The term Hydrino needs to be abandoned or redefined. Even using the term "Hydrino like" will cause the author to be indexed under speculation or pseudoscience. I am proposing that all “Hydrino like” atoms are not sub zero state but simply redistributed on the temporal axis. As background Dr Randell Mills, founder of Black Light Power , has pursued a sub zero state of the hydrogen atom for more than a decade. Test reactors of their proprietary catalyst supplied to Rowan University were confirmed in October 2008 to produce far more calories than possible for the given hydrogen impregnation in their reactors. The hydrogen and catalyst are brought up to 200C at which point the reaction produces far more heat than Rowan chemists can account for with standard chemistry. Dr Mills controversial GUT theory however has been staunchly opposed by the physics community and the company has been unable to retain a patent based on his theory. The theory was challenged by A Rathke (May 2005). "A critical analysis of the hydrino model". New Journal of Physics 2005 (7): 127. doi:10.1088/1367-2630/7/1/127 however Rathke's paper was itself challenged by Jan Naudts (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2. " which demonstrated that Rathke had not allowed for relativistic effects. This “relativistic” opportunity was not easily applied to the Mills theorem but on May 8th 2008 Bernard Haisch and Garret Moddel were awarded a patent for a device based on Casimir cavities which also describes an orbital "spinning down" below the ground state but based on stochastic electrodynamics ( description and patent ).
I am simply proposing that Jan Naudts mathematical evidence of a “relativistic” loophole can be applied to the Moddel - Haisch model to form a composite theorem where the Casimir cavities allow the orbital to twist on the temporal axis. The orbital only appears to "fall" because the 4D volume representing the boundary conditions is redistributed on the Time axis such that its profile in normal space shrinks while it gets larger on the time axis. I am proposing this composite Naudts-Moddel- Haisch theory be considered a test bed for extending the theory while investigating hydrino like constructs without the burden of sub zero state arguments.
User posted image: User posted image
In addition to suggesting the above composite Naudts-Moddel- Haisch theory, I would like to propose my own theory to extend said “NMH” theory. I propose that these “temporally Fat” atoms must form a covalent bond while deeply submerged on the temporal axis such that when the boundary reforms while exiting the cavity the new molecule is not free to transition with the boundary because its orbitals are locked one against the other unable to twist back to original orientation. The boundary conditions with the orbitals accumulate until they break the bond exhibiting the signature black light plasma and restoring atoms to monatomic levels. This method forces normally chaotic vacuum fluctuations to organize into boundary conditions that allow their energy to be harvested. The covalent bond becomes our “bucket”.
The math for this theory was already presented by Jan Naudts (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". which at the time had no available theory to which it could be easily applied. That has changed with the Moddel – Haisch SED based theory leveraging exclusion fields inside Casimir cavities. I predict that the covalent “temporally fat” molecule formed inside an exclusion field is capable of reacting with space-time. The boundary conditions that accumulate against the orbitals as the molecule exits the exclusion field have their reactionary forces translated 90 degrees against the vacuum fluctuations on the time axis. These boundary potentials can be harvested as heat energy when the bond is broken such as the Black Light Power reactors tested by Rowan University however there is another as yet untested potential. The accumulated boundary conditions with vacuum fluctuations just prior to the breaking of the covalent bond while the molecule is exiting the exclusion field can be adapted for reactionless thrust. I predict that exotic inertial properties will be discovered when a portable system is tested on a frictionless surface.
QUOTE (froarty+Mar 9 2009, 06:45 PM)
The term Hydrino needs to be abandoned or redefined.
Should be abandoned (as a failed brand name) and redefined as something necessary to the success of a predictive physical model. If you do just the first, you will be found out as non-scientist who wishes to hide in the past and not fact the bitter light of empirical testing. If you do just the latter, then you tie yourself to the mistakes of the past and only bitter confusion can result.
Should be abandoned (as a failed brand name) and redefined as something necessary to the success of a predictive physical model. If you do just the first, you will be found out as non-scientist who wishes to hide in the past and not fact the bitter light of empirical testing. If you do just the latter, then you tie yourself to the mistakes of the past and only bitter confusion can result.
QUOTE (froarty+Mar 9 2009, 06:45 PM)
I am proposing that all “Hydrino like” atoms are not sub zero state but simply redistributed on the temporal axis
Since Mills has empirical evidence , namely, spectroscopic results that correspond to the predicted fractional energy levels, why look for another model??
If I'm not mistaken Mills himself has answered quit succinctly Rathke's objections.
JW
P.S. I think you should 'abandon' the use of "sub zero state" since that is a misnomer. It is a fractional quantum, NOT 'sub zero' energy levels.
Since Mills has empirical evidence , namely, spectroscopic results that correspond to the predicted fractional energy levels, why look for another model??
If I'm not mistaken Mills himself has answered quit succinctly Rathke's objections.
JW
P.S. I think you should 'abandon' the use of "sub zero state" since that is a misnomer. It is a fractional quantum, NOT 'sub zero' energy levels.
QUOTE (Just Wonderful+Mar 16 2009, 02:52 AM)
Since Mills has empirical evidence , namely, spectroscopic results that correspond to the predicted fractional energy levels, why look for another model??
If I'm not mistaken Mills himself has answered quit succinctly Rathke's objections.
JW
P.S. I think you should 'abandon' the use of "sub zero state" since that is a misnomer. It is a fractional quantum, NOT 'sub zero' energy levels.
I think this field is being held back by semantics. The fractional quantum may be the proper term but it is still controversial,.. see time line below.
^ Rathke, Andreas (20 May 2005). "A critical analysis of the hydrino model". http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0505150.
^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.
^ Kunze, H-J (2008). "On the spectroscopic measurements used to support the postulate of states with fractional principal quantum numbers in hydrogen". J Phys D: Appl Phys 41: 108001. doi:10.1088/0022-3727/41/10/108001.
I know Mills is harvesting energy and his math is "reflective" of the empirical data he has gathered but he had to put it in terms consistent with the theory and math he has been using for over a decade - Naudt's paper regarding the "hydrino" state of relativistic hydrogen was not published till 2005 and had the potential to end the controversy but Mills never modified his math and Naudts never gave a physical description. Since then you still have people saying the hydrino doesn't exist and you get papers like Kunze's above demonstrating the fractional quantum spectrum is just artifacts. I have a friend helping me understand Naudts math to see how it relates to Mills empirical data. I suspect Mills fractional quantum are Naudts relativistic shells and both are actually in agreement - Mills is focused only on the "real" values in our plane which are not possible except for Naudt's additional "relativistic" displacement between the orbital and the nucleus.
I do disagree with Mills and other researchers in one regard that is more than just semantics - After 30 years of electronics R&D I doubt that any energy can be gained by diffusing into and out of a catalyst or casimir cavity - Intuitively I know the effect will reverse when the environment is removed unless a reaction occurs while the atoms are inside to change the equation.
Fran
If I'm not mistaken Mills himself has answered quit succinctly Rathke's objections.
JW
P.S. I think you should 'abandon' the use of "sub zero state" since that is a misnomer. It is a fractional quantum, NOT 'sub zero' energy levels.
I think this field is being held back by semantics. The fractional quantum may be the proper term but it is still controversial,.. see time line below.
^ Rathke, Andreas (20 May 2005). "A critical analysis of the hydrino model". http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0505150.
^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.
^ Kunze, H-J (2008). "On the spectroscopic measurements used to support the postulate of states with fractional principal quantum numbers in hydrogen". J Phys D: Appl Phys 41: 108001. doi:10.1088/0022-3727/41/10/108001.
I know Mills is harvesting energy and his math is "reflective" of the empirical data he has gathered but he had to put it in terms consistent with the theory and math he has been using for over a decade - Naudt's paper regarding the "hydrino" state of relativistic hydrogen was not published till 2005 and had the potential to end the controversy but Mills never modified his math and Naudts never gave a physical description. Since then you still have people saying the hydrino doesn't exist and you get papers like Kunze's above demonstrating the fractional quantum spectrum is just artifacts. I have a friend helping me understand Naudts math to see how it relates to Mills empirical data. I suspect Mills fractional quantum are Naudts relativistic shells and both are actually in agreement - Mills is focused only on the "real" values in our plane which are not possible except for Naudt's additional "relativistic" displacement between the orbital and the nucleus.
I do disagree with Mills and other researchers in one regard that is more than just semantics - After 30 years of electronics R&D I doubt that any energy can be gained by diffusing into and out of a catalyst or casimir cavity - Intuitively I know the effect will reverse when the environment is removed unless a reaction occurs while the atoms are inside to change the equation.
Fran
Thanks for the response Fran....and for the reports.
Just read your blog here: http://byzipp.com/energy/blog5.php
...and think it contains a better description of your ideas, the nature of which I think may have some validity.
I like your inclusion of the catalytic dependence upon spatial geometry/dimensions...
I agree Casimir energy seems to give a physical basis for Mills' effect appearing to be catalytic. I like the idea of H2 formation from a transformation to the cavity frame.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture.
More pragmatically, here are everal questions for you to respond to, the answer of which will bring you a step closer to your objective:
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
3. More importantly; H2 has a binding energy of 4.5 ev., about 1/3rd the ionization energy....and how does that change in the cavity frame?. I would think it should change since even the ground state of hydrogen can be shown (to some degree) to be a result of vacuum fluctuations ; (See for ex., ............. H.E. Puthoff, “Ground state of hydrogen as a zero-point-fluctuation-determined state”, Phys. Rev. D, 35, p.3266, 1987.) and...more importantly the atomic energy levels have been shown to be shifted in the cavity as the inverse of the fourth power of the cavity radius (and as the inverse square) : see here: .. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v53/i2/p1126_1
This is especially important since it provides the mechanism for increased energy without Relativistic QED . And determination of any suspected covelent bonding will depend upon these energies.
{This is also the fundamental basis for the suppression of spontaneous emission (decay rates) of excited atoms in Casimir cavities which has been shown experimentally due to the exclusion of cavity modes; see........... http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v55/i20/p2137_1.
or here: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/Ge...=cvips&gifs=yes }
...and even decay rate enhancement is possible with certain atomic polarizations.
4. Have you done the math to see if you can duplicate Mills' results quantitatively? (For. ex. at these temperatures can H2 bond survive?, etc.)
5. Finally, how does the Mills microwave irradiation fit into your scheme? ......will it inhibit or promote H2 bonding in the cavity at these energies...Microwave interaction analysis and prediction is required since microwave glow is necessary for the extra energy production in the Mills cell.
Hope I haven't lost you....
All in all... you are going to have to immerse yourself in the study of what is called Cavity QED in order to prove your position..
Here's more on how the vacuum structure is altered with Casimir cavities....and its atomic effects, even possibly altering the electron magnetic moment.
http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf
Note page 2416 shows some results of microwave irradiation before cavity entrance and resultant atomic enrgy shifts, etc.
Its a fascinating field.
JW
"The Works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure therein". - Inscribed in the Archway of the door leading to James Clerk Maxwell's Cavendish Laboratory - Cambridge
Just read your blog here: http://byzipp.com/energy/blog5.php
...and think it contains a better description of your ideas, the nature of which I think may have some validity.
I like your inclusion of the catalytic dependence upon spatial geometry/dimensions...
I agree Casimir energy seems to give a physical basis for Mills' effect appearing to be catalytic. I like the idea of H2 formation from a transformation to the cavity frame.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture.
More pragmatically, here are everal questions for you to respond to, the answer of which will bring you a step closer to your objective:
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
3. More importantly; H2 has a binding energy of 4.5 ev., about 1/3rd the ionization energy....and how does that change in the cavity frame?. I would think it should change since even the ground state of hydrogen can be shown (to some degree) to be a result of vacuum fluctuations ; (See for ex., ............. H.E. Puthoff, “Ground state of hydrogen as a zero-point-fluctuation-determined state”, Phys. Rev. D, 35, p.3266, 1987.) and...more importantly the atomic energy levels have been shown to be shifted in the cavity as the inverse of the fourth power of the cavity radius (and as the inverse square) : see here: .. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v53/i2/p1126_1
This is especially important since it provides the mechanism for increased energy without Relativistic QED . And determination of any suspected covelent bonding will depend upon these energies.
{This is also the fundamental basis for the suppression of spontaneous emission (decay rates) of excited atoms in Casimir cavities which has been shown experimentally due to the exclusion of cavity modes; see........... http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v55/i20/p2137_1.
or here: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/Ge...=cvips&gifs=yes }
...and even decay rate enhancement is possible with certain atomic polarizations.
4. Have you done the math to see if you can duplicate Mills' results quantitatively? (For. ex. at these temperatures can H2 bond survive?, etc.)
5. Finally, how does the Mills microwave irradiation fit into your scheme? ......will it inhibit or promote H2 bonding in the cavity at these energies...Microwave interaction analysis and prediction is required since microwave glow is necessary for the extra energy production in the Mills cell.
Hope I haven't lost you....
All in all... you are going to have to immerse yourself in the study of what is called Cavity QED in order to prove your position..
Here's more on how the vacuum structure is altered with Casimir cavities....and its atomic effects, even possibly altering the electron magnetic moment.
http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf
Note page 2416 shows some results of microwave irradiation before cavity entrance and resultant atomic enrgy shifts, etc.
Its a fascinating field.
JW
"The Works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure therein". - Inscribed in the Archway of the door leading to James Clerk Maxwell's Cavendish Laboratory - Cambridge
JW,
thank you for your generous reply but my calculus has atrophied for 26 years and I only completed 2 years of engineering physics so the world will run out of energy before I develop the skills! I am putting the model out there to entice a Naudt or a Milton or a Puthoff to step up to the plate and solve the worlds energy problems. I can't do it but I can make the task a little easier by supplying an idea or two... and maybe cajole the players into doing the right thing. If not then perhaps a group effort out here in the forum trenches. I have a sibling with a masters in physics that is helping me but like most is reluctant to commit to a field with this sort of reputation.
"With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture."
Yes I am now an SED advocate - I included same correction from Garret Moddel on this blog
from Proffessor Moddel 3/6/09
"Fran-
Here are my 2 cents.
The model by Haisch and myself is not (yet) "quantum-based," contrary to what you wrote. It is based on stochastic electrodynanics (SED), which provides the same answers as quantum mechanics in a range of physical situations, including hydrogen orbital energies. SED is a classical theory, assuming classical electrodynamics and a zero-point energy background. It is based on ideas of Einstein's, and largely worked out by Boyer. Perhaps someone will work out the quantum solution to the situation we describe: a high-Z noble gas pumped into and out from a Casimir cavity. But until this is done, it is correct to say that our model is SED based.
I think that your idea about a shifting temporal axis is intriguing. To know whether it actually works will take some in-depth analysis.
-Garret
I was also glad to see you liked the catalyst theory but have downplayed it in recent blogs in favor of getting Naudts paper recognized as a precursoe - there is a limit to how much a no name electronics systems engineer can suggest before someone steps on him :_)
regarding your questions :
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
A=Abstract The current voltage behaviour of hydrogen evolving electrodes covered with a closed, smooth layer of Raney-nickel has been treated theoretically. Since the pores of Raney-nickel typically are from 1 to 10 nm wide, they are able, according to the Young-Laplace equation, to keep evolved hydrogen in solution up to concentrations of the order of 0.1 mol dm–3 which correspond to very high effective pressures of the order of 100 MPa. High concentrations of dissolved hydrogen cause substantial concentration-polarisation in the pores even at pore depths of several tenths of micrometres. The consequence is a limited effective pore length and catalyst utilization, respectively. This results in current voltage curves with steadily increasing Tafel slopes, which reach a limiting value of 140 mV dec–1 (-0.5) at 90°C at current densities well above 1000 mA cm–2.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
A= need clarification - H1 will form H2 unless disassociation energy present. The H2 formed inside the cavity can no longer twist with the sloping gradient and is torn apart by accumulating virtual particles trying to push covalent orbitals back up to the surface (our plane) which starts chain reaction -restores monatomic energy and imparts velocity/recombines back into molecule emitting photon and again locking orbitals that resist further gradient change over and over again from their perspective but just an instant of black light plasma from ours. the deeper inside the cavity that the molecule happens to form the longer the sled ride home!
3 will continue next post - Fran
thank you for your generous reply but my calculus has atrophied for 26 years and I only completed 2 years of engineering physics so the world will run out of energy before I develop the skills! I am putting the model out there to entice a Naudt or a Milton or a Puthoff to step up to the plate and solve the worlds energy problems. I can't do it but I can make the task a little easier by supplying an idea or two... and maybe cajole the players into doing the right thing. If not then perhaps a group effort out here in the forum trenches. I have a sibling with a masters in physics that is helping me but like most is reluctant to commit to a field with this sort of reputation.
"With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture."
Yes I am now an SED advocate - I included same correction from Garret Moddel on this blog
from Proffessor Moddel 3/6/09
"Fran-
Here are my 2 cents.
The model by Haisch and myself is not (yet) "quantum-based," contrary to what you wrote. It is based on stochastic electrodynanics (SED), which provides the same answers as quantum mechanics in a range of physical situations, including hydrogen orbital energies. SED is a classical theory, assuming classical electrodynamics and a zero-point energy background. It is based on ideas of Einstein's, and largely worked out by Boyer. Perhaps someone will work out the quantum solution to the situation we describe: a high-Z noble gas pumped into and out from a Casimir cavity. But until this is done, it is correct to say that our model is SED based.
I think that your idea about a shifting temporal axis is intriguing. To know whether it actually works will take some in-depth analysis.
-Garret
I was also glad to see you liked the catalyst theory but have downplayed it in recent blogs in favor of getting Naudts paper recognized as a precursoe - there is a limit to how much a no name electronics systems engineer can suggest before someone steps on him :_)
regarding your questions :
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
A=Abstract The current voltage behaviour of hydrogen evolving electrodes covered with a closed, smooth layer of Raney-nickel has been treated theoretically. Since the pores of Raney-nickel typically are from 1 to 10 nm wide, they are able, according to the Young-Laplace equation, to keep evolved hydrogen in solution up to concentrations of the order of 0.1 mol dm–3 which correspond to very high effective pressures of the order of 100 MPa. High concentrations of dissolved hydrogen cause substantial concentration-polarisation in the pores even at pore depths of several tenths of micrometres. The consequence is a limited effective pore length and catalyst utilization, respectively. This results in current voltage curves with steadily increasing Tafel slopes, which reach a limiting value of 140 mV dec–1 (-0.5) at 90°C at current densities well above 1000 mA cm–2.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
A= need clarification - H1 will form H2 unless disassociation energy present. The H2 formed inside the cavity can no longer twist with the sloping gradient and is torn apart by accumulating virtual particles trying to push covalent orbitals back up to the surface (our plane) which starts chain reaction -restores monatomic energy and imparts velocity/recombines back into molecule emitting photon and again locking orbitals that resist further gradient change over and over again from their perspective but just an instant of black light plasma from ours. the deeper inside the cavity that the molecule happens to form the longer the sled ride home!
3 will continue next post - Fran
QUOTE (Just Wonderful+Mar 18 2009, 03:15 AM)
I agree Casimir energy seems to give a physical basis for Mills' effect appearing to be catalytic. I like the idea of H2 formation from a transformation to the cavity frame.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture.
More pragmatically, here are everal questions for you to respond to, the answer of which will bring you a step closer to your objective:
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
3. More importantly; H2 has a binding energy of 4.5 ev., about 1/3rd the ionization energy....and how does that change in the cavity frame?. I would think it should change since even the ground state of hydrogen can be shown (to some degree) to be a result of vacuum fluctuations ; (See for ex., ............. H.E. Puthoff, “Ground state of hydrogen as a zero-point-fluctuation-determined state”, Phys. Rev. D, 35, p.3266, 1987.) and...more importantly the atomic energy levels have been shown to be shifted in the cavity as the inverse of the fourth power of the cavity radius (and as the inverse square) : see here: .. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v53/i2/p1126_1
This is especially important since it provides the mechanism for increased energy without Relativistic QED . And determination of any suspected covelent bonding will depend upon these energies.
{This is also the fundamental basis for the suppression of spontaneous emission (decay rates) of excited atoms in Casimir cavities which has been shown experimentally due to the exclusion of cavity modes; see........... http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v55/i20/p2137_1.
or here: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/Ge...=cvips&gifs=yes }
...and even decay rate enhancement is possible with certain atomic polarizations.
4. Have you done the math to see if you can duplicate Mills' results quantitatively? (For. ex. at these temperatures can H2 bond survive?, etc.)
5. Finally, how does the Mills microwave irradiation fit into your scheme? ......will it inhibit or promote H2 bonding in the cavity at these energies...Microwave interaction analysis and prediction is required since microwave glow is necessary for the extra energy production in the Mills cell.
Hope I haven't lost you....
All in all... you are going to have to immerse yourself in the study of what is called Cavity QED in order to prove your position..
Here's more on how the vacuum structure is altered with Casimir cavities....and its atomic effects, even possibly altering the electron magnetic moment.
http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf
Note page 2416 shows some results of microwave irradiation before cavity entrance and resultant atomic enrgy shifts, etc.
Its a fascinating field.
JW
"The Works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure therein". - Inscribed in the Archway of the door leading to James Clerk Maxwell's Cavendish Laboratory - Cambridge
I think we can get avg acceleration from the gas laws for H1 but once the H2 forms covalent bonds something special starts to happen. The orientation of the orbitals is normal (least resistance to virtual particle stream) for the specific slope in the gradient where it formed but as the new molecule moves "up" the curved gradient the orbitals start to stick out in the stream like wings which the stream then pushes against trying fold the wings back- this will impart some directional energy before breaking the m bond and starting the cycle over again getting faster each time... sled ride back to normal space? If you figure out the equation for 1 cycle and kow it's acceleration "upward" could you integrte it over the avg 5nm width of a Rayney Nickel cavity to get a ball park? (actually guess we need to determine how far in the atoms normally diffuse before they form a molecule - probably explains the different fractional quantums) I do think the black plasma imay be just normal hydrogen spectrum "frequency sweeping" from our perspective as it follows a curved temporal gradient back to normal space at the cavity entrance.
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I think we can get avg acceleration from the gas laws for H1 but once the H2 forms covalent bonds something special starts to happen. The orientation of the orbitals is normal (least resistance to virtual particle stream) for the specific slope in the gradient where it formed but as the new molecule moves "up" the curved gradient the orbitals start to stick out in the stream like wings which the stream then pushes against trying fold the wings back- this will impart some directional energy before breaking the m bond and starting the cycle over again getting faster each time... sled ride back to normal space? If you figure out the equation for 1 cycle and kow it's acceleration "upward" could you integrte it over the avg 5nm width of a Rayney Nickel cavity to get a ball park? (actually guess we need to determine how far in the atoms normally diffuse before they form a molecule - probably explains the different fractional quantums) I do think the black plasma imay be just normal hydrogen spectrum "frequency sweeping" from our perspective as it follows a curved temporal gradient back to normal space at the cavity entrance.
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Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
With respect to this....
...................<^ Naudts, Jan (5 August 2005). "On the hydrino state of the relativistic hydrogen atom". arXiv. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0507193v2.>
Even though the single QM predicted Hydrino state is fascinating in its own right, its binding energy is 4 orders of magnitude (10,000 times) larger than the Hydrogen ground state energy !...placing it on the order of nuclear energy, and clearly not compatible with Mills' empirical data.
IOW, Relativistic QED predicts this one fractional quantum state at an energy which really does not seem relevant to your conjecture.
More pragmatically, here are everal questions for you to respond to, the answer of which will bring you a step closer to your objective:
1. What are the avg. dimensions of Mills' Rayney nickel cavities .? This will give an idea of the possible energy density change from the normal vacuum and thus a corresponding 'time dilation' ....and also give a clue to the answers of the questions below.
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
3. More importantly; H2 has a binding energy of 4.5 ev., about 1/3rd the ionization energy....and how does that change in the cavity frame?. I would think it should change since even the ground state of hydrogen can be shown (to some degree) to be a result of vacuum fluctuations ; (See for ex., ............. H.E. Puthoff, “Ground state of hydrogen as a zero-point-fluctuation-determined state”, Phys. Rev. D, 35, p.3266, 1987.) and...more importantly the atomic energy levels have been shown to be shifted in the cavity as the inverse of the fourth power of the cavity radius (and as the inverse square) : see here: .. http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v53/i2/p1126_1
This is especially important since it provides the mechanism for increased energy without Relativistic QED . And determination of any suspected covelent bonding will depend upon these energies.
{This is also the fundamental basis for the suppression of spontaneous emission (decay rates) of excited atoms in Casimir cavities which has been shown experimentally due to the exclusion of cavity modes; see........... http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v55/i20/p2137_1.
or here: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/Ge...=cvips&gifs=yes }
...and even decay rate enhancement is possible with certain atomic polarizations.
4. Have you done the math to see if you can duplicate Mills' results quantitatively? (For. ex. at these temperatures can H2 bond survive?, etc.)
5. Finally, how does the Mills microwave irradiation fit into your scheme? ......will it inhibit or promote H2 bonding in the cavity at these energies...Microwave interaction analysis and prediction is required since microwave glow is necessary for the extra energy production in the Mills cell.
Hope I haven't lost you....
All in all... you are going to have to immerse yourself in the study of what is called Cavity QED in order to prove your position..
Here's more on how the vacuum structure is altered with Casimir cavities....and its atomic effects, even possibly altering the electron magnetic moment.
http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf
Note page 2416 shows some results of microwave irradiation before cavity entrance and resultant atomic enrgy shifts, etc.
Its a fascinating field.
JW
"The Works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure therein". - Inscribed in the Archway of the door leading to James Clerk Maxwell's Cavendish Laboratory - Cambridge
QUOTE
I agree Casimir energy seems to give a physical basis for Mills' effect appearing to be catalytic. I like the idea of H2 formation from a transformation to the cavity frame.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries.
This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates).
The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained.
I think we can get avg acceleration from the gas laws for H1 but once the H2 forms covalent bonds something special starts to happen. The orientation of the orbitals is normal (least resistance to virtual particle stream) for the specific slope in the gradient where it formed but as the new molecule moves "up" the curved gradient the orbitals start to stick out in the stream like wings which the stream then pushes against trying fold the wings back- this will impart some directional energy before breaking the m bond and starting the cycle over again getting faster each time... sled ride back to normal space? If you figure out the equation for 1 cycle and kow it's acceleration "upward" could you integrte it over the avg 5nm width of a Rayney Nickel cavity to get a ball park? (actually guess we need to determine how far in the atoms normally diffuse before they form a molecule - probably explains the different fractional quantums) I do think the black plasma imay be just normal hydrogen spectrum "frequency sweeping" from our perspective as it follows a curved temporal gradient back to normal space at the cavity entrance.
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QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I agree Casimir energy seems to give a physical basis for Mills' effect appearing to be catalytic. I like the idea of H2 formation from a transformation to the cavity frame. It is certainly true that there is a reduction in the vacuum energy density in a Casimir cavity which can correspond to a local 'space-time' deformation, the isotropy being destroyed by the boundaries. This Energy density figure is easily obtainable (knowing the cavity dimensions), and goes as the inverse 4th power (of the plate separation for flat plates). The avg. H acceleration in the cavity needs to be obtained. |
I think we can get avg acceleration from the gas laws for H1 but once the H2 forms covalent bonds something special starts to happen. The orientation of the orbitals is normal (least resistance to virtual particle stream) for the specific slope in the gradient where it formed but as the new molecule moves "up" the curved gradient the orbitals start to stick out in the stream like wings which the stream then pushes against trying fold the wings back- this will impart some directional energy before breaking the m bond and starting the cycle over again getting faster each time... sled ride back to normal space? If you figure out the equation for 1 cycle and kow it's acceleration "upward" could you integrte it over the avg 5nm width of a Rayney Nickel cavity to get a ball park? (actually guess we need to determine how far in the atoms normally diffuse before they form a molecule - probably explains the different fractional quantums) I do think the black plasma imay be just normal hydrogen spectrum "frequency sweeping" from our perspective as it follows a curved temporal gradient back to normal space at the cavity entrance.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Using Stochastic Electrodynamics may be easier than Relativistic QED (similar to that used here.... Puthoff, “Gravity as a zero-point-fluctuation force”, Phys. Rev. A, 39, p.2333, 1989)....since it is a semi-classical which replicates QED closely in cavity dynamics.....and from this report you can get some ideas of how to transform from vacuum zero point energy to gravitational effect.....which is basically what you are attempting by looking for a space-time deformation.
I agree there would be some gravitational effect prior to the breaking of the covalent bond releasing the accumulated boundary conditions but unless the "twisted" molecule could be extracted still stable from the cavity you would need to "drive" the entire cavity as an ionized powder to maintain a gravitational weight reduction- I do think that a "frictional" effect may be measurable presently if a BLP reactor were put on a balance scale and compared on state vs offstate with calibrated weight additions or removals while recording the "settle" time.
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-not sure why ... can you expand?
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looks like I need to do some reading before I can reply to any more!
Fran
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QUOTE
2. Your proposal would necessitate an increasingly higher ratio of H2 to H1 in the Mills' product as the the process in the cell continues. What has been discovered in the Mills' product with time? Any high ratio of H2 to H1 would go a long way in verifying your proposal.
-not sure why ... can you expand?
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looks like I need to do some reading before I can reply to any more!
Fran
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