Is freedom a possibility?
All thought is 95% (accuracy +/- 3%) unconscious thought.
The mind is embodied.
The ego says, Halt, Hold it.
The container is one of the primary schemas in which we think.
If you put it all together its spells:
• Human ideas are conditioned by deep psychological and social forces.
• We can operate freely but our horizons are limited.
• To facilitate free action we must recognize these horizons and these forces.
• Our horizons are determined by the historical reality into which we are born.
• Knowledge of our horizons and forces marks a beginning of free action and an ideal marks the telos of our action.
• Democracy is a suitable ideal as our telos.
You really need to define freedom here. One could be in the sense of democracy, or other other in terms of 'free will' as people like to call it.
It is impossible to rid yourself of your own unconscious thoughts, they are what make you and me. Without that, the word or the concept of freedom as represented in your brain does not exist.
It is impossible to rid yourself of your own unconscious thoughts, they are what make you and me. Without that, the word or the concept of freedom as represented in your brain does not exist.
QUOTE (coberst+May 27 2007, 03:42 AM)
Is freedom a possibility?
All thought is 95% (accuracy +/- 3%) unconscious thought.
The mind is embodied.
The ego says, Halt, Hold it.
The container is one of the primary schemas in which we think.
If you put it all together its spells:
• Human ideas are conditioned by deep psychological and social forces.
• We can operate freely but our horizons are limited.
• To facilitate free action we must recognize these horizons and these forces.
• Our horizons are determined by the historical reality into which we are born.
• Knowledge of our horizons and forces marks a beginning of free action and an ideal marks the telos of our action.
• Democracy is a suitable ideal as our telos.
unconscious?
you mean like plant mind -vs- animal mind?
conscious? aware?
where did you get your stats? what do you mean 95%? 95% of the waves? The strength of frequency is 95% of the total output?
so 5% is our mind?
my mind is probably closer to 3%
the mind is embodied.....i hear that statement....there's no proof for any mind at all...
but im with you there buddy, i totally believe that we have a mind....embodied...you mean "stuck inside".....maybe....it does feel like my mind is stuck inside my brain....
but...what if it's not?
what if our brain is a reciever? and the mind is the correct radio station? like you may be 93.1 KH2O and i could be 103.3 KEMC
im just saying that because of all the talk of waves.....light is a wave....thought....every freakin thing is a wave.....so could the mind be one too?
i like how you said the moment that we obtain knowlege of our horizons and forces.....free action begins....
but free within the boundaries?
that's deep....
do tell more...what are the horizons?
what are the forces?
All thought is 95% (accuracy +/- 3%) unconscious thought.
The mind is embodied.
The ego says, Halt, Hold it.
The container is one of the primary schemas in which we think.
If you put it all together its spells:
• Human ideas are conditioned by deep psychological and social forces.
• We can operate freely but our horizons are limited.
• To facilitate free action we must recognize these horizons and these forces.
• Our horizons are determined by the historical reality into which we are born.
• Knowledge of our horizons and forces marks a beginning of free action and an ideal marks the telos of our action.
• Democracy is a suitable ideal as our telos.
unconscious?
you mean like plant mind -vs- animal mind?
conscious? aware?
where did you get your stats? what do you mean 95%? 95% of the waves? The strength of frequency is 95% of the total output?
so 5% is our mind?
my mind is probably closer to 3% the mind is embodied.....i hear that statement....there's no proof for any mind at all...
but im with you there buddy, i totally believe that we have a mind....embodied...you mean "stuck inside".....maybe....it does feel like my mind is stuck inside my brain....
but...what if it's not?
what if our brain is a reciever? and the mind is the correct radio station? like you may be 93.1 KH2O and i could be 103.3 KEMC
im just saying that because of all the talk of waves.....light is a wave....thought....every freakin thing is a wave.....so could the mind be one too?
i like how you said the moment that we obtain knowlege of our horizons and forces.....free action begins....
but free within the boundaries?
that's deep....
do tell more...what are the horizons?
what are the forces?
QUOTE (ImmortalCoil+May 27 2007, 07:16 PM)
You really need to define freedom here. One could be in the sense of democracy, or other other in terms of 'free will' as people like to call it.
It is impossible to rid yourself of your own unconscious thoughts, they are what make you and me. Without that, the word or the concept of freedom as represented in your brain does not exist.
Freedom is self-determination.
We cannot rid our self of our humanness but if we comprehend that humanness we can better deal with it.
It is impossible to rid yourself of your own unconscious thoughts, they are what make you and me. Without that, the word or the concept of freedom as represented in your brain does not exist.
Freedom is self-determination.
We cannot rid our self of our humanness but if we comprehend that humanness we can better deal with it.
Old Woman
In the 1970s a new body of empirical research began to introduce findings that questioned the traditional Anglo-American cognitive paradigm of AI (Artificial Intelligence), i.e. symbol manipulation.
This research indicates that the neurological structures associated with sensorimotor activity are mapped directly to the higher cortical brain structures to form the foundation for subjective conceptualization in the human brain. In other words, our abstract ideas are constructed with copies of sensorimotor neurological structures as a foundation. “It is the rule of thumb among cognitive scientists that unconscious thought is 95 percent of all thought—and that may be a serious underestimate.”
Categorization, the first level of abstraction from “Reality” is our first level of conceptualization and thus of knowing. Seeing is a process that includes categorization, we see something as an interaction between the seer and what is seen. “Seeing typically involves categorization.”
Our categories are what we consider to be real in the world: tree, rock, animal…Our concepts are what we use to structure our reasoning about these categories. Concepts are neural structures that are the fundamental means by which we reason about categories.
Human categories, the stuff of experience, are reasoned about in many different ways. These differing ways of reasoning, these different conceptualizations, are called prototypes and represent the second level of conceptualization
Typical-case prototype conceptualization modes are “used in drawing inferences about category members in the absence of any special contextual information. Ideal-case prototypes allow us to evaluate category members relative to some conceptual standard…Social stereotypes are used to make snap judgments…Salient exemplars (well-known examples) are used for making probability judgments…Reasoning with prototypes is, indeed, so common that it is inconceivable that we could function for long without them.”
When we conceptualize categories in this fashion we often envision them using spatial metaphors. Spatial relation metaphors form the heart of our ability to perceive, conceive, and to move about in space. We unconsciously form spatial relation contexts for entities: ‘in’, ‘on’, ‘about’, ‘across from’ some other entity are common relationships that make it possible for us to function in our normal manner.
When we perceive a black cat and do not wish to cross its path our imagination conceives container shapes such that we do not penetrate the container space occupied by the cat at some time in its journey. We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space. Such imaginings are not conscious but most of our perception and conception is an automatic unconscious force for functioning in the world.
Our manner of using language to explain experience provides us with an insight into our cognitive structuring process. Perceptual cues are mapped onto cognitive spaces wherein a representation of the experience is structured onto our spatial-relation contour. There is no direct connection between perception and language.
The claim of cognitive science is “that the very properties of concepts are created as a result of the way the brain and the body are structured and the way they function in interpersonal relations and in the physical world.”
Quotes from “Philosophy in the Flesh” by Lakoff
In the 1970s a new body of empirical research began to introduce findings that questioned the traditional Anglo-American cognitive paradigm of AI (Artificial Intelligence), i.e. symbol manipulation.
This research indicates that the neurological structures associated with sensorimotor activity are mapped directly to the higher cortical brain structures to form the foundation for subjective conceptualization in the human brain. In other words, our abstract ideas are constructed with copies of sensorimotor neurological structures as a foundation. “It is the rule of thumb among cognitive scientists that unconscious thought is 95 percent of all thought—and that may be a serious underestimate.”
Categorization, the first level of abstraction from “Reality” is our first level of conceptualization and thus of knowing. Seeing is a process that includes categorization, we see something as an interaction between the seer and what is seen. “Seeing typically involves categorization.”
Our categories are what we consider to be real in the world: tree, rock, animal…Our concepts are what we use to structure our reasoning about these categories. Concepts are neural structures that are the fundamental means by which we reason about categories.
Human categories, the stuff of experience, are reasoned about in many different ways. These differing ways of reasoning, these different conceptualizations, are called prototypes and represent the second level of conceptualization
Typical-case prototype conceptualization modes are “used in drawing inferences about category members in the absence of any special contextual information. Ideal-case prototypes allow us to evaluate category members relative to some conceptual standard…Social stereotypes are used to make snap judgments…Salient exemplars (well-known examples) are used for making probability judgments…Reasoning with prototypes is, indeed, so common that it is inconceivable that we could function for long without them.”
When we conceptualize categories in this fashion we often envision them using spatial metaphors. Spatial relation metaphors form the heart of our ability to perceive, conceive, and to move about in space. We unconsciously form spatial relation contexts for entities: ‘in’, ‘on’, ‘about’, ‘across from’ some other entity are common relationships that make it possible for us to function in our normal manner.
When we perceive a black cat and do not wish to cross its path our imagination conceives container shapes such that we do not penetrate the container space occupied by the cat at some time in its journey. We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space. Such imaginings are not conscious but most of our perception and conception is an automatic unconscious force for functioning in the world.
Our manner of using language to explain experience provides us with an insight into our cognitive structuring process. Perceptual cues are mapped onto cognitive spaces wherein a representation of the experience is structured onto our spatial-relation contour. There is no direct connection between perception and language.
The claim of cognitive science is “that the very properties of concepts are created as a result of the way the brain and the body are structured and the way they function in interpersonal relations and in the physical world.”
Quotes from “Philosophy in the Flesh” by Lakoff
QUOTE (coberst+May 27 2007, 01:51 PM)
Old Woman
In the 1970s a new body of empirical research began to introduce findings that questioned the traditional Anglo-American cognitive paradigm of AI (Artificial Intelligence), i.e. symbol manipulation.
This research indicates that the neurological structures associated with sensorimotor activity are mapped directly to the higher cortical brain structures to form the foundation for subjective conceptualization in the human brain. In other words, our abstract ideas are constructed with copies of sensorimotor neurological structures as a foundation. “It is the rule of thumb among cognitive scientists that unconscious thought is 95 percent of all thought—and that may be a serious underestimate.”
Categorization, the first level of abstraction from “Reality” is our first level of conceptualization and thus of knowing. Seeing is a process that includes categorization, we see something as an interaction between the seer and what is seen. “Seeing typically involves categorization.”
Our categories are what we consider to be real in the world: tree, rock, animal…Our concepts are what we use to structure our reasoning about these categories. Concepts are neural structures that are the fundamental means by which we reason about categories.
Human categories, the stuff of experience, are reasoned about in many different ways. These differing ways of reasoning, these different conceptualizations, are called prototypes and represent the second level of conceptualization
Typical-case prototype conceptualization modes are “used in drawing inferences about category members in the absence of any special contextual information. Ideal-case prototypes allow us to evaluate category members relative to some conceptual standard…Social stereotypes are used to make snap judgments…Salient exemplars (well-known examples) are used for making probability judgments…Reasoning with prototypes is, indeed, so common that it is inconceivable that we could function for long without them.”
When we conceptualize categories in this fashion we often envision them using spatial metaphors. Spatial relation metaphors form the heart of our ability to perceive, conceive, and to move about in space. We unconsciously form spatial relation contexts for entities: ‘in’, ‘on’, ‘about’, ‘across from’ some other entity are common relationships that make it possible for us to function in our normal manner.
When we perceive a black cat and do not wish to cross its path our imagination conceives container shapes such that we do not penetrate the container space occupied by the cat at some time in its journey. We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space. Such imaginings are not conscious but most of our perception and conception is an automatic unconscious force for functioning in the world.
Our manner of using language to explain experience provides us with an insight into our cognitive structuring process. Perceptual cues are mapped onto cognitive spaces wherein a representation of the experience is structured onto our spatial-relation contour. There is no direct connection between perception and language.
The claim of cognitive science is “that the very properties of concepts are created as a result of the way the brain and the body are structured and the way they function in interpersonal relations and in the physical world.”
Quotes from “Philosophy in the Flesh” by Lakoff
(sigh)
pardon me sir...why dost thou useth such fanciful rhetoric?
what does symbol manipulation mean? Language?
the part where you say....in other words......
my brainiac friend, you dont realize how funny that is to me....
neural structures.....brain formations? is that what neural structures mean?
what are neural structures?
about the spatial relation metaphors......metaphors......you mean our represention of locations within the "matrix" or in other words , our map.
may i quote you? "We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space."
so youre saying we function in space...i get that....and then you say the container schema is the means for which we reason about action....
is that to say our perspective is limited to a point? i dont get that...i mean, i get that concept...i think youre right...if that's what youre saying...is that what youre saying?
then from that on, i lose interest honestly....i do like your ideas..i do...i want to absorb more..i respect your power of intellect...but sir...is it too bold or rude of me to ask that you speak simply sir...?
like you said language is not related to perception....but in this case.....
i want to understand your perception, and the language is the obstacle, not the idea.....
( geez! smart people)
In the 1970s a new body of empirical research began to introduce findings that questioned the traditional Anglo-American cognitive paradigm of AI (Artificial Intelligence), i.e. symbol manipulation.
This research indicates that the neurological structures associated with sensorimotor activity are mapped directly to the higher cortical brain structures to form the foundation for subjective conceptualization in the human brain. In other words, our abstract ideas are constructed with copies of sensorimotor neurological structures as a foundation. “It is the rule of thumb among cognitive scientists that unconscious thought is 95 percent of all thought—and that may be a serious underestimate.”
Categorization, the first level of abstraction from “Reality” is our first level of conceptualization and thus of knowing. Seeing is a process that includes categorization, we see something as an interaction between the seer and what is seen. “Seeing typically involves categorization.”
Our categories are what we consider to be real in the world: tree, rock, animal…Our concepts are what we use to structure our reasoning about these categories. Concepts are neural structures that are the fundamental means by which we reason about categories.
Human categories, the stuff of experience, are reasoned about in many different ways. These differing ways of reasoning, these different conceptualizations, are called prototypes and represent the second level of conceptualization
Typical-case prototype conceptualization modes are “used in drawing inferences about category members in the absence of any special contextual information. Ideal-case prototypes allow us to evaluate category members relative to some conceptual standard…Social stereotypes are used to make snap judgments…Salient exemplars (well-known examples) are used for making probability judgments…Reasoning with prototypes is, indeed, so common that it is inconceivable that we could function for long without them.”
When we conceptualize categories in this fashion we often envision them using spatial metaphors. Spatial relation metaphors form the heart of our ability to perceive, conceive, and to move about in space. We unconsciously form spatial relation contexts for entities: ‘in’, ‘on’, ‘about’, ‘across from’ some other entity are common relationships that make it possible for us to function in our normal manner.
When we perceive a black cat and do not wish to cross its path our imagination conceives container shapes such that we do not penetrate the container space occupied by the cat at some time in its journey. We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space. Such imaginings are not conscious but most of our perception and conception is an automatic unconscious force for functioning in the world.
Our manner of using language to explain experience provides us with an insight into our cognitive structuring process. Perceptual cues are mapped onto cognitive spaces wherein a representation of the experience is structured onto our spatial-relation contour. There is no direct connection between perception and language.
The claim of cognitive science is “that the very properties of concepts are created as a result of the way the brain and the body are structured and the way they function in interpersonal relations and in the physical world.”
Quotes from “Philosophy in the Flesh” by Lakoff
(sigh)
pardon me sir...why dost thou useth such fanciful rhetoric?
what does symbol manipulation mean? Language?
the part where you say....in other words......
my brainiac friend, you dont realize how funny that is to me....neural structures.....brain formations? is that what neural structures mean?
what are neural structures?
about the spatial relation metaphors......metaphors......you mean our represention of locations within the "matrix" or in other words , our map.
may i quote you? "We function in space and the container schema is a normal means we have for reasoning about action in space."
so youre saying we function in space...i get that....and then you say the container schema is the means for which we reason about action....
is that to say our perspective is limited to a point? i dont get that...i mean, i get that concept...i think youre right...if that's what youre saying...is that what youre saying?
then from that on, i lose interest honestly....i do like your ideas..i do...i want to absorb more..i respect your power of intellect...but sir...is it too bold or rude of me to ask that you speak simply sir...?
like you said language is not related to perception....but in this case.....
i want to understand your perception, and the language is the obstacle, not the idea.....
(
geez! smart people)
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