Taking guesstimates on how long it will be before George W and crew initiate the draft and begin sending troops against North Korea?
How long will it be before we find out whether or not North Korea sold some warheads to out terrorist buddies?
Do you think NK actually set off a nuke?
Arthur
Arthur
I find it rather pathetic and totally hypocritical for everyone, and I mean everyone, to be going after North Korea for testing a nuclear weapon.
The U.S. tested them for years, so did the Soviet Union, so did China, so did France, so did Britain, so did India, so did Pakistan and so did Israel by all accounts.
Its like a back street bully who carries a gun and has had it his way for years being upset when the new kid on the block shows up with a gun and the bully calling it AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!
NF
The U.S. tested them for years, so did the Soviet Union, so did China, so did France, so did Britain, so did India, so did Pakistan and so did Israel by all accounts.
Its like a back street bully who carries a gun and has had it his way for years being upset when the new kid on the block shows up with a gun and the bully calling it AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!
NF
We aren't likely going to invade NK. We've screwed the pooch in the ME, and we haven't the will or the means to invade NK. Besides having a huge, well trained army, and possibly nuclear weapons, they set a few miles from the hub of SK which is a sizable cog in the world's economy. It's not like they can just build new drilling rigs and continue to pump oil out of the ground.
QUOTE (NEU-FONZE+Oct 9 2006, 05:57 PM)
I find it rather pathetic and totally hypocritical for everyone, and I mean everyone, to be going after North Korea for testing a nuclear weapon.
The U.S. tested them for years, so did the Soviet Union, so did China, so did France, so did Britain, so did India, so did Pakistan and so did Israel by all accounts.
Its like a back street bully who carries a gun and has had it his way for years being upset when the new kid on the block shows up with a gun and the bully calling it AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!
NF
I agree. of course the flip side of that is what happens if they start selling them on the black market if we start imposing sanctions? NY going up in a flash comes to mind.
MM
The U.S. tested them for years, so did the Soviet Union, so did China, so did France, so did Britain, so did India, so did Pakistan and so did Israel by all accounts.
Its like a back street bully who carries a gun and has had it his way for years being upset when the new kid on the block shows up with a gun and the bully calling it AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!
NF
I agree. of course the flip side of that is what happens if they start selling them on the black market if we start imposing sanctions? NY going up in a flash comes to mind.
MM
QUOTE (adoucette+Oct 9 2006, 05:05 PM)
Do you think NK actually set off a nuke?
Arthur
I think the better question would be...
Can you think of a better way to deflect problems from Iraq and the Middle East?
Answer: start a NEW bigger and better shooting match with the world behind you..... Including the only support NK ever had... China.
Did they set off a nuke? Guess we will find out shortly... If they didn't then they loaded a bu&*load of TNT into those coal mines.
Hee hee
MM
Arthur
I think the better question would be...
Can you think of a better way to deflect problems from Iraq and the Middle East?
Answer: start a NEW bigger and better shooting match with the world behind you..... Including the only support NK ever had... China.
Did they set off a nuke? Guess we will find out shortly... If they didn't then they loaded a bu&*load of TNT into those coal mines.
Hee hee
MM
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Oct 9 2006, 02:39 PM)
Did they set off a nuke? Guess we will find out shortly... If they didn't then they loaded a bu&*load of TNT into those coal mines.
QUOTE (adoucette+Oct 10 2006, 12:04 AM)
See:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/ap_on_...g_nuclear_tests
Arthur
Yep, not going to be a quick answer. But here we have a "rogue" state TESTING nukes, whereas with Iraq they THOUGHT they had them...
But here is a scenario. China pulls their support and walks away from NK. (not likely but since these morons have capability of delivering nukes to mainland China, they might reconsider). We do the normal routine of sanctions, etc... either
A. We invade
B. a small nuke goes off in NYC. and the blame falls on NK.
If either of those two happens, the draft gets re-instated so that we can fight both Iraq and NK, and George gets to deflect problems in the mideast to NK.
How's that for a scary scenario?
Remember the days when they thought they could fight a two front war? Guess we might get to see....
MM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061009/ap_on_...g_nuclear_tests
Arthur
Yep, not going to be a quick answer. But here we have a "rogue" state TESTING nukes, whereas with Iraq they THOUGHT they had them...
But here is a scenario. China pulls their support and walks away from NK. (not likely but since these morons have capability of delivering nukes to mainland China, they might reconsider). We do the normal routine of sanctions, etc... either
A. We invade
B. a small nuke goes off in NYC. and the blame falls on NK.
If either of those two happens, the draft gets re-instated so that we can fight both Iraq and NK, and George gets to deflect problems in the mideast to NK.
How's that for a scary scenario?
Remember the days when they thought they could fight a two front war? Guess we might get to see....
MM
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Oct 9 2006, 09:50 PM)
Yep, not going to be a quick answer. But here we have a "rogue" state TESTING nukes, whereas with Iraq they THOUGHT they had them...
But here is a scenario. China pulls their support and walks away from NK. (not likely but since these morons have capability of delivering nukes to mainland China, they might reconsider). We do the normal routine of sanctions, etc... either
A. We invade
B. a small nuke goes off in NYC. and the blame falls on NK.
If either of those two happens, the draft gets re-instated so that we can fight both Iraq and NK, and George gets to deflect problems in the mideast to NK.
How's that for a scary scenario?
Remember the days when they thought they could fight a two front war? Guess we might get to see....
MM
I don't think anyone ever thought Iraq had nukes.
Iraq WMDs would have been biological or chemical weapons (like in Sarin nerve gas or anthrax).
There was some thought that they might be trying to build centerfuges capable of separating out weapons grade nuclear material but I don't think there was any credible evidence that they were within a decade of being able to build a nuclear weapon.
Even Iran, with greater assets and a nuclear program, is probably 5 or more years away (if the world does nothing to halt them).
I personally don't think Korea pulled it off and will be surprised to find out they did.
The size of the blast indicates either a partial flub or a fake.
Arthur
But here is a scenario. China pulls their support and walks away from NK. (not likely but since these morons have capability of delivering nukes to mainland China, they might reconsider). We do the normal routine of sanctions, etc... either
A. We invade
B. a small nuke goes off in NYC. and the blame falls on NK.
If either of those two happens, the draft gets re-instated so that we can fight both Iraq and NK, and George gets to deflect problems in the mideast to NK.
How's that for a scary scenario?
Remember the days when they thought they could fight a two front war? Guess we might get to see....
MM
I don't think anyone ever thought Iraq had nukes.
Iraq WMDs would have been biological or chemical weapons (like in Sarin nerve gas or anthrax).
There was some thought that they might be trying to build centerfuges capable of separating out weapons grade nuclear material but I don't think there was any credible evidence that they were within a decade of being able to build a nuclear weapon.
Even Iran, with greater assets and a nuclear program, is probably 5 or more years away (if the world does nothing to halt them).
I personally don't think Korea pulled it off and will be surprised to find out they did.
The size of the blast indicates either a partial flub or a fake.
Arthur
QUOTE (adoucette+Oct 10 2006, 02:17 AM)
I don't think anyone ever thought Iraq had nukes.
Iraq WMDs would have been biological or chemical weapons (like in Sarin nerve gas or anthrax).
There was some thought that they might be trying to build centerfuges capable of separating out weapons grade nuclear material but I don't think there was any credible evidence that they were within a decade of being able to build a nuclear weapon.
Even Iran, with greater assets and a nuclear program, is probably 5 or more years away (if the world does nothing to halt them).
I personally don't think Korea pulled it off and will be surprised to find out they did.
The size of the blast indicates either a partial flub or a fake.
Arthur
i believe you are correct.
Presidents speech in 2002.
<iraq>
It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.
as for NK owning nukes, probably just blowing hot air so they can get some attention or more money from the world to "stop" building them. ie blackmail for money. I don't think Iran is going for nukes, personally. I think they are doing exactly what they say they are, building reactors. Building nukes is not an easy process. the detonation sequence is supposed to be pretty darned difficult. However, my point is that we went after a country who possessed no such weapon, had no means to deliver it. This one has the means to deliver to Japan and SK. as well as China and Russia... could make them all very nervous. and all that needs is the US "leading the way!"... Ah well, no need to get worked up at this point, will see what we see!
MM
Iraq WMDs would have been biological or chemical weapons (like in Sarin nerve gas or anthrax).
There was some thought that they might be trying to build centerfuges capable of separating out weapons grade nuclear material but I don't think there was any credible evidence that they were within a decade of being able to build a nuclear weapon.
Even Iran, with greater assets and a nuclear program, is probably 5 or more years away (if the world does nothing to halt them).
I personally don't think Korea pulled it off and will be surprised to find out they did.
The size of the blast indicates either a partial flub or a fake.
Arthur
i believe you are correct.
Presidents speech in 2002.
<iraq>
It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.
as for NK owning nukes, probably just blowing hot air so they can get some attention or more money from the world to "stop" building them. ie blackmail for money. I don't think Iran is going for nukes, personally. I think they are doing exactly what they say they are, building reactors. Building nukes is not an easy process. the detonation sequence is supposed to be pretty darned difficult. However, my point is that we went after a country who possessed no such weapon, had no means to deliver it. This one has the means to deliver to Japan and SK. as well as China and Russia... could make them all very nervous. and all that needs is the US "leading the way!"... Ah well, no need to get worked up at this point, will see what we see!
MM
QUOTE (Masked Marauder+Oct 9 2006, 10:25 PM)
i believe you are correct.
Presidents speech in 2002.
<iraq>
It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.
as for NK owning nukes, probably just blowing hot air so they can get some attention or more money from the world to "stop" building them. ie blackmail for money. I don't think Iran is going for nukes, personally. I think they are doing exactly what they say they are, building reactors. Building nukes is not an easy process. the detonation sequence is supposed to be pretty darned difficult. However, my point is that we went after a country who possessed no such weapon, had no means to deliver it. This one has the means to deliver to Japan and SK. as well as China and Russia... could make them all very nervous. and all that needs is the US "leading the way!"... Ah well, no need to get worked up at this point, will see what we see!
MM
Delivering a nuclear warhead is much more difficult than just launching a missile.
They are HEAVY suckers and a small missile (like the one's that NK has fired successfully) with a heavy nose is very unstable.
Also firing ONE nuke is SUICIDE unless you have a number of them in reserve and a means to deliver them.
NK doesn't
Which makes the blackmail (money for NOT doing something) more likely.
I don't think the West will fall for it.
But they MAY use the fear that NK has instilled in the people of the west to institute regime change.
I suspect a LOT of North Koreans (and South Koreans) would help.
Arthur
Presidents speech in 2002.
<iraq>
It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.
as for NK owning nukes, probably just blowing hot air so they can get some attention or more money from the world to "stop" building them. ie blackmail for money. I don't think Iran is going for nukes, personally. I think they are doing exactly what they say they are, building reactors. Building nukes is not an easy process. the detonation sequence is supposed to be pretty darned difficult. However, my point is that we went after a country who possessed no such weapon, had no means to deliver it. This one has the means to deliver to Japan and SK. as well as China and Russia... could make them all very nervous. and all that needs is the US "leading the way!"... Ah well, no need to get worked up at this point, will see what we see!
MM
Delivering a nuclear warhead is much more difficult than just launching a missile.
They are HEAVY suckers and a small missile (like the one's that NK has fired successfully) with a heavy nose is very unstable.
Also firing ONE nuke is SUICIDE unless you have a number of them in reserve and a means to deliver them.
NK doesn't
Which makes the blackmail (money for NOT doing something) more likely.
I don't think the West will fall for it.
But they MAY use the fear that NK has instilled in the people of the west to institute regime change.
I suspect a LOT of North Koreans (and South Koreans) would help.
Arthur
Agreed. Either way I'm not too concerned. China will handle it. After all they're neighbors, and America's love affair with Wal-Mart and the ilk has it's merits...
Yep, was just about to say that. China would be the ones to roll on NK if it came to it. If bush is still in power and it happens, I would imagine he would want to send waves of troops there to show the dedication to the 'war on terror'
The blast was only 500 tons TNT? Hmm, how big was that blast at the train yard a year or two back?
Nah, it was fake. Smoke and mirrors, with real smoke!
Nah, it was fake. Smoke and mirrors, with real smoke!
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