QUOTE (Wikipedia+)
Stanley Meyer claimed that he ran a dune buggy on water instead of petrol. He replaced the spark plugs with "injectors" to spray a fine mist of water into the engine cylinders, which he claimed were subjected to an electrical resonance. The "fuel cell" would split the water mist into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which would then be combusted back into water vapour in a conventional internal combustion engine to produce net energy. Meyer's claims were never independently verified, and in 1996 he was found guilty of fraud in an Ohio court.[1] He died of an aneurysm in 1998, although conspiracy theories persist in which it is claimed that he was poisoned ...
Charles H. Garrett allegedly demonstrated a water-fuelled car "for several minutes", which was reported on September 8, 1935, in The Dallas Morning News.[12] The car generated hydrogen by electrolysis as can be seen by examining Garrett's patent, issued that same year.[13] This patent includes drawings which show a carburetor similar to an ordinary float-type carburetor but with electrolysis plates in the lower portion, and where the float is used to maintain the level of the water. Garrett's patent fails to identify a new source of energy.
...
In June 2008, Japanese company Genepax unveiled a car which it claims runs on only water and air,[22] and many news outlets dubbed the vehicle a "water-fuel car".[23] The company says it "cannot [reveal] the core part of this invention,” yet,[24] but it has disclosed that the system uses an onboard energy generator (a "membrane electrode assembly") to extract the hydrogen using a "mechanism which is similar to the method in which hydrogen is produced by a reaction of metal hydride and water".[25] The hydrogen is then used to generate energy to run the car. This has led to speculation that the metal hydride is consumed in the process and is the ultimate source of the car's energy, making the car a hydride-fuelled "hydrogen on demand" vehicle, rather than water-fuelled as claimed.[26][27][28] On the company's website the energy source is explained only with the words "Chemical reaction".[29] The science and technology magazine Popular Mechanics has described Genepax's claims as "Rubbish."[30] The vehicle that Genepax demonstrated to the press in 2008 was a REVAi electric car, manufactured in India and sold in the UK as the G-Wiz.
In early 2009, Genepax announced they were closing their website, citing large development costs. ...
[Moderator: The above was taken wholesale from Wikipedia contributors. "Water-fuelled car." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 5 Aug. 2011. ]
Here are the facts. [Moderator: Technically, these are merely your claims and in light of your posting record extremely suspect and typically lacking any basis in repeatable observable phenomena (aka "facts" as science knows them).] Electrolysis alone cannot generate enough energy. [Moderator: Nothing can "generate" energy without violating the first law of thermodynamics and the time invariance of the described fundamental laws of physics -- for which the author provides no support. In fact, electrolysis of water converts electrical energy into the potential chemical energy of hydrogen and oxygen gasses, and from the viewpoint of a strictly electromechanical system the process consumes energy which is no longer available to the electrical circuit. ] Sound or vibration is needed. [Moderator: Of course there is no support for either sound or vibration transcending the fundamental laws of physics when sound and vibration were well-understood even before modern formulations of thermodynamics and the laws of physics were written.] The sound energy is generated by a tube within a tube construction. When electrified, the tubes vibrate producing the missing component. [Moderator: A claim curiously exactly phrased and yet lacking any support.] You could theoretically set up a vibration using flat panels and probably many other configurations. [Moderator: No argument here, but this nowhere claims that the vibration would be useful for any purpose.] Vibration is the key. [Moderator: Key to what, exactly?] That is where the extra energy comes from that people say violate the law of thermodynamics. [Moderator: Citation required. Here's two claims on top of each other and neither one has support. Who has this extra energy? Who has traced it to these vibrations?] The vibration is created as a natural biproduct of the stainless steel being electrified in water. [Moderator: Yes, bubbles rising off a steel plate cause vibration, and in electrolysis there are bubbles, but no detailed energy balance has been measured at odds with thermodynamics.]
So, in a technical sense, a violation could be said to have happened. [Moderator: Who did you violate?] I am a musician and have a digital recording studio. I deal in sound. It is the most powerful energy source that can be modulated. [Moderator: People who run nuclear power plants that power rock concerts would tend to disagree.] Sound can kill. Every element on this planet has a frequency at which it will vibrate. [Moderator: Citation required.] Enough sound energy at the right frequency and you could destroy it. [Moderator: Citation required.] The Japanese did an experiment in the 30's using prisoners. They strapped a man to a giant set of speakers and blew him apart. [Moderator: Citation required. Seriously dude, not even the white-power or Chinese propaganda sites carry this paranoid claim. And your below excerpt from Wikipedia covers U.S. testing.]
Charles H. Garrett allegedly demonstrated a water-fuelled car "for several minutes", which was reported on September 8, 1935, in The Dallas Morning News.[12] The car generated hydrogen by electrolysis as can be seen by examining Garrett's patent, issued that same year.[13] This patent includes drawings which show a carburetor similar to an ordinary float-type carburetor but with electrolysis plates in the lower portion, and where the float is used to maintain the level of the water. Garrett's patent fails to identify a new source of energy.
...
In June 2008, Japanese company Genepax unveiled a car which it claims runs on only water and air,[22] and many news outlets dubbed the vehicle a "water-fuel car".[23] The company says it "cannot [reveal] the core part of this invention,” yet,[24] but it has disclosed that the system uses an onboard energy generator (a "membrane electrode assembly") to extract the hydrogen using a "mechanism which is similar to the method in which hydrogen is produced by a reaction of metal hydride and water".[25] The hydrogen is then used to generate energy to run the car. This has led to speculation that the metal hydride is consumed in the process and is the ultimate source of the car's energy, making the car a hydride-fuelled "hydrogen on demand" vehicle, rather than water-fuelled as claimed.[26][27][28] On the company's website the energy source is explained only with the words "Chemical reaction".[29] The science and technology magazine Popular Mechanics has described Genepax's claims as "Rubbish."[30] The vehicle that Genepax demonstrated to the press in 2008 was a REVAi electric car, manufactured in India and sold in the UK as the G-Wiz.
In early 2009, Genepax announced they were closing their website, citing large development costs. ...
[Moderator: The above was taken wholesale from Wikipedia contributors. "Water-fuelled car." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 5 Aug. 2011. ]
Here are the facts. [Moderator: Technically, these are merely your claims and in light of your posting record extremely suspect and typically lacking any basis in repeatable observable phenomena (aka "facts" as science knows them).] Electrolysis alone cannot generate enough energy. [Moderator: Nothing can "generate" energy without violating the first law of thermodynamics and the time invariance of the described fundamental laws of physics -- for which the author provides no support. In fact, electrolysis of water converts electrical energy into the potential chemical energy of hydrogen and oxygen gasses, and from the viewpoint of a strictly electromechanical system the process consumes energy which is no longer available to the electrical circuit. ] Sound or vibration is needed. [Moderator: Of course there is no support for either sound or vibration transcending the fundamental laws of physics when sound and vibration were well-understood even before modern formulations of thermodynamics and the laws of physics were written.] The sound energy is generated by a tube within a tube construction. When electrified, the tubes vibrate producing the missing component. [Moderator: A claim curiously exactly phrased and yet lacking any support.] You could theoretically set up a vibration using flat panels and probably many other configurations. [Moderator: No argument here, but this nowhere claims that the vibration would be useful for any purpose.] Vibration is the key. [Moderator: Key to what, exactly?] That is where the extra energy comes from that people say violate the law of thermodynamics. [Moderator: Citation required. Here's two claims on top of each other and neither one has support. Who has this extra energy? Who has traced it to these vibrations?] The vibration is created as a natural biproduct of the stainless steel being electrified in water. [Moderator: Yes, bubbles rising off a steel plate cause vibration, and in electrolysis there are bubbles, but no detailed energy balance has been measured at odds with thermodynamics.]
So, in a technical sense, a violation could be said to have happened. [Moderator: Who did you violate?] I am a musician and have a digital recording studio. I deal in sound. It is the most powerful energy source that can be modulated. [Moderator: People who run nuclear power plants that power rock concerts would tend to disagree.] Sound can kill. Every element on this planet has a frequency at which it will vibrate. [Moderator: Citation required.] Enough sound energy at the right frequency and you could destroy it. [Moderator: Citation required.] The Japanese did an experiment in the 30's using prisoners. They strapped a man to a giant set of speakers and blew him apart. [Moderator: Citation required. Seriously dude, not even the white-power or Chinese propaganda sites carry this paranoid claim. And your below excerpt from Wikipedia covers U.S. testing.]
QUOTE (Wikipedia+)
A multi-organization research program[13] involved high intensity audible sound experiments on human subjects. Extra-aural (unrelated to hearing) bioeffects on various internal organs and the central nervous system included auditory shifts, vibrotactile sensitivity change, muscle contraction, cardiovascular function change, central nervous system effects, vestibular (inner ear) effects, and chest wall/lung tissue effects. Researchers found that low frequency sonar exposure could result in significant cavitations, hypothermia, and tissue shearing. Follow-on experiments were not recommended.
Tests performed on mice show the threshold for both lung and liver damage occurs at about 184 dB. Damage increases rapidly as intensity is increased. Noise-induced neurological disturbances in humans exposed to continuous low frequency tones for durations longer than 15 minutes involved development of immediate and long term problems affecting brain tissue. The symptoms resembled those of individuals who had suffered minor head injuries. One theory for a causal mechanism is that the prolonged sound exposure resulted in enough mechanical strain to brain tissue to induce an encephalopathy....
[Moderator: The above was taken wholesale from Wikipedia contributors. "Directed-energy weapon." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 30 Aug. 2011. ]
That's from Wikipedia. [Moderator: Parts of it are, but actually it seems that the research program was more modern than the 1930's and run by the US and the Soviets, not Japan. Just look to what organizations footnote 13 names or the text of the document of footnote 14.]
In summary, hydrogen from water is the most abundant and renewable energy source on the planet. [Moderator: In terms of the potential energy released in fusion, perhaps. In terms of a working medium of photosynthesis, there is a grain of historical truth here but the main energy reservoir has been the reduced carbon. In terms of closed cycles, the author describe a perpetual motion machine of the first kind and is making an unfounded claim completely without support.] Sound is the key to unlocking hydrogen's extra potential. [Moderator: Demonstration of claim required. Citation required so that we may know the source of the authors intelligence. Perhaps fairies whisper it in his ear at night?] The oil industry has known this for quite some time and have spent billions suppressing this information and technology. [Moderator: If true, this claim contradicts the earlier claims of author to know. But we don't need to decide if its true when the author presents no support for his conspiracy claim and not even a sketch of how such technology could be suppressed.] A world without a carbon based economy means total economic collapse of the world's economy. [Moderator: Fascinating. If this last claim is true, suppression of non-carbon energy sources is to be desired. But we have non-carbon energy supplies, so we need not consider it.]
I hope I provided plenty of references. [Moderator: Author admits he's too impaired to count the number of papers and articles he sourced, which is zero, despite wholesale copying from two different unidentified Wikipedia articles.] Most of the information can be researched with a google check. [Moderator: Author admits he presented zero sources.] Every scientific reference neglects to mention sound as a component of hydrogen power [Moderator: Which means that google search will not provide support for this claim and by the excluded middle implies only non-scientific sources make such claims.] which is why they say hydrogen powered cars can't be real. [Moderator: Misstates empirical basis for widely accepted first law of thermodynamics and fundamental physics reasons for its generalizations.] Without sound, you don't have enough energy, I agree.
It's time to wake up.
[Moderator: Suspended 20 days for gross intellectual dishonesty, repetition of claims without elucidation, for failing to state a positive case for how the existing evidence came to be, and for improperly attempting to shift the burden of proof.]
Tests performed on mice show the threshold for both lung and liver damage occurs at about 184 dB. Damage increases rapidly as intensity is increased. Noise-induced neurological disturbances in humans exposed to continuous low frequency tones for durations longer than 15 minutes involved development of immediate and long term problems affecting brain tissue. The symptoms resembled those of individuals who had suffered minor head injuries. One theory for a causal mechanism is that the prolonged sound exposure resulted in enough mechanical strain to brain tissue to induce an encephalopathy....
[Moderator: The above was taken wholesale from Wikipedia contributors. "Directed-energy weapon." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 30 Aug. 2011. ]
That's from Wikipedia. [Moderator: Parts of it are, but actually it seems that the research program was more modern than the 1930's and run by the US and the Soviets, not Japan. Just look to what organizations footnote 13 names or the text of the document of footnote 14.]
In summary, hydrogen from water is the most abundant and renewable energy source on the planet. [Moderator: In terms of the potential energy released in fusion, perhaps. In terms of a working medium of photosynthesis, there is a grain of historical truth here but the main energy reservoir has been the reduced carbon. In terms of closed cycles, the author describe a perpetual motion machine of the first kind and is making an unfounded claim completely without support.] Sound is the key to unlocking hydrogen's extra potential. [Moderator: Demonstration of claim required. Citation required so that we may know the source of the authors intelligence. Perhaps fairies whisper it in his ear at night?] The oil industry has known this for quite some time and have spent billions suppressing this information and technology. [Moderator: If true, this claim contradicts the earlier claims of author to know. But we don't need to decide if its true when the author presents no support for his conspiracy claim and not even a sketch of how such technology could be suppressed.] A world without a carbon based economy means total economic collapse of the world's economy. [Moderator: Fascinating. If this last claim is true, suppression of non-carbon energy sources is to be desired. But we have non-carbon energy supplies, so we need not consider it.]
I hope I provided plenty of references. [Moderator: Author admits he's too impaired to count the number of papers and articles he sourced, which is zero, despite wholesale copying from two different unidentified Wikipedia articles.] Most of the information can be researched with a google check. [Moderator: Author admits he presented zero sources.] Every scientific reference neglects to mention sound as a component of hydrogen power [Moderator: Which means that google search will not provide support for this claim and by the excluded middle implies only non-scientific sources make such claims.] which is why they say hydrogen powered cars can't be real. [Moderator: Misstates empirical basis for widely accepted first law of thermodynamics and fundamental physics reasons for its generalizations.] Without sound, you don't have enough energy, I agree.
It's time to wake up.
[Moderator: Suspended 20 days for gross intellectual dishonesty, repetition of claims without elucidation, for failing to state a positive case for how the existing evidence came to be, and for improperly attempting to shift the burden of proof.]
You are an idiot in every sense of the word.
Electrolysis is a pretty basic function:
Energy + Water = Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat
The opposite is also pretty basic:
Hydrogen + Oxygen + Energy = Heat + Water
The problem is that energy is lost to waste heat during each conversion. The energy spent in equation 1 is greater than the energy gained in equation 2. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from, the point is that you are better off running an electric motor than an electrolyzer.
Electrolysis is a pretty basic function:
Energy + Water = Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat
The opposite is also pretty basic:
Hydrogen + Oxygen + Energy = Heat + Water
The problem is that energy is lost to waste heat during each conversion. The energy spent in equation 1 is greater than the energy gained in equation 2. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from, the point is that you are better off running an electric motor than an electrolyzer.
I hope I provided plenty of references. Most of the information can be researched with a google check. Every scientific reference neglects to mention sound as a component of hydrogen power which is why they say hydrogen powered cars can't be real. Without sound, you don't have enough energy, I agree.
It's time to wake up.
You fail at even the most basic levels of critical thinking. There is no free lunch. The sooner you figure that out, the better.
QUOTE
Here are the facts. Electrolysis alone cannot generate enough energy. Sound or vibration is needed. The sound energy is generated by a tube within a tube construction. When electrified, the tubes vibrate producing the missing component. You could theoretically set up a vibration using flat panels and probably many other configurations. Vibration is the key. That is where the extra energy comes from that people say violate the law of thermodynamics. The vibration is created as a natural biproduct of the stainless steel being electrified in water.
Electrolysis is a pretty basic function:
Energy + Water = Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat
The opposite is also pretty basic:
Hydrogen + Oxygen + Energy = Heat + Water
The problem is that energy is lost to waste heat during each conversion. The energy spent in equation 1 is greater than the energy gained in equation 2. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from, the point is that you are better off running an electric motor than an electrolyzer.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Here are the facts. Electrolysis alone cannot generate enough energy. Sound or vibration is needed. The sound energy is generated by a tube within a tube construction. When electrified, the tubes vibrate producing the missing component. You could theoretically set up a vibration using flat panels and probably many other configurations. Vibration is the key. That is where the extra energy comes from that people say violate the law of thermodynamics. The vibration is created as a natural biproduct of the stainless steel being electrified in water. |
Electrolysis is a pretty basic function:
Energy + Water = Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat
The opposite is also pretty basic:
Hydrogen + Oxygen + Energy = Heat + Water
The problem is that energy is lost to waste heat during each conversion. The energy spent in equation 1 is greater than the energy gained in equation 2. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from, the point is that you are better off running an electric motor than an electrolyzer.
I hope I provided plenty of references. Most of the information can be researched with a google check. Every scientific reference neglects to mention sound as a component of hydrogen power which is why they say hydrogen powered cars can't be real. Without sound, you don't have enough energy, I agree.
It's time to wake up.
You fail at even the most basic levels of critical thinking. There is no free lunch. The sooner you figure that out, the better.
For those who badly want to run a car on hydrogen I suggest they relocate to Jupiter. The downside is you may have to carry your own supply of oxygen. Next, someone will want us to run a car by rhondomagnetism or more practically, snake oil.
Edit.
QUOTE (Capracus+Nov 1 2011, 07:08 AM)
Edit.
Moderator overload! You get to see the stress of being the moderator in this thread!
Moderator overload! You get to see the stress of being the moderator in this thread!
thank you for your message.
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