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Questor
I have noticed a trend in a lot of these posts pertaining to religion. Allow me to state that, in a religious discussion, much like any other discussion, there are multiple points of view. That being said, the purpose of a discussion is just that-to discuss. The problem with trying to maintain a civil, productive dialog in a Theology debate is that too many people, much like anywhere else, want to enter these forums with an agenda outside of simple debate.

Whether you believe in a god or not, you should not feel as though you need to propagandize a proper discussion by vehemently forcing your point of view on others and denouncing those who oppose. It accomplishes nothing and destroys a potentially fascinating debate.

Please, unless you are here to be civil and unassuming, and respectful of others' beliefs, don't waste the time of those who are above this childish behavior.

Thank you.

-Q
kaneda
This is a debating board and anyone who brings up a subject risks it being shown wrong. You should not worry about atheists here, but so called christians like dad1 who by his total ignorance ridicules religion.
Questor
QUOTE
This is a debating board and anyone who brings up a subject risks it being shown wrong.


hello kaneda,

I agree, but one should have the opportunity to defend oneself in an intelligent way without being barraged by sub-par negativity.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
This is a debating board and anyone who brings up a subject risks it being shown wrong.


hello kaneda,

I agree, but one should have the opportunity to defend oneself in an intelligent way without being barraged by sub-par negativity.

You should not worry about atheists here, but so called christians like dad1 who by his total ignorance ridicules religion.


You misunderstand, or perhaps I do. This post was not aimed at atheists, or christians, or buddhists, or muslims...you get the picture. It was aimed at those of the aforementioned faiths or lack thereof, who cannot have a meaningful conversation without propaganda or malice. Both defeat the purpose of debating.

-Q
gmilam
So, do you propose people have to take an IQ or "civility" test before they be allowed to join?

It is a public forum.
Questor
QUOTE
So, do you propose people have to take an IQ or "civility" test before they be allowed to join?


No, not at all. Look, this post is not an attack on anyone, and I believe that I've done a fair job of staying as objective as possible. Being someone of undefined faith, I have no bias. I also understand that many people feel very strongly about their own faiths. There is a difference, though, between having a discussion in defense of that view and preaching or condemning. IQ has nothing to do with a religious discussion. I would love to see a conversation about Theology between two 7 year olds, mainly because it would still be pure. I am merely stating that perhaps a little respect would be a welcome change. If you noticed, I did say please. That suggests that I was asking, not demanding. The individual still has the choice, as it should be.



QUOTE (->
QUOTE
So, do you propose people have to take an IQ or "civility" test before they be allowed to join?


No, not at all. Look, this post is not an attack on anyone, and I believe that I've done a fair job of staying as objective as possible. Being someone of undefined faith, I have no bias. I also understand that many people feel very strongly about their own faiths. There is a difference, though, between having a discussion in defense of that view and preaching or condemning. IQ has nothing to do with a religious discussion. I would love to see a conversation about Theology between two 7 year olds, mainly because it would still be pure. I am merely stating that perhaps a little respect would be a welcome change. If you noticed, I did say please. That suggests that I was asking, not demanding. The individual still has the choice, as it should be.



It is a public forum.


QUOTE
This is a debating board


Yes, you are both correct. I'm merely making an observation. On a public forum.

Enjoy your day. smile.gif

-Q
gmilam
If it's any consolation I agree with you.

But we are talking about some very emotional subjects and to some people this is seen as an attack of their entire world view. And therefore, they tend to see a difference of opinion as a personal affront.

Plus a lot pf people read emotion that is not really there into another person's posts.

And some people have ideas that just seem totally ludicrous to others. It can be very difficult to bite your tongue and not throw out a glib or sarcastic comment. I am quite guilty of this myself. I can't count the times I have typed something and then clicked the "back" button rather than posting it... Just to get it out of my system. (Some people just seem to inspire ridicule.)

If you join in, it's best to have a thick skin.

Peace to all. wink.gif
Questor
QUOTE
It can be very difficult to bite your tongue and not throw out a glib or sarcastic comment. I am quite guilty of this myself.


Well stated, gmilam. I am as well, at times. It doesn't seem to provoke the negative response when applied to other subjects, though. Which is why I feel that a bit of discretion should be applied to this subject, more than most others, because of the emotional ramifications of Theology.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
It can be very difficult to bite your tongue and not throw out a glib or sarcastic comment. I am quite guilty of this myself.


Well stated, gmilam. I am as well, at times. It doesn't seem to provoke the negative response when applied to other subjects, though. Which is why I feel that a bit of discretion should be applied to this subject, more than most others, because of the emotional ramifications of Theology.

If you join in, it's best to have a thick skin.


Very true. I feel as though I am being misunderstood as someone who is upset about this, though. Not upset, just concerned.

happy.gif

-Q
dakfe09
I too find the wanton attribution of events to miracles very annoying. It smacks of a rush to ignore reality.


QUOTE
When I was a kid I used to pray to God for a bike. Then I realised God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike, and prayed to God for forgiveness. (Emo Phillips)



huh.gif
buttershug
QUOTE (Questor+Jan 6 2007, 12:37 AM)
I have noticed a trend in a lot of these posts pertaining to religion. Allow me to state that, in a religious discussion, much like any other discussion, there are multiple points of view.
Thank you.

-Q

Do you agree that some are demonstrably wrong?
Physfan
QUOTE
Being someone of undefined faith, I have no bias.
Yes, you do! You either don't say it or don't realise that you do. Any one "of faith" has abrogated logic and any claim to be objective.

Physfan
FGG
QUOTE (Physfan+Sep 6 2009, 04:46 AM)
Yes, you do! You either don't say it or don't realise that you do. Any one "of faith" has abrogated logic and any claim to be objective.

Physfan

That's one of the problems with some "faithful". They think they don't have a biased position (ie. an open mind) because they are willing to ignore scientific facts and consider opposing belief systems based on nothing but vaporous claims that "seem reasonable" to them. This, to them is part of an "unbiased" decision making process. Their (un)bias allows then to ignore facts!

FGG

PS. An opened and un-skeptical mind is likely filled with garbage.
dakfe09
I like the way Dawkins puts it. Its the difference between 'ought and is'..at least for many questions.
MisterBelfry
Dr. Robert Hickson,

will something more complicated come out instead?

Blaming all of christianity is a bit harsh?
Showtopic= 26304<-------------------Closed thread
Hello Dakfe09 and all,

I am not Robert Hickson. I would never underline so much.

MrB.
This be Dr. Hickson:
-------------------->
More surprisingly, since he was a priest, “Teilhard accepted the Darwinian theory of evolution” (69), and this unmistakably heterodox and equivocal Jesuit priest dared to go even further: “He argued that biological evolution had been nothing more than [good old reductionism!] God’s first step in an infinitely [sic] greater design” (69--my emphasis added).[33]

But, did this imply, for example, that the created finite cosmos (intelligible and knowable, but abidingly unfathomable) was now, or potentially, infinite? And, is that not a form of evolutionary pantheism? That is to say, a dubiously “christianized” form of dialectical Hegelianism?

33. For those who wish to read more about this hypothesis, “his great work, The Phenomenon of Man” (71) is still in print, although “his great masterwork” (71) by a man with “a certain shady eminence” (71) had already, for years, circulated “sub rosa, sotto voce, in a Jesuit samizdat” (71), say Wolfe. It was a kind of “forbidden fruit”, an alluring “underground classic”.

Wolfe then valuably traces how the Canadian professor, Marshal McLuhan, made a further “synthesis of the ideas of two men” (72): Teilhard de Chardin; and Harold Innis, “the economic historian” and McLuhan’s “fellow Canadian” (72). <-------------------


This be MrB. reading from page 71{following Hickson's footnote 33 above}:
-------------------->
"No one paid closer attention tho this gusher of Teilhardiana than a forty-four-year-old St. Michael's teaching fellow[University of Toronto] named Marshall McLuhan, who taught English literature." Notice that "Marshall" is spelled with two ls in our unsigned printed copy.

This is Hickson on Tom Wolfe,

"Moreover, Wolfe’s vivid language and modulations of tone, as well as his insights and admirable integrity, should be slowly imbibed, savored, not just rapidly read."

And if Soundhertz (and others are) is still able to follow along, with this McLuhanism of technology and not so much science,

page 73:

"McLuhan's "global village" was nothing other than Teilhard's "noösphere," but the Church had declared Teilhard's work heterodox, and McLuhan was not merely a Roman Catholic, he was a convert. He had been raised as a Baptist...

I don't have the slightest doubt that what fascinated him about television was the possibility it might help make real Teihard's dream of the Christian unity of all souls on earth."

[Moderator: Suspended 3 days for copy-and-pasting even though he knows the formatting is ludicrous when LINKING with at least one persuasive paragraph in favor of following the link in the standard.]
AlexG
Does anything that Belfry posts make any friggin sense at all?
soundhertz
It's called Hereiophobia.
Frothy
As I've read your post, I was reminded of this Scripture:

"It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear."
Isa 65:26

Too often we are too busy doing, that we forget to take time to observe what God is doing.
rpenner
That's why we pay the paparazzi.
Physfan
QUOTE
Too often we are too busy doing, that we forget to take time to observe what God is doing.
Show us one thing that can be proven to have been done by your brand of god; remember, the condition is "proven".

Physfan
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