http://www.physorg.com/news10312.html
What they found is "Wilful increase of concentration apparently causes increase in the size of the brain". The presentation of the article is just "Sensationalism".
A. Mani
Member, Cal. Math. Soc
Amazing! An increase in thickness of 4 to 8 thousandths of an inch!
What percent increase is that? What's the standard deviation in thickness between subjects? I'm just guessing here but I imagine the natural variation between subjects is greater than 4-8 thousandths of an inch. How did they control for the subjects ages? They mention how the thickness normally decreases with age but not how age was controlled for in the experiment.
It could be interesting to study the differences between people who meditate and those who don't to see if there's a difference, but they'd have to have more ridged controls for life style. For example, how do the brains of meditators compare with those people who read for pleasure for an hour a day, or exercise 30 min per day, or play chess or do cross words every day, or simply do something on a regular basis that they enjoy and find relaxing? Perhaps just reducing stress in any way benefits the brain. Not to mention the influence of diet.
With all the brain research coming out these day's one thing is clear, there's a multitude of complexly interacting factors affecting the brain, it's development, it's plasticity, and how it ages.
Just throwing a bunch a people into an MRI or PET or whatever they used does not in my opinion constitute a study. Seems like the researcher was more interested in proving that how clever they are for choosing to meditate.
What percent increase is that? What's the standard deviation in thickness between subjects? I'm just guessing here but I imagine the natural variation between subjects is greater than 4-8 thousandths of an inch. How did they control for the subjects ages? They mention how the thickness normally decreases with age but not how age was controlled for in the experiment.
It could be interesting to study the differences between people who meditate and those who don't to see if there's a difference, but they'd have to have more ridged controls for life style. For example, how do the brains of meditators compare with those people who read for pleasure for an hour a day, or exercise 30 min per day, or play chess or do cross words every day, or simply do something on a regular basis that they enjoy and find relaxing? Perhaps just reducing stress in any way benefits the brain. Not to mention the influence of diet.
With all the brain research coming out these day's one thing is clear, there's a multitude of complexly interacting factors affecting the brain, it's development, it's plasticity, and how it ages.
Just throwing a bunch a people into an MRI or PET or whatever they used does not in my opinion constitute a study. Seems like the researcher was more interested in proving that how clever they are for choosing to meditate.
To the two who have responded: That's great. Just speculating here, but both of you applied to Harvard/MIT, were rejected, don't understand why they'd reject people of your vast intelligence, and now hold grudges?
Thanks,
Allen.
Thanks,
Allen.
Hey Allen.
Just leaving it to the experts are you. Whoever's employed by, or affiliated with the most prestigious institution or has the highest level of credentials is correct. That's a great way to settle any debate. Makes life a lot simpler than having to thinking about what you hear or read. So I guess you wouldn't even need to read the article, just the headline " Meditation Found To Increase Brain Size". There you go, case settled. Oh right, I forgot, and who said it, Harvard, Yale, and MIT. Now there you go.(Note that neither A. Mani nor myself were saying the finding was necessarily false). But that raises the question of how you found your way to the forum, which is in fact a place specifically dedicated to discussion and debate. By the way do you meditate? Just guessing that perhaps you do judging by your apparent defensiveness at any criticism of the meditation article. If you do meditate then an interesting hypothesis to investigate may be that of a possible negative correlation between meditation and critical thinking skills. It would have to be properly controlled for of course, but I guess that wouldn't matter to you as long as the investigator(s) had higher credentials than you do.
Yours is an interesting theory though....leaving things to the experts. Sounds like it works well for you. Good luck with that.
Just leaving it to the experts are you. Whoever's employed by, or affiliated with the most prestigious institution or has the highest level of credentials is correct. That's a great way to settle any debate. Makes life a lot simpler than having to thinking about what you hear or read. So I guess you wouldn't even need to read the article, just the headline " Meditation Found To Increase Brain Size". There you go, case settled. Oh right, I forgot, and who said it, Harvard, Yale, and MIT. Now there you go.(Note that neither A. Mani nor myself were saying the finding was necessarily false). But that raises the question of how you found your way to the forum, which is in fact a place specifically dedicated to discussion and debate. By the way do you meditate? Just guessing that perhaps you do judging by your apparent defensiveness at any criticism of the meditation article. If you do meditate then an interesting hypothesis to investigate may be that of a possible negative correlation between meditation and critical thinking skills. It would have to be properly controlled for of course, but I guess that wouldn't matter to you as long as the investigator(s) had higher credentials than you do.
Yours is an interesting theory though....leaving things to the experts. Sounds like it works well for you. Good luck with that.
I applaud the childish and unprovoked personal attack by Allen. It has exceptional merit, no doubt stemming from a brain of immense proportions. The sheer integrity of scandal free MIT and Harvard, the ethical nature in which they rebuff all donations from industry to ensure a dearth of conflicts of interest, and their steadfast policy of only accepting students based on their level of intelligence and not the level of their parent's bank account, these are things that cannot be questioned. With that, I too cast stones at Staggerbot and Amani. How dare they provide thoughtful insight.
INTOLERANCE of IDEAS whether from a science freak who doesn't believe in the existence of a supreme being, or a religious fanatic who doesn't believe in science at all, or the silly rantings of an average know-it-all is the obstacle to knowledge.
Remember the dean from Harvard who said about a hundred years ago that everything that has to be invented has been invented?
Or the panel members of the Inquisition who sincerely believed that modifying Catholic beliefs would destroy the world, justifying the murder of heretics?
Or even the producer in the early 60's who rejected a band calling themselves "The Beatles", saying their music will never sell.
Meditation may be the light. Who knows? Let them speak. They may be right. Or they may be wrong.
But insulting other people's ideas is definitely the mark of a small mind.
Remember the dean from Harvard who said about a hundred years ago that everything that has to be invented has been invented?
Or the panel members of the Inquisition who sincerely believed that modifying Catholic beliefs would destroy the world, justifying the murder of heretics?
Or even the producer in the early 60's who rejected a band calling themselves "The Beatles", saying their music will never sell.
Meditation may be the light. Who knows? Let them speak. They may be right. Or they may be wrong.
But insulting other people's ideas is definitely the mark of a small mind.
Here's just a bit of a counter balance to the implied conclusiveness of the article. It should also satisfy people who respect authority to the point of deference.
"The question is getting a lot of attention from the media, but Harvard Medical School professor of psychology Stephen Kosslyn, PhD, tells WebMD that the hype is getting ahead of the science.
Kosslyn moderated a seminar in which the new studies on meditation and brain activity were presented.
"These studies show that it is possible to do science on this topic, but it is much too early to conclude anything at all from them," he says."
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/115/111633.htm
"The question is getting a lot of attention from the media, but Harvard Medical School professor of psychology Stephen Kosslyn, PhD, tells WebMD that the hype is getting ahead of the science.
Kosslyn moderated a seminar in which the new studies on meditation and brain activity were presented.
"These studies show that it is possible to do science on this topic, but it is much too early to conclude anything at all from them," he says."
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/115/111633.htm
The diatribes in this forum are rather ironic. I would presume the scientific goal of an experiment on brain sizes -- no matter if scientifically flawed or meritorious -- would be that of increasing intelligence and then ultimately, the betterment of mankind. However, perhaps the researchers would better serve mankind in the end if they examined how we could expand the paramaters of our thought process rather than the actual physical size of our brains.
Allen lashes out at the intelligence of those who dare suggest the science of the study was at fault and insinuates those who did not attend an Ivy League institution are not fit to comment. VexAll tells us that intolerance is an obstacle to knowledge, and yet casts those who dare comment into three distinct sectors: "science freak who doesn't believe in the existence of a supreme being, or a religious fanatic who doesn't believe in science at all, or the silly rantings of an average know-it-all".
Perhaps the greatest benefit of meditation is the silence.
Allen lashes out at the intelligence of those who dare suggest the science of the study was at fault and insinuates those who did not attend an Ivy League institution are not fit to comment. VexAll tells us that intolerance is an obstacle to knowledge, and yet casts those who dare comment into three distinct sectors: "science freak who doesn't believe in the existence of a supreme being, or a religious fanatic who doesn't believe in science at all, or the silly rantings of an average know-it-all".
Perhaps the greatest benefit of meditation is the silence.
hi!
This is not a new thing,what ever they found was already found by Indiad SAINTS...any way we are happy to the fact that they have approved the fact,,,,
regards/mahesh.
This is not a new thing,what ever they found was already found by Indiad SAINTS...any way we are happy to the fact that they have approved the fact,,,,
regards/mahesh.
It all depends on what part of your brain you want to develop.
Your brain will improve complexity in whatever region you focus on. People who pray develop their God Module. People who work with languages develop their language center connections. Working on balance improves that.
It's no surprise that there's a physical manifestation of exercising the brain. We all have a moral duty to ensure that our brains are as healthy and optimized as we can get them to be.
Your brain will improve complexity in whatever region you focus on. People who pray develop their God Module. People who work with languages develop their language center connections. Working on balance improves that.
It's no surprise that there's a physical manifestation of exercising the brain. We all have a moral duty to ensure that our brains are as healthy and optimized as we can get them to be.
[COLOR=red] Hello
I think that meditation is just a state where people literally explore the consciousness and start experimenting with thoughts. I do not think that there is any mystical stuff involved, but I do think that it probably stretches the brain to new limits and so it needs to expend to it.
If you are thinking of things that are abnormal, far more connections have to be made. I do not know what they think about, but I would think it is the most abstract things imaginable.
CREED
I think that meditation is just a state where people literally explore the consciousness and start experimenting with thoughts. I do not think that there is any mystical stuff involved, but I do think that it probably stretches the brain to new limits and so it needs to expend to it.
If you are thinking of things that are abnormal, far more connections have to be made. I do not know what they think about, but I would think it is the most abstract things imaginable.
CREED
In general, meditation focuses our conscious mind on things that we normally ignore (breathing, heartbeat, etc.). We already have brain space devoted to those functions, so I don't know how useful meditation is. Are we trying to free up the subconscious to make it more available? Or are we devoting pathways to something that is already handled?
According to Wikipedia's entry, the human cerebral cortex is .08 - .16 inches thick. 4 to 8 thousandths of an inch doesn't sound like much, but it's hard to know how much a difference we would need to be "significant." The fact that meditation makes a difference that's measurable at all is fascinating in and of itself. Unfortunately the article spent more time talking about meditation techniques and subjective experiential factors than commenting on how well controlled the study was. Hopefully this study will provoke interest and more research will be done so that we can better understand the effects of meditation.
Meditation is a pretty broad catagory. Makes you think that you have to go cross-legged. (half-lotus position)
Visualisation techniques that focus the attention are I assume what they refer to.
Mark Joyner has a practical application of visualisation techniques that repeated over time leads to what he calls "remarkable success". His "Simple Science for Getting what You Want" is a sort of 21st century manifestation of meditation and I speculate that it also will create physical changes in the brain. Why is it that some people do acquire unusual success and make great strides in personal evolution when they actually practice a mental discipline?
We can create these changes in the brain without resorting to a lot of eastern religious ideas. We do not need to pay a Guru to teach us how to stare at the tip of our nose.
Easier said then done. I do recommend Mark Joyner if you are "secular" and still want to find a way to create a beefy brain that can get what it wants out of life.
Chris Titan
http://toxicbloging.blogspot.com/
Visualisation techniques that focus the attention are I assume what they refer to.
Mark Joyner has a practical application of visualisation techniques that repeated over time leads to what he calls "remarkable success". His "Simple Science for Getting what You Want" is a sort of 21st century manifestation of meditation and I speculate that it also will create physical changes in the brain. Why is it that some people do acquire unusual success and make great strides in personal evolution when they actually practice a mental discipline?
We can create these changes in the brain without resorting to a lot of eastern religious ideas. We do not need to pay a Guru to teach us how to stare at the tip of our nose.
QUOTE
focus on the present moment, on what needs to be done and what is happening right now
Easier said then done. I do recommend Mark Joyner if you are "secular" and still want to find a way to create a beefy brain that can get what it wants out of life.
Chris Titan
http://toxicbloging.blogspot.com/
Hello
Me medtate for time, now. BRane bigger than Slags so Slag seig he leev me aloan. Good. Dinosour meat. Like.
Encino emote now...
Me medtate for time, now. BRane bigger than Slags so Slag seig he leev me aloan. Good. Dinosour meat. Like.
Encino emote now...
I have great faith and belief in the Art of Insight Meditation. I am very happy with new studies on Meditation and the Brain and how meditation could be so helpful for our lives and well-being. I love to meditate, but sometimes I feel so lost not knowing where I am, this article has brought some new lights for me on this path of inner peace and self-purification...
I have great faith and belief in the Art of Insight Meditation. I am very happy with new studies on Meditation and the Brain and how meditation could be so helpful for our lives and well-being. I love to meditate, but sometimes I feel so lost not knowing where I am, this article has brought some new lights for me on this path of inner peace and self-purification..."An unexamined life is a life not worth living" ~Socrates...
Its being calm and collective, and then careful only focusing on one thing which matters.
And "meditation" employs this, BUT in a set of different "cult" than doing it, in a normal atmoshphere/situation.
Noise IS meant to decrease concentration, and this method tries to eliminate noise.
It will ONLY increase how much of the thought processes are taking place and THUS ones brain usage and clarity.
Its the EFFECT of the variables controlled/eliminated.
JUST because it employs these useful "traits", they can EASILY be implemented for actions away from meditation of any sort, but relaxing and being quiet.
Try it, it helps.
Especially in objective thinking, away from "belief" of any sort.
Thanks.
And "meditation" employs this, BUT in a set of different "cult" than doing it, in a normal atmoshphere/situation.
Noise IS meant to decrease concentration, and this method tries to eliminate noise.
It will ONLY increase how much of the thought processes are taking place and THUS ones brain usage and clarity.
Its the EFFECT of the variables controlled/eliminated.
JUST because it employs these useful "traits", they can EASILY be implemented for actions away from meditation of any sort, but relaxing and being quiet.
Try it, it helps.
Especially in objective thinking, away from "belief" of any sort.
Thanks.
Allen, I'm with ya. I'm not a scientist, (yet), but at least I have mastered simple spelling and grammar, or on second notion, pressing the spell check button. How intellecutal can one appear when one cannot even spell correctly the word 'willful'?
There is no doubt that Meditation is beneficial to us. Gautam Buddha was an Indian Saint and people in the east have already experienced the power of meditation. However, I agree that we should not completely rely on whatever information that is provided to us. May it be Harvard or Yale. A research is research. It has to be done properly. It must explore and study all possibilities, all details of the subject. A research cannot be complete untill all aspects of the subject are examined properly.
At the same time, we should understand that although meditation is originally a part of Hinduism and Buddhism, it does stop you from believing in your own religion or belief. Meditation is free of all religions. Anyone can practice meditation. So as we already know that mediation is good, we should start meditating and not wait for educational or scientific authority to confirm the positive effects of meditation.
luv all
QUOTE (STAGGERBOT+Feb 1 2006, 05:23 PM)
Amazing! An increase in thickness of 4 to 8 thousandths of an inch!
What percent increase is that? What's the standard deviation in thickness between subjects? I'm just guessing here but I imagine the natural variation between subjects is greater than 4-8 thousandths of an inch. How did they control for the subjects ages? They mention how the thickness normally decreases with age but not how age was controlled for in the experiment.
It could be interesting to study the differences between people who meditate and those who don't to see if there's a difference, but they'd have to have more ridged controls for life style. For example, how do the brains of meditators compare with those people who read for pleasure for an hour a day, or exercise 30 min per day, or play chess or do cross words every day, or simply do something on a regular basis that they enjoy and find relaxing? Perhaps just reducing stress in any way benefits the brain. Not to mention the influence of diet.
With all the brain research coming out these day's one thing is clear, there's a multitude of complexly interacting factors affecting the brain, it's development, it's plasticity, and how it ages.
Just throwing a bunch a people into an MRI or PET or whatever they used does not in my opinion constitute a study. Seems like the researcher was more interested in proving that how clever they are for choosing to meditate.
Well put! If they wanted accurate results they should have made test subjects more specific. Ethnicity has a role in brain size too. Back in times of early humans, lifestyles changed with region. People of the cold northern regions of europe had poor growing seasons and depended more on meat for sustinence. This increased protein diet (as opposed to other areas of the world which also consumed much fish and veggies) lead to, over time, an increased brain mass. This and other human evolutions have been found to still hold through to today.
an idea for their test procedure would be for them to find one person, and another with basically the same lifestyle and backround but meditates
What percent increase is that? What's the standard deviation in thickness between subjects? I'm just guessing here but I imagine the natural variation between subjects is greater than 4-8 thousandths of an inch. How did they control for the subjects ages? They mention how the thickness normally decreases with age but not how age was controlled for in the experiment.
It could be interesting to study the differences between people who meditate and those who don't to see if there's a difference, but they'd have to have more ridged controls for life style. For example, how do the brains of meditators compare with those people who read for pleasure for an hour a day, or exercise 30 min per day, or play chess or do cross words every day, or simply do something on a regular basis that they enjoy and find relaxing? Perhaps just reducing stress in any way benefits the brain. Not to mention the influence of diet.
With all the brain research coming out these day's one thing is clear, there's a multitude of complexly interacting factors affecting the brain, it's development, it's plasticity, and how it ages.
Just throwing a bunch a people into an MRI or PET or whatever they used does not in my opinion constitute a study. Seems like the researcher was more interested in proving that how clever they are for choosing to meditate.
Well put! If they wanted accurate results they should have made test subjects more specific. Ethnicity has a role in brain size too. Back in times of early humans, lifestyles changed with region. People of the cold northern regions of europe had poor growing seasons and depended more on meat for sustinence. This increased protein diet (as opposed to other areas of the world which also consumed much fish and veggies) lead to, over time, an increased brain mass. This and other human evolutions have been found to still hold through to today.
an idea for their test procedure would be for them to find one person, and another with basically the same lifestyle and backround but meditates
i applaud people who can think critically and not just accept new findings
without a query.
So what if that is from harvard or MIT?
It is not the fanciful results that matter.
It is how they do it, the methodology, how they rule out differences in brain thickness by chance (using good controls), and finally how significant is that finding,a p value of <0.05 would at least tell me that the observed difference is due to chance difference in less than 5% of the time.
Those who just accept new study results like gospel such Allen and gang,
are either too lazy to think or just not knowing how to think critically.
DOn't just blindly support a finding to suit your own belief! But of course i am assuming that everyone in here knows how to dissect a study to see if the result is valid and significant.
without a query.
So what if that is from harvard or MIT?
It is not the fanciful results that matter.
It is how they do it, the methodology, how they rule out differences in brain thickness by chance (using good controls), and finally how significant is that finding,a p value of <0.05 would at least tell me that the observed difference is due to chance difference in less than 5% of the time.
Those who just accept new study results like gospel such Allen and gang,
are either too lazy to think or just not knowing how to think critically.
DOn't just blindly support a finding to suit your own belief! But of course i am assuming that everyone in here knows how to dissect a study to see if the result is valid and significant.
So ..... it doesn't make your dlck bigger ..... duh! 
I am a strong believer in this new finding that mediation can cause the brain size to grow. Not only does mediation help reielve stress now it actually incrseses brain zize, fantastic. I myself have been doing meditation for about three years now and hope some day that mediation will be used universally in order to help people live out there stressful everyday lives
Hello,
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By regularly practising the stillness and mindfulness exercises presented during the breaks, Stillness Buddy quickly and effectively helps you to:
* Cultivate a deep sense of peace and stillness in your every day life.
* Remain in touch with the joy and love that you are.
* Be more relaxed in your body, less tense.
* Work in a more mindful, alert and stress-free manner
* Live more and more in the present moment
Stillness Buddy is for those of us who want to be more at peace and aware of the present moment, in the midst of our busy lives. It is also a great tool if you want to feel less tense and stressed. It is suitable for people of all walks of life, regardless of their spiritual practice or religious background.
You can find more about Stillness Buddy and download a 30-day free trial, at www.stillnessbuddy.com
Please give it a try and let me know what you think. If you like it, please help me to spread the word!
Many thanks,
Hectoritobh
I am writing to invite you to try "Stillness Buddy", a software application I've just launched!
Stillness Buddy helps you to remain mindful of the present moment, relaxed and at peace, while working at the computer.
It works by displaying short "moments of stillness" and longer "mindfulness pauses", interspersed during the day. These breaks are designed to be very brief, so that they don't interfere with your work. You can choose their duration and frequency, to suit your preferences and schedule.
By regularly practising the stillness and mindfulness exercises presented during the breaks, Stillness Buddy quickly and effectively helps you to:
* Cultivate a deep sense of peace and stillness in your every day life.
* Remain in touch with the joy and love that you are.
* Be more relaxed in your body, less tense.
* Work in a more mindful, alert and stress-free manner
* Live more and more in the present moment
Stillness Buddy is for those of us who want to be more at peace and aware of the present moment, in the midst of our busy lives. It is also a great tool if you want to feel less tense and stressed. It is suitable for people of all walks of life, regardless of their spiritual practice or religious background.
You can find more about Stillness Buddy and download a 30-day free trial, at www.stillnessbuddy.com
Please give it a try and let me know what you think. If you like it, please help me to spread the word!
Many thanks,
Hectoritobh
I'm trying the 'Stillness Buddy' and think that it is a good idea.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
What was your face before your mother was born? Can your mind answer this?
Ask yourself honestly a thousand times, trying very, very hard to answer that question..until you will find you are refreshed, your mind, your body is refreshed, is renewed, because you DO NOT exhaust your energy, your mind with that question. That is the purpose of the question, this Zen meditation. Try it. Just a hundred times asking honestly to answer that unanswerable question.
Regards.
jsaldea12
Any exercise we do can be done with a form of physical level so we can bring in Spirituality into it.
If we simply do the exercise then you could be doing it mechanically.
Even a exercise like running without mind aspect will have its benefits
BUT if done bringing Mind and Breathing into it, reaps more benefits
I also like the Tao-Tai chi jin formula of Mind/Heart + Breathing + Postures = Jin
I like to remind myself and others with me - that Yoga means union of Body + Mind + Soul
We can strive to do any exercise bringing mind/heart and our spirit into it and it can become spiritual.
Once we understand meditation, any thing we do can become meditaiton.
If we are playing basketball, and we are fully there, One with the team,
aware of each person presence, when we pass the ball we become one with the person passed to...
Western sports are hard on the body and can be dangerous. They can produce
high levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many have died running long marathons.
You also consume energy, not generate.
I have noticed that practicing the internal martial arts or zhan zhuang properly, not only makes me feel really good, but also makes my mind more peaceful. A really awesome combination.
If we simply do the exercise then you could be doing it mechanically.
Even a exercise like running without mind aspect will have its benefits
BUT if done bringing Mind and Breathing into it, reaps more benefits
I also like the Tao-Tai chi jin formula of Mind/Heart + Breathing + Postures = Jin
I like to remind myself and others with me - that Yoga means union of Body + Mind + Soul
We can strive to do any exercise bringing mind/heart and our spirit into it and it can become spiritual.
Once we understand meditation, any thing we do can become meditaiton.
If we are playing basketball, and we are fully there, One with the team,
aware of each person presence, when we pass the ball we become one with the person passed to...
Western sports are hard on the body and can be dangerous. They can produce
high levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Many have died running long marathons.
You also consume energy, not generate.
I have noticed that practicing the internal martial arts or zhan zhuang properly, not only makes me feel really good, but also makes my mind more peaceful. A really awesome combination.
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