I've checked out those other posts, and Nila Sagadevan, as an aeronautical engineer, seems to know what he is talking about. I have also found other articles which point out that ground effect is a real physical phenomenon.

The aircraft was flying low to the ground, as the broken light poles signify; it was not on a controlled glide slope, with its aiming point the junction between the wall of the Pentagon and the ground, as someone else has indicated.

Furthermore, the reason I was searching for material on ground effect was because I had experienced it myself, and the pilot of the aircraft I had just stepped out of gave me a full explanation of why he couldn't get the plane onto the runway until he'd reduced his speed and, therefore, the ground-effect air cushion which was keeping the plane from touching down.

That personal experience together with Nila Sagadevan's explanation (plus a few others), as well as the fact that the many videos, which would should have shown a 757 crashing, were stolen by the FBI and have never been see since, at least not by those of us who doubt the official story, convinces me that it is unlikely that a 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

Add to that the fact that the hole it was supposed to have made was, at the most, only 90 feet wide, with three support pillars still hanging in there, which would have reduced its "plane passage" dimension to about 80 feet, while the wingspan of a 757 is 124 feet, give or take a foot or two. And common sense leads me to believe that aircraft wings do not fold up and follow their fuselage into a confined space, except if they are designed to do that, as they are on some aircraft which land on ships. Just the weight of the engines makes that a ridiculous assertion.

Which makes it highly unlikely that what crashed into the Pentagon was a Boeing 757

Then there is the fact that two 19-ton Rolls Royce RB211 engines were never found, and conclusively identified, when they, rather than the fuselage, would have been more likely to reach the first inner roadway within the building, because of the greater density; mass to volume ratio. If the fuselage is given a nominal density of one, then the engines would have a relative density of at least four; possibly five.

Which makes it extremely unlikely that what crashed into the Pentagon was a Boeing 757.

Then there is the anomaly that all of the passengers were supposed to have been identified by their DNA, recovered from within the Pentagon, yet very little of the plane was recovered and identified, including that small piece that ended up near the highway, nor was there any attempt to reconstruct it, as is normally done, not only with crashed aircraft, but with the Space Shuttle, as well.

Then there is the fact that governments have been know to lie to their citizens in the past.

And why won't Boeing answer my e-mails about ground effect?

With all of the above suggesting that a lot of people have been hiding the truth, any sane person would be foolish, indeed, to believe what the politicians have told us, particularly as 9/11 was used as the clarion call to launch two disastrous and murderous wars, as well as unprecedented attacks upon the freedoms of those being asked to bear the costs, in human terms, as well as the ignominy of fighting them.

______________________________
The truth won't set you free, but identifying the liars may make the world a better place.

If you agree with Nila that then FIND SOME EVIDENCE, besides this unsubstantiated quote to prove it.

You can't compare a pilot who is trying to make a SMOOTH landing in a plane at a low airspeed and high angle of attack (where ground effect is greatest) and thus has to deal with ground effect which NO ONE DISPUTES can lengthen a landing, with a HIGH SPEED JET with no flaps and a LOW angle of attack.

There is NOTHING WHICH PREVENTED THE JET from flying the way it did.

NOTHING.





Now before you write back "those aren't 757s", remember ground effect doesn't know that.


Those aren't support pillars 'hanging in there" that's the second floor slab hanging down.

Actually the engines were found, one inside, the one that hit the generator trailer remained outside, and yes they have been identified. What comes out the other side is dependent on if it hits one or more of the interior columns first, not just your simplistic mass exercise. As far as DENSITY goes though, nothing is denser than the landing gear, and gee, guess what made it all the way through?

As we have seen, the low frame rates of the surveillance cameras are of little use in convincing idiots that it wasn't a 757.

Reconstructing aircraft is not NORMALLY done. It HAS been done, when we are trying to learn something about what precipitated a crash, but that OBVIOUSLY was NOT the case here, thus there was NOTHING to be gained by putting the plane back together.

Boeing won't return your emails for the OBVIOUS reason.

But since you are not likely to figure out the reason on your own maybe this article will help explain it.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../18/MN73840.DTL

Arthur

I cannot believe you retards are still seriously defending your Conspiracy theories.

There is no Conspiracy here.

There is no MOTIVE for a Conspiracy.

What is the motive for killing 3000 people?

Who would gain ANYTHING and what is it that they would gain by Killing 3000 people?



MOTIVE?
NONE!!!!!!
(Make BUSH and Republicans Look Bad.)

Who would gain?
NOBODY!!!!!!
(Democrats by making the Republican president look bad to get back at them for slamming on Clinton)

What would they gain?
NOTHING!!!!!!
(More of my and my Companies time and money spent going through the F#@*ed up Security at Airports and some federal UNION Jobs)

Hey maybe the Democrats were behind the whole thing

I'm sorry even a Brand new huge federal bureaucracy Complete with several thousand Union employees like the TSA and making republicans look bad are not enough to KILL 3000 People.


Maybe some of you Conspiracy theorists can present at the very least a MOTIVE.

Have a DAY

osama is a cia operative and has close ties with the bush family for years with buisness


do u like false inteligence?


if so dont look here

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/articlesosama.html

osama is a cia operative and has close ties with the bush family for years with buisness


do u like false inteligence?


if so dont look here

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/articlesosama.html


The MOTIVE is to make money many benifited from 9/11

larry silverstein 6 weeks before put an unsermountable ammount of insurance on wtc7 the most in history, coincidence? wake up....

"Cui Bono?"

"Cui Bono?" is Latin for "who benefits?"

Is there a connection between the rich flow of profit and market manipulations flowing from 9-11 and the stonewalling by the Administration and the agency members of the National Security Council?

Time has passed since September 11, 2001. As new budgets are approved, financial statements published, laws passed, taxes cut and stocks go up, it is easier to identify who benefited politically and financially from 9-11.

As we map out the financial "real deal" on 9-11, we realize there are three categories of people benefiting.

Richly Guilty: The first category of people who benefited were those who are guilty and complicit in designing, implementing and financing the 9-11 operation. On such a sophisticated and successful covert operation, the people responsible would have had budgets and financing and would have organized the operation to maximize their political and financial benefits. This is the nature of economic warfare.

Richly Opportunistic: The second category of people who benefited were those who were opportunistic in taking advantage of 9-11 as an economic and political event as soon as it happened. Some folks, such as money managers, are obligated as fiduciaries to be opportunistic. Others, such as government officials, may be opportunistic at the cost of ignoring their fiduciary obligations. As one retired banking executive said, "Let's face it, if the guys in Washington had been doing their job instead of helping their pals make money, 9-11 could never have happened."

Sustainably Na�ve: The third category of people who benefited where those who shared in the political and economic profits generated by the first two categories. Taking the position that, "money has no smell," the large number of people in this category are generally not cognizant of their complicity through the incentive system created by "voting with their money, time and attention."

Where to begin to determine the specifics of who benefited? This is a significant task for private citizens who do not have the rich flow of investigatory, intelligence and enforcement resources of government. Hence, a citizen led effort will need to break the task down into manageable collaborative pieces.

One way for global networks of researchers, blog authors and Internet media to start to build the "Cui Bono?" unanswered questions of 9-11 is to develop a framework that outlines the general areas of profiteering.

Top 20 Areas of 9-11 Profiteering

Here are my candidates for the top twenty profit flows resulting from or related to 9-11 and the response to 9-11:

**** # # # ****

Money Missing from the US Treasury

In fiscal 1999 and 2000, the Department of Defense (DOD) reported $3.3 trillion of undocumentable adjustments in the process of failing to produce audited financial statements. In the summer of 2001, the appropriations for DOD failed to report out of committee before the summer recess. The political tension between arms manufacturers and defense contractors who anticipated pay back from the Bush election victory and those pressing for federal spending and financing to conform to spending and securities law was resolved by 9-11.

The questions remain � who has the $3.3 trillion plus missing from the US Treasury? what is the role of the NY Federal Reserve Bank and its members as depository for the US government and agent for the Exchange Stabilization Fund? and why are we proposing to cut back social security rather than getting these resources back?

Useful Link:

Where is the Money?
http://www.whereisthemoney.org

US Stock Market Pump & Dump Fraud

At the time of 9-11, federal and state enforcement leaders were facing a mountain of documentation that up to $6 trillion had been fraudulently skimmed out of pension funds and retail stock holdings through insider trading and other forms of corporate and banking financial fraud and securities law violations.

The events of 9-11 are alleged to have destroyed significant amounts of documentation related to investigations against Wall Street firms and leading New York Federal Reserve members. Subsequent to 9-11, enforcement bureaucracies attention shifted in response to the Patriot Act and a shift in budgetary resources away from policing white collar crime by corporate and banking leadership."Cui Bono?"

"Cui Bono?" is Latin for "who benefits?"

Is there a connection between the rich flow of profit and market manipulations flowing from 9-11 and the stonewalling by the Administration and the agency members of the National Security Council?

Time has passed since September 11, 2001. As new budgets are approved, financial statements published, laws passed, taxes cut and stocks go up, it is easier to identify who benefited politically and financially from 9-11.

As we map out the financial "real deal" on 9-11, we realize there are three categories of people benefiting.

Richly Guilty: The first category of people who benefited were those who are guilty and complicit in designing, implementing and financing the 9-11 operation. On such a sophisticated and successful covert operation, the people responsible would have had budgets and financing and would have organized the operation to maximize their political and financial benefits. This is the nature of economic warfare.

Richly Opportunistic: The second category of people who benefited were those who were opportunistic in taking advantage of 9-11 as an economic and political event as soon as it happened. Some folks, such as money managers, are obligated as fiduciaries to be opportunistic. Others, such as government officials, may be opportunistic at the cost of ignoring their fiduciary obligations. As one retired banking executive said, "Let's face it, if the guys in Washington had been doing their job instead of helping their pals make money, 9-11 could never have happened."

Sustainably Na�ve: The third category of people who benefited where those who shared in the political and economic profits generated by the first two categories. Taking the position that, "money has no smell," the large number of people in this category are generally not cognizant of their complicity through the incentive system created by "voting with their money, time and attention."

Where to begin to determine the specifics of who benefited? This is a significant task for private citizens who do not have the rich flow of investigatory, intelligence and enforcement resources of government. Hence, a citizen led effort will need to break the task down into manageable collaborative pieces.

One way for global networks of researchers, blog authors and Internet media to start to build the "Cui Bono?" unanswered questions of 9-11 is to develop a framework that outlines the general areas of profiteering.

Top 20 Areas of 9-11 Profiteering

Here are my candidates for the top twenty profit flows resulting from or related to 9-11 and the response to 9-11:

**** # # # ****

Money Missing from the US Treasury

In fiscal 1999 and 2000, the Department of Defense (DOD) reported $3.3 trillion of undocumentable adjustments in the process of failing to produce audited financial statements. In the summer of 2001, the appropriations for DOD failed to report out of committee before the summer recess. The political tension between arms manufacturers and defense contractors who anticipated pay back from the Bush election victory and those pressing for federal spending and financing to conform to spending and securities law was resolved by 9-11.

The questions remain � who has the $3.3 trillion plus missing from the US Treasury? what is the role of the NY Federal Reserve Bank and its members as depository for the US government and agent for the Exchange Stabilization Fund? and why are we proposing to cut back social security rather than getting these resources back?

Useful Link:

Where is the Money?
http://www.whereisthemoney.org

US Stock Market Pump & Dump Fraud

At the time of 9-11, federal and state enforcement leaders were facing a mountain of documentation that up to $6 trillion had been fraudulently skimmed out of pension funds and retail stock holdings through insider trading and other forms of corporate and banking financial fraud and securities law violations.

The events of 9-11 are alleged to have destroyed significant amounts of documentation related to investigations against Wall Street firms and leading New York Federal Reserve members. Subsequent to 9-11, enforcement bureaucracies attention shifted in response to the Patriot Act and a shift in budgetary resources away from policing white collar crime by corporate and banking leadership.

Well, at least you've got it all figured out. It would be really scary to think that nobody was actually in control of the world. I would hate to think that it's all just a headless blunder operating under the illusion that someone is in control.

Heaven forbid that any "enemy" groups would want to kill us simply because of our way of life.

What if the world really was a collection of people with varying viewpoints, cultures, and ways of life? What if they really DIDN'T all just get along?! That would freak me out.

Thank you for pointing out that there truly is a "star chamber" of world controlling masters. Now I can sleep at night like never before. It all makes sense finally.

Thank God somebody is in control of all this!

--Dlanod

I would have never guessed some JEWISH guy runs the CIA, Al Qaeda, the Military industrial complex, Big Business, the current administration, and he is able to steal money from the Federal burocracy.


Does he Control the Democratic Party too?

I think he must why else would Bill Clinton have done the following.

1. Give classified missile guidance technology to the Chinese thereby starting a new space race giving the Military industrial complex the pretext to siphon off secret funds.

2. Let BP and Amoco Merge lessening the competition in the oil market benefiting Big Oil.

3. Allow the first World Trade Center to happen as a ploy to make Americans believe that Islamic terrorists exist after all we all know they are controlled by Larry Silverstein through his proxy Osama Bin laden in the CIA.


I must get to know this Larry Silverstein maybe he can give me an interest free loan.

Silly me I thought Islamic terrorist were in the business running a Jihad to destabilize democracies and install their caliphate all over the world to Kill the Infidels, the homosexuals, the women’s rights activists, to perform female circumcisions, Kill the Jews, Kill and or convert the (Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and any other religious group that is not Islam), to put an end to the pornographic Hollywood, Ballywood movie machine, to put the liberal media out of business, AND make us all follow SHARIA LAW as derived by MULLAS in the Qur'an.


Little did I know that some Jewish guy was responsible for this deception.

DUH! How Could I have missed it? Derpa Derpa Allah

Yeah right

"We are still trapped by the mentality of conspiracy theories, one that has limited our capability to think.”

--Ghazi Hamad, spokesman for the terrorist-supporting Hamas Government in the Palestinian Authority

Where R the 77 flight passengers?!!

CREW
Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis. Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.

PASSENGERS
Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell
Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.
Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.
Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.
Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy
Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.
Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.
Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.
Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.
Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

TOO IMPORTANT JOBS...NO?!?!?!?!