Is there a path to wisdom?
How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?
In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.
In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”
Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”
For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.
Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?
When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.
I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.
The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?
When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain
coberstakaDutchuncle
QUOTE (coberst+May 7 2009, 08:13 PM)
Is there a path to wisdom?
How can I know what I do not know?
Recognize there is Someone who knows more than you, and sees outside your boundaries, and ask Him.
It requires humility, but it works.
JW
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." - (Prov.9:10)
How can I know what I do not know?
Recognize there is Someone who knows more than you, and sees outside your boundaries, and ask Him.
It requires humility, but it works.
JW
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." - (Prov.9:10)
How kind. But actually I am usually too busy to instruct others in the ways of wisdom. Here's the short course:
1) Don't be arrogant -- the universe doesn't care about your self-opinion, but self-opinion can blind to to your own faults and own errors, and the universe is notorious for punishing error.
2) Study math and logic -- don't just read about them, do them.
3) Study the universe -- physics, biology, and chemistry are vital to improving the human condition.
4) Study humanity -- history, art, language and culture. Parochialism leaves a mind too narrow for wisdom.
5) Don't axiomize your thinking -- Wisdom must be lived, not quoted from a book of sayings.
1) Don't be arrogant -- the universe doesn't care about your self-opinion, but self-opinion can blind to to your own faults and own errors, and the universe is notorious for punishing error.
2) Study math and logic -- don't just read about them, do them.
3) Study the universe -- physics, biology, and chemistry are vital to improving the human condition.
4) Study humanity -- history, art, language and culture. Parochialism leaves a mind too narrow for wisdom.
5) Don't axiomize your thinking -- Wisdom must be lived, not quoted from a book of sayings.
The path of wisdom is not a path that is easy to find and tread upon. Even if one feels/think he is on the right path it maybe a long one.
Wisdom is the knowledge of nature which includes the universe. By obtaining this knowledge we would be able to have a clear understanding of the reason for everything. But here we are with our limited body and mind, so how can we obtain such wisdom with such limitations?
I've read that the only way to obtain this wisdom is to unite with everyone to a state of being one body. Then we would not be perceiving the world through our own perception but the perception of the whole world. And then we would be in sync with nature and able to understand it. Just like a radio, we need to come into sync to the wavelength which we want to receive. Since we are only in tune to our own wavelength (egoistic), we need to learn to change that into the opposite (altruistic).
_
"Kabbalah does not let us live our lives in the dust, but elevates our mind to the height of knowledge." Johannes Reuchlin
Wisdom is the knowledge of nature which includes the universe. By obtaining this knowledge we would be able to have a clear understanding of the reason for everything. But here we are with our limited body and mind, so how can we obtain such wisdom with such limitations?
I've read that the only way to obtain this wisdom is to unite with everyone to a state of being one body. Then we would not be perceiving the world through our own perception but the perception of the whole world. And then we would be in sync with nature and able to understand it. Just like a radio, we need to come into sync to the wavelength which we want to receive. Since we are only in tune to our own wavelength (egoistic), we need to learn to change that into the opposite (altruistic).
_
"Kabbalah does not let us live our lives in the dust, but elevates our mind to the height of knowledge." Johannes Reuchlin
In the summer of 48 my older brother told me that if I wanted to play high school football I had to ‘get ready’. In his terms, ‘getting ready’ meant running to get in condition for the rigors of football practice.
In the spring of 09 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?
Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?
It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.
I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.
Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.
Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.
Questions for consideration:
Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.
What is ‘understanding’?
Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.
Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.
Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!
Is difficulty our duty? I think so.
In the spring of 09 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?
Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?
It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.
I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.
Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.
Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.
Questions for consideration:
Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.
What is ‘understanding’?
Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.
Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.
Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!
Is difficulty our duty? I think so.
QUOTE (Just Wonderful+May 8 2009, 03:30 AM)
Recognize there is Someone who knows more than you, and sees outside your boundaries, and ask Him.
It requires humility, but it works.
JW
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." - (Prov.9:10)
If it "works" why does it not work consistently?
Why does the Westboro Baptist Church preach hatred of gays?
Why such varied results?
It requires humility, but it works.
JW
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." - (Prov.9:10)
If it "works" why does it not work consistently?
Why does the Westboro Baptist Church preach hatred of gays?
Why such varied results?
I like the idea, cool!
Wisdom is a gift from God. It is the ability to know right from wrong, good from bad, and the proper value of all material things.
Knowledge does not make you wise. Wisdom allows you to know the value of knowledge.
Wisdom is not a ruler it is a guide and wisdom does not protect you from doing wrong. Wisdom does help you know when you are or have done wrong and how to correct the wrong.
Knowledge does not make you wise. Wisdom allows you to know the value of knowledge.
Wisdom is not a ruler it is a guide and wisdom does not protect you from doing wrong. Wisdom does help you know when you are or have done wrong and how to correct the wrong.
Well, who i consider to be wise may differ from the actual definition, but here's what i think.
- Knowledgeable (probably formally educated)
- Not just book-smarts, but able to connect the dots into reality and apply this knowledge
- Educated on the past, knowing of the present, and can anticipate the future (i'm not talking about having some supernatural visions of the future, but able to but two and two together and figure out what is to come).
How to become wise? Well here's my philosophy
- Ask questions, never assume, but don't be afraid to hypothesize
- Accept constructive criticism without fuss, some people may be @ssholes, but if they are right you've just got to suck it up, and learn what you can from it
- Take the time to be educated on a certain subject, before trying to argue it
- Also take some time out of your day to just think and relax, if you are constantly busy or always have something on your mind, you will have a harder time "connecting the dots" (well that is if your work is non-related to subject you wish to be wise in)
- I do most of my actual learning at home in bed, when i take the time to review what i have learned that day in class, and sort of apply it to real life.
- Knowledgeable (probably formally educated)
- Not just book-smarts, but able to connect the dots into reality and apply this knowledge
- Educated on the past, knowing of the present, and can anticipate the future (i'm not talking about having some supernatural visions of the future, but able to but two and two together and figure out what is to come).
How to become wise? Well here's my philosophy
- Ask questions, never assume, but don't be afraid to hypothesize
- Accept constructive criticism without fuss, some people may be @ssholes, but if they are right you've just got to suck it up, and learn what you can from it
- Take the time to be educated on a certain subject, before trying to argue it
- Also take some time out of your day to just think and relax, if you are constantly busy or always have something on your mind, you will have a harder time "connecting the dots" (well that is if your work is non-related to subject you wish to be wise in)
- I do most of my actual learning at home in bed, when i take the time to review what i have learned that day in class, and sort of apply it to real life.
QUOTE (Fior+May 28 2009, 11:33 PM)
Wisdom comes from experience.
While i agree on experience, the experienced are not necessarily always wise. I believe he/she who repeats related tasks is not gaining wisdom, until they analyze their actions, ask why, and are enlightened as to the reasoning and other sciences behind their actions.
I think wisdom is an acquirable trait we must strive to achieve. A state of being, in which all is thought out, and understood. A metaphor being chess, do you take his pawn, or do you leave it and analyze the repercussions of your actions and his/her potential responses, and then decide to take it or not? Do you plan in the present, or do you incorporate the past,present, and future into your decision.
The capability of analytical thought being the line between the experienced wise, and unwise.
Sorry if this doesn't make complete sense, i am trying to think of how to accurately explain what i am thinking...
While i agree on experience, the experienced are not necessarily always wise. I believe he/she who repeats related tasks is not gaining wisdom, until they analyze their actions, ask why, and are enlightened as to the reasoning and other sciences behind their actions.
I think wisdom is an acquirable trait we must strive to achieve. A state of being, in which all is thought out, and understood. A metaphor being chess, do you take his pawn, or do you leave it and analyze the repercussions of your actions and his/her potential responses, and then decide to take it or not? Do you plan in the present, or do you incorporate the past,present, and future into your decision.
The capability of analytical thought being the line between the experienced wise, and unwise.
Sorry if this doesn't make complete sense, i am trying to think of how to accurately explain what i am thinking...
QUOTE (Fior+May 30 2009, 08:42 AM)
Hi!
Just came across this today, and thought how relevant it was to this thread
I am sure Bertrand, if he were still alive, would be happy to hear that I agree with him.
The first step to wisdom is to "know the self" because to know the self is the first step toward conquering fear. Self-actualizing self-learning is the key to "know the self".
Just came across this today, and thought how relevant it was to this thread
I am sure Bertrand, if he were still alive, would be happy to hear that I agree with him.
The first step to wisdom is to "know the self" because to know the self is the first step toward conquering fear. Self-actualizing self-learning is the key to "know the self".
QUOTE (Fior+May 30 2009, 08:42 AM)
Hi!
Just came across this today, and thought how relevant it was to this thread
Have you read Dune?
There is a scene where Paul is being tested to see if he is human or animal.
The scene is based on this concept.
Just came across this today, and thought how relevant it was to this thread
Have you read Dune?
There is a scene where Paul is being tested to see if he is human or animal.
The scene is based on this concept.
Is There A Path To Wisdom?
Sure there is. Experience and learning . . . . if, or to the degree, it takes.
Sure there is. Experience and learning . . . . if, or to the degree, it takes.
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