IF the "Flood of Noah" actually occurred, then all bets are off concerning standard dating techniques of the earth.
Since the earth's surface basically consists of water-laid sediment (ever notice how most public park interpretation signs start off with "millions of years ago this area was a shallow ocean"?), containing billions of dead things buried in said sediment, and that fossilization requires sudden burial (when's the last time you saw a fish becoming fossilized at your local lake?), it is reasonable to consider the possibility of such a world-wide cataclysm.
Since there's talk of dry Mars having once been covered with water, why is it so incredible to consider that Earth, being 70% covered in water, was once inundated?
Since many world cultures have traditions of a flood, often with similar details to the Genesis record, it seems reasonable to consider the possibility of such an historical event.
Everyone has a paradigm through which they interpret data. A long-ager looks at a sequence of fossils with "simple" organisms at the bottom, and more complex organisms at the top, and interprets this sequence as millions of years of change. A young-ager looks at this same sequence, and interprets this sequence as a record of a global flood that buried the sea-bottom dwellers first, and then the fish (which now show up as fossils in the middle of giving birth or eating another fish or with fins splayed out in terror and spine twisted in trauma-induced spasms), and then the amphibians at the edge of the water, and then the smaller reptiles farther from the water's edge, and then the larger reptiles and faster small mammals, and finally the larger, faster mammals, birds, and humans.
So we have two models: the question is, "Which one fits the data the best?"
Many refuse to consider the flood model, not because the data is inconsistent with it, but because it has "distasteful" philosophical repercussions.
There are many dating methods that conflict with the 4.6 billion year old figure given by the often-demonstrably wrong radiometric dating techniques. But they tend to be ignored because of, again, philosophical reasons rather than scientific reasons.
There's lots of information out there on the web concerning these things. Google is your friend; just be aware that there's a LOT of noise concerning the topic, mostly from those who react with vitriol and name-calling of those who challenge the dominant long-age paradigm.
I've read the so-called evidence for the flood model and I don't believe it is a credible theory.
This refutation of the flood model is to me convincing evidence that the earth is definitely older than 6000 years.
www[dot]talkorigins[dot]org/faqs/geocolumn/ (apologies but I can't post links yet)
If you have a better article to point me to that defends the flood model, I'm all ears.
El_Machinae
5th August 2007 - 04:01 PM
QUOTE (Snarky+Aug 5 2007, 02:44 PM)
[containing billions of dead things buried in said sediment, and that fossilization requires sudden burial (when's the last time you saw a fish becoming fossilized at your local lake?),
That's actually a good point. There are fossil columns that contain more fossils than could have existed on the planet at one time. Even if every single animal on Earth, at one time, was piled up and buried - there'd be more fossils in those specific columns than could have happened with such an event.
A Flood cannot explain these fossils, because there are too many of them.
And that's just individual columns
QUOTE
Yes, Al-Quran (The Koran) of Islam agrees with science, the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
Only if you want to partake of selective reading.
FUSSILAT (41) states that the Earth, and life on the Earth, was made before the Sun, Moon, and other visible planets. I think not.
Chicken#001
5th August 2007 - 08:28 PM
@An
So you say that the Dinosaurs only lived 6000-7000 years ago? Hm. Interesting.
Guest_Adam
5th August 2007 - 09:27 PM
Smart people are good at rationalizing their failed beliefs.
Not every religious person is stupid, some are incredibly intelligent, but once your core choices are set the intelligence goes to rationalization of those choices.
Hence, he will believe everything that supports his hypothesis and just ignore anything that does not.
This is not science, they like to think it's science, and argue that it's science. The real difference is that some people seem to be able to accept word of mouth and a book as true. Others need evidence, experiments that prove the true nature of the universe.
That being said, if you believe the earth is 6000 years old, what the *** are you doing on a physics and technology forum, can I even begin to mention how wrong that is??
1. Stars are millions of light years away, that right there proves that the universe is older then 6000 years, unless you want to believe that your god "put the light there"
2. Show me the dinosaurs, oh yeah, 6000 years old or maybe god or the devil put them there.
3. Evolution proves that we would need more then 6000 years to get to this point. Unfortunately the common response is "this doesn't happen in observable scales at a large scale, e.g. sprouting legs on a fish", to this there is no argument, these people can not understand things in the scale that are required, 6000 years ago, humans were roughly the same as they are today, just with less accumulated knowledge and maybe slightly less genetically diverse. Try 6 million, or 60 million years ago.
Anyways, there is very little point. There is extortion in religion, eternal life in heaven or hell. Only faith will save you, yada yada yada. They don't have the balls to go against the consensus in their local communities and realize there is no heaven and hell. Your only real hope towards any eternal life is one that humankind achieves themselves, through science. And it will most likely take place in this life you have now.
Now I'm sure there are flaws in my beliefs, but science is the continual refinement of beliefs to come closer to the truth. I'd prefer that then a somewhat static representation of the first publication ever.
Maybe in 100 years ago when death was a futile thing, but in the last 100 years the age of humans has doubled. Does god deserve any kudo's for that? Unfortunately no.
Guest_Rick
6th August 2007 - 12:13 AM
"The trees have not turned into fossils yet because the Earth is only 6,000-7,000 years old."
Your statement acknowledges that fossils do exist, and that a long period of time is required for fossil formation, yet by your measure of the Earth's age fossils should not exist at all.
notlim
6th August 2007 - 01:38 AM
Cant be a fossil because the earth is 6000 - 7000 years old? Think about how stupid you are. idiot
Senefen
6th August 2007 - 05:21 AM
"The trees have not turned into fossils yet because the Earth is only 6,000-7,000 years old."
If you want to believe in fossils you can't believe in a 7000 year old earth. No where in the bible does it say the Earth is 7000 years old. It was estimated to be 7000 years old by Tomas Aquinus (I believe, may have been someone else), by adding the ages of the prophets and some family trees back to Adam.
Believe that if you want, and believe that there was nothign a week before Adam. But then don't believe in fossils, or dinosaurs, and take pi to be exactly 3 (the bible says so). You can live in blind faith if you choose, but a science, physics, technology forum is possibly not the best place to do it.
El_Machinae
6th August 2007 - 05:38 AM
I suspect we've been successfully trolled.
Guest_Bob
6th August 2007 - 08:25 AM
I would say so, yes.
para
6th August 2007 - 10:30 AM
"The trees have not turned into fossils yet because the Earth is only 6,000-7,000 years old."
take your ignorant religious fundamentalism elsewhere.
Guest_Sam
6th August 2007 - 01:32 PM
If those tree did not fossilize due to the earth being only 6-7,000 years old, then how did other trees fossilize, such as in the "petrified forest" in Arizona? Wake up, you sleeping morons. Natural processes such as fossilization take more than 7,000 years, and do not fit your uninformed view of the world, which was beaten into your tiny brains by people even less educated than yourselves.
Giac
6th August 2007 - 03:44 PM
The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%)
jx1
6th August 2007 - 04:13 PM
LMFAO!!!
"6-7000 year's old"
that's rich!
*rofl*
JMWeikle
7th August 2007 - 12:36 AM
If the trees are 8 million years old, the important question is "What prevented the trees from becoming fossilized?" Was there sometype of microscopic bacteria, an extremophyl that prevented the fossilization process from occuring? For trees to exist this long, without some form of fossilization process from occuring, should generate scientific exploration.
It is better to look at the world with scientific questions and methodologies, therein true learning and wisdom can be gain.
DiamondJim
7th August 2007 - 07:21 AM
QUOTE (An+Aug 5 2007, 04:19 AM)
"The find is unique because the trees have not turned into fossils, which means they could yield clues to plant life in pre-historic times. "
The trees have not turned into fossils yet because the Earth is only 6,000-7,000 years old.
Sure, God put fossils there to test us so if anyone believes in them, the God of Love then gets to torture them forever in hell.
GeneSplicer
7th August 2007 - 01:09 PM
QUOTE (naomi+Aug 5 2007, 10:12 AM)
Yes, Al-Quran (The Koran) of Islam agrees with science, the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
The only thing more amusing than the claims of the xian bible are the more outrageous ones put forth by followers of the koran. Islam does not have a set position on the actual age of the Earth.
El_Machinae
9th August 2007 - 02:29 AM
I don't know. The Bible is more specific in its details (and thus, more wrong). The Koran is remarkably vague sometimes, and so it's hard to say that it's 'wrong'. It's mostly just ... well, not all that useful. Unless, of course, you allow different sections to be used with each other (i.e, when it describes the Earth in one place, it's referring to the same Earth in another): then it's clearly out to lunch.
The Hadith are more usefully wrong: claiming that lightning is an angel driving the clouds with its whip, that there are 360 joints in the human body, etc.
DiamondJim
9th August 2007 - 08:09 AM
All religious books were obviously written by the people of the time so contains the urban myths of the time without any unknown knowledge.
GeneSplicer
9th August 2007 - 01:40 PM
I believe the Koran does make the claim that god split the moon in two. I have spoken to and debated Muslims who claim that his is fact and that NASA has even verified it by observation and when we landed on the moon.
professor andy
9th August 2007 - 04:07 PM
Lord save us..
Such a debate.. Where the carbon dating methods cocked-up when it said 8million years?
Here are valid questions..
1) How accurite is carbon dating?
In degree-mode physics, we are taught that to express a quantity correctly we have to also give an uncertainty. "It's useless without an uncertainty". This is so we can easily see how sharp the results are.
From my very own experience from years of graph plotting, I know that exponential graphs can be hard to read. Since they are calculated from a few real world samples and then a trend is "predicted" (so-to-speak) Im not sure of their accuracy at all.
I'm not necessarly taking the creation view here
2) How do we know how much carbon14 the plant initially took in initially?
Also a concern with many (should be all acctually) scientists is that news papers (especially) will show a result but will fail to give an uncertainty.
There ye go!
rpenner
9th August 2007 - 07:06 PM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Aug 9 2007, 01:40 PM)
I believe the Koran does make the claim that god split the moon in two. I have spoken to and debated Muslims who claim that his is fact and that NASA has even verified it by observation and when we landed on the moon.
Quran 54:1 The exact tense and agency and nature of this is of some debate.
But a much clearer depiction this as a historical supernatural event is alledged in some Hadiths. While the Quran is "of Allah", the Hadiths are tales about the Prophet which eventually got written down and collected. Not all Islamic groups endorse all Hadiths, so I am at a loss to figure out what percentage of Muslims consider this Gospel.
QUOTE (Sahih Moslem+ Book 039, Number 6725)
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abdullah b. Mas'ud (who said):
QUOTE
We were along with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to us: Bear witness to this.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| We were along with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to us: Bear witness to this. |
'Abdullah b. Mas'ud reported that the moon was split up in two parts during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). The mountain covered one of its parts and one part of it was above the mountain and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Bear witness to this.
QUOTE (Sahih Bukhary+ Volume 6, Book 60, Number 387)
Narrated Ibn Masud:
QUOTE
During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split into two parts; one part remained over the mountain, and the other part went beyond the mountain. On that, Allah's Apostle said, "Witness this miracle."
Opinions:
1) The event was historical and grossly supernatural.
http://www.islambyquestions.net/miracles/moon.htmhttp://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_split.htm (I doubt that the photo is undoctored but am unwilling to churn through NASA imagery to find the undoctored version.)
http://www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/increaseim...039613112.shtml (I doubt that such a TV interview exists - it is very vague in authority and very specific in confirming details.)
2) The event is a omen of the End Times and need not be supernatural, and even the 1969 Moon rocks constitute a type of "splitting up of the moon."
http://www.submission.org/miracle/moon.html3) The Quran is not saying any such thing at all. It's being poetical
(Appearantly it's defamatory to some Muslims to even imply that Islamic poetry can exist.)
4) Words on paper, regardless of numbers of followers, may freely be fact or fiction.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopi...der=asc&start=0
Guest_mark
9th August 2007 - 07:34 PM
question? are the 8 million year old trees alive?
in my opinion, they would have to be, not to decay, and turn to dust.
can anyone find out?
Zarabtul
9th August 2007 - 08:13 PM
I could send an e-mail over to Hungary and ask if it's all that important. He was my first preacher and teaches at the school there.
professor andy
9th August 2007 - 08:33 PM
"..was the son of a preacher man!" Woot!
Trippy
10th August 2007 - 01:25 AM
QUOTE (rpenner+Aug 10 2007, 07:06 AM)
Quran 54:1 The exact tense and agency and nature of this is of some debate.
But a much clearer depiction this as a historical supernatural event is alledged in some Hadiths. While the Quran is "of Allah", the Hadiths are tales about the Prophet which eventually got written down and collected. Not all Islamic groups endorse all Hadiths, so I am at a loss to figure out what percentage of Muslims consider this Gospel.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Opinions:
1) The event was historical and grossly supernatural.
http://www.islambyquestions.net/miracles/moon.htmhttp://www.answering-christianity.com/moon_split.htm (I doubt that the photo is undoctored but am unwilling to churn through NASA imagery to find the undoctored version.)
http://www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/increaseim...039613112.shtml (I doubt that such a TV interview exists - it is very vague in authority and very specific in confirming details.)
2) The event is a omen of the End Times and need not be supernatural, and even the 1969 Moon rocks constitute a type of "splitting up of the moon."
http://www.submission.org/miracle/moon.html3) The Quran is not saying any such thing at all. It's being poetical
(Appearantly it's defamatory to some Muslims to even imply that Islamic poetry can exist.)
4) Words on paper, regardless of numbers of followers, may freely be fact or fiction.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopi...der=asc&start=0
Just look like a photograph of one of the lunar rilles to me (a well documented phenomnom. Some of the extend significant distances, up and down hill, but, notice how in the image there's no sense of scale? We could be looking at a rille that's a meter wide, and extends no more then one hundred meters.
rpenner
10th August 2007 - 07:47 AM
Thank you. I found the original photo from NASA.
http://www.skyimagelab.com/ap11lunril.html (click to zoom)
http://www.astrosurf.com/lunascan/AS10-31-4645.htmThe softly rounded edges suggest to me that these could not have been formed in historical time. This one (Ariadaeus Rille) is huge and could be
photographed from Earth.
Trippy
10th August 2007 - 09:09 AM
QUOTE (rpenner+Aug 10 2007, 07:47 PM)
Thank you. I found the original photo from NASA.
http://www.skyimagelab.com/ap11lunril.html (click to zoom)
http://www.astrosurf.com/lunascan/AS10-31-4645.htmThe softly rounded edges suggest to me that these could not have been formed in historical time. This one (Ariadaeus Rille) is huge and could be
photographed from Earth.
Thankyou.
Pretty much, yeah.
It also occurs to me that, even if they had formed in historical times, that if the moon had split in half, the geologist in me would expect there to be a pattern in the distribution and orientations of the rilles, and, as far as I know, there is none.
GeneSplicer
10th August 2007 - 01:12 PM
QUOTE (Trippy+Aug 10 2007, 05:09 AM)
It also occurs to me that, even if they had formed in historical times, that if the moon had split in half, the geologist in me would expect there to be a pattern in the distribution and orientations of the rilles, and, as far as I know, there is none.
Not to mention that people all around the world would have recorded such an event.
Trippy
10th August 2007 - 11:44 PM
QUOTE (GeneSplicer+Aug 11 2007, 01:12 AM)
Not to mention that people all around the world would have recorded such an event.
Then there's the non existant debris ring.
Zarabtul
11th August 2007 - 12:07 AM
That's right it was a little like that huh. Odd stuff indeed.... This thread lost me for a second then i figured I'd just drop in and say again, "Them containers ready, and do we need it?"
Snarky
11th August 2007 - 06:56 PM
QUOTE (El_Machinae+Aug 5 2007, 04:01 PM)
There are fossil columns that contain more fossils than could have existed on the planet at one time. Even if every single animal on Earth, at one time, was piled up and buried - there'd be more fossils in those specific columns than could have happened with such an event.
Interesting claim, but I'm skeptical of it. I've seen a few massive fossil beds, but on the whole, the rocks I've seen don't convince me that there are more fossils anywhere than could exist at one time on the planet. Remember, most of those billions of fossils are smallish - plants, fish, worms, and the like, and there are billions and billions of these things living on the planet right now.
Documentation of your claim would be enlightening.
rpenner
11th August 2007 - 07:27 PM
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/toomanyanimals.htmhttp://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH550.htmlhttp://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecordQUOTE
Where were all the fossilized animals when they were alive? Schadewald [1982] writes:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
Where were all the fossilized animals when they were alive? Schadewald [1982] writes: Scientific creationists interpret the fossils found in the earth's rocks as the remains of animals that perished in the Noachian Deluge. Ironically, they often cite the sheer number of fossils in 'fossil graveyards' as evidence for the Flood. In particular, creationists seem enamored by the Karroo Formation in Africa, which is estimated to contain the remains of 800 billion vertebrate animals (see Whitcomb and Morris, p. 160; Gish, p. 61). As pseudoscientists, creationists dare not test this major hypothesis that all of the fossilized animals died in the Flood.
Robert E. Sloan, a paleontologist at the University of Minnesota, has studied the Karroo Formation. He asserts that the animals fossilized there range from the size of a small lizard to the size of a cow, with the average animal perhaps the size of a fox. A minute's work with a calculator shows that, if the 800 billion animals in the Karoo formation could be resurrected, there would be twenty-one of them for every acre of land on earth. Suppose we assume (conservatively, I think) that the Karroo Formation contains 1 percent of the vertebrate [land] fossils on earth. Then when the Flood began, there must have been at least 2100 living animals per acre, ranging from tiny shrews to immense dinosaurs. To a noncreationist mind, that seems a bit crowded. A thousand kilometers' length of arctic coastal plain, according to experts in Leningrad, contains about 500,000 tons of tusks. Even assuming that the entire population was preserved, you seem to be saying that Russia had wall-to-wall mammoths before this "event."
Even if there was room physically for all the large animals which now exist only as fossils, how could they have all coexisted in a stable ecology before the Flood? Montana alone would have had to support a diversity of herbivores orders of magnitude larger than anything now observed.
Where did all the organic material in the fossil record come from? There are 1.16 x 10^13 metric tons of coal reserves, and at least 100 times that much unrecoverable organic matter in sediments. A typical forest, even if it covered the entire earth, would supply only 1.9 x 10^13 metric tons. [Ricklefs, 1993, p. 149] |
Snarky
11th August 2007 - 07:40 PM
QUOTE (platorulez@mac.com+Aug 5 2007, 03:20 PM)
I've read the so-called evidence for the flood model and I don't believe it is a credible theory.
This refutation of the flood model is to me convincing evidence that the earth is definitely older than 6000 years.
www[dot]talkorigins[dot]org/faqs/geocolumn/ (apologies but I can't post links yet)
If you have a better article to point me to that defends the flood model, I'm all ears.
Morton makes some interesting challenges to the flood-based interpretation framework of earth history, but nothing that seems to me to be a knock-out punch.
He makes several errors in this paper which would skew his results.
For example, some of his calculations are based on a year-long flood. As most Bible-based flood adherents would admit, Noah and his family and the animals were indeed in the confines of the ark for about a year (c. 375 days). But it's obvious that a flood is not over when the flood victims step from the rescue boats, but rather when the flood waters recede back to their former level, or to a new state of equilibrium. It might be argued that we're still not to equilibrium, but at any rate, few would doubt that the flood "continued" for some time after Noah left the ark. Many flood geologists would attribute the "Ice Age" to the repercussions of the flood, about 500 years later. They also would attribute the drying up of the Great Salt Lake Basin (Utah, USA), the carving out of the Grand Canyon (mostly Arizona, USA), and perhaps the filling up of the Mediterranean Basin to the after-effects of the flood, perhaps centuries later. When referring to the Haymond beds, which are 1300 meters thick, Morton claims that "[e]ven allowing for a daily cycle, [it] would require 41 years for this deposit to be laid down." With a flood lasting one year, he has indeed presented a show-stopper. With a flood lasting years, perhaps centuries in places, it's still a challenge, but not a show-stopper.
Morton's basic gist in this paper is that the Geologic Column does exist in entirety (essentially) in several places on the earth. Of course, that's not the question. The question is "How was this column deposited? Rapidly, over a short period of time, or slowly, over eons?" (And it's healthy to remember that rocks don't come out of the ground labeled "Devonian" or "Permian"; they are labeled by humans, viewing through their world-view glasses, who have interpreted these rocks to be Devonian or Permian.)
Morton also refers to burrow and shale deposition and mud cracks as evidence against the flood. The burrows and mud cracks are unconvincing to me (and have been addressed elsewhere (a quickly-Googled example at creationwiki[dot]org/Flood_geology#Fossil_Burrows)), but the shale deposition will require additional research.
No, I don't know of any one particular article that better defends the flood model; but there's enough questions about the mainstream view (polystrate fossils, anyone? bent, but not broken, rock strata? 122 meters of strata deposited rapidly at Mt. St. Helens, 7 of which were deposited in a single day (above reference), carving out of a 27 km-long canyon 42 meters deep in a single day (above ref.), submarine canyons larger than the Grand Canyon running thousands of kilometers into the oceans (above ref.), massive lava flows unlike anything we've ever observed under today's conditions, etc) that convince me that a person should really be open-minded about an alternative interpretive framework of earth history.
Zarabtul
12th August 2007 - 11:40 PM
How can you refute there was a flooding of the earth...
Do we really waste funds on this?
Westdox
14th August 2007 - 12:10 AM
In the beginning god....
or
In the beginning dirt(aka energy/matter)...
There is no proof how old the earth is. Only theory.
Fossils at certain levels of dirt help suggest the age.
Dirt levels with certain fossils help suggest the age.
Yes, circular reasoning.
How is it anything exists for that matter?
ninesunz
14th August 2007 - 01:37 AM
I have a question. But before I do I want you all to know I am a believer of the scientific model.
My question is, can science discover how it(the universe or greater) all began?
It is said the big bang started it all. But science states you cannot start something from nothing.
It is said there are diffrent planes of existance and when those planes touched the big bang resulted.
Do you agree that the instruments in this reality can only measure the reality it was created in? We cannot know what is beyond our universe because we are bound by it, we cannot prove or measure anything beyond our reality yes?
But let's start from the beginning (of knowledge), matter is made of atoms, and all matter is a form (state) of energy. And all this energy from the big bang etc etc.
If we keep tracing back and back and back there is something that caused something else which caused something else etc. etc.
But it brings us back to the one question, how did it get there? Do you agree there has to be a single starting point when all came into existance? And if it is beyond our reality is it too far of a leap to say there is a 'God' ?
Not the 'God' in the current books of course
If anything, science trying to understand all that is in existance may come to find God in what he has left here. You can't disagree that the way the universe exists as we know it is godly built.
hawksecho
15th August 2007 - 12:46 AM
6,00 Years old? OK, then why do we have Sumerian writings that are several thousand years older. how do we know the age? these people were very good at astronomy. we are talking meticulous. By understanding the position of the stars and planets, we know when they looked up, and said OH MERCY! the same explanation I will give you the same explanation I give every other so-called creation scientist, talk about a contradiction in terms, creation science is as much science as is voodoo, perhaps worse, a lot worse. for some people voodoo gives them a sense of solace.And as long as you dint hurt animals which, I do not tolerate, then knock your self out baby...Oh by the way, perhaps if you have pried your self away from one the religious channels, the history/learning/national geographic and sometimes PBS are priceless. In the UK about 7,0001 to 10,000 years ago people ended up in peat bogs, we don't know if it was some kind of ritual sacrifice, since a lot of them had cords wrasped the neck, I can only assume they did not go willingly. And why do people mumified in ancient Egypt not rot? Freeze dying works.
Guest_ler177
15th August 2007 - 06:09 AM
QUOTE
In the beginning god....
or
In the beginning dirt(aka energy/matter)...
It sounds like you've been listening to Mr. Hovind. Have you heard that he's been put away for ten years for tax evasion?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
In the beginning god....
or
In the beginning dirt(aka energy/matter)... |
It sounds like you've been listening to Mr. Hovind. Have you heard that he's been put away for ten years for tax evasion?
There is no proof how old the earth is. Only theory.
You're confused about what 'fact' and 'theory' mean. Only mathematicians and mathematical physicists talk about proofs.
physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node7[DOT]html
QUOTE
Do you agree that the instruments in this reality can only measure the reality it was created in? We cannot know what is beyond our universe because we are bound by it, we cannot prove or measure anything beyond our reality yes?
That's true, but while there is lots that we can't explain, there is no definite evidence that we must look to 'other realities' to explain things such as life.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Do you agree that the instruments in this reality can only measure the reality it was created in? We cannot know what is beyond our universe because we are bound by it, we cannot prove or measure anything beyond our reality yes? |
That's true, but while there is lots that we can't explain, there is no definite evidence that we must look to 'other realities' to explain things such as life.
You can't disagree that the way the universe exists as we know it is godly built.
People can and do.
DaveGood
17th August 2007 - 07:51 PM
The Earth is 6,000 years old?
And you base that on the Bible?
Parts of which were written 8.000 years ago?
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