Hi all,
I thought I'd start a thread about the subject of Music as prompted by DuzmA in response to an exchange in another thread.
Please feel free to post your thoughts on the subject.
I'm curious to know what impact Music has on people, past, present and future.
Also the origins of Music, biologically, historically etc.
What does Science make of the subject?
What does it do to our minds?
Is there a link with mathematics?
On a lighter note, if you just want to discuss your favorite genre, song, artist then I'm happy to indulge. If you are a musician yourself then it would be fascinating to learn about your experiences.
Thanks and kindest regards
Wasn't sure which thread to respond to, might as well start here. 
I played guitar and harmonica with a group of guys while in college. Blues and country mostly, there were 12 of us who played but rarely all at the same time. Our practice sessions were on stage when we were sober enough. We played on weekends at the local bars for thirty bucks each and all the beer we could drink. It was a lot of fun but I haven't played much in years.
One of my favorite movies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_Is_Born
Not long on plot but great music. Check it out if you're into old jazz/blues!
I played guitar and harmonica with a group of guys while in college. Blues and country mostly, there were 12 of us who played but rarely all at the same time. Our practice sessions were on stage when we were sober enough. We played on weekends at the local bars for thirty bucks each and all the beer we could drink. It was a lot of fun but I haven't played much in years.
One of my favorite movies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_Is_Born
Not long on plot but great music. Check it out if you're into old jazz/blues!
My all time favourite is the Satch.
And thank you very very much Sinister Utopia. In linking to his wikipedia page I just discovered he published a new albulm two weeks ago : Professor Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock
And thank you very very much Sinister Utopia. In linking to his wikipedia page I just discovered he published a new albulm two weeks ago : Professor Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Apr 14 2008, 05:05 PM)
Wasn't sure which thread to respond to, might as well start here.
I played guitar and harmonica with a group of guys while in college. Blues and country mostly, there were 12 of us who played but rarely all at the same time. Our practice sessions were on stage when we were sober enough. We played on weekends at the local bars for thirty bucks each and all the beer we could drink. It was a lot of fun but I haven't played much in years.
One of my favorite movies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_Is_Born
Not long on plot but great music. Check it out if you're into old jazz/blues!
Hi All,
xtrmn8r, Wow what a great choice! I must admit I new nothing of this movie until just now, however I have always enjoyed Armstrong.
Interesting that you like Jazz. It is always my 1st choice too. I tend to lean more towards 70's fusion. People like Herbie Hancock, Mahavishnu and Lalo Schifirin (score) etc, But there is something amazing about guys like Armstrong and his peers.
The level of skill required to perform like these guys that make it look so easy, is astonishing.
Heres a nice clip I found of that film:
Yes A song is born
Thank you!
Kind regards
ps: It was embarrassing to realize I'd accidentally started duplicate threads
Any ideas how to delete them?
I played guitar and harmonica with a group of guys while in college. Blues and country mostly, there were 12 of us who played but rarely all at the same time. Our practice sessions were on stage when we were sober enough. We played on weekends at the local bars for thirty bucks each and all the beer we could drink. It was a lot of fun but I haven't played much in years.
One of my favorite movies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_Is_Born
Not long on plot but great music. Check it out if you're into old jazz/blues!
Hi All,
xtrmn8r, Wow what a great choice! I must admit I new nothing of this movie until just now, however I have always enjoyed Armstrong.
Interesting that you like Jazz. It is always my 1st choice too. I tend to lean more towards 70's fusion. People like Herbie Hancock, Mahavishnu and Lalo Schifirin (score) etc, But there is something amazing about guys like Armstrong and his peers.
The level of skill required to perform like these guys that make it look so easy, is astonishing.
Heres a nice clip I found of that film:
Yes A song is born
Thank you!
Kind regards
ps: It was embarrassing to realize I'd accidentally started duplicate threads
Any ideas how to delete them?
QUOTE (N O M+Apr 14 2008, 08:19 PM)
My all time favourite is the Satch.
Hi NOM,
A Satch fan eh? He is a great guitarist. I'll be honest that I do not know alot about his work, but it was always apparent that he was technically brilliant.
I guess I've not been drawn into that clinical rock style, so what would you consider to be quintessential listening to understand his work better, ie; what track or album would you recommend?
Also what is it about his music that you like so much?
Your welcome!
Thanks and kind regards
Hi NOM,
A Satch fan eh? He is a great guitarist. I'll be honest that I do not know alot about his work, but it was always apparent that he was technically brilliant.
I guess I've not been drawn into that clinical rock style, so what would you consider to be quintessential listening to understand his work better, ie; what track or album would you recommend?
Also what is it about his music that you like so much?
QUOTE
And thank you very very much Sinister Utopia. In linking to his wikipedia page I just discovered he published a new albulm two weeks ago : Professor Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock
Your welcome!
Thanks and kind regards
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Apr 14 2008, 05:05 PM)
I played guitar and harmonica with a group of guys while in college. Blues and country mostly, there were 12 of us who played but rarely all at the same time. Our practice sessions were on stage when we were sober enough. We played on weekends at the local bars for thirty bucks each and all the beer we could drink. It was a lot of fun but I haven't played much in years.
Hi again, sorry I got so carried away with 'A song is born' that I forgot to ask why you have stopped playing?
I've got a couple of Harmonica's that were given to me but I can barely blow a note.
You have reminded me to start practicing again though!
Cheers
Hi again, sorry I got so carried away with 'A song is born' that I forgot to ask why you have stopped playing?
I've got a couple of Harmonica's that were given to me but I can barely blow a note.
You have reminded me to start practicing again though!
Cheers
Hi Sinister Utopia
That IS a great name for a rock band
I still play from time to time, mostly for my own amazement, it's good stress relief.
I was never really that good, I knew I wouldn't make a living at it so I had to get a job.
As for the harp, concentrate on the #3,#4 and #6 holes in any key for cross harppin' the blues. Use a harp four full steps from the key of the song. D in the Key of A, A for the key of E...etc. Practice, practice, practice
That IS a great name for a rock band
I still play from time to time, mostly for my own amazement, it's good stress relief.
I was never really that good, I knew I wouldn't make a living at it so I had to get a job.
As for the harp, concentrate on the #3,#4 and #6 holes in any key for cross harppin' the blues. Use a harp four full steps from the key of the song. D in the Key of A, A for the key of E...etc. Practice, practice, practice
Nice to see some real science posted
Sitting in Church when I was a younger lad, the preacher said something about the King.
Without thinking, I shouted out (I thought Elvis was the King)
It was quite and then laughter from all but Mrs Beverly.
She was known as the queen of strictness.
She said drinking out of the new soda cans was a sin, because it looked like a beer can.
I too would like to know the science of rock and roll.
Sitting in Church when I was a younger lad, the preacher said something about the King.
Without thinking, I shouted out (I thought Elvis was the King)
It was quite and then laughter from all but Mrs Beverly.
She was known as the queen of strictness. She said drinking out of the new soda cans was a sin, because it looked like a beer can.
I too would like to know the science of rock and roll.
I'm glad to see that you started a thread on this topic=)
Music has always been a friend to me, and I keep it playing virtually all of the time (in appropriate situations of course). It helps me relax and it also can help my creativity at times.
I have a wide range of musical interests but I am mainly into rock and its sub genres. I don't really have a 'favorite' artist and I listen to so many that it would be very hard for me to even narrow it down to a top ten but I'll list the things that I currently have in my car CD changer to grant an idea.
Grails - Burning Off Impurities
Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction
The Rolling Stones - Some greatest hits compilation
Fair to Midland - Fables From a Mayfly
Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals
Tool- Aenima
I admit that some of these have been in the played for a while since I normally have an Ipod hooked up, but I do like all of them.
I don't have a favorite song either but for the sake of discussion I do happen to think that All Along the Watchtower is one of the best songs ever written.
P.S I play drums and guitar.
Music has always been a friend to me, and I keep it playing virtually all of the time (in appropriate situations of course). It helps me relax and it also can help my creativity at times.
I have a wide range of musical interests but I am mainly into rock and its sub genres. I don't really have a 'favorite' artist and I listen to so many that it would be very hard for me to even narrow it down to a top ten but I'll list the things that I currently have in my car CD changer to grant an idea.
Grails - Burning Off Impurities
Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction
The Rolling Stones - Some greatest hits compilation
Fair to Midland - Fables From a Mayfly
Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals
Tool- Aenima
I admit that some of these have been in the played for a while since I normally have an Ipod hooked up, but I do like all of them.
I don't have a favorite song either but for the sake of discussion I do happen to think that All Along the Watchtower is one of the best songs ever written.
P.S I play drums and guitar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix4TNJvVk8M
Check this out
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitarsolo.html
And this top 100 guitar solos. Jimi's All Along The Watchtower is #3
Check this out
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitarsolo.html
And this top 100 guitar solos. Jimi's All Along The Watchtower is #3
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 15 2008, 09:32 AM)
A Satch fan eh? He is a great guitarist. I'll be honest that I do not know alot about his work, but it was always apparent that he was technically brilliant.
I guess I've not been drawn into that clinical rock style, so what would you consider to be quintessential listening to understand his work better, ie; what track or album would you recommend?
Also what is it about his music that you like so much?
Why do I like his music? Um... mostly because it's the best "tune out" music. Not sure what I'd recomend the most, his music varies from metal to blues and even :choke: "a little bit country and a little bit rock and roll". I don't actually have a favourite track, since it all depends on the mood I'm in.
On my other music tastes. The best live band I ever saw was Ultravox, second would be Pink Floyd. My favourite recent band is Disturbed.
I guess I've not been drawn into that clinical rock style, so what would you consider to be quintessential listening to understand his work better, ie; what track or album would you recommend?
Also what is it about his music that you like so much?
Why do I like his music? Um... mostly because it's the best "tune out" music. Not sure what I'd recomend the most, his music varies from metal to blues and even :choke: "a little bit country and a little bit rock and roll". I don't actually have a favourite track, since it all depends on the mood I'm in.
On my other music tastes. The best live band I ever saw was Ultravox, second would be Pink Floyd. My favourite recent band is Disturbed.
Lynyrd Skynyrd (was) is the best band.
Freebird!
Speaking of neanderthals...
Was this a flute?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divje_Babe
If so, it's evidence of music (and the diatonic scale) from over 40,000 years ago.
Speaking of neanderthals...
Was this a flute?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divje_Babe
If so, it's evidence of music (and the diatonic scale) from over 40,000 years ago.
QUOTE (gmilam+Apr 15 2008, 03:39 AM)
Freebird!
Speaking of neanderthals...
Hey,
That's Southern Rock. What are you a Yankee or a foreigner?
Speaking of neanderthals...
Hey,
That's Southern Rock. What are you a Yankee or a foreigner?
QUOTE (Derek1148+Apr 14 2008, 10:45 PM)
Hey,
That's Southern Rock. What are you a Yankee or a foreigner?
And your point is?
EDIT: Actually, Skynyrd had some good stuff. I just couldn't resist the great segue
That's Southern Rock. What are you a Yankee or a foreigner?
And your point is?
EDIT: Actually, Skynyrd had some good stuff. I just couldn't resist the great segue
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+)
Hi Sinister Utopia
That IS a great name for a rock band
Thankyou! I'm a bit clueless when it comes to naming things or differentiating between genres, however I have given it some thought. Glad you like the name.
Yes, I'm familiar with this scenario
I tried to make money from music for a while, however for me it was more that I enjoyed making the music that I wanted to make and not for a certain demographic. (which is what most Record company's demand)
So I decided to get a separate Job and make Music more of a hobby. I think I'm happier that way. Ironically I've had more professional success since it became a hobby.
Do you feel happier making Music just for fun or relaxation etc?
Yes, I'm familiar with this scenario I tried to make money from music for a while, however for me it was more that I enjoyed making the music that I wanted to make and not for a certain demographic. (which is what most Record company's demand)
So I decided to get a separate Job and make Music more of a hobby. I think I'm happier that way. Ironically I've had more professional success since it became a hobby.
Do you feel happier making Music just for fun or relaxation etc?
As for the harp, concentrate on the #3,#4 and #6 holes in any key for cross harppin' the blues. Use a harp four full steps from the key of the song. D in the Key of A, A for the key of E...etc. Practice, practice, practice
Thanks for the tips, I fear they may be lost on me at this stage, except for the practice, practice, practice, now that I understand.
That IS a great name for a rock band
Thankyou! I'm a bit clueless when it comes to naming things or differentiating between genres, however I have given it some thought. Glad you like the name.
QUOTE
I still play from time to time, mostly for my own amazement, it's good stress relief.
I was never really that good, I knew I wouldn't make a living at it so I had to get a job.
I was never really that good, I knew I wouldn't make a living at it so I had to get a job.
Yes, I'm familiar with this scenario
I tried to make money from music for a while, however for me it was more that I enjoyed making the music that I wanted to make and not for a certain demographic. (which is what most Record company's demand)So I decided to get a separate Job and make Music more of a hobby. I think I'm happier that way. Ironically I've had more professional success since it became a hobby.
Do you feel happier making Music just for fun or relaxation etc?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I still play from time to time, mostly for my own amazement, it's good stress relief. I was never really that good, I knew I wouldn't make a living at it so I had to get a job. |
Yes, I'm familiar with this scenario
I tried to make money from music for a while, however for me it was more that I enjoyed making the music that I wanted to make and not for a certain demographic. (which is what most Record company's demand)So I decided to get a separate Job and make Music more of a hobby. I think I'm happier that way. Ironically I've had more professional success since it became a hobby.
Do you feel happier making Music just for fun or relaxation etc?
As for the harp, concentrate on the #3,#4 and #6 holes in any key for cross harppin' the blues. Use a harp four full steps from the key of the song. D in the Key of A, A for the key of E...etc. Practice, practice, practice
Thanks for the tips, I fear they may be lost on me at this stage, except for the practice, practice, practice, now that I understand.
Don't forget that music wouldn't be 'music' without the Space between the notes! Nice!
And the rest of existence is often quite 'musical' as well. Blackbirds are wonderful musicians. (especially Ella Fitzgerald! )
g.
Nice!And the rest of existence is often quite 'musical' as well. Blackbirds are wonderful musicians. (especially Ella Fitzgerald!
)g.
Mr. Crowley, won't you ride my white horse?
Mr. Crowley, it's symbolic of course,
Approaching a time that is classic
I hear that maidens call.
Approaching a time that is drastic,
Standing with their backs to the wall.
Mr. Crowley, it's symbolic of course,
Approaching a time that is classic
I hear that maidens call.
Approaching a time that is drastic,
Standing with their backs to the wall.
Hi All,
Sinister Utopia,
At this point I only play songs by request from friends at parties, mostly I play WITH the guitar. I have an antique 4 channel cassette recorder that I play my own compositions to, it's a lot of work and I don't always have time to polish them up, but they are very simple riffs and hooks. The blues is easier than jazz
DuzmA,
I was never a real Black Sabbath fan, but Ozzie sure made a name for himself.
gmilam,
Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs.
Sinister Utopia,
QUOTE
Do you feel happier making Music just for fun or relaxation etc?
At this point I only play songs by request from friends at parties, mostly I play WITH the guitar. I have an antique 4 channel cassette recorder that I play my own compositions to, it's a lot of work and I don't always have time to polish them up, but they are very simple riffs and hooks. The blues is easier than jazz
DuzmA,
I was never a real Black Sabbath fan, but Ozzie sure made a name for himself.
gmilam,
Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs.
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Apr 15 2008, 11:41 PM)
Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree with everything except Molly Hatchet=p
Hi all,
DuzmA,
Thanks for the suggestion!
Thanks for the suggestion!
Music has always been a friend to me, and I keep it playing virtually all of the time (in appropriate situations of course). It helps me relax and it also can help my creativity at times.
I believe a great many people feel the same way (myself included)
In regards to the relaxation aspect, what do you suppose is the cause? in other words what it is it about Music that is relaxing to you?
Incidentally Music has been known to alter the mood of other Animals as well.
I'll have to checkout: Fair to Midland & Grails, but the others I am familiar with. I particularly like the band 'Tool'.
I'll have to checkout: Fair to Midland & Grails, but the others I am familiar with. I particularly like the band 'Tool'.
I don't have a favorite song either but for the sake of discussion I do happen to think that All Along the Watchtower is one of the best songs ever written.
P.S I play drums and guitar.
It's a great song. He was a big influence on the World for many reasons.
My favorite Hendrix lyrics:
Woman so pretty, your sweet cause in vein,
You make love, you break love it's all the same,
Music, sweet Music, I wish I could caress, caress,
Manic depression, is a frustrating mess.
I discovered more about myself after thinking about these words carefully.
Kind regards and thanks for the sharing!
Was this a flute?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divje_Babe
If so, it's evidence of music (and the diatonic scale) from over 40,000 years ago.
Seems like the jury is still out on this one. Fascinating prospect though, if true.
That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
And the rest of existence is often quite 'musical' as well. Blackbirds are wonderful musicians. (especially Ella Fitzgerald! )
g.
Nice!
That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
Nice!
Yeah, well don't think you're gonna get to investigate MY womb! - Only kidding sweetie... "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!" 
...no, stop it now...
Wild!
g.
Duane Allman's friend and roomate, known as Rhino, was guitarist for Iron Butterfly when they disbanded. In 1972 he and Butterfly bassist Lee Dorman hooked up with original Deep Purple singer Rod Evans and this amazing drummer named Andy Caldwell. and formed one of the best bands nobody's heard of called Captain Beyond. The best way I could describe it is Southern psychedelic spacemetal. It's well worth trying to find it. Self-titled with 3D cover.
Duane Allman's friend and roomate, known as Rhino, was guitarist for Iron Butterfly when they disbanded. In 1972 he and Butterfly bassist Lee Dorman hooked up with original Deep Purple singer Rod Evans and this amazing drummer named Andy Caldwell. and formed one of the best bands nobody's heard of called Captain Beyond. The best way I could describe it is Southern psychedelic spacemetal. It's well worth trying to find it. Self-titled with 3D cover.
It wouldn't surprise me if neanderthal man had discovered it too.
He had no choice. It was all around him. Fellow creatures, rain, wind, waterway and thunder first. Hollow logs/trees, ringing rocks, echo valleys, chambers accentuating resonant frequencies/reverb, it wasn't long before voices and percussion were jamming in the 'best' caves and valleys. Thumbs, ears, intelligence, we were soon all over it . The first audio effect device was a reverb, the second was a tape echo - those caves and valleys still 'resonate' in our psyche!
Yes, Well said.
Do you have any thoughts on why these abilities came about?
I did go to see Carol Burnett live at the center. She was great in her skin tights. It was a one night seating, and me and two other people bought her T shirt. She almost sang something. More like a comedy show
Sounds more like a strip show!
Look, THIS is what happens when you give stevenA tablas instead of a keyboard to type on...
g.
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I just want to see that paragraph written again.
Like xtrmn8r I think I have never seen such beautiful description written.
DuzmA,
QUOTE
I'm glad to see that you started a thread on this topic=)
Thanks for the suggestion!
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I'm glad to see that you started a thread on this topic=) |
Thanks for the suggestion!
Music has always been a friend to me, and I keep it playing virtually all of the time (in appropriate situations of course). It helps me relax and it also can help my creativity at times.
I believe a great many people feel the same way (myself included)
In regards to the relaxation aspect, what do you suppose is the cause? in other words what it is it about Music that is relaxing to you?
Incidentally Music has been known to alter the mood of other Animals as well.
QUOTE
Grails - Burning Off Impurities
Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction
The Rolling Stones - Some greatest hits compilation
Fair to Midland - Fables From a Mayfly
Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals
Tool- Aenima
I admit that some of these have been in the played for a while since I normally have an Ipod hooked up, but I do like all of them.
Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction
The Rolling Stones - Some greatest hits compilation
Fair to Midland - Fables From a Mayfly
Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals
Tool- Aenima
I admit that some of these have been in the played for a while since I normally have an Ipod hooked up, but I do like all of them.
I'll have to checkout: Fair to Midland & Grails, but the others I am familiar with. I particularly like the band 'Tool'.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Grails - Burning Off Impurities Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction The Rolling Stones - Some greatest hits compilation Fair to Midland - Fables From a Mayfly Marilyn Manson - Mechanical Animals Tool- Aenima I admit that some of these have been in the played for a while since I normally have an Ipod hooked up, but I do like all of them. |
I'll have to checkout: Fair to Midland & Grails, but the others I am familiar with. I particularly like the band 'Tool'.
I don't have a favorite song either but for the sake of discussion I do happen to think that All Along the Watchtower is one of the best songs ever written.
P.S I play drums and guitar.
It's a great song. He was a big influence on the World for many reasons.
My favorite Hendrix lyrics:
Woman so pretty, your sweet cause in vein,
You make love, you break love it's all the same,
Music, sweet Music, I wish I could caress, caress,
Manic depression, is a frustrating mess.
I discovered more about myself after thinking about these words carefully.
Kind regards and thanks for the sharing!
Sinister utopia,
For me, when I play I have to concentrate on what I'm doing and when I listen (I mean REALLY get into) music, everything else takes a back seat to that time. Nothing else matters at that moment, I'm too busy watching the show in my head.
QUOTE
In regards to the relaxation aspect, what do you suppose is the cause? in other words what it is it about Music that is relaxing to you?
For me, when I play I have to concentrate on what I'm doing and when I listen (I mean REALLY get into) music, everything else takes a back seat to that time. Nothing else matters at that moment, I'm too busy watching the show in my head.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 14 2008, 12:28 PM)
Also the origins of Music, biologically, historically etc.
What does Science make of the subject?
What does it do to our minds?
Is there a link with mathematics?
Without music there is no understanding: I know that because every sentence I hear degenerates into a series of musical notes after a few minutes and the meaning of the words that were spoken simply disappears. Somehow the decoding the sounds of language into inner-language understanding got into my conscious mind, though the process is still a mystery to me.
I am afraid that is all I have to say about the subject!
What does Science make of the subject?
What does it do to our minds?
Is there a link with mathematics?
Without music there is no understanding: I know that because every sentence I hear degenerates into a series of musical notes after a few minutes and the meaning of the words that were spoken simply disappears. Somehow the decoding the sounds of language into inner-language understanding got into my conscious mind, though the process is still a mystery to me.
I am afraid that is all I have to say about the subject!
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Apr 15 2008, 06:41 PM)
Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs.
I'm from Texas, trust me I enjoy Southern rock. I do prefer the Dregs or Allmans over most of the others. But I do have a couple of Skynyrd tunes in my songbook.
On the topic of why I play music:
I done my time playing in bands for money. It's OK - but it can turn music into a "job". I already have one of those. These days (I'm 50) I've gotten out of the every weekend club scene. I just play what I enjoy, when I want. I can still get gigs when I feel the need to get out and perform. They may not pay much more than tips and beer, but it's fun.
For me, not trying to "turn it into something" has brought the initial enjoyment and magic back.
I'm from Texas, trust me I enjoy Southern rock. I do prefer the Dregs or Allmans over most of the others. But I do have a couple of Skynyrd tunes in my songbook.
On the topic of why I play music:
I done my time playing in bands for money. It's OK - but it can turn music into a "job". I already have one of those. These days (I'm 50) I've gotten out of the every weekend club scene. I just play what I enjoy, when I want. I can still get gigs when I feel the need to get out and perform. They may not pay much more than tips and beer, but it's fun.
For me, not trying to "turn it into something" has brought the initial enjoyment and magic back.
QUOTE (gmilam+Apr 15 2008, 03:39 AM)
Was this a flute?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divje_Babe
If so, it's evidence of music (and the diatonic scale) from over 40,000 years ago.
Seems like the jury is still out on this one. Fascinating prospect though, if true.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 16 2008, 09:32 AM)
Seems like the jury is still out on this one. Fascinating prospect though, if true.
Yeah, I don't think of music as an invention, but more like a discovery. Harmonies and scales already exist in "nature". It wouldn't surprise me if neanderthal man had discovered it too.
Yeah, I don't think of music as an invention, but more like a discovery. Harmonies and scales already exist in "nature". It wouldn't surprise me if neanderthal man had discovered it too.
QUOTE (gmilam+Apr 16 2008, 02:27 PM)
For me, not trying to "turn it into something" has brought the initial enjoyment and magic back.
Yes, I would agree with that from my own personal experience. There is 'Music' and there is the 'Music industry'. I just don't seem to possess the required business urge to exploit Music for profit, however business is business and so a personal choice was necessary. Compromising what one wants to play (in my case, write) as you rightfully acknowledge can remove the enjoyment. Creativity may also have to be sacrificed in order to pander.
Where I do willfully compromise is when I'm working with other Artists, particularly in regards to Scoring for Film. The director calls the shots, as it's often their vision. Hopefully a director would pick me to score because of my show reel and thus understand what I'm about, unfortunately all too often I'm picked because I work dirt cheap!
Yes, I would agree with that from my own personal experience. There is 'Music' and there is the 'Music industry'. I just don't seem to possess the required business urge to exploit Music for profit, however business is business and so a personal choice was necessary. Compromising what one wants to play (in my case, write) as you rightfully acknowledge can remove the enjoyment. Creativity may also have to be sacrificed in order to pander.
Where I do willfully compromise is when I'm working with other Artists, particularly in regards to Scoring for Film. The director calls the shots, as it's often their vision. Hopefully a director would pick me to score because of my show reel and thus understand what I'm about, unfortunately all too often I'm picked because I work dirt cheap!
QUOTE
Don't forget that music wouldn't be 'music' without the Space between the notes! Nice!
Nice! That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Don't forget that music wouldn't be 'music' without the Space between the notes! Nice! |
That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
And the rest of existence is often quite 'musical' as well. Blackbirds are wonderful musicians. (especially Ella Fitzgerald!
)g.
Nice!
These mist-covered mountains
are a home now for me.
But your home is in the lowlands
and it always will be.
Someday you'll return
to your valleys and your farms
and you'll no longer burn
to be brothers in arms.
Dire Straits
As a piece of poetry I think this, and the rest of the song, beautifully describes what generations of men and women have gone through in forgotten wars across places and times. It can stand by itself. But when you add the music that goes with it the experience seems to become fuller. It feels like more of you is involved with the idea.
For example. "Our bodies are made from products created by stars." Very interesting. Take a toke and it becomes, "Wow, man! That's heavy." The idea is felt more intensely. I think music does the same thing without the side effects, such as goofiness.
I know this is all obvious but it's interesting to think how a plucked string could move air, which moves a diaphragm, which moves hairs, which makes electricity, which releases molecules to make you say "Ahh" but the same process, initiated by a breaking plate, makes you say "S---"
are a home now for me.
But your home is in the lowlands
and it always will be.
Someday you'll return
to your valleys and your farms
and you'll no longer burn
to be brothers in arms.
Dire Straits
As a piece of poetry I think this, and the rest of the song, beautifully describes what generations of men and women have gone through in forgotten wars across places and times. It can stand by itself. But when you add the music that goes with it the experience seems to become fuller. It feels like more of you is involved with the idea.
For example. "Our bodies are made from products created by stars." Very interesting. Take a toke and it becomes, "Wow, man! That's heavy." The idea is felt more intensely. I think music does the same thing without the side effects, such as goofiness.
I know this is all obvious but it's interesting to think how a plucked string could move air, which moves a diaphragm, which moves hairs, which makes electricity, which releases molecules to make you say "Ahh" but the same process, initiated by a breaking plate, makes you say "S---"
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 16 2008, 05:11 PM)
That's very 'Jazz Philosophical' of you. (IMO) The space in between the notes is the most important aspect of rhythm & melody that I believe is linked to the Heartbeat and possibly is first encountered in the womb. This is the kind of territory that I am investigating.
Nice! Yeah, well don't think you're gonna get to investigate MY womb!
- Only kidding sweetie... "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!" ...no, stop it now...Wild!
g.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Apr 16 2008, 10:15 PM)
"Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!"
Brace yourself
Brace yourself
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 16 2008, 11:33 PM)
Brace yourself
"Ooh, you are awful, but I like you!" - D i c k Emery (Ouch!)
g.
"Ooh, you are awful, but I like you!" - D i c k Emery (Ouch!)
g.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Apr 17 2008, 01:07 AM)
"Ooh, you are awful, but I like you!" - D i c k Emery (Ouch!)
g.
He did have remarkably large hands for a lady
g.
He did have remarkably large hands for a lady
QUOTE
Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs.
Duane Allman's friend and roomate, known as Rhino, was guitarist for Iron Butterfly when they disbanded. In 1972 he and Butterfly bassist Lee Dorman hooked up with original Deep Purple singer Rod Evans and this amazing drummer named Andy Caldwell. and formed one of the best bands nobody's heard of called Captain Beyond. The best way I could describe it is Southern psychedelic spacemetal. It's well worth trying to find it. Self-titled with 3D cover.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Nothin' wrong with Southern Rock!! I prefer The Allman Bros., but also liked .38 Special, Molly Hatchet, even Dixie Dregs. |
Duane Allman's friend and roomate, known as Rhino, was guitarist for Iron Butterfly when they disbanded. In 1972 he and Butterfly bassist Lee Dorman hooked up with original Deep Purple singer Rod Evans and this amazing drummer named Andy Caldwell. and formed one of the best bands nobody's heard of called Captain Beyond. The best way I could describe it is Southern psychedelic spacemetal. It's well worth trying to find it. Self-titled with 3D cover.
It wouldn't surprise me if neanderthal man had discovered it too.
He had no choice. It was all around him. Fellow creatures, rain, wind, waterway and thunder first. Hollow logs/trees, ringing rocks, echo valleys, chambers accentuating resonant frequencies/reverb, it wasn't long before voices and percussion were jamming in the 'best' caves and valleys. Thumbs, ears, intelligence, we were soon all over it
. The first audio effect device was a reverb, the second was a tape echo - those caves and valleys still 'resonate' in our psyche!
QUOTE
He had no choice. It was all around him. Fellow creatures, rain, wind, waterway and thunder first. Hollow logs/trees, ringing rocks, echo valleys, chambers accentuating resonant frequencies/reverb, it wasn't long before voices and percussion were jamming in the 'best' caves and valleys. Thumbs, ears, intelligence, we were soon all over it . The first audio effect device was a reverb, the second was a tape echo - those caves and valleys still 'resonate' in our psyche!
. The first audio effect device was a reverb, the second was a tape echo - those caves and valleys still 'resonate' in our psyche! Yes, Well said.
Do you have any thoughts on why these abilities came about?
Hi soundhertz,
I'm..uh... listening to...ummm, wow, like..ah.. Captan Beyond as I type this..like Farout Man.
Sounds like a cross between Vanilla Fudge and James Gang..Groovy
I'm..uh... listening to...ummm, wow, like..ah.. Captan Beyond as I type this..like Farout Man.
Sounds like a cross between Vanilla Fudge and James Gang..Groovy
There is something in Science Daily today about Geometry and music. If I knew how to do it I would of brought it here. "Music has its own geometry" is the name of the article. April 18.
Here ya go orestis
Analyzing Music
You can right click on the web address, and then use copy link location.
You may not have enough posts yet to be able to paste links.
Thanks
Analyzing Music
You can right click on the web address, and then use copy link location.
You may not have enough posts yet to be able to paste links.
Thanks
Thanks rethinker.
Good thread!
On a mathemathical note: I can't cite source without more effort and coffee right now, but somewhere I read an article about some of the Rosslyn Chapel's stone rosettes being Chladni diagrams. Someone made music from them?
On a mathemathical note:
I can't cite source without more effort and coffee right now, but somewhere I read an article about some of the Rosslyn Chapel's stone rosettes being Chladni diagrams. Someone made music from them?
QUOTE (rethinker+Apr 19 2008, 05:56 AM)
Here ya go orestis
Analyzing Music
You can right click on the web address, and then use copy link location.
You may not have enough posts yet to be able to paste links.
Thanks
Fascinating research. I'd love to be involved. Great link orestis and rethinker!
Just reading that summary alone seems to confirm a few hunches of my own.
That's always nice.
I think my interests stems from the fact that I am a self taught Musician. I post music to a few free websites for review and feedback by other users. I received some comments by different people at different times where they inquired whether or not I was some kind of mathematician? Which surprised me as I find Maths very difficult. When reading some of the more Mathematical threads on this site for instance I am easily lost. The numbers, letters and equations seem to merge and make my head spin. Yet many of my keener interests all seem to involve loads of Math.
Equally I find Music theory very perplexing, yet I have managed to write score for Orchestra (with the aid of a computer) and received positive feedback from seasoned pro's. Why am I able to do this? Why is my Music particularly mathematical to listeners?
My own theory is that I must somehow visualize sound and translate it back into Music perhaps.
Hmm..Not sure, oh well
Kind regards
Analyzing Music
You can right click on the web address, and then use copy link location.
You may not have enough posts yet to be able to paste links.
Thanks
Fascinating research. I'd love to be involved. Great link orestis and rethinker!
Just reading that summary alone seems to confirm a few hunches of my own.
That's always nice.
I think my interests stems from the fact that I am a self taught Musician. I post music to a few free websites for review and feedback by other users. I received some comments by different people at different times where they inquired whether or not I was some kind of mathematician? Which surprised me as I find Maths very difficult. When reading some of the more Mathematical threads on this site for instance I am easily lost. The numbers, letters and equations seem to merge and make my head spin.
Yet many of my keener interests all seem to involve loads of Math. Equally I find Music theory very perplexing, yet I have managed to write score for Orchestra (with the aid of a computer) and received positive feedback from seasoned pro's. Why am I able to do this? Why is my Music particularly mathematical to listeners?
My own theory is that I must somehow visualize sound and translate it back into Music perhaps.
Hmm..Not sure, oh well
Kind regards
QUOTE (Sapo+Apr 19 2008, 09:29 AM)
Good thread!
On a mathemathical note: I can't cite source without more effort and coffee right now, but somewhere I read an article about some of the Rosslyn Chapel's stone rosettes being Chladni diagrams. Someone made music from them?
As I recall someone tried to decipher the stone rosettes by putting sand or salt on a thin steel plate and stroking the side of the plate with a bow to get the sand to reproduce the patterns in hopes of discovering a musical code that when played it would open a gateway to another dimension. It failed, because he could not duplicate the stone carvings that way.
My musical history.
I played keyboards for about 15 years. (late 70's mid 80's) I had a Yamaha PS5 and a mini Moog. I was right at home with Pink Floyd, but not worth a toot on a piano. I never really felt like what I was doing was making music. It was more like sound effects or just a series of memorized finger movements. I would have given anything to be able to play good enough to make a living at it. Now the arthritis in the fingers is too bad to even touch a set of keys. As a young buck I would sing back up but rarely lead. I would do lead on just about any Neil Diamond song and Seager's "Turn the Page" But the voice is also gone south and I hardly even hum along these days.
Musical tastes. Late 60's to mid (per disco) 70's rock music.
Neil Diamond, Carly Simon. Disco came out and I detested it. then came rap,, even worse. So I got stuck in a musical time line. Now after 35 years of the same 'ol stuff I am so bored with it that I don't even listen to music on the radio anymore. only talk radio.
On a mathemathical note:
I can't cite source without more effort and coffee right now, but somewhere I read an article about some of the Rosslyn Chapel's stone rosettes being Chladni diagrams. Someone made music from them?As I recall someone tried to decipher the stone rosettes by putting sand or salt on a thin steel plate and stroking the side of the plate with a bow to get the sand to reproduce the patterns in hopes of discovering a musical code that when played it would open a gateway to another dimension. It failed, because he could not duplicate the stone carvings that way.
My musical history.
I played keyboards for about 15 years. (late 70's mid 80's) I had a Yamaha PS5 and a mini Moog. I was right at home with Pink Floyd, but not worth a toot on a piano. I never really felt like what I was doing was making music. It was more like sound effects or just a series of memorized finger movements. I would have given anything to be able to play good enough to make a living at it. Now the arthritis in the fingers is too bad to even touch a set of keys. As a young buck I would sing back up but rarely lead. I would do lead on just about any Neil Diamond song and Seager's "Turn the Page" But the voice is also gone south and I hardly even hum along these days.
Musical tastes. Late 60's to mid (per disco) 70's rock music.
Neil Diamond, Carly Simon. Disco came out and I detested it. then came rap,, even worse. So I got stuck in a musical time line. Now after 35 years of the same 'ol stuff I am so bored with it that I don't even listen to music on the radio anymore. only talk radio.
Sounds like you could give the song (The thrill is gone) a go
I bang around on a piano and bump sticks on drums, but never got down to scratching on a guitar. A few have said I should of sent my picture to Ed Sullivan.but I never could see the point.
I did go to see Carol Burnett live at the center. She was great in her skin tights. It was a one night seating, and me and two other people bought her T shirt. She almost sang something. More like a comedy show
I bang around on a piano and bump sticks on drums, but never got down to scratching on a guitar. A few have said I should of sent my picture to Ed Sullivan.but I never could see the point.
I did go to see Carol Burnett live at the center. She was great in her skin tights. It was a one night seating, and me and two other people bought her T shirt. She almost sang something. More like a comedy show
QUOTE (rethinker+Apr 19 2008, 04:46 PM)
I did go to see Carol Burnett live at the center. She was great in her skin tights. It was a one night seating, and me and two other people bought her T shirt. She almost sang something. More like a comedy show
Sounds more like a strip show!
Look, THIS is what happens when you give stevenA tablas instead of a keyboard to type on...
g.
Hi All,
Sapo,
Yes they did. Everything you ever wanted to know on this subject here;
http://www.crystalinks.com/music_cubes.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/rosslynchapel.html
Sapo,
QUOTE
On a mathemathical note: I can't cite source without more effort and coffee right now, but somewhere I read an article about some of the Rosslyn Chapel's stone rosettes being Chladni diagrams. Someone made music from them?
Yes they did. Everything you ever wanted to know on this subject here;
http://www.crystalinks.com/music_cubes.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/rosslynchapel.html
I think the most powerful piece of music I've ever heard is Slight Return by Jimi Hendrix (Praised be his name.)
But there is something called Concerto de Aranjuez by Rodrigo and Fantasy on a Theam by Tallis. While Slight Return starts and stays powerfull, the other two build up to climax. In a sense Slight Return proclaims "Listen to who I am and what I bring! Tremble!"
The other two have a differnt kind of power that I just havent been able to understand yet.
But there is something called Concerto de Aranjuez by Rodrigo and Fantasy on a Theam by Tallis. While Slight Return starts and stays powerfull, the other two build up to climax. In a sense Slight Return proclaims "Listen to who I am and what I bring! Tremble!"
The other two have a differnt kind of power that I just havent been able to understand yet.
Since this is on Comments and Suggestions I suggest that Add Reply and Check Spelling have more room between them.
QUOTE (orestis+Apr 19 2008, 09:05 PM)
I think the most powerful piece of music I've ever heard is Slight Return by Jimi Hendrix (Praised be his name.)
Who is (was) the greatest guitarist? Jimmy Page?
Who is (was) the greatest guitarist? Jimmy Page?
QUOTE (Derek1148+Apr 19 2008, 09:40 PM)
Who is (was) the greatest guitarist? Jimmy Page?
Hmm, it's always an almost impossible task deciding who is best, as it's so subjective but if I had too then:
Well for the (is) answer probably John Mclauglin aka Mahavishnu Orchestra
The (was) answer is just too difficult but if I had too Hendrix.
Jimmy Page is up there as is Django.
I'm sure I'm missing someone important though
Hmm, it's always an almost impossible task deciding who is best, as it's so subjective but if I had too then:
Well for the (is) answer probably John Mclauglin aka Mahavishnu Orchestra
The (was) answer is just too difficult but if I had too Hendrix.
Jimmy Page is up there as is Django.
I'm sure I'm missing someone important though
So subjective. It can be opinion only; there are so many incredible guitarists out there it comes down to styles and phrasings. I have a pretty good lexicon since music has been my life, but still it's only opinion: For the most convoluted mutated jazz-metal that no one else can play it could be Allan Holdsworth. For most original crazed guitar that nobody else can play it could be Robert Fripp. And there's other crazed guys like David Torn, who was in an incredible band with Chris Botti, Bill Bruford and Tony Levin called Upper Extremities. What an album.
In the normal world I like Phil Keaggy. He seems to know what everyone else does combined, all wrapped up in one player.
In the normal world I like Phil Keaggy. He seems to know what everyone else does combined, all wrapped up in one player.
Hi soundhertz,
I'm not familiar with any of these except Fripp. To bad King Crimson went thru' sooooo many changes I liked there early stuff. I'll give the others a tumble... Thanx
I'm not familiar with any of these except Fripp. To bad King Crimson went thru' sooooo many changes I liked there early stuff. I'll give the others a tumble... Thanx
QUOTE (orestis+Apr 19 2008, 09:05 PM)
...But there is something called Concerto de Aranjuez by Rodrigo...
Good Lord!
That's one of my favorites!
I also like Dvorak's 9th symphony
. All of vivaldi's seasons
. J.S.B's Little Toccata
. J.S.B Air on the "G string" (HAH! G string)
.Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance march
And many more!! (most are uplifting classics)
I also like RNB!
Sandra
Good Lord!
That's one of my favorites!
I also like Dvorak's 9th symphony
. All of vivaldi's seasons
. J.S.B's Little Toccata
. J.S.B Air on the "G string" (HAH! G string)
.Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance march
And many more!! (most are uplifting classics)
I also like RNB!
Sandra
QUOTE (Sandra doliak+Apr 20 2008, 12:08 PM)
I also like RNB!
I don't
I don't
QUOTE (N O M+Apr 20 2008, 04:01 AM)
I don't
I assume by not including that you do not like classics, it means you like them?
Kind regards
Sandra
I assume by not including that you do not like classics, it means you like them?
Kind regards
Sandra
None of which is to answer the question of what music "means":
From a Gen Exer:
Nirvana, REM, Neil Young, Peter Gabriel, The Strokes, The Shins... Anyone ever heard of Cold Play?
But Bach, Beethoven and Chopin were no a**holes either.
For the Down Underer's on this board, gotta say I like Midnight Oil.
The Stone and the Beatles, I hope, go without saying, as does Marley. So too Coltrane and Miles, though Dr. John deserves a plug as does Nina Simone...
Great thread Sandra.
Best,
Raphie
From a Gen Exer:
Nirvana, REM, Neil Young, Peter Gabriel, The Strokes, The Shins... Anyone ever heard of Cold Play?
But Bach, Beethoven and Chopin were no a**holes either.
For the Down Underer's on this board, gotta say I like Midnight Oil.
The Stone and the Beatles, I hope, go without saying, as does Marley. So too Coltrane and Miles, though Dr. John deserves a plug as does Nina Simone...
Great thread Sandra.
Best,
Raphie
QUOTE (Sandra doliak+Apr 20 2008, 12:08 AM)
What IS music?
My wife is a musician (I am not) ..
It seems there are times when an orchestra mostly gets the notes in the right place and there are times when the performance 'catches fire' - we have never managed to define quite what 'fire' means in this context. As a solo piano player my wife's performances are somehow immensely powerful - I would say the word 'fire' is again appropriate. I think many people find her performances disturbing - certainly not what they expect. She remains totally 'unfamous' despite being by far the greatest musician I have ever heard play.
-C2.
My wife is a musician (I am not) ..
It seems there are times when an orchestra mostly gets the notes in the right place and there are times when the performance 'catches fire' - we have never managed to define quite what 'fire' means in this context. As a solo piano player my wife's performances are somehow immensely powerful - I would say the word 'fire' is again appropriate. I think many people find her performances disturbing - certainly not what they expect. She remains totally 'unfamous' despite being by far the greatest musician I have ever heard play.
-C2.
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Apr 19 2008, 02:59 PM)
Hi All,
Sapo,
Yes they did. Everything you ever wanted to know on this subject here;
http://www.crystalinks.com/music_cubes.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/rosslynchapel.html
xtrmn8r,
Hey, thanks for this link. I posted my reply from a foggy memory. I scanned the links and when I have enough time I will go back and jump in with both feet.
Sapo,
Yes they did. Everything you ever wanted to know on this subject here;
http://www.crystalinks.com/music_cubes.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/rosslynchapel.html
xtrmn8r,
Hey, thanks for this link. I posted my reply from a foggy memory. I scanned the links and when I have enough time I will go back and jump in with both feet.
For me, music is a very honest, valid transposition media for human emotion as words are often fake!
I weep at the beauty and brutal sensitivity of Tchaikovsky .... similarly drizzle my eyes off at the powerful love of Rachmaninov - and feel totally empowered by the strength and passion of Richard Wagner.
If you think I'm a classical wanker - sure! .... however, I totally dig hard rock too, only yesterday I discovered the ultimate intro; Deep Purple, "Speed King" 1972 live (Made in Japan) - made the hairs on the back of my neck ejaculate buckets!
p.s I truly believe Country and Western music is the septic malodorous work of Satan's stinky a$$-ring!
I weep at the beauty and brutal sensitivity of Tchaikovsky .... similarly drizzle my eyes off at the powerful love of Rachmaninov - and feel totally empowered by the strength and passion of Richard Wagner.
If you think I'm a classical wanker - sure! .... however, I totally dig hard rock too, only yesterday I discovered the ultimate intro; Deep Purple, "Speed King" 1972 live (Made in Japan) - made the hairs on the back of my neck ejaculate buckets!
p.s I truly believe Country and Western music is the septic malodorous work of Satan's stinky a$$-ring!
QUOTE (Confused2+Apr 20 2008, 07:21 AM)
What IS music?
My wife is a musician (I am not) ..
It seems there are times when an orchestra mostly gets the notes in the right place and there are times when the performance 'catches fire' - we have never managed to define quite what 'fire' means in this context. As a solo piano player my wife's performances are somehow immensely powerful - I would say the word 'fire' is again appropriate. I think many people find her performances disturbing - certainly not what they expect. She remains totally 'unfamous' despite being by far the greatest musician I have ever heard play.
-C2.
That 'fire' is something not tangible. It can be solo, it can be between 2 players in sync with the same musical thrust happening, or it can be the whole band or even (mostly) the whole orchestra. When the orchestra is on fire, the synergy of that massive alignment, not just with the dead-on execution of note, attack/decay and meter, but dead-on preserving the crispness of the spaces, it's an incredible thing to see live. Conductors have made names for themselves by not only knowing how to orchestrate the piece, but more importantly orchestrate the presence of mind and dynamic of the orchestra itself, down to personal attention to the weakest players of that performance - psychologist, comforter, cheerleader if need be, all while attending to the larger function - that makes a great conductor, and a great night at the symphony.
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I hope sometime before I die I can hear Holst's "The Planets" played live by an orchestra on fire. It's a dream, but not as easy as visiting the Grand Canyon. I have an ancient recording of Holst conducting it himself, I guess that and Stowkowski's Phila. Orchestra rendition will have to do.
My wife is a musician (I am not) ..
It seems there are times when an orchestra mostly gets the notes in the right place and there are times when the performance 'catches fire' - we have never managed to define quite what 'fire' means in this context. As a solo piano player my wife's performances are somehow immensely powerful - I would say the word 'fire' is again appropriate. I think many people find her performances disturbing - certainly not what they expect. She remains totally 'unfamous' despite being by far the greatest musician I have ever heard play.
-C2.
That 'fire' is something not tangible. It can be solo, it can be between 2 players in sync with the same musical thrust happening, or it can be the whole band or even (mostly) the whole orchestra. When the orchestra is on fire, the synergy of that massive alignment, not just with the dead-on execution of note, attack/decay and meter, but dead-on preserving the crispness of the spaces, it's an incredible thing to see live. Conductors have made names for themselves by not only knowing how to orchestrate the piece, but more importantly orchestrate the presence of mind and dynamic of the orchestra itself, down to personal attention to the weakest players of that performance - psychologist, comforter, cheerleader if need be, all while attending to the larger function - that makes a great conductor, and a great night at the symphony.
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I hope sometime before I die I can hear Holst's "The Planets" played live by an orchestra on fire. It's a dream, but not as easy as visiting the Grand Canyon. I have an ancient recording of Holst conducting it himself, I guess that and Stowkowski's Phila. Orchestra rendition will have to do.
soundhertz,
Well said!! I agree wholeheartedly. I was trying to formulate a response to that very post while scanning the others' and came across yours. Couldn't have said it better myself.
For me it's easy to play the chords or follow the music, but there is a big difference in just playing songs learned by rote and the state of mind feeling when every note is a soul stirring experience.
Well said!! I agree wholeheartedly. I was trying to formulate a response to that very post while scanning the others' and came across yours. Couldn't have said it better myself.
For me it's easy to play the chords or follow the music, but there is a big difference in just playing songs learned by rote and the state of mind feeling when every note is a soul stirring experience.
QUOTE (soundhertz+Apr 20 2008, 09:10 AM)
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I just want to see that paragraph written again.
Like xtrmn8r I think I have never seen such beautiful description written.
"What do you do when you know that you know, that you know that you're wrong?" - Greatest lyric of all time!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfbk4QAjgXo
g.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfbk4QAjgXo
g.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Apr 20 2008, 10:06 PM)
"What do you do when you know that you know, that you know that you're wrong?" - Greatest lyric of all time!
QUOTE (Derek1148+Apr 20 2008, 10:23 PM)
Interesting (great) lyrics.
http://www.pink-floyd-lyrics.com/html/time-dark-lyrics.html
Hey, Derek, leave those 'yids' alone!
g.
http://www.pink-floyd-lyrics.com/html/time-dark-lyrics.html
Hey, Derek, leave those 'yids' alone!
g.
This is an interesting site to peruse, bring up memories and maybe learn a thing or two..Enjoy
http://www.progressiverock.com/timeline.asp?sYear=1967
http://www.progressiverock.com/timeline.asp?sYear=1967
Deathlyhem
That's a pretty strong sentiment about country/western. Tell you what, before you convince yourself completely try this. Wait till you have a few free hours on a nice day. Get yourself a six-pack and sit on a porch with your feet crossed on the rail and listen to Okie from Muskogee. I bet by the time you finish the first beer you'll be tapping your boots together.
Once you finish all the beers listen to the Devil Went Down to Georgia.
Just a suggestion.
That's a pretty strong sentiment about country/western. Tell you what, before you convince yourself completely try this. Wait till you have a few free hours on a nice day. Get yourself a six-pack and sit on a porch with your feet crossed on the rail and listen to Okie from Muskogee. I bet by the time you finish the first beer you'll be tapping your boots together.
Once you finish all the beers listen to the Devil Went Down to Georgia.
Just a suggestion.
QUOTE (soundhertz+Apr 20 2008, 02:10 PM)
That 'fire' is something not tangible. It can be solo, it can be between 2 players in sync with the same musical thrust happening, or it can be the whole band or even (mostly) the whole orchestra. When the orchestra is on fire, the synergy of that massive alignment, not just with the dead-on execution of note, attack/decay and meter, but dead-on preserving the crispness of the spaces, it's an incredible thing to see live. Conductors have made names for themselves by not only knowing how to orchestrate the piece, but more importantly orchestrate the presence of mind and dynamic of the orchestra itself, down to personal attention to the weakest players of that performance - psychologist, comforter, cheerleader if need be, all while attending to the larger function - that makes a great conductor, and a great night at the symphony.
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I hope sometime before I die I can hear Holst's "The Planets" played live by an orchestra on fire. It's a dream, but not as easy as visiting the Grand Canyon. I have an ancient recording of Holst conducting it himself, I guess that and Stowkowski's Phila. Orchestra rendition will have to do.
Hi Soundhertz,
Have to agree with all comments so far.
My attempt at trying to decipher what is going on here would be:
When we feel it seems to be a confusing mixture of feelings. These feelings or emotions are very difficult to communicate to others via language.
ie; We use singular terms like; I'm fine, I'm happy, I'm low, I'm sad etc.
However in Reality we might be a mixture of all the above and much more like indifferent, non descript, elated, awe struck etc, etc. And then again what is happy or sad? what constitutes 'fine' etc, it's all very difficult to explain.
Art and particularly Music in this instance appear to be able to communicate on that emotional level, invoking or capturing all of or more of those feelings and emotions in ways that language, with all of it's accurate descriptive value seems to struggle. It can reach those highs and lows from a verse to a chorus without the need to explain with long winded word salad. That is why a horror movie tends to be less scary without the creepy Music for instance or that montage scene in Rocky where he 's running up the steps with the ultra uplifting "Gonna fly now" score carefully building to crescendo behind him.
When we Jam occasionally we hit that indefinable 'something' or 'fire' and it's as if all of the complex emotions are in sync within yourself, the other players and the listeners. And then there's the physical and the visual etc, etc
It's a beautiful way to communicate if you ask me.
That 'fire' - those who jam know it. It becomes more effortless, and for everyone playing. It's like the same dream is being shared, it's exhilarating, a great example of shared awareness of the feel, aligning perfectly, and "God is the tape deck running?" What is this intangible? What is it beyond the 'awareness of mutual mindset" that allows the fire you are playing AND hearing as you play it? It is timeless, an instant that feels like an eternity, but not counted inexorably like time. It just IS. There is no data for this, nothing to be found to measure. A state of mind only, whose brainwave analysis during this would look little different from normal, failing to imply the intense state of mind depicted by meters charts and screens.
I hope sometime before I die I can hear Holst's "The Planets" played live by an orchestra on fire. It's a dream, but not as easy as visiting the Grand Canyon. I have an ancient recording of Holst conducting it himself, I guess that and Stowkowski's Phila. Orchestra rendition will have to do.
Hi Soundhertz,
Have to agree with all comments so far.
My attempt at trying to decipher what is going on here would be:
When we feel it seems to be a confusing mixture of feelings. These feelings or emotions are very difficult to communicate to others via language.
ie; We use singular terms like; I'm fine, I'm happy, I'm low, I'm sad etc.
However in Reality we might be a mixture of all the above and much more like indifferent, non descript, elated, awe struck etc, etc. And then again what is happy or sad? what constitutes 'fine' etc, it's all very difficult to explain.
Art and particularly Music in this instance appear to be able to communicate on that emotional level, invoking or capturing all of or more of those feelings and emotions in ways that language, with all of it's accurate descriptive value seems to struggle. It can reach those highs and lows from a verse to a chorus without the need to explain with long winded word salad. That is why a horror movie tends to be less scary without the creepy Music for instance or that montage scene in Rocky where he 's running up the steps with the ultra uplifting "Gonna fly now" score carefully building to crescendo behind him.
When we Jam occasionally we hit that indefinable 'something' or 'fire' and it's as if all of the complex emotions are in sync within yourself, the other players and the listeners. And then there's the physical and the visual etc, etc
It's a beautiful way to communicate if you ask me.
Apparently a good sense of rhythm is a sign of intelligence. The posters on this thread are a testament to that.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80416100459.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80416100459.htm
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Apr 20 2008, 10:06 PM)
"What do you do when you know that you know, that you know that you're wrong?" - Greatest lyric of all time!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfbk4QAjgXo
g.
Sun Ra!! A black Mystic, I'm learning
Sorry I missed this post and link,
Always liked that title and lyric!!
We all have to face the music sometimes, I'm learning to embrace this and wince through the pain to find clarity.
It does really hurt sometimes though, but it's worth it!
Thankyou!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfbk4QAjgXo
g.
Sun Ra!! A black Mystic, I'm learning
Sorry I missed this post and link,
Always liked that title and lyric!!
We all have to face the music sometimes, I'm learning to embrace this and wince through the pain to find clarity.
It does really hurt sometimes though, but it's worth it!
Thankyou!
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 22 2008, 08:19 AM)
Sun Ra!! A black Mystic, I'm learning
Sorry I missed this post and link,
Always liked that title and lyric!!
We all have to face the music sometimes, I'm learning to embrace this and wince through the pain to find clarity.
It does really hurt sometimes though, but it's worth it!
Thankyou!
Welcome, as ever.
xtrmn8r, good link!
Great! I agree.
Has anyone here ever heard of a very bad Irish rap artist called Duff Paddy?
g.
Sorry I missed this post and link,
Always liked that title and lyric!!
We all have to face the music sometimes, I'm learning to embrace this and wince through the pain to find clarity.
It does really hurt sometimes though, but it's worth it!
Thankyou!
Welcome, as ever.
xtrmn8r, good link!
QUOTE
Deathlyhem - "For me, music is a very honest, valid transposition media for human emotion as words are often fake!"
Great! I agree.
Has anyone here ever heard of a very bad Irish rap artist called Duff Paddy?
g.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 20 2008, 11:15 PM)
Art and particularly Music in this instance appear to be able to communicate on that emotional level, invoking or capturing all of or more of those feelings and emotions in ways that language, with all of it's accurate descriptive value seems to struggle. It can reach those highs and lows from a verse to a chorus without the need to explain with long winded word salad. That is why a horror movie tends to be less scary without the creepy Music for instance or that montage scene in Rocky where he 's running up the steps with the ultra uplifting "Gonna fly now" score carefully building to crescendo behind him.
Precisely my thoughts. Besides math , music seems to be the only universal way of communicating, and is especially useful in conveying emotion. I play a variety of different instruments, and I can't imagine lacking this medium to express myself. Granted, I am still fairly young, so to claim expertise is something I cannot do... I can only hope my abilities evolve over time.
Just the other day, I was engaged in a discussion with a professor of mine about music. I have been wondering if indeed the feelings we get from music are actually programmed into us at a biological level, or something we have developed because of some similarities in a somewhat global culture. The paradigm example is the brightness that chords in a major key seem to give off, contrasted with the sadness a minor chord evokes. Mathematically, the major chord frequencies match up more coherently than minor chords, but WHAT forms the basis for the different feelings from the two? Does the human being desire similar frequencies? Dissonance is another great example. The frequencies are even more dissimilar and draw attention to themselves, and depending on the circumstance can be quite unpleasant to hear.
There are also studies that have found people spontaneously pay more attention to music when they sense a significant change in the composition approaching.
The infinitely many possibilities of chord progressions (and possibly lyrics accompanying them) seem to each inspire a different internal response, though perhaps not exactly the same response ranging from listener to listener, but more often than not a common feeling is shared.
It would be fascinating (and morally wrong) to completely isolate an individual from music, and probably necessarily society, and after they have matured conduct a series of tests on him/her to observe how music makes them feel without ANY preconceived notions. Could they even mature properly without some of the emotions and ideas that music has to offer?
Music seems to be *essential* to happiness in humans, and I'm no exception.
What fascinates me (and worries me, to some degree) is the lack of substance and thought going into mainstream music, at least here in the U.S. You may of course object to this, but I find myself unable to identify with many of the petty themes that seem to repeat themselves time and time again from manufactured mainstream music that often is not even written by the "artists" themselves anymore. It seems to me as though it's been implemented as a medium of social and individual programming. These are interesting times we live in...
Edit: not sure if any of this has been discussed yet, I had to jump into this thread immediately
Precisely my thoughts. Besides math
, music seems to be the only universal way of communicating, and is especially useful in conveying emotion. I play a variety of different instruments, and I can't imagine lacking this medium to express myself. Granted, I am still fairly young, so to claim expertise is something I cannot do... I can only hope my abilities evolve over time.Just the other day, I was engaged in a discussion with a professor of mine about music. I have been wondering if indeed the feelings we get from music are actually programmed into us at a biological level, or something we have developed because of some similarities in a somewhat global culture. The paradigm example is the brightness that chords in a major key seem to give off, contrasted with the sadness a minor chord evokes. Mathematically, the major chord frequencies match up more coherently than minor chords, but WHAT forms the basis for the different feelings from the two? Does the human being desire similar frequencies? Dissonance is another great example. The frequencies are even more dissimilar and draw attention to themselves, and depending on the circumstance can be quite unpleasant to hear.
There are also studies that have found people spontaneously pay more attention to music when they sense a significant change in the composition approaching.
The infinitely many possibilities of chord progressions (and possibly lyrics accompanying them) seem to each inspire a different internal response, though perhaps not exactly the same response ranging from listener to listener, but more often than not a common feeling is shared.
It would be fascinating (and morally wrong) to completely isolate an individual from music, and probably necessarily society, and after they have matured conduct a series of tests on him/her to observe how music makes them feel without ANY preconceived notions. Could they even mature properly without some of the emotions and ideas that music has to offer?
Music seems to be *essential* to happiness in humans, and I'm no exception.
What fascinates me (and worries me, to some degree) is the lack of substance and thought going into mainstream music, at least here in the U.S. You may of course object to this, but I find myself unable to identify with many of the petty themes that seem to repeat themselves time and time again from manufactured mainstream music that often is not even written by the "artists" themselves anymore. It seems to me as though it's been implemented as a medium of social and individual programming. These are interesting times we live in...
Edit: not sure if any of this has been discussed yet, I had to jump into this thread immediately
On the subject of great guitarists.
I don't know if it's possible to determine the BEST, but both Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana just get better with age. Like a fine wine... or a good single malt scotch.
I don't know if it's possible to determine the BEST, but both Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana just get better with age. Like a fine wine... or a good single malt scotch.
gmilam-
I was wondering why Santana didn't make it on some of the lists posted here. Might be the age of the people responding to the polls even though that shouldn't matter. Maybe they went by sales. He should be on Top Ten lists.
I was wondering why Santana didn't make it on some of the lists posted here. Might be the age of the people responding to the polls even though that shouldn't matter. Maybe they went by sales. He should be on Top Ten lists.
QUOTE (am_Unition+Apr 22 2008, 11:50 AM)
I have been wondering if indeed the feelings we get from music are actually programmed into us at a biological level, or something we have developed because of some similarities in a somewhat global culture. The paradigm example is the brightness that chords in a major key seem to give off, contrasted with the sadness a minor chord evokes. Mathematically, the major chord frequencies match up more coherently than minor chords, but WHAT forms the basis for the different feelings from the two? Does the human being desire similar frequencies?
I would say that it's a cultural thing, myself. After all, look at the similarities between a Hirojoshi scale and a minor scale, yet Japanese music using a Hirojoshi scale tends to be uplifting, whereas western music using this or the minor scale tends to be sad, or sinister.
The same holds true with Arabian and Gypsy scales and extreme metal. When played in a western context (most predominantly in extreme metal), such scales are generally felt to be haunting, exotic, and highly sinister, yet when played in their native lands, they are as familiar to the locals as the Blues scale is to Americans.
I do know that tempo is inherent, in that a large chunk of all dance-music from all cultures tends to be 140 bpm, the frequency of a rapidly beating human heart, as if hearing music at that tempo inherently makes people excited.
Dissonance seems to be universal. While there are many scales which use 1/2 step intervals (almost ALL of them, really) I know of no traditional chords which use 1/2 step intervals.
Dissonance seems to be universal. While there are many scales which use 1/2 step intervals (almost ALL of them, really) I know of no traditional chords which use 1/2 step intervals.
The infinitely many possibilities of chord progressions (and possibly lyrics accompanying them) seem to each inspire a different internal response, though perhaps not exactly the same response ranging from listener to listener, but more often than not a common feeling is shared.
I think this is one of the reasons we have such a wide variety of music, because what's epic and victorious to me, might sound sinister to you. In fact, black metal ( see YouTube - Dimmu Borgir - Progenies of the Great Apocalypse for a prime example) tends to be a perfect exampel of that. I find black metal to be sad, wistful, victorious and dramatic far more often than I find it to be sinister, yet many people hold the exact opposite convictions.
That's quite an interesting question.
That's quite an interesting question.
What fascinates me (and worries me, to some degree) is the lack of substance and thought going into mainstream music, at least here in the U.S. You may of course object to this, but I find myself unable to identify with many of the petty themes that seem to repeat themselves time and time again from manufactured mainstream music that often is not even written by the "artists" themselves anymore. It seems to me as though it's been implemented as a medium of social and individual programming. These are interesting times we live in...
I wholeheartedly concur. Everything from Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen, to KMFDM ripping off Slayer, I see no evidence of an overabundance of creativity in most popular music. (It could be argued that the popularity of KMFDM is relative, but it is undoubtedly far more popular with the youth of the 90's than the youth of the 80's.)
It is quite rare that I hear a truly original tune on the radio anymore, and for that reason, I rely mostly upon my friends' and my own forays into obscure music to find new artists worth listening to. There are SOME redeeming qualities to mainstream music, however, just not qualities that appeal to the musician in me. (I play 6 instruments and sing baritone-bass & gutteral vocals, I also work in production, none of which I do for a living.)
I would say that it's a cultural thing, myself. After all, look at the similarities between a Hirojoshi scale and a minor scale, yet Japanese music using a Hirojoshi scale tends to be uplifting, whereas western music using this or the minor scale tends to be sad, or sinister.
The same holds true with Arabian and Gypsy scales and extreme metal. When played in a western context (most predominantly in extreme metal), such scales are generally felt to be haunting, exotic, and highly sinister, yet when played in their native lands, they are as familiar to the locals as the Blues scale is to Americans.
I do know that tempo is inherent, in that a large chunk of all dance-music from all cultures tends to be 140 bpm, the frequency of a rapidly beating human heart, as if hearing music at that tempo inherently makes people excited.
QUOTE
Dissonance is another great example. The frequencies are even more dissimilar and draw attention to themselves, and depending on the circumstance can be quite unpleasant to hear.
Dissonance seems to be universal. While there are many scales which use 1/2 step intervals (almost ALL of them, really) I know of no traditional chords which use 1/2 step intervals.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Dissonance is another great example. The frequencies are even more dissimilar and draw attention to themselves, and depending on the circumstance can be quite unpleasant to hear. |
Dissonance seems to be universal. While there are many scales which use 1/2 step intervals (almost ALL of them, really) I know of no traditional chords which use 1/2 step intervals.
The infinitely many possibilities of chord progressions (and possibly lyrics accompanying them) seem to each inspire a different internal response, though perhaps not exactly the same response ranging from listener to listener, but more often than not a common feeling is shared.
I think this is one of the reasons we have such a wide variety of music, because what's epic and victorious to me, might sound sinister to you. In fact, black metal ( see YouTube - Dimmu Borgir - Progenies of the Great Apocalypse for a prime example) tends to be a perfect exampel of that. I find black metal to be sad, wistful, victorious and dramatic far more often than I find it to be sinister, yet many people hold the exact opposite convictions.
QUOTE
It would be fascinating (and morally wrong) to completely isolate an individual from music, and probably necessarily society, and after they have matured conduct a series of tests on him/her to observe how music makes them feel without ANY preconceived notions. Could they even mature properly without some of the emotions and ideas that music has to offer?
That's quite an interesting question.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| It would be fascinating (and morally wrong) to completely isolate an individual from music, and probably necessarily society, and after they have matured conduct a series of tests on him/her to observe how music makes them feel without ANY preconceived notions. Could they even mature properly without some of the emotions and ideas that music has to offer? |
That's quite an interesting question.
What fascinates me (and worries me, to some degree) is the lack of substance and thought going into mainstream music, at least here in the U.S. You may of course object to this, but I find myself unable to identify with many of the petty themes that seem to repeat themselves time and time again from manufactured mainstream music that often is not even written by the "artists" themselves anymore. It seems to me as though it's been implemented as a medium of social and individual programming. These are interesting times we live in...
I wholeheartedly concur. Everything from Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen, to KMFDM ripping off Slayer, I see no evidence of an overabundance of creativity in most popular music. (It could be argued that the popularity of KMFDM is relative, but it is undoubtedly far more popular with the youth of the 90's than the youth of the 80's.)
It is quite rare that I hear a truly original tune on the radio anymore, and for that reason, I rely mostly upon my friends' and my own forays into obscure music to find new artists worth listening to. There are SOME redeeming qualities to mainstream music, however, just not qualities that appeal to the musician in me. (I play 6 instruments and sing baritone-bass & gutteral vocals, I also work in production, none of which I do for a living.)
QUOTE (orestis+Apr 22 2008, 07:12 PM)
I was wondering why Santana didn't make it on some of the lists posted here. Might be the age of the people responding to the polls even though that shouldn't matter. Maybe they went by sales. He should be on Top Ten lists.
I agree. Sometimes it is difficult to explain why certain artists are not recognized. Lynyrd Skynyrd was not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame until 2006.
I agree. Sometimes it is difficult to explain why certain artists are not recognized. Lynyrd Skynyrd was not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame until 2006.
This is a pretty eclectic radio station and my favorite. If you're tired of the same old stuff on radio check this out.
http://www.krsh.com/listen.html
http://www.krsh.com/listen.html
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+Apr 22 2008, 07:36 PM)
I would say that it's a cultural thing, myself. After all, look at the similarities between a Hirojoshi scale and a minor scale, yet Japanese music using a Hirojoshi scale tends to be uplifting, whereas western music using this or the minor scale tends to be sad, or sinister.
The same holds true with Arabian and Gypsy scales and extreme metal. When played in a western context (most predominantly in extreme metal), such scales are generally felt to be haunting, exotic, and highly sinister, yet when played in their native lands, they are as familiar to the locals as the Blues scale is to Americans.
Your insight is much appreciated... I readily recognize the fact that I have been raised in a limited environment with limited exposure to the music of different cultures. Even more recognizable is my lack of understanding of how a very diverse group of people raised in a totally different set of circumstances *views* the music of their own culture, and other cultures, for that matter. All music is written in the key of perspective, and this can be a valuable tool for understanding foreign cultures'/individuals' musical expressions, again particularly emotional expression.
I do know that tempo is inherent, in that a large chunk of all dance-music from all cultures tends to be 140 bpm, the frequency of a rapidly beating human heart, as if hearing music at that tempo inherently makes people excited.
I have a particular weakness for this sort of thing. Truly, dancing (note: dancing WITHOUT rules or in an environment without heavy social expectations ) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me.
I have a particular weakness for this sort of thing. Truly, dancing (note: dancing WITHOUT rules or in an environment without heavy social expectations ) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me.
I think this is one of the reasons we have such a wide variety of music, because what's epic and victorious to me, might sound sinister to you. In fact, black metal ( see YouTube - Dimmu Borgir - Progenies of the Great Apocalypse for a prime example) tends to be a perfect exampel of that. I find black metal to be sad, wistful, victorious and dramatic far more often than I find it to be sinister, yet many people hold the exact opposite convictions.
I am fairly well acquainted with Dimmu Borgir, a few of my friends from yesteryear very much enjoyed his albums. Even though the music doesn't particularly resonate with me, I can definitely appreciate the incredible levels of technicality necessary to write and play the parts I've heard in his compositions. It's very easy for me to understand how he has a large, widespread fanbase.
I wholeheartedly concur. Everything from Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen, to KMFDM ripping off Slayer, I see no evidence of an overabundance of creativity in most popular music. (It could be argued that the popularity of KMFDM is relative, but it is undoubtedly far more popular with the youth of the 90's than the youth of the 80's.)
It is quite rare that I hear a truly original tune on the radio anymore, and for that reason, I rely mostly upon my friends' and my own forays into obscure music to find new artists worth listening to. There are SOME redeeming qualities to mainstream music, however, just not qualities that appeal to the musician in me. (I play 6 instruments and sing baritone-bass & gutteral vocals, I also work in production, none of which I do for a living.)
Musicians in particular seem to have the capacity to recognize when material is missing technicality and/or worth. The problem for the producers of mainstream music is that the ability to play an instrument is inherently appealing, and as such, those who progress far might realize that the most pure musical acheivements often fall outside of the heavily promoted realm. However, as any real instrument takes a substancial time investment to master, and human beings love instant gratification, the "Guitar Hero"s and "Rock Band" were born I can play a wealth things on the most common instruments, provided ample time to practice, and when I attempt to play one of the two "musician simulation" games at a social event (as I would never buy them), I usually walk away after laughing at how bad I am.
The same holds true with Arabian and Gypsy scales and extreme metal. When played in a western context (most predominantly in extreme metal), such scales are generally felt to be haunting, exotic, and highly sinister, yet when played in their native lands, they are as familiar to the locals as the Blues scale is to Americans.
Your insight is much appreciated... I readily recognize the fact that I have been raised in a limited environment with limited exposure to the music of different cultures. Even more recognizable is my lack of understanding of how a very diverse group of people raised in a totally different set of circumstances *views* the music of their own culture, and other cultures, for that matter. All music is written in the key of perspective, and this can be a valuable tool for understanding foreign cultures'/individuals' musical expressions, again particularly emotional expression.
QUOTE
I do know that tempo is inherent, in that a large chunk of all dance-music from all cultures tends to be 140 bpm, the frequency of a rapidly beating human heart, as if hearing music at that tempo inherently makes people excited.
I have a particular weakness for this sort of thing. Truly, dancing (note: dancing WITHOUT rules or in an environment without heavy social expectations
) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me.QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
I do know that tempo is inherent, in that a large chunk of all dance-music from all cultures tends to be 140 bpm, the frequency of a rapidly beating human heart, as if hearing music at that tempo inherently makes people excited. |
I have a particular weakness for this sort of thing. Truly, dancing (note: dancing WITHOUT rules or in an environment without heavy social expectations
) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me.I think this is one of the reasons we have such a wide variety of music, because what's epic and victorious to me, might sound sinister to you. In fact, black metal ( see YouTube - Dimmu Borgir - Progenies of the Great Apocalypse for a prime example) tends to be a perfect exampel of that. I find black metal to be sad, wistful, victorious and dramatic far more often than I find it to be sinister, yet many people hold the exact opposite convictions.
I am fairly well acquainted with Dimmu Borgir, a few of my friends from yesteryear very much enjoyed his albums. Even though the music doesn't particularly resonate with me, I can definitely appreciate the incredible levels of technicality necessary to write and play the parts I've heard in his compositions. It's very easy for me to understand how he has a large, widespread fanbase.
QUOTE
I wholeheartedly concur. Everything from Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen, to KMFDM ripping off Slayer, I see no evidence of an overabundance of creativity in most popular music. (It could be argued that the popularity of KMFDM is relative, but it is undoubtedly far more popular with the youth of the 90's than the youth of the 80's.)
It is quite rare that I hear a truly original tune on the radio anymore, and for that reason, I rely mostly upon my friends' and my own forays into obscure music to find new artists worth listening to. There are SOME redeeming qualities to mainstream music, however, just not qualities that appeal to the musician in me. (I play 6 instruments and sing baritone-bass & gutteral vocals, I also work in production, none of which I do for a living.)
Musicians in particular seem to have the capacity to recognize when material is missing technicality and/or worth. The problem for the producers of mainstream music is that the ability to play an instrument is inherently appealing, and as such, those who progress far might realize that the most pure musical acheivements often fall outside of the heavily promoted realm. However, as any real instrument takes a substancial time investment to master, and human beings love instant gratification, the "Guitar Hero"s and "Rock Band" were born
I can play a wealth things on the most common instruments, provided ample time to practice, and when I attempt to play one of the two "musician simulation" games at a social event (as I would never buy them), I usually walk away after laughing at how bad I am.
QUOTE (am_Unition+Apr 23 2008, 04:38 AM)
I have a particular weakness for this sort of thing. Truly, dancing (note: dancing WITHOUT rules or in an environment without heavy social expectations ) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me.
I'm not a dancer myself, but over the years, I have come to understand it's appeal. I see it as a sort of inaudible music, a quiet instrument that anyone can play, regardless of musical talent.
To be honest, I don't find them (it's a them, BTW) to be particularly technical. (I generally go for the Jam Bands, Uncle Moe's Space Jam or Steve Vai for that) They are ubelievably technical in comparison to more mainstream versions of metal music (Godsmack or Mudvayne for instance) but that's about it. What I find appealing is the composition. They mix extreme metal with orchestral music with a skill few bands can match. Even the Trans Siberian Orchestra could learn a thing or two from DB. They compose their music with the goal of mixing it with the orchestra from the get go, and it shows.
To be honest, I don't find them (it's a them, BTW) to be particularly technical. (I generally go for the Jam Bands, Uncle Moe's Space Jam or Steve Vai for that) They are ubelievably technical in comparison to more mainstream versions of metal music (Godsmack or Mudvayne for instance) but that's about it. What I find appealing is the composition. They mix extreme metal with orchestral music with a skill few bands can match. Even the Trans Siberian Orchestra could learn a thing or two from DB. They compose their music with the goal of mixing it with the orchestra from the get go, and it shows.
The problem for the producers of mainstream music is that the ability to play an instrument is inherently appealing, and as such, those who progress far might realize that the most pure musical acheivements often fall outside of the heavily promoted realm.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head, with this.
I'm the same way. I can play "Stairway to Heaven" blindfolded while people scream random notes into my ear, but try to get me to play "Back in Black" on Guitar Hero and I'll crash and burn...
) serves as a great way to release stress, energy, and emotion. Some people enjoy dancing with rules, i.e. "two-stepping", the "Marcerena", etc., but this doesn't do much for me. I'm not a dancer myself, but over the years, I have come to understand it's appeal. I see it as a sort of inaudible music, a quiet instrument that anyone can play, regardless of musical talent.
QUOTE
I am fairly well acquainted with Dimmu Borgir, a few of my friends from yesteryear very much enjoyed his albums. Even though the music doesn't particularly resonate with me, I can definitely appreciate the incredible levels of technicality necessary to write and play the parts I've heard in his compositions. It's very easy for me to understand how he has a large, widespread fanbase.
To be honest, I don't find them (it's a them, BTW) to be particularly technical. (I generally go for the Jam Bands, Uncle Moe's Space Jam or Steve Vai for that) They are ubelievably technical in comparison to more mainstream versions of metal music (Godsmack or Mudvayne for instance) but that's about it. What I find appealing is the composition. They mix extreme metal with orchestral music with a skill few bands can match. Even the Trans Siberian Orchestra could learn a thing or two from DB. They compose their music with the goal of mixing it with the orchestra from the get go, and it shows.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I am fairly well acquainted with Dimmu Borgir, a few of my friends from yesteryear very much enjoyed his albums. Even though the music doesn't particularly resonate with me, I can definitely appreciate the incredible levels of technicality necessary to write and play the parts I've heard in his compositions. It's very easy for me to understand how he has a large, widespread fanbase. |
To be honest, I don't find them (it's a them, BTW) to be particularly technical. (I generally go for the Jam Bands, Uncle Moe's Space Jam or Steve Vai for that) They are ubelievably technical in comparison to more mainstream versions of metal music (Godsmack or Mudvayne for instance) but that's about it. What I find appealing is the composition. They mix extreme metal with orchestral music with a skill few bands can match. Even the Trans Siberian Orchestra could learn a thing or two from DB. They compose their music with the goal of mixing it with the orchestra from the get go, and it shows.
The problem for the producers of mainstream music is that the ability to play an instrument is inherently appealing, and as such, those who progress far might realize that the most pure musical acheivements often fall outside of the heavily promoted realm.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head, with this.
QUOTE
However, as any real instrument takes a substancial time investment to master, and human beings love instant gratification, the "Guitar Hero"s and "Rock Band" were born I can play a wealth things on the most common instruments, provided ample time to practice, and when I attempt to play one of the two "musician simulation" games at a social event (as I would never buy them), I usually walk away after laughing at how bad I am.
I can play a wealth things on the most common instruments, provided ample time to practice, and when I attempt to play one of the two "musician simulation" games at a social event (as I would never buy them), I usually walk away after laughing at how bad I am. I'm the same way. I can play "Stairway to Heaven" blindfolded while people scream random notes into my ear, but try to get me to play "Back in Black" on Guitar Hero and I'll crash and burn...
Here are a couple of examples of what I consider to be that 'Fire' that am_Unition myself and other posters are alluding to.
Both clips involve guitarist John McLaughlin.
The first is 'Aspan' featuring Katia LaBeque on synths.
I think it serves as a good example of Musicianship. Note the speed and accuracy of the interactions particularly between John and Katia (they were married) in more ways than one. Also the little looks of appreciation from all concerned when they find that glimpse
of cohesion in a song that they play regularly but with variation everytime.
(sorry about the poor quality, and the silly clothes )
Apan
The second is 'Dawn' from his earlier Mahavishnu days.
This is from the Album 'Inner mountain flame' this I feel is a sample of that 'emotional' power of music.
They have much better examples but I'm limited to what I could find after a short search on line.
Dawn
It doesn't matter whether you like the music particularly, but I just think they serve to illustrate.
Kind regards to all.
Both clips involve guitarist John McLaughlin.
The first is 'Aspan' featuring Katia LaBeque on synths.
I think it serves as a good example of Musicianship. Note the speed and accuracy of the interactions particularly between John and Katia (they were married) in more ways than one. Also the little looks of appreciation from all concerned when they find that glimpse
of cohesion in a song that they play regularly but with variation everytime.
(sorry about the poor quality, and the silly clothes
)Apan
The second is 'Dawn' from his earlier Mahavishnu days.
This is from the Album 'Inner mountain flame' this I feel is a sample of that 'emotional' power of music.
They have much better examples but I'm limited to what I could find after a short search on line.
Dawn
It doesn't matter whether you like the music particularly, but I just think they serve to illustrate.
Kind regards to all.
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 23 2008, 08:37 AM)
Here are a couple of examples of what I consider to be that 'Fire' that am_Unition myself and other posters are alluding to.
...
The first is 'Aspan' featuring Katia LaBeque on synths.
While I am not a fan of Jazz or fusion in any way, I have to agree with you. This clip is a perfect example of the way a song can just 'click' and come together so perfectly that the performers can loose themselves in the music. Wonderful link, SU.
...
The first is 'Aspan' featuring Katia LaBeque on synths.
While I am not a fan of Jazz or fusion in any way, I have to agree with you. This clip is a perfect example of the way a song can just 'click' and come together so perfectly that the performers can loose themselves in the music. Wonderful link, SU.
Ah, some lovely links there, chaps...
No one has mentioned this genius yet though...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JlucinwT8&feature=related
Sorry, not great quality, apart from the actual playing, of course!
g.
No one has mentioned this genius yet though...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JlucinwT8&feature=related
Sorry, not great quality, apart from the actual playing, of course!
g.
Gorgeous, I just listened to the Pastorius-Lagrene. That is some high-stepping jazz going on there! Awesome.
QUOTE (<Max>+Apr 23 2008, 01:53 PM)
Group: Autechre
Video: Gantz Graf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atjByPSKTRA
Great clip <Max>!
I saw these guys live many moons ago. They kicked electronic butt even then.
Great interaction between the visual artist Alexander Rutterford as well.
Video: Gantz Graf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atjByPSKTRA
Great clip <Max>!
I saw these guys live many moons ago. They kicked electronic butt even then.
Great interaction between the visual artist Alexander Rutterford as well.
QUOTE (Gorgeous+Apr 23 2008, 02:58 PM)
Ah, some lovely links there, chaps...
No one has mentioned this genius yet though...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JlucinwT8&feature=related
Sorry, not great quality, apart from the actual playing, of course!
g.
I had a feeling you were a Jaco fan after your 'space between the notes' comment.
He was indeed a genius, troubled life and all.
Pity he's not still with us, but his music lives on.
Nice one!
No one has mentioned this genius yet though...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JlucinwT8&feature=related
Sorry, not great quality, apart from the actual playing, of course!
g.
I had a feeling you were a Jaco fan after your 'space between the notes' comment.
He was indeed a genius, troubled life and all.
Pity he's not still with us, but his music lives on.
Nice one!
QUOTE (Sinister Utopia+Apr 23 2008, 04:15 PM)
He was indeed a genius, troubled life and all.
This seems a trend amongst notable musicians (debatable though).
Considering that most of us here agree that important requirements of good, sincere music is strong emotion and original ideas or forms of expression, this definitely adds up. When a person is simply given everything they require to exist happily, it's very hard to evolve and grow. Challenges make us rethink what we believe, how we function, the ways that the universe works... bestowing upon us some great ideas as well as a roller coaster of emotion along the way.
Of course, even though it may sometimes appear as though musicians lead more troubled lives than the average person, neither is the average person psycho-analyzed by large audiences. Ironically enough, I think sometimes a very widespread psycho-analysis can contribute or even initiate degenerate mental conditions for those under the microscope. Can't think of many instances this has actually helped anyone's artistic material though. "Selling out" to appease the demands of the masses always backfires.
Good videos, everyone. Even though we each have our own tastes, the concepts agreed upon are there for every flavor
This seems a trend amongst notable musicians (debatable though).
Considering that most of us here agree that important requirements of good, sincere music is strong emotion and original ideas or forms of expression, this definitely adds up. When a person is simply given everything they require to exist happily, it's very hard to evolve and grow. Challenges make us rethink what we believe, how we function, the ways that the universe works... bestowing upon us some great ideas as well as a roller coaster of emotion along the way.
Of course, even though it may sometimes appear as though musicians lead more troubled lives than the average person, neither is the average person psycho-analyzed by large audiences. Ironically enough, I think sometimes a very widespread psycho-analysis can contribute or even initiate degenerate mental conditions for those under the microscope. Can't think of many instances this has actually helped anyone's artistic material though. "Selling out" to appease the demands of the masses always backfires.
Good videos, everyone. Even though we each have our own tastes, the concepts agreed upon are there for every flavor
QUOTE (am_Unition+Apr 23 2008, 02:08 PM)
This seems a trend amongst notable musicians (debatable though).
"All great art is born of suffering."
"All great art is born of suffering."
What a nice thread. Sun Ra and Jaco both were from my area so I was lucky enough to see both live. am-Unition I agree with everything you've said and wondered about. We're in transitional times right now and the 'dumbing down' of popular music I expect will be a phase; music just isn't a static thing. It is an exciting archive that is building. We have so much music, so varied, I think it's a great thing too. I still like the Andrews Sisters and songs like the Glow Worm and Bill Bailey...and we'll never lose these now. And who knows what new stuff will be coming along. Some kid on this forum may come up with the next thing. It's never boring investigating the fringes of what is going on, just don't go to popular media sources for it, yet soon maybe the weirdest musics may be the vogue, or a vogue - everything's increasing.
BDW is right about chordal structures and culture. On a specific level, massively incorporated life associations brought into the music made, forms those paradigms. Yet, generally, to a degree, the mathematical groupings of frequency do indeed impart globally similar emotional effects. I can't recommend highly enough "The Acoustical Foundations of Music" by physicist John Backus, and "The History of Musical Instruments" by Curt Sachs. They can say it far better than me.
Rethinker, thanks for a heck of a compliment. Hail to the fire!
btw, the original Return to Forever is touring, and supposedly Chick is doing shows with Bela Fleck!
and, King Crimson (with Fripp Belew and Levin) is touring! imho, everyone should see Crimson at least once. They live in the fire, man.
BDW is right about chordal structures and culture. On a specific level, massively incorporated life associations brought into the music made, forms those paradigms. Yet, generally, to a degree, the mathematical groupings of frequency do indeed impart globally similar emotional effects. I can't recommend highly enough "The Acoustical Foundations of Music" by physicist John Backus, and "The History of Musical Instruments" by Curt Sachs. They can say it far better than me.
Rethinker, thanks for a heck of a compliment. Hail to the fire!
btw, the original Return to Forever is touring, and supposedly Chick is doing shows with Bela Fleck!
and, King Crimson (with Fripp Belew and Levin) is touring! imho, everyone should see Crimson at least once. They live in the fire, man.
Since my brain is quite taxed from the day's activities, I'm taking a break from intensely intellectual endeavors and listing some of my favorite artists and favorite album of theirs.
Non-Danceable category:
Danceable category:
Don't expect many here to have heard of more than possibly one or two of these, which is partially what motivated this post
Non-Danceable category:
- Broken Social Scene - "Broken Social Scene"
- The Helio Sequence - "Love and Distance"
- The Mars Volta - "De Loused in the Comatorium"
- Ratatat - "Classics"
- Sound Team - "Work" [EP]
Danceable category:
- Daft Punk - "Discovery"
- Deadmau5... anything.
- Justice - "Cross"
Don't expect many here to have heard of more than possibly one or two of these, which is partially what motivated this post
Don't forget, music can be fun too, especially when it rocks!:
Extreme: Play with me.
Steve Vai: The audience is listening.
Van Halen: Ice Cream Man.
AC/DC: Big Balls.
Extreme: Play with me.
Steve Vai: The audience is listening.
Van Halen: Ice Cream Man.
AC/DC: Big Balls.