Here I will pose a question for you to answer.
It is a riddle that has plagued me for quite some time, and I have searched long and wide for the answer.
Here is my question, and some reasoning behind it:
If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?
My question:
What force acts on photons to force them into oscillations?
I am not looking for a 'just because it does' answer. There has to be a real reason for this.
One of imaginary answers consider oscilations as resonance interferance. Every resonation exists at the same time. In no time actually. Everything exists in the same instance. In simplified picture It seems that horizontal resonance would reflect vertical oscilations and opposite. This could be interpreted also as resonation faster than photonic wave which makes photonic wave oscilate which it doesnt really. For example black hole resonation if distincted from photonic would be infinitely faster since it is a resonation within which photonic wave travels horizontaly. And it defines the instancy which is itself and is what we call universe. Another crazy explanation is this looney resonation enfoldment as self entraped wave (randomly bent space) through which photonic wave resonates as horizontal (linear) waving. It passes through the surface of vertical resonance (surface of space) it follows it exactly as it is. And one can only imagine how twisted (enfolded or spiralic for example) this stuff is since Photonic wave oscilates. Two points for example seem very far away from each other indeed.
Perhaps you could ask a more basic question, "Why does light (EM) exist, in the first place?".
Regards,
Doc
Regards,
Doc
QUOTE (karuoun+Feb 27 2007, 07:48 PM)
If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?
The photon particle and the light wave are two different aspects of the same thing. By AWT the vacuum is formed by elastic foam. Like each foam, the introducing of energy (the "shaking") into foam makes it more more dense. Even the single light wave (soliton or wave packet) makes the vacuum more dense temporarily.
While the light wave is undulating phenomena, the photon behaves like the dense blob of vacuum foam connected with the light wave packet. It has inertial properties, so it spreads like each massive body along the shortest path available. The energy of wave makes the photon massive, the inertia of photon gives the wave straight path due the Newton inertia law. Both these phenomena are in duality, while the photon (particle) character of wave is pronounced with the age of wave (see the right animation). The elementary particles, planets, stars or even whole Universe are just "pretty old" energy waves from this perspective.
Under deeper view, both the particle and wave spreading are nearly equivalent (the particle appears just as a more compact wave packet with another level of foam surfaces inside it) and they're supposed to be controlled by inertial diffusion of aether density fluctuations. This diffusion is fully gradient driven, so it always proceeds in perpendicular direction to the Aether density gradient. In fact, every movement is just a sort of slow dissolution of matter in field density gradient or certain sort of meta wave, because such dissolving is believed to be reversible and it leads to the accidental increasing of Aether density somewhere else by the same way, like the reversible precipitation and subsequent dissolving of density fluctuations.
What we see during massive body motion is pretty same picture, with the only exception: the density fluctuations are incredibly dense, more dense then we can even imagine. Due to its density these fluctuations are having a spongy character of negative curvature and they even highly recursive, while the foamy density fluctuations between normal particles having sparse blobby character with positive curvature.
In fact, the AWT makes the understanding of Universe pretty trivial under assumption of infinite insintric Universe inertia/energy at the price. It seems, every logic in Universe understanding is balanced by the requirement of some crazy assumption, the more absurd, the more simple and logical explanation is used.
From this point of view, the belief in God is just a boundary example of such dilemma, because the assumption of infinite inertia and energy of Universe from the very beginning is not very different from pure belief in God with respect of violation of everyday causality. Even the Big Bang hypothesis suffers by this dilemma and the AWT goes even much more deeper.
The more you want to understand the Universe on the background of everyday rules, the more you're required to believe in their violation during extrapolation into history and/or future. By such way, whole our understanding is based on inertia driven chaos-causality duality and it's undergoing the uncertainty principle by the same way, like the world of quantum mechanic.
The photon particle and the light wave are two different aspects of the same thing. By AWT the vacuum is formed by elastic foam. Like each foam, the introducing of energy (the "shaking") into foam makes it more more dense. Even the single light wave (soliton or wave packet) makes the vacuum more dense temporarily.
While the light wave is undulating phenomena, the photon behaves like the dense blob of vacuum foam connected with the light wave packet. It has inertial properties, so it spreads like each massive body along the shortest path available. The energy of wave makes the photon massive, the inertia of photon gives the wave straight path due the Newton inertia law. Both these phenomena are in duality, while the photon (particle) character of wave is pronounced with the age of wave (see the right animation). The elementary particles, planets, stars or even whole Universe are just "pretty old" energy waves from this perspective.
Under deeper view, both the particle and wave spreading are nearly equivalent (the particle appears just as a more compact wave packet with another level of foam surfaces inside it) and they're supposed to be controlled by inertial diffusion of aether density fluctuations. This diffusion is fully gradient driven, so it always proceeds in perpendicular direction to the Aether density gradient. In fact, every movement is just a sort of slow dissolution of matter in field density gradient or certain sort of meta wave, because such dissolving is believed to be reversible and it leads to the accidental increasing of Aether density somewhere else by the same way, like the reversible precipitation and subsequent dissolving of density fluctuations.
What we see during massive body motion is pretty same picture, with the only exception: the density fluctuations are incredibly dense, more dense then we can even imagine. Due to its density these fluctuations are having a spongy character of negative curvature and they even highly recursive, while the foamy density fluctuations between normal particles having sparse blobby character with positive curvature.
In fact, the AWT makes the understanding of Universe pretty trivial under assumption of infinite insintric Universe inertia/energy at the price. It seems, every logic in Universe understanding is balanced by the requirement of some crazy assumption, the more absurd, the more simple and logical explanation is used.
From this point of view, the belief in God is just a boundary example of such dilemma, because the assumption of infinite inertia and energy of Universe from the very beginning is not very different from pure belief in God with respect of violation of everyday causality. Even the Big Bang hypothesis suffers by this dilemma and the AWT goes even much more deeper.
The more you want to understand the Universe on the background of everyday rules, the more you're required to believe in their violation during extrapolation into history and/or future. By such way, whole our understanding is based on inertia driven chaos-causality duality and it's undergoing the uncertainty principle by the same way, like the world of quantum mechanic.
In my opinion when moving absolutely towards light it blueshifts. And vice versa.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALLS --
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALLS --
"If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?"
Perhaps one could say that light travels in waves like a fish is swimming -
Perhaps one could say that light travels in waves like a fish is swimming -
QUOTE (bukh+Feb 28 2007, 06:55 AM)
"If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?"
Perhaps one could say that light travels in waves like a fish is swimming -
Very valid observation.
Or like projectile in the air.
Perhaps one could say that light travels in waves like a fish is swimming -
Very valid observation.
Or like projectile in the air.
Hi All,
Easiest explanation I can give is that a moving electric charge generates a magnetic field. These Electric fields and Magnetic fields are perpendicular and self perpetuating.
Peace,
Ron
Easiest explanation I can give is that a moving electric charge generates a magnetic field. These Electric fields and Magnetic fields are perpendicular and self perpetuating.
Peace,
Ron
An air is not a perfect fluid but we observe moving whirles of the hurricane. It is like a particle with a rest mass. The air is moving very fast in the whirle (not faster then a sound) but the whole whirle is moving slowly.
The whirlwind decays if there is no an energy supply.
The space is a perfect fluid - elastic and flexible. the oscillations are exchanged due to potential energy in the space. Energy is just an inwards oscillation of the space. If it is inwards it makes a length contraction of the space. There is a gradient of the oscillations density between the masses and it causes a gravity.
All energy causes the inwards oscillation of the space and inwards curvature of the space. In the stronger gravitational field are the oscillations of the space (potential energy) denser and it causes faster oscillations of the photon (blue shift).
Potential energy of the space (inwards oscillations of the space) are transformed into a kinetic energy of the particle (oscillations and velocity of the rest mass). There is higher temperature close to hypothetical Event Horizon of the Black Hole Like Object.
The whirlwind decays if there is no an energy supply.
The space is a perfect fluid - elastic and flexible. the oscillations are exchanged due to potential energy in the space. Energy is just an inwards oscillation of the space. If it is inwards it makes a length contraction of the space. There is a gradient of the oscillations density between the masses and it causes a gravity.
All energy causes the inwards oscillation of the space and inwards curvature of the space. In the stronger gravitational field are the oscillations of the space (potential energy) denser and it causes faster oscillations of the photon (blue shift).
Potential energy of the space (inwards oscillations of the space) are transformed into a kinetic energy of the particle (oscillations and velocity of the rest mass). There is higher temperature close to hypothetical Event Horizon of the Black Hole Like Object.
I see your point, but if that is true, what is affecting space to cause the force that causes space to bend and force the photon to loop in an oscillation?
karuoun. The wavelength of a photon is down to how it was initially emitted. The more energetic the emission was, the more oscillations the wave will have so the shorter the wavelength. A way of thinking of it is that photons have a set distance to cover and the smaller the distance (wavelength), the more times they can go back and forth in one second (frequency).
Though all photons move at a set speed, they have the equivalent of a spin put on them. The oscillation which must contain the information of their birth which allows us to see images, etc when there are enough of them.
A good diagram nearly half way down :
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Intro/Part2_4.html
Though all photons move at a set speed, they have the equivalent of a spin put on them. The oscillation which must contain the information of their birth which allows us to see images, etc when there are enough of them.
A good diagram nearly half way down :
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Intro/Part2_4.html
Kaneda
"The oscillation which must contain the information of their birth which allows us to see images, etc when there are enough of them."
Or perhaps one could say that it is the oscillation we see when the photon arrives.
When I said that the photon moves like a fish is swimming - I actually thougt that the photon is moving not like a bullit but more like a fish. In order to propagate the photon need to build a moving force - and perhaps a photon is using energy (oscillation) in order to move.
"The oscillation which must contain the information of their birth which allows us to see images, etc when there are enough of them."
Or perhaps one could say that it is the oscillation we see when the photon arrives.
When I said that the photon moves like a fish is swimming - I actually thougt that the photon is moving not like a bullit but more like a fish. In order to propagate the photon need to build a moving force - and perhaps a photon is using energy (oscillation) in order to move.
From what I have learned photons travel in photon pairs. With them traveling in pairs the presence of one may have an effect on the other. Perhaps a small gravitational effect. This may give their spin an unbalance much like the unbalanced spin of the weight that can be found in one of those spiral pens. You draw a straight line with one of these pens fast enough and instead of spirals you end up with a wave patter.
As for the photons traveling in pairs in case your wondering. A photon's effective energy is expressed by the equation
E = n*h*frequency
Since energy is the motion the particle has it is more specifically the rate of motion (or rate of action as it can also be called). In this case you need at least 2 action units to establish a rate of action.
E = 2*h*frequency
And so photons travel in photon pairs.
As for the photons traveling in pairs in case your wondering. A photon's effective energy is expressed by the equation
E = n*h*frequency
Since energy is the motion the particle has it is more specifically the rate of motion (or rate of action as it can also be called). In this case you need at least 2 action units to establish a rate of action.
E = 2*h*frequency
And so photons travel in photon pairs.
Light (or a photon) does not actually travel through a wave path. You would be correct to say this defies the logic of physics.
Instead the 'wave effect' is the result of the form of the photon as it passes through what is considered a point of space.
If a car drives past a point first you get the low front of the car then the high roof then the low rear of the car. If you were to keep your hand at that point and move it relative to the top of the car you would see your hand move up as the front passed through giving way to the roof and you would see your hand move donw as the roof gave way to the rear.
In this way the car has acted as a wave while travelling through a straight path.
The same goes for light (photons). As the photon passes through a point your hand wobbles up and down with the top of the wave shaped photon.
Instead the 'wave effect' is the result of the form of the photon as it passes through what is considered a point of space.
If a car drives past a point first you get the low front of the car then the high roof then the low rear of the car. If you were to keep your hand at that point and move it relative to the top of the car you would see your hand move up as the front passed through giving way to the roof and you would see your hand move donw as the roof gave way to the rear.
In this way the car has acted as a wave while travelling through a straight path.
The same goes for light (photons). As the photon passes through a point your hand wobbles up and down with the top of the wave shaped photon.
Polarizable Vacuum
Are we identifying the vacuum as a space between particles? This sort of fundamental identification is what is important. We sort of know what we are talking about in a dielectric material. What about in the vacuum itself? As I said, the meditation is, what is epsilon-nought?........................................... .................................................. ....................... ............................................................................................................ALBERS to PUTHOFF: Have you convinced yourself of what epsilon-nought is?
PUTHOFF: "Yes. For a medium (say a crystal) you have D = eE = e_oE + P = e_oE + aE where a is the polarizability per unit vol of the crystal. This makes it clear that e_o is the polarizability per unit volume of the vacuum (due in this case not to actual charges like in the crystal but due to virtual electron-positron pairs in the vacuum). See my attached paper for discussion of this". .......................................................................................................(I'm back speaking) Our question is why didn't the light from a star really far away in terms of the subtended angle (!!! figure it) that the light could have spread out to vanishing local strength. I show how the vacuum dipole availability is what keeps the wave packet disturbance self-focussed.
__________________
The string uncut and unstrung has no note.......... Don't cage your oscillator too tightly: it'll foam. http://laps.noaa.gov/albers/physics/na
Are we identifying the vacuum as a space between particles? This sort of fundamental identification is what is important. We sort of know what we are talking about in a dielectric material. What about in the vacuum itself? As I said, the meditation is, what is epsilon-nought?........................................... .................................................. ....................... ............................................................................................................ALBERS to PUTHOFF: Have you convinced yourself of what epsilon-nought is?
PUTHOFF: "Yes. For a medium (say a crystal) you have D = eE = e_oE + P = e_oE + aE where a is the polarizability per unit vol of the crystal. This makes it clear that e_o is the polarizability per unit volume of the vacuum (due in this case not to actual charges like in the crystal but due to virtual electron-positron pairs in the vacuum). See my attached paper for discussion of this". .......................................................................................................(I'm back speaking) Our question is why didn't the light from a star really far away in terms of the subtended angle (!!! figure it) that the light could have spread out to vanishing local strength. I show how the vacuum dipole availability is what keeps the wave packet disturbance self-focussed.
__________________
The string uncut and unstrung has no note.......... Don't cage your oscillator too tightly: it'll foam. http://laps.noaa.gov/albers/physics/na
gonegahgah posted:
Very similar to my hypothesis
I knew that such wave motion defied the laws of physics, as there would have had to have been an outside force acting upon the photon to force it to cycle. So, I decided that there must be more to photons than meets the eye.
There has to be more to it. So, I posed this question to get the input from some of the other thinkers in the field, and it has proven quite magnificent. Thank you. In this post, I will attempt to link some of the things said previously in this same forum, I would like you to draw your own conclusions at the end.
QUOTE
Light (or a photon) does not actually travel through a wave path. You would be correct to say this defies the logic of physics.
Instead the 'wave effect' is the result of the form of the photon as it passes through what is considered a point of space.
If a car drives past a point first you get the low front of the car then the high roof then the low rear of the car. If you were to keep your hand at that point and move it relative to the top of the car you would see your hand move up as the front passed through giving way to the roof and you would see your hand move down as the roof gave way to the rear.
In this way the car has acted as a wave while traveling through a straight path.
The same goes for light (photons). As the photon passes through a point your hand wobbles up and down with the top of the wave shaped photon
. Instead the 'wave effect' is the result of the form of the photon as it passes through what is considered a point of space.
If a car drives past a point first you get the low front of the car then the high roof then the low rear of the car. If you were to keep your hand at that point and move it relative to the top of the car you would see your hand move up as the front passed through giving way to the roof and you would see your hand move down as the roof gave way to the rear.
In this way the car has acted as a wave while traveling through a straight path.
The same goes for light (photons). As the photon passes through a point your hand wobbles up and down with the top of the wave shaped photon
Very similar to my hypothesis
I knew that such wave motion defied the laws of physics, as there would have had to have been an outside force acting upon the photon to force it to cycle. So, I decided that there must be more to photons than meets the eye.
There has to be more to it. So, I posed this question to get the input from some of the other thinkers in the field, and it has proven quite magnificent. Thank you. In this post, I will attempt to link some of the things said previously in this same forum, I would like you to draw your own conclusions at the end.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Light (or a photon) does not actually travel through a wave path. You would be correct to say this defies the logic of physics. Instead the 'wave effect' is the result of the form of the photon as it passes through what is considered a point of space. If a car drives past a point first you get the low front of the car then the high roof then the low rear of the car. If you were to keep your hand at that point and move it relative to the top of the car you would see your hand move up as the front passed through giving way to the roof and you would see your hand move down as the roof gave way to the rear. In this way the car has acted as a wave while traveling through a straight path. The same goes for light (photons). As the photon passes through a point your hand wobbles up and down with the top of the wave shaped photon |
.
Very similar to my hypothesis
I knew that such wave motion defied the laws of physics, as there would have had to have been an outside force acting upon the photon to force it to cycle. So, I decided that there must be more to photons than meets the eye.
There has to be more to it. So, I posed this question to get the input from some of the other thinkers in the field, and it has proven quite magnificent. Thank you. In this post, I will attempt to link some of the things said previously in this same forum, I would like you to draw your own conclusions at the end.
Light (or a photon) does not actually travel through a wave path.
That is because we only observe part of the object.
May have such an effect on the other. But instead of this, it seems we still don't understand why the photons expand with further energy. There is also the question, what is the larger force behind the movement of photons, or what causes them to interact with other forms of electromagnetic waves, such as matter.
There is still to little information to form a solid conclusion on this topic, so I will provide another hypothetical answer to one of the questions: What causes the photons to loop in wave oscilations.
Wave motion is simply the three dimensional image left by higher; four dimensional objects. Since we are made up of the same stuff as light, it means that we also are made up of higher four dimensional objects. We can only observe the three dimensional version of the objects as they pass into the three dimensional plane, which can be compared to a sphere passing through a piece of paper: First a dot appears, then slowly expands into a circle at its widest, shrinking back to a point and vanishing again. Much the same with four dimensional objects, or multidimensional objects in general. Unlike the sphere and the paper, four dimensional objects have so many other aspects that are as of yet defined. Electromagnetic waves could be these four dimensional objects, interacting and doing whatever.
When an atom gains energy, it does not push its electrons away, in fact, it holds them tighter and draws them closer. Similar in the way that when light gains energy, its wavelength does not get larger, instead it gets smaller. I placed the two together and made another hypothesis: The objects may conjoin each other, thus eliminating the oscillation through movement, instead oscillating around another four dimensional object, such as a proton, which is comprised of much smaller objects (thus more energy?). In affect, the more energy you add to an object, the smaller it gets, as it is attracted to itself, or something within it. This seems to only apply to single objects, such as a photon, or an atom; as when you start bringing more of them together, they react differently, the energy you add to a system is eagerly snagged by surrounding objects, which increases the entropy of the system.
Simply a reply. I do not have enough information to complete my hypothesis.
Very similar to my hypothesis
I knew that such wave motion defied the laws of physics, as there would have had to have been an outside force acting upon the photon to force it to cycle. So, I decided that there must be more to photons than meets the eye.
There has to be more to it. So, I posed this question to get the input from some of the other thinkers in the field, and it has proven quite magnificent. Thank you. In this post, I will attempt to link some of the things said previously in this same forum, I would like you to draw your own conclusions at the end.
Light (or a photon) does not actually travel through a wave path.
That is because we only observe part of the object.
QUOTE
From what I have learned photons travel in photon pairs. With them traveling in pairs the presence of one may have an effect on the other. Perhaps a small gravitational effect. This may give their spin an unbalance much like the unbalanced spin of the weight that can be found in one of those spiral pens. You draw a straight line with one of these pens fast enough and instead of spirals you end up with a wave patter.
May have such an effect on the other. But instead of this, it seems we still don't understand why the photons expand with further energy. There is also the question, what is the larger force behind the movement of photons, or what causes them to interact with other forms of electromagnetic waves, such as matter.
There is still to little information to form a solid conclusion on this topic, so I will provide another hypothetical answer to one of the questions: What causes the photons to loop in wave oscilations.
Wave motion is simply the three dimensional image left by higher; four dimensional objects. Since we are made up of the same stuff as light, it means that we also are made up of higher four dimensional objects. We can only observe the three dimensional version of the objects as they pass into the three dimensional plane, which can be compared to a sphere passing through a piece of paper: First a dot appears, then slowly expands into a circle at its widest, shrinking back to a point and vanishing again. Much the same with four dimensional objects, or multidimensional objects in general. Unlike the sphere and the paper, four dimensional objects have so many other aspects that are as of yet defined. Electromagnetic waves could be these four dimensional objects, interacting and doing whatever.
When an atom gains energy, it does not push its electrons away, in fact, it holds them tighter and draws them closer. Similar in the way that when light gains energy, its wavelength does not get larger, instead it gets smaller. I placed the two together and made another hypothesis: The objects may conjoin each other, thus eliminating the oscillation through movement, instead oscillating around another four dimensional object, such as a proton, which is comprised of much smaller objects (thus more energy?). In affect, the more energy you add to an object, the smaller it gets, as it is attracted to itself, or something within it. This seems to only apply to single objects, such as a photon, or an atom; as when you start bringing more of them together, they react differently, the energy you add to a system is eagerly snagged by surrounding objects, which increases the entropy of the system.
Simply a reply. I do not have enough information to complete my hypothesis.
QUOTE (karuoun+Mar 6 2007, 05:35 PM)
...it seems we still don't understand why the photons expand with further energy....
Just because we are ignoring the Aether foam concept of AWT. The light wave motion is shaking the Aether foam temporarily, thus making it more dense at this moment and location. The more dense foam behaves like more dense-inertial material for such light wave, so it will shorten the wavelength of light and it spreads the deformation of neighboring vacuum to the larger distance. After all, each the different result would appear a pretty strange, isn't it?
Just because we are ignoring the Aether foam concept of AWT. The light wave motion is shaking the Aether foam temporarily, thus making it more dense at this moment and location. The more dense foam behaves like more dense-inertial material for such light wave, so it will shorten the wavelength of light and it spreads the deformation of neighboring vacuum to the larger distance. After all, each the different result would appear a pretty strange, isn't it?
Hi Zephir
While your here I just wanted to ask another clarifying question of your theory. You may have answered it already elsewhere. I apoligise for asking it again if you have.
Sorry, firstly what were the different types of waves again?
With water waves they rely on the lesser resistance offered by the surface to allow waves to move more easily and faster with a cycle motion of the particles; whereas sound has to try and barge its way through by the molecules bumping their neighbour under the water lengthwise.
Consquently surface waves use a cycle motion of the particles and sound waves use a compression only motion of the particles.
You have expressed your theory as the light waves moving like the surface wave cycle motion rather than a banging motion. Is that correct? If so would the surface to allow this exist as another dimension beyond our three (not counting time)?
Thanks
While your here I just wanted to ask another clarifying question of your theory. You may have answered it already elsewhere. I apoligise for asking it again if you have.
Sorry, firstly what were the different types of waves again?
With water waves they rely on the lesser resistance offered by the surface to allow waves to move more easily and faster with a cycle motion of the particles; whereas sound has to try and barge its way through by the molecules bumping their neighbour under the water lengthwise.
Consquently surface waves use a cycle motion of the particles and sound waves use a compression only motion of the particles.
You have expressed your theory as the light waves moving like the surface wave cycle motion rather than a banging motion. Is that correct? If so would the surface to allow this exist as another dimension beyond our three (not counting time)?
Thanks
QUOTE (gonegahgah+Mar 6 2007, 07:52 PM)
..what were the different types of waves again...
We have just a single type of wave by AWT, i.e. those described by wave equation. But this wave always changes the density of environment at the place of energy spreading, which leads into various nonlinear phenomena, the formation of the standing wave packets in particular.
We have just a single type of wave by AWT, i.e. those described by wave equation. But this wave always changes the density of environment at the place of energy spreading, which leads into various nonlinear phenomena, the formation of the standing wave packets in particular.
QUOTE (gonegahgah+Mar 6 2007, 07:52 PM)
..with water waves they rely on the lesser resistance offered by the surface to allow waves to move more easily and faster with a cycle motion of the particles....
Yep and this is fundamentally the origin of the apparent superfluidity of vacuum: these gradients are just heavily pronounced due the immense density of Aether, forming the vacuum. In the system of chaotically moving inertial particles some blobby density fluctuations occurs. The prevailing type of waves are the longitudinal bulk ones.
But at the case, the density of particle increases, the character of density fluctuations changes towards the formation of flat membranes due the immense repulsive forces between colliding particles. What we can observe by now are just the waves spreading along surfaces of these membranes. This gives the energy apparent character of transversal waves. By such way, the mechanical system can switch the character of the transversal waves into longitudinal and back again rather seamlessly, only by changing the particle energy density.
Yep and this is fundamentally the origin of the apparent superfluidity of vacuum: these gradients are just heavily pronounced due the immense density of Aether, forming the vacuum. In the system of chaotically moving inertial particles some blobby density fluctuations occurs. The prevailing type of waves are the longitudinal bulk ones.
But at the case, the density of particle increases, the character of density fluctuations changes towards the formation of flat membranes due the immense repulsive forces between colliding particles. What we can observe by now are just the waves spreading along surfaces of these membranes. This gives the energy apparent character of transversal waves. By such way, the mechanical system can switch the character of the transversal waves into longitudinal and back again rather seamlessly, only by changing the particle energy density.
QUOTE (gonegahgah+Mar 6 2007, 07:52 PM)
..would the surface to allow this exist as another dimension beyond our three?....
The surfaces in the nested aether foam are serving like the paths for waves spreading, i.e. the subspaces. After all, the dimensions is a quite material thing by AWT, being formed by density gradients of Aether, i.e. by the density of another nested gradients.
The surfaces in the nested aether foam are serving like the paths for waves spreading, i.e. the subspaces. After all, the dimensions is a quite material thing by AWT, being formed by density gradients of Aether, i.e. by the density of another nested gradients.
Hi Zephir
Thanks
Thanks
Thank you Zephir, but I am looking for the force that causes the waves in the first place. What causes the particles to have the wave like qualities? I am not looking for a theory, I am looking for the force behind it.
QUOTE (karuoun+Mar 9 2007, 07:12 PM)
...I am looking for the force that causes the waves in the first place. What causes the particles to have the wave like qualities? I am not looking for a theory, I am looking for the force behind it...
By my opinion, the wave character of Universe is given by the fact, it's the most casual kind of motion imaginable, being fully driven by its own gradient. The AWT just assumes, the Aether is of infinite mass and energy density at the same time, so the effect of both these quantities compensates mutually in chaotic motion. Therefore, each the violation of this chaos will lead to the manifestation of this hidden immanent energy and mass. Every causal gradient can be considered as the violation of the regularity of this irregularity and it has less or more pronounced atemporal and inertial behavior. The more organized and causal gradient, the more real and persistent such gradient appears for us, the more energy or matter appears at this place.
The most organized, periodic and atemporal is therefore the wave undulations of Aether, which are having an tendency to concentrate the other weak undulations into it. Because the AWT is geometrodynamic theory in fact, such phenomena it can be considered as the sort of optical effect (i.e. the result of the corresponding space-time curvature) by the same way, like then result of some real force. If you'll observe the light wave refraction during passing of light by some glass sphere, you can imagine, the photon wave is being attracted by certain fictious force to the center of such sphere at the moment, the photon will pass through surface of sphere. While such idea appears ridiculous, it looks quite normal from the perspective of the particle wave packet spreading through inhomogeneous environment forming the gravity field of some planet. The AWT is very pluralistic model of reality based on dualities, everything depends on the observer position here. By such way, it's just a matter of the observer perspective, if you'll perceive the nonlinear (accelerated) motion through Aether as the density gradient effect, or as the result of some less or more apparent force.
By my opinion, the wave character of Universe is given by the fact, it's the most casual kind of motion imaginable, being fully driven by its own gradient. The AWT just assumes, the Aether is of infinite mass and energy density at the same time, so the effect of both these quantities compensates mutually in chaotic motion. Therefore, each the violation of this chaos will lead to the manifestation of this hidden immanent energy and mass. Every causal gradient can be considered as the violation of the regularity of this irregularity and it has less or more pronounced atemporal and inertial behavior. The more organized and causal gradient, the more real and persistent such gradient appears for us, the more energy or matter appears at this place.
The most organized, periodic and atemporal is therefore the wave undulations of Aether, which are having an tendency to concentrate the other weak undulations into it. Because the AWT is geometrodynamic theory in fact, such phenomena it can be considered as the sort of optical effect (i.e. the result of the corresponding space-time curvature) by the same way, like then result of some real force. If you'll observe the light wave refraction during passing of light by some glass sphere, you can imagine, the photon wave is being attracted by certain fictious force to the center of such sphere at the moment, the photon will pass through surface of sphere. While such idea appears ridiculous, it looks quite normal from the perspective of the particle wave packet spreading through inhomogeneous environment forming the gravity field of some planet. The AWT is very pluralistic model of reality based on dualities, everything depends on the observer position here. By such way, it's just a matter of the observer perspective, if you'll perceive the nonlinear (accelerated) motion through Aether as the density gradient effect, or as the result of some less or more apparent force.
Zephir, I don't yet know if we are describing a similar thing mathematically. You show density waves and forms if I read correctly. I am trying to figure out if this is essentially a homogenous system, because I describe E&M disturbances involving a space-charge reaction from the vacuum.
QUOTE (Albers+Mar 9 2007, 08:00 PM)
I describe E&M disturbances involving a space-charge reaction from the vacuum
What is the space-charge reaction from the vacuum, exactly? Why not to describe the real well known things by using of real, well known concepts, preferably?
What is the space-charge reaction from the vacuum, exactly? Why not to describe the real well known things by using of real, well known concepts, preferably?
QUOTE (karuoun+Feb 27 2007, 04:48 PM)
Here I will pose a question for you to answer.
It is a riddle that has plagued me for quite some time, and I have searched long and wide for the answer.
Here is my question, and some reasoning behind it:
If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?
My question:
What force acts on photons to force them into oscillations?
I am not looking for a 'just because it does' answer. There has to be a real reason for this.
The oscillation is the photon, karuoun. There is no force acting upon it, it's a ripple, a travelling stress, and stress is force per unit area. The photon is the force. See GRAVITY EXPLAINED for the rubberworld analogy. It should give you the general idea.
It is a riddle that has plagued me for quite some time, and I have searched long and wide for the answer.
Here is my question, and some reasoning behind it:
If all objects travel in straight lines unless acted on by outside forces, then why does light travel in wave patterns? What prevents it from simply traveling straight and not having wave properties?
My question:
What force acts on photons to force them into oscillations?
I am not looking for a 'just because it does' answer. There has to be a real reason for this.
The oscillation is the photon, karuoun. There is no force acting upon it, it's a ripple, a travelling stress, and stress is force per unit area. The photon is the force. See GRAVITY EXPLAINED for the rubberworld analogy. It should give you the general idea.
QUOTE (Zephir+Mar 9 2007, 05:46 PM)
What is the space-charge reaction from the vacuum, exactly? Why not to describe the real well known things by using of real, well known concepts, preferably?
Given an electromagnetic wave disturbance the vacuum in my study offers the response of a superconductor whose fundamental scale, relative to wavelength, is the fine structure constant. When you read about superconducting cryogenic rings, they are analyzed assuming a magnetic vector potential A induces an opposite current (Lenz' Law) according to j=(-lambda^2) A. This is the first of two terms in my time-dependent field.
Given an electromagnetic wave disturbance the vacuum in my study offers the response of a superconductor whose fundamental scale, relative to wavelength, is the fine structure constant. When you read about superconducting cryogenic rings, they are analyzed assuming a magnetic vector potential A induces an opposite current (Lenz' Law) according to j=(-lambda^2) A. This is the first of two terms in my time-dependent field.
In a superconducting material, the constant of proportionality between magnetic field A and current j reflects electron density in the material as well as basic charge, with electron mass and eps_o in the denominator. I do not yet know quantum vacuum polarization theory, and I have approached this study to show what sort of characteristics should be supplied by such a theory. If the vacuum gives the responses I consider, then we might consider the vacuum to be as a massless, neutral plasma, meaning it is an availability whose characteristics will be more deeply understood in a combined inhomogeneous theory.
hi karuoun,
you can look at this much more simply by thinking about the models we are using. When one talks of photons, they are using a particle model, when talking about wave, the wave model (obviously).
Firstly, think about the photon. It can be described as a little wave packet. You can think of that as a little point of energy that pulsates, but to make it easier think of it as a little ball of energy that pulsates. It has a frequency/wavelength and an energy but it is a self contained entity - it does not emit anything ... it just pulsates.
You can imagine the pulsations as an expansion and contraction of the photon in size to get a handle on the important point I will make now.
Now when this little ball moves thru space, it will not be deterred from a straight line unless something (gravity) causes it to, but the ball will pulsate all the way along. The ball isnt wiggling thru space .. it travels in a straight line.
Now, look at it as a wave. With a wave, there is no particle (or ball), but it is just a variation in an electro-magnetic field which moves through space in a particular direction. The fact that the field is varying is really not relevant to the direction the wave travels because the total energy that the wave "carries" moves through space in a straight line - ummmmmm ... think of the centre line of the wave as being the path the wave takes. How about this dumb analogy - imagine superman flying through space in a straight line. Now he starts to push his arms straight out to his sides (like an aeroplane), then he retracts them, then pushes them out. Let that be the varying magnetic field. He is still travelling in a straight line. Now imagine he stops using his arms and uses his heat vision to heat himself up, then let space cool him down and so on. That is more like a wave moving thru space ... the wiggling part isnt really anything material.
Nothing takes a wiggling path through space. Waves, or photons effectively move in straight lines.
Sorry about the crappy analogies
Ian
you can look at this much more simply by thinking about the models we are using. When one talks of photons, they are using a particle model, when talking about wave, the wave model (obviously).
Firstly, think about the photon. It can be described as a little wave packet. You can think of that as a little point of energy that pulsates, but to make it easier think of it as a little ball of energy that pulsates. It has a frequency/wavelength and an energy but it is a self contained entity - it does not emit anything ... it just pulsates.
You can imagine the pulsations as an expansion and contraction of the photon in size to get a handle on the important point I will make now.
Now when this little ball moves thru space, it will not be deterred from a straight line unless something (gravity) causes it to, but the ball will pulsate all the way along. The ball isnt wiggling thru space .. it travels in a straight line.
Now, look at it as a wave. With a wave, there is no particle (or ball), but it is just a variation in an electro-magnetic field which moves through space in a particular direction. The fact that the field is varying is really not relevant to the direction the wave travels because the total energy that the wave "carries" moves through space in a straight line - ummmmmm ... think of the centre line of the wave as being the path the wave takes. How about this dumb analogy - imagine superman flying through space in a straight line. Now he starts to push his arms straight out to his sides (like an aeroplane), then he retracts them, then pushes them out. Let that be the varying magnetic field. He is still travelling in a straight line. Now imagine he stops using his arms and uses his heat vision to heat himself up, then let space cool him down and so on. That is more like a wave moving thru space ... the wiggling part isnt really anything material.
Nothing takes a wiggling path through space. Waves, or photons effectively move in straight lines.
Sorry about the crappy analogies
Ian
Hi karuoun, do you still remember your question...?
Light is a wave. You just shouldn't try to imagine a photon as a point that moves or oscillates or whatever: it would only confuse you. Photons may be a useful mental representation at the time light is emitted or absorbed, that's all.
Other particles are waves as well. Don't imagine they propagate like a bullet: they really show all the properties of a wave, including diffraction etc. This is simply experimental observation.
Many particles have smaller wavelengths as photons, so the typical behaviour of waves may be less observable, as small wavelengths make propagation etc more precise. But if you think of electrons: atoms have a diameter because their electrons are waves. A point-electron would fall on the nucleus.
QM was very abstract at its beginning, and many confusing explanations were invented at that time. Since Schrödinger's version of QM - that is, waves - you don't need disturbing analogies any more, such as "surfer and wave at the same time"... QM is still complicated and counterintuitive enough.
If you're interested by QM, just learn it in a true textbook. Not necessarily easy, but at least you should get a more workable representation than through all the confusing analogies that were invented.
Light is a wave. You just shouldn't try to imagine a photon as a point that moves or oscillates or whatever: it would only confuse you. Photons may be a useful mental representation at the time light is emitted or absorbed, that's all.
Other particles are waves as well. Don't imagine they propagate like a bullet: they really show all the properties of a wave, including diffraction etc. This is simply experimental observation.
Many particles have smaller wavelengths as photons, so the typical behaviour of waves may be less observable, as small wavelengths make propagation etc more precise. But if you think of electrons: atoms have a diameter because their electrons are waves. A point-electron would fall on the nucleus.
QM was very abstract at its beginning, and many confusing explanations were invented at that time. Since Schrödinger's version of QM - that is, waves - you don't need disturbing analogies any more, such as "surfer and wave at the same time"... QM is still complicated and counterintuitive enough.
If you're interested by QM, just learn it in a true textbook. Not necessarily easy, but at least you should get a more workable representation than through all the confusing analogies that were invented.
Here is the answer to my question
A photon is comprised of an alternating and varying electrostatic field perpendicular to an alternating and varying magnetic field of equal strength. A photon propagates perpendicularly to both fields. In other words, it does travel in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force perpendicular to its axis of propagation.
The amount of energy a photon contains determines the amplitude and/or wavelength of the fields, but does not change the rate of propagation.
That leads to the next question: Which forces act on a photon?
Now, does the strong nuclear force and/or the weak nuclear force affect photons? From my studies, I have learned that highly charged nuclei cause photons to split into a beta plus and beta minus particle. Is this due to electrostatic forces or is it due to close relation to the nuclear forces?
A photon is comprised of an alternating and varying electrostatic field perpendicular to an alternating and varying magnetic field of equal strength. A photon propagates perpendicularly to both fields. In other words, it does travel in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force perpendicular to its axis of propagation.
The amount of energy a photon contains determines the amplitude and/or wavelength of the fields, but does not change the rate of propagation.
That leads to the next question: Which forces act on a photon?
- Electrostatic Force
- Magnetic Force
- Gravity
Now, does the strong nuclear force and/or the weak nuclear force affect photons? From my studies, I have learned that highly charged nuclei cause photons to split into a beta plus and beta minus particle. Is this due to electrostatic forces or is it due to close relation to the nuclear forces?
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