I think it was a very bad idea to start using plastic bottles voraciously. Most plastic bottles aren't (to my knowledge) biodegradable and they are used like there is some sort of race to use as many per person as possible. I read that over 60,000,000 are used each day in America alone. That is an extreme amount of non biodegradable waste. I know that there have been moves towards bioplastic lately but I'm not totally up to speed on the topic. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject or and relevant information? Is making and using the bottles in such volume anything other than us shooting ourselves in the foot?
Grüss Dich!
Plastics are biodegradable. A bag loses its resistance within year under sunlight. A bottle degrades within one or two decades, which is as short as a tree.
Using and burying plastics is a mean of storing carbon that won't inject CO2 in the atmosphere. The most frequent plastics (PE, PP...) are made from ethylene which is a by-product of cracking heavy crude oil to extract more light gasoline of it. If the industry can't sell plastics from this ethylene, it gets burnt.
Or at least, make electricity and heat from the paper, plastic and vegetals, and produce some new one from CO2-absorbing trees and byproduct ethylene, instead of recycling them and burning extra oil to make electricity.
I don't mind burying non biodegradable waste. Sure, they make a big volume and cost a little bit to bury, but typically plastics, glass, paper, aluminium and steel are not toxic. Though they are the ones recycled - because this brings money, not because of toxicity.
I'm fundamentally against waste sorting by the consumer. If the industry has an economical interest in our waste, it will build machines to sort the waste. Investing unpaid consumer's worktime in sorting prevents the industry from making the economically sound steps. Unpaid worktime prevents capitalism from bringing advantages.
In not few German cities, inhabitants pay extra taxes to have several bins, offer their time to sort the waste to the bins, which are then collected separately at higher costs, and then all the waste is put back together and sorted by machines - if it is sorted. But no mayor is willing to tell it.
Plastics are biodegradable. A bag loses its resistance within year under sunlight. A bottle degrades within one or two decades, which is as short as a tree.
Using and burying plastics is a mean of storing carbon that won't inject CO2 in the atmosphere. The most frequent plastics (PE, PP...) are made from ethylene which is a by-product of cracking heavy crude oil to extract more light gasoline of it. If the industry can't sell plastics from this ethylene, it gets burnt.
Or at least, make electricity and heat from the paper, plastic and vegetals, and produce some new one from CO2-absorbing trees and byproduct ethylene, instead of recycling them and burning extra oil to make electricity.
I don't mind burying non biodegradable waste. Sure, they make a big volume and cost a little bit to bury, but typically plastics, glass, paper, aluminium and steel are not toxic. Though they are the ones recycled - because this brings money, not because of toxicity.
I'm fundamentally against waste sorting by the consumer. If the industry has an economical interest in our waste, it will build machines to sort the waste. Investing unpaid consumer's worktime in sorting prevents the industry from making the economically sound steps. Unpaid worktime prevents capitalism from bringing advantages.
In not few German cities, inhabitants pay extra taxes to have several bins, offer their time to sort the waste to the bins, which are then collected separately at higher costs, and then all the waste is put back together and sorted by machines - if it is sorted. But no mayor is willing to tell it.
QUOTE (Krieger der Wahrheit+Aug 9 2008, 11:35 PM)
Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject or and relevant information? Is making and using the bottles in such volume anything other than us shooting ourselves in the foot?
As I have often pointed out, plastic products often contain synthetic female hormones. The hard plastic bottles often contain bisphenol-a, the soft plastic bottles often contain phthalates. These chemicals, as with many endocrine disrupting pesticides, are creating a Femdom culture. These chemicals are changing laws and ways, and the natural order.
These works are born from the tree of good and evil. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? And whom shall the Lord teach and make to understand doctrine, they that are drawn from the breast and given of plastic?
Much temptation has been in the world because an angel went down from heaven and blended his white spirit with a purple spirit. That sorcery and blending of spirit created a golden light which was filled up with thought and which told the people they were naked, and put vanity in their hearts. In that union of spirit the white light is constantly giving of his energy to support the dominant purple spirit.
While my spirit was lost in that golden fog I still had the love of my heart, and rememberance of the perfection which was in the beginning. These are the days when the Lord reaches down his hand to help me and the whole world climb out of the pit. For a long while the Lord put it in his heart to give the world to the golden light, which is the purple and white, but now is the time for the light of God and the Lamb to overflow the world.
Because of this the day is coming when there will never be any more folly for all the people will know the truth about God, and the nature of heaven and hell. For a long while I stood on the wing of a Temple and taught my friends about plastic female hormones, and silkened wombs, and the electrified Femdom world. That was a man pouring out his heart in search of his destiny, for I could see that this world was overcome by darkness.
Heal first the spirit of the people and then the world can be healed as well. Teach the story of the purple and white that the people might put the truth in their hearts and know the ways of spirit. In the beginning it was perfect and it can be perfect again.
I am going to help the people find their way home to the Lord, for what is more powerful than love. When the heart of a person can overcome the purple burden upon their spirit they can find their way home to the light of the Lord. I have spoken with much wrath against electricity, plastic, and vanity because I know I have but a short time to help the people understand truth.
For years I did teach my friends about the spirit of life on the earth, and now I stand to teach my friends about the spirit of life in heaven. It has been a long and painful journey but the Lord has helped me build a bridge back to paradise that all those who are lost may be found. His neverending love does come to rescue those who have fallen and call them home again. His arms are wide open and he helps me that I might help the people.
To have a sense of humor about it all, you might say that this is Santa Claus announcing his retirement.
As I have often pointed out, plastic products often contain synthetic female hormones. The hard plastic bottles often contain bisphenol-a, the soft plastic bottles often contain phthalates. These chemicals, as with many endocrine disrupting pesticides, are creating a Femdom culture. These chemicals are changing laws and ways, and the natural order.
These works are born from the tree of good and evil. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? And whom shall the Lord teach and make to understand doctrine, they that are drawn from the breast and given of plastic?
Much temptation has been in the world because an angel went down from heaven and blended his white spirit with a purple spirit. That sorcery and blending of spirit created a golden light which was filled up with thought and which told the people they were naked, and put vanity in their hearts. In that union of spirit the white light is constantly giving of his energy to support the dominant purple spirit.
While my spirit was lost in that golden fog I still had the love of my heart, and rememberance of the perfection which was in the beginning. These are the days when the Lord reaches down his hand to help me and the whole world climb out of the pit. For a long while the Lord put it in his heart to give the world to the golden light, which is the purple and white, but now is the time for the light of God and the Lamb to overflow the world.
Because of this the day is coming when there will never be any more folly for all the people will know the truth about God, and the nature of heaven and hell. For a long while I stood on the wing of a Temple and taught my friends about plastic female hormones, and silkened wombs, and the electrified Femdom world. That was a man pouring out his heart in search of his destiny, for I could see that this world was overcome by darkness.
Heal first the spirit of the people and then the world can be healed as well. Teach the story of the purple and white that the people might put the truth in their hearts and know the ways of spirit. In the beginning it was perfect and it can be perfect again.
I am going to help the people find their way home to the Lord, for what is more powerful than love. When the heart of a person can overcome the purple burden upon their spirit they can find their way home to the light of the Lord. I have spoken with much wrath against electricity, plastic, and vanity because I know I have but a short time to help the people understand truth.
For years I did teach my friends about the spirit of life on the earth, and now I stand to teach my friends about the spirit of life in heaven. It has been a long and painful journey but the Lord has helped me build a bridge back to paradise that all those who are lost may be found. His neverending love does come to rescue those who have fallen and call them home again. His arms are wide open and he helps me that I might help the people.
To have a sense of humor about it all, you might say that this is Santa Claus announcing his retirement.
QUOTE (templeghost+Aug 10 2008, 09:46 AM)
These chemicals, as with many endocrine disrupting pesticides, are creating a Femdom culture. These chemicals are changing laws and ways, and the natural order.
Yes, damn that infernal women's liberation movement and its defiance of laws and ways, and the natural order as written in scripture:
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Yes, damn that infernal women's liberation movement and its defiance of laws and ways, and the natural order as written in scripture:
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
QUOTE (barakn+Aug 11 2008, 04:12 AM)
Yes, damn that infernal women's liberation movement and its defiance of laws and ways...
For the most part, I am speaking to the nature of alternative cultures. I would say that there has been a reason for it all. The dominant angels are given power by the modern electric and plastic world. They take of the naughty white spirits and bind them by hand and foot. In electric cities overcome with magnetic fires they rule over those who stand at the left hand of the Lord. By these mechanisms are the sinners delivered into a life of 'fantasy' punishment.
I'm making a list and checking it twice, gonna find out who's been naughty or nice!
For the most part, I am speaking to the nature of alternative cultures. I would say that there has been a reason for it all. The dominant angels are given power by the modern electric and plastic world. They take of the naughty white spirits and bind them by hand and foot. In electric cities overcome with magnetic fires they rule over those who stand at the left hand of the Lord. By these mechanisms are the sinners delivered into a life of 'fantasy' punishment.
I'm making a list and checking it twice, gonna find out who's been naughty or nice!
QUOTE (Krieger der Wahrheit+Aug 9 2008, 11:35 PM)
I think it was a very bad idea to start using plastic bottles voraciously. Most plastic bottles aren't (to my knowledge) biodegradable and they are used like there is some sort of race to use as many per person as possible. I read that over 60,000,000 are used each day in America alone. That is an extreme amount of non biodegradable waste. I know that there have been moves towards bioplastic lately but I'm not totally up to speed on the topic. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject or and relevant information? Is making and using the bottles in such volume anything other than us shooting ourselves in the foot?
We are conditioned to equate disposability with convenience. What disposable really equates to, is profit for manufacturers. The bottled water obsession is quite silly when you examine the activity associated with it. Walk into any gym, and everyone's got a bottle of water. A gym, an institution devoted to non-productive labor, and no one seems to be able to take the minimal effort to fill a reusable container with healthy tap water, how ironic.
So much waste generated by disposable packaging could be eliminated using reusable containers. Beverages and foods could be purchased by individuals in bulk reusable containers, just as commercial users do. Standardized reusable packaging for other consumer goods is another waste reducing/resource saving solution. With packaging being a $450 billion a year industry, resistance to any significant change in policy in this area will be huge. Hopefully individuals will recognize the benefits of reusables, and change their habits accordingly.
pp
So much waste generated by disposable packaging could be eliminated using reusable containers. Beverages and foods could be purchased by individuals in bulk reusable containers, just as commercial users do. Standardized reusable packaging for other consumer goods is another waste reducing/resource saving solution. With packaging being a $450 billion a year industry, resistance to any significant change in policy in this area will be huge. Hopefully individuals will recognize the benefits of reusables, and change their habits accordingly.
pp
This plastic stores ethylene and propylene in a solid, instead of burning these by-products of oil cracking. To reduce CO2 emissions, use more plastics, and either bury them once used, or burn them to produce useful heat instead of burning coal.
So:
- Using less plastic bottles is bad for the environment
- Recycling plastics is bad for the environment
So:
- Using less plastic bottles is bad for the environment
- Recycling plastics is bad for the environment
QUOTE (Enthalpy+Oct 24 2008, 11:27 PM)
This plastic stores ethylene and propylene in a solid, instead of burning these by-products of oil cracking. To reduce CO2 emissions, use more plastics, and either bury them once used, or burn them to produce useful heat instead of burning coal.
So:
- Using less plastic bottles is bad for the environment
- Recycling plastics is bad for the environment
So:
- Using less plastic bottles is bad for the environment
- Recycling plastics is bad for the environment
Burning hydrocarbons is bad for the environment. Using disposables when not necessary is a waste of material, energy, and bad for the environment. Reusable containers reduce the need for disposables. Standardization for production, use, and recovery, makes recycling plastics when necessary, a practical and desirable alternative to disposal.
You didn't understand what I wrote.
QUOTE (Enthalpy+Oct 26 2008, 05:51 PM)
You didn't understand what I wrote.
Correct me if I'm wrong. You are advocating burying waste plastic to sequester the carbon, or burn it in place of petroleum fuels.
That's it.
Because if we don't make bottles of the ethylene, this ethylene gets burnt without any use. It is a by-product when cracking heavy molecules from oil to make lighter gasoline.
So I prefer to sequester it or burn it usefully. One way to do it is make bottles of it and not recycle them.
Ecology isn't that obvious...
Because if we don't make bottles of the ethylene, this ethylene gets burnt without any use. It is a by-product when cracking heavy molecules from oil to make lighter gasoline.
So I prefer to sequester it or burn it usefully. One way to do it is make bottles of it and not recycle them.
Ecology isn't that obvious...
I'm sure if we work on our biodegradable bugs and evolve them they could dissolve and digest whatever plastic or rubber. When looking at pictures of the titanic there are actually technothermic microbes dissolving and eating away the steel from the sunken vessel.
please recycle. it envirmonent is good for. i tell wife no plastic bags over here.
QUOTE (sanwongfu+Jun 21 2009, 11:58 AM)
please recycle. it envirmonent is good for. i tell wife no plastic bags over here.
Why is Soda Stream fun?
So it’s a Friday night and as usual, the entire gang shows up unexpected between their usual 10:30 PM -11:00 PM window. And well, let’s face it, no one feels like rushing over to the convenient store and at this hour. So, as I was doing my weekly shopping last week, I came across a funky product called soda stream. This device turns ordinary water into flavored soda (yep, there’s a Coke flavor too) in seconds. For all of you hosts of unexpected, expected guests, I highly recommend this!
Why is Soda Stream good for the environment?
Trend for the past few years and upcoming years: green. Yep, it’s all around you, and every day leading a green lifestyle seems to be easier. My latest discovery: drinking green! My new soda stream machine allows me to finally let the environment rest from my plastic bottle pollution. Great invention, tastes great, and it’s greeeen!
Why is Soda Stream so easy to use?
My adorable 12-year old decided to invite a few friends over for a fun afternoon by the pool, a few times a week throughout the whole summer. I decided to spring for a soda stream and stuck it outside, next to the pool deck. My son, Dylan says the kids loved making own flavored soda (sometimes even mixed up a few flavors and created their own summer flavor, named it Froogie! Maybe I’ll send the makers a sample..).
Try the link..
www.worldwithoutbottles.com
Why is Soda Stream fun?
So it’s a Friday night and as usual, the entire gang shows up unexpected between their usual 10:30 PM -11:00 PM window. And well, let’s face it, no one feels like rushing over to the convenient store and at this hour. So, as I was doing my weekly shopping last week, I came across a funky product called soda stream. This device turns ordinary water into flavored soda (yep, there’s a Coke flavor too) in seconds. For all of you hosts of unexpected, expected guests, I highly recommend this!
Why is Soda Stream good for the environment?
Trend for the past few years and upcoming years: green. Yep, it’s all around you, and every day leading a green lifestyle seems to be easier. My latest discovery: drinking green! My new soda stream machine allows me to finally let the environment rest from my plastic bottle pollution. Great invention, tastes great, and it’s greeeen!
Why is Soda Stream so easy to use?
My adorable 12-year old decided to invite a few friends over for a fun afternoon by the pool, a few times a week throughout the whole summer. I decided to spring for a soda stream and stuck it outside, next to the pool deck. My son, Dylan says the kids loved making own flavored soda (sometimes even mixed up a few flavors and created their own summer flavor, named it Froogie! Maybe I’ll send the makers a sample..).
Try the link..
www.worldwithoutbottles.com
Plastic Bottles, Glass Bottles, Jars, Tins. Buy by the Case Online at Wholesale Prices Call
QUOTE (barakn+Aug 11 2008, 04:12 AM)
Yes, damn that infernal women's liberation movement and its defiance of laws and ways, and the natural order as written in scripture:
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
A woman who was married by authority of a strict Christian religion, I won't say which one, told me that she was very strictly told that she must obey her husband as long as he is acting in accordance with the will of God.
I told her it sounded like she was supposed to disobey him when he was acting against the will of God - but how would she know?
Be careful how you interpret scripture, because the results can completely pervert the spirit of the theology.
Now, as for the topic of the thread, I think plastic is an advance beyond glass in that it doesn't shatter into sharp fragments and probably uses less energy to produce per bottle than glass bottles. I re-use plastic bottles by refilling them with water. They can also be compressed into plastic beams to build the same things that can be built with wood. Whoever made the point that burning them conserves the fuel of recycling them has an interesting point. I think the point is that you should look at them as a potential resource instead of as a burden. That's what recycling and re-using is all about, imo.
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
A woman who was married by authority of a strict Christian religion, I won't say which one, told me that she was very strictly told that she must obey her husband as long as he is acting in accordance with the will of God.
I told her it sounded like she was supposed to disobey him when he was acting against the will of God - but how would she know?
Be careful how you interpret scripture, because the results can completely pervert the spirit of the theology.
Now, as for the topic of the thread, I think plastic is an advance beyond glass in that it doesn't shatter into sharp fragments and probably uses less energy to produce per bottle than glass bottles. I re-use plastic bottles by refilling them with water. They can also be compressed into plastic beams to build the same things that can be built with wood. Whoever made the point that burning them conserves the fuel of recycling them has an interesting point. I think the point is that you should look at them as a potential resource instead of as a burden. That's what recycling and re-using is all about, imo.
QUOTE (Enthalpy+Oct 28 2008, 04:54 PM)
Because if we don't make bottles of the ethylene, this ethylene gets burnt without any use. It is a by-product when cracking heavy molecules from oil to make lighter gasoline.
So I prefer to sequester it or burn it usefully. One way to do it is make bottles of it and not recycle them.
Ecology isn't that obvious...
It wouldn't be wasted because we use far more ethylene than we get from making gasoline, much of it we get from natural gas, indeed Ethylene is the most produced organic compound in the world.
As far as recycling, what makes ecological sense can also change over time.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010...-waste-disposal
Arthur
So I prefer to sequester it or burn it usefully. One way to do it is make bottles of it and not recycle them.
Ecology isn't that obvious...
It wouldn't be wasted because we use far more ethylene than we get from making gasoline, much of it we get from natural gas, indeed Ethylene is the most produced organic compound in the world.
As far as recycling, what makes ecological sense can also change over time.
QUOTE
WRAP the government's waste and packaging agency, said it had analysed 200 reports covering seven different materials: paper and cardboard, plastics, biopolymers, food, garden cuttings, wood and textiles. The experts then looked at the evidence for seven methods of disposal, including recycling, composting, incineration and landfill, measured by four different criteria: energy use, water use, other resource use, and greenhouse gas emissions.
In more than four out of five cases, recycling was the clear winner, said Keith James, Wrap's environmental policy manager.
But there were "different messages" for different materials, said James.
"For biopolymers, I think the preferable option is recycling, which isn't what people have commonly thought," he said.
"For textiles, there's not very many statistics, but what there is shows reuse is clearly optimal, followed by recycling and then energy recovery.
"For food and garden waste, anaerobic digestion looks preferable; then composting and incineration with energy recovery come out very similar.
"For plastics, we have got strong evidence this time that recycling is the better option, because recycling has improved.
"For wood, recycling looks preferable.
"For paper and cardboard, what the statistics throw out is the importance of quality: the higher the quality, the better it is to recycle, but as you go down to the lower end, energy recovery may be preferable."
The good showing for incineration – preferred for a small number of items and often the next best option after recycling – will be controversial with some environmental campaigners who worry about the pollution from recycling plants, and that incineration becomes an easy option that deters investment in proper recycling.
However, the option of incineration was only preferred when it was using the best technology and generating energy, preferably energy that was directly replacing fossil fuel use, which is blamed for the greenhouse gas emissions that help cause global warming, said James.
"Energy recovery has a role to play, and if we're trying to divert more waste from landfill, we need to increase recycling and increase some energy recovery. But we need to make sure we get the right technologies," he said.
In more than four out of five cases, recycling was the clear winner, said Keith James, Wrap's environmental policy manager.
But there were "different messages" for different materials, said James.
"For biopolymers, I think the preferable option is recycling, which isn't what people have commonly thought," he said.
"For textiles, there's not very many statistics, but what there is shows reuse is clearly optimal, followed by recycling and then energy recovery.
"For food and garden waste, anaerobic digestion looks preferable; then composting and incineration with energy recovery come out very similar.
"For plastics, we have got strong evidence this time that recycling is the better option, because recycling has improved.
"For wood, recycling looks preferable.
"For paper and cardboard, what the statistics throw out is the importance of quality: the higher the quality, the better it is to recycle, but as you go down to the lower end, energy recovery may be preferable."
The good showing for incineration – preferred for a small number of items and often the next best option after recycling – will be controversial with some environmental campaigners who worry about the pollution from recycling plants, and that incineration becomes an easy option that deters investment in proper recycling.
However, the option of incineration was only preferred when it was using the best technology and generating energy, preferably energy that was directly replacing fossil fuel use, which is blamed for the greenhouse gas emissions that help cause global warming, said James.
"Energy recovery has a role to play, and if we're trying to divert more waste from landfill, we need to increase recycling and increase some energy recovery. But we need to make sure we get the right technologies," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010...-waste-disposal
Arthur
QUOTE (Krieger der Wahrheit+Aug 9 2008, 11:35 PM)
I think it was a very bad idea to start using plastic bottles voraciously. Most plastic bottles aren't (to my knowledge) biodegradable and they are used like there is some sort of race to use as many per person as possible. I read that over 60,000,000 are used each day in America alone. That is an extreme amount of non biodegradable waste. I know that there have been moves towards bioplastic lately but I'm not totally up to speed on the topic. Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject or and relevant information? Is making and using the bottles in such volume anything other than us shooting ourselves in the foot?
I am completely agreed with you. Even the use of plastic must be reduce up to great extent. As we all know that it is biodegradable. So as it does not decomposes, it generates pollutants and destroy the natural environment. Vice-verse this gives a great credit in Global Warming. Plastic bags and its bottles should be especially reduce its utility.
I am completely agreed with you. Even the use of plastic must be reduce up to great extent. As we all know that it is biodegradable. So as it does not decomposes, it generates pollutants and destroy the natural environment. Vice-verse this gives a great credit in Global Warming. Plastic bags and its bottles should be especially reduce its utility.
By buying recycled product and adopting recycle life style we can save the resource for the future generation also reduce the plastic pollution in the some extent.
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