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xtrmn8r
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/marijuana_sql_dy.htm

What, exactly, is so bad about hemp? Is this guy right?
kaneda
Marijuana messes with the mind as it overloads receptors with hundreds of times certain chemicals as they are used to. Like cigarettes, because everyone does not die of cancer, it does not mean that they are safe. You can churn out people who have smoked all their life without harm but not the people who have gone paranoid, loss their intellect, even gone insane from smoking it as well as people who have died from throat cancer.

Anytime people can't get their way against the law, it's a conspiracy. There is no conspiracy. Marijuana is a dangerous drug and pointing to tobacco and alcohol as accepted dangerous drugs is no excuse for allowing it.

A note. It is said George Washington had a hemp plantation and it was not for rope.
gski
QUOTE
people who have gone paranoid, loss their intellect, even gone insane from smoking it as well as people who have died from throat cancer.


Sources please.
Enthalpy
Fun!

Now that more and more people are willing to combat global warming, it becomes a plea for anything.
Politicians already uses it to raise taxes.
Now, hemp would be good for. And even better than any plant, allegedly.

Probably the author couldn't figure out a way to explain how hemp helps in fight against terror. Or against child pornography. So global warming did it.
GeneSplicer
While some studies have suggested that habitual and/or heavy use of marijuana has been shown to interfere with the transition of short term memory to long term, I think the claim of anyone going insane from using it is not supported by fact or reality. This almost sounds like a left-over from the propaganda film “Reefer Madness”.

It has been claimed that the toxins in marijuana smoke can be worse than cigarette smoke for several reasons. The plant itself can contain more toxins depending on natural variation not to mention what was use to fertilize and grow the plant. The other factor is how it is smoked. Tobacco smokers inhale and promptly exhale. Marijuana smokers tend to hold the smoke in to absorb as much of the drug as possible and end up absorbing much more of the toxins as well.

Even considering this, it is difficult to track cases of throat cancer from marijuana due to the fact that many of not most marijuana users also smoke cigarettes.

One way around these toxin is to use a vaporizer. I do not recall any study utilizing these and testing for toxin levels in comparison to smoking the plant directly.

While it is common knowledge that Washington grew marijuana, are there any sources claiming he regularly used it as a recreational drug?

And based upon your claim that it causes paranoia, insanity and loss of intellect, what does that say about such a prominent figure of history considered to be a great man and thinker? Is he just an anomaly or are your claims about marijuana use incorrect?
xtrmn8r
While I, like many of my age group, grew up in the sixties and experimented with drugs, most notably pot, I think that there is sufficient empirical data that marijuana does not cause irreparable damage. Nobody I know went insane, died or was a participant in major crimes as a result of smoking pot.

That issue aside, my interest is more in use of hemp as a resource for commercial enterprises. Why has the uses of hemp not been explored as a viable replacement for forest products as the author of the article implies?
kaneda
QUOTE (gski+Jun 5 2007, 04:57 PM)

Sources please.

Don't you have a search engine?
kaneda
GeneSplicer. I do not debate with loons or stalkers.
kaneda
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Jun 6 2007, 03:27 AM)
While I, like many of my age group, grew up in the sixties and experimented with drugs, most notably pot, I think that there is sufficient empirical data that marijuana does not cause irreparable damage. Nobody I know went insane, died or was a participant in major crimes as a result of smoking pot.

That issue aside, my interest is more in use of hemp as a resource for commercial enterprises. Why has the uses of hemp not been explored as a viable replacement for forest products as the author of the article implies?

Hemp is a "dog with a bad name" to use a phrase because of it's associations with the drug of the same name. In stories of ships centuries ago you often hear of the use of hemp ropes. I think there are too many alternatives nowadays for them to need hemp lines.
gski
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 6 2007, 09:44 AM)
Don't you have a search engine?

Never mind I'm not getting involved with this.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 6 2007, 05:46 AM)
GeneSplicer. I do not debate with loons or stalkers.

So in other words, all that you have to add to the forum is unsubstantiated claims and uninformed opinion, once again.

It must be comforting to be able to dismiss people on such simplistic castigation(s) rather than provide references for such questionable claims.

You may not realize this or care about this, but if you keep making such unsubstantiated claims and dismissing anyone who asks for references or who wants to debate about it, your posts will be viewed as no different as those made by the likes of Paul Riven, Steve1957, MMC or Dad1.

GSKI has the right idea.
adoucette
While commercial strains of Hemp plants produce SOME THC the amount is very little. Industrial hemp is catagorized as having no more than 0.3% THC contained in a random sampling of the dried flowering tops (which is where the highest concentrations of THC are found).

California recently passed a bill allowing farmers to grow industrial hemp and 7 other states are expected to vote on it this year.

Its time has come.

If any are actually interested in the issue of industrial hemp (and it is a marvelous plant) see http://www.thehia.org/index.html

Arthur
NEU-FONZE
I really don't understand why any plant should be considered illegal. Why not go after minerals too? Perhaps monazite should be declared illegal; after all, its bad for your health if you eat it!
GeneSplicer
Hi Neu-Fonze.

This is a result of people who seek to limit others due to their ignorance, bias, personal opinions and/or religious views. In the U.S. there is still a number of the population who want to ban everything including alcohol.

Considering there are still people quoting the nonsensical claims of the propaganda films of decades past, are you really that surprised?

What other old and outdated claims can we entertain?
OldWoman1904
mary jane, booze, cocaine, heroine, pills......chemical habits.....personally, i like to smoke a little mary jane...there...i said it....i love to alter my perception...my people have been doing it for centuries.....white people drink.....

funny.....i work among some very rich and successful people...dont associate with them..im the "help" tongue.gif but, judgement goes both ways...

the "big and important la dee da" people would certainly look down their nose at my little sack of marijuana.....maybe? blink.gif ive never asked

but on the other hand...i huff and puff at them for drinking at functions that i think are not the place to drink....like Halloween....we go trick or treating in the rich neighborhood...those people are drunk tongue.gif

and i look down my nose at pills....

but im high.......

so, maybe the question is, why do we people love to alter our perception so much.....?
blink.gif
NEU-FONZE
Perhaps because our day to day reality sucks!

Or,

Perhaps it's because when the doors of perception are cleansed we see everything as it really is.... infinite.... "To see a world in a grain of sand"

(to paraphrase William Blake)
OldWoman1904
Neu-fonze are you a chemist?

i have chemical questions.....

xtrmn8r

adoucette

QUOTE
While commercial strains of Hemp plants produce SOME THC the amount is very little. Industrial hemp is catagorized as having no more than 0.3% THC contained in a random sampling of the dried flowering tops (which is where the highest concentrations of THC are found).


This is exactly what I mean. Why has the government been so reticent to allow the study of a plant which can be modified to be of no use as a drug. The article that drew my attention to this, claims conspiracies from big business, but couldn't hemp be big business?

Something here just doesn't seem right!!

Thanx for the link!
NEU-FONZE
OldWoman1904:

Of course I'm a chemist, but of the physical variety!
newton
less law.
less government.
less police.
less centralization of power. these are the hallmarks of a healthy society.

there are people in their seventies, and older, even, that have smoked pot their whole lives.
recent studies have shown that studies can show any bias the studiers wish to support.
adoucette
QUOTE (newton+Jun 6 2007, 06:53 PM)
recent studies have shown that studies can show any bias the studiers wish to support.


laugh.gif

Including the bias that any study can show bias that the studiers wish to support?

Arthr
kaneda
For those without search engines :

Marijuana causes :Sleepiness
Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory
Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination, such as driving a car
Increased heart rate
Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
Bloodshot eyes
Dry mouth and throat
Decreased social inhibitions
Paranoia, hallucinations
Impaired or reduced short-term memory
Impaired or reduced comprehension
Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
Psychological dependence
Impairments in learning, memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving, and forming concepts
Intense anxiety or panic attacks
Schizophrenia
Depression/anxiety

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effects-of-marijuana.htm

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=1735


Some users may see the above mental effects signs of a sound mind. No drug user will admit that his/her drug of abuse is harming them so tells us that they have been using that drug for X years without problems. However even X+1 years can mean death for some abusers as I saw from a (tobacco) smoker who boasted of smoking since age 14 without harm and died age 60 of throat cancer.
newton
QUOTE (adoucette+Jun 7 2007, 01:58 AM)

laugh.gif

Including the bias that any study can show bias that the studiers wish to support?

Arthr[sic]

i'm glad we could bond for this tiny chunk of space-time.

no. the study that shows studies are biased is completely unbiased. all other studies are biased.

User posted image

nobody hallucinates on dope. that's nuts.

i was in japan, and a leading doctor was telling me that people would running around killing people(and he made a stabbing motion) if they smoked dope for a year. this guy was a leading medical spokesman and appeared on talk shows regularly.
of course, i stabbed him, but i could see he was a giant scorpion monster with venom dripping fangs and rainbow patterns gliding over his skin, so who could blame me.

most the other crap on that list is complete B.S., too. i have been doing studies that prove it.
Capracus
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 7 2007, 06:31 AM)
For those without search engines :



Some users may see the above mental effects signs of a sound mind. No drug user will admit that his/her drug of abuse is harming them so tells us that they have been using that drug for X years without problems. However even X+1 years can mean death for some abusers as I saw from a (tobacco) smoker who boasted of smoking since age 14 without harm and died age 60 of throat cancer.

I know in an ideal world that smoking pot is not the best way to get your jollies, but so much of what is considered acceptable behavior in our society has a far greater impact on the collective health of our planet. I would consider pot use off the radar screen when compared to issues regarding diet (hemp nutritional products), resource consumption (hemp biofuels and plastics), and breeding habits (hemp condoms).

If you really want to have an effect on the global state of health, make a stand against the abuse of plant sugars that are responsible for such societal ills as obesity, diabetes, and alcohol production. More hemp, less sugar beets.

ETA: Can you imagine a world with more marijuana and less sugar? In a former life that would have been unthinkable.
kaneda
Capracus. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Capracus
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 7 2007, 11:25 AM)
Capracus. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Kaneda, if it were up to you, what other useful substances would be banned?
adoucette
As I pointed out, legalizing the growing of INDUSTRIAL grade Hemp is NOT the same as legalizing the smoking of Marijuana.

Arthur
Capracus
QUOTE (adoucette+Jun 7 2007, 12:13 PM)
As I pointed out, legalizing the growing of INDUSTRIAL grade Hemp is NOT the same as legalizing the smoking of Marijuana.

Arthur

How could the DEA tell from the air? May as well just make it all legal.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 7 2007, 02:31 AM)
For those without search engines :

Marijuana causes :Sleepiness
Difficulty keeping track of time, impaired or reduced short-term memory
Reduced ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination, such as driving a car
Increased heart rate
Potential cardiac dangers for those with preexisting heart disease
Bloodshot eyes
Dry mouth and throat
Decreased social inhibitions
Paranoia, hallucinations
Impaired or reduced short-term memory
Impaired or reduced comprehension
Altered motivation and cognition, making the acquisition of new information difficult
Psychological dependence
Impairments in learning, memory, perception, and judgment - difficulty speaking, listening effectively, thinking, retaining knowledge, problem solving, and forming concepts
Intense anxiety or panic attacks
Schizophrenia
Depression/anxiety

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effects-of-marijuana.htm

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=1735


Some users may see the above mental effects signs of a sound mind. No drug user will admit that his/her drug of abuse is harming them so tells us that they have been using that drug for X years without problems. However even X+1 years can mean death for some abusers as I saw from a (tobacco) smoker who boasted of smoking since age 14 without harm and died age 60 of throat cancer.

Facts are something you simply cannot do justice to can you?

You claim the marijuana uses causes Intense anxiety or panic attacks.

This is either and ignorant claim, one made by parroting the claims of others or just a lie to bolster your claims. Everyone in their life will experience panics attacks at one time according to most research into the subject. Marijuna can cause a person with anxiety disorder, panic anxiety disorder or one prone to panic attacks to experience one or to have one worsened by the drug. In fact, any drug can cause the same effect. So can chocolate, coffee and tea since caffeine can also trigger or worsen a panic attack.

You claim the marijuana uses causes schizophrenia.

Again, this is not factual. Studies have shown that heavy marijuana use during adolescence may make it more likely for a person to develop schizophrenia statistically.

I already addressed the issue with memory and retention, but again this is worse in habitual and/or heavy marijuana users.

The rest of your list is either the effect of the drug while you are on it, the effects of habitual or chronic use or risks for taking any drug, illegal or otherwise.

You also claimed that marijuana use causes insanity. Where is the study and medical research that shows this to be true? The only time this claims has been made that I know of is in the propaganda film Reefer Madness.

Also, next time you seek to blindly search for websites that support your unsupported and antiquated claims, try not to pick the site of a drug addiction treatment company who has a vested interest in treating people with addictions.

As far as the smoker you cite, 46 years of exposure to a litany of toxins will cause health problems or even death and cigarettes are a know risk factor. What does that have to do with the unsubstantiated claim you made about marijuana?

Odd. For someone with a search engine, you seem to have overlooked a huge amount of research when you compiled your list.
adoucette
QUOTE (Capracus+Jun 7 2007, 07:35 AM)
How could the DEA tell from the air? May as well just make it all legal.

This would have little to do with making marijuana more available.

As a parent I quickly learned that it was the ILLEGAL drugs that my children could easily get, while REGULATED drugs like Alcohol and Tobacco were much more difficult for them to come by.

Why?

Well the regulated drugs come from actual stores and propriators don't want to risk their licences just to make a few bucks, while the illegal drugs were readily available because they were sold to them by their peers.

Apparently the Canadians are managing to allow Hemp to be grown.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/substancont...at/index_e.html

Arthur
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 7 2007, 06:31 AM)
http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effects-of-marijuana.htm

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=1735

www.marijuanaaddiction.info is a useless source. Their 'research' is simple regurgitation of old propaganda and discredited studies. Otherwise they would have noted the particle size differences between tobacco and hemp due to hemp burning at a higher temperature.

QUOTE
Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.


WHILE SHOOTING UP COCAINE?!?!?! Oh yeah, here's an accurate set of test data...
And while we're on it, if taking cocaine doesn't raise your heart rate and blood pressure, seek help immediately, you might be dead.

From the NIH:
QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.


WHILE SHOOTING UP COCAINE?!?!?! Oh yeah, here's an accurate set of test data...
And while we're on it, if taking cocaine doesn't raise your heart rate and blood pressure, seek help immediately, you might be dead.

From the NIH:
Frequent marijuana smokers had small increased risks of outpatient visits for respiratory illnesses (relative risk [RR] = 1.19; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.01, 1.41), injuries (RR = 1.32; CI = 1.10, 1.57), and other types of illnesses (RR = 1.09; CI = 1.02, 1.16) compared with nonsmokers; their risk of being admitted to a hospital was elevated but not statistically significant (RR = 1.51; CI = 0.93, 2.46). Analyses were adjusted for sex, age, race, education, marital status, and alcohol consumption. Daily marijuana smoking, even in the absence of tobacco, appeared to be associated with an elevated risk of health care use for various health problems.


Notice the conflict of statements here? "compared with nonsmokers; their risk of being admitted to a hospital was elevated but not statistically significant " and then "appeared to be associated with an elevated risk of health care use"

This is the type of garbage the NIH is basing it's recommendations on. Studies tailored or twisted to give the outcome they want.

From SafeAccessNow.org:
QUOTE
A review of the literature suggests that the majority of cannabis users, who use the drug occasionally rather than on a daily basis, will not suffer any lasting physical or mental harm. Conversely, as with other 'recreational' drugs, there will be some who suffer adverse consequences from their use of cannabis.


will not suffer any lasting physical or mental harm

And of course there is the small problem that there has never, in the history of medicine, been a case of anyone dying from Marijuana.

Now personally, I don't really care if they legalize marijuana. I don't smoke it (as per above it does nothing to or for me) and I prefer other incense. What really tells the tale about the entire situation is not that pot is illegal. it's that industrial hemp is illegal. You'll puke your guts out long before you get high off the stuff, but it grows under the same conditions as pot. (Damn near anywhere, it's called weed for a reason.) So why would a plant that's useless as a drug, grows easily anywhere, and has dozens of industrial uses be banned? Especially after we wrote our highest laws on paper made out of it?
adoucette
What will get the growing of hemp leaglized is the realization that we are importing SO MUCH of it. Import figures for products made of hemp are now over 250 million per year and growing at an annual basis.

Arthur
GeneSplicer
This must be just more lies propagated by a group of drug using, memory challenged, schizophrenic, paranoid and insane university researchers.

And in Germany no less! I’ll refrain from implementing a form of Godwin’s law in reference to the German researchers.

Link

QUOTE
Cannabis compound reduces skin allergies in mice

Cannabis can reduce allergic skin reactions, a new study suggests. The findings may lead to new drugs based on tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in the plant, to treat allergy and autoimmune disorders.

Andreas Zimmer at the University of Bonn in Germany, and colleagues created a group of mice that lack the receptor for endocannabinoids – forms of THC produced naturally in the body. The team noticed that the mice soon developed a severe skin allergy to the nickel in the metal tags the researchers had fastened to their ears.

Zimmer set up a series of experiments to test the anti-allergy effect of natural and synthetic THC compounds.
Corvidae
QUOTE
Cannabis can reduce allergic skin reactions


The common cold can reduce allergic skin reactions. The question is whether it has a useful efficacy. Cannabis does have medical uses, however I'm thinking calamine lotion might be better at dealing with skin irritations.
GeneSplicer
This is more targeted towards autoimmune diseases that include inflammatory conditions such as asthma and eczema, perhaps even psoriasis. Traditional ointments and lotions may be able to relieve some of the symptoms, but this would, or rather could, address the root cause.
Pan
Pot causes your penis to instantly shrivel up and fall off.

That's not true, but assuming it is, why should a person be denied the experience to do such a thing to himself? Let's instead throw that person into jail to be @$$ raped and indoctrinated into criminal life!!

And that list of pot reactions is too funny. Oh no, sleepiness?! Dry mouth?!! The horror!! Pot causes hunger, increased desire to watch TV, and smelly clothes too!!

Know what else it causes? People to think they have a #*cking clue, and post their stupid ideas on how physics is wrong and their crazy theories are The Truth!!



Capracus
QUOTE (adoucette+Jun 7 2007, 01:56 PM)
This would have little to do with making marijuana more available.

As a parent I quickly learned that it was the ILLEGAL drugs that my children could easily get, while REGULATED drugs like Alcohol and Tobacco were much more difficult for them to come by.

Why?

Well the regulated drugs come from actual stores and propriators don't want to risk their licences just to make a few bucks, while the illegal drugs were readily available because they were sold to them by their peers.

Apparently the Canadians are managing to allow Hemp to be grown.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/substancont...at/index_e.html

Arthur

I realize that drug enforcement and eradication efforts are a joke and a huge waste of government revenue, but like so many public and private endeavors, it puts money in peoples pockets and food on their tables, so resistance to change remains strong. Legal restrictions never prevented me from getting more than I needed, but they did cause me the waste a lot of money due to restricted supply. It wouldn't surprise me if pot growers and distributors had lobbyist in Washington to keep the stuff illegal.

I know from my own experience that government will not prevent my children from abusing harmful substances, no more than they can prevent them from living life in a reckless manner in general.

A policy of legalization and regulation would allow for more transparency of the costs and benefits of pot use, and a means of funding regulation and research through the taxation of the products.
adoucette
QUOTE (Capracus+Jun 7 2007, 05:59 PM)
A policy of legalization and regulation would allow for more transparency of the costs and benefits of pot use, and a means of funding regulation and research through the taxation of the products.

A policy of legalization and regulation would actually make it MUCH easier to control and much harder for the youth to get.

Arthur
Capracus
QUOTE (adoucette+Jun 7 2007, 11:18 PM)
A policy of legalization and regulation would actually make it MUCH easier to control and much harder for the youth to get.

Arthur

You're right in the sense that it would dry up the black market supply. Overall, I'm not sure if it would have much of an impact on use by minors, as that is more of a function of societal conditioning. In the end, I think that the negative aspects of marijuana will be dealt with in the same way that tobacco use is today. Over the last half century tobacco use has dwindled due to societal ostracization, I don't think the lessons to be learned with pot will take nearly as long.
xtrmn8r
The course this topic has taken has, I think, answered my question.

While I expected the discourse to gravitate toward the use of marijuana as a recreational drug, my original interest was why the government seems hellbent on suppressing any useful study on the commercial usage of hemp as an industrial product.

It seems clear that any discussion about this plant, on any level, will continue to be about it's affects as a drug instead of the plethora of more beneficial uses.

This seems a shame!!
kaneda
Today's news for druggies who claim their addiction is harmless :


QUOTE
Mental health hospital admissions in England due to cannabis have risen by 85% under Labour, figures show.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6732005.stm


Old but relevant news :


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Mental health hospital admissions in England due to cannabis have risen by 85% under Labour, figures show.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6732005.stm


Old but relevant news :


Almost half of patients treated for a cannabis related mental disorder go on to develop a schizophrenic illness, a study has suggested.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4486548.stm


QUOTE
A cannabis cigarette being rolled
The government's drug advisory panel is meeting to decide if a decision to downgrade cannabis should be reversed after worries about mental health.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4277408.stm


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
A cannabis cigarette being rolled
The government's drug advisory panel is meeting to decide if a decision to downgrade cannabis should be reversed after worries about mental health.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4277408.stm


Cannabis-based medicines can cause paranoia and anxiety in some people, a study has suggested.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4396911.stm


Having read some posts here on this subject, I think they provide proof that cannabis/marijuana ruins a person's mental abilities. No doubt what is left of their drug-ravaged brains will deny this.
kaneda
Capracus. Read what has happened in Switzerland where they legalised the drugs, where parks are full of drug addicts and used needles are left lying about.


Read about Holland where heterosexual men and women sell their bodies for their next fix.


Read what adoucette says on global warming. He's a nut who spends all his time looking for sites where cranks deny facts.
kaneda
xtrmn8r. There are two million regular cannabis users in the UK at present but around twelve million cigarette smokers. What is to stop many of the twelve million cigarette smokers changing to cannabis if it is legalised?


Like you and other drug addicts, the people who smoke tobacco will say it is harmless and that they should be left to smoke if they want to, though statistics say that half of them will die because they smoke.
TaddPeake
QUOTE (Pan+Jun 7 2007, 08:27 PM)
Let's instead throw that person into jail to be @$$ raped and indoctrinated into criminal life!!

I'm not sure where you're coming from, but in case your post was an argument that pot should be legal because otherwise law-abiding citizens receive extreme punishment for using/selling, etc., I'll offer this:

If pot is merely a harmless and non-addictive recreational drug, then Why On Earth would any reasonably intelligent person risk life, liberty, property, dignity and freedom for something that makes you stupid?

Where's my proof that pot makes you stupid? See above: willingness to trade liberty for a buzz.

There is something else going on here.

GeneSplicer
First article mentions acute cannabis psychosis, and again, you brush over the details the flash news piece does cover.

Link

QUOTE
There are suggestions that in a small number of cases Cannabis is capable of precipitating psychosis, going on to the chronic picture described below, in people who have had no family and personal history of psychiatric illness.There have been suggestions that such people may be the ones who have started Cannabis in their teens and caused disturbance to neural connectivity. However, it seems Cannabis can precipitate or exacerbate a schizophrenic tendency in a characteristic manner.[2]


Again, it was mentioned before that chronic use and such use in the teens can lead to such and outcome. You make it sound as if it is definite. And again, the research into such effects do not support your claims.

Why are you quoting newspapers rather that research?

Your second source also supports the research and not your views.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
There are suggestions that in a small number of cases Cannabis is capable of precipitating psychosis, going on to the chronic picture described below, in people who have had no family and personal history of psychiatric illness.There have been suggestions that such people may be the ones who have started Cannabis in their teens and caused disturbance to neural connectivity. However, it seems Cannabis can precipitate or exacerbate a schizophrenic tendency in a characteristic manner.[2]


Again, it was mentioned before that chronic use and such use in the teens can lead to such and outcome. You make it sound as if it is definite. And again, the research into such effects do not support your claims.

Why are you quoting newspapers rather that research?

Your second source also supports the research and not your views.

The researchers said cannabis users showed signs of schizophrenic illness earlier than others with the condition.


And

QUOTE
The researchers, led by Mikkel Arendt, say the study did not show cannabis caused the development of schizophrenia - because it was not possible to control for other factors such as hereditary predisposition, other drug use and socio-economic status.

But they say the fact patients with cannabis-induced psychotic symptoms developed schizophrenia at a younger age than non-users suggests that cannabis use may hasten the progress of the illness.


Hasten the progress of an illness they already would have developed. So where is your proof that it causes this condition in people who would not normally get it?

Your third newspaper source is a rehash of the same and has already been addressed.

Your fourth newspaper article not only does not support your claims, but what the paper mentions has already been discussed here. If you had bothered to actually read the posts, you would have learned that THC as well as chocolate, coffee and tea can induce anxiety attacks or make them worse.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
The researchers, led by Mikkel Arendt, say the study did not show cannabis caused the development of schizophrenia - because it was not possible to control for other factors such as hereditary predisposition, other drug use and socio-economic status.

But they say the fact patients with cannabis-induced psychotic symptoms developed schizophrenia at a younger age than non-users suggests that cannabis use may hasten the progress of the illness.


Hasten the progress of an illness they already would have developed. So where is your proof that it causes this condition in people who would not normally get it?

Your third newspaper source is a rehash of the same and has already been addressed.

Your fourth newspaper article not only does not support your claims, but what the paper mentions has already been discussed here. If you had bothered to actually read the posts, you would have learned that THC as well as chocolate, coffee and tea can induce anxiety attacks or make them worse.

Having read some posts here on this subject, I think they provide proof that cannabis/marijuana ruins a person's mental abilities. No doubt what is left of their drug-ravaged brains will deny this.


So everyone who does not believe your unsupported and antiquated claim is a defacto drug user with mental damage? Nice "us-vs-them" , simplistic G.W Bush polarized thinking.

What is being denied is the research that proves your claims totally without support.

Where is your proof that use of marijuana has ever causes a person to become insane?

And if you can manage, try to find something a little more substantive that newspaper articles or editorials that you Google for sloppy support of your claims. If you had of actually read what you posted, I’m sure you would not have used articles that do not support your claims.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Jun 8 2007, 12:44 AM)
The course this topic has taken has, I think, answered my question.

While I expected the discourse to gravitate toward the use of marijuana as a recreational drug, my original interest was why the government seems hellbent on suppressing any useful study on the commercial usage of hemp as an industrial product.

It seems clear that any discussion about this plant, on any level, will continue to be about it's affects as a drug instead of the plethora of more beneficial uses.

This seems a shame!!

You are absolutely correct. Due to the propaganda of decades past and the simplistic platitudes about drugs today, any mention of hemp will evoke this type of response from the indoctrinated.

Antiquated thinking and erroneous claims of people like Kaneda will not only link the two together, but see their use as exactly the same with the same risks for lack of a better word.

Perhaps when the older, less informed and less rational generation is no longer an issue, we can change this. Hopefully more of the following generations will be able to see ideologies like fear-based religions or fear-based social platitudes like “drugs are bad” for the nonsense they are.
Corvidae
QUOTE (xtrmn8r+Jun 8 2007, 04:44 AM)
It seems clear that any discussion about this plant, on any level, will continue to be about it's affects as a drug instead of the plethora of more beneficial uses.

This seems a shame!!

Yes it is. The discussion will keep gravitating that way because the restriction against industrial hemp is due to drug laws. Which is more than fine for the few lobbyists that oppose legalization for any other reasons. Hemp can produce 3x more lumber per acre than you'll get out of pine. The wood it produces is harder to burn, takes longer to rot, and is stronger for it's size. Although it is heavier.

The lumber industry doesn't have to oppose legalization though. They can leave it to the religious groups to oppose on moral grounds. The politicians love having something that's easy to take the moral high ground with, so they're in no rush to change anything either.

So in the end, it's easier to oppose pot than support intelligent legislation about it. Just like most other issues. If it gets into the public spotlight, you have to be able to defend it with a catch phrase. If you can't, you'll lose. The American public won't take the time to look into it, and make an intelligent choice. Our news agencies are far more interested in entertainment than information, so they have no reason to inform the public either. It's doubtful they even could, seeing as they fired 80% of their investigative reporters back in the 80's.
adoucette
What Kanada posts:

QUOTE
Mental health hospital admissions in England due to cannabis have risen by 85% under Labour, figures show.


What the ARTICLE says:

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Mental health hospital admissions in England due to cannabis have risen by 85% under Labour, figures show.


What the ARTICLE says:

In 1996-7, there were 510 admissions, rising to 946 in 2005-6,


Now consider that in relation to these other quotes from the same article.

QUOTE
Admissions are not the same as patients, so one patient may have been admitted more than once.


and finally

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Admissions are not the same as patients, so one patient may have been admitted more than once.


and finally

Cannabis is the most widely used illegal drug in the country with over 2m regular users.


Which gives an admissions rate of ~ 3/100 of a percent of users.


The FACT is, if you take the time to read the studies the most compelling evidence of a link between cannabis and mental health problems seems to be related to regular/heavy use before ~ 18 years of age (and particularly before 15).

From my experience as a parent, I know that my kids (below 18) had a difficult time getting alcohol (legal age 21) but had no trouble at all getting pot because they could buy that AT SCHOOL.

NONE of my posts advocate its use, but ALL of my posts advocate its LEGALIZATION and REGULATION such that its use can be CONTROLLED and DECRIMINALIZED.


Arthur








xtrmn8r
kaneda (Posted on Today at 7:49 AM)

QUOTE
xtrmn8r. There are two million regular cannabis users in the UK at present but around twelve million cigarette smokers. What is to stop many of the twelve million cigarette smokers changing to cannabis if it is legalized?


Like you and other drug addicts, the people who smoke tobacco will say it is harmless and that they should be left to smoke if they want to, though statistics say that half of them will die because they smoke.


First of all, I have not had any drugs stronger than aspirin in over thirty years,you don't know me well enough to be insulting! My experimentations with drugs were the result of being in college at a time when such things were readily available and being stupid was expected...thats why one goes to school!! I will accept an apology.

Secondly, I find it hard to believe that just because marijuana becomes legal that everyone will immediately run out and begin smoking it!

Thirdly, as I have stated, my interest in this subject has nothing to do with the aspect of hemp as a drug. Frankly, I couldn't care less if it becomes legal to smoke, I just think the uses of this plant as a replacement for forest products is remarkable and worthy of further study.
GeneSplicer
xtrmn8r

One of your original questions I neglected to answer. You asked if this guy was right or not.

To some degree, yes, but the original article, and his derivative conclusions, are mostly spin and full of omissions that leave the reader with a view of history and “fact” that are in error.

Always remember that in such arguments both sides tend to spin facts toward their side.

In any event, even if the use of hemp is a reasonable pursuit, such omissions and spin do nothing to aid this argument.
xtrmn8r
GeneSplicer Posted on 6/9/07 at 12:42 AM

xtrmn8r

QUOTE
One of your original questions I neglected to answer. You asked if this guy was right or not.

To some degree, yes, but the original article, and his derivative conclusions, are mostly spin and full of omissions that leave the reader with a view of history and “fact” that are in error.

Always remember that in such arguments both sides tend to spin facts toward their side.

In any event, even if the use of hemp is a reasonable pursuit, such omissions and spin do nothing to aid this argument.


Yea..I agree. I sent an email to the author stating similar concerns. The response,in part, is below. While I might agree that the government would have a problem with an about-face, industry is not so shameless and money is always an issue.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
One of your original questions I neglected to answer. You asked if this guy was right or not.

To some degree, yes, but the original article, and his derivative conclusions, are mostly spin and full of omissions that leave the reader with a view of history and “fact” that are in error.

Always remember that in such arguments both sides tend to spin facts toward their side.

In any event, even if the use of hemp is a reasonable pursuit, such omissions and spin do nothing to aid this argument.


Yea..I agree. I sent an email to the author stating similar concerns. The response,in part, is below. While I might agree that the government would have a problem with an about-face, industry is not so shameless and money is always an issue.

.....I try to answer that question you raised to many who've wrote to me - why not just legalize it?  That's not how the world works...Is the government going to reveal that they have been working with aliens?  Same thing...they are not going to suddenly go against POLICY.  And let people know they have been WRONG FOR SO LONG ABOUT HEMP?  They have to 'save face' with their lies.  The world got to its corrupt state by stepping on the weak and helpless - they are not going to change their evil ways and HELP THE WORLD!  Remember, they have all the money in the world...and really don't need any more.  It's US who are poor and must be subjected to modern-day fascism.....

kaneda
xtrmn8r. I have not the slightest interest in wine so why would I write a post saying how good it was? Hemp rope had it's day over a century ago and we have many alternatives now so do not need it. So why are you championing hemp? I will accept an explanation.


People will try marijuana to find out if they've been missing anything and many will stick with it because that is how human stupidity goes. They will be told that it is safer than cigarettes by liars who smoke it.


How does modern rope affect forests, nylon being a good example? How are we going to get hemp other than clearing land and in the third world, forests to grow it?
adoucette
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 10 2007, 10:03 AM)
xtrmn8r. I have not the slightest interest in wine so why would I write a post saying how good it was? Hemp rope had it's day over a century ago and we have many alternatives now so do not need it. So why are you championing hemp? I will accept an explanation.


This is not about Marijuana its about HEMP.

You obviously didn't follow my previous link so here's a small excerpt:

Hemp seed is nutritious and contains more essential fatty acids than any other source, is second only to soybeans in complete protein (but is more digestible by humans), is high in B-vitamins, and is a good source of dietary fiber. Hemp seed is not psychoactive and cannot be used as a drug.

The bark of the hemp stalk contains bast fibers, which are among the Earth's longest natural soft fibers and are also rich in cellulose. The cellulose and hemi-cellulose in its inner woody core are called hurds. Hemp stalk is not psychoactive. Hemp fiber is longer, stronger, more absorbent and more insulative than cotton fiber.

According to the Department of Energy, hemp as a biomass fuel producer requires the least specialized growing and processing procedures of all hemp products. The hydrocarbons in hemp can be processed into a wide range of biomass energy sources, from fuel pellets to liquid fuels and gas. Development of bio-fuels could significantly reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and nuclear power.

Hemp can be grown organically. Only eight, out of about one hundred known pests, cause problems, and hemp is most often grown without herbicides, fungicides or pesticides. Hemp is also a natural weed suppressor due to fast growth of the canopy.

Hemp produces more pulp per acre than timber on a sustainable basis, and can be used for every quality of paper. Hemp paper manufacturing can reduce wastewater contamination. Hemp's low lignin content reduces the need for acids used in pulping, and its creamy color lends itself to environmentally-friendly bleaching instead of harsh chlorine compounds. Less bleaching results in less dioxin and fewer chemical by-products.

Hemp fiber paper resists decomposition, and does not yellow with age when an acid-free process is used. Hemp paper more than 1,500 years old has been found. Hemp paper can also be recycled more times than wood-based paper.

Hemp fiberboard produced by Washington State University was found to be twice as strong as wood-based fiberboard. No additional resins are required due to naturally-occurring lignins.

Eco-friendly hemp can replace most toxic petrochemical products. Research is being done to use hemp in manufacturing biodegradable plastic products: plant-based cellophane, recycled plastic mixed with hemp for injection-molded products, and resins made from the oil, to name a very few examples. Over two million cars on the road today have hemp composite parts for door panels, dashboards, luggage racks, etc.



Countries Growing Industrial Hemp Today
The U.S. is the only industrialized nation in the world that does not recognize the value of industrial hemp and permit its production. Below is a list of other countries that are more rational when it comes to hemp policy.

AUSTRALIA began research trials in Tasmania in 1995. Victoria commercial production since1998. New South Wales has research. In 2002, Queensland began production. Western Australia licensed crops in 2004.

AUSTRIA has a hemp industry including production of hemp seed oil, medicinals and Hanf magazine.

CANADA started to license research crops in 1994. In addition to crops for fiber, one seed crop was licensed in 1995. Many acres were planted in 1997. Licenses for commercial agriculture saw thousands of acres planted in 1998. 30,000 acres were planted in 1999. In 2000, due to speculative investing, 12,250 acres were sown. In 2001, 92 farmers grew 3,250 acres. A number of Canadian farmers are now growing organically-certified hemp crops (6,000 acres in 2003 and 8,500 acres in 2004, yielding almost four million pounds of seed).

CHILE has grown hemp in the recent past for seed oil production.

CHINA is the largest exporter of hemp textiles. The fabrics are of excellent quality. Medium density fiber board is also now available. The Chinese word for hemp is "ma."

DENMARK planted its first modern hemp trial crops in 1997. The country is committed to utilizing organic methods.

FINLAND had a resurgence of hemp in 1995 with several small test plots. A seed variety for northern climates was developed called Finola, previously know by the breeder code "FIN-314." In 2003, Finola was accepted to the EU list of subsidized hemp cultivars. Hemp has never been prohibited in Finland. The Finnish word for hemp is "hamppu."

FRANCE has never prohibited hemp and harvested 10,000 tons of fiber in 1994. France is a source of low-THC-producing hemp seed for other countries. France exports high quality hemp oil to the U.S. The French word for hemp is "chanvre."

GERMANY banned hemp in 1982, but research began again in 1992, and many technologies and products are now being developed, as the ban was lifted on growing hemp in November, 1995. Food, clothes and paper are also being made from imported raw materials. Mercedes and BMW use hemp fiber for composites in door panels, dashboards, etc. The German word for hemp is "hanf."

GREAT BRITAIN lifted hemp prohibition in 1993. Animal bedding, paper and textiles markets have been developed. A government grant was given to develop new markets for natural fibers. 4,000 acres were grown in 1994. Subsidies of 230 British pounds per acre are given by the government to farmers for growing hemp.

HUNGARY is rebuilding their hemp industry, and is one of the biggest exporters of hemp cordage, rugs and fabric to the U.S. They also export hemp seed, paper and fiberboard. The Hungarian word for hemp is "kender."

INDIA has stands of naturalized Cannabis and uses it for cordage, textiles and seed.

ITALY has invested in the resurgence of hemp, especially for textile production. 1,000 acres were planted for fiber in 2002. Giorgio Armani grows its own hemp for specialized textiles.

JAPAN has a rich religious tradition involving hemp, and custom requires that the Emperor and Shinto priests wear hemp garments in certain ceremonies, so there are small plots maintained for these purposes. Traditional spice mixes also include hemp seed. Japan supports a thriving retail market for a variety of hemp products. The Japanese word for hemp is "asa."

NETHERLANDS is conducting a four-year study to evaluate and test hemp for paper, and is developing specialized processing equipment. Seed breeders are developing new strains of low-THC varieties. The Dutch word for hemp is "hennep."

NEW ZEALAND started hemp trials in 2001. Various cultivars are being planted in the north and south islands.

POLAND currently grows hemp for fabric and cordage and manufactures hemp particle board. They have demonstrated the benefits of using hemp to cleanse soils contaminated by heavy metals. The Polish word for hemp is "konopij."

ROMANIA is the largest commercial producer of hemp in Europe. 1993 acreage was 40,000 acres. Some of it is exported to Hungary for processing. They also export hemp to Western Europe and the U.S. The Romanian word for hemp is "cinepa."

SLOVENIA grows hemp and manufactures currency paper.

SPAIN has never prohibited hemp, produces rope and textiles, and exports hemp pulp for paper. The Spanish word for hemp is "cañamo."

SWITZERLAND is a producer of hemp and hosts one of the largest hemp trade events, Cannatrade.

TURKEY has grown hemp for 2,800 years for rope, caulking, birdseed, paper and fuel. The Turkish word for hemp is "kendir."

UKRAINE, EGYPT, KOREA, PORTUGAL and THAILAND also produce hemp.


Arthur
xtrmn8r
kaneda (Posted on 6/10/07 at 3:03 PM)

QUOTE
xtrmn8r. I have not the slightest interest in wine so why would I write a post saying how good it was? Hemp rope had it's day over a century ago and we have many alternatives now so do not need it. So why are you championing hemp? I will accept an explanation.


People will try marijuana to find out if they've been missing anything and many will stick with it because that is how human stupidity goes. They will be told that it is safer than cigarettes by liars who smoke it.


How does modern rope affect forests, nylon being a good example? How are we going to get hemp other than clearing land and in the third world, forests to grow it?


First, many thanks to adoucette's (Posted on 6/10/07 at 3:20 PM) in depth response,my research into this subject is just beginning.

Second, wine is legally grown and imbibed, I live in the most fertile area of the U.S. for wine grapes and have access to some of the very best wines in the world but rarely take advantage of it. Much the same for users of pot, I think.

Third, in the eco-aware atmosphere of todays culture nylon is not considered eco-friendly. Hemp is a weed and can be grown most anywhere which would not require the destruction of forests.

And fourth, I am not necessarily championing hemp, I just wonder why our government (and ,it seems, industry) is so dead set against further study of it.


GeneSplicer
Eco-aware atmosphere aside, isn’t it just common sense to use the K.I.S.S. principle when it come to raw materials and processing/production?

Which would be more sensible? The use of synthetic materials that take more energy and effort to process at nearly every state of the products life or viable organic materials requiring less effort and energy?

Hemp is not the only plant that is affected negatively by such crusades as the anti-drug movement. Tobacco, while used recreationally causes so much preventable damage and premature death, is a highly useful plant. It has been stated that tobacco is a genetic engineers dream plant since it is easily manipulated in biopharming and is one of the plants with the potential to produce natural compounds, pharmaceuticals and even human hemoglobin that could be possibly used for a source of artificial blood.

An article about the benefits and risks of biopharming:

Link

QUOTE
Drug Developments and the Appeal of Plant-Made Pharmaceuticals

The drug development process within the pharmaceutical industry has experienced a significant transformation over the last two decades, driven largely by biotechnology advances. Biotechnology played a key role in the expansion of large-molecule drugs (as opposed to the small-molecule drugs manufactured by chemical synthesis). Moreover, biotechnology further stimulated the trend toward biological sources for drugs and therapeutics. These drugs, known as biologics, include any protein, virus, therapeutic serum, vaccine, and blood component. Another major impact of biotechnology was to enable the industry to move beyond simple replication of human proteins (such as insulin or growth hormones). Rather, new biopharmaceuticals are genetically engineered proteins targeting some of the major illnesses in industrial countries, such as cancer, cardiovascular, and infectious diseases—all critical to an expanding aging population.
Capracus
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 10 2007, 03:03 PM)
xtrmn8r. I have not the slightest interest in wine so why would I write a post saying how good it was? Hemp rope had it's day over a century ago and we have many alternatives now so do not need it. So why are you championing hemp? I will accept an explanation.


People will try marijuana to find out if they've been missing anything and many will stick with it because that is how human stupidity goes. They will be told that it is safer than cigarettes by liars who smoke it.


How does modern rope affect forests, nylon being a good example? How are we going to get hemp other than clearing land and in the third world, forests to grow it?

Kaneda, nobody is advocating the return of hemp rope or smoking pot. As Arthur and others have pointed out, hemp products have great potential in our modern society.

Hopefully the practice of clearing forests for agriculture can be halted and reversed in the near future by halting and reversing population growth. What land that remains under cultivation must be used efficiently, and hemp may help to ensure that end. Hemp can replace many timber products, which will actually reduce deforestation.

Smokers have and will abandon tobacco because it is unhealthy, people will not take up smoking pot for the same reason. The smoking of pot was the main reason that I stopped using it over twenty years ago. If pot was made legal and was relatively inexpensive, many users would choose to ingest the narcotic rather than smoke it.
kaneda
xtrmn8r. I have no interest in what adoucette posts as he is a loony denier. I have no interest in such people.

I gave wine as an example. You have yet to show why you have any interest in so esoteric a subject as why your country does not make use of hemp? I presume your countrymen do not eat snails in garlic butter either (ugh!).

We could grow wheat in forests too but not harvest it easily. Dedicated areas would have to be made for hemp growing.

How would it benefit us if your country used hemp? Hemp rope can last for centuries so is not exactly biodegradeable while new plastics can be.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 11 2007, 11:48 AM)
xtrmn8r. I have no interest in what adoucette posts as he is a loony denier. I have no interest in such people.

Translation: I have been unable in the past to argue against them using reason, rational thought or verifiable fact, so I now ignore them and continue to post simplistic castigations about them.

Hemp is a plant that needs very little in the way of cultivation or fertilization to thrive, hence why our ancestors used it so much and so successfully. As pointed out before, land considered of poor quality can be used to grow it without the need to clear huge amount of new land. Some forms of scrubland or land considered of poor quality can be used.

More facts to be ignored:
Link

QUOTE
'"From the 1881 Household Cyclopedia':
The soils most suited to the culture of this plant are those of the deep, black, putrid vegetable kind, that are low, and rather inclined to moisture, and those of the deep mellow, loamy, or sandy descriptions. The quantity of produce is generally much greater on the former than on the latter; but it is said to be greatly inferior in quality. It may, however, be grown with success on lands of a less rich and fertile kind by proper care and attention in their culture and preparation.


QUOTE (->
QUOTE
'"From the 1881 Household Cyclopedia':
The soils most suited to the culture of this plant are those of the deep, black, putrid vegetable kind, that are low, and rather inclined to moisture, and those of the deep mellow, loamy, or sandy descriptions. The quantity of produce is generally much greater on the former than on the latter; but it is said to be greatly inferior in quality. It may, however, be grown with success on lands of a less rich and fertile kind by proper care and attention in their culture and preparation.


How would it benefit us if your country used hemp? Hemp rope can last for centuries so is not exactly biodegradeable while new plastics can be.


Hemp like any natural product can last for hundreds of years or it can be broken down and biodegraded quickly. There are finished wood products that are hundreds of years old. Do you actually think that if these items were broken up and placed in the open exposed to the elements that they would not break down? The same holds true for hemp and similar cellulous-based products.
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 11 2007, 03:48 PM)
xtrmn8r. I have no interest in what adoucette posts as he is a loony denier. I have no interest in such people.

And then you said
QUOTE
How would it benefit us if your country used hemp? Hemp rope can last for centuries so is not exactly biodegradeable while new plastics can be.


Pot, this is kettle. Kettle this is pot. I see we're all sticking with the black motif...

I'd comment more, but I think I have a headache from smacking myself in the forehead that hard.
gmilam
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 11 2007, 09:48 AM)
Hemp rope can last for centuries so is not exactly biodegradeable while new plastics can be.

blink.gif

dry.gif

laugh.gif

OK - this borders on funny... A plant that is not biodegradable.
xtrmn8r
kaneda Posted 6/11/07 at at 3:48 PM

QUOTE
xtrmn8r. I have no interest in what adoucette posts as he is a loony denier. I have no interest in such people.

I gave wine as an example. You have yet to show why you have any interest in so esoteric a subject as why your country does not make use of hemp? I presume your countrymen do not eat snails in garlic butter either (ugh!).

We could grow wheat in forests too but not harvest it easily. Dedicated areas would have to be made for hemp growing.

How would it benefit us if your country used hemp? Hemp rope can last for centuries so is not exactly biodegradeable while new plastics can be.


While you may have a problem with adoucette, I don't and the information he posted (that which I have had time to research) is of great value.

Second, my interest in this esoteric subject (which incidentally seems to garner alot of attention to be so esoteric), was sparked by the article by Doug Yurchy,linked at the beginning of this thread. And yes we eat escargot.

Third, dedicated areas already exist for growing hemp. Marijuana fields abound and law enforcement has been unable to make a significant difference.
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=73283859450073

And lastly, why does anything we do here have to to be of some benefit to you?
And, why,may I ask, are you so adamant against the research of hemp in the U.S. since you apparently don't even live here?
MDT
The main reason marijuana will not be legalized is that being illegal has created a lot of jobs, which would be lost. We are probally talking about 100,000+ jobs that exist because of that prohibition. That means a lot of lobbying and campaign kickbacks.

Let sort of count these jobs. The most obvious is law enforcement and the penal and correction systems. These all need equpment to do their jobs so their are uniforn manufacturers, auto and motorcycle manufacturers, guns, munitions, bullet proof vests, etc.,. Plus all the construction jobs needs to build more prisons. Even dogs have good jobs. Then there is the justice or injustice system depending on how one defines it. Lawyers alone make out like bandits. Then you need judges, procecuters and all their support staff. The paper, stationary and computer industries all benefit with jobs. Then the Feds are able to employs more ATF people, border patrols agents, coast guide, with big ticket items that benefit ship building, aircraft and helicopter, manufacturers, GSP, night vision inductries. etc., The FBI creates jobs with more agents and support, plus all the extra tech support staff which includes, scientists, lab techs who need DNA scanners and microscopes. Then there is the self-help industries. Hospitals, doctors, nurses, insurance companies, psychologists, psychiatrists, plus all the legal medicine suppliers. There are rehabs centers, half-way houses, private addiction practices, self help gurus, etc., There are also kickbacks, which is sort of like side jobs. All these jobs buys houses, grocieries, clothes, TV's, blue ray DVD players. There are also jobs created for the jewery industies for gold necklaces, diamond and all types of dealer bling. Which brings up the thousands of high paying tax free jobs for the inner cities.

I am sure I left out a whole bunch of things. Feel free to add. But one can see, even if studies proved marijuana to be harmless, an eco-monster has been created that will not be happy with such studies. So imprisoning people must be worth it, if we add it all up since the politians did the calculations. Polititans never lie, so we should trust they are doing the right thing, i.e., jobs for slavery.
kaneda
xtrmn8r. adoufuss is a sad individual who spends his declining years combing the internet for crank sites to try and show that thousands of scientists and experts on weather are wrong and that the hottest years since records began and the world's disappearing ice sheets are just a bit of warm weather. A true loony.

Hemp production in 1996 was down to 100,000 tons a year, from around 840,000 tons a year in 1940. I'd say it has had it's day.

Bank robberies happen, despite the law's efforts so should we make them legal?

People do not start threads on subjects they have no interest in.

I don't care if you grow hemp for rope production in America or not. I do care if you grow marijuana. It is called dope after the people who use it. America tells the rest of the world how to live so no double standards.
Capracus
Kaneda, in your quest to rid the world of substances of potential abuse, don't forget to add these to your list.
http://www.neias.org/pdf/MEIP/Checklist.pdf

Why not set an example for the rest of us and first rid your own enviorement of these dangerous substances. Be careful though, the temptation to indulge may be too hard to resist.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (kaneda+)
xtrmn8r. adoufuss is a sad individual who spends his declining years combing the internet for crank sites to try and show that thousands of scientists and experts on weather are wrong and that the hottest years since records began and the world's disappearing ice sheets are just a bit of warm weather. A true loony.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you not also in your declining years? Even though you appear to be a juvenile poser, you claim to be a retired Brit living in France.

And let us not forget your actions toward a large number of posters on this forum that many consider the best here. Your interaction with them and your responses to their rational points and questions has been juvenile name calling, accusations of living in trailers and working at McDonalds, accusations of multiple poster being just one person with puppet accounts, being active drug users, and distorting people names in a manner and fashion of your typical unruly child.

QUOTE (kaneda+)
People do not start threads on subjects they have no interest in.

You mean like the threads you started to attack and malign single posters you have a personal problems with?

xtrmn8r has asked and posed a legitimate question regarding a renewable resource and why ideological myrmidons link such a pliable and natural resource simplistically to drug use.

What you have provided does nothing other than to illustrate that outdate and simplistic ideology.

As with the debate(s) with Authur, you ignore the facts and instead go for personal insults.

The facts in this matter, as in many other debates you have entered into on this forum, stand in stark contradiction of your claims. Try addressing them rather than posting more castigations about people who apparently are here to debate and share opinions in earnest.

Or you can just keep adding people to your “Screw you guys, I’m going home” ignore list. Yet another reason why you appear not to be what you claim.
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 12 2007, 12:24 PM)
Hemp production in 1996 was down to 100,000 tons a year, from around 840,000 tons a year in 1940. I'd say it has had it's day.


Hemp production or marijuana production? Marijuana is a type of hemp, all hemp is not marijuana. As far as I know hemp production in the US is near 0. Marijuana on the other hand is the largest cash crop in the country. Yeah, there's less land dedicated to it, but whens the last time you saw corn on the cob for $120 an ounce?

QUOTE
I don't care if you grow hemp for rope production in America or not. I do care if you grow marijuana. It is called dope after the people who use it. America tells the rest of the world how to live so no double standards.


Arrogant much? America tries to tell the Iraqi's how to live. Other than the death squads, insurgents, the population and their neighbors it seems to be workin out peachy so far... Outside of that cluster**** most of the world is working on a nice steaming pile of hate. Other than Albania of course, which I still think is really creepy.

Back to the point though, stop thinking ROPE. No one who wants to grow industrial hemp in America wants to make rope. (Ok, there might be one freak, but I'm ignoring him.) The biggest uses for hemp are for biofuel, paper and lumber. These are massive commodities that the country needs. There just aren't enough bondage freaks to need that much rope. (And besides, the Japanese silk ropes work much better for that.)

Here's the problem though, industrial hemp looks like pot, smells like pot, doesn't taste like pot. Which means if someone plants their pot in the middle of a hemp field, you'd have to test or taste every plant to find it. The DEA would have a nightmare on their hands trying to catch anyone hiding plants in any of the fields, without burning down a legitimate farmers crops.

So as long as marijuana, the nearly harmless drug (when compared to nicotine anyway) remains illegal, our economy and industry are being short changed because they can't use the best materials for making houses, printing paper or powering our cars.
adoucette
I think a simple set of regs could be made that would work.

All seed must be purchased from REGISTERED suppliers, thus the seed would always be of the comercial strains (low THC content).

All fields must be registered and be AT LEAST X acres in size (no backyard plots, X should probably be > 5).

All fields must agree to allow inspection and a THC test of selected plants.

A field whose selected plants exceed the 0.3% THC content (buds only) would be COMPLETELY destoyed.

This would make the DEA's job fairly simple since it would require all plots of hemp to be registered and large and give the farmers STRONG incentive to prevent any mixing of illegal weed among their fields as the entire field would be destroyed.

Arthur
Corvidae
Yeah, but just think about how many inspectors and enforcement agents you'd have to have running around the country. Verifying land use, random sampling and testing. And that's before getting into the problem of "Yeah, test this plant right here and that new car is yours."

Mainly I just think about that kind of expense and difficulty and contrast that with someplace like Holland where it's legal, and they have half the addiction rate.

A lot of the so called political litmus tests end up in the same category. If you actually learn about it, what sounds like the most moral choice actually has a serious flaw.

Abortion, making it illegal doesn't stop abortions. It causes a rise in back street abortions and suicides. So the legalization choice is really a choice of allowing something that's horrible, to prevent something even more horrific.

Abstinence education instead of sex education. Because of it, we now have young girls using alternate entry holes for sex, and preliminary evidence suggests a higher teenage pregnancy rate due to a lack of contraceptives.

Prohibition instead of regulation, created moonshiners and hidden bars across the country.

Prostitution, there's a horrible one. Except it's openly legal in Nevada, or anywhere in the United States as long as you have a friend with a camera. The problem with it being illegal is that there are still prostitutes in every state. They aren't going to go away. The choice is do we want dirty downtrodden women hiding in alleys, being beaten by pimps and passing along STD's. Or would we rather have a secure location where everyone can be screened for STD's on a regular basis and there are police or security forces to prevent violence? Those are the two options, one of them will happen depending on which law is signed.

Time after time, if government tries to stop people from doing something, the people will go ahead and do it anyway. The tighter the regulation, the harder the fight. Generally the best bet is to try and regulate things to contain or mitigate the damage. Offer adoption services (And I mena offer, not force) at abortion clinics. Offer sex education with the advice that the best way to avoid an STD is not to exchange fluids (no sex). Double/triple the penalties for crimes if there are any drugs/alcohol involved, rather than trying to control the less dangerous drugs.
xtrmn8r
kaneda,

While I will admit to being biased toward legalization of hemp, of all the posters on this subject, you seem to contribute virtually the only dissenting opinion and full of empty rhetoric. If you have relevant source material (not government propaganda), I would like to see it. Reefer Madness..et al.. does not count.

To all others,

The point has been made that hemp is indistinguishable from that which is/is not of drug quality without testing each individual plant. An obviously onerous task, to be sure. The thought of putting the control of hemp production in the hands of the government is nightmarish.
So, that leaves private industry and they seem reticent to pursue the advantages, although some progress is being made.

Since marijuana is so accessible anyway, perhaps the ultimate solution would be to legalize it all, control the distribution, tax it and take away the criminal element. This approach seems contradictory but appears to solves more problems than it creates.

GeneSplicer
I think most agree that hemp is a viable resource and most would agree that it is tied, wrongly or not, to marijuana. So the argument goes back to legalization of marijuana.

People have to remember that in many states, there are laws that make the most nonsensical things illegal. In my state of Virginia, it was not that long ago that it was illegal for most businesses to operate on Sunday due to blue laws and in at least one city, tattoo parlors were illegal. Then there are the adult novelty shops that are granted business licenses only to be raided and shut down in some states.

The idea that you own you seems foreign to most people and any current ban on substances or activities related to personal ownership is hypocritical. Either ban it all, including legal drugs like alcohol, or legalize it all.

Simple fact is that you cannot legislate morality. Using laws like drug laws and gun control laws (both sharing a common racists origin) or “morality” laws (like blue laws and prostitution laws) based upon religious objections are quaint notions that are causing much more harm than good.

The sad fact is that we seem headed towards more and more of a nanny state.

Abuse of anything will happen as long as it is kept in the dark.
kaneda
Capracus. The everyday products in that list are of use. Almost any product in society can be abused in some way. If we got rid of everything which could be abused, there would be nothing left. However drugs soft and hard have no good use and are only there for abuse, so no comparison.
kaneda
Corvidae. Hemp as in rope. I don't think there are official statistics on hemp as in marijuana cultivation in the world?


The Iraq people had a life before the ILLEGAL American and British INVASION of their country. Now hundreds of thousands are dead, many without jobs or the services (electricity, etc) and most live in fear. I think Al Qaeda should send a thank you note to cretins Bush and his poodle, Blair for doing their work for them.


Oil seed rape, etc is good biofuel and 100% legal. Trees are an endlessly renewable resource and ties up CO2, so hemp? What for?


Since when has America started caring about the future of the world?
kaneda
xtrmn8r. Cheer up. In another reality, you are on the Physorg site there saying that nicotine should be legalised as it isn't as bad as marijuana which is legal. laugh.gif
Capracus
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 13 2007, 04:56 PM)
Capracus. The everyday products in that list are of use. Almost any product in society can be abused in some way. If we got rid of everything which could be abused, there would be nothing left. However drugs soft and hard have no good use and are only there for abuse, so no comparison.

Yes, almost any product in society can be abused, that's why we try to teach members of our society to act wisely. Those who fail to learn the lessons pay the price.

All drugs have beneficial qualities, and should only be used responsibly.
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 13 2007, 05:07 PM)
Corvidae. Hemp as in rope. I don't think there are official statistics on hemp as in marijuana cultivation in the world?

Oil seed rape, etc is good biofuel and 100% legal. Trees are an endlessly renewable resource and ties up CO2, so hemp? What for?

Oil seed rape? I'll take that as a typo...or a weird fetish that I'll chose not to ask about.

All plants lock up co2, and release most of it during decomposition. When given the choice between trees and hemp, the question is which one works better? You can get 300% more lumber per acre from hemp than trees. That's 300% more co2 out of the air based simply on biomass. Hemp can be harvested up to 3 times a year easily in most soils. Trees take a decade for pine, MUCH longer for harder woods. Hemp grows in places where food crops won't, and it's resistant to most parasites. No chemicals to spray, no fertilizers needed. It grows faster and with less help than corn in places corn just flat out would not grow.

If we could grow sugarcane across the US it wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is we're stuck with sugar beats and corn. Given that hemp grows faster than either of those and provides better building materials than trees, it's a far better choice. (Hemp based particle boards are harder to burn)
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 13 2007, 05:56 PM)
However drugs soft and hard have no good use and are only there for abuse, so no comparison.

Amphetamine sulphate is perscribed to many children with ADD, particularly in the US. It goes by the name of Adderall. A drug whose name I forget (methyl something) whose effects are likened, by coke users, to cocaine is also perscribed for ADD, it's ritalin. Morphine is perscribed in most of the Western world for pain medication. Similarly for most other opiates and opiods, even heroin! The UK is one of the few places in the world where you can get heroin on perscription if you've special circumstances. LSD was used extensively throughout the 60s by therapists to help post traumatic stress suffers come to terms with their issues. Even the government admits it's non-addictive.

There are few psychoactive chemicals which don't have medicinal purposes and in the cases of many naturally occuring chemicals, that's precisely what the first instances of use by humans was for.

Yes, many of such things have great potential for abuse, but to say "It's an illegal drug, therefore useless" is incorrect. Infact, the scheduling system used in the US for instance makes the distinction between Schedule 1, which has no medical use, and Schedule 2, which has medical use. Obviously there's variation between what the US deems medically viable (heroin is not deemed such but the UK says otherwise) but given pretty much all 'less illegal' drugs than Schedule 1 have well known medical uses, your claim is clearly an exageration.
adoucette
My wife's ongoing cancer treatment has given me a different perspective on the medicinal use of marijuana.

As I understand it, the major reason people use it is to suppress nausea.

My wife's chemo induced nausea so she was prescribed Kytril to combat it.

It worked.

Well somewhat, in that she was still nauseaus but she didn't vomit. Still its a very uncomfortable feeling and DIRECTLY affects quality of life. We were lucky in that we could adjust her chemo schedule so she took the chemo at night along with the Kytril and so we minimized the discomfort to just the morning hours.

Others apparently don't have that option.

Now the kicker. Kytril cost a lot, nearly $50 a pill, and use is one or two pills per day.

On the cancer board I now frequent others complain that Kytril doesn't work nearly as well as marijuana, but their insurance will only help with the cost of Kytril.

Arthur
PuckSR
QUOTE
A drug whose name I forget (methyl something) whose effects are likened, by coke users, to cocaine is also perscribed for ADD, it's ritalin.

Not by cocaine users.....
The drug is similar enough that doctors consider them parallel drugs for research purposes...
i.e. You have a bad reaction to mixing ritalin and product X....you will have a bad reaction mixing cocaine and product X
xtrmn8r
kaneda 6/14/07 05:07 PM

QUOTE
Oil seed rape, etc is good biofuel and 100% legal. Trees are an endlessly renewable resource and ties up CO2, so hemp? What for?


Posted 6/13/07 at 5:13 PM

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Oil seed rape, etc is good biofuel and 100% legal. Trees are an endlessly renewable resource and ties up CO2, so hemp? What for?


Posted 6/13/07 at 5:13 PM

xtrmn8r. Cheer up. In another reality, you are on the Physorg site there saying that nicotine should be legalised as it isn't as bad as marijuana which is legal.


First quote, finally a relevant argument to the subject, well sort of. Yes, there are other sources besides hemp for fuel. As for trees, the mere mention of cutting a tree in the states raises the ire of environmentalists everywhere. Hemp would soothe the savage soul..so to speak.

Second quote, there is empirical evidence that nicotine kills,(it was used as a pesticide for years), there is no evidence that hemp has ever killed anyone!
soundhertz
Kaneda, you can believe what you want, but I think your views are emotionally driven, not logically so. The simple facts of cannabis, it's properties, the pureness of it's oil, it's biomass - it's all there to research - would not lead a neutral unbiased reviewer to your conclusions. There's been a lot of erroneous research that is being corrected by new and more thorough data. It's a testament to fearful status-quo traditional thought that cannabis is still on Schedule 1. The cotton and petroleum industries are doing just fine. Gov't still thinks there's more money in it's illegality than it's legality. As soon as they understand this isn't necessarily so...the removal of it from S.1 will be the bellwether. But don't hold your breath, unless...
kaneda
soundhertz. You are possibly right though there are a range of documented ill effects from marijuana. Ask a smoker who stands a 1 in 2 chance of their habit killing them about tobacco and they will offer up various excuses. Ask someone who has had too much to drink who is getting into his car and he will assure you that the drink won't affect his driving. People who take drugs are not the best people to ask about them.


There are organisations working to get hemp accepted in America but it will be an uphill struggle in a country almost ruled by the church and other busybodies.
GeneSplicer
QUOTE
soundhertz. You are possibly right though there are a range of documented ill effects from marijuana. Ask a smoker who stands a 1 in 2 chance of their habit killing them about tobacco and they will offer up various excuses. Ask someone who has had too much to drink who is getting into his car and he will assure you that the drink won't affect his driving. People who take drugs are not the best people to ask about them.


So are you still trying to claim that those who have been arguing for the use of hemp on this forum are all potheads?

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
soundhertz. You are possibly right though there are a range of documented ill effects from marijuana. Ask a smoker who stands a 1 in 2 chance of their habit killing them about tobacco and they will offer up various excuses. Ask someone who has had too much to drink who is getting into his car and he will assure you that the drink won't affect his driving. People who take drugs are not the best people to ask about them.


So are you still trying to claim that those who have been arguing for the use of hemp on this forum are all potheads?


There are organisations working to get hemp accepted in America but it will be an uphill struggle in a country almost ruled by the church and other busybodies.


As opposed to someone who is quoting an outdated film filled with baseless propaganda?

You claimed that use of marijuana caused insanity. Still not seeing anything to back up that claim.
kaneda
xtrmn8r. Until recently, people who died from smoking cigarettes were listed on their death certificates of dying from a number of other things. They smoked but many died essentially because their heart stopped, etc, so the cause of death. It is the same with marijuana.


A 2002 report by the British Lung Foundation estimated that smoking just 3-4 cannabis cigarettes a day is equal to smoking 20 tobacco cigarettes a day, so a cause of lung disease and death. Of course various druggies instantly tried to rubbish the report.


QUOTE
Smoking cannabis can cause severe lung damage
The holes in Samantha Wilson’s lungs are getting bigger.
There is no cure for her illness and if it continues to get worse it will eventually kill her.

Samantha is 37 and has emphysema, a progressive condition normally associated with older people who have smoked tobacco regularly throughout their lives.

Samantha’s doctor, Dr Onn Min Kon, a consultant physician of respiratory medicine at St Mary’s Hospital in London, believes her cannabis smoking may be to blame for her condition.



http://www.criticaltimes.com.au/uncategori...-beyond-repair/


The report says "maybe" about her cannabis smoking but how else could her lungs end up in such a state so young?

kaneda
Corvidae. Have you never heard of oil seed rape? Maybe it has a different name in America?

Sounds like hemp grows very well. Can it be controlled? When I lived in Suffolk I had some OSR appear in my garden though surrounded by fields. I estimated the nearest place with OSR in was three miles away. I have seen it spread here along the motorway from fields of it. It too can produce a number of crops a year (the field back of me within not much over a month last year from planting to harvest). Too many crops in one year will deplete the soil.


As I said before, being such a sturdy crop, is it biodegradeable or will the products made end up in land fill sites?
gmilam
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 14 2007, 11:32 AM)
The report says "maybe" about her cannabis smoking but how else could her lungs end up in such a state so young?

Only slightly off-topic:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that inhaling smoke into your lungs is not a good idea. But there are other ways to ingest the drug. Is the problem here the drug, or the method of delivery?
GeneSplicer
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 14 2007, 01:32 PM)
xtrmn8r. Until recently, people who died from smoking cigarettes were listed on their death certificates of dying from a number of other things. They smoked but many died essentially because their heart stopped, etc, so the cause of death. It is the same with marijuana.


A 2002 report by the British Lung Foundation estimated that smoking just 3-4 cannabis cigarettes a day is equal to smoking 20 tobacco cigarettes a day, so a cause of lung disease and death. Of course various druggies instantly tried to rubbish the report.

And this has already been addressed. Go back and read, or in your case ignore, the comment about vaporizers. The claim that you cannot address is that no one has ever died from an overdose by using marijuana. What if the ingested it rather than smoked it? I supposed you have articles to cite where someone died from IBS or a terminal ulcer from the ingestion of marijuana?

You can ignore as many people as you want. It actually makes it easier to illustrate just how baseless and factually incorrect your claims are. Once you are shown to be in error or that you spouted personal opinion as fact, or just lied, you move onto another issue or point.

Still not seeing that supportive evidence to show marijuana causes instantly.
newton
well, the 'druggies' who did the largest study of it's kind, found no link between cancer and dope....


Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
soundhertz
Kaneda, but that is one person. My mother is 83, and has smoked (cigarettes!) for 60+ years, and has no cough, let alone anything else. Meanwhile a family friend died of COPD after smoking for 25 years. Different strokes. Here is some compelling research results of a very well-done study.

http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/2006...-to-lung-cancer

There are sites that will give you the actual report if you desire.

Does this mean we should all turn into potheads? Of course not, but it presents the argument that this plant, because of it's popularity and controversy, has been vilified despite many healing properties. A fellow engineer of mine got lymphatic cancer. He required extensive chemotherapy. He really had a tough time of it. He couldn't eat without vomiting. Nothing his doctor tried worked. Keep in mind this was 20+ years ago. His doctor finally suggested smoking weed (he knew he worked in entertainment), although he informed the man that he would deny this statement if need be, to preserve his license to practice. He suggested this out of his human concern for his patient: the anemia was increasing. My friend hated weed, he never smoked it, he liked beer.

Well, it worked. He began, the first time he smoked it, to eat like a horse. The day his chemo ended, so did the weed. He hated being high, but it was worth it to not vomit. If this is not an example of cannabis being used as a medicine, I don't know what is. It's a shame that such a subversive method had to be employed, for both doctor and patient, who both could have gotten into grave legal danger. It's also a testament to this doctor's knowledge and his obviously overriding concern for his patient's wellbeing. How many other doctors are similarly aware but doomed to silence for fear of losing their profession to a bunch of politicians who know nothing about medicine, but much about agenda?

Just noticed that newton probably posted a similar link.
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 14 2007, 05:41 PM)
Corvidae. Have you never heard of oil seed rape? Maybe it has a different name in America?

Probably a cultural difference due to the word rape. No one would try to publicize a process in America using that word. Rendering, sowing maybe. The other question is oil seed of what? There are a limited number of plants with oily seeds that will grow in most of the US. At least not without massive irrigation/watering.
QUOTE
Sounds like hemp grows very well. Can it be controlled?
...
Too many crops in one year will deplete the soil.


Hemp reproduces using seeds rather than spores. While they are small seeds that are easily carried by flowing water, they don't float in the air like a spore. Also hemp has male/female plants. Pot growers regularly separate them to create larger buds for drug use. Although it's also a very effective way to control the population.

Hemp tends to leave the soil slightly (very slightly) better off than it started due to the roots rotting and the rotted matter being digested. Unlike food crops where pesticides tend to kill off beneficial insects as well as the parasites. At least that's what I've been told about it. The only actual sources I have for soil nutrient data are anecdotal.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Sounds like hemp grows very well. Can it be controlled?
...
Too many crops in one year will deplete the soil.


Hemp reproduces using seeds rather than spores. While they are small seeds that are easily carried by flowing water, they don't float in the air like a spore. Also hemp has male/female plants. Pot growers regularly separate them to create larger buds for drug use. Although it's also a very effective way to control the population.

Hemp tends to leave the soil slightly (very slightly) better off than it started due to the roots rotting and the rotted matter being digested. Unlike food crops where pesticides tend to kill off beneficial insects as well as the parasites. At least that's what I've been told about it. The only actual sources I have for soil nutrient data are anecdotal.

As I said before, being such a sturdy crop, is it biodegradeable or will the products made end up in land fill sites?


It's a plant, it's biodegradable nearly by definition. Bacteria readily consume and convert it to ammonia, nitrite then nitrate just like all other plants. Worms and snails also consume the dead roots, digesting them into fertilizer as well. The only way to stop it from degrading is to either treat it with preservatives (poor choice) or use it's own sap as a curing agent.

Once it's been properly treated the paper lasts longer than wood pulp based paper (The US constitution is written on hemp and has lasted centuries, wood paper from the 1950's is falling apart and barely legible.) It's not just the preservation efforts made for the constitution, other documents from the same time period are in nearly as good of condition. The wood produced is expected to have similar longevity when compared to pine timber. (Oak would last longer, but it's not an issue since oak is now too rare to build a house out of, and would take a century to grow.)

There may be a better plant material out there. If there is, it's not in use or unknown in the US at this time. The only reason for a lack of a hemp industry is due to drug legislation. Legislation that was crafted purely on the power of propaganda and poor judgment. To give you an idea of how good hemp is as an industrial product, the main source of funds for the lobbyists was from the lumber industry. (Of course this was back when we had spare trees too)
gmilam
QUOTE (Corvidae+Jun 14 2007, 01:35 PM)
Probably a cultural difference due to the word rape. No one would try to publicize a process in America using that word. Rendering, sowing maybe. The other question is oil seed of what? There are a limited number of plants with oily seeds that will grow in most of the US. At least not without massive irrigation/watering.

FYI - Rapeseed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed

Canola is one variety.
kaneda
QUOTE (newton+Jun 14 2007, 07:00 PM)
well, the 'druggies' who did the largest study of it's kind, found no link between cancer and dope....

I think it was a flawed study when you consider these two points. As we found out from the tobacco industry, studies can mean whatever people want them to mean :


QUOTE
In addition, Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar.



QUOTE (->
QUOTE
In addition, Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar.



The study was limited to people younger than 60 because those older than that were generally not exposed to marijuana in their youth, when it is most often tried.

kaneda
QUOTE (Corvidae+Jun 14 2007, 08:35 PM)
Once it's been properly treated the paper lasts longer than wood pulp based paper (The US constitution is written on hemp and has lasted centuries, wood paper from the 1950's is falling apart and barely legible.)

Lots of books about that are centuries old. Some even over a millennia old, based on wood pulp paper. UK Comics were printed on cheap paper and some nearly a century old are in excellent condition.
Capracus
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 15 2007, 01:27 PM)
UK Comics were printed on cheap paper and some nearly a century old are in excellent condition.
So that's where all of your information is coming from.
Quatermass
Information is information, unless it has been put through a cannabis blender first.
Corvidae
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 15 2007, 01:27 PM)
Lots of books about that are centuries old. Some even over a millennia old, based on wood pulp paper. UK Comics were printed on cheap paper and some nearly a century old are in excellent condition.

It depends on the process used to create the paper really. Which chemicals were used to bleach and separate the pulp and fibers of the wood. American paper from the 50's to mid 60's or so is crumbly garbage, older paper is in better shape, newer papers we have yet to tell really, but they should last longer.

The difference with hemp (and I think cotton as well) is that it can be treated using it's own boiled sap as the fixing agent. So the paper factory just smells bad, rather than killing everything downstream of it. Regardless of the pulp source, you still need bleaches for paper though. Either that or everyone learns to love brown paper...

As for the Rapeseed oil, it appears it does grow in the US, I have no idea how well though. The information I found on it says that it's a winter crop used for letting fields go fallow for a season. That doesn't seem to indicate it grows anywhere near as fast as hemp, and probably several other plants. Also It's the main source of Canola oil right now. America lives on a deep fried diet. The inflation of the cost of french fries alone might cause a revolt. Or more seriously, most markets are still adjusting to biofuels, pushing another food plant into the mix without serious consideration would be foolhardy. Canola is a base ingredient for thousands of products. Even so, it might still be a viable winter crop if it's able to handle low temperature better than hemp. At least for southern area's.
kaneda
I just quoted the OSR that grew in the field behind me. The bees loved it and after some time there, they sheltered from the very hot sun in the shade of my trees on my path to my mail box. As I entered the shade of the trees, suddenly there was a loud humming sound as who knows how many bees got ready to take flight. I was very glad to see that crop harvested.
GeneSplicer
kaneda,

Still not seeing anything in the way of reliable proof that marijuana use causes insanity. Could it be that you made yet another comment out of your ideology or emotional view rather than from reason and/or fact?

And why the argument against the use of natural, biodegradable and renewable sources of material? Finding any such viable source and its use should be fully investigated. Synthetics are fine but not when a natural alternative that is just as useful and poses far less negatives is available.

If your preferential argument for the use of synthetics is colored by the outdated idea that hemp is synonymous with marijuana and drug use, the I would suggest you study the matter from a rational point of view rather than one based upon the propaganda and racism of decades past.

To the anonymous reader (generic HotMail account) of Physorg who emailed me, yes the name Special-K would be a good name to use for kaneda if the misspelling of names or intentional insults like that were of value. To most posters here, they are not only bereft of value, but are normally a sign of a immature person or that the person posting is a juvenile.

If you were to read back through some of the old posts under kenada’s off-topic Dad1 venting thread, you would find where kaneda is livid over my misspelling of his name by way of just a typo. Besides, there is really no need to stoop to such a level when the facts and rational thought are enough to make him and others (see any of the 9/11 “truthers” threads) fly off into such replies and take such actions.
Gizmo
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 6 2007, 09:46 AM)
GeneSplicer. I do not debate with loons or stalkers.

Same old Kaneda, eh?
GeneSplicer
Oh, it gets much worse. Interesting read.

Link

After Kenada has stated that he does not read the posts of others and myself or debates with us, he then does both and posts more replies and negative feedback of the Kenada standard of accusing his opponents of being actually only two or few people using multiple accounts, that we all live in trailer parks and work at McDonalds.

The recent alteration of his signature is more amusing than normal. At least he changed it from his accusation that AlphaNumeric was actually an admin and gave him negatives due to a debate they had.

After reading his posts for a while now and seeing them falling apart upon investigation and challenge from people knowledgeable in the fields he is debating in, I came to realize that another of his often used claims against others is actually another description of his own actions.

Kenada has stalked people like AlphaNumeric from thread to thread posting off-topic and disruptive comments, then claims others are doing the same to him just by replying to him in a thread. He has also claimed that the people he has debated in the areas of science, physics and such are simple text-book quoters.

After looking at some of the information he posted and finding that exact information online (often in the exact format as he posted), it appeasers that Kenada is nothing more than a text-book quoter and not the deep thinker or knowledgeable person of science he claims to be.
Gizmo
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Jun 22 2007, 11:14 PM)
The recent alteration of his signature is more amusing than normal.

Hell, no. Kaneda's signatures are never amusing. Insulting, perhaps, but not amusing.
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