The sun is a second generation star. Meaning that there was a star
that went before it. The star that went before the solar system went supernova and deposited all the elements we see and that make up the planets. I believe it was the kind of supernova that left a neutron star; a type II that left a dead star core behind. Astronomers call this Nemesis. But what happened to Nemesis? If it left the vicinity it might still be close by. I predict that a new investigation into our sun's dark companion will take place. That it exists is nearly certain in my opinion. Where it went if anywhere is the question. If this neutron star has been cooling for
4.5 billion years it should be entirely dark. It might have swept up most of the debris in its orbit. Its orbit is considered 26 milllion years. The evidence of Nemesis that we have now may be the gravitational disturbance that the outer planets experience. It might not be a 10th planet. It might be Nemesis. To detect it we ought to be waiting for the next Gamma Ray Burst that comes from it.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
Do you mean to say that nemesis is neutron star?But apparently you are reviving a dead matter.Isnt nemesis a mythological character and thats all?
Do you believe that the original? Star kind of split itself in two, whereby one is our sun and the other is hiding somewhere near???
Far out :)
Far out :)
Nick. Why did you spam this information into a new thread when you already have your answer?
QUOTE
Posted: May 1 2007, 07:05 AM. How many planets?
The sun is a second generation star. Meaning that there was a star that went before it. The star that went before the solar system went supernova and deposited all the elements that make up the planets. I believe it was the kind of supernova that left a neutron star or a dead star core behind. Astronomers call this Nemesis. But what happened to Nemesis? If it left the vicinity it might still be close by. I predict that a new investigation into our sun's dark companion will take place. That it exists is nearly certain in my opinion. Where it went if anywhere is the question. If this neutron star has been cooling for 5 billion years it might be entirely black. It might have swept up most of the debris in its orbit. The evidence of Nemesis that we have now is the gravitational disturbance that the outer planets experience. It might not be a 10th planet. It might be Nemesis. To detect it we ought to be waiting for the next Gamma Ray Burst that comes from it.
The sun is a second generation star. Meaning that there was a star that went before it. The star that went before the solar system went supernova and deposited all the elements that make up the planets. I believe it was the kind of supernova that left a neutron star or a dead star core behind. Astronomers call this Nemesis. But what happened to Nemesis? If it left the vicinity it might still be close by. I predict that a new investigation into our sun's dark companion will take place. That it exists is nearly certain in my opinion. Where it went if anywhere is the question. If this neutron star has been cooling for 5 billion years it might be entirely black. It might have swept up most of the debris in its orbit. The evidence of Nemesis that we have now is the gravitational disturbance that the outer planets experience. It might not be a 10th planet. It might be Nemesis. To detect it we ought to be waiting for the next Gamma Ray Burst that comes from it.
Nick. To repeat what I have already told you.
We can detect neutron stars all around our galaxy. Why cannot we detect one in our back yard? It would be like trying to ignore an elephant standing next to you.
As to GRB's, they are not emitted by neutron stars. Evidence of one in our neighbourhood would be a second or two in advance of our dying of radiation poisoning.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- SAME OLD, SAME OLD --
We can detect neutron stars all around our galaxy. Why cannot we detect one in our back yard? It would be like trying to ignore an elephant standing next to you.
As to GRB's, they are not emitted by neutron stars. Evidence of one in our neighbourhood would be a second or two in advance of our dying of radiation poisoning.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- SAME OLD, SAME OLD --
QUOTE (kaneda+May 5 2007, 02:43 PM)
Nick. To repeat what I have already told you.
We can detect neutron stars all around our galaxy. Why cannot we detect one in our back yard? It would be like trying to ignore an elephant standing next to you.
As to GRB's, they are not emitted by neutron stars. Evidence of one in our neighbourhood would be a second or two in advance of our dying of radiation poisoning.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- SAME OLD, SAME OLD --
IF IT HAS BEEN COOLING FOR 5 BILLLION YEARS WHY SHOULD WE EXPECT IT TO KILL US NOW?
We can detect neutron stars all around our galaxy. Why cannot we detect one in our back yard? It would be like trying to ignore an elephant standing next to you.
As to GRB's, they are not emitted by neutron stars. Evidence of one in our neighbourhood would be a second or two in advance of our dying of radiation poisoning.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- SAME OLD, SAME OLD --
IF IT HAS BEEN COOLING FOR 5 BILLLION YEARS WHY SHOULD WE EXPECT IT TO KILL US NOW?
QUOTE (Nick+May 5 2007, 03:16 PM)
IF IT HAS BEEN COOLING FOR 5 BILLLION YEARS WHY SHOULD WE EXPECT IT TO KILL US NOW?
We shouldn't Because one would be gravitationally very powerful and would suck up anything even near it, plus it spins at near 1/2 the speed of light so it would show effects upon space that we do not see anywheres in the local vicinity.
We shouldn't Because one would be gravitationally very powerful and would suck up anything even near it, plus it spins at near 1/2 the speed of light so it would show effects upon space that we do not see anywheres in the local vicinity.
And you are serious?
QUOTE (yor_on+May 5 2007, 08:06 PM)
And you are serious?
YES. AS LONG AS THE PRIOR STAR WAS MASSIVE ENOUGH IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TYPE II SUPERNOVA LEAVING A NEUTRON STAR BEHIND.
YES. AS LONG AS THE PRIOR STAR WAS MASSIVE ENOUGH IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TYPE II SUPERNOVA LEAVING A NEUTRON STAR BEHIND.
And in 5 billion years, could have wandered off anywhere in the galaxy.
QUOTE (N O M+May 6 2007, 05:42 AM)
And in 5 billion years, could have wandered off anywhere in the galaxy.
YOU ARE WRONG. In binary systems one of the companions does not wander off. It would be gravitationally bound.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
YOU ARE WRONG. In binary systems one of the companions does not wander off. It would be gravitationally bound.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
5 billion years back it would have destroyed solar system.
Nick. Yes, cooled down from a trillion degrees to mere billions of degrees. Again, neutron stars do not emit GRB's.
Having had sufficient mass to form a neutron star means it has a few times as much mass as our sun (which can hold planets in formation billions of miles away) so we would see major perturbations if a neutron star were anywhere near us as well as detect it with our telescopes. The nearest neutron star to us is J0108-1431 at some 320 light years away.
Having had sufficient mass to form a neutron star means it has a few times as much mass as our sun (which can hold planets in formation billions of miles away) so we would see major perturbations if a neutron star were anywhere near us as well as detect it with our telescopes. The nearest neutron star to us is J0108-1431 at some 320 light years away.
QUOTE (alokmohan+May 6 2007, 11:43 PM)
5 billion years back it would have destroyed solar system.
Good point. No second generation star system is going to form anywhere near a neutron star. As the biggest thing around, any system will form in a disk aroud the neutron star.
Good point. No second generation star system is going to form anywhere near a neutron star. As the biggest thing around, any system will form in a disk aroud the neutron star.
QUOTE (N O M+May 6 2007, 08:41 PM)
Good point. No second generation star system is going to form anywhere.
Edited for accuracy.
Edited for accuracy.
Let me guess. You are in the goddidit camp?
QUOTE (alokmohan+May 6 2007, 11:43 AM)
5 billion years back it would have destroyed solar system.
It FORMED the solar system.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALL --
It FORMED the solar system.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALL --
QUOTE (N O M+May 6 2007, 08:41 PM)
Good point. No second generation star system is going to form anywhere near a neutron star. As the biggest thing around, any system will form in a disk aroud the neutron star.
NEMEISIS HAS A 26 MILLION YEAR ORBIT PUTTING IT A LIGHT YEAR OR TWO AWAY IN MY OPINION. THE SUPERNOVA THAT PRODUCED IT PRODUCED THE MATERIAL FOR THIS SOLAR SYSTEM. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALL --
NEMEISIS HAS A 26 MILLION YEAR ORBIT PUTTING IT A LIGHT YEAR OR TWO AWAY IN MY OPINION. THE SUPERNOVA THAT PRODUCED IT PRODUCED THE MATERIAL FOR THIS SOLAR SYSTEM. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FALL --
It would still stick out like Kaneda's elephant
QUOTE
NEMEISIS HAS A 26 MILLION YEAR ORBIT PUTTING IT A LIGHT YEAR OR TWO AWAY IN MY OPINION. THE SUPERNOVA THAT PRODUCED IT PRODUCED THE MATERIAL FOR THIS SOLAR SYSTEM. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
Orbital period is related to mean orbital distance by T^2=R^3, thus an object orbiting with a period 2.6x10^7 time that of earth would have a mean orbital distance of somewhat less than 1x10^5 AU so, a little more than 2 light-years. Supernovae are very powerful events, I don't think a gas cloud 2 light-years distant would survive. Besides, why would only the sun orbit around the supernova remnant when there are other stars at similar distances (proxima, alpha, beta Centauri).
A supernova need not be nearby to have seeded the pre-solar nebula with heavy elements. The elements produced in the supernova would travel outwards until they were stopped by something, in this case the gas and dust of the early solar system.
In addition, I don't think the sun could "hold on" to an object 2 light-years distant very effectively due to the effects of other stars and debris (in the Oort Cloud) on such objects. Keep in mind, 2+ light-years is the mean distance, objects in the Oort cloud tend to have elongated orbits that take them much closer and then much farther than their mean distances.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| NEMEISIS HAS A 26 MILLION YEAR ORBIT PUTTING IT A LIGHT YEAR OR TWO AWAY IN MY OPINION. THE SUPERNOVA THAT PRODUCED IT PRODUCED THE MATERIAL FOR THIS SOLAR SYSTEM. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. |
Orbital period is related to mean orbital distance by T^2=R^3, thus an object orbiting with a period 2.6x10^7 time that of earth would have a mean orbital distance of somewhat less than 1x10^5 AU so, a little more than 2 light-years. Supernovae are very powerful events, I don't think a gas cloud 2 light-years distant would survive. Besides, why would only the sun orbit around the supernova remnant when there are other stars at similar distances (proxima, alpha, beta Centauri).
A supernova need not be nearby to have seeded the pre-solar nebula with heavy elements. The elements produced in the supernova would travel outwards until they were stopped by something, in this case the gas and dust of the early solar system.
In addition, I don't think the sun could "hold on" to an object 2 light-years distant very effectively due to the effects of other stars and debris (in the Oort Cloud) on such objects. Keep in mind, 2+ light-years is the mean distance, objects in the Oort cloud tend to have elongated orbits that take them much closer and then much farther than their mean distances.
YOU ARE WRONG. In binary systems one of the companions does not wander off. It would be gravitationally bound.
That is fallacious logic, you are saying: the sun is part of a binary system because it is part of a binary system, without giving any evidence.
HOW DID IT GET AWAY?
YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE GRAVITY HERE.
MITCH REMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE GRAVITY HERE.
MITCH REMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
I doubt there was just the one supernova. Gravity can cancel out when there are several massive objects around.
Also, even though the escape velocity of a neutron star may be close to lightspeed, the escape velocity required to escape the star that exploded in the supernova would have been much less. The supernova explosion would have been energetic enough to completely eject this matter.
Also, even though the escape velocity of a neutron star may be close to lightspeed, the escape velocity required to escape the star that exploded in the supernova would have been much less. The supernova explosion would have been energetic enough to completely eject this matter.
THE GRAVITY OF THE SUN WILL KEEP NEMESIS AROUND. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --
QUOTE (Nick+May 7 2007, 03:42 PM)
THE GRAVITY OF THE SUN WILL KEEP NEMESIS AROUND. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
But before the sun coalesced it was a cloud of gas and dust in space. I doubt its gravity would do much to a neutron star, quite the opposite.
You seem to think the neutron star will be orbiting the sun, yet it must be many times more massive. We would be able to detect if we are orbiting a nearby (astronomically) object, even if we couldn't detect it.
But before the sun coalesced it was a cloud of gas and dust in space. I doubt its gravity would do much to a neutron star, quite the opposite.
You seem to think the neutron star will be orbiting the sun, yet it must be many times more massive. We would be able to detect if we are orbiting a nearby (astronomically) object, even if we couldn't detect it.
at this reference Wikipedia(dot)org it states this...
So, no 'near Earth' Neutron Star...other then perhaps the lead singer of a Rock band
QUOTE
(SNIP) The neutron star's compactness also gives it very high surface gravity, 2×10^11 to 3×10^12 times stronger than that of Earth. (SNoP)
So you could be rather sure that if there was one anywheres near us we would have known of it by now, that and there are Luminous so they are visible in the Light spectrum, observable.So, no 'near Earth' Neutron Star...other then perhaps the lead singer of a Rock band
QUOTE (N O M+May 7 2007, 10:23 AM)
But before the sun coalesced it was a cloud of gas and dust in space. I doubt its gravity would do much to a neutron star, quite the opposite.
To expand on what NOM said, the neutron star being a few times more massive than our sun would have sucked up much of the material of the solar system and possibly even what eventually formed the sun had it remained in the immediate neighbourhood.
Our sun is moving 27 miles per second towards Vega. It is possible that the other star wandered off in another direction. In theory it could be almost a third of the way to the Andromeda galaxy by now if travelling at a similar speed.
To expand on what NOM said, the neutron star being a few times more massive than our sun would have sucked up much of the material of the solar system and possibly even what eventually formed the sun had it remained in the immediate neighbourhood.
Our sun is moving 27 miles per second towards Vega. It is possible that the other star wandered off in another direction. In theory it could be almost a third of the way to the Andromeda galaxy by now if travelling at a similar speed.
There is no evidence of neutron star,no pulsation.No radio wave .No evidence of nemesis.It is 10th planet or not?At least nemesis is not 10th planet.
Surface gravity is irrelevant, as it does not effect gravity at a distance. Only mass effects gravity at a distance. If the sun were to instantly collapse into a black hole, there would be no gravitational effects on the earth. WE would all freeze to death within a few hours, however.
Nevertheless, a neutron star could not have been closer to the earth than several light years at ANY time in the history of the universe, or it would have destroyed the solar system.
Nevertheless, a neutron star could not have been closer to the earth than several light years at ANY time in the history of the universe, or it would have destroyed the solar system.
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+May 7 2007, 09:24 AM)
Surface gravity is irrelevant, as it does not effect gravity at a distance. Only mass effects gravity at a distance. If the sun were to instantly collapse into a black hole, there would be no gravitational effects on the earth. WE would all freeze to death within a few hours, however.
No ....but, as you say 'mass does' ....did you read ANY of the link?
this part perhaps
you guys....................
No ....but, as you say 'mass does' ....did you read ANY of the link?
this part perhaps
QUOTE (that Wiki Link+)
(SNIP) A typical neutron star has a mass between 1.35 to about 2.1 solar masses, (SNoP)
....so if that much mass, were as close to us as the Sun currently is, now?
....so if that much mass, were as close to us as the Sun currently is, now?
you guys....................
QUOTE (N O M+May 7 2007, 09:23 AM)
But before the sun coalesced it was a cloud of gas and dust in space. I doubt its gravity would do much to a neutron star, quite the opposite.
You seem to think the neutron star will be orbiting the sun, yet it must be many times more massive. We would be able to detect if we are orbiting a nearby (astronomically) object, even if we couldn't detect it.
Not so. It is orbiting so slow that it basically stays to one side of the solar system.
You seem to think the neutron star will be orbiting the sun, yet it must be many times more massive. We would be able to detect if we are orbiting a nearby (astronomically) object, even if we couldn't detect it.
Not so. It is orbiting so slow that it basically stays to one side of the solar system.
But it wouldn't be orbiting the sun. The sun would be orbiting it. So would several other nearby stars. We know the relative velocities of our sun and those nearby, they aren't orbiting anything.
I know this argument is long over in favor of the "it just exists because it should" based on superior energy.
First an ordinary star or star cluster cannot hold onto a body with a 26 million orbit period. Other stars will gravitationally interfere. Also real orbits with 26 million year period are thousands of light years in radius. A 26 million year orbit is NOT possible for unless one object is of a mini-galaxy mass over powering influences of mere stars. Try plugging some numbers into the basic gravitational equation.
Second a neutron star in a binary system can NEVER cool off. A neutron star will FEED off the companion system HALO material, Kupiter belt, and outer planets during its closest approach. We have orbital math and countless photos of binary star interactions proving this.
A neutron star would not be "orbiting the Sun" -- basic binary star physics. Actually everything would elliptically orbit the common center of gravity (of the total system of stars and planetary disc) -- the largest stellar class objects obviously so. Smaller objects will also more obviously be orbiting closer large objects or be perturbed by by them.
Second generation stars do NOT have a a 1-to-1 relation to first generation stars. Basically new stars do not care where the dust came from. The latest evidence is that the earth has dust from 13 predecessor stars and some "virgin" primordial dust.
Nor do new stars form very close to old cores. Yes we have photos of star forming nebula that show old star cores eating up dust and preventing the formation of new stars in their immediate neighborhood. Yes we see evidence of asymmetrical nova spewing the old core out at speeds of over 1 million kilometers per hour -- meaning those cores can be far away from new stars forming in area.
Yes new star formation depends on old star cores or existing stars or novas are important to set up gravitational waves or shock waves to concentrate gas clouds -- but at a minimum 1-1/2 light year distance from existing bodies in almost all cases.
First an ordinary star or star cluster cannot hold onto a body with a 26 million orbit period. Other stars will gravitationally interfere. Also real orbits with 26 million year period are thousands of light years in radius. A 26 million year orbit is NOT possible for unless one object is of a mini-galaxy mass over powering influences of mere stars. Try plugging some numbers into the basic gravitational equation.
Second a neutron star in a binary system can NEVER cool off. A neutron star will FEED off the companion system HALO material, Kupiter belt, and outer planets during its closest approach. We have orbital math and countless photos of binary star interactions proving this.
A neutron star would not be "orbiting the Sun" -- basic binary star physics. Actually everything would elliptically orbit the common center of gravity (of the total system of stars and planetary disc) -- the largest stellar class objects obviously so. Smaller objects will also more obviously be orbiting closer large objects or be perturbed by by them.
Second generation stars do NOT have a a 1-to-1 relation to first generation stars. Basically new stars do not care where the dust came from. The latest evidence is that the earth has dust from 13 predecessor stars and some "virgin" primordial dust.
Nor do new stars form very close to old cores. Yes we have photos of star forming nebula that show old star cores eating up dust and preventing the formation of new stars in their immediate neighborhood. Yes we see evidence of asymmetrical nova spewing the old core out at speeds of over 1 million kilometers per hour -- meaning those cores can be far away from new stars forming in area.
Yes new star formation depends on old star cores or existing stars or novas are important to set up gravitational waves or shock waves to concentrate gas clouds -- but at a minimum 1-1/2 light year distance from existing bodies in almost all cases.
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