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codezero
http://www.physorg.com/news106397085.html

Sure the general public remains largely ignorant of what is physically possible and what isn"t, this is what keeps physicists employed, because it is not in their day to day interest to really find out if a bus can clear a 50 foot gap in a freeway, thank goodness.

On the other side of this coin is the inspiration that completely fictional devices gives to those who are inquisitive and do want to know more. Look at all the technology that was born out of the awe inspired viewers of Star Trek and James Bond.
Sik
You completely missed the point of this article.
lengould
QUOTE (article+)
Because he, like many scientists across the United States, is worried that if science and math education doesn’t improve, society will pay the price.


But isn't society already "paying the price?" eg. by valuing the contributions of some expert stock market manipulater (read typical CEO) 100+ times higher than any staff physicist, society is definitely sending a very clear signal to all high-school students. The students may be scientifically illiterate (in my opinion it's even worse than the article describes) but they're not stupid. They can see the writing (and for the present at least, they can still read it).
Doug Huffman
Read Paul R. Gross and Norman Levitt, Higher Supersition and Flight from Science and Reason. Heck, read Alan Sokal, Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity (Social Text).
Andy Ringsmuth
Well, if that school bus on I-35W in Minneapolis HAD been going 75 mph and tried to jump the bridge, it would have been kinda bad. Thankfully it was going like 20 instead, along with all the other cars.

But even so, Speed is still a good movie.
sik_praiser
"Speed" was a good movie? you completely missed the point of the article. lol!
Cory
It's frustrating to see how many people blindly believe what they see on television. However, that's why the call it the "boob tube", and not the "educational tube".
Perhaps more frustrating is that I went to UCF, and got a civil engineering degree. I can speak first hand about some of the students complete lack of basic physics understanding.
Guest_Brian
QUOTE (codezero+Aug 15 2007, 04:47 PM)
Look at all the technology that was born out of the awe inspired viewers of Star Trek and James Bond.

Are you serious? Really?! Like they printed in the paper we live in luxury and comfort due to the advances made largely during the space race. But it didn't end there, the science involved in space exploration has afforded us many great and wonderful things over the years. It is sad to see science being shrugged off by the younger generations. If this continues we will lose our technical edge and we will fall behind the rest of the world. Actually it is already happening, but it's too subtle for many to notice. Its sad to think that we are, in effect, resting on our biggest scientific and technological achievement, putting a man on the moon, and that happened over 40 years ago.
Neal S
While I am a fan of movies, I always get annoyed with screwy physics in movies unless it is explained somehow (like in the Matrix). One of my favorite bad physics moments was in Armageddon when they started spinning the Mir to give it gravity. I argued with other students that Mir didn't have the proper design so most parts of the station would not have any gravity, but no one would listen. ha ha.

In fact, in my High School physics class, the teacher brought in a copy of Speed, and put a diagram of the bus jump on the board, and asked us if it was possible. He even gave the freeway a little help and put the landing portion 5 feet lower than the start. And it was impossible! Some of the students actually did look surprised!
moi
I suppose "Speed" being so popular, in the end sombody smart enough will eventually try the bus jump thing. Don't we all believe in vampires?
I believe that the public these movies adresses is to dumm to understand more, so if the movie will be too realistic people will not understand and thus not enjoy. On the other hand, maybe directing and science are oposite things.
mikiwud
I would have thought that someone would have pointed out the misleading science in "The Day After" and "An Inconvenient Truth".
These seem to be misleading not only students but also scientists who should know better.
KOKO
Well you see athletes getting paid millions, you see actors get paid millions but you don't see any scientist get paid that much. Soon when real shortage of scientifically qualified workforce becomes evident the pays will rise and more and more people will take interest in this. It's market oriented society, what is needed on the market dictates what will be produced.
OZGuy
There's a comment from a movie, you name the movie if it's important to you, I really don't care

"At some point science becomes indistinguishable from magic."

I think we have kids who believe we are at the point of "magic" where new inventions and theories are instantly available and no-one really has to spend years on theories and those that do are boring.

When you start rewarding scientsists comparable to Golf/Baseball/Basketball players etc you "MAY" convince them that science is a career not an option in Wal-Mart.

Meantime sci-fi is a great escapism but doesn't substitute for education.
Krug
Yes, absolutely all the blame can be laid at the foot of the movie industry. Before movies people understood physics. Those evil movies (and don't forget video games) have confused people who would normally understand the "real way angular momentum works", if only they hadn't seen an almost 30 year old film.

Doh! Please understand I mean no slight to Professor Efthimiou, he seems to be someone sincere about helping students better understand physic's. However, when it comes to education, he is in a very small minority (at least in the US). Universities in the US have two primary goals; sports and research (in that order). Teaching undergrads isn't valued. This shows up in drop-out and failure rates. Most US Universities show between 30-40 percent of entering undergraduates not being granted degree's six years after entry (feel free to check the Freshman Retention & Graduation Rates at your favorite institution, it may surprise you). The 'experts' who teach the teachers are failing to show results 30 to 40 percent of the time (clearly the students fault, right?). My guess is that if we started rewarding college teachers comparable to sports stars we'd have an awful lot of out of work college professors. We might expect them to start actually teaching, rather than just walk around complaining how somebody else's lab is bigger or the idiots giving government grants don't appreciate her research or how she has to be bothered with all those d*mn undergrads. People pay for sports because they feel they get something from it (the value equals or exceeds the cost). Universities scramble for money ... think about it.

If you want to improve science education (or education in general), then we need to start valuing the teachers (not the researchers). Universities need to start seeing undergraduates as a resources to be nurtured rather than insects to be exterminated (so they can get on with the important sporting and research events).

If you want to change education, start by changing the educators, not finding scapegoats.

Before you ask yes I have a degree in science (BS of VT ... as school I would only recommend to my worst enemy). I also took a graduate class at NCSU (which provided another very negative experience ... it was a distance education class and on the first day the professor said we didn't need a book, because he had all the needed books on reserve at the campus library ... he's the smart one, I'm the dumb one. grrrrr). I concluded that for the time and money I'm much much better off at the public library or even on the Internet (the people are nicer and the information more current). So you guys go right on whining about how stupid the public is, just don't stop to ask why ... it's easier to blame it on TV.

kws
QUOTE (OZGuy+Aug 16 2007, 11:03 AM)
When you start rewarding scientsists comparable to Golf/Baseball/Basketball players etc you "MAY" convince them that science is a career not an option in Wal-Mart.

we need more scientists than professional athletes, so that's just not cost effective. It would be better to lower the salary of the athlete to the level of the scientist. However, I don't think that these thugs deserve even that.
FC
It's very simple: Professional athletes and filmmakers entertain billions of people. Physicists mostly don't even entertain other physicists. Unless you can attract an audience with brilliance (e.g. Newton, Einstein) and/or showmanship (e.g. Feynman, Dyson), don't expect to make much money.
perry
When I was around 10, my buddies and I would point out all the impossibilities of the Loony Toons as we watched:

"Man, your head doesn't go into the shape of a frying pan when you get hit over the head with one."

"Oh, like the coyote doesn't fall until he looks down."

"Geez, if the hunter shoots the duck in the face with a shotgun from a foot away, it does more than make his beak go to the back of his head - it kills him."

I didn't know at the time that we should have published a paper with our observations. We kind of figured it was pretty obvious.
Bruce Lagasse
"At some point science becomes indistinguishable from magic."

This is due to Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote many years ago, that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." This has become known as Clarke's First (possibly Second) Law.
Guest_Harry
Anyone else notice the good professors base their article on anecdotal, subjective evidence-----what they've noted from interaction with a few of their students-----instead of objective, verifiable data, and then commit the classic "correlation means causation" error?

If they had submitted a paper on, say, quantum mechanics with such "data" and reasong, it would've been laughed at instead of published. So why was this one published?

We can only speculate, but I strongly suspect it had a lot to do with income envy (as exemplified by all the "movies stars and athletes make too much money!" comments here) and the need to feel superior to those trashy proles who actually enjoy such movies.
Suddenend
There are tens of thousands of athletes and actors around the world, who incidentally are as dedicated to their occupations as are their science counterparts, who earn pittances compared to a graduate professor of physics. Those among them who earn the huge salaries are in a very small minority and generally are, within their fields of expertise, the most talented and therefore the most sought after individuals.

The same rule applies to any field of human endeavour. Who among the Physics community could claim to possess the natural talent and skills of say Einstein, Kepler, Rutherford, Newton, Dirac etc., etc. Few, if any, of the aforementioned suffered a life of poverty following the revelation of their genius to their peers.

If those bemoaning the drop in the number and quality of students studying science would just get off their collective butts and do what the sports and performing arts communities have done to promote themselves, then maybe the brightest kids out there would begin to see science as sexy and sign up for the courses. Those kids may then go on to produce the next breakthroughs or become the kind of teachers who recognize and nurture those elusive geniuses that are currently being overlooked by an education system more concerned with attracting sponsorship money than academic excellence.

The real problem, in the US specifically, is the lack of a comprehensive public school system, whose sole aim is to educate the entire populace to at least a high school standard. Relying on commerce to provide the funds to teach our children is an insane policy. Schools looking for funds are going to take the path of least resistance, which generally means a curriculum skewed in favour of the sporting scholarship. After all, there is a far better chance of a school producing the next Super Bowl champion than the next Einstein, and the billion dollar sports industry is only too willing to share its wealth in order to keep its stadiums full of paying customers. If the US would wake up to the fact that the fastest growing economies on the planet are all nations who take public education seriously and have rapidly expanding populations of graduates with real degrees in real subjects, they may just stop the rot before its too late. If they don't, the end result will be a nation incapable of competing with the emerging superstates of the likes of China and India. If you don't believe me, take a look at your history books to see what a huge impact the tiny nation of Japan had on the US economy in the last century.

As for movies and TV having a detrimental effect on a student's ability to understand real physics, I don't think there is a case to answer. If what they see on screen is wrong, its up to their teachers to explain why. If the student then doesn't understand the real physics they are probably on the wrong course and should head off to the football field. Blaming anyone else for your own lack of understanding is just plain silly. I don't know how to fly an airplane, although I have seen it done in a myriad of times in movies. However, if I were to go to flight school and, after much tuition, subsequently fail to get my pilot's licence, I don't envisage myself turning up at Charlton Heston's home demanding he apologise for my failure because he piloted the Jumbo Jet in Airport '75 in the wrong way. blink.gif
Me
And here I thought that we'd be able to get those cool laser blasters as an after market add on for my car, complete with all of the sound effects like the whizzing sound when someone ducks out of the way of an energy bolt. tongue.gif
RavenWizard
You’re not likely to find any critic not using their own imagination throughout their reviews on books, movies, fashion, or most anything else.

I’m reminded of the following three quotes:

“You can’t depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus.”
- Mark Twain

“Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it, we go nowhere.” - Carl Sagan

“Imagination is more important than knowledge.” - Albert Einstein

So let ‘em role Lester and be prepared to be scrutinized like a microbe in a drop of water under a microscope by students of your local science class. Teachers are finding new ways to teach their classes as well as learn from their students. The challenge remains. The results are – Well, they haven’t graduated yet.
lokis
look how many people - students too - that question the 911 collapse with alternate scenarios that have no basis in science. That too is a embarrassment to the state of science and its teachings. God Bless - Lokis Aug 20 07
superman
Would someone who believes everything in movies as being realistic actually have the capability to be a physicist?

Maybe they are in the wrong field. I think a career in the food industry might be more appropriate for these people.
AgentG
QUOTE (lokis+Aug 20 2007, 04:23 PM)
look how many people - students too - that question the 911 collapse with alternate scenarios that have no basis in science.  That too is a embarrassment to the state of science and its teachings.  God Bless - Lokis Aug 20 07

lokis:
The real tragedy/embarrassment is that the general population, including people like yourself, is unable to distinguish science from propaganda. No building has ever spontaneously collapsed under its own weight at the speed of free fall, even while burning, prior to the explanation given for the 9/11 towers. Also, if you do some research, you will see that a rigorous scientific explanation for the collapse of these towers is still outstanding.

AgentG
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