So THE DOC and GENESPLICER both are complaining about me, and on the same topic. One of them is a Mafia Member. Well at least one.
Both of those are accurate statements.
Not as such. You seem to equate citing your inability to follow a conversation, properly track who you are actually debating form post to post and your failing to remember exactly what you have posted and what actions you have taken as complaints. What has been cited are simply factual representation of your hypocrisy and rather chaotic debating techniques.
QUOTE
Gene, if you ARE so open minded and not driven to ad hominem and personal attacks alone, why are you not responding to the ARGUMENTS and ASSERTIONS I make, instead of dancing around semantic silly issues like whether or not a few negs in 3 years makes someone a liar?
What ad hominems would those be? Since the topic was your claiming to have not left any negatives, citing that you have any your inability to remember such is the topic and not an ad hominem.
And what arguments and assertions would those be? Your demands that I satisfy some irrelevant demands of your regarding your inability to remember who you are debating and what you have posted in the past?
And again, you are being intellectually dishonest by trying to portray your use of negative feedback as one of the distant past. The negative feedback cited was rather recent was it not?
So does that mean you have a limited window of being able to remember what you debated, what actions you took and what claims you made?
That would go a long way to explaining why your claims of the past seem contradictory at time. But again, it could be just you arguing a topic for the sake of arguing like you have admitted to in the past.
The fact remains that if another person, say one you had a dislike for, made a similar mistaken claim as you did, you would launch into accusation of lying.
The fact you have again gone to such great lengths in making up excuses for your inability to keep posters straight or remember you own action is a testament to your intellectual dishonesty.
And that doesn’t even include your feeble attempts at justifying your mistaken claim even if it was made honestly.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Gene, if you ARE so open minded and not driven to ad hominem and personal attacks alone, why are you not responding to the ARGUMENTS and ASSERTIONS I make, instead of dancing around semantic silly issues like whether or not a few negs in 3 years makes someone a liar? |
What ad hominems would those be? Since the topic was your claiming to have not left any negatives, citing that you have any your inability to remember such is the topic and not an ad hominem.
And what arguments and assertions would those be? Your demands that I satisfy some irrelevant demands of your regarding your inability to remember who you are debating and what you have posted in the past?
And again, you are being intellectually dishonest by trying to portray your use of negative feedback as one of the distant past. The negative feedback cited was rather recent was it not?
So does that mean you have a limited window of being able to remember what you debated, what actions you took and what claims you made?
That would go a long way to explaining why your claims of the past seem contradictory at time. But again, it could be just you arguing a topic for the sake of arguing like you have admitted to in the past.
The fact remains that if another person, say one you had a dislike for, made a similar mistaken claim as you did, you would launch into accusation of lying.
The fact you have again gone to such great lengths in making up excuses for your inability to keep posters straight or remember you own action is a testament to your intellectual dishonesty.
And that doesn’t even include your feeble attempts at justifying your mistaken claim even if it was made honestly.
As you should remember from the Gay Marriage issue, if you present your arguments cogently and well, and address my concerns, even on SUBJECTIVE issues I am demonstrably capable of accepting correction and amending my views.
By whose measure? Page after page you made the argument against personal freedoms in favor of church dogma and authority parroting the most unreasonable claims and demands.
In other matters, you have followed suit with that style of debate. So far, two claims of yours are still lacking in anything but your own hollow opinion to back them up.
And yes, I remember your change of heart. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that it was a serious change of opinion, I left you a positive.
Odd how even after that, you still try to claim that my actions are somehow devious and questionable.
QUOTE
Personal attacks and trying to justify calling me a "liar" are not going to get the job done, and frankly just make you seem petty.
And trying to claim that I am calling you a liar over your memory laps or inability to account for your own actions is again being intellectually dishonest. Cite where I called you a liar over your mistaken claim of not leaving negative feedback.
And again, since your mistaken claim was the topic, it is not an ad hominem.
Your other erroneous claims include one that I have left a large amount of negative feedback over the last three weeks.
Care to cite anything to back that up?
Or are you going to be intellectual honest and state that you made yet another erroneous claim?
TheDoc
21st May 2008 - 02:57 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQUOTE
Gene, if you ARE so open minded and not driven to ad hominem and personal attacks alone, why are you not responding to the ARGUMENTS and ASSERTIONS I make, instead of dancing around semantic silly issues like whether or not a few negs in 3 years makes someone a liar?
Your statement is contradicted by your actions. That's one neg compared to some 200 I may have given out...
but that one neg still contradicts your statements. By your logic, I can claim that I've never given a negative to Confused2.
Speaking of assertions, why haven't you backed up your claim that I "despise" alot of people?
Masked Marauder
21st May 2008 - 01:23 PM
GeneSplicer, Doc, You guys rock... I love to see our local religious fanatics take a serious a** whuppin (metaphorically speaking). It really brightens my day. Gotta love the religious dogma they spread... Let me review for a moment in my "layman fashion".
I think its great to worship a deity that has a tendency to drown out his "children" and everything else when they don't grovel and worship him in the manner to which he is accustomed.
Even better when he is willing to sacrifice his "only son" to pay for our what... sins? Now, if he is willing to do that to his only son, what do you think he is willing to do to you?
And I love the idea of beating the living he** out of one of my truest believers (Job was the name I think) just to see if he would continue to worship me or not!
I love deitys that are that petty and conceited....

(Give me more of that, please!)
Then to top that all off, this god doesn't leave one shred of proof that he exists, and you get to take it all on "faith"...
Science on the other hand gives me something I can measure, test, and experience first hand...
Gotta love the sheep that follow the "belief" route... baa baa!
photojack
22nd May 2008 - 05:44 AM
Masked Marauder, I think you nailed it with your "layman fashion"!

I think deadbeat left the forum.
No

from me!
Who'll step up to the plate to take us on next? ((

))
GeneSplicer
25th May 2008 - 02:57 AM
Normally I give ample time for a person to reply. Modern life being what it is, it is not uncommon for a person to be delayed with work and all in replying, but it has been several days and I have yet to see Deadbeat trying to reply.
Have you simply given up trolling (as in prowling) this forum DB?
deadbeat
27th May 2008 - 11:22 PM
HAHA
Vacation, you should try it.
But I am back again.
golf is fun.
Gorgeous
27th May 2008 - 11:37 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+May 27 2008, 11:22 PM)
HAHA
Vacation, you should try it.
But I am back again.
golf is fun.
Incredible coincidence, you and newguy being away AND back at the same time like that!
g.
GeneSplicer
28th May 2008 - 12:53 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+May 27 2008, 07:22 PM)
HAHA
Vacation, you should try it.
But I am back again.
golf is fun.
I did take a vacation a few weekends ago when I took my youngest camping.
And again, like I stated before, I normally give ample amounts of time. If you were on vacation, then so be it. I’ll wait until you feel you can reply.
As far as golf goes, well my opinion of that particular activity would be in line with that of George Carlin, before he became a bitter old man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nehpbf8wjJw&feature=related
deadbeat
28th May 2008 - 05:31 AM
Reply to what?
Since you cannot address real issues, you still beating on the "neg" drum again?
We have discussed that more than enough, I am done with that issue.
Find something else to rant about.
GeneSplicer
28th May 2008 - 01:11 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
Reply to what?
Back to that again I see. I would just point out the question or debate that was ongoing before your vacation, but as it has been demonstrated by your on several threads so far, you are incapable of going back one or two pages to address questions asked of you.
So you can ignore whatever you cannot answer or address in an intellectually honest manner all you like. Again, you reputation.
QUOTE
Since you cannot address real issues, you still beating on the "neg" drum again?
You mean the fact that you made yet another erroneous claim about me? (rhetorical)
Or was it the fact that again you cannot keep straight whom you are actually debating from thread to thread? (rhetorical)
Odd how you make such claim of fact and yet when your claims are shown to be erroneous you simply try to ignore your habitual posting if such fallacious claims.
And we were discussing the “real” issues DB and you chose to go off on a tangent about negative feedback, claims of people being members of the FM and such rather than to back up your religious claims about marriage.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Since you cannot address real issues, you still beating on the "neg" drum again? |
You mean the fact that you made yet another erroneous claim about me? (rhetorical)
Or was it the fact that again you cannot keep straight whom you are actually debating from thread to thread? (rhetorical)
Odd how you make such claim of fact and yet when your claims are shown to be erroneous you simply try to ignore your habitual posting if such fallacious claims.
And we were discussing the “real” issues DB and you chose to go off on a tangent about negative feedback, claims of people being members of the FM and such rather than to back up your religious claims about marriage.
We have discussed that more than enough, I am done with that issue.
Yes, I’m surer you are done since it has been illustrated that you made another fallacious claim about people you are debating.
Odd how whenever you are illustrated to be in error, you either try to shift the topic or declare that you are simple “done” with that particular issue.
QUOTE
Find something else to rant about.
Ranting would be more indicative of a person who continually posts claims that he or she is simply unable to back up with anything but their religious based opinion or presumption based ideology. Claims like marriage is the creation of religion or that all laws originate from religion.
And again, illustrating you inability to be instinctually honest or go back a few pages, the topic of marriage and you related claims is still one that you have yet to support with anything other than your hollow opinion.
So you can equivocate and back peddle all you wish, but a very viable topic ands related questions and discussion points are still in play.
Unless of course you wish to use your fallacious claims about negative feedback and the equally fallacious claims regarding the actions of others on this forum as a way of walking away from the discussion.
TheDoc
29th May 2008 - 05:50 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
Since you cannot address real issues, you still beating on the "neg" drum again?
We have discussed that more than enough, I am done with that issue.
So you admit that your statement that you do not negative anybody was erronous?
QUOTE
Find something else to rant about.
Ok. Why haven't you backed up your claim that I (or GeneSplicer for that matter) "despise" people? Come on, it should be pretty easy for you...
photojack
30th May 2008 - 02:28 PM
deadbeat, here's the latest from the geniuses running the RCC!
Vatican: excommunication for female priests. VATICAN CITY - The Vatican is slamming the door on attempts by women to become priests in the Roman Catholic Church. It has strongly reiterated in a decree that anyone involved in ordination ceremonies is automatically excommunicated.
A top Vatican official said in a statement Friday that the church acted following what it called "so-called ordinations" in various parts of the world.
Monsignor Angelo Amato of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says the Vatican also wants to provide bishops with a clear response on the issue.
The church has always banned the ordination of women, stating that the priesthood is reserved for males. The new decree is explicit in its reference to women.
deadbeat, What is the science, reasoning or logic behind this? ((

))
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 01:39 AM
QUOTE (photojack+May 30 2008, 02:28 PM)
deadbeat, here's the latest from the geniuses running the RCC!
Vatican: excommunication for female priests. VATICAN CITY - The Vatican is slamming the door on attempts by women to become priests in the Roman Catholic Church. It has strongly reiterated in a decree that anyone involved in ordination ceremonies is automatically excommunicated.
A top Vatican official said in a statement Friday that the church acted following what it called "so-called ordinations" in various parts of the world.
Monsignor Angelo Amato of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says the Vatican also wants to provide bishops with a clear response on the issue.
The church has always banned the ordination of women, stating that the priesthood is reserved for males. The new decree is explicit in its reference to women.
deadbeat, What is the science, reasoning or logic behind this? ((

))
HAHAH
Wow, there NEEDS to be science, the hard objective kind, for every ethical and moral position? Do not recall I ever said that.
Do quote to me where science has objectively proven that men and women are equal and identical in every way, and that they each, regardless of sex can perform any job with identical efficiency...
Wow.
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 01:41 AM
QUOTE (TheDoc+May 29 2008, 05:50 PM)
Ok. Why haven't you backed up your claim that I (or GeneSplicer for that matter) "despise" people? Come on, it should be pretty easy for you...
HAHAHAH
Wow.
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 01:44 AM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+May 28 2008, 01:11 PM)
<irrational ranting of an extremely repetitive nature>
Yawn
GeneSplicer
1st June 2008 - 02:12 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+May 31 2008, 09:44 PM)
Yawn
Censoring that which you cannot debate honestly again.
Odd how many in your position resort to such actions. The notable Robin Parsons being one such person.
So, rather than address the fact that you have made erroneous claims about me or outright lies, you try to dismiss or excuse your lack of adherence to any sort of standards or an honest debate and you post the rather juvenile reply of “irrational ranting of an extremely repetitive nature”.
Still, you cannot face the fact that you posted erroneous claims based upon your bias, or is it hatred, and ignorance, willful it appears, of others.
Odd how your touted morality does not compel you to follow anything that resembles character.
TheDoc
1st June 2008 - 02:35 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQUOTE
Wow.
No, seriously! Look, here's your statement:
QUOTE (->
No, seriously! Look, here's your statement:
However, I did not remember that particular occasion, and 1 or 3 negatives over a several year period is nothing.
Most people you despise have that many from YOU alone in three weeks.
Do cite one instance of me or GeneSplicer "despising" someone.
QUOTE
Yawn
So in other words, you can't respond to anything he's said. Yeah, I thought so.
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 04:27 AM
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 1 2008, 02:35 AM)
Do cite one instance of me or GeneSplicer "despising" someone.
So in other words, you can't respond to anything he's said. Yeah, I thought so.
QUOTE (dictionary.com+ despise)
de·spise
–verb (used with object), -spised, -spis·ing. to regard with contempt, distaste, disgust, or disdain; scorn; loathe.
Well Doc-o, you are easy
QUOTE (My own feedback+)
TheDoc Posted: Apr 8 2008, 04:21 AM
Negative Hypocritical, lying, ignorant, delusional idiot.
TheDoc Posted: Mar 30 2008, 11:08 PM
Negative Proof positive that the term "Religious thought" is an oxy-mor@n. Demand a refund from the college that you attended.
TheDoc Posted: Mar 21 2008, 10:14 PM
Negative Hi, loser.
TheDoc Posted: May 26 2008, 07:01 PM
Negative You've consistently made yourself look like an idiot. Congratulations!
TheDoc Posted: May 11 2008, 08:40 PM
Negative Idiot.
TheDoc Posted: Apr 8 2008, 04:21 AM
Negative Hypocritical, lying, ignorant, delusional idiot.
now Gene is a little tougher, he does not Neg and actually gave me a few Pos over the years, but here are some recent comments to me
QUOTE (Genesplicer+)
And yet another juvenile posting from you. Couldn’t you come up with something better than the Peewee Herman come-back of “I know you are but what am I”?
Either that, or you are not bright enough to follow the thread.
QUOTE (genesplicer+)
So, rather than address the fact that you have made erroneous claims about me or outright lies, you try to dismiss or excuse your lack of adherence to any sort of standards or an honest debate and you post the rather juvenile reply of “irrational ranting of an extremely repetitive nature”.
Still, you cannot face the fact that you posted erroneous claims based upon your bias, or is it hatred, and ignorance, willful it appears, of others.
Odd how your touted morality does not compel you to follow anything that resembles character.
QUOTE (genesplicer+)
According to a person who continually posts outright lies from your arrogance, ignorance or both.
So actually it turns out to be quite easily done, and that is only using ME as an example. I am sure if I looked at others, the examples would be rather large
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 07:36 AM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 1 2008, 02:12 AM)
Censoring that which you cannot debate honestly again.
Odd how many in your position resort to such actions. The notable Robin Parsons being one such person.
So, rather than address the fact that you have made erroneous claims about me or outright lies, you try to dismiss or excuse your lack of adherence to any sort of standards or an honest debate and you post the rather juvenile reply of “irrational ranting of an extremely repetitive nature”.
Still, you cannot face the fact that you posted erroneous claims based upon your bias, or is it hatred, and ignorance, willful it appears, of others.
Odd how your touted morality does not compel you to follow anything that resembles character.
So WHAT exactly was the original topic you had so much problem with? Was it marriage?
I have been over this many times over several threads, do at least refresh us all with what your position is, or at least what of my position you disagree with.
If you are so excited and aggravated about something not properly dealt with by me (other than tangential irrelevant points about who actually ever negged someone, or whether or not you claim to be a member of the forum mafia) then you should be at least motivated enough to save us the chore of wading through the pages of ranting and irrelevant gibberish and off-topic silliness and state what it is that is so grievous.
Though I find it funny you taking the side with TheDoc who is an openly admitted Mafia member.
If you want to have debate and discussion fine, whining and recriminations are uninteresting.
TheDoc
1st June 2008 - 07:00 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
QUOTE (dictionary.com @ despise+)
de·spise
–verb (used with object), -spised, -spis·ing. to regard with
contempt, distaste, disgust, or
disdain; scorn;
loathe. Hmm...
QUOTE (Wiktionary+)
contempt (plural contempts)
1. (uncountable) The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as
inferior, base, or worthless; scorn.
2. The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
Now contempt is pretty easy. I don't think of myself as "superior" to anyone, ever.
QUOTE (Wiktionary+)
disdain (uncountable)
1. (uncountable) A feeling of contempt or scorn.
[edit] Synonyms
*
condescension, contempt, scorn
Same as above.
QUOTE (Wiktionary+)
to loathe (third-person singular simple present loathes, present participle loathing, simple past and past participle loathed)
1. To
hate, detest, revile.
I don't hate anyone either. I dislike them when they start spouting misconceptions but that doesn't drive me to
hate.
QUOTE
now Gene is a little tougher, he does not Neg and actually gave me a few Pos over the years, but here are some recent comments to me
In those quotes (specifically, the first and second ones), GeneSplicer makes accurate descriptions/assertions. How is he "despising" you?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
now Gene is a little tougher, he does not Neg and actually gave me a few Pos over the years, but here are some recent comments to me
|
In those quotes (specifically, the first and second ones), GeneSplicer makes accurate descriptions/assertions. How is he "despising" you?
So actually it turns out to be quite easily done, and that is only using ME as an example. I am sure if I looked at others, the examples would be rather large
It was also quite easy to disprove you, and that was done using only words that you quote from Dictionary.com. As you like to say, "your kung-fu is weak".
deadbeat
1st June 2008 - 11:46 PM
QUOTE (TheDoc+Jun 1 2008, 07:00 PM)
Hmm...
Same as above.
I don't hate anyone either. I dislike them when they start spouting misconceptions but that doesn't drive me to
hate.
In those quotes (specifically, the first and second ones), GeneSplicer makes accurate descriptions/assertions. How is he "despising" you?
It was also quite easy to disprove you, and that was done using only words that you quote from Dictionary.com. As you like to say, "your kung-fu is weak".
HAHAHA
Well you keep thinking that, my original post and demonstration stand. I am perfectly happy to let the reader judge, it is more than well enough supported for my taste.
TheDoc
2nd June 2008 - 12:16 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAQUOTE
Well you keep thinking that, my original post and demonstration stand. I am perfectly happy to let the reader judge, it is more than well enough supported for my taste.
I'm perfectly happy to let the reader judge as well - which is why I started
this thread.
GeneSplicer
2nd June 2008 - 02:06 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
now Gene is a little tougher, he does not Neg and actually gave me a few Pos over the years, but here are some recent comments to me
So that means your claim that I did neg people was wrong.
QUOTE
So actually it turns out to be quite easily done, and that is only using ME as an example.
Only if you take any objection to your hollow claims and juvenile actions as me loathing you. But you have a track record of justifying all manners of actions and claims.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So actually it turns out to be quite easily done, and that is only using ME as an example. |
Only if you take any objection to your hollow claims and juvenile actions as me loathing you. But you have a track record of justifying all manners of actions and claims.
I am sure if I looked at others, the examples would be rather large
I’m sure you could make up or spin whatever you needed. Citing the lack of character in your actions is not the same as me declaring that I despise, loath or am disgusted by you.
QUOTE
So WHAT exactly was the original topic you had so much problem with? Was it marriage?
So I was right. You cannot go back even a few pages to check what exactly the topic was or what you were arguing.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So WHAT exactly was the original topic you had so much problem with? Was it marriage? |
So I was right. You cannot go back even a few pages to check what exactly the topic was or what you were arguing.
I have been over this many times over several threads, do at least refresh us all with what your position is, or at least what of my position you disagree with.
How about we just address your posting of claims you cannot back up of a personal nature of those you debate against.
Even when the personal claims you make are shown to be erroneous, you seek to justify them and excuse yourself from following or adhering to any standards.
QUOTE
If you are so excited and aggravated about something not properly dealt with by me (other than tangential irrelevant points about who actually ever negged someone, or whether or not you claim to be a member of the forum mafia) then you should be at least motivated enough to save us the chore of wading through the pages of ranting and irrelevant gibberish and off-topic silliness and state what it is that is so grievous.
Excited or aggravated? You see emotional content where none is included by my intent.
You only call it irrelevant after you have been shown to have posted yet another erroneous and ignorant personal claim of those you seem to have issues with.
And as far as citing anything for discussion, you have got to be joking.
I have on several occasions quoted your claims directly and linked to your own posts and you ignored them.
And on top of that, you cannot make such claims, personal or otherwise, as when shown to be erroneous simply dismiss them and cower away.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| If you are so excited and aggravated about something not properly dealt with by me (other than tangential irrelevant points about who actually ever negged someone, or whether or not you claim to be a member of the forum mafia) then you should be at least motivated enough to save us the chore of wading through the pages of ranting and irrelevant gibberish and off-topic silliness and state what it is that is so grievous. |
Excited or aggravated? You see emotional content where none is included by my intent.
You only call it irrelevant after you have been shown to have posted yet another erroneous and ignorant personal claim of those you seem to have issues with.
And as far as citing anything for discussion, you have got to be joking.
I have on several occasions quoted your claims directly and linked to your own posts and you ignored them.
And on top of that, you cannot make such claims, personal or otherwise, as when shown to be erroneous simply dismiss them and cower away.
Though I find it funny you taking the side with TheDoc who is an openly admitted Mafia member.
So a guilt by association argument. Such simplistic thinking you operate on.
If a person’s argument is sound and they debated reasonably, I will recognize such. I might even leave that person a positive regardless of their past history.
QUOTE
If you want to have debate and discussion fine, whining and recriminations are uninteresting.
You mean like your censoring of posts you cannot face?
Or would that be you accusations of guilt by association?
And exactly how can one have a debate with you when you so easily make unsubstantiated comments and claims and then seek to distance yourself of those claims when you fail to support them?
Or worse would be your excuses for taking action you claim are not acceptable?
Again deadbeat, your own actions betray your claims.
deadbeat
2nd June 2008 - 03:03 AM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 02:06 AM)
Only if you take any objection to your hollow claims and juvenile actions as me loathing you. But you have a track record of justifying all manners of actions and claims.
I’m sure you could make up or spin whatever you needed. Citing the lack of character in your actions is not the same as me declaring that I despise, loath or am disgusted by you.
So I was right. You cannot go back even a few pages to check what exactly the topic was or what you were arguing.
How about we just address your posting of claims you cannot back up of a personal nature of those you debate against.
Even when the personal claims you make are shown to be erroneous, you seek to justify them and excuse yourself from following or adhering to any standards.
Excited or aggravated? You see emotional content where none is included by my intent.
You only call it irrelevant after you have been shown to have posted yet another erroneous and ignorant personal claim of those you seem to have issues with.
And as far as citing anything for discussion, you have got to be joking.
I have on several occasions quoted your claims directly and linked to your own posts and you ignored them.
And on top of that, you cannot make such claims, personal or otherwise, as when shown to be erroneous simply dismiss them and cower away.
So a guilt by association argument. Such simplistic thinking you operate on.
If a person’s argument is sound and they debated reasonably, I will recognize such. I might even leave that person a positive regardless of their past history.
You mean like your censoring of posts you cannot face?
Or would that be you accusations of guilt by association?
And exactly how can one have a debate with you when you so easily make unsubstantiated comments and claims and then seek to distance yourself of those claims when you fail to support them?
Or worse would be your excuses for taking action you claim are not acceptable?
Again deadbeat, your own actions betray your claims.
And here again
As usual
You dance around peripheral unimportant issues
to avoid real debate or discussion
GeneSplicer
2nd June 2008 - 03:40 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+Jun 1 2008, 11:03 PM)
And here again
As usual
You dance around peripheral unimportant issues
to avoid real debate or discussion
You mean the very real fact that you made an erroneous claim bout me?
You mean the very real fact that such was a personal comment about me and an ad hominem?
You mean the fact that again you cannot go back even a few pages?
But I’m sure the “audience” you seem to seek to play up to will understand.
Continue to cower away or cop-out.
Again, your reputation as it were.
And then there is your odd claim that challenging your claims is distain with nothing to back up your claims of such but spin of what I have posted.
TheDoc
2nd June 2008 - 03:41 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+Jun 2 2008, 03:03 AM)
And here again
As usual
You dance around peripheral unimportant issues
to avoid real debate or discussion
And here again
As usual
You dance around all issues
to avoid real debate or discussion
deadbeat
2nd June 2008 - 07:57 AM
So let us examine what you are ranting about yet again...
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 03:40 AM)
You mean the very real fact that you made an erroneous claim bout me?
That you are NOT a member of the Forum Mafia (I said you were in error)
I also implied perhaps that you participated in the Mafia Negfest, which, if I did (I really am not going to look back) I apologize for, as I have said here and just prior, you DID NOT do that.
Your ad hominem and continued silly outrage about these points even after I admit error and apologize is just ridiculous.
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 03:40 AM)
You mean the very real fact that such was a personal comment about me and an ad hominem?
Mea culpa, fine, Guilty as charged, can we move ON now?
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 03:40 AM)
You mean the fact that again you cannot go back even a few pages?
No I just point to the fact that you and others post endless generic rantings and silly carryings on, so that the point becomes lost, EXACTLY because you go on FOREVER about FORUM MAFIA MEMBERSHIP, and FEEDBACK NEGGING long after correction is accepted and apologies tendered, just because for once you were right.
But you avoid the meatier discussion because you were getting your rear handed to you neatly sliced.
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 03:40 AM)
But I’m sure the “audience” you seem to seek to play up to will understand.
Continue to cower away or cop-out.
Again, your reputation as it were.
And then there is your odd claim that challenging your claims is distain with nothing to back up your claims of such but spin of what I have posted.
Right.
I demonstrated the definition and examples, that anyone with a 7th grade reading level could see were descriptive, appropriate and correct.
I will not answer further of your rantings until you actually make a pioint or an argument, it is a waste of my time and unnecessary frustration.
Like grandpa always told me.
"Best not to wrestle with a Pig in the Mud. You both get dirty, the Pig Likes it, and usually wins due to more experience."
GeneSplicer
2nd June 2008 - 02:09 PM
QUOTE (Deadbeat+)
That you are NOT a member of the Forum Mafia (I said you were in error)
I also implied perhaps that you participated in the Mafia Negfest, which, if I did (I really am not going to look back) I apologize for, as I have said here and just prior, you DID NOT do that.
Only after being challenged on making such an erroneous personal claim about me and after you tried to justify your making such and ignorant claim by saying that my actions were that of a member of the FM.
And least we forget your recent attempt at a guilt by association claim regarding me arguing “on the side of” and FM member.
QUOTE
Your ad hominem and continued silly outrage about these points even after I admit error and apologize is just ridiculous.
What ad hominem? The topic of negative feedback was one you yourself raised.
And again, you admitted error only after called on it and even then you have continued to try to justify your actions.
And that also doesn’t even go to address posts you have ignored or replied with a juvenile comment.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Your ad hominem and continued silly outrage about these points even after I admit error and apologize is just ridiculous. |
What ad hominem? The topic of negative feedback was one you yourself raised.
And again, you admitted error only after called on it and even then you have continued to try to justify your actions.
And that also doesn’t even go to address posts you have ignored or replied with a juvenile comment.
Mea culpa, fine, Guilty as charged, can we move ON now?
Sure as long as you also drop the attempts at justifying your posts.
QUOTE
No I just point to the fact that you and others post endless generic rantings and silly carryings on, so that the point becomes lost, EXACTLY because you go on FOREVER about FORUM MAFIA MEMBERSHIP, and FEEDBACK NEGGING long after correction is accepted and apologies tendered, just because for once you were right.
Intellectually dishonest considering that this comment of mine covers more than just your resent personal comments about me.
It speaks to your cited habit of not being able to got back even one page in threads to address questions.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| No I just point to the fact that you and others post endless generic rantings and silly carryings on, so that the point becomes lost, EXACTLY because you go on FOREVER about FORUM MAFIA MEMBERSHIP, and FEEDBACK NEGGING long after correction is accepted and apologies tendered, just because for once you were right. |
Intellectually dishonest considering that this comment of mine covers more than just your resent personal comments about me.
It speaks to your cited habit of not being able to got back even one page in threads to address questions.
But you avoid the meatier discussion because you were getting your rear handed to you neatly sliced.
You keep making claims such as this but when you cannot back up your claims, you seek to change the topic or adopt the rather odd debating stance of playing to the audience as it were.
You can start with your unsubstantiated claim that all laws originated form religion or that marriage was created and owned by religion and you have yet to adequately defend either let alone hand anyone their posterior.
QUOTE
Right.
I demonstrated the definition and examples, that anyone with a 7th grade reading level could see were descriptive, appropriate and correct.
Again, only by assuming or distorting what I have posted. You assume hatred or loathing due to the fact hat I and others simply challenge your unsubstantiated claims.
You also would need to assume or interject a sizable emotional content into my posts to see such a quality to them. That speaks more about you and your view of others than my posts.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
Right.
I demonstrated the definition and examples, that anyone with a 7th grade reading level could see were descriptive, appropriate and correct. |
Again, only by assuming or distorting what I have posted. You assume hatred or loathing due to the fact hat I and others simply challenge your unsubstantiated claims.
You also would need to assume or interject a sizable emotional content into my posts to see such a quality to them. That speaks more about you and your view of others than my posts.
I will not answer further of your rantings until you actually make a pioint or an argument, it is a waste of my time and unnecessary frustration.
Yes, parrot the same claim over and over as you cower away from another debate with a series of cop-out excuses.
At least you did not resort to your juvenile censoring of my posts and include a juvenile and flippant reply.
And what good would it do to cite points I have already raised that you ignored the first time? Again, I could link to them, but you would just ignore the links again.
QUOTE
Like grandpa always told me.
"Best not to wrestle with a Pig in the Mud. You both get dirty, the Pig Likes it, and usually wins due to more experience."
Another ad hominem. Transparent addition to the end of that saying your “grandpa” supposedly told you.
Again, too bad your claimed standards and morals are not reflected in your actions.
So what is your next cop-out or excuse?
deadbeat
3rd June 2008 - 03:43 AM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 2 2008, 02:09 PM)
You can start with your unsubstantiated claim that all laws originated form religion or that marriage was created and owned by religion and you have yet to adequately defend either let alone hand anyone their posterior.
Wow, actually snuck ONE real sentence in an entire 12 inches of haughty ranting.
So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise.
For this argument, you suggested several governments and legal systems, and it was demonstrated that in every example the government was intertwined and in many case WAS the religion. you could not find a single plausible example.
And my other assertion was that Marriage is an idea and concept that has been embodied in and reflective of religion.
The very idea and social concept is and always HAS been a religious concept. You were unable to provide a single occurrence of "marriage" that was not descended from and described by a religion.
Even your "handfasting" was easily demonstrated to be descended from polytheistic paganism, which, is religion.
And this is why you have avoided direct argument, because you find yourself outmatched.
vkamath
3rd June 2008 - 04:28 AM
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise.
Are all subjective thoughts covered under your definition of Religion?
With your extra wide definition of religion, (which probably also covers cats digging a hole in the sand to poop) everything comes from religion. It doesn't prove anything.
deadbeat
3rd June 2008 - 05:33 AM
QUOTE (vkamath+Jun 3 2008, 04:28 AM)
QUOTE (deadbeat+)
So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise.
Are all subjective thoughts covered under your definition of Religion?
With your extra wide definition of religion, (which probably also covers cats digging a hole in the sand to poop) everything comes from religion. It doesn't prove anything.
hehe oh yeah.
You see YOUR definition of religion is self-serving and extremely narrow.
If you want to describe a set that consists of all things you consider to be "religion" then what is your definition?
You make fun of mine because it includes all possible religions, which you imply but do not really mean with YOUR definition. If I am wrong, then tell me yours.
Grumpy
3rd June 2008 - 01:14 PM
deadbeat
QUOTE
Wow, actually snuck ONE real sentence in an entire 12 inches of haughty ranting.
So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise.
For this argument, you suggested several governments and legal systems, and it was demonstrated that in every example the government was intertwined and in many case WAS the religion. you could not find a single plausible example.
And my other assertion was that Marriage is an idea and concept that has been embodied in and reflective of religion.
The very idea and social concept is and always HAS been a religious concept. You were unable to provide a single occurrence of "marriage" that was not descended from and described by a religion.
Even your "handfasting" was easily demonstrated to be descended from polytheistic paganism, which, is religion.
And this is why you have avoided direct argument, because you find yourself outmatched.
You have SAID all these bogus ideas, you have yet to provide any convincing evidence of each ideas veracity, almost to a man/woman they reject your interpretations of the facts because it just don't fit.
Fear of the unknown and trying to understand reality breeds superstitious belief, in the absence of accurate observation and reasoned thought, so early man created stories about The Great Cosmic Big Brother to comfort him and explain the (then) unexplainable. Man created God, not the other way around.
Grumpy
GeneSplicer
3rd June 2008 - 02:26 PM
QUOTE (Deadbeat+)
Wow, actually snuck ONE real sentence in an entire 12 inches of haughty ranting.
In other words, you have los the argument over your erroneous claims about me and you related back peddling, excuses and justifications for those claims, so you will cop-out and move on.
QUOTE
So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise.
And again DB, you have to be reminded that this is not how debated function. You made theses claims therefore is fall upon you to back them up. You have failed to do so.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So, My assertion is falsifiable, that all governments and laws came from religion. You were unable to demonstrate otherwise. |
And again DB, you have to be reminded that this is not how debated function. You made theses claims therefore is fall upon you to back them up. You have failed to do so.
For this argument, you suggested several governments and legal systems, and it was demonstrated that in every example the government was intertwined and in many case WAS the religion.
And that is an outright lie on your part. Your broad and untenable claim that all laws originated form religion is just that; untenable.
You failed to show where the laws of the Greeks or Romans originated from religion. You were unable to show what god or gods in their polytheistic religion(s) inspired or created what laws.
You simply take the simplistic stance that is any religion existed then it was the source for their laws.
QUOTE
you could not find a single plausible example.
Again, not my job to support your claims. Again, you claimed all laws originated form religion. If this is true, then you could start with the Greeks, Roman or any other civilizations and show where their laws were dictated or originated form there religion and the respective and related god or gods.
And since you cannot actually support this untenable claim, you resort to the intellectually dishonest tactic fo claiming that the presence of any religion proves your point.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| you could not find a single plausible example. |
Again, not my job to support your claims. Again, you claimed all laws originated form religion. If this is true, then you could start with the Greeks, Roman or any other civilizations and show where their laws were dictated or originated form there religion and the respective and related god or gods.
And since you cannot actually support this untenable claim, you resort to the intellectually dishonest tactic fo claiming that the presence of any religion proves your point.
And my other assertion was that Marriage is an idea and concept that has been embodied in and reflective of religion.
You can try to change your claims now all you want, but you argued that marriage was the creation of religion. And that was yet another claim you were unable to support with anything other than your claims.
QUOTE
The very idea and social concept is and always HAS been a religious concept.
And again, as it was stated before, such a social concept predates the creation your religion or any religion since such pair bonding is a fact of our nature and other animals.
While it is true that like many facets of our society, religion took over the control of marriage, it does not own it nor created it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| The very idea and social concept is and always HAS been a religious concept. |
And again, as it was stated before, such a social concept predates the creation your religion or any religion since such pair bonding is a fact of our nature and other animals.
While it is true that like many facets of our society, religion took over the control of marriage, it does not own it nor created it.
You were unable to provide a single occurrence of "marriage" that was not descended from and described by a religion.
Again, not my job to support your claim. You need to show that pair bonding did not take place until religion created it.
And you again resort to intellectually dishonest maneuvering. In the argument, I have stated pair bonding of which marriage is and example of. You tried to be pedantic and demand examples of marriage by name. Poor form on your part.
QUOTE
Even your "handfasting" was easily demonstrated to be descended from polytheistic paganism, which, is religion.
And again, you are confusing just who you debated what about.
If you cannot even keep such simple information straight, then how is anyone to expect you to keep more important information straight?
And again, your job to show that no such pair bonding occurred until religion created it.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Even your "handfasting" was easily demonstrated to be descended from polytheistic paganism, which, is religion. |
And again, you are confusing just who you debated what about.
If you cannot even keep such simple information straight, then how is anyone to expect you to keep more important information straight?
And again, your job to show that no such pair bonding occurred until religion created it.
And this is why you have avoided direct argument, because you find yourself outmatched.
Again, a bold faced lie. I have not backed away from any debate with you while you have posted over and over one cop-out excuse after another and have resorted to intellectually dishonest replies, pedantic maneuvering and juvenile replies.
I challenged you on both of your claims that all laws originated form religion and that marriage or similar pair bonding did not take place until religion created it.
And I am far from alone in those endeavors.
So unless you have proof to back up your untenable claims, your arguments are still just ones of your hollow opinions and/or ones of your blind theistic faith.
While it is perfectly fine for you to have such personal opinions, proclaiming such personal opinions to be fact will be challenged especially when you are unable to back up those opinions with anything approaching fact or even a rationale and reasoned argument.
But I seem to recall that you look down upon the use of reason. I wonder why?
GeneSplicer
3rd June 2008 - 02:32 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+Jun 3 2008, 01:33 AM)
hehe oh yeah.
You see YOUR definition of religion is self-serving and extremely narrow.
If you want to describe a set that consists of all things you consider to be "religion" then what is your definition?
You make fun of mine because it includes all possible religions, which you imply but do not really mean with YOUR definition. If I am wrong, then tell me yours.
All possible definitions or religions such as political parties and glee clubs you mean?
Odd but I seriously doubt that any rational or reasonable person would consider political parties and glees clubs religions as you do using your “special” definition.
“Our” definition is not narrow as you erroneously claim but it is not as ridiculously broad and laughably inclusive as yours as to include political parties as religions.
vkamath
3rd June 2008 - 07:31 PM
QUOTE (deadbeat+Jun 3 2008, 05:33 AM)
hehe oh yeah.
You see YOUR definition of religion is self-serving and extremely narrow.
If you want to describe a set that consists of all things you consider to be "religion" then what is your definition?
You make fun of mine because it includes all possible religions, which you imply but do not really mean with YOUR definition. If I am wrong, then tell me yours.
I think the following definition is good enough
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/religion#EnglishQUOTE (wiki+)
1) A system of beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body.
*He couldn’t abide by any religion that didn’t allow for wrongdoers to be punished after death.
2) A number of customs and rituals associated with such beliefs.
*When it comes to religion, she doesn’t believe, but she loves to attend the ceremonies.
3) Anything that involves the association of people in a manner resembling a religious institution or cult.
*At this point, Star Trek has really become a religion.
4) Any system or institution which one engages with in order to foster a sense of meaning or relevance in relation to something greater than oneself.
When I speak of religion I am referring to definition number 1.
In this context you would have to show that Government and Laws are derived from a supernatural entity. Can you prove that?
deadbeat
3rd June 2008 - 11:51 PM
QUOTE (vkamath+Jun 3 2008, 07:31 PM)
I think the following definition is good enough
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/religion#EnglishQUOTE (wiki+)
1) A system of beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body.
*He couldn’t abide by any religion that didn’t allow for wrongdoers to be punished after death.
2) A number of customs and rituals associated with such beliefs.
*When it comes to religion, she doesn’t believe, but she loves to attend the ceremonies.
3) Anything that involves the association of people in a manner resembling a religious institution or cult.
*At this point, Star Trek has really become a religion.
4) Any system or institution which one engages with in order to foster a sense of meaning or relevance in relation to something greater than oneself.
When I speak of religion I am referring to definition number 1.
In this context you would have to show that Government and Laws are derived from a supernatural entity. Can you prove that?
Of course you would.
But you see, the three conditions of the first choice are merely the defining characteristics of Judeo-christian tradition (which includes Islam by the way).
There are many other religions that do not HAVE a god, or any of those characteristics you mention. Early Judaism had no concept of Heaven or Hell, of the Soul or life after death, only monotheism.
I would point you to the usage notes directly below your quote in the link.
QUOTE
Generally speaking, certain systems of belief that do not involve the existence of one or more deities, such as Buddhism, can be considered a religion, though some people prefer a stricter definition that excludes the possibility of a non-theistic religion. Others are in favor of a very general definition of religion: that any belief, such as atheism, or system of beliefs, such as science, is a kind of religion or part of a religion. In language, such uses are generally considered humorous (highly dependent on context.)
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