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landon
there could be a dimension of light and of dark
Bryn Richards
While you're at it, how about a dimension for 'thought', 'sixth-senses' and 'heaven + hell'.

And in regards to particles, how about one for the electron, one for the neutrino, one for each boson, and one for magic to exist.

Yeah, there we go. Totally screwed over the point of dimensions.
Gehn
QUOTE (landon+Aug 22 2007, 01:10 AM)
there could be a dimension of light and of dark

Landon -

When people come up with theories, they are usually trying to provide answers to a question, or give an explanation for something. You are just randomly thinking up ideas and then posting them here. You also seem to think that darkness is a physical substance ("of light and of dark"). Darkness is just the absence of light.

Light is made up of photons, which exist in the same dimensions we exist in. If light existed solely in a higher dimension, then we would not be able to see it.

Still not convinced as to the incorrectness of your idea? Give me some evidence that light has a dimension all to itself, and then I'll take your idea seriously.

It is possible for light to exist in higher dimensions as well (e.g like in string theory, where everything is made up of 11 dimensional strings, including photons), but it could not exist in just one dimension.

- Gehn
SirShanson
Landon one answer:

Why?
yquantum
You would not need to use M-theory necessarily.

Read the middle column of site.

Dealing with the Kaluza-Klein mode.

Just a different perspective on particles not just photons.
You might want to look into the implications of dark matter/energy as well.

http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive_2006...ay06-01-24.html

caio_
yquantum
Nick
Light theory has two flat electromagnetic sine waves in planes at right angles to each other. I say that this is wrong the em waves are not flat but have dimension.


Mitch Raemsch
landon
what do you call space with nothing in it no light or anything
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (landon+Aug 22 2007, 10:24 PM)
what do you call space with nothing in it no light or anything

What do you call a four sided triangle?

It's a contradiction, just as 'empty space' is a contradiction due to quantum fluctuations. There's always light there.
landon
a pyramid

why has light always there?

space should not be called space if it has light in it. Space should be a place made of nothing. Where no light can enter
SirShanson
Why should it not be called space exactly?
landon
light filled area

space should have infinite size and have nothing in it
N O M
Landon. Is this an attempt to drum up more votes?
SirShanson
There is never nothing, where there is nothing there is a hell of a lot of something, space is a vacuum, for the most part at least and as such ends up doing what I mentioned in another post.

QUOTE
Matter gets created all the time wherever there is a vacuum a particle of antimatter and a particle of matter is created by "borrowing" energy from the future, it is then put back though when the two particles collide and return the energy. This happens very rapidly and a lot, its not a rare occasion.


Therefore the majority of the time it does indeed have stuff in it.


p.s. wink.gif for the feedback.
fivedoughnut
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 02:50 AM)
"and have nothing in it."

..... said the mong-boy with regards to his cranium.
landon
nom
nobody cares about the stupid poll

there is no future, there is only now

anti-matter is like planting -1 apples seeds
N O M
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 04:07 PM)
nobody cares about the stupid poll

Yet you've created two threads so far to complain about it tongue.gif
landon
what poll are you talking about
Sicewa
oh really, there is no future? you got proven wrong as soon as you finished typing that sentence. tongue.gif

anyway, all space has something in it because of quantum fluctuations, as was said already. can you not accept that?

on a random side note, why did u respond to that guys question saying a 4 sided triangle is a pyramid? a pyramid is 3 dimensional, a triangle is 2 dimensional tongue.gif so they aren't the same
landon
When someone ask me a queston i'm not thinking 2d
Sicewa
Erm, so?
landon
If light is everywhere in space then space is light

light = space

could light or electicity be what is filling the gap between planets that is holding our
universe together

where there is no electronlight there is nothing how is there not nothing
Sicewa
So now light is space... ok? Have fun with that. Thats like saying "this box is filled with cheese, so the box is cheese."

Also, who said its EVERYWHERE in space?
jeffsaunders
I like to think I can come up with my own crack pot theories.

At least I know they are crackpot when I do this.

But to say light is space because light is in space sure extends the bounds of logic into the realm of magic.

Get Real Landon.

Light travels through space at incredible v. Means it is here then it is gone. It self perpetuates or travels in its very own magnetic/electric field which is incredible enough.

It does not need to be relegated to a dimension as well.

Jeff
Nick
QUOTE (landon+Aug 22 2007, 09:24 PM)
what do you call space with nothing in it no light or anything

Empty landon.
landon
is there a such thing as empty space. with zero wave

zero wave space

it would have no magnetic fields or waves of kind does it exists
LearmSceince
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 23 2007, 05:23 PM)
Empty landon.

It's funny reading that with my "landon filter" active. All his messages are seamlessly removed from the display.

Holler if you want a copy.
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 03:41 AM)
a pyramid

That's not a triangle, it's 4 triangle and a square put together to form a 3d shape.
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 03:41 AM)
why has light always there?
I suggest learning some quantum mechanics, specifically quantum fluctuations
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 03:41 AM)
space should not be called space if it has light in it. Space should be a place made of nothing. Where no light can enter
Space doesn't confirm to your random, ignorant, notions.
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 03:41 AM)
When someone ask me a queston i'm not thinking 2d
Then you're just an idiot because a triangle is, by definition, 2 dimensional so the answer would have to be a 2 dimensional shape. Thinking in multiple dimensions has nothing to do with it. You're just trying to sound clever when you just sound an idiot.
QUOTE (landon+Aug 23 2007, 03:41 AM)
is there a such thing as empty space. with zero wave

zero wave space

it would have no magnetic fields or waves of kind does it exists
No. Any time you measured the space, you'd find disturbances in it, ie particles.
Sicewa
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 23 2007, 07:59 PM)
hat's not a triangle, it's 4 triangle and a square put together to form a 3d shape.
I suggest learning some quantum mechanics, specifically quantum fluctuations
Space doesn't confirm to your random, ignorant, notions.
Then you're just an idiot because a triangle is, by definition, 2 dimensional so the answer would have to be a 2 dimensional shape. Thinking in multiple dimensions has nothing to do with it. You're just trying to sound clever when you just sound an idiot.
No. Any time you measured the space, you'd find disturbances in it, ie particles.

*hi5's alphanumeric*

One thing though... you probably shouldn't tell him to read quantum fluctuations, because he'll read it and use it to come up with more crackpot theories. tongue.gif That is, if he understands it.
NeoNo.1
God Bless You Landon... I'll give you something to think about.
How could light be a dimension unto it's own, if theories concerning the photon indicate that it experiences absolutely no dimensions at all?
NeoNo.1
Nick
QUOTE (NeoNo.1+Aug 24 2007, 08:12 AM)
God Bless You Landon... I'll give you something to think about.
How could light be a dimension unto it's own, if theories concerning the photon indicate that it experiences absolutely no dimensions at all?
NeoNo.1

No it waves in space and time.

Wavelength and frequency. tongue.gif
Nick
QUOTE (landon+Aug 22 2007, 01:10 AM)
there could be a dimension of light and of dark

The brighter the light the darker the shadow by contrast.
landon
why can't a dimension have a dimension of it on and more than itself a sub dimension

nick

your right the brighter the light the darker the shadow
how bright is no light ? does infinite space go the other direction negative infinite space?

negative infinite space
Zarabtul
it would only make sense...
Sicewa
if theres no light than its not bright at all...


and do you have any idea what space is? its the stuff you live in and move through, and type your crazy posts through
landon
i live in air atmosphere there alot of room but no space
AlphaNumeric
Do any of you guys (and possibly girls) even know what a dimension is? How it's defined in mathematics and physics?

For instance, why is a plane 2 dimensional, yet a volume 3 dimensional? Why is time a dimension? Why, therefore, is light not a dimension?
Bryn Richards
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 25 2007, 10:00 PM)
Do any of you guys (and possibly girls) even know what a dimension is? How it's defined in mathematics and physics?

For instance, why is a plane 2 dimensional, yet a volume 3 dimensional? Why is time a dimension? Why, therefore, is light not a dimension?

Point indicates a position in space

A point extended, becomes a:
Line with properties of:
- Length
- Direction
- Position

A line extended, becomes a:
Plane with properties of:
- Length & Width
- Shape
- Surface
- Orientation
- Position

A plane extended, becomes a
Volume with properties of:
- Length, Width & Depth
- Form & Space
- Surface
- Orientation
- Position

cool.gif
Zephir
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 26 2007, 01:00 AM)
Do any of you guys (and possibly girls) even know what a dimension is? How it's defined in mathematics and physics?

In AWT the dimension of space-time is considered as a degree of freedom for energy spreading. I.e. the direction, in which the energy can spread independently to the other directions. For example, at the water surface the waves can spread energy in two mutually independent directions without interference, the third normal direction is the time dimension.

user posted image
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (Bryn Richards+Aug 25 2007, 11:15 PM)
A point extended, becomes a:
Line with properties of:
- Length
- Direction
- Position

That doesn't really answer my question though. A line is 1 dimensional, yet you list three properties. Why is it 1 dimensional and not 3?
QUOTE (Bryn Richards+Aug 25 2007, 11:15 PM)
Plane with properties of:
- Length & Width
- Shape
- Surface
- Orientation
- Position
Again, you list 5 properties, so why is it 2 dimensional? I would also point out that orientation is not a property all surfaces have. For instance a Mobius strip does not have an orientation, despite being a 2d surface.

Given an object or system, how would you work out it's dimensionality? Working out wether it's orientatable or not doesn't tell you anything about it's dimensionality in general since there exist both orientable and unorientable n dimensional objects for all n>0.
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 25 2007, 11:15 PM)
In AWT the dimension of space-time is considered as a degree of freedom for energy spreading. I.e. the direction, in which the energy can spread independently to other directions. For example, at the water surface the waves can spread energy in two mutually independent directions without interference, the third normal direction is the time dimension.
Amazingly, and shamefully for Bryn, Zephir is the closest, though his style of sentence implies that such a description is somehow unique to or the result of AWT. It's not, but it's the rough definition of dimensionality.

In his example of an oscillating surface, you need 2 values to define a point uniquely on the surface (you can use 3 but 1 of them would be redundant) and you need a time coordinate to define the position of that point in terms of height.

In other words the surface point X would be expressed as X = (x,y,z[x,y,t]).

Since x,y and t are neede to describe a point on the surface properly, the system is 3 dimensional (often writen as 2+1).

Come on now Bryn, if Zephir's managing to parrot something more relevent than you you know you're in trouble. Might I suggest understanding rather than parroting? It does help a lot.
Zephir
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 26 2007, 01:31 AM)
though his style of sentence implies that such a description is somehow unique to or the result of AWT

In AWT the dimension concept has no sense, if it cannot be distinguished by inertial mass/energy spreading. In math the requirement of inertia has no meaning, so it can postulate the vector spaces of whatever dimensionality.

Can you explain, why the dimensions are denoting the mutually perpendicular directions? If yes, you can say, the AWT approach is unique.
If not, then it's just you, who is parroting the textbooks without deeper understanding of the subject... wink.gif
Bryn Richards
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 25 2007, 10:31 PM)
A line is 1 dimensional, yet you list three properties. Why is it 1 dimensional and not 3?

Again, you list 5 properties, so why is it 2 dimensional? I would also point out that orientation is not a property all surfaces have. For instance a Mobius strip does not have an orientation, despite being a 2d surface.

What I gave, was a full list which featured all the properties for the listed dimensions, within a space. If you wanted to envision the dimensions 'not' in a space, but as space itself; then you would remove some properties from each dimension in my list.

ie. A line has - Length, Direction & Position ..... when in a space. However, if you have a line 'not' in a space, then direction and position do not apply.

I thought that this would be self-explanatory, but I guess I had to explain that to you.
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 25 2007, 11:41 PM)
In math the requirement of inertia has no meaning, so it can postulate the vector spaces of whatever dimensionality.
Not if it's trying to describe a specific system. Describing the solar system would require a 4 dimensional physical space since you need 3 spacial dimensions and a time dimension. Inertia has nothing to do with it.

You're making grand claims about a topic you don't know about, basing your claims on ignorance. You never have done linear algebra have you? Vector calculus?
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 25 2007, 11:41 PM)
Can you explain, why the dimensions are denoting the mutually perpendicular directions? If yes, you can say, the AWT approach is unique.
If not, then it's just you, who is parroting the textbooks without deeper understanding of the subject...

Orthogonal directions are usually the most computationally convenient. For instance, it's convenient to decompose motion and forces into horizontal and vertical when dealing with objects moving through the air or on slopes. This is not a requirement but in many systems non-orthogonal bases result in much more complicated equations of motion.

For instance, in spherical coordinates, the Einstein Field Equations for a black hole system are simple. In cartesian coordinates they are all coupled together and fantastically complicated, despite giving the same system in the end.

In special relativity, when two observers in relative motion compare their notion of axes, they will see the other one is not working with orthogonal basis vectors, even if they claim to be (ie they see it from their own perspective). This is due to time and length alterations due to motion.
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 25 2007, 11:41 PM)
I thought that this would be self-explanatory, but I guess I had to explain that to you.
You listed properties without explaination. The list did not actually address the question I'd asked. I could see the answers in there, it was not obvious you could.

Given the posts in this thread, it's obvious numerous posters don't understand what a dimension is or how to compute the dimensions of a thing or system and your reply didn't show if you fell into that group or not. Anyone can copy and paste from websites. Look at Zephir.
truth
Dear Sir,

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www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/physik_astronomie/bericht-38639.html
www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch/041001quasar-galaxy.htm

Please, give me your opinion, and your help. Best Regards,

Pasquale Galianni
-Studente di Fisica Università di Lecce Received on Fri Jan 14 2005 - 04:13:17 PST
77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777

Big Bang Theory Thrashed
2006-12-16, Empire Media
Fulton, NY: a mere two months after his debut paper, "An Alternative View of the Universe", Bryan Belrad, 26, has published two more works; Titled "The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation" and "Redshift and Spatial Expansion".

Bookish-sounding perhaps, but quite literally world-shaking.

The first paper, which was made public in October, 2006, unvieled a new Theory of how the universe might exist - the first to seriously challenge the Big Bang since the 1960’s.

In papers 2 and 3, Belrad gets down to the nitty-gritty: in "Cosmic Microwave", he demonstrates how the ‘afterglow of creation’ is really nothing more than, frankly, hot air. In "Redshift", he presents evidence that scientifically rules out the entire premise of an expanding universe. Both also present evidence and predictions in support of his own Theory, The Eternal Universe Model.

And all of this was done while working THREE jobs. None of them in Astronomy or Physics.

Working on science during lunch breaks, and constanly pondering the mysteries of the cosmos while caring for three children at home, he describes himself as "the most tired man on the planet."

Up next: Anti-Matter. "I strongly suspect there is a relationship between matter, anti-matter, and light that goes deeper than we know."

All three works, to date, are available online at www.BelradUniverse.com

Zephir
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 26 2007, 01:57 AM)
Orthogonal directions are usually the most computationally convenient

LOL, do you really think, our space exhibits the three perpendicular dimensions just because it's "most computationally convenient"? How the energy spreading can know, what's "most convenient" for some mankind? BTW We aren't disputing the coordinate systems, but the dimensionality of space, you just mixing two different aspects together. Even the spherical coordinate system remains threedimensional, because it's using the 3D sphere.
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 26 2007, 12:08 AM)
LOL, do you really think, our space exhibits the three perpendicular dimensions just because it's "most computationally convenient"?  How the energy spreading can know, what's "most convenient" for some mankind?

I never said such things were physical. I made it quite clear (and it would be even more clear to anyone whose ever done physics) that I was talking about our methods of description.

The statement "our space exhibits the three perpendicular dimensions" is incorrect. Dimensions are not about the orientation of a given set of basis vectors but only how many there are.

You are having a go at me because you are ignorant of how vector calculus or linear algebra are used to describe spaces. laugh.gif
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 26 2007, 12:08 AM)
BTW We aren't disputing the coordinate systems, but the dimensionality of space, you just mixing two different aspects together.
It is slightly relevent since dimensionality comes down to the number of linearly independent vectors you need to span a space. The vectors don't have to be perpendicular but they can't be linearly dependant. So spherical, polar, cartesian, you're at liberty to pick which one you prefer or is simplest. That isn't the same as saying nature is like that but obviously some systems lend themselves to particular coordinates. Spherical black holes are easiest described in spherical coordinates. That was what I was referring to but obviously with your complete lack of experience in doing such descriptions you didn't understand.

Have you ever done any linear algebra or vector calculus Zephir? It's pretty important to be able to do Newtonian mechanics. But then you can't do that either. laugh.gif
landon
light has a point where it starts a point were it ends why has it got to be a ray light could travel in maybe a dimension pulse that is spread out aver the whole universe
one after the other we don't really know how light travels except for fast
Sicewa
we know exactly how fast light travels... approximatley 186,282.397 miles per second (im not gonna give the exact number lol - thanks for pointing that our sirshanson)
SirShanson
sorry that just made me grin smile.gif

QUOTE
we know exactly how fast light travels... approximately 186,282.397


Bit contradictory at first sight, but I know what you meant ^^
Zephir
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 26 2007, 02:19 AM)
I was talking about our methods of description

I know, but this is exactly why I didn't asked you for our methods of description, but the physical reasons. My question was, if you can explain, why the dimensions are orthogonal in our space-time?

Why these angles aren't 60º, for example?
landon
bit of a hypocrite are we, there are no hypocrites on physorg

exactly how fast is light ? Is hydrogen inside out the sun?

approximately you don't know
Sicewa
lol landon wt frick
AlphaNumeric
QUOTE (Zephir+Aug 26 2007, 01:55 AM)
Why these angles aren't 60º, for example?

They can be if you wish. Infact, in some crystals, they are and so it's prefered to have basis vectors which are 60 degrees from one another.

'Dimensions' are numbers. You keep referring to basis vectors are dimensions. Angles exist between the vectors, not the dimensions.

You are ignoring (or failing to understanding) the fact I've specifically stated that our method of description (ie choice of basis) is arbitrary. We can pick vectors at 90 degrees to one another or at 1 degree to one another. Provided they aren't parallel or coplanar, that's all (otherwise you have linear dependance).

You're trying to trap me into saying something you think is incorrect but it's only because you are so ignorant of basic vector calculus. Thus demonstrating you can't do any Newtonian mechanics.
Zephir
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Aug 26 2007, 10:57 AM)
You're trying to trap me into saying something you think is incorrect...

Please, don't project your usual motivations into my behavior. I'm really interested about your answer. cool.gif
Of course, I don't care about dimensions angles in crystals, as you probably realized.
freethis
Hm-mm, wink.gif very interesting is this light you are. Light separate dimension, is it. Hm-mm?

I'm leading towrds, (chemical reaction). Initially is it true I am, this is why I see you, it is.. ohmy.gif

Note I have , but why you ask young Anakin? Still a toddler, you are, but of such an ancient Jedi prophecy!

The force still remains in you, it does.... laugh.gif
Nick
Light waves are thought to be sine waves in planes at right angles. But how could they be without dimension. If they are flat they are without dimension.

I say they have dimension and that Maxwell didn't know.
landon
a light wave comes from what ever is being burnt up in the top of our atmosphere.
hydrogen is usually the first thing it hits.

A sun wave is all radiation light is this radiation filtered by hydrogen that we are seeing.

you people know i right
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