To add comments or start new threads please go to the full version of: If One Day The Sun Might Fail,....
PhysOrgForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums > Physics > Physics General

bellbottom25
...then what would happen???

would it make the vegetative ecological biological system inoperative, or would it bringforth much more intense microbiological diversions in the earths' ecosystem?
Would it even make the gravitational and physical forces to alter?

---------------------
eric
excaza
Well, if it "failed" it would explode. And Earth would be gone.
bellbottom25
QUOTE (excaza+Jun 17 2008, 03:31 PM)
Well, if it "failed" it would explode.  And Earth would be gone.

No i meant the sun might one day fail as a burnt out star!

--------------
eric
uaafanblog
It would get cold here really fast. Tthe surface would freeze relatively quickly. It might be possible for some prepared and especially resourceful humans to survive for a short time (perhaps a generation or two even) but ultimately they'd likely be doomed unless they had enough of a chance to take what they needed in terms of infrastructure into a deep mine where warmth from the earths core would offset the brutal surface cold. If I knew it was happening I'd snatch a couple of the new "portable" nuclear reactors and head to said mine after stopping at first the light bulb then the seed store. You'd of course need to take topsoil too.

The ocean vent ecosystems (chemo-synthesis based) would likely go on without missing much of a beat. Most other aquatic life (top of the water column - exluding air breathers) would survive for a bit longer than surface life but since the bottom of it's food chain begins with light from the sun it wouldn't get by for long. Mid-column aquatic life would go after that. Bottom dwelling life (which is dependent on death from above) would last the longest (with the exception of the aforementioned volcanic vent ecosystems).
bellbottom25
I think it would be a dead solar system. There might be even an earth's atmospheric collapse. The humans might go around monkeying around for a while. Might be that there would be an increase in microorganisms! Supernaturally it would be a rise in the ghostly world!


--------------
eric
Alcari
Ohh, apocalyptic writing, my favorite.


Well, asuming the gravity is still there, but it's just "dark", so we don't slingshot out of orbit and the tidal forces would keep the core warm.

Eventually, the earth surface would cool down to the cosmic background level of around 3 degrees kelvin. The first cooldown would be awefully fast, but if we've had time to prepare, it could be semi-survivable, for a while.

Remember that the earth's core is a very poor supplier of heat. solar radiation makes up about 99.97% of the total energy balance, with the other 0.02 being geothermal and tidal, so without the sun, earth will freeze awefully fast.

As the light goes out, people panic. Think zombie uprising chaos wink.gif, all sattelite based communication dies, so organising anything will be near impossible

As the heat goes out, the earth cools down. First, the tropical plants and animals go, then the rest of nature, most humans die as the planet cools but some will survive for a while. As the temperature drops further, say -50 celcius, most of the population and all plant and animal life is dead, except those with special equipment. On the plus side, you can now drive your car from Europe to Amerika for the first time in hundreds of thousands of years.

It cools down further, -70, the whole earth is now as cold as the record lowest temperature today, pretty much everything not crazy-prepated is dead, though you could probably survive in deep mines with good insulation and heating.

-120, taking a single breath of air is lethal as your lounges freeze instantly. You practically need a spaceship to survive now. There will be kilometers of ice on the oceans, and they will eventually freeze almost to the bottom.

-180, It starts to rain again, as the oxygen in the air begins to condense, forming pools on top of the frozen water. If your shelter isn't completely airtight, you die.

-220, The atmosphere is gone, it's all liquid now and most of it is starting to freeze. Unless you brought a nuclear reactor down with you, and sealed you shelter with about a kilometer of rock, you die.

As the earth cools further, you're going to have to live your life in a tiny shelter heated by a nuclear reactor, maybe digging out the ocean to get water to electrolyze into air. Going outside is suicide, even with the best protection available.

Of course, I did a bare minimum of math on this, so feel free to correct me on how fast the earth would freeze. My personal guess is a few weeks.
NowIsForever
Much thought has already been given this topic. I Googled "sol's fate" and got, in particular these two links:

http://www.bautforum.com/archive/index.php/t-9166.html

and

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sola...rth_000224.html
Probably much more out there too.

Namaste,

-- Charles
thinker
The Sun will spend a great deal of time expanding (enough to engulf Mercury's and Venus' orbits) before it collapses into a white dwarf, and then it will be and long time before it "fails". During the expansion Earth will be fried before frozen.
bellbottom25
.....and will there be changes in physical forces acting in nature? like gravity? I think there would be drastic changes which should make failure for many of the laws of forces as if they were all incorrect!

I never knew astronomy nor did i happen to visit nearby planets, so doesn't it seem that the information discovered by yester years' scientists were some hoax!!!

------------
eric
Sandra doliak
Hmm, I must say, having a "what if" scenario is quite fun. Not forgetting that it is rather a challenge as well.

It swells my heart to read some of your posts about your opinion of what might happen in the next few hundred years.

However, one cannot really say for sure...

Anyway, here are 2 question for the young and old.

Would there be any great alterations of any type of the earth was 10 CM [or less] closer to the sun?


(this one is a wee bit tricky...)

If I had an infinitely thin foil, that was 5 CM wide, and was infinitely long, and was being wound around (like sticky tape) for an infinite amount of time, what would be the outcome?


PM me the answers or post them here, do as you wish.


Sandra smile.gif
NowIsForever
QUOTE (Sandra doliak+Jun 24 2008, 04:22 AM)
Anyway, here are 2 question for the young and old.

Would there be any great alterations of any type of the earth was 10 CM [or less] closer to the sun?


(this one is a wee bit tricky...)

If I had an infinitely thin foil, that was 5 CM wide, and was infinitely long, and was being wound around (like sticky tape) for an infinite amount of time, what would be the outcome?

IMO, neither of these questions have easy answers; however, the second is much more straight forward and amenable to analysis.

If Earth were 10 cm closer to the sun than it is now there would likely be no significant difference in its evolution for at least millions or billions of years. It is still a possibility that the butterfly effect could affect evolution on a larger time scale, but of course this would be terribly difficult to predict.

Your second question has an infinite number of answers. One would be this. Suppose you considered only a cross section of the foil taken along its length, i.e., perpendicular to its width. One possibility for the locus of points would be the set {(x,y) | x = (cos r)/r, y = (sin r)/r, r not 0}. But x = a (cos r)/r and y = b (cos r)/r would also serve and cos() and sin() are not special either.

Namaste,

-- Charles
Sinister Utopia
QUOTE (Sandra doliak+Jun 24 2008, 09:22 AM)

(this one is a wee bit tricky...)

If I had an infinitely thin foil, that was 5 CM wide, and was infinitely long, and was being wound around (like sticky tape) for an infinite amount of time, what would be the outcome?


PM me the answers or post them here, do as you wish.


Sandra smile.gif

Hi Sandra,

Is the answer, nothing?

(or a very sore wrist) blink.gif
Alcari
QUOTE
If I had an infinitely thin foil, that was 5 CM wide, and was infinitely long, and was being wound around (like sticky tape) for an infinite amount of time, what would be the outcome?


You'd die of boredom.
Alternatively, you'd get sucked into the black created by the infinite mass of the object you're holding.
Alternatively, you'd get the nobel prize for having an infinite ammount of foil that has no mass.

Suspending all other laws of physics:
After infinite time has passed, you'd get a disc with an infite radius. It would take an infinite ammount of time and material to complete another loop around it. Luckily, you have both, so you continue for an infinite ammount of time, which you were allready doing anyway.

In adition, you get a headache figuring out if you're done yet.
midwestern
Nothing would survive any which way you examine the living. rolleyes.gif
Gallimaufry
QUOTE

Nothing would survive any which way you examine the living. 


I just love your positive attitude biggrin.gif
bellbottom25
Hi,
I was playing some days ago a pc game, it was built by russian developers - its name STALKER! In it there is a nuclear aftermath shown perhaps. Might be that such atmospheric changes are simulated by scientists in real world at some distant unidentified locations on earth! There is an EM charged atmosphere, the sky darkens and brightens after small intervals. What do you say?

------------------
eric
midwestern
Thanks Gallimaufry. smile.gif
iseason
ummm

Anyone have any data on the average temperature between here and the next star?
I'm looking for a planet away from the solar winds , but close to the Gass Giants Mall park?

Cheers
Iseason
bellbottom25
I don't know what i was thinking, perhaps when you said that the sun's energy would reach the earths' atmosphere! Then it would make some similar changes!

----------------
eric
PhysOrg scientific forums are totally dedicated to science, physics, and technology. Besides topical forums such as nanotechnology, quantum physics, silicon and III-V technology, applied physics, materials, space and others, you can also join our news and publications discussions. We also provide an off-topic forum category. If you need specific help on a scientific problem or have a question related to physics or technology, visit the PhysOrg Forums. Here you’ll find experts from various fields online every day.
To quit out of "lo-fi" mode and return to the regular forums, please click here.