconds".
(In retrospect I should have only replied to the open minded comments but there were only 2 or 3. I was trying to answer any and every question individually.)
QUOTE (voodoochile+Oct 26 2008, 03:52 PM)
Perfect attitude. Although I noticed you couldnt quite say if you believed me or not (which is fine by me). Having said that, you were still able to approach this idea with an open mind. Rare.
As for seeing it, I guarantee, you will be lost for words and you wont be able to help considering what I'm saying. Believing me or what you see, will be entirely your own decision.
I've mananged to get everything "out" as it were so my conscience is relatively clear.
I was going to write a reply to one of your earlier replies as there was a good subject (quote included) but I am going to take my time with it as I would need to completely describe "the 10 seconds".
(In retrospect I should have only replied to the open minded comments but there were only 2 or 3. I was trying to answer any and every question individually.)
Thanks Voodoochile
I don't quite understand the intricities of your experience which is why I can't say I do or do not believe you. But you have my assurance I will not say I don't believe you based on my not knowing. Science shouldn't really be about belief. belief is for scientists to follow hunches, and be led by intuition. At a certain point the data should speak for itself. The apple fell on Newton's head, and for a moment he believed there was a perfectly objective science behind that. He followed his intuition and later produced a working model. At this forum people try to nip in the bud anything that doesn't speak for itself, and people deny other people's beliefs whilst practicing their own.
On a personal level your experience sounds very powerful. Subjective experience is as important as objective. None of us can explain objectively why the heart should ache so, or be so elevated by the Love thang. What's the science behind that? We play music from the heart? W.T.F does that mean scientifically? Yet ask many musicians and they intuitively know there is a movement of the heart, that seems to be a seat of experience in some ways. People that haven't experienced the blues really can't play it, anywhere near as well as they believe they can.
Physically, I can't imagine something moving at the speed of light, but experience obviosly surpasses that necessity?
If you don't have a paper written about your experience, a good idea to get one together. Publish it on your own site, and share it. Keep looking for objective platforms to keep persuing your experience. It was obviously real in some respect.
As for seeing it, I guarantee, you will be lost for words and you wont be able to help considering what I'm saying. Believing me or what you see, will be entirely your own decision.
I've mananged to get everything "out" as it were so my conscience is relatively clear.
I was going to write a reply to one of your earlier replies as there was a good subject (quote included) but I am going to take my time with it as I would need to completely describe "the 10 seconds".
(In retrospect I should have only replied to the open minded comments but there were only 2 or 3. I was trying to answer any and every question individually.)
Thanks Voodoochile
I don't quite understand the intricities of your experience which is why I can't say I do or do not believe you. But you have my assurance I will not say I don't believe you based on my not knowing. Science shouldn't really be about belief. belief is for scientists to follow hunches, and be led by intuition. At a certain point the data should speak for itself. The apple fell on Newton's head, and for a moment he believed there was a perfectly objective science behind that. He followed his intuition and later produced a working model. At this forum people try to nip in the bud anything that doesn't speak for itself, and people deny other people's beliefs whilst practicing their own.
On a personal level your experience sounds very powerful. Subjective experience is as important as objective. None of us can explain objectively why the heart should ache so, or be so elevated by the Love thang. What's the science behind that? We play music from the heart? W.T.F does that mean scientifically? Yet ask many musicians and they intuitively know there is a movement of the heart, that seems to be a seat of experience in some ways. People that haven't experienced the blues really can't play it, anywhere near as well as they believe they can.
Physically, I can't imagine something moving at the speed of light, but experience obviosly surpasses that necessity?
If you don't have a paper written about your experience, a good idea to get one together. Publish it on your own site, and share it. Keep looking for objective platforms to keep persuing your experience. It was obviously real in some respect.
QUOTE (gmilam+Oct 21 2008, 06:03 PM)
"belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin"
Not two sides, one side. They both mean the same thing.
I believe means I don't know.
I don't believe means I don't know.
Inkaat and the Messianic law
Not two sides, one side. They both mean the same thing.
I believe means I don't know.
I don't believe means I don't know.
Inkaat and the Messianic law
QUOTE (Boneidol+Oct 26 2008, 06:45 PM)
Thanks Voodoochile
I don't quite understand the intricities of your experience which is why I can't say I do or do not believe you. But you have my assurance I will not say I don't believe you based on my not knowing. Science shouldn't really be about belief. belief is for scientists to follow hunches, and be led by intuition. At a certain point the data should speak for itself. The apple fell on Newton's head, and for a moment he believed there was a perfectly objective science behind that. He followed his intuition and later produced a working model. At this forum people try to nip in the bud anything that doesn't speak for itself, and people deny other people's beliefs whilst practicing their own.
On a personal level your experience sounds very powerful. Subjective experience is as important as objective. None of us can explain objectively why the heart should ache so, or be so elevated by the Love thang. What's the science behind that? We play music from the heart? W.T.F does that mean scientifically? Yet ask many musicians and they intuitively know there is a movement of the heart, that seems to be a seat of experience in some ways. People that haven't experienced the blues really can't play it, anywhere near as well as they believe they can.
Physically, I can't imagine something moving at the speed of light, but experience obviosly surpasses that necessity?
If you don't have a paper written about your experience, a good idea to get one together. Publish it on your own site, and share it. Keep looking for objective platforms to keep persuing your experience. It was obviously real in some respect.
If I thought I, and everything around me was going to become light at C there would have been a lot of people there. First of all, I didn't know exactly how fast the code was travelling. Second, this soulless company didn't give a ***. It all went backwards from that around that point.
Exactly, fair enough. You can't say I'm telling the truth because you haven't seen what has been found and you haven't recieved anything from this company. But you can't and you didn't say I'm a liar or delusional based on the fact that you havent recived anything to the contrary. Open minded logic. Respect.
The data paints a picture.
Scientists are walking talking computational machines. I base this observation on history and my experience with dealing with this mentality during this process. They are not all the same though.
This is an internet forum. The intellectual property people contribute on here will nearly always be different to what they would contribute in real life. The "two cents" *** wouldn't last long in reality ither. No fear of immediate consequences also gives people free reign to say anything. Once again though, not everybody is the same.
Very true about the love thang. I put my heart, mind, body and soul into this process. All of which doesnt matter. I did everything I said I did out of love of the car and a need for perfection I didnt know I had. It was found, during this process that information is everything. I have a need for information. Information travelling at C assisted my evolution and this new "toy" can, and should assist anybody who wants it. Science and scientists, were there all the time and they still can't get the love thang. They only understand the data thang. Pity. Anybody with an interest in science, physics or information can and should be able to use this progress. And you will all love it.
Dude if you havent noticed I cant write for ***. I have written out my experience 3 times. Each time trying to describe a visual process. Each time unaware of when this was going to made public which would allow for the clarity that is needed. I think everybody gets the "jist" of what I'm trying to describe.
Just one last point a friend brought to my attention. If I am so delusional, how was I the best out of a few million people at this "thang". Thats how this process started. That was very real. A lot of hard work there too.
(I'll have an account of the 10 seconds later. I'm currently trying to figure out international employment law, intellectual property law etc. Against a billion dollar Japanese franchise and with very little money. If they can manage to keep all the people who know quiet, I doubt I will have any luck)
regards
Living colour.
I don't quite understand the intricities of your experience which is why I can't say I do or do not believe you. But you have my assurance I will not say I don't believe you based on my not knowing. Science shouldn't really be about belief. belief is for scientists to follow hunches, and be led by intuition. At a certain point the data should speak for itself. The apple fell on Newton's head, and for a moment he believed there was a perfectly objective science behind that. He followed his intuition and later produced a working model. At this forum people try to nip in the bud anything that doesn't speak for itself, and people deny other people's beliefs whilst practicing their own.
On a personal level your experience sounds very powerful. Subjective experience is as important as objective. None of us can explain objectively why the heart should ache so, or be so elevated by the Love thang. What's the science behind that? We play music from the heart? W.T.F does that mean scientifically? Yet ask many musicians and they intuitively know there is a movement of the heart, that seems to be a seat of experience in some ways. People that haven't experienced the blues really can't play it, anywhere near as well as they believe they can.
Physically, I can't imagine something moving at the speed of light, but experience obviosly surpasses that necessity?
If you don't have a paper written about your experience, a good idea to get one together. Publish it on your own site, and share it. Keep looking for objective platforms to keep persuing your experience. It was obviously real in some respect.
If I thought I, and everything around me was going to become light at C there would have been a lot of people there. First of all, I didn't know exactly how fast the code was travelling. Second, this soulless company didn't give a ***. It all went backwards from that around that point.
Exactly, fair enough. You can't say I'm telling the truth because you haven't seen what has been found and you haven't recieved anything from this company. But you can't and you didn't say I'm a liar or delusional based on the fact that you havent recived anything to the contrary. Open minded logic. Respect.
The data paints a picture.
Scientists are walking talking computational machines. I base this observation on history and my experience with dealing with this mentality during this process. They are not all the same though.
This is an internet forum. The intellectual property people contribute on here will nearly always be different to what they would contribute in real life. The "two cents" *** wouldn't last long in reality ither. No fear of immediate consequences also gives people free reign to say anything. Once again though, not everybody is the same.
Very true about the love thang. I put my heart, mind, body and soul into this process. All of which doesnt matter. I did everything I said I did out of love of the car and a need for perfection I didnt know I had. It was found, during this process that information is everything. I have a need for information. Information travelling at C assisted my evolution and this new "toy" can, and should assist anybody who wants it. Science and scientists, were there all the time and they still can't get the love thang. They only understand the data thang. Pity. Anybody with an interest in science, physics or information can and should be able to use this progress. And you will all love it.
Dude if you havent noticed I cant write for ***. I have written out my experience 3 times. Each time trying to describe a visual process. Each time unaware of when this was going to made public which would allow for the clarity that is needed. I think everybody gets the "jist" of what I'm trying to describe.
Just one last point a friend brought to my attention. If I am so delusional, how was I the best out of a few million people at this "thang". Thats how this process started. That was very real. A lot of hard work there too.
(I'll have an account of the 10 seconds later. I'm currently trying to figure out international employment law, intellectual property law etc. Against a billion dollar Japanese franchise and with very little money. If they can manage to keep all the people who know quiet, I doubt I will have any luck)
regards
Living colour.
QUOTE (Inkaat+Oct 26 2008, 07:01 PM)
Not two sides, one side. They both mean the same thing.
I believe means I don't know.
I don't believe means I don't know.
Inkaat and the Messianic law
I don't believe it
Does anyone on this forum know anything about 3D graphic design so I can describe this system of inertia in more detail. When you see, even a fake version, you will get an idea of what it symbolises.
Thanks.
(the field around the car is elongated. Meaning, in good proportion to the car. I can desribe it in more detail)
Thanks.
(the field around the car is elongated. Meaning, in good proportion to the car. I can desribe it in more detail)
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