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Phosfor
"The Ordinances of Heaven"

Job 38:31-33
Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guideArcturus with his sons?
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

I’m sure that many of you are atheists but I’m also sure that many of you may still have some level of doubt. You may have had an unusual experience of some sort. Something that science simply could not explain. Perhaps, you’ve noticed too many coincidences, or an undeniable feeling that someone is guiding you. I firmly believe that the bible contains metaphors that can lead us to the correct theories in science. God’s word, String Theory, and Quantum Mechanism offer only pieces to the puzzle.

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.”

Scientists have now discovered that over a thousand years before Pythagoras was calculating the length of a hypotenuse, sophisticated scribes in Mesopotamia were working with the same theory to calculate the area of their farmland. These tablets bear evidence of practical as well as more advanced theoretical math and show just how sophisticated the ancient Babylonians were with numbers -- more than a millennium before Pythagoras and Euclid were doing the same in ancient Greece.

Scientific History tends not to record its failed attempts. It is written by the winners and the failures are soon forgotten. In my latest book you will discover how biblical clues can lead us to glimpses of the divine rules that govern the universe.

BOSE=EINSTEIN CONDENSATE:
Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Job 38:29-30
Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

DARK MATTER:
Genesis 1:3-4
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

STRING THEORY:
I believe that science is close to discovering an answer to why we cannot see God or the kingdom of heaven.
Job 38:19-20
Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

HYDROTHERMAL VENTS:
Scientists have made many discoveries that are now matching biblical text. Hydrothermal vents weren’t discovered until the 1970s but mentioned in the Bible more than three thousand years ago.
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Job 38:16
Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?

GENERAL RELATIVITY:
The theory of relativity wasn’t even mentioned until 1632 by Galileo, and later by Einstein in 1905, thousands of years earlier, we see that it was mentioned by Job.
Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven?

My book will help you discover the SECRETS that have been kept hidden for thousands of years. It will remove all doubt and shine light into darkness. You will gain wisdom and understanding. You will learn the essence of our universe, the nature of God.

Any ideas and all comments are welcomed. I am looking forward to a long a fruitful discourse.

Amen,

Douglas Burns Ph.D
adoucette
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 10:57 AM)
Job 38:31-33
Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?


“I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.” (Job 42:3)
buttershug
Do Lord of the Rings next.
Or maybe Shakespeare.

And look up Littlewood's law.
Phosfor
QUOTE (buttershug+Dec 27 2010, 05:19 PM)
Do Lord of the Rings next.
Or maybe Shakespeare.

And look up Littlewood's law.

It would appear that you do not understand the nature of God. Coincidences can be grouped together, not only by a cause, but also their meaning.
It’s call synchronicity.

Thank you for your comment.

D.B.
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 11:41 AM)
It would appear that you do not understand the nature of God. Coincidences can be grouped together, not only by a cause, but also their meaning.
It’s call synchronicity.

Thank you for your comment.

D.B.

There is also a psychological phenomenon involving vague and random stimulus being perceived as significant. It's called pareidolia.
Phosfor
QUOTE (Goofus A Gallant+Dec 27 2010, 06:00 PM)
There is also a psychological phenomenon involving vague and random stimulus being perceived as significant. It's called pareidolia.

“I want to tell you something. You're God in disguise”- Dr. Fred Alan Wolf

What evidence do you have that only the firing of neurons operate the brain? What evidence do you have that only the laws of physics operate the universe?

Thank you for your comment.

D.B. Ph.D
adoucette
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 12:41 PM)
It’s call synchronicity.

Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 12:17 PM)
“I want to tell you something.  You're God in disguise”- Dr. Fred Alan Wolf

"I am what I am" - Popeye the Sailor.

QUOTE

What evidence do you have that only the firing of neurons operate the brain?  What evidence do you have that only the laws of physics operate the universe?

What evidence have you got to the contrary?
AlexG
QUOTE
It would appear that you do not understand the nature of God.


Well obviously, you do. What do the little voices in your head tell you?

Is your Ph.D from the University of the Pacific? How much did they charge you for printing it up?
Phosfor
This isn’t my first barbeque. I’ve had many gratifying debates. Unfortunately, I am unable to insert links to further support my position. I would appreciate it if you would search for yourself, the information on the subject matters, or inform me on how to include links.

Thank you,

D.B. Ph.D

MIRROR MATTER:
Jesus said,
"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established itself, and appeared in their image.'

Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light. When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"


If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"
AlexG
QUOTE
This isn’t my first barbeque.


I'm sure it isn't. Religious zealots and wackos are ubiquitous on the net. It's so much more comfortable than standing on a street corner waving signs saying REPENT.
adoucette
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 02:18 PM)
inform me on how to include links.


Two ways.

Make a bunch of 1 word posts, as filler, I think once you are past 15 posts you can put in links

Or

Post a link but clip off the HTTP:// part and the editor won't catch it, but your readers can cut/paste into their URL window.

Like this:

www3.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/26/inside-the-beltway-75550480/print/
newguy
QUOTE (Phosfor+)
Jesus said,
"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established itself, and appeared in their image.'

Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light. When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"


If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"


Phosfor: Where are you quoting from? Certainly not the Bible.
Phosfor
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 27 2010, 08:20 PM)
QUOTE (Phosfor+)
Jesus said,
"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established itself, and appeared in their image.'

Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light. When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"


If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"


Phosfor: Where are you quoting from? Certainly not the Bible.

Known documents from the Second Temple Period like Enoch, Thomas,Jubilees, Tobit, Sirach,non-canonical psalms, etc., that were not ultimately canonized in the Hebrew Bible.
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 05:41 PM)
It would appear that you do not understand the nature of God. Coincidences can be grouped together, not only by a cause, but also their meaning.
It’s call synchronicity.

Thank you for your comment.

D.B.

You mean the believed nature of God.

And how do you tell the God made events from the expected random ones?
And does it appear that there are only expected amount? And not a whole lot of extra ones?

It would appear you don't understand probability.
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 06:17 PM)
“I want to tell you something. You're God in disguise”- Dr. Fred Alan Wolf

What evidence do you have that only the firing of neurons operate the brain? What evidence do you have that only the laws of physics operate the universe?

Thank you for your comment.

D.B. Ph.D

What evidence do you have that is more?

The tie breaker being the simplest answer...

Otherwise the FSM is equal to whatever you propose.
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 02:41 PM)

QUOTE (newguy+)
Phosfor: Where are you quoting from?  Certainly not the Bible.

Known documents from the Second Temple Period like Enoch, Thomas,Jubilees, Tobit, Sirach,non-canonical psalms, etc., that were not ultimately canonized in the Hebrew Bible.

So, you're not sure where they came from either?
newguy
QUOTE (Goofus A. Gallant+)
So, you're not sure where they came from either?


Goofus A. Gallant: I'm "snowed in" in New Jersey and I only commented because I got an email notifying me of this thread and I wanted to make sure that people understood that such quotes weren't coming from the Bible.

Good-bye.
Granouille
Merry Christmas, Tom.

I only commented because you haven't vomited your usual poison and hatred.

I'm almost proud of you, for a minute or two. Just a weak moment in the spirit of the season... smile.gif
buttershug
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 27 2010, 10:24 PM)
QUOTE (Goofus A. Gallant+)
So, you're not sure where they came from either?


Goofus A. Gallant: I'm "snowed in" in New Jersey and I only commented because I got an email notifying me of this thread and I wanted to make sure that people understood that such quotes weren't coming from the Bible.

Good-bye.

They also didn't come from The Lord of the Rings or Shakespeare either.

Have you found any evidence that the KJV wasn't written by people who were born and raised RC using RC sources of information?
Non-circular evidence that is.
Derek1148
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 27 2010, 10:24 PM)
QUOTE (Goofus A. Gallant+)
So, you're not sure where they came from either?


Goofus A. Gallant: I'm "snowed in" in New Jersey and I only commented because I got an email notifying me of this thread and I wanted to make sure that people understood that such quotes weren't coming from the Bible.

Good-bye.

It was a bad storm. Snowed in here also.
Phosfor
Merkabah is the throne-chariot of God.

Ezekiel’s Wheel is TIME itself.

A wheel inside of a wheel "Ophanim" meaning cycles.

Angel found in the Merkaba is called "Seraphim" (lit. "burning") angels. These angels appear like flashes of fire continuously ascending and descending. These "Seraphim" angels powered the movement of the chariot.

What is our most accurate measurement of time?
ATOMIC CLOCK:
And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his FOUR FACES.

Four living creatures with four faces, four seasons, four parts of a day, four cardinal directions, nature is four dimensional, four rocky planets, four gas planets, most insects have four wings, our heart has four chambers, four nucleobase types in DNA and RNA, four human blood groups, four basic states of matter, four horseman, and four gospels.

And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a BERYL stone.

The atomic number of Beryllium is four.

EZEKIEL’S WHEEL IS TIME!

When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

EZEKIEL’S WHEEL IS TIME!

buttershug
I'm telling you it would be more entertaining if you used The Lord of Rings or Shakespeare.

And just as valid.
Derek1148
QUOTE (buttershug+Dec 28 2010, 08:18 PM)
I'm telling you it would be more entertaining if you used The Lord of Rings or Shakespeare.

And just as valid.

Hey, I liked The Lord of the Rings.
Phosfor
QUOTE (buttershug+Dec 28 2010, 08:18 PM)
I'm telling you it would be more entertaining if you used The Lord of Rings or Shakespeare.

And just as valid.

There is no need to reply if you are unable to format a scholarly response.


The beast represents all living creatures. The twenty four elders represent the hours in a day. The seven spirits of God represent the days of the week, creation itself.

Notice that now in Revelations each beast has six wings instead of four, which also represent the hours in a day.

“After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, and the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, ‘who was, and is, and is to come.”
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

General Relativity predicts a beginning and an end to time.

Douglas Burns Ph.D
Derek1148
"Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?" - Pink Floyd
Phosfor
QUOTE (Derek1148+Dec 28 2010, 09:29 PM)
"Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?" - Pink Floyd

Once again, there is no need to reply if you are unable to format an intellectual response.

The creatures in Ezekiel’s Wheel represent TIME. The past, the present, and the future. How can you deny this?

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, ‘who was, and is, and is to come.”

Douglas Burns Ph.D
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 09:21 PM)
There is no need to reply if you are unable to format a scholarly response.


Follow that advice yourself.

What you do with the Bible can also be done with any big enough body of work.
The Balrog can represent all animals as well if you are willing to stretch things as much as you are.

Any test that can not fail is not a valid test.

and 24 hours in a day is completely arbitrary.
It could have just as easily been 60 or 10 or 100 or 20.
Derek1148
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 09:33 PM)
Once again, there is no need to reply if you are unable to format an intellectual response.

The creatures in Ezekiel’s Wheel represent TIME. The past, the present, and the future. How can you deny this?

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, ‘who was, and is, and is to come.”

Douglas Burns Ph.D

I know who George Burns is. I'm not familiar with Douglas.
Phosfor
QUOTE (buttershug+Dec 28 2010, 09:38 PM)
Follow that advice yourself.

What you do with the Bible can also be done with any big enough body of work.
The Balrog can represent all animals as well if you are willing to stretch things as much as you are.

Any test that can not fail is not a valid test.

and 24 hours in a day is completely arbitrary.
It could have just as easily been 60 or 10 or 100 or 20.

Yes, it could have been another number but it is not.
Coincidental? I think not.

This is just the beginning. I have found many other metaphors that can be linked to great discoveries in science. These clues may lead us to a greater knowledge.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 04:33 PM)
The creatures in Ezekiel’s Wheel represent TIME. The past, the present, and the future. How can you deny this?

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, ‘who was, and is, and is to come.”

QUOTE
For Ulmo bore up Elwing out of the waves, and he gave her the likeness of a great white bird, and upon her breast there shone as a star the Silmaril, as she flew over the water to seek Eärendil her beloved. On a time of night Eärendil at the helm of his ship saw her come towards him, as a white cloud exceeding swift beneath the moon, as a star over the sea moving in strange courses, a pale flame on wings of storm. And it is sung that she fell from the air upon the timbers of Vingilot, in a swoon, nigh unto death for the urgency of her speed, and Eärendil took her to his bosom; but in the morning with marvelling eyes he beheld his wife in her own form beside him with her hair upon his face, and she slept.

From The Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien, humble servant of Eru Ilúvatar

From a literary perspective, this beats the pants off the Bible.
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 09:44 PM)
Yes, it could have been another number but it is not.
Coincidental? I think not.

This is just the beginning. I have found many other metaphors that can be linked to great discoveries in science. These clues may lead us to a greater knowledge.

First; there must be a certain number of "co-incidences", unless there was something to stop them.
If you flip a coin enough times you will get 100 heads in a row.

Second; two human constructs share an overlap and you think that is significant?

You miss the point that your finding the metaphors is not an indication of the Divineness of the Bible it is an indication of YOUR ability to find such metaphors.
If you really tried you could find them in any big enough work.
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 03:44 PM)
Coincidental?

Yes.
orestis
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 05:33 PM)
Once again, there is no need to reply if you are unable to format an intellectual response.

The creatures in Ezekiel’s Wheel represent TIME.  The past, the present, and  the future.  How can you deny this?

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, ‘who was, and is, and is to come.”

Douglas Burns Ph.D


Q: How can you recognise a Christian or Muslim fundamentalist?

A: Whenever questioned or challenged they will quote versus from their respective books.


Q: What is the biggest waste of time for anyone on this beautiful planet?

A: Arguing with a fundamentalist.


Those are powerful lyrics, Derek.
Phosfor
QUOTE (buttershug+Dec 28 2010, 09:59 PM)
First; there must be a certain number of "co-incidences", unless there was something to stop them.
If you flip a coin enough times you  will get 100 heads in a row.

Second; two human constructs share an overlap and you think that is significant?

You miss the point that your finding the metaphors is not an indication of the Divineness of the Bible it is an indication of YOUR ability to find such metaphors.
If you really tried you could find them in any big enough work.

The probability theory is essential to many human activities that involve quantitative analysis of large sets of data. One of the greatest discoveries in physics was the probabilistic nature of physical phenomena at atomic scales.

There are too many scientific links comprised in godly works to be considered purely random. The existence of such technology over 3,500 years ago, and the obviously intelligent way in which it was harnessed and used, might well indicate that the ancient world has not offered up all of its secrets.

According to the Book of Revelation, the Ark is in the Temple of God in Heaven in vision: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the Ark of his Covenant" Rev. 11:19 However, the Second Book of the Maccabees and the Book of Revelation state that the ark is no longer on Earth.
QUOTE
The symbol of God's sacred covenant with his chosen people was, essentially, a Leyden Jar, a device capable of producing thousands of volts of static electricity!  The word electricity is derived from the Greek word for amber; the generation of a static charge by rubbing substances such as amber and wool was documented by Thales of Miletus in 600BC. Amber would be considered as the only substance that could produce static for the next 2,200 years.

In 1938, Dr Wilhelm Knig, a German arch ... ologist appointed director of the National Museum of Iraq, found the controversial Baghdad Batteries' in the museum's collection. These were small clay jars, each of which had an asphalt stopper, through which ran an iron rod surrounded by a copper cylinder. Knig had also come across copper vases that had once been plated with silver, and speculated that the batteries' had been used to accomplish this. Interestingly, the batteries' were dated to roughly 250BC but, rather surprisingly, the vases appeared to date from around 2,500BC and to come from Sumerian sites.

Although the dates differed, these discoveries suggested that the principles of electrochemical reaction were known and used in the process called electrolysis, or electroplating, at least 1,000 years before the Ark and 4,300 years before Volta. (In fact, the electroplating process was not used commercially until the middle of the 19th century.)

Clearly, the existence of these artefacts supports the idea of electricity being used in intelligent and highly developed ways long before we laid claim to its discovery. Perhaps the idea that the Ark of the Covenant was a device capable of storing electricity, to be used intelligently to achieve certain effects, is not quite as unlikely as it first appears.

Anyone who reads the biblical descriptions of the Ark's behaviour would be struck by the details of the deaths of those foolhardy or unfortunate enough to have touched it. In Leviticus X:12, for instance, Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, approach the Ark in the Tabernacle: they "took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord".

Later, in II Samuel VI:67, as David is bringing the Ark to Jerusalem, Uzzah "put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God".

What kind of power could have caused this to happen? Why could some people handle the Ark and live, but not others? Could the power of God the Creator reside in a gold-covered chest, as tradition would have us believe? And, of course, it's rather disconcerting that this divine power should be, on the one hand, so indiscriminate and uncontrollable, and on the other so easily confined.

The entire structure and purpose of the Temple was to create and harness massive charges of static electricity. Everything about it was designed to enhance and amplify this energy to maximum effect, for reasons that we are, perhaps, only too familiar with. Within this structure, the Ark played a crucial role as catalyst, but it was a single component of a larger system; outside of the Temple walls in which it was designed to function, the Ark was of limited use, except, perhaps as a symbol. It is somewhat ironic that so much attention has been focused upon the mystery of the Ark in recent years, when in fact the key to the greatest secret of the ancient world lies in the overlooked, in the Tabernacle in the Wilderness.

Both the Ark and Temple are superbly designed pieces of organic technology that utilise the power of the natural elements, simply and efficiently, for a specific purpose. Everything about the construction and use of this technology is entirely in keeping with what we know and understand about the concepts and realities of the ancient world. There is nothing fantastic or alien about it it is readily understandable in practical terms that most of us are familiar with.”


"And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle". Exodus XL:35.

Douglas Burns Ph.D
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 10:42 PM)

There are too many scientific links comprised in godly works to be considered purely random.

1. What do you base that on? how many would you expect?
2. It is still a matter of your ability to stretch things to fit more so than what is in there.

And please static electricity would have been mysterious to primitive people and would be great material for fiction.

And are you are assuming that the Bible is accurate but haven't demonstrated that.

If you look I bet YOU could find supersonic travel in the Iliad.
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 04:42 PM)
Both the Ark and Temple are superbly designed pieces of organic technology that utilise the power of the natural elements, simply and efficiently, for a specific purpose. Everything about the construction and use of this technology is entirely in keeping with what we know and understand about the concepts and realities of the ancient world. There is nothing fantastic or alien about it it is readily understandable in practical terms that most of us are familiar with.”

Prove it. Build one.
Phosfor
So far it seems that the responding participants have no formal education. It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident. I can only respond to replies, which I deem relevant to the subject matter. Please try to adhere to a more formal interaction.

Thank you,
Douglas Burns Ph.D
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 29 2010, 12:49 AM)
So far it seems that the responding participants have no formal education. It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident. I can only respond to replies, which I deem relevant to the subject matter. Please try to adhere to a more formal interaction.

Thank you,
Douglas Burns Ph.D

But you saying that they are self-evident do not make them self-evident.

And I have found that when someone claims that certain things are self-evident they have very low standards of belief.


Are you even going to try and deny that you have the ability to find things in any work you choose?
That is VERY RELEVANT. If you have that ability it says nothing about the Bible and everything about you.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 07:49 PM)
It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident.

You are an idiot. That much is self-evident.
NymphaeaAlba
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 04:49 PM)
So far it seems that the responding participants have no formal education.  It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident.  I can only respond to replies, which I deem relevant to the subject matter.  Please try to adhere to a more formal interaction. 

Thank you,
Douglas Burns Ph.D

They say the same of the Qur’an. We, (with no formal education), can also comb through the bible, and find many aspects of science that have been proven inaccurate. It is nothing more than a delusion of reference. A delusional, formal education... wacko.gif

Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 06:49 PM)
So far it seems that the responding participants have no formal education. It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident. I can only respond to replies, which I deem relevant to the subject matter. Please try to adhere to a more formal interaction.

Thank you,
Douglas Burns Ph.D

In other words, you have nothing. rolleyes.gif
Derek1148
QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+Dec 29 2010, 01:24 AM)
They say the same of the Qur’an. We, (with no formal education), can also comb through the bible, and find many aspects of science that have been proven inaccurate. It is nothing more than a delusion of reference. A delusional, formal education... wacko.gif

Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

The issue here is not whether you're right or wrong. Obviously, you're right. The issue is why a science forum is entertaining this lunacy.
NymphaeaAlba
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 27 2010, 02:24 PM)
I only commented because I got an email notifying me of this thread and I wanted to make sure that people understood that such quotes weren't coming from the Bible.

Which one of you guys sent him an email? huh.gif
Capracus
I'm curious Doug, to which field of study is your Ph.D related?
buttershug
QUOTE (Capracus+Dec 29 2010, 09:24 AM)
I'm curious Doug, to which field of study is your Ph.D related?

And from what Institution?

Anyone wanna bet we don't get an answer to either?
newguy
QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+)
QUOTE (newguy+)
I only commented because I got an email notifying me of this thread and I wanted to make sure that people understood that such quotes weren't coming from the Bible.


Which one of you guys sent him an email? huh.gif


NymphaeaAlba:

Whenever a new topic is posted in the Creation/Evolution section of this forum, I receive an email from Physforums entitled, "Forum Subscription New Topic Notification". Here is what the email said:

QUOTE
newguy,

Phosfor has just posted a new topic entitled "Ordinances Of Heaven" in forum "Creation / Evolution". The topic can be found here:

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=28742

Please note that if you wish to get email notification of any replies to this topic, you will have to click on the"Track this Topic" link shown on the topic page, or by visiting the link below:

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?act=Track&f=24&t=28742


Am I the only one who receives such notifications? I doubt that I am. Anyhow, I clicked the link on this one because of the title, "Ordinances Of Heaven". Having read Phosfor's comments, I only wanted him to admit the sources of his quotes...something that he's already done. For those quotes that are actually derived from scripture/the Bible, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about. I trust that you've all figured that out for yourselves already. Well, I hope that that clears up things for you.

Take care.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 29 2010, 09:58 AM)
Having read Phosfor's comments, I only wanted him to admit the sources of his quotes...something that he's already done. For those quotes that are actually derived from scripture/the Bible, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about. I trust that you've all figured that out for yourselves already. Well, I hope that that clears up things for you.

I don't see how inclusion in the Bible would lend any degree of legitimacy whatsoever to the quotes in question.
buttershug
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 29 2010, 02:58 PM)

Am I the only one who receives such notifications? I doubt that I am. Anyhow, I clicked the link on this one because of the title, "Ordinances Of Heaven". Having read Phosfor's comments, I only wanted him to admit the sources of his quotes...something that he's already done. For those quotes that are actually derived from scripture/the Bible, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about. I trust that you've all figured that out for yourselves already. Well, I hope that that clears up things for you.

Take care.

He is also not quoting from The Lord of the Rings or Shakespeare.
Why would the Bible be special?
Especially a version written by people born and raised RC using RC sources.
NymphaeaAlba
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 29 2010, 06:58 AM)
For those quotes that are actually derived from scripture/the Bible, he has no idea whatsoever what he is talking about.  I trust that you've all figured that out for yourselves already.  Well, I hope that that clears up things for you.


Newguy,

It sounds like everyone had a white Christmas except for me. I’m curious and you’re snowed in, so tell me. Many have claimed that Ezekiel’s Wheels is describing a UFO. What is your interpretation of Ezekiel’s Wheels?

NA
newguy
QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba+)
IIt sounds like everyone had a white Christmas except for me.  ’m curious and you’re snowed in, so tell me.  Many have claimed that Ezekiel’s Wheels is describing a UFO. What is your interpretation of Ezekiel’s Wheels?


NymphaeaAlba: I'm no longer snowed in and I have no intention of returning to this forum at this time. I made my brief contribution and I'll be leaving now. I'll briefly address your question out of courtesy, but, if you desire further dialogue, then you'll need to contact me either via PM or email. In other words, this will be my last post on this thread. Anyhow, my brief response is as follows:

Although the wheels were part of a "Flying Object", I see no point in calling it an "Unidentified Flying Object". In other words, if we compare what Ezekiel saw with other verses of scripture that describe similar things, then I believe that it is not really "Unidentifiable".

You can read about the wheels primarily in Ezekiel chapters 1 and 10. You will notice that the wheels don't operate separately from/independently of the four living creatures that are full of eyes and have the faces of a lion, a calf, a man and an eagle and these creatures are plainly identified as cherubim. In these chapters, you'll also find references to such things as a throne, lightnings, a rainbow, etc., etc. If you compare what you read here with what is described in Revelation chapter 4, then you should notice that they're both describing the same exact things. Also, there are several verses in scripture that describe such things as "the chariots of God" and the Lord riding upon a cherub. With these things in mind (and others), it certainly seems as if Ezekiel was describing some sort of cherubic chariot upon which the Lord rode.

That is my short answer. Like I said, I really have no desire to post here, so please contact me privately if you have any further questions.

Thanks.

P.S. I don't celebrate Christmas.
Phosfor
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 29 2010, 10:26 PM)
With these things in mind (and others), it certainly seems as if Ezekiel was describing some sort of cherubic chariot upon which the Lord rode.


Why would our lord need to ride upon a cherubic chariot? Read the passage carefully. It is describing TIME itself. Think about it!

Marcus Vitruvius, a Roman engineer figured out the water cycle during 30 B.C. and it wasn’t fully understood until the 1600s. However, early biblical descriptions match contemporary science perfectly.

Job 26:8
"He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight"

Job 36:27-28.
"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind"

Ecclesiastes 1:6-7
"The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again".

D.B.
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 02:05 AM)
Marcus Vitruvius, a Roman engineer figured out the water cycle during 30 B.C. and it wasn’t fully understood until the 1600s. However, early biblical descriptions match contemporary science perfectly.

D.B.
Could this post be a reference to your Ph.D.?
Might you be Douglas A. Burns, Ph.D., Hydrologist?
http://www.cof.orst.edu/cof/fe/watershd/burns.php
Derek1148
QUOTE (newguy+Dec 29 2010, 10:26 PM)
P.S. I don't celebrate Christmas.

Okay dammit, I want my feedback back.
Phosfor
Do any of you muddlers have any scientific familiarity? How could these things have been known? Is there not one of you who can answer?
fredinjeddah
It seems to me, that religeon is truly in dire straits. I have noticed more and more religeous folk (mainly christian) trying to prove that the bible is compatible , if not directly responsible for scientific theory. It is clear that these religeous folk are extremely threatened by the rise of and overwhelming "success" of science and main stream man's continued acceptance of science over religeon.

Mr Burns (Ph D) seems to be one of those folks. From this thread, it seems he is not opening up the issue for debate, but rather telling us all the way it is, with some serious (religeous) conviction.

I have maintained before, that I believe there could be interesting astrological references hidden in ancient texts, not because of a religeous/godly reason, but purely because The ancient cultures of the world seemed to study the stars so intensly, and they made quite remarkable discoveries, considering the equipment they had.

Ultimately , declaring a string of text in the bible (no matter the origin) to be defining a currently accepted scientific theory, does not prove the bible to be true or god to exist, which lets face it, is what people like Mr Burns is trying to do. The biblical references are cryptic and open to interpretation (Mr Burns has a good imagination) and as many posters have said, with a big enough body of work, we can all start declaring simmilarities and postulate what the authors were saying.

Personally, the references given by Mr Burns, have no link to the scientific theory he attaches them to, unless you decipher using Mr Burns secret code (delussion). As NA pointed out, The Quaran does the same thing and if one went through that book, we could also pluck random statements to support current scientific theory. Could it be that The Quaran is the true book Mr Burns, and your bible not so much? And not to look toward Lord of The Rings (as it is still a young wine) if one considers Mayan scripts, Egyptian, Summarian etc we could find texts that also support current scientific theory.

Religeon seems to have had its day, and logic, sanity and reality seem to be on the rise. Only the fanatics are trying to marry the two together, which is kinda sad but certainly entertaining.

PS: Does putting a Ph D behind your name , make you seem more authentic, less religeous, more clever, a man of science?
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 02:05 AM)
Ecclesiastes 1:6-7
"The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again".

This is a misnomer. Not all streams flow into the sea. Many flow into natural lakes for example.

Wikipedia : River flow

The sea is never full, means what? We certainly know the sea level is on the rise. What would full be? Where is the measuring yard?

Mr Burns, you are looking to prove your agenda without considering actual science, in my humble opinion. Do it celverly or not at all!
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 02:05 AM)
Job 26:8
"He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight"

Ummmm yes they do burst, I am currently witnessing such an event right now. A cloud burst. Not consistant with science!
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 07:41 AM)
Do any of you muddlers have any scientific familiarity? How could these things have been known? Is there not one of you who can answer?

how could it be known that water evaporates and that rain is water?

And check out the Iliad, there is lots of supersonic travel. How did Homer know that was possible?

And since you have a PHD and all I'm sure I don't have to explain the fallacy of argument from ignorance.

Or that appeal to authority includes ones honorifics one has obtained.

Some geneticists were searching for matching patterns. They wrote programs to find such. but with limited success, then they had a brainstorm. They turned it into a game.
So far the vox populi has found several matching patterns that their computers could not.

You Mr. Burns should find a copy of that program and play it. You have a great ability at matching patterns.
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 29 2010, 12:49 AM)
It is not necessary to prove things, which are self-evident.
Thank you,
Douglas Burns Ph.D

So it is neccesary to prove that god exists, because god is not self evident?

If science had to follow your theory that it is not neccesary to prove something that is self evident, science would have died a long time ago. The reason it is neccesary to prove something, despite it being self evident, is that people differ in their belief of what is and is not self evident. You and I being a good example of that.

Some people thought the earth was flat, and to them it was self evident, but to others it was not self evident at all. To those others, they had to prove otherwise, and just as well they did. Aristotle was one of those, who noted a circular shadow on the moon during an eclipse. To him it seemed self evident that the earth was round, but it still had to proved through science.

You are undoubtedly not a man of science.....and that to me seems self evident.
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 07:56 PM)
Four living creatures with four faces, four seasons, four parts of a day, four cardinal directions, nature is four dimensional, four rocky planets, four gas planets, most insects have four wings, our heart has four chambers, four nucleobase types in DNA and RNA, four human blood groups, four basic states of matter, four horseman, and four gospels.

Wow, talk about looking for patterns.

QUOTE
four rocky planets, four gas planets
What about our sun? What about our dwarf planets are they also in fours? What about the moons of our other planets, do they all contrive to your foursomeness?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
four rocky planets, four gas planets
What about our sun? What about our dwarf planets are they also in fours? What about the moons of our other planets, do they all contrive to your foursomeness?

most insects have four wings
What does this mean? The other insects are the devils work? What about the birds who only have two wings....oh they also have two legs, so that counts toward the foursomness theory. What about earthworms, they have none of these four pattern thingys.

QUOTE
four human blood groups
Really? "The International Society of Blood Transfusion (ISBT) currently recognises 30 major blood group systems (including the ABO and Rh systems)" Wikipedia blood groups

This is what is termed 'cherry picking"

As for 4 gospels, it is commonly known, that there were more gospels written, just not included in the bible.

PS: You fail to realise, that those that wrote what makes up the bible, were also looking for patterns. This is the foundation of most custom. There have always been 4 seasons which are easily observable, so to link so much to four is a common human trait, and nothing religeously ominous.
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 28 2010, 10:42 PM)
The symbol of God's sacred covenant with his chosen people was, essentially, a Leyden Jar, a device capable of producing thousands of volts of static electricity! The word electricity is derived from the Greek word for amber; the generation of a static charge by rubbing substances such as amber and wool was documented by Thales of Miletus in 600BC. Amber would be considered as the only substance that could produce static for the next 2,200 years.

May I ask where you got your quote from. Its always polite to include a reference to the original author.
Phosfor
QUOTE ( fredinjeddah+)
Mr Burns (Ph D) seems to be one of those folks. From this thread, it seems he is not opening up the issue for debate, but rather telling us all the way it is, with some serious (religeous) conviction.

I have maintained before, that I believe there could be interesting astrological references hidden in ancient texts, not because of a religeous/godly reason, but purely because The ancient cultures of the world seemed to study the stars so intensly, and they made quite remarkable discoveries, considering the equipment they had.

Some people thought the earth was flat, and to them it was self evident, but to others it was not self evident at all. To those others, they had to prove otherwise, and just as well they did. Aristotle was one of those, who noted a circular shadow on the moon during an eclipse. To him it seemed self evident that the earth was round, but it still had to proved through science.

I have maintained before, that I believe there could be interesting astrological references hidden in ancient texts, not because of a religeous/godly reason, but purely because The ancient cultures of the world seemed to study the stars so intensly, and they made quite remarkable discoveries, considering the equipment they had.

What about our sun? What about our dwarf planets are they also in fours? What about the moons of our other planets, do they all contrive to your foursomeness?


I am knowledgeable in all areas of physics, and with my religious convictions, I was fortunately capable of noticing similarities between the two. I am trying to share something of value and I’m merely stating that I believe I have found a guide with this method. What is the definition of BOUND, sir? In physics, a bound state is a composite of two or more building blocks (particles or bodies) that behaves as a single object.

ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD:

Job 38:19-20
Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, that thou shouldest take it to the BOUND thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

We lost a great deal of ancient knowledge with the destruction of the Ancient Library of Alexandra. It was established in 288 B.C. and a meeting place for the most eminent minds. It contained over 700,000 scrolls. Aristarchus, the first to proclaim that the earth revolves around the sun, Hipparchus, the first to measure the solar year with six and a half minutes accuracy, Eratosthenes, the first to measure the circumference of the earth, Euclid, who wrote the elements of geometry, and Archimedes, the greatest mathematician of the Ancient World. I too, believe that there could be interesting astrological references hidden in ancient texts. This is exactly what I've spent most of my life working on.

As far as the number four is concerned, the Galilean moons, which are the ones readily visible from Earth are FOUR of Jupiter's moons.

How would they have known that the stars and planets are made of different elements?

1 Corinthians 15:41
"The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 10:45 AM)
1 Corinthians 15:41
"The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor."

So you decide to interpret the meaning of "one kind of splendour" to mean "elements". This is not science for sure , but it is just bad interpretation.

The sun is made up of multiple elements, some rare and some existant on earth.

Re-think your theory.
Phosfor
QUOTE (fredinjeddah+Dec 30 2010, 11:00 AM)
So you decide to interpret the meaning of "one kind of splendour" to mean "elements". This is not science for sure , but it is just bad interpretation.

The sun is made up of multiple elements, some rare and some existant on earth.

Re-think your theory.

How do we determine the elements? From their splendor, the light, coloring, etc.

I assumed that a few participants would know a little about physics.
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 11:07 AM)
How do we determine the elements? From their splendor, the light, coloring, etc.

I assumed that a few participants would know a little about physics.

I am unsure what your qualifications are , but your alleged fammiliarity with physics is negated by your strong desire to link the bible to science.

4000 years ago, stars were observed to be different in size and color with the naked eye. I have never seen any scientific reference to "the splendour" of stars being that which defines the make up of their elements.

The word "splendour" is one interpretation of the biblical texts, the other I can recall is "glory". The original text is ambigous and does not empirically declare what it is referring to (like so much in the bible) that anyone can translate the original into a dozen variables which people like yourself can then translate/interpret to mean what you want it to mean.

If you truly are a logical person interested in physics, you would see how this is a fair statement for me to make. Yours is a belief, which you are entitled to, but it has nothing to do with science.

Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 03:57 PM)
I firmly believe that the bible contains metaphors that can lead us to the correct theories in science.

Scientists have now discovered that over a thousand years before Pythagoras was calculating the length of a hypotenuse, sophisticated scribes in Mesopotamia were working with the same theory to calculate the area of their farmland. These tablets bear evidence of practical as well as more advanced theoretical math and show just how sophisticated the ancient Babylonians were with numbers -- more than a millennium before Pythagoras and Euclid were doing the same in ancient Greece.
In using this quote lifted from this CNN article; Pythagoras, a math genius? Not by Babylonian standards, you seem to imply that the Babylonians somehow acquired their knowledge of mathematics by way of Biblical metaphor. Can you please explain what association these polytheistic Babylonians had with Hebrew scriptures that were written some seven centuries later?

Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 09:57 AM)
I firmly believe that the bible contains metaphors that can lead us to the correct theories in science.

My book will help you discover the SECRETS that have been kept hidden for thousands of years.  It will remove all doubt and shine light into darkness.  You will gain wisdom and understanding.  You will learn the essence of our universe, the nature of God.

Except you're working backwards. You are finding biblical pasages that (in your interpretation) are metaphors for known science facts. And many of them are rather tenuous.

Get back with us when you have some new insight to offer... And when you aren't trying to sell us a book.
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 11:07 AM)
How do we determine the elements? From their splendor, the light, coloring, etc.

I assumed that a few participants would know a little about physics.

But phsyics is not the issue here.
Pattern matching is.

You are doing pattern matching not science.

And you are doing conclusion first thinking.
That is the opposite of science where one must be willing to give up ones conclusions.
And one must search for why one is wrong.
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 27 2010, 03:57 PM)
In my latest book you will discover how biblical clues can lead us to glimpses of the divine rules that govern the universe.
How about a sample of an earlier book.

Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 30 2010, 05:07 AM)
I assumed that a few participants would know a little about physics.

That's ironic coming from a man who quotes Fred A Wolf. rolleyes.gif
flyingbuttressman
It's almost tragic that no argument can be made in favor of god's existence without resorting to some logical fallacy. Every book on Christian apologetics that I have read resorts to the same tactics of bare assertion fallacies and false dilemmas. The best arguments I've heard only work on a pure emotional level.

Does anyone here have an argument for god that works logically?
AlexG
QUOTE
I am knowledgeable in all areas of physics,


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

You have yet to demonstrate that in any way.
buttershug
QUOTE (AlexG+Dec 30 2010, 08:05 PM)

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

You have yet to demonstrate that in any way.

I don't see how that would be relevant.
In fact I would say that the more someone knows physics, the more easily they can fall into the trap he's in.
Phosfor
Do you think before you post or do you just let the stupidity flow out of you?

In order to account for the observations explained by inflation, string theory must have the three spatial dimensions plus dimensions that are curled up, but why would the four spacetime dimensions that we can observe be this size, and the rest so small that we cannot even observe them?

Our theories must be useful and accurate. Scientists line up on one side or the other, depending on the times. Proper experiments have lead to a zigzag effect with theorists. In most situations they may have nothing more than a gut feeling for the truth, which guides them. All the great thinkers are men of the past and this is where I have searched for truth.

If you would just give me the opportunity to explain my theory, you might come to realize that what I’m proposing is not farfetched. The current teachings have made too many mistakes, which they are not willing to rectify, and in the process have constricted the imagination of the youngest and brightest minds.

The current theories still contain many unsolved problems.

QUOTE
In the mid-1990s, observations of globular clusters appeared to be inconsistent with the Big Bang. Computer simulations that matched the observations of the stellar populations of globular clusters suggested that they were about 15 billion years old, which conflicted with the 13.7 billion year age of the Universe. This issue was generally resolved in the late 1990s when new computer simulations, which included the effects of mass loss due to stellar winds, indicated a much younger age for globular clusters.  There still remain some questions as to how accurately the ages of the clusters are measured, but it is clear that these objects are some of the oldest in the Universe.

The best current model of the Big Bang, dark energy is explained by the presence of a cosmological constant in the general theory of relativity. However, the size of the constant that properly explains dark energy is surprisingly small relative to naive estimates based on ideas about quantum gravity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Feat...es_and_problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geon_(physics)

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/acm/
Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE
If you would just give me the opportunity to explain my theory, you might come to realize that what I’m proposing is not farfetched.

Have you even tried to state any theory? If you have something to present, then get on with it.
buttershug
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 31 2010, 12:17 AM)
The current teachings have made too many mistakes, which they are not willing to rectify, and in the process have constricted the imagination of the youngest and brightest minds.

The current theories still contain many unsolved problems.


Based on what criteria?

The best isn't perfect therefore it's not good enough?
If you have something better than Big Bang then present it.
But it has to explain things better than BB does.

And if something doesn't live up to a person's expectations I've found often the problem is that person's expectations.
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 31 2010, 12:17 AM)
If you would just give me the opportunity to explain my theory, you might come to realize that what I’m proposing is not farfetched.  The current teachings have made too many mistakes, which they are not willing to rectify, and in the process have constricted the imagination of the youngest and brightest minds.

The current theories still contain many unsolved problems.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Feat...es_and_problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geon_(physics)

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/acm/
And you propose to rectify the perceived inadequacies of these theories by replacing scientific inquiry with a process of scriptural divination?
fredinjeddah
QUOTE (Phosfor+Dec 31 2010, 12:17 AM)
Do you think before you post or do you just let the stupidity flow out of you?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Feat...es_and_problems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geon_(physics)

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/acm/

Thinking is not the criteria required, intelligent thought is. You think about your theory, which needs to fit a certain shape to suit your book design, but all you are doing, is placing your mind in a box without accepting you could be wrong entirely.

QUOTE
In order to account for the observations explained by inflation, string theory must have the three spatial dimensions plus dimensions that are curled up, but why would the four spacetime dimensions that we can observe be this size, and the rest so small that we cannot even observe them?
Do you have the answer to this question, which I must admit, I do not understand or does the bible answer this question?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
In order to account for the observations explained by inflation, string theory must have the three spatial dimensions plus dimensions that are curled up, but why would the four spacetime dimensions that we can observe be this size, and the rest so small that we cannot even observe them?
Do you have the answer to this question, which I must admit, I do not understand or does the bible answer this question?

Our theories must be useful and accurate.  Scientists line up on one side or the other, depending on the times.  Proper experiments have lead to a zigzag effect with theorists.  In most situations they may have nothing more than a gut feeling for the truth, which guides them.  All the great thinkers are men of the past and this is where I have searched for truth.
Theories are only accurate once enough empirical evidence has been gathered and tested, and even then it is most times continuosly challenged. This is the scientific method. Scientists are always on one side or another regardless of "The Times". This is why science is the best method for determining the truth. The scientific method allows open challenges to accepted theory on condition the challenger can prove their alternative theory. Almost the exact opposite of the religeous method wich dictates you shall accept it this way and no other.

"All the great thinkers are men of the past". What an assenine statement that makes no sense. First off, there have been many woman who have made amazing discoveries in the past, and those individuals from the past, were once in their own present. Todays scientists are no less intellectual or less forward thinking than the individuals from the past. The only difference is, that you probably do not understand the significance of current discoveries now, but are a person who only sees it in retrospect.

Searching for truth is great, and I certainly think their are great wisdoms from "men of the past" but to discount current science and theory, is naive in my opinion.

QUOTE
If you would just give me the opportunity to explain my theory, you might come to realize that what I’m proposing is not farfetched.
So far you have not seemed to convince one person on this forum. Maybe the fault lies with you?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
If you would just give me the opportunity to explain my theory, you might come to realize that what I’m proposing is not farfetched.
So far you have not seemed to convince one person on this forum. Maybe the fault lies with you?

The current teachings have made too many mistakes, which they are not willing to rectify, and in the process have constricted the imagination of the youngest and brightest minds.
This statement truly applies to biblical teachings in my opinion.

QUOTE
The current theories still contain many unsolved problems.
Talk about a broad brush statement. Which theories are you referring to....ALL OF THEM? If you understand physics as you say, you will know that very often, solving one problem only creates a number of other problems which then need to be resolved. This statement clearly indicates you are an individual that believes there is a final answer to everything. This is because of your religeous conviction. You have been taught there is a god and he is the answer to everything. You assume science works the same way, but it doesn't. Science is an open ended process. There is never a final complete theory that no one is allowed to challenge or test.

You are not qualified to write this book you are referring to for one very clear reason. You are religeous. You are therefore naturally biased and from your postings it is clear that you see things in the bible that you want to see. If you were more balanced and critical in your approach (you probably wouldn't bother with the book) you would be respected more and people would take what you write more seriously.

I have often thought exactly the way you think about ancient writings, and for me it would be great if someone did the excercise you are proposing to do, but it would need to be someone who has no fear of what the result would be, even if it contradicted their own belief. You are clearly not that person. That is sad!
Phosfor
Genesis 6:1-4

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


“The study uncovered the first solid genetic evidence that "modern" humans—or Homo sapiens—interbred with their Neanderthal neighbors, who mysteriously died out about 30,000 years ago.”

National Geographic
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Jan 21 2011, 05:48 AM)
Genesis 6:1-4

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


“The study uncovered the first solid genetic evidence that "modern" humans—or Homo sapiens—interbred with their Neanderthal neighbors, who mysteriously died out about 30,000 years ago.”

National Geographic
QUOTE
The Neandertals were relatively short and stocky compared to some other archaic humans and modern Europeans.  Adult male Neandertals averaged 5 feet 5 inches tall (164 cm.) and 143 pounds (65 kg).  Females averaged 5 feet 1 inch tall (155 cm) and 119 pounds (54 kg). 
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_2.htm
Not exactly a convincing image of a giant.
Phosfor
“This subject also relates to the etymology and meaning of the phrase sons of God.
"Nephilim" (נְפִילִים) probably derives from the Hebrew root npl (נָפַל), "to fall" which also includes "to cause to fall" and "to kill, to ruin". The Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon gives the meaning as "giants" Robert Baker Girdlestone argued the word comes from the Hiphil causative stem. Adam Clarke took it as passive, "fallen", "apostates". Ronald Hendel states that it is a passive form "ones who have fallen", equivalent grammatically to paqid "one who is appointed" (i.e. overseer), asir, "one who is bound", (i.e. prisoner) etc.”

Nephilim in the Hebrew Bible
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Jan 21 2011, 05:48 AM)
Genesis 6:1-4

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
This period in Genesis dates to around 4500 years ago. How does this square with the disappearance of neanderthals some 15-25k years earlier? Will you rationalize this by claiming that Biblical ages are metaphoric analogs of geologic time?
dhcracker
QUOTE (Capracus+Jan 21 2011, 06:52 AM)
This period in Genesis dates to around 4500 years ago. How does this square with the disappearance of neanderthals some 15-25k years earlier? Will you rationalize this by claiming that Biblical ages are metaphoric analogs of geologic time?

Its just like the old Greek myths of the Son of Zeus, the demigods. Only here God doesn't do it his sons do it. Notice it says even after they became mighty men, men of renown... basically they are saying famous people that do great things might be of God's lineage. They do not practice that today, but I bet you ancient Israelites did or this passage wouldn't be here at all. This is just there version of demigods.
boit
Eagerly awaiting the science content audit of this thread. Do you think it will be locked? smile.gif
Phosfor
QUOTE (boit+Mar 6 2011, 08:37 PM)
Eagerly awaiting the science content audit of this thread. Do you think it will be locked? smile.gif

There is not one accepted scientific theory on the origin of life, until there is, why not audit your own pie hole? If matter and energy cannot be created, where did the universe come from? It couldn’t have came from nothing because it can’t be created. The big bang theory implies that it has a beginning and an end. Therefore, you cannot say it always existed. God is outside of our dimensions. God always existed, no beginning, or end.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Phosfor+Mar 7 2011, 09:33 AM)
God is outside of our dimensions. God always existed, no beginning, or end.

Got any evidence?
Capracus
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Mar 7 2011, 02:41 PM)
Got any evidence?

Because my Bible tells me so.
Capracus
QUOTE (Phosfor+Mar 7 2011, 02:33 PM)
The big bang theory implies that it has a beginning and an end.
All the BBT implies is that an apparent process began some 14 billion years ago, it does not define the start of that process as the the beginning of all existence, only the existence we have awareness of. The hand, the webbed foot or blowing dust behind the process still remains a matter of speculation.
orestis
QUOTE (Phosfor+Mar 7 2011, 10:33 AM)
There is not one accepted scientific theory on the origin of life, until there is, why not audit your own pie hole?  If matter and energy cannot be created, where did the universe come from?  It couldn’t have came from nothing because it can’t be created.  The big bang theory implies that it has a beginning and an end.  Therefore, you cannot say it always existed. God is outside of our dimensions.  God always existed, no beginning, or end.



Phfosfor-

Do you want to know if you have some kind of divine truth? Here it is. You don't get dragged into saying *** like "audit your pie hole."

Answer a question that has been asked to many people like you before on this site.

If you have found an amazing contact with something exquisitely beautiful, why don't you just enjoy it? If asked why you are so happy, go ahead and explain.

But you haven't been asked. You came here wanting to reap some emotional Messiah reward.

It ain't going to happen. You haven't said anything that has stopped people in their tracks and made them wonder.

You will have to ply your bullshit with people dumber then you are to reap that Messiah reward.

Goofus A Gallant
QUOTE (Phosfor+Mar 7 2011, 08:33 AM)
The big bang theory implies that it has a beginning and an end.

Does it?

Do you also believe the music stops everytime the sine wave crosses the X axis?
synthsin75
QUOTE (Phosfor+Mar 7 2011, 08:33 AM)
If matter and energy cannot be created, where did the universe come from?  It couldn’t have came from nothing because it can’t be created. The big bang theory implies that it has a beginning and an end. Therefore, you cannot say it always existed. God is outside of our dimensions. God always existed, no beginning, or end.

Yes, according to inflation, it can come from nothing. This says that the total energy/matter will always equal zero. So technically, nothing still exists, and we can say that it has always existed. So by your definition, nothing is God.
rpenner
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...A12&version=KJV

QUOTE (Titus 1:12-13+)
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.


So according to the Bible
1) A Cretian says all Cretians are always liars.
2) This Cretian tells the truth.
Phosfor
QUOTE (rpenner+Mar 10 2011, 06:36 AM)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...A12&version=KJV

QUOTE (Titus 1:12-13+)
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.


So according to the Bible
1) A Cretian says all Cretians are always liars.
2) This Cretian tells the truth.

ZFC
NymphaeaAlba
“It is not what you do not know that will get you. It is what you do know that aint true.”...wink.gif
newguy
QUOTE (rpenner+)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...A12&version=KJV

QUOTE (Titus 1:12-13)
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.



So according to the Bible
1) A Cretian says all Cretians are always liars.
2) This Cretian tells the truth.
Phosfor
QUOTE (newguy+Mar 11 2011, 01:04 AM)
QUOTE (rpenner+)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...A12&version=KJV

QUOTE (Titus 1:12-13)
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.



So according to the Bible
1) A Cretian says all Cretians are always liars.
2) This Cretian tells the truth.
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