Puma Punka ... yeah. That stone used there is not even anywhere close around that place, and it has laser precision. No written language record at that time either.
Puma Punka =
QUOTE
The Door of the Cougar
Made me think of apocalypto
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| The Door of the Cougar |
Made me think of apocalypto
I am Jaguar Paw. This is my forest. And I am not afraid
Pretty interesting stuff though with the complication of the build that people aren't ever sure they could do it today.
Poor retarded meem. Poor poor meem.
QUOTE
Hi again, Meem,
I’m with you on a lot of how you look at these things. I really enjoy watching and reading about what may have gone on in ‘prehistoric’ times. I try to think of ancient civilizations as very similar to today’s, in terms of how people think and act.
In the past 12 thousand years or so, the human mind and its capabilities must have been basically identical to ours, in terms of hardware at least. So, when trying to understand what we know from record, why would so much of the ‘odd stuff’ always be considered myth? I have always had a hard time thinking about , as one example, the Greeks and their Gods. We have a great deal of very specific records from the Greeks and we can very distinctly separate their science (fact) from fiction (plays).These concepts, along with philosophy, social structure and civics are all well defined and understood. We can still be entertained by their arts and learn from their scientific methodology, so why are we so quick to dismiss their mythology as complete fiction, when they very clearly talk about the Gods as living among them? I know that sounds completely absurd, but I just don’t think that they were so naïve that everything that they didn’t understand would be so pervasively thought of as ‘magic’ when they clearly had some type of grasp of how the physical world worked. I’m not sure where that leaves my understanding of their Gods living among them, but I certainly don’t like to assume it was all nonsense.
There were many other advanced civilizations that we know about over what we consider the modern age (agriculture and domesticated animals about 12K years ago, or so?) that we have at least some record of and some of the far out stories, I believe, are worth serious consideration.
Thanks for all the links. I’ll try to take some time watching them over the next couple of days. Maybe we can narrow done our ‘black’ list to some interesting discussions!Peace,
Ron
I’m with you on a lot of how you look at these things. I really enjoy watching and reading about what may have gone on in ‘prehistoric’ times. I try to think of ancient civilizations as very similar to today’s, in terms of how people think and act.
In the past 12 thousand years or so, the human mind and its capabilities must have been basically identical to ours, in terms of hardware at least. So, when trying to understand what we know from record, why would so much of the ‘odd stuff’ always be considered myth? I have always had a hard time thinking about , as one example, the Greeks and their Gods. We have a great deal of very specific records from the Greeks and we can very distinctly separate their science (fact) from fiction (plays).These concepts, along with philosophy, social structure and civics are all well defined and understood. We can still be entertained by their arts and learn from their scientific methodology, so why are we so quick to dismiss their mythology as complete fiction, when they very clearly talk about the Gods as living among them? I know that sounds completely absurd, but I just don’t think that they were so naïve that everything that they didn’t understand would be so pervasively thought of as ‘magic’ when they clearly had some type of grasp of how the physical world worked. I’m not sure where that leaves my understanding of their Gods living among them, but I certainly don’t like to assume it was all nonsense.
There were many other advanced civilizations that we know about over what we consider the modern age (agriculture and domesticated animals about 12K years ago, or so?) that we have at least some record of and some of the far out stories, I believe, are worth serious consideration.
Thanks for all the links. I’ll try to take some time watching them over the next couple of days. Maybe we can narrow done our ‘black’ list to some interesting discussions!Peace,
Ron
Occidental, would you say poor retard Ron too? Just wondering how many people you're insulting. Certainly not me. I was fielding a suggestion. You still try to prove what exactly about me? Is that how you won the essay contest? Calling people retards?
Maybe you would like to offer your superior knowledge as to how it was done. Please, do positively contribute to one of the world's greatest mysteries, and solve it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Hi again, Meem, I’m with you on a lot of how you look at these things. I really enjoy watching and reading about what may have gone on in ‘prehistoric’ times. I try to think of ancient civilizations as very similar to today’s, in terms of how people think and act. In the past 12 thousand years or so, the human mind and its capabilities must have been basically identical to ours, in terms of hardware at least. So, when trying to understand what we know from record, why would so much of the ‘odd stuff’ always be considered myth? I have always had a hard time thinking about , as one example, the Greeks and their Gods. We have a great deal of very specific records from the Greeks and we can very distinctly separate their science (fact) from fiction (plays).These concepts, along with philosophy, social structure and civics are all well defined and understood. We can still be entertained by their arts and learn from their scientific methodology, so why are we so quick to dismiss their mythology as complete fiction, when they very clearly talk about the Gods as living among them? I know that sounds completely absurd, but I just don’t think that they were so naïve that everything that they didn’t understand would be so pervasively thought of as ‘magic’ when they clearly had some type of grasp of how the physical world worked. I’m not sure where that leaves my understanding of their Gods living among them, but I certainly don’t like to assume it was all nonsense. There were many other advanced civilizations that we know about over what we consider the modern age (agriculture and domesticated animals about 12K years ago, or so?) that we have at least some record of and some of the far out stories, I believe, are worth serious consideration. Thanks for all the links. I’ll try to take some time watching them over the next couple of days. Maybe we can narrow done our ‘black’ list to some interesting discussions!Peace, Ron |
Occidental, would you say poor retard Ron too? Just wondering how many people you're insulting. Certainly not me. I was fielding a suggestion. You still try to prove what exactly about me? Is that how you won the essay contest? Calling people retards?
Maybe you would like to offer your superior knowledge as to how it was done. Please, do positively contribute to one of the world's greatest mysteries, and solve it.
Some of the blocks brought up to build the temples are said to weigh about 100–130 tons
12000 years ago, humans build structures made out of stones weighing ... 200,000 to 260,000 pounds .... using laser precision? Explain that to the retard?
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 7 2009, 09:27 PM)
Occidental, would you say poor retard Ron too? Just wondering how many people you're insulting. Certainly not me. I was fielding a suggestion. You still try to prove what exactly about me? Is that how you won the essay contest? Calling people retards?
You still can't even figure out what he's hinting at....
You still can't even figure out what he's hinting at....
I dont know Meem, does ron believe space aliens and atlantis are responsible for Tiahuanacu? Does he think Graham Hancock is really a reputable author?
Youre a joke, meem.
Youre a joke, meem.
So Ron, did you say Sapo's site has respect for people? What is the specific address, you could email it to me if you like. This obviously isn't the place to talk about history within the rule of common courtesy. I can't tolerate it any longer.
I am sure there are absolutely no understanding of physics required for moving 200,000 - 260,000 pound stones. That's a really dumb question. Especially when you consider something like this ...
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/13652
I am sure there are absolutely no understanding of physics required for moving 200,000 - 260,000 pound stones. That's a really dumb question. Especially when you consider something like this ...
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/13652
Quarry Dump Truck hauls 69 tons.
QUOTE
I actually agree with this. Unfortunately, it ignores the oft-stated fact that the very lack of moderation of poster integrity is the major motivating factor for those who treat the cranks like ѕhit.
I am sure there are absolutely no understanding of physics required for moving 200,000 - 260,000 pound stones. That's a really dumb question. Especially when you consider something like this ...
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/13652
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I actually agree with this. Unfortunately, it ignores the oft-stated fact that the very lack of moderation of poster integrity is the major motivating factor for those who treat the cranks like ѕhit. |
I am sure there are absolutely no understanding of physics required for moving 200,000 - 260,000 pound stones. That's a really dumb question. Especially when you consider something like this ...
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/13652
Quarry Dump Truck hauls 69 tons.
Poor insulted meem. Poor poor meem.
If your idea of history involves "god did it" or "space aliens did it" then a science forum is not the place for you.
If your idea of history involves "god did it" or "space aliens did it" then a science forum is not the place for you.
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_6.htm
Puma Punku, truly startles the imagination. It seems to be the remains of a great wharf (for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco) and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks laying about are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them. Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure.
How were these monstrous stones moved and what was their purpose?
Posnansky suggested an answer, based upon his studies of the astronomical alignments of Tiahuanaco, but that answer is considered so controversial, even impossible, that it has been ignored and censured by the scientific community for fifty years.
880,000 pound stone .... is that even the combined weight at stone henge? Egyptian pyramids can come even close with single stone weight? It's solid rock, from 10 miles away ... and the Egyptian "stones" were fashioned right?
Nearly a million pounds? Get real, goodbye.
880,000 pound stone .... is that even the combined weight at stone henge? Egyptian pyramids can come even close with single stone weight? It's solid rock, from 10 miles away ... and the Egyptian "stones" were fashioned right?
Nearly a million pounds? Get real, goodbye.
Yeah people come up
Yeah, we better turn tha bass up on this one
Check it,
Since 1516 minds attacked and overseen
Now crawl amidst the ruins of this empty dream
With their borders and boots on top of us
Pullin' knobs on the floor of thier toxic metropolis
So how you gonna get what you need ta get?
Tha gut eaters, drenched get offensive like tet
When the fifth sun sets get back reclain
Tha spirit of Cuahtemoc alive an untamed
Now face tha funk now blastin' out ya
The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun
Ya this is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
Ya never forget that the wipe snapped your back, ya spine cracked for tobacc-, oh I'm the marlbaro man uh
Our past blastin' on through tha verses
Brigades of taxi cabs rolling broadway like hearses
Troops strippin' zoots, shots of red mist, sailors blood on tha deck
Come sista resist
Tha new era of terror, check this photo lens
Now the city of angles ethnic cleanse
Heads bobbin' to tha speaker, on tha one Maya, Mexica
That vulture came ta try an steal ya name but now you found a gun.
Ya history, this is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around
Of the sun
QUOTE
Tiahuanacu (also called Tiwanaku) is a mystery because of its age (estimated to be 17,000 years) and the peculiar stone technology.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Tiahuanacu (also called Tiwanaku) is a mystery because of its age (estimated to be 17,000 years) and the peculiar stone technology. |
Puma Punku, truly startles the imagination. It seems to be the remains of a great wharf (for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco) and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks laying about are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them. Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure.
How were these monstrous stones moved and what was their purpose?
Posnansky suggested an answer, based upon his studies of the astronomical alignments of Tiahuanaco, but that answer is considered so controversial, even impossible, that it has been ignored and censured by the scientific community for fifty years.
QUOTE (occidental+Jul 7 2009, 10:05 PM)
Poor insulted meem. Poor poor meem.
If your idea of history involves "god did it" or "space aliens did it" then a science forum is not the place for you.
Does it, and does it, essay winner.
Still waiting for you to explain to me how men did it, because it's pretty obvious how ... since no man has any proof. You could crank up the empty rhetoric another notch and flat out cuss like Mjolnir.
If your idea of history involves "god did it" or "space aliens did it" then a science forum is not the place for you.
Does it, and does it, essay winner.
Still waiting for you to explain to me how men did it, because it's pretty obvious how ... since no man has any proof. You could crank up the empty rhetoric another notch and flat out cuss like Mjolnir.
Well... after reading the Puma Punka articles... I have two answers for you Meem.
From the tv show Red Dwarf...
And...
Stonehenge Builder
You don't need aliens or super science... just clever humans.
From the tv show Red Dwarf...
QUOTE
LISTER: What makes you think these aliens exist?
RIMMER: They must do, Lister! There's so many things that are strange
and odd. So many things we don't have any explanation for.
LISTER: Like, um, why do intelligent people buy cinema hot dogs? Do you
mean that sort of weird and mysterious thing?
RIMMER: No, Lister, I mean like the pyramids. How did they move such
massive pieces of stone without the aid of modern technology?
LISTER: They had massive whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips.
RIMMER: They must do, Lister! There's so many things that are strange
and odd. So many things we don't have any explanation for.
LISTER: Like, um, why do intelligent people buy cinema hot dogs? Do you
mean that sort of weird and mysterious thing?
RIMMER: No, Lister, I mean like the pyramids. How did they move such
massive pieces of stone without the aid of modern technology?
LISTER: They had massive whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips.
And...
Stonehenge Builder
You don't need aliens or super science... just clever humans.
QUOTE
One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons
880,000 pound stone .... is that even the combined weight at stone henge? Egyptian pyramids can come even close with single stone weight? It's solid rock, from 10 miles away ... and the Egyptian "stones" were fashioned right?
Nearly a million pounds? Get real, goodbye.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons |
880,000 pound stone .... is that even the combined weight at stone henge? Egyptian pyramids can come even close with single stone weight? It's solid rock, from 10 miles away ... and the Egyptian "stones" were fashioned right?
Nearly a million pounds? Get real, goodbye.
Yeah people come up
Yeah, we better turn tha bass up on this one
Check it,
Since 1516 minds attacked and overseen
Now crawl amidst the ruins of this empty dream
With their borders and boots on top of us
Pullin' knobs on the floor of thier toxic metropolis
So how you gonna get what you need ta get?
Tha gut eaters, drenched get offensive like tet
When the fifth sun sets get back reclain
Tha spirit of Cuahtemoc alive an untamed
Now face tha funk now blastin' out ya
The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun
Ya this is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
Ya never forget that the wipe snapped your back, ya spine cracked for tobacc-, oh I'm the marlbaro man uh
Our past blastin' on through tha verses
Brigades of taxi cabs rolling broadway like hearses
Troops strippin' zoots, shots of red mist, sailors blood on tha deck
Come sista resist
Tha new era of terror, check this photo lens
Now the city of angles ethnic cleanse
Heads bobbin' to tha speaker, on tha one Maya, Mexica
That vulture came ta try an steal ya name but now you found a gun.
Ya history, this is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for tha people of tha sun
Its comin' back around again
Its comin' back around again
This is for the people of the sun
Its comin' back around
Of the sun
One man lifts 200 pounds...
4400 men lift 880, 000 pounds.
Annnd....for example...
It's always a mistake to think that ancient people needed any help other than their own cleverness and determination to accomplish amazing feats.
4400 men lift 880, 000 pounds.
Annnd....for example...
QUOTE
According to historical data, the labor force was made up of three groups: soldiers, common people and criminals. Since the Qin Dynasty (221BC - 206BC), the construction of the Great Wall had been a very large project. The Emperor Qin Shihuang ordered millions of people to finish this project.
Soldiers made up the main construction group. This was the case with the building of the wall of Northern Qi (550-557). Also, during the Qin Dynasty, 300,000 soldiers were redirected to build the wall after General Meng Tian conquered the Huns. Still, it took nine years to finish the work. In order to take care of the soldiers and make them feel settled, the court even arranged for widows to marry them.
Winding Great Wall in BeijingMillions of common people were called up to build the wall. Northern Qi's wall, starting from Xiakou to Hengzhou, used 1,800,000 laborers. A section of Sui's (581 - 618) wall in Inner Mongolia required more than 1,000,000 men to build. Besides the first 300,000 soldiers, Qin's wall required another 500,000 common people to complete the work.
Soldiers made up the main construction group. This was the case with the building of the wall of Northern Qi (550-557). Also, during the Qin Dynasty, 300,000 soldiers were redirected to build the wall after General Meng Tian conquered the Huns. Still, it took nine years to finish the work. In order to take care of the soldiers and make them feel settled, the court even arranged for widows to marry them.
Winding Great Wall in BeijingMillions of common people were called up to build the wall. Northern Qi's wall, starting from Xiakou to Hengzhou, used 1,800,000 laborers. A section of Sui's (581 - 618) wall in Inner Mongolia required more than 1,000,000 men to build. Besides the first 300,000 soldiers, Qin's wall required another 500,000 common people to complete the work.
It's always a mistake to think that ancient people needed any help other than their own cleverness and determination to accomplish amazing feats.
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 7 2009, 09:58 PM)
So Ron, did you say Sapo's site has respect for people? What is the specific address, you could email it to me if you like. This obviously isn't the place to talk about history within the rule of common courtesy. I can't tolerate it any longer.
ROFLMAO I'd give you 3 days at the Joint. If that...
Anyone want to place bets how long he'll last before Sapo gets sick of his crap and blocks his IP address?
EDIT
ROFLMAO I'd give you 3 days at the Joint. If that...
Anyone want to place bets how long he'll last before Sapo gets sick of his crap and blocks his IP address?
EDIT
Are we placing bets? What are the odds?
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Jul 7 2009, 11:55 PM)
Are we placing bets? What are the odds?
Not in meem's favor, that's for sure...
It's hard to say, exactly, but Sapo eventually got sick of every crank who signed up for the Joint, especially the whiny, confrontational ones like meem. Liu (I'm sure you've heard about him by now) didn't even get to make a single post before he was banned, and newguy got himself banned within 2 or 3 days.
I think Bukh and Confused2 are the only ones to last longer than that, and even Bukh got banned in the end. I dunno about C2, he might have enough common sense to keep his mouth in check, so he might still be there.
17000 years ago?
Who the heck are you talking about? The paleolithic age? Technology?
Yeah.. crank is an understatement.
Sheesh... goodbye already. Stop leaving and go.
Not in meem's favor, that's for sure...
It's hard to say, exactly, but Sapo eventually got sick of every crank who signed up for the Joint, especially the whiny, confrontational ones like meem. Liu (I'm sure you've heard about him by now) didn't even get to make a single post before he was banned, and newguy got himself banned within 2 or 3 days.
I think Bukh and Confused2 are the only ones to last longer than that, and even Bukh got banned in the end. I dunno about C2, he might have enough common sense to keep his mouth in check, so he might still be there.
QUOTE (RobDegraves+)
It's always a mistake to think that ancient people needed any help other than their own cleverness and determination to accomplish amazing feats.
I've noticed that it tends to be stupid people who believe in ancient astronauts. I think the obvious explanation is the right one: They couldn't possibly figure out how to build ancient structures using then-current technology, so naturally, no-one could.
The really funny thing about it is: If aliens built those structures, why are they so damn primitive? I mean, no elevators, no escalators, no fire escapes, no transporter pads, no holodeck, not even basic electricity!
Well, maybe they were Amish aliens...
I've noticed that it tends to be stupid people who believe in ancient astronauts. I think the obvious explanation is the right one: They couldn't possibly figure out how to build ancient structures using then-current technology, so naturally, no-one could.
The really funny thing about it is: If aliens built those structures, why are they so damn primitive? I mean, no elevators, no escalators, no fire escapes, no transporter pads, no holodeck, not even basic electricity!
Well, maybe they were Amish aliens...
Actually there have been a number of times where ancient cultures managed to duplicate feats that were similar to technology found much later on....without any need for alien astronauts.
The ancient Greeks had a working model of a steam engine. They never did anything practical with it though. Many Greek philosophers and thinkers were of the opinion that the search for Truth and Knowledge was far more important than the practical applications of such knowledge.
The Romans were fantastic builders as were the Chinese. One of my favorite pictures was from the earthquake that occurred in Turkey not too long ago. What was fascinating was to see an entire section of the city in ruins and, right in the middle of the destruction, was a roman palace... completely intact. Building codes were somewhat more heavily enforced back then.
I found a great saying not too long ago.. sadly it's not by me, though I would have loved to have said it first. If I get it a bit wrong do forgive me.
"There is nothing a man can't accomplish with an endless supply of cheap, expendable slave labor."
The ancient Greeks had a working model of a steam engine. They never did anything practical with it though. Many Greek philosophers and thinkers were of the opinion that the search for Truth and Knowledge was far more important than the practical applications of such knowledge.
The Romans were fantastic builders as were the Chinese. One of my favorite pictures was from the earthquake that occurred in Turkey not too long ago. What was fascinating was to see an entire section of the city in ruins and, right in the middle of the destruction, was a roman palace... completely intact. Building codes were somewhat more heavily enforced back then.
I found a great saying not too long ago.. sadly it's not by me, though I would have loved to have said it first. If I get it a bit wrong do forgive me.
"There is nothing a man can't accomplish with an endless supply of cheap, expendable slave labor."
Do you think men 17000 years ago were ready for that kind of technology? Perhaps that is why is was so primitive, because the men were and they didn't want to leave a bunch of primitive men with the ability to do the things they could.
I don't play with the odds. You can think what you wish of me, but I have indeed been cranked right out of here.
Sounds mighty fine to me.
I don't play with the odds. You can think what you wish of me, but I have indeed been cranked right out of here.
QUOTE
A moderated discussion forum focused primarily on hard sciences, with additional topics devoted to the artistic interests of our members.
Sounds mighty fine to me.
QUOTE
17000 years ago
17000 years ago?
Who the heck are you talking about? The paleolithic age? Technology?
Yeah.. crank is an understatement.
Sheesh... goodbye already. Stop leaving and go.
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Jul 8 2009, 12:25 AM)
Actually there have been a number of times where ancient cultures managed to duplicate feats that were similar to technology found much later on....without any need for alien astronauts.
The ancient Greeks had a working model of a steam engine. They never did anything practical with it though. Many Greek philosophers and thinkers were of the opinion that the search for Truth and Knowledge was far more important than the practical applications of such knowledge.
Let's not forget the Hwacha from Korea (15th century rocket launcher) or the antikythera mechanism (2nd century BC calculator/star chart) or the fact that pi was known to within 1% of it's actual value as early as the 26th century, BC.
What I was referring to, however is explicit examples of anachronistic technology, which would be expected in the case of the ancient aliens theory.
While such technologies as an aeolipile, an astronomical calculator and a good understanding of pi are astounding in the context of the ancient world, they're not beyond the technological means of the day. I don't think these devices qualify as anachronistic technologies, which would rather be something like a laptop dating from the renaissance, or a laser originating in ancient Egypt, or something else which the technology of the day couldn't produce.
I do believe that was the great philosopher-king, Bender the first...
I do believe that was the great philosopher-king, Bender the first...
The Romans were fantastic builders as were the Chinese. One of my favorite pictures was from the earthquake that occurred in Turkey not too long ago. What was fascinating was to see an entire section of the city in ruins and, right in the middle of the destruction, was a roman palace... completely intact. Building codes were somewhat more heavily enforced back then.
It's often occurred to me that ancient building techniques produced more durable structures than modern techniques... It's just a product of scale & materials, though. Modern buildings are not built to inspire awe anymore, (as if they could, in this day and age) and are built with materials designed more to be easy to work with than to last for thousands of years.
The only thing harder than this stone is diamond, that we know of. So I suppose A they ether new how to grow diamonds and had nanotechnology, or b they had lasers, or c, whatever you will insist next. Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
The only thing harder than this stone is diamond, that we know of. So I suppose A they ether new how to grow diamonds and had nanotechnology, or b they had lasers, or c, whatever you will insist next. Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
Jesus Christ, your ignorance is an endless font of amusement...
There is more than one kind of stone. Some stone is softer than even wood. Bronze and even tin can be used to cut almost any type of stone, as can other types of stone. Sand and water can be used to grind stone to amazingly precise dimensions, diamonds can be mined instead of grown, and no nanotechnology is needed.
A friend of mine once made a mirror out of a block of wood using nothing but sandpaper. He polished a slab of wood by hand until you could see your reflection in it. It was a shitty mirror, but still.
When I worked with my father, we once installed a marble counter top that got badly scuffed during the install. With no technique more advanced than wet sanding (about 30,000 years old) we brought it back to a smooth sheen in less than 3 hours.
I've cut through a marble slab with sand, water and string. My former neighbor has carved a statue of Homer Simpson out of soapstone, using wooden tools and sand.
The methods by which these buildings were constructed are not only well preserved and well known, they are amazingly simple. Only conspiracy theorists ever suggest otherwise, no reputable archeologists consider it that much of a mystery.
Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
You're right occasionally.
The ancient Greeks had a working model of a steam engine. They never did anything practical with it though. Many Greek philosophers and thinkers were of the opinion that the search for Truth and Knowledge was far more important than the practical applications of such knowledge.
Let's not forget the Hwacha from Korea (15th century rocket launcher) or the antikythera mechanism (2nd century BC calculator/star chart) or the fact that pi was known to within 1% of it's actual value as early as the 26th century, BC.
What I was referring to, however is explicit examples of anachronistic technology, which would be expected in the case of the ancient aliens theory.
While such technologies as an aeolipile, an astronomical calculator and a good understanding of pi are astounding in the context of the ancient world, they're not beyond the technological means of the day. I don't think these devices qualify as anachronistic technologies, which would rather be something like a laptop dating from the renaissance, or a laser originating in ancient Egypt, or something else which the technology of the day couldn't produce.
QUOTE
"There is nothing a man can't accomplish with an endless supply of cheap, expendable slave labor."
I do believe that was the great philosopher-king, Bender the first...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| "There is nothing a man can't accomplish with an endless supply of cheap, expendable slave labor." |
I do believe that was the great philosopher-king, Bender the first...
The Romans were fantastic builders as were the Chinese. One of my favorite pictures was from the earthquake that occurred in Turkey not too long ago. What was fascinating was to see an entire section of the city in ruins and, right in the middle of the destruction, was a roman palace... completely intact. Building codes were somewhat more heavily enforced back then.
It's often occurred to me that ancient building techniques produced more durable structures than modern techniques... It's just a product of scale & materials, though. Modern buildings are not built to inspire awe anymore, (as if they could, in this day and age) and are built with materials designed more to be easy to work with than to last for thousands of years.
QUOTE
The remarkable thing about this ancient slab is that it has a perfect cut or groove approximately 1cm wide running down its entire length while inside the groove there is a set of equidistant holes that appear to have been drilled into it.
The only thing harder than this stone is diamond, that we know of. So I suppose A they ether new how to grow diamonds and had nanotechnology, or b they had lasers, or c, whatever you will insist next. Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 10:03 AM)
The only thing harder than this stone is diamond, that we know of. So I suppose A they ether new how to grow diamonds and had nanotechnology, or b they had lasers, or c, whatever you will insist next. Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
Jesus Christ, your ignorance is an endless font of amusement...
There is more than one kind of stone. Some stone is softer than even wood. Bronze and even tin can be used to cut almost any type of stone, as can other types of stone. Sand and water can be used to grind stone to amazingly precise dimensions, diamonds can be mined instead of grown, and no nanotechnology is needed.
A friend of mine once made a mirror out of a block of wood using nothing but sandpaper. He polished a slab of wood by hand until you could see your reflection in it. It was a shitty mirror, but still.
When I worked with my father, we once installed a marble counter top that got badly scuffed during the install. With no technique more advanced than wet sanding (about 30,000 years old) we brought it back to a smooth sheen in less than 3 hours.
I've cut through a marble slab with sand, water and string. My former neighbor has carved a statue of Homer Simpson out of soapstone, using wooden tools and sand.
The methods by which these buildings were constructed are not only well preserved and well known, they are amazingly simple. Only conspiracy theorists ever suggest otherwise, no reputable archeologists consider it that much of a mystery.
The first stage of society were thought to be the hunter gather stage. Maye, the first stage of a new societal model for us, would be hunter gathers of knowledge, not manufactures of it-"I know, what you think- I know what you are,-I know what you're saying."
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 10:03 AM)
Yeah, I'm a stupid crank.
You're right occasionally.
Lets go back to the site and address some of the OP link's claims...
Wrong.
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiw...experiment.html
Wrong.
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiw...experiment.htmlOne of the most puzzling aspects of the Tiwanaku pyramids is the lack of nearby quarries. Analysis of the red sandstone places one quarry 10 kilometers away, an incredible distance considering that one of the stones alone weighs over 130 tons. The source of the green andesite stones, the material from which the most elaborate carvings and monoliths are made, is on the Copacabana peninsula, across Lake Titicaca. One theory is that these giant andesite stones (the largest weighing 40 tons) were transported some 90 kilometers across Lake Titicaca on reed boats, then laboriously dragged another 10 kilometers to the city. Using only traditional techniques and locally available materials, we'll be testing this theory by recreating the Tiwanaku building process with a group of leading Aymara experts in totora reed boat building.
...
The Qala Yampu project was a success! Please read the logs above for the full story
So using ancient technologies, they moved one of the stones used to construct the temple...
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...lse/38541/Issue
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...lse/38541/IssueMammoet commissioned the largest mobile crane in the world, the PTC III. It stands 200 m tall and can lift 1600 t at speeds to 80 m/min.
Measurement and Analysis of Thermophysical Properties of Diorites in the Temperature Range from 253 to 333 K
Journal International Journal of Thermophysics
Publisher Springer Netherlands
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xj8526035w858215/
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...8541/IssueQUOTE
Mammoet commissioned the largest mobile crane in the world, the PTC III. It stands 200 m tall and can lift 1600 t at speeds to 80 m/min.
1600 tons is a lot more than any block in that temple...
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
You don't include a link for this one. I suspect it's from one of those UFO sites. Let's see where this comes from shall we.
You don't include a link for this one. I suspect it's from one of those UFO sites. Let's see where this comes from shall we.
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
They didn't need it. They had manpower... lots of it.. and perseverance. More than enough.
Seriously... find me one archeologist of actual repute that believes any of this alien technology crap. Just because you folks don't understand how it was done does not mean that it's impossible.
A number of projects that I have been personally involved with have been about reviving ancient technologies. I have built (and fired) a catapult and built a number of recreated pieces of armor. The ingenuity of many ancient people is quite astounding. A colleague from Toronto a few years ago got the chance to work on a recreation of a Dreki (Norse longship) and brought back some awesome info. Those ships were better in some respects than modern ships. Incredible stuff... a ship that could go up rivers as well as travel the Atlantic ocean.
Anyway... I imagine most of this is lost on Meem, who would rather believe that UFO's did it.
So, since that doesn't take "man-power" what does it take then brain power? Would you have me believe they used their minds to do it? where are the tools ... there should be diamond residue somewhere if they used diamonds.
You do know that 'transport properties' doesn't mean how the stone can be moved from place to place?
Because I need information to formulate an answer. You might prefer to just make things up but I don't. Where do you get all this info about the weight of the stones, needing diamonds to cut the rock, etc?
If you can't answer.. there is no point in discussing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diorite#Historic_use_of_diorite
Wow, that's a lot of diamonds. Unless, of course they used wet sanding to cut the stone...
Here's an incredibly well-researched article on the subject of cutting diorite (and other stones in ancient times)
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...bbing_saws.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diorite#Historic_use_of_diorite
Wow, that's a lot of diamonds. Unless, of course they used wet sanding to cut the stone...
Here's an incredibly well-researched article on the subject of cutting diorite (and other stones in ancient times)
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...bbing_saws.htmlCopper, bronze, and iron are insufficiently in terms of indentation hardness to cut by abrasion hard stones such as basalt, diorite, granite, greywacke (schist), and siliceous sandstone (quartzite). A harder material than the metal itself is required as an abrasive in order to cut these rocks. This abrasive material could have been used either as shards of mineral aggregates or crystals used as cutting teeth, charged copper or bronze (small abrasive grains impregnated into the metal), or as a loose abrasive.
Here's another link on ancient stone working techniques and technologies.
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/e...s/stonetech.php
So much for the claim that only diamond can cut diorite...
So much for the claim that only diamond can cut diorite...
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
Again, you prove your ignorance, demonstrating your inability to understand context.
Ron: Here's the link for the following quote.
abovetopsecret.com - Aliens helped build Puma Punku
It's just a poster on the site making the claim, not an expert. His source for his claims? The Weekly World News website...
I have one question, how many pounds does one 800 tons equal? And how would you move it with ropes, and no trees?
Lets just keep to the simple math, 800 tons = 1,600,000 pounds.
Who says that there were stones that weighed 800 tons? Because in the link you provided, it disputes your 400+ ton claim here:
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
Really?
Did you notice this at the bottom?:
Really?
Did you notice this at the bottom?:
This site is based on the works of Harun Yahya."
http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/writings/articles/hyahya.html
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Archaeology-654...ing-Methods.htm
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Archaeology-654...ing-Methods.htm
Radioactive dating in general depends on three major assumptions:
1. When the rock forms (hardens) there should only be parent radioactive atoms in the rock and no daughter radiogenic (derived by radioactive decay of another element) atoms;
2. After hardening, the rock must remain a closed system, that is, no parent or daughter atoms should be added to or removed from the rock by external influences such as percolating ground water; and
3. The radioactive decay rate must remain constant.
Radiometric dating methods make assumptions that have been proven to be inconsistent. If any of these assumptions are violated, then the technique fails and any ‘dates' are false. Leaching, varying isotope ratios, etc. indicate the methods at best are unreliable. Dr. Steve Austin at ICR tested rocks from the bottom and top of Grand Canyon. Three of the four methods showed that the bottom rocks were younger than the top rock an IMPOSSIBLE conclusion. The radiological methods date rocks that were liquid and are now solid. These rocks do not contain fossils. The fossil bearing rock is sedimentary (laid down under water in Noah's flood). Evolutionists consistently disregard radiometric dates that conflict with their time scheme. If a date doesn't support evolution they throw it away. See John Morris' "Young Earth" and the book “Bone of Contention” for a detailed study of “missing links of apes to men.
Carbon Dating is a method that is often cited to “prove” evolution. It does not because:
1) as a method it can only extend to 50,000 years not millions of years,
2) C14 can only date tissue not fossils (stone impressions of bones). When you find (some have been found) real dinosaur bones it is a testimony to creation because biological tissue won't last millions of years. (I don't know about this)
3) Carbon 14 has not come to balance in the atmosphere indicating a young not old atmosphere.
QUOTE
There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size.
Wrong.
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiw...experiment.html
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. |
Wrong.
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiw...experiment.htmlOne of the most puzzling aspects of the Tiwanaku pyramids is the lack of nearby quarries. Analysis of the red sandstone places one quarry 10 kilometers away, an incredible distance considering that one of the stones alone weighs over 130 tons. The source of the green andesite stones, the material from which the most elaborate carvings and monoliths are made, is on the Copacabana peninsula, across Lake Titicaca. One theory is that these giant andesite stones (the largest weighing 40 tons) were transported some 90 kilometers across Lake Titicaca on reed boats, then laboriously dragged another 10 kilometers to the city. Using only traditional techniques and locally available materials, we'll be testing this theory by recreating the Tiwanaku building process with a group of leading Aymara experts in totora reed boat building.
...
The Qala Yampu project was a success! Please read the logs above for the full story
So using ancient technologies, they moved one of the stones used to construct the temple...
QUOTE
Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure.
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...lse/38541/Issue
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure. |
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...lse/38541/IssueMammoet commissioned the largest mobile crane in the world, the PTC III. It stands 200 m tall and can lift 1600 t at speeds to 80 m/min.
1600 tons is a lot more than any block in that temple...
QUOTE
"Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. 200-450 ton stones, made from Diorite, which is a material that can only be cut with diamonds. Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge. They also cut stone in such a perfect way so that they would be assembled like Legos, interlocking for premium strength
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| "Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. 200-450 ton stones, made from Diorite, which is a material that can only be cut with diamonds. Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge. They also cut stone in such a perfect way so that they would be assembled like Legos, interlocking for premium strength |
Measurement and Analysis of Thermophysical Properties of Diorites in the Temperature Range from 253 to 333 K
Journal International Journal of Thermophysics
Publisher Springer Netherlands
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xj8526035w858215/
QUOTE
Abstract Thermal conductivity and thermal diffusivity are simultaneously measured for a collection of diorite samples taken from Shewa-Shahbaz Garhi volcanic complex near Mardan, Pakistan by using the transient plane source (TPS) technique. The temperature dependence of the transport properties of these samples is studied in the temperature range from 253 to 333 K. Different relationships for the temperature dependence of the thermal conductivity and thermal diffusivity are tested. The samples are also characterized by their chemical composition, density, porosity, and specific gravity at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. Theoretical calculation of the specific gravity parameter based on the chemical composition is in good agreement with the experimental observation. No correlation was found for the temperature dependence of the thermal transport behavior on porosity, chemical composition, and density.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Abstract Thermal conductivity and thermal diffusivity are simultaneously measured for a collection of diorite samples taken from Shewa-Shahbaz Garhi volcanic complex near Mardan, Pakistan by using the transient plane source (TPS) technique. The temperature dependence of the transport properties of these samples is studied in the temperature range from 253 to 333 K. Different relationships for the temperature dependence of the thermal conductivity and thermal diffusivity are tested. The samples are also characterized by their chemical composition, density, porosity, and specific gravity at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. Theoretical calculation of the specific gravity parameter based on the chemical composition is in good agreement with the experimental observation. No correlation was found for the temperature dependence of the thermal transport behavior on porosity, chemical composition, and density. |
Wrong in the extreme.
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Is...8541/IssueQUOTE
Mammoet commissioned the largest mobile crane in the world, the PTC III. It stands 200 m tall and can lift 1600 t at speeds to 80 m/min.
1600 tons is a lot more than any block in that temple...
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
So thats your evidence that space aliens did it?
I'm not telling you aliens did it, I am asking you how men did it since obiously you know?
hydraulicspneumatics=sesquipedalian
hydraulicspneumatics=sesquipedalian
Really meem? Because judging from the title of the thread you started
It sure looks like youre saying ancient aliens did it. So what are you saying, meem?
QUOTE
Ron, I Saw A Black Helicopter Show!
Ancient aliens/astronaughts
Ancient aliens/astronaughts
It sure looks like youre saying ancient aliens did it. So what are you saying, meem?
Well if you really need me to repeat myself ...
I'm not telling you aliens did it, I am asking you how men did it since obiously you know?(what I am saying?)
I'm not telling you aliens did it, I am asking you how men did it since obiously you know?(what I am saying?)
QUOTE
QUOTE
"Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. 200-450 ton stones, made from Diorite, which is a material that can only be cut with diamonds. Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge. They also cut stone in such a perfect way so that they would be assembled like Legos, interlocking for premium strength
"Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. 200-450 ton stones, made from Diorite, which is a material that can only be cut with diamonds. Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge. They also cut stone in such a perfect way so that they would be assembled like Legos, interlocking for premium strength
You don't include a link for this one. I suspect it's from one of those UFO sites. Let's see where this comes from shall we.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE "Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. 200-450 ton stones, made from Diorite, which is a material that can only be cut with diamonds. Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge. They also cut stone in such a perfect way so that they would be assembled like Legos, interlocking for premium strength |
You don't include a link for this one. I suspect it's from one of those UFO sites. Let's see where this comes from shall we.
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
They didn't need it. They had manpower... lots of it.. and perseverance. More than enough.
Seriously... find me one archeologist of actual repute that believes any of this alien technology crap. Just because you folks don't understand how it was done does not mean that it's impossible.
A number of projects that I have been personally involved with have been about reviving ancient technologies. I have built (and fired) a catapult and built a number of recreated pieces of armor. The ingenuity of many ancient people is quite astounding. A colleague from Toronto a few years ago got the chance to work on a recreation of a Dreki (Norse longship) and brought back some awesome info. Those ships were better in some respects than modern ships. Incredible stuff... a ship that could go up rivers as well as travel the Atlantic ocean.
Anyway... I imagine most of this is lost on Meem, who would rather believe that UFO's did it.
QUOTE
Even more impressive is the exact cuts they made in the stones, 1 cm deep, not one millimeter off from edge to edge.
So, since that doesn't take "man-power" what does it take then brain power? Would you have me believe they used their minds to do it? where are the tools ... there should be diamond residue somewhere if they used diamonds.
If you want an answer... give me a link to the specific info.
QUOTE
The temperature dependence of the transport properties of these samples is studied in the temperature range from 253 to 333 K.
You do know that 'transport properties' doesn't mean how the stone can be moved from place to place?
Why does your answer depend on my information? I want to know what you think, not what I think, otherwise I could just talk to myself.
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Tiwanaku
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Tiwanaku
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 11:06 AM)
I could just talk to myself.
Then someone would understand you.
Then someone would understand you.
So you refuse to clarify your own remarks. Again.
I dont need to provide an alternative theory in order to discount your aliens did it theory, which you are clearly advocating. And you are beyond dishonest to say Im claiming to "obviously know". But if you look beyond the "world mysteries" website youll find more logical explanations.
For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiwanaku
Tiwanaku monumental architecture is characterized by large stones of exceptional workmanship. In contrast to the masonry style of the later Inca, Tiwanaku stone architecture usually employs rectangular ashlar blocks laid in regular courses, and monumental structures were frequently fitted with elaborate drainage systems. The blocks were placed with great precision and then held together by I-shaped copper bars that were placed in grooves cut into the the stone blocks. The blocks have flat faces that do not need to be fitted upon placement because the grooves make it possible for the blocks to be shifted by ropes into place.[16]
Now why would space aliens need ropes?
And who estimated that block at 400+ tons?
Think meem, think.
I dont need to provide an alternative theory in order to discount your aliens did it theory, which you are clearly advocating. And you are beyond dishonest to say Im claiming to "obviously know". But if you look beyond the "world mysteries" website youll find more logical explanations.
For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiwanaku
QUOTE
Tiwanaku monumental architecture is characterized by large stones of exceptional workmanship. In contrast to the masonry style of the later Inca, Tiwanaku stone architecture usually employs rectangular ashlar blocks laid in regular courses, and monumental structures were frequently fitted with elaborate drainage systems. The blocks were placed with great precision and then held together by I-shaped copper bars that were placed in grooves cut into the the stone blocks. The blocks have flat faces that do not need to be fitted upon placement because the grooves make it possible for the blocks to be shifted by ropes into place.[16]
Now why would space aliens need ropes?
And who estimated that block at 400+ tons?
Think meem, think.
QUOTE
Why does your answer depend on my information?
Because I need information to formulate an answer. You might prefer to just make things up but I don't. Where do you get all this info about the weight of the stones, needing diamonds to cut the rock, etc?
If you can't answer.. there is no point in discussing it.
You're still not explaining the cuts, ropes, cranes, trains, planes, online word games.
Explain a 1cm cut that is not 1m off anywhere .... up to 17000 years ago, from people with no known written language ... or math at the time. Clearly, a person can just know how to do something in their mind ... and since you know this too, you can explain it to me, the idiot?
Mainstream science is afraid to try and answer it because it doesn't know how. And if it can, look it up and prove to me how, and show me that I am making BS statements by proving me wrong with something other than your opinion of mine?
Are my needs yours? I asked a question for an answer, not another question. You could say, I don't know how, and that would pretty much end it. Or you could be a true skeptic and try to figure it out for yourself, and not depend on what I say. You are subjecting your answer to me, to what I say, that's not being objective.
Explain a 1cm cut that is not 1m off anywhere .... up to 17000 years ago, from people with no known written language ... or math at the time. Clearly, a person can just know how to do something in their mind ... and since you know this too, you can explain it to me, the idiot?
Mainstream science is afraid to try and answer it because it doesn't know how. And if it can, look it up and prove to me how, and show me that I am making BS statements by proving me wrong with something other than your opinion of mine?
QUOTE
Because I need information to formulate an answer
Are my needs yours? I asked a question for an answer, not another question. You could say, I don't know how, and that would pretty much end it. Or you could be a true skeptic and try to figure it out for yourself, and not depend on what I say. You are subjecting your answer to me, to what I say, that's not being objective.
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 10:37 AM)
QUOTE
"Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diorite#Historic_use_of_diorite
Wow, that's a lot of diamonds. Unless, of course they used wet sanding to cut the stone...
Here's an incredibly well-researched article on the subject of cutting diorite (and other stones in ancient times)
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...bbing_saws.html
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| "Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diorite#Historic_use_of_diorite
Wow, that's a lot of diamonds. Unless, of course they used wet sanding to cut the stone...
Here's an incredibly well-researched article on the subject of cutting diorite (and other stones in ancient times)
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...bbing_saws.htmlCopper, bronze, and iron are insufficiently in terms of indentation hardness to cut by abrasion hard stones such as basalt, diorite, granite, greywacke (schist), and siliceous sandstone (quartzite). A harder material than the metal itself is required as an abrasive in order to cut these rocks. This abrasive material could have been used either as shards of mineral aggregates or crystals used as cutting teeth, charged copper or bronze (small abrasive grains impregnated into the metal), or as a loose abrasive.
Here's another link on ancient stone working techniques and technologies.
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/e...s/stonetech.php
QUOTE
"The typical method of working hard stones - such as granite, diorite, basalt, etc.- was by means of bronze tools; these were set with cutting points, far harder than the quartz which was operated on. The material of these cutting points is yet undetermined; but only five substances are possible - beryl, topaz, chrysoberyl, corindum or sapphire, and diamond.
So much for the claim that only diamond can cut diorite...
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| "The typical method of working hard stones - such as granite, diorite, basalt, etc.- was by means of bronze tools; these were set with cutting points, far harder than the quartz which was operated on. The material of these cutting points is yet undetermined; but only five substances are possible - beryl, topaz, chrysoberyl, corindum or sapphire, and diamond. |
So much for the claim that only diamond can cut diorite...
I would agree, very wrong, they didn't have one of those.
Again, you prove your ignorance, demonstrating your inability to understand context.Ron: Here's the link for the following quote.
abovetopsecret.com - Aliens helped build Puma Punku
QUOTE
"Cave men" were able to build the most sophisticated stone work the world has ever seen.
It's just a poster on the site making the claim, not an expert. His source for his claims? The Weekly World News website...
OK.. here is some proof for you.
1. Tiwanaku is not 17, 000 years ago. It's from around 400 AD. A difference of nearly 15,000 years.
2. One easy way to ensure accuracy of cuts. Tell the builders that if they are off by one cm, they die. It ensures full concentration.
3. Diorite does not need diamonds to cut it.
General methods of cutting the stones are relatively easy to conjecture though I would need more information to be specific.
1. Using small bits of diorite, quartz or other similar stone and placing them as teeth in a saw or drill. This was done by a number of ancient people.
2. Using diorite, quartz or other similar stone powder, spreading it on the surface of the stone then using a weaker material to saw... using the powder to grind into the rock. This was certainly used by a number of South American tribes.
You don't need aliens... just smart people.
(Edited to add: Crap... Mjolnir beat me to it.)
1. Tiwanaku is not 17, 000 years ago. It's from around 400 AD. A difference of nearly 15,000 years.
2. One easy way to ensure accuracy of cuts. Tell the builders that if they are off by one cm, they die. It ensures full concentration.
3. Diorite does not need diamonds to cut it.
QUOTE
Diorite is an extremely hard rock, making it difficult to carve and work with. It is so hard that ancient civilizations (such as Ancient Egypt) used diorite balls to work granite. Its hardness, however, also allows it to be worked finely and take a high polish, and to provide a durable finished work. Thus, major works in diorite tend to be important.
One comparatively frequent use of diorite was for inscription, as it is easier to carve in relief than in three-dimensional statuary. Perhaps the most famous diorite work extant is the Code of Hammurabi, inscribed upon a 2 metre (7 ft) pillar of black diorite. The original can be seen today in Paris' Musée de Louvre[2]. A few large statues remain, including several statues of King Khafre in the Egyptian Museum. The use of diorite in art was most important among very early Middle Eastern civilizations such as Ancient Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria and Sumer. It was so valued in early times that the first great Mesopotamian empire -- the Empire of Sargon of Akkad -- listed the taking of diorite as a purpose of military expeditions.
Although one can find diorite art from later periods, it became more popular as a structural stone and was frequently used as pavement due to its durability. Diorite was used by both the Inca and Mayan civilizations, but mostly for fortress walls, weaponry, etc. It was especially popular with medieval Islamic builders. In later times, diorite was commonly used as cobblestone; today many diorite cobblestone streets can be found in England, Guernsey and Scotland, and scattered throughout the world in such places as Ecuador and China. Although diorite is rough-textured in nature, its ability to take a polish can be seen in the diorite steps of St. Paul's Cathedral, London, where centuries of foot traffic have polished the steps to a sheen.
One comparatively frequent use of diorite was for inscription, as it is easier to carve in relief than in three-dimensional statuary. Perhaps the most famous diorite work extant is the Code of Hammurabi, inscribed upon a 2 metre (7 ft) pillar of black diorite. The original can be seen today in Paris' Musée de Louvre[2]. A few large statues remain, including several statues of King Khafre in the Egyptian Museum. The use of diorite in art was most important among very early Middle Eastern civilizations such as Ancient Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria and Sumer. It was so valued in early times that the first great Mesopotamian empire -- the Empire of Sargon of Akkad -- listed the taking of diorite as a purpose of military expeditions.
Although one can find diorite art from later periods, it became more popular as a structural stone and was frequently used as pavement due to its durability. Diorite was used by both the Inca and Mayan civilizations, but mostly for fortress walls, weaponry, etc. It was especially popular with medieval Islamic builders. In later times, diorite was commonly used as cobblestone; today many diorite cobblestone streets can be found in England, Guernsey and Scotland, and scattered throughout the world in such places as Ecuador and China. Although diorite is rough-textured in nature, its ability to take a polish can be seen in the diorite steps of St. Paul's Cathedral, London, where centuries of foot traffic have polished the steps to a sheen.
General methods of cutting the stones are relatively easy to conjecture though I would need more information to be specific.
1. Using small bits of diorite, quartz or other similar stone and placing them as teeth in a saw or drill. This was done by a number of ancient people.
2. Using diorite, quartz or other similar stone powder, spreading it on the surface of the stone then using a weaker material to saw... using the powder to grind into the rock. This was certainly used by a number of South American tribes.
You don't need aliens... just smart people.
(Edited to add: Crap... Mjolnir beat me to it.)
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Jul 8 2009, 11:34 AM)
2. One easy way to ensure accuracy of cuts. Tell the builders that if they are off by one cm, they die. It ensures full concentration.
An easy way to ensure perfectly straight cuts: Use water, string, and powdered abrasives.
An easy way to ensure tiny cuts: use thin string.
An easy way to ensure perfect fitting of the tin or iron or bronze fittings used to secure the blocks to each other: Pour melted metal into pre-cut grooves.
It doesn't even take a lot of cleverness, just a little bit. I imagine a mentally retarded person could come up with those solutions, given time and incentive.
An easy way to ensure perfectly straight cuts: Use water, string, and powdered abrasives.
An easy way to ensure tiny cuts: use thin string.
An easy way to ensure perfect fitting of the tin or iron or bronze fittings used to secure the blocks to each other: Pour melted metal into pre-cut grooves.
It doesn't even take a lot of cleverness, just a little bit. I imagine a mentally retarded person could come up with those solutions, given time and incentive.
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 02:27 AM)
12000 years ago, humans build structures made out of stones weighing ... 200,000 to 260,000 pounds .... using laser precision? Explain that to the retard?
12000 milliseconds ago people miss used words.
Among miss used words is "laser precision".
12000 milliseconds ago people miss used words.
Among miss used words is "laser precision".
The above, sesquipedalian.
http://infinity.cos.edu/
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/...gain_info.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9K3DeRS83A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKuE9bVqe8M&feature=related
I have one question, how many pounds does one 800 tons equal? And how would you move it with ropes, and no trees?
Lets just keep to the simple math, 800 tons = 1,600,000 pounds.
http://infinity.cos.edu/
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/...gain_info.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9K3DeRS83A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKuE9bVqe8M&feature=related
I have one question, how many pounds does one 800 tons equal? And how would you move it with ropes, and no trees?
Lets just keep to the simple math, 800 tons = 1,600,000 pounds.
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 05:08 PM)
I have one question, how many pounds does one 800 tons equal? And how would you move it with ropes, and no trees?
Lets just keep to the simple math, 800 tons = 1,600,000 pounds.
Who says that there were stones that weighed 800 tons? Because in the link you provided, it disputes your 400+ ton claim here:
QUOTE
It is joined by the large Puma Punku structure, some of whose stones weigh up to 100 tons apiece.
http://infinity.cos.edu/art/strong/module/...5c/default.html
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jul 8 2009, 11:41 AM)
An easy way to ensure perfectly straight cuts: Use water, string, and powdered abrasives.
An easy way to ensure tiny cuts: use thin string.
An easy way to ensure perfect fitting of the tin or iron or bronze fittings used to secure the blocks to each other: Pour melted metal into pre-cut grooves.
It doesn't even take a lot of cleverness, just a little bit. I imagine a mentally retarded person could come up with those solutions, given time and incentive.
Then, since you are so smart and that is the answer, do it. With strings and water, you know how, so you can do it? I have not given an answer, but you just did. So you know how, so do it. Prove it to me like magpies, would with your mind. You are the crank, in this instance, claiming you know how, and that you are smart enough to do it. (edit) I mean as you have stated, it is clearly easy enough.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-...u-in-Tiahuanaco
http://www.thestoneage.org/stone_age_02_a.php
An easy way to ensure tiny cuts: use thin string.
An easy way to ensure perfect fitting of the tin or iron or bronze fittings used to secure the blocks to each other: Pour melted metal into pre-cut grooves.
It doesn't even take a lot of cleverness, just a little bit. I imagine a mentally retarded person could come up with those solutions, given time and incentive.
Then, since you are so smart and that is the answer, do it. With strings and water, you know how, so you can do it? I have not given an answer, but you just did. So you know how, so do it. Prove it to me like magpies, would with your mind. You are the crank, in this instance, claiming you know how, and that you are smart enough to do it. (edit) I mean as you have stated, it is clearly easy enough.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-...u-in-Tiahuanaco
QUOTE
The stones in Puma Punku are made up of granite, and diorite, and the only stone that is harder that those two, is the diamond. If the people who built this place cut these stones using stone cutting techniques, then they would had to have used diamond tools.
If they didn't use diamonds to cut these stones, then what did they use?
Not only were these stones really hard to cut, but they are also extremely heavy. One of these stone ruins weighs in at about 800 tons! These are big stones, and they are really heavy. The nearest quarry is at least 10 miles away from the site of the ruins. How in the world did these people move these blocks that weighed many tons, and how were they able to form a structure with them?
If they didn't use diamonds to cut these stones, then what did they use?
Not only were these stones really hard to cut, but they are also extremely heavy. One of these stone ruins weighs in at about 800 tons! These are big stones, and they are really heavy. The nearest quarry is at least 10 miles away from the site of the ruins. How in the world did these people move these blocks that weighed many tons, and how were they able to form a structure with them?
http://www.thestoneage.org/stone_age_02_a.php
Did you notice the references from that article?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-...u-in-Tiahuanaco
QUOTE
Sources include; Mystic Places, as well as Ancient Aliens on the History Channel
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-...u-in-Tiahuanaco
QUOTE
http://www.thestoneage.org/stone_age_02_a.php
Really?
Did you notice this at the bottom?:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| http://www.thestoneage.org/stone_age_02_a.php |
Really?
Did you notice this at the bottom?:
This site is based on the works of Harun Yahya."
http://www2.truman.edu/~edis/writings/articles/hyahya.html
QUOTE
One name dominates Turkish creationism: Harun Yahya. Supposedly this is the pen name of Adnan Oktar, the leader of a religious order. But Yahya is credited with so many books, articles, videos, and web pages (www.hyahya.org) that it is hard to believe this is a one-man industry. Plus the intellectual prowess of leaders of religious orders are commonly exaggerated -- tales of incredible intellectual productivity serve as a kind of modern miracle story, bolstering the stature of charismatic teachers. So Yahya is not really a person but the flag under which the most prominent Turkish creationist activities set sail.
Semantics,
You still haven't proved how the work was done. I don't want personal opinions of people who have tried to think about other than yourself, and that is all you are doing, tip-toeing around the issue.
Watch the link, and attack these people That was a link as well, attack everyone questioning with out an answer, just an opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKuE9bVqe8M&feature=related
Are you an ancient "man-wizard" theorist?
(edit)
Where is all this info you can link to me, to prove what you are saying? Prove that. I am not talking about religion I am talking about science. You're better at it, should be easy to find links to disprove how impossible it is to do.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/s...g97/Rescue.html
http://www.uvm.edu/~dblom/DBlomCV.html
http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S0717-...ipt=sci_arttext
You still haven't proved how the work was done. I don't want personal opinions of people who have tried to think about other than yourself, and that is all you are doing, tip-toeing around the issue.
Watch the link, and attack these people That was a link as well, attack everyone questioning with out an answer, just an opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKuE9bVqe8M&feature=related
Are you an ancient "man-wizard" theorist?
(edit)
Where is all this info you can link to me, to prove what you are saying? Prove that. I am not talking about religion I am talking about science. You're better at it, should be easy to find links to disprove how impossible it is to do.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/s...g97/Rescue.html
http://www.uvm.edu/~dblom/DBlomCV.html
http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?pid=S0717-...ipt=sci_arttext
QUOTE (Meem+Jul 8 2009, 12:24 PM)
Then, since you are so smart and that is the answer, do it. With strings and water, you know how, so you can do it? I have not given an answer, but you just did. So you know how, so do it. Prove it to me like magpies, would with your mind. You are the crank, in this instance, claiming you know how, and that you are smart enough to do it. (edit) I mean as you have stated, it is clearly easy enough.
Why should I? I've provided links to pages where it's demonstrated for you. Just because you're too lazy to read any links (including your own, apparently) doesn't mean I have to go the extra mile to prove it to you.
You're the one who wants proof, do it yourself.
Oh, and for the record, I said it takes powdered abrasives, too. String and water alone will get you nowhere.
PS. Look up the definition of sesquipedilian, you're not using it properly.
Why should I? I've provided links to pages where it's demonstrated for you. Just because you're too lazy to read any links (including your own, apparently) doesn't mean I have to go the extra mile to prove it to you.
You're the one who wants proof, do it yourself.
Oh, and for the record, I said it takes powdered abrasives, too. String and water alone will get you nowhere.
PS. Look up the definition of sesquipedilian, you're not using it properly.
Where you demonstrated to me about Modern technology? I asked a question, you're staying it is a stupid question, about the stone age, and giving answer based on current technology really? You don't have to prove anything to me, because you can't honestly answer the question, but you can pretend like you have.
I'm wondering how long it will be now before you start proving how this forum moderates itself with cussing and cursing. Are you an actual archaeologist, physicists, engineer, mathematician, historian or anything even remotely close?
Hmm like diamonds, but are you saying they didn't have to use diamonds, or were you in the same simple answer club? What abrasives? How did they cut holes, with water and string exactly the same length 1cm-1m with absolutely no variation?
Show me an example of your claimed method working on granite or diorite? it doesn't have to be an 800 tons stone, just a 20 pound one will be fine. 4 holes, 4 easy cuts, you can do it because it's easy. All exactly the same with no variation.
You can't. And I can't either.
I'm wondering how long it will be now before you start proving how this forum moderates itself with cussing and cursing. Are you an actual archaeologist, physicists, engineer, mathematician, historian or anything even remotely close?
Hmm like diamonds, but are you saying they didn't have to use diamonds, or were you in the same simple answer club? What abrasives? How did they cut holes, with water and string exactly the same length 1cm-1m with absolutely no variation?
Show me an example of your claimed method working on granite or diorite? it doesn't have to be an 800 tons stone, just a 20 pound one will be fine. 4 holes, 4 easy cuts, you can do it because it's easy. All exactly the same with no variation.
You can't. And I can't either.
Then amish aliens it is. Great job meem.
OK.. we explained how it was done.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
QUOTE (occidental+Jul 8 2009, 01:22 PM)
Then amish aliens it is. Great job meem.
QUOTE
RobDegraves,Jul 8 2009, 01:42 PM] OK.. we explained how it was done.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Archaeology-654...ing-Methods.htm
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| RobDegraves,Jul 8 2009, 01:42 PM] OK.. we explained how it was done. We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old. You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless. |
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Archaeology-654...ing-Methods.htm
Radioactive dating in general depends on three major assumptions:
1. When the rock forms (hardens) there should only be parent radioactive atoms in the rock and no daughter radiogenic (derived by radioactive decay of another element) atoms;
2. After hardening, the rock must remain a closed system, that is, no parent or daughter atoms should be added to or removed from the rock by external influences such as percolating ground water; and
3. The radioactive decay rate must remain constant.
Radiometric dating methods make assumptions that have been proven to be inconsistent. If any of these assumptions are violated, then the technique fails and any ‘dates' are false. Leaching, varying isotope ratios, etc. indicate the methods at best are unreliable. Dr. Steve Austin at ICR tested rocks from the bottom and top of Grand Canyon. Three of the four methods showed that the bottom rocks were younger than the top rock an IMPOSSIBLE conclusion. The radiological methods date rocks that were liquid and are now solid. These rocks do not contain fossils. The fossil bearing rock is sedimentary (laid down under water in Noah's flood). Evolutionists consistently disregard radiometric dates that conflict with their time scheme. If a date doesn't support evolution they throw it away. See John Morris' "Young Earth" and the book “Bone of Contention” for a detailed study of “missing links of apes to men.
Carbon Dating is a method that is often cited to “prove” evolution. It does not because:
1) as a method it can only extend to 50,000 years not millions of years,
2) C14 can only date tissue not fossils (stone impressions of bones). When you find (some have been found) real dinosaur bones it is a testimony to creation because biological tissue won't last millions of years. (I don't know about this)
3) Carbon 14 has not come to balance in the atmosphere indicating a young not old atmosphere.
You aren't really serious, I hope?
This doesn't bode well...
This doesn't bode well...
Well, I say it is older ... I don't know how to prove it though through carbon dating of the stone. Not 2000-3000 years
It's pretty hard to find legit science on it because it seems all the skeptics already know. Who is "legit" that has gone to test it? I mean ... I know carbon dating is a serious issue at these sites.
The afore mentioned time-line by someone else seems to agree ... with a "believer." I don't know what to think. That's why I have been asking questions?
It's pretty hard to find legit science on it because it seems all the skeptics already know. Who is "legit" that has gone to test it? I mean ... I know carbon dating is a serious issue at these sites.
The afore mentioned time-line by someone else seems to agree ... with a "believer." I don't know what to think. That's why I have been asking questions?
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jul 7 2009, 10:49 PM)
ROFLMAO I'd give you 3 days at the Joint. If that...
Anyone want to place bets how long he'll last before Sapo gets sick of his crap and blocks his IP address?
EDIT
How about less than 24 hours?
He still has about 8 left, so if you want to start a pool, get cracking!
Anyone want to place bets how long he'll last before Sapo gets sick of his crap and blocks his IP address?
EDIT
How about less than 24 hours?
He still has about 8 left, so if you want to start a pool, get cracking!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Age
At what period did coper come into play? The hinge pins for some of the stones/igneous rock?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can't_sc...an_igneous_rock
At what period did coper come into play? The hinge pins for some of the stones/igneous rock?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can't_sc...an_igneous_rock
Hmmm.. do you not even look at the stuff you link to?
The BBC show you linked to discusses the age problem and has a fairly firm view of the obvious evidence.
There are the remains of an older settlement underneath the stones that were placed there. This settlement has a number of pieces of biological debris... carbon dated at around 3000 years ago. Ergo the site on top has to be younger than that.
The BBC show you linked to discusses the age problem and has a fairly firm view of the obvious evidence.
There are the remains of an older settlement underneath the stones that were placed there. This settlement has a number of pieces of biological debris... carbon dated at around 3000 years ago. Ergo the site on top has to be younger than that.
Hey Guys,
Rob, OC, Thunder Britches,
I can't believe I missed a thread with my name in it for so long.
Hi Meem,
Sorry to leave you hangin, but things seem to have gone swimmingly without me!
I saw that Ancient Aliens show on the history channel and I liked it . The Bolivian site, being like 17K years old, is a mind blower in itself. The fact that there is no written record of it and no written language in existence at the time, makes it quite an enigma. I would like to have something other than speculation to work with, though. Even the Pyramid construction, a feat I would never want to minimize without solid evidence, had references to the help they got from sky people , or some such.
I get much more interested with really, really old stuff, though. I just have to wonder what might be unrecoverable from our past. The map of Antarctica's land mass, that's a freak too. I like thinking about the possibilities that, like I've said before, our ancestors were hard wired just like us, so, if any knowledge has gotten lost, we'd be starting from scratch.
Also, not to give you too much ammo to get into it with the guys, look into the 2 billion year old reactor. It's been calculated that a large enough mass of natural uranium would have, back then, been able to sustain a chain reaction naturally. Very cool concept, as it's been explained, but if you use your imagination...!
Peace,
Ron
Rob, OC, Thunder Britches,
I can't believe I missed a thread with my name in it for so long.
Hi Meem,
Sorry to leave you hangin, but things seem to have gone swimmingly without me!
I saw that Ancient Aliens show on the history channel and I liked it . The Bolivian site, being like 17K years old, is a mind blower in itself. The fact that there is no written record of it and no written language in existence at the time, makes it quite an enigma. I would like to have something other than speculation to work with, though. Even the Pyramid construction, a feat I would never want to minimize without solid evidence, had references to the help they got from sky people , or some such.
I get much more interested with really, really old stuff, though. I just have to wonder what might be unrecoverable from our past. The map of Antarctica's land mass, that's a freak too. I like thinking about the possibilities that, like I've said before, our ancestors were hard wired just like us, so, if any knowledge has gotten lost, we'd be starting from scratch.
Also, not to give you too much ammo to get into it with the guys, look into the 2 billion year old reactor. It's been calculated that a large enough mass of natural uranium would have, back then, been able to sustain a chain reaction naturally. Very cool concept, as it's been explained, but if you use your imagination...!
Peace,
Ron
Heya Ron,
That is pretty interesting stuff. But much like you hope, I don't want to get "into" anything with these guys. So I won't.
Later on.
That is pretty interesting stuff. But much like you hope, I don't want to get "into" anything with these guys. So I won't.
Later on.
QUOTE (Granouille+Jul 8 2009, 03:48 PM)
How about less than 24 hours?
He still has about 8 left, so if you want to start a pool, get cracking!
Thunderbritches had it right on the money.
I deleted the spammer and his posts this morning. I'm getting more patient, I suppose.
He still has about 8 left, so if you want to start a pool, get cracking!
Thunderbritches had it right on the money.
I deleted the spammer and his posts this morning. I'm getting more patient, I suppose.
I suppose, I will always be a misunderstood joke, or hippie. What a horrible life, for me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JhFNSU3IV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JhFNSU3IV0
Poor misunderstood meem. Poor poor meem.
img129.imageshack.us/i/proofn.jpg/ they won't let me post a link so just add the http: // and you'll get to my image.
So here's a stone from the site. as you can see by the lines I've drawn, the measurements from the edge of the stone to the line at the top and at the bottom are different lengths. A line will always be straight, by definition its only a link between two points. So while the line is straight it is not straight when compared to the face of the stone. Also notice the drilled holes found within the lines. this is how they created such a good line. by using a simple chalk string a guide line can be created. small holes are drilled into the stone as a guide for when the line is cut, most likely with some kind of string drill with an abrasive powder to do the cutting work. These stones are impressive but not as precise as most people make them out to be. Many civilizations in the Andean region carved stone on sight so that the pieces could be made to fit together easier. Quarried stone could be shaped to roll with ease to the work site, then shaped for their intended purpose. They could also use stone rollers instead of log rollers to help in moving the stone. And yes these people had knowledge of the wheel, it can be seen in children's toys. The terrain in which these people lived made it impractical for use. Many civilizations have used diorite as a medium including the Egyptians. Yes many skilled people had to work together to make this impressive sight, but that is what civilizations do.
So here's a stone from the site. as you can see by the lines I've drawn, the measurements from the edge of the stone to the line at the top and at the bottom are different lengths. A line will always be straight, by definition its only a link between two points. So while the line is straight it is not straight when compared to the face of the stone. Also notice the drilled holes found within the lines. this is how they created such a good line. by using a simple chalk string a guide line can be created. small holes are drilled into the stone as a guide for when the line is cut, most likely with some kind of string drill with an abrasive powder to do the cutting work. These stones are impressive but not as precise as most people make them out to be. Many civilizations in the Andean region carved stone on sight so that the pieces could be made to fit together easier. Quarried stone could be shaped to roll with ease to the work site, then shaped for their intended purpose. They could also use stone rollers instead of log rollers to help in moving the stone. And yes these people had knowledge of the wheel, it can be seen in children's toys. The terrain in which these people lived made it impractical for use. Many civilizations have used diorite as a medium including the Egyptians. Yes many skilled people had to work together to make this impressive sight, but that is what civilizations do.
I tried your link but it didn't work. Could you repost it please? I am curious now.
QUOTE (RobDegraves+Jul 8 2009, 02:42 PM)
OK.. we explained how it was done.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
This link claims site is "(estimated to be 17,000 years)"
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_6.htm
Not that I agree.
We explained that the site is not 17,000 years old. Your own link even says that it's less than 3000 years old.
You are seriously not able to learn anything so this discussion is pointless.
This link claims site is "(estimated to be 17,000 years)"
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_6.htm
Not that I agree.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+Jul 8 2009, 05:02 AM)
... newguy got himself banned within 2 or 3 days.
I could be wrong, but I thought newguy quit (after being cautioned).
I could be wrong, but I thought newguy quit (after being cautioned).
pnelson419
That site has been quoted a few times and it's garbage. Note that it does not say who dated that site as being 17000 years old nor anything to warrant that belief. The entire article is an opinion piece by someone who is trying to suggest that it was built by aliens. Arthur Posnansky's theories have long since been discredited by modern archeology. An amusing note is that the books they are selling at the bottom of the page include one that claims the site to be around 1500 years old.
QUOTE
This link claims site is "(estimated to be 17,000 years)"
That site has been quoted a few times and it's garbage. Note that it does not say who dated that site as being 17000 years old nor anything to warrant that belief. The entire article is an opinion piece by someone who is trying to suggest that it was built by aliens. Arthur Posnansky's theories have long since been discredited by modern archeology. An amusing note is that the books they are selling at the bottom of the page include one that claims the site to be around 1500 years old.
I just think it is ingenious what ancient man did with stone with what they had as I am with the architecture 1000 or even 100 years ago.
I agree.
A lot of people tend to underestimate the ingenuity of people in the past. People, even ancient people (an odd term that I don't tend to use other than in a general fashion), were as smart or as stupid as we are now. There is little difference between our medieval ancestors and us... other than that we stand on the shoulders of giants.. to coin a phrase.
Eratosthenes and other scholars of the period (between the 3rd and 1st centuries BC) not only knew the world to be round... they calculated the size to within about 10%. (BTW... I am simplifying a long story to make it more cogent) More than 1500 years after that... we were right back to the flat Earth theories.
Heron of Alexandria designed and built a steam engine a little less than 2000 years before the industrial revolution began.
Roman architecture is easily better than many examples of modern architecture. One of my favorite examples of this is from Turkey... Istanbul specifically. After the massive earthquake that devastated the area, I saw several fascinating pictures. Amongst the rubble, with every building in sight completely flattened... the Roman palace in the middle of it all stood undamaged and unfazed.
Otzi the Iceman is a man that was found frozen in the Alps and dates from around 3300 BC. More than 5 thousand years ago. His gear astounded many archeologists. His shoes were reproduced and found to have been waterproof, excellent for walking on snow and very warm. The rest of his gear was likewise surprisingly sophisticated. Of course, primitive by our standards... sort of... but very functional.
Otzi's shoes
And all this was done without any help from aliens. Amazing.
A lot of people tend to underestimate the ingenuity of people in the past. People, even ancient people (an odd term that I don't tend to use other than in a general fashion), were as smart or as stupid as we are now. There is little difference between our medieval ancestors and us... other than that we stand on the shoulders of giants.. to coin a phrase.
Eratosthenes and other scholars of the period (between the 3rd and 1st centuries BC) not only knew the world to be round... they calculated the size to within about 10%. (BTW... I am simplifying a long story to make it more cogent) More than 1500 years after that... we were right back to the flat Earth theories.
Heron of Alexandria designed and built a steam engine a little less than 2000 years before the industrial revolution began.
Roman architecture is easily better than many examples of modern architecture. One of my favorite examples of this is from Turkey... Istanbul specifically. After the massive earthquake that devastated the area, I saw several fascinating pictures. Amongst the rubble, with every building in sight completely flattened... the Roman palace in the middle of it all stood undamaged and unfazed.
Otzi the Iceman is a man that was found frozen in the Alps and dates from around 3300 BC. More than 5 thousand years ago. His gear astounded many archeologists. His shoes were reproduced and found to have been waterproof, excellent for walking on snow and very warm. The rest of his gear was likewise surprisingly sophisticated. Of course, primitive by our standards... sort of... but very functional.
Otzi's shoes
And all this was done without any help from aliens. Amazing.
QUOTE (Derek1148+Jul 26 2009, 01:26 PM)
I could be wrong, but I thought newguy quit (after being cautioned).
Nope, blocked at the IP for not posting, just trolling for dirt to fling here.
Nope, blocked at the IP for not posting, just trolling for dirt to fling here.
QUOTE (MjolnirPants+)
...and newguy got himself banned within 2 or 3 days.
MP: I think Derek is referring to my SECOND round of posting at the Joint. I did leave VOLUNTARILY recently, after posting quite a few times. I suppose that you are referring to the FIRST time around. Just to clear up the confusion...
MP: I think Derek is referring to my SECOND round of posting at the Joint. I did leave VOLUNTARILY recently, after posting quite a few times. I suppose that you are referring to the FIRST time around. Just to clear up the confusion...
The address I put in my last post works. You have to put the http: / / in front of it without www.
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