Napster launches a portable version of its music subscription service, spending $30 million for ad campaign.
Napster's promotion in North America includes a Super Bowl television spot urging fans to compare the costs of spending $10,000 to buy and transfer 10,000 songs from Apple's iTunes store to an iPod, with the $15-per-month fee to carry songs from a catalogue of over a million tracks on Napster-compatible players.
It's the first digital music service to use Microsoft's Janus technology, which allows monthly subscribers to take their music with them instead of having to pay for an individual song each time they want something new in their MP3 player.
sounds pretty lame -- using Microsoft's crap is just plain old lame.
I agree- I like my iPod.
It would be worth if the new players are as nice as the ipod is. 
Besides napster is cheap, so why not?
Besides napster is cheap, so why not?
its just music. what happened to the good old days where if you wanted to hear music you went to a show??? i guess im old fashioned, but where is all of this capitalist control of music going to leave us? i think its going to result in the objectification of one of the purest things we as a society still have.
when did microsoft ever build anything remotely cool?
for that matter, when did they ever make any decent software?
for that matter, when did they ever make any decent software?
How long will it take to crack this 'Janus' technology? As soon as someone cracks it, napster will fil for bankruptcy protection
So when you stop paying your monthly $15 fee, your songs are gone. That's gone - as in gone for good. No thanks. I'll stick to owning my music.
Interesting that Apple users will stick with apple through all the corner cutting, from SCSI to IDE, etc. What a cult.
It’s true that “IPOD killers” were always just around the corner, but no one wanted to believe this because so many people have invested rather heavily in them. No doubt this news from Napster will be disturbing to may owners. But alas, the last fifteen years or so the IT industry has moved in leaps and bounds thanks to Microsoft, and if you thought for just one moment this cycle was going to end with your IPOD, then you had better think again!
" I'll be Back "
" I'll be Back "
Yes, comparing the transfer from SCSI to IDE is devastatingly relevant to portable music players. Touche.
Guess I don't get it! Download Napster's product to my portable device and it is rented?
At first I thought 'Go Napster'. But as was said, what if I stop paying the $15 a month? It disapears from the device? Still don't get it...
At first I thought 'Go Napster'. But as was said, what if I stop paying the $15 a month? It disapears from the device? Still don't get it...
I was looking at purchasing an mp3 player with high capacity and like the idea of owning an Ipod. Can you play mp3's on an Ipod, or does it only play a proprietary format that was created by Apple? I 'won' a song for buying a pepsi a while back and downloaded it from Apple and I couldn't play it on my computer without having itunes installed. Is that the same story for all songs downloaded from itunes?
If Apple had come up with this idea, they would have been lauded on almost every blog across the internet, but anybody else, and the die-hard mac users feel like someone is trying to rain on Apple's parade. I own an ipod and love it, but I also love the idea of downloading unlimited music. Lets face it, if Apple can't suck up their pride and jump on this bandwagon, they're going to lose any hold they have on the current market, and the ipod will just become another great idea every other company made work.
Napster - Apple...
Apple has the great design but it's always more expensive on a performace vs cost basis.
The beauty of capitalism: competition
How can anyone complain about Napster coming in and giving Apple some price pressure!? Doesn't make sense. Let's hope costs continue to drop and we can get an option of buying forever what we want and renting the stuff we don't.
Apple has the great design but it's always more expensive on a performace vs cost basis.
The beauty of capitalism: competition
How can anyone complain about Napster coming in and giving Apple some price pressure!? Doesn't make sense. Let's hope costs continue to drop and we can get an option of buying forever what we want and renting the stuff we don't.
Get over the whole pc vs mac deal. The iPod will work with the napster program. Napster is not a pc based initiative, it is a music based initiative. Think about it, if you had to buy 40 gigs worth of music and actually paid for it all (which most of you don't so you have no room to say that you would rather own it) it would be tens of thousands of dollars, but instead you could lease the music and listen to anything you want for 15 bucks. It starts to become appealing to those that chose not to steal music from musicians.
Like anything else Apple, it's a FAD. Remember the Newton? What's Apple market share of computers nowadays? Less than 1.8% of the industry.
So they come up with an artsie-fartsie looking iPod. Of course, Apple die hard fanatics will claim this is the best thing since sliced bread.
And they won't mind shelling out the $400 CDN for this underpowered yet overpriced, old proprietary technology. The paper box it comes delivered in alone is worth $200 to some feeble brains... Oh by the way, it says "designed in California, manufactured in China".
Let them say what they want, the world has already moved along.
DRM from Microsoft, I can't say if it is good or bad. But I like their "lossless" compression scheme.
As for renting from almost 1,000,000+ songs for a mere $15 / months sounds good to me.
Who needs to crack DRM when this $15/mo price point makes it moot?
Basically, Apple is insignificant. Sad but true. Let's see where their market share stands in two years.
So they come up with an artsie-fartsie looking iPod. Of course, Apple die hard fanatics will claim this is the best thing since sliced bread.
And they won't mind shelling out the $400 CDN for this underpowered yet overpriced, old proprietary technology. The paper box it comes delivered in alone is worth $200 to some feeble brains... Oh by the way, it says "designed in California, manufactured in China".
Let them say what they want, the world has already moved along.
DRM from Microsoft, I can't say if it is good or bad. But I like their "lossless" compression scheme.
As for renting from almost 1,000,000+ songs for a mere $15 / months sounds good to me.
Who needs to crack DRM when this $15/mo price point makes it moot?
Basically, Apple is insignificant. Sad but true. Let's see where their market share stands in two years.
They're trying to repackage the same Microsoft DRM "Windows Media Player" technology that simply failed miserably in the marketplace, as if it is something new.
Apple arrived late; there were already plenty of WMP reference designs being built (players) and there were online stores trying to sell crippled music "licenses" in place of songs. WMP is all about giving content creators 1984 style control of everything you buy, turning corporations into government entities and replacing the free market with a monopoly of pseudo choices (which flavor of Windows do you want on your PC? You can pick NT or 95!)
Apple released a product that was simple, easy to operate and stylish. People chose to buy it. When Apple released their own store much later, people found it useful and competitive with buying CDs. Like CDs, you get possession and generous use rights.
Unlike WMP, you don't have to pay another dollar for the 'right' to burn the song to CD if you want to listen to your music in your rental car for example.
Microsoft's entire business plan with WMP has failed spectacularly, since the market has largely ignored the various vendors licensing WMP: Walmart, Napster, Dell, etc. Now Napster suggests that if you get rid of the player you chose, and buy an ugly, complicated and unreliable "WMP compatible player," you can pay $15 a month to listen to all the music you want. When you stop paying rent, your music disappears tho. And you can't even use the music as you'd expect. Only on your music player, or in Windows.
People forget that Microsoft has failed spectacularly many times, and the only thing they can hold on to is the OS monopoly in PC operating systems (which are in the news every week for their sloppy security and popup malware exploits) and their leading Office suite.
Microsoft spent Billions (!) trying to buy out the console game market for themselves, but only own a chunk of the US market with their XBox (vs Sony & Nintendo's worldwide share). They are not clear market leaders on even half the scale of Apple's iPod, which Apple is profiting on (Microsoft is still losing money on the XBox; with their undisputed monopoly on PCs, they have plenty of money to use in trying to stifle competition in various other markets, and are largely failing.)
Microsoft destroyed the web, destroyed much of the promise of Java, and is trying to do the same in PC hardware (making new PCs only run signed Windows code and identify you to media companies so each PC pays for every song and movie you buy, every time to use it).
Apple shot a huge hole in Microsoft's WMP, creating the opportunity for other players to compete as well. Instead, all the market participants so far have all sat on the sidelines with their jaws on the floor, trying to sell the Microsoft technology they bought that nobody wants.
Microsoft has been complaining that Apple's iPod fails to give you the choice of buying from one of the many Microsoft WMP stores, since the iPod only plays standard music formats and not the locked down WMP. That's like saying that the new Mac Mini doens't give you the choice of running Windows 2000 or NT or xp or Longhorn, and you can only run Office and iTunes and all your other apps under the much slicker Mac OS X operating system.
Face it all you Microsoft Wintel fanboys; Microsoft is at its most vulnerable point in decades. For the first time since their DOS days, they have real competition. Consumers are figuring out they don't have to stand in line to buy from the One Windows Trough; there is an alternative to Microsoft dictating how we buy songs, and an independent way to use computers. Both are classier, smarter, slicker and taking over the mindshare of the world.
What a fantastic world it'd be if there were enough competition to keep Microsoft and Apple both innovating and pushing the state of the art, and demanding interoperability between systems and file formats and vendors.
Apple arrived late; there were already plenty of WMP reference designs being built (players) and there were online stores trying to sell crippled music "licenses" in place of songs. WMP is all about giving content creators 1984 style control of everything you buy, turning corporations into government entities and replacing the free market with a monopoly of pseudo choices (which flavor of Windows do you want on your PC? You can pick NT or 95!)
Apple released a product that was simple, easy to operate and stylish. People chose to buy it. When Apple released their own store much later, people found it useful and competitive with buying CDs. Like CDs, you get possession and generous use rights.
Unlike WMP, you don't have to pay another dollar for the 'right' to burn the song to CD if you want to listen to your music in your rental car for example.
Microsoft's entire business plan with WMP has failed spectacularly, since the market has largely ignored the various vendors licensing WMP: Walmart, Napster, Dell, etc. Now Napster suggests that if you get rid of the player you chose, and buy an ugly, complicated and unreliable "WMP compatible player," you can pay $15 a month to listen to all the music you want. When you stop paying rent, your music disappears tho. And you can't even use the music as you'd expect. Only on your music player, or in Windows.
People forget that Microsoft has failed spectacularly many times, and the only thing they can hold on to is the OS monopoly in PC operating systems (which are in the news every week for their sloppy security and popup malware exploits) and their leading Office suite.
Microsoft spent Billions (!) trying to buy out the console game market for themselves, but only own a chunk of the US market with their XBox (vs Sony & Nintendo's worldwide share). They are not clear market leaders on even half the scale of Apple's iPod, which Apple is profiting on (Microsoft is still losing money on the XBox; with their undisputed monopoly on PCs, they have plenty of money to use in trying to stifle competition in various other markets, and are largely failing.)
Microsoft destroyed the web, destroyed much of the promise of Java, and is trying to do the same in PC hardware (making new PCs only run signed Windows code and identify you to media companies so each PC pays for every song and movie you buy, every time to use it).
Apple shot a huge hole in Microsoft's WMP, creating the opportunity for other players to compete as well. Instead, all the market participants so far have all sat on the sidelines with their jaws on the floor, trying to sell the Microsoft technology they bought that nobody wants.
Microsoft has been complaining that Apple's iPod fails to give you the choice of buying from one of the many Microsoft WMP stores, since the iPod only plays standard music formats and not the locked down WMP. That's like saying that the new Mac Mini doens't give you the choice of running Windows 2000 or NT or xp or Longhorn, and you can only run Office and iTunes and all your other apps under the much slicker Mac OS X operating system.
Face it all you Microsoft Wintel fanboys; Microsoft is at its most vulnerable point in decades. For the first time since their DOS days, they have real competition. Consumers are figuring out they don't have to stand in line to buy from the One Windows Trough; there is an alternative to Microsoft dictating how we buy songs, and an independent way to use computers. Both are classier, smarter, slicker and taking over the mindshare of the world.
What a fantastic world it'd be if there were enough competition to keep Microsoft and Apple both innovating and pushing the state of the art, and demanding interoperability between systems and file formats and vendors.
musiclover, you don't own "your" music -- it is licensed to you under very specific terms. Don't believe me? Try and play it in a public place like a bar or charge people to listen to it.
Of course, if you like in the Uk, you will have to pay *ALMOST DOUBLE* for the service (~$28). I wonder if the same people who made a stink about the IPod song pricing will do so here too?
Not Thanx to Microsoft... Microsoft copies everyone else's innovations... not just apples. Paying $15 a month for the rest of your life to keep your songs is LAME. The people that don't have an Ipod or think ITunes is lame are part of Microsoft's flock of sheep. Keep thinking your inferior software and hardware is better. We don't want your kind anyway.
Napster rents music; Apple sells it. Just like with houses, one month's rent is less than buying the place. So what else is new.
QUOTE (Andrew+Feb 6 2005, 09:12 PM)
If Apple had come up with this idea, they would have been lauded on almost every blog across the internet, but anybody else, and the die-hard mac users feel like someone is trying to rain on Apple's parade.
You really really think Apple didn't run this through the brain mill several hundred times and decided to let someone else run with it to build up momentum before gutting them off at the knees?
If you don't realize that you should go to bed and wake up with a clue next time buddy!
You really really think Apple didn't run this through the brain mill several hundred times and decided to let someone else run with it to build up momentum before gutting them off at the knees?
If you don't realize that you should go to bed and wake up with a clue next time buddy!
QUOTE (Shrugged+Feb 6 2005, 08:47 PM)
Guess I don't get it! Download Napster's product to my portable device and it is rented?
At first I thought 'Go Napster'. But as was said, what if I stop paying the $15 a month? It disapears from the device? Still don't get it...
From PCWorlds website:
"Napster users can fill and refill compatible MP3 players with their choice of tracks, but must plug, or dock, the device into their PC at least once every 30 days into order for Napster to verify they are still paying customers. If users stop paying their monthly subscription fee [$15], the music will no longer play on the device."
No thanks.
At first I thought 'Go Napster'. But as was said, what if I stop paying the $15 a month? It disapears from the device? Still don't get it...
From PCWorlds website:
"Napster users can fill and refill compatible MP3 players with their choice of tracks, but must plug, or dock, the device into their PC at least once every 30 days into order for Napster to verify they are still paying customers. If users stop paying their monthly subscription fee [$15], the music will no longer play on the device."
No thanks.
It's worth mentioning at this point that there are exploits available surreptitiously within a few days that will render the Janus DRM null and void, making togo the ultimate trojan.
Imagine millions of teens without a CD collection to rip into iTunes being able to download thousands of tracks from Napster and then stop paying the monthly subscription and get to keep the tracks.
This will make ipod store a waste of time, and the DOJ will not be able to close things down until Apple is dead in the water.
This is how Microsoft has done business in the past, and this is how Microsoft does business today.
Napster is Microsoft.
iRiver is Microsoft.
Imagine millions of teens without a CD collection to rip into iTunes being able to download thousands of tracks from Napster and then stop paying the monthly subscription and get to keep the tracks.
This will make ipod store a waste of time, and the DOJ will not be able to close things down until Apple is dead in the water.
This is how Microsoft has done business in the past, and this is how Microsoft does business today.
Napster is Microsoft.
iRiver is Microsoft.
QUOTE
This is how Microsoft has done business in the past, and this is how Microsoft does business today.
damn... that's jacked.
hey dude -
you wrote:
Yes, you can play MP3s on your iPod. You can also play AAC files and Apple Lossless format too. AAC is what you get when you download from iTunes. If you really want to convert it to MP3 for some reason (like playing the song in another software player - but why? iTunes is an awesome jukebox app), you can simply burn a CD and then re-import the songs. You will lose a little sound quality this way but not any more than when you import any other CD and convert to MP3. For more info read up at:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/
you wrote:
QUOTE
I was looking at purchasing an mp3 player with high capacity and like the idea of owning an Ipod. Can you play mp3's on an Ipod, or does it only play a proprietary format that was created by Apple? I 'won' a song for buying a pepsi a while back and downloaded it from Apple and I couldn't play it on my computer without having itunes installed. Is that the same story for all songs downloaded from itunes?
Yes, you can play MP3s on your iPod. You can also play AAC files and Apple Lossless format too. AAC is what you get when you download from iTunes. If you really want to convert it to MP3 for some reason (like playing the song in another software player - but why? iTunes is an awesome jukebox app), you can simply burn a CD and then re-import the songs. You will lose a little sound quality this way but not any more than when you import any other CD and convert to MP3. For more info read up at:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/
1. at $15/month, over a period of 70 years (a lifetime) of listening, that's something like $25K down the tubes. and that assumes the price will remain $15/month for 70 years.
2. forget the iTunes Music Store for a moment, the iPod interface is excellent. it seamlessly governs music purchased at the iTMS, as well as that which is ripped from the user's own collection of CDs and mp3s.
3. many people already have large investments in CDs, so they already "own" much of the material necessary to populate their portable music player.
4. what's the incentive for anyone to invest further in CDs? Higher quality rips, for one. The ability to load and play the music anywhere, for another. What quality do you get from Napster or the iTMS? What restrictions do you have on where you can play their music?
2. forget the iTunes Music Store for a moment, the iPod interface is excellent. it seamlessly governs music purchased at the iTMS, as well as that which is ripped from the user's own collection of CDs and mp3s.
3. many people already have large investments in CDs, so they already "own" much of the material necessary to populate their portable music player.
4. what's the incentive for anyone to invest further in CDs? Higher quality rips, for one. The ability to load and play the music anywhere, for another. What quality do you get from Napster or the iTMS? What restrictions do you have on where you can play their music?
"You about to have your choice of over 1,000,000 tracks for your PC or compatible MP3 player."
Illiterates.
Illiterates.
I would like to see the music that I buy or rent from any online music store profits go the the musician. Microsoft is bound to have problems with this new system because of viruses. I have an iPod and alot of the music I have on it came from my own collection of CD's and other borrowed CD's. This is the best way to to put music on your computer or mp3 player. Curious though can you burn CD's from this new napster system? [SIZE=7] 
Scat
Scat
I just installed the software on my XP system. First of all, it tried to install in the Administrator files, which is wrong. After correcting that error in the path it used, and before it would continue with the install, the installer asked for permission to turn off my Roxio burning software. I'm not very happy with that, but I went ahead with it anyway. After installation... To register for the 30-days free listening, you have to provide personal information and a credit card. Since I didn't plan on using the service after the 30 days, I chose to uninstall the software instead of giving out my personal information. While uninstalling, I noticed for the first time in "Add or Remove Programs" an item named "MSN Music Assistant". I'm wondering if the Napster installation installed this MSNMA? If it did, then the uninstall of Napster should have removed MSNMA, but did not.
yes... pay $15/month for 1 million tunes you really can't keep or burn or carry over to a better competitor's player with crappier sound quality... everyone rejoice.
OH, and P.S. itunes is not a fad... after selling ---howmany--- 200+ million tracks? it's not a fad. iTunes and iPod is interoperable, you can use both on pcs and macs AND i've had iTunes as long as it's been released to PC and it's never crashed, whereas everything else has... these components are remarkable pieces of technology. so back off of apple 
QUOTE (go fish+Feb 7 2005, 06:33 AM)
I'm wondering if the Napster installation installed this MSNMA? If it did, then the uninstall of Napster should have removed MSNMA, but did not.
And you thought REAL was heavy on the Spyware ;-)
Of course Napster installs Microsoft stuff -- who do you think is paying for the $30 million ad campaign.
Jeez, there's one born every minute :-)
And you thought REAL was heavy on the Spyware ;-)
Of course Napster installs Microsoft stuff -- who do you think is paying for the $30 million ad campaign.
Jeez, there's one born every minute :-)
QUOTE (Singapore Time+Feb 6 2005, 09:41 PM)
Napster - Apple...
Apple has the great design but it's always more expensive on a performace vs cost basis.
The beauty of capitalism: competition
How can anyone complain about Napster coming in and giving Apple some price pressure!? Doesn't make sense. Let's hope costs continue to drop and we can get an option of buying forever what we want and renting the stuff we don't.
That won't happen! You nuts? you think that companies will simply drop raking in a monthly mountain of money for a one time price? that's the beauty of capitalism... Why have your customers frequent you with money once when you can have them drop some money on you monthly? lol!
You want to pay for music once and keep it for life? Buy a CD or purchase tracks from iTunes and back them up on a cd. Music should not be a service you pay for per month like energy or phone service... DON'T BUY INTO IT!
Apple has the great design but it's always more expensive on a performace vs cost basis.
The beauty of capitalism: competition
How can anyone complain about Napster coming in and giving Apple some price pressure!? Doesn't make sense. Let's hope costs continue to drop and we can get an option of buying forever what we want and renting the stuff we don't.
That won't happen! You nuts? you think that companies will simply drop raking in a monthly mountain of money for a one time price? that's the beauty of capitalism... Why have your customers frequent you with money once when you can have them drop some money on you monthly? lol!
You want to pay for music once and keep it for life? Buy a CD or purchase tracks from iTunes and back them up on a cd. Music should not be a service you pay for per month like energy or phone service... DON'T BUY INTO IT!
Won't work? Ever heard of netflix? Same concept. If people will pay every month to rent unlimited movies, they'll do the same for music. Apple's itunes will be dead 5 years from now. They never learn. Just like they had the lead with the apple 2 pc and the macintosh and lost it all to ibm and microsoft...they're making the same proprietary mistakes all over again. They gotta open up the itunes system to run on other maker's devices or they'll be dead.
Mark
My
Words.
Mark
My
Words.
No thank you, I will stick to my iPod. When you stop paying, all the songs are gone as well as your money. You will be better off paying for your songs and It will be yours to keep forever.
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