How to calculate distance between electron and nuclear for any atom? And how to calculate how much electrons are in each orbit? And electrons velocity?
You mean you don't know how to work it out? After all your whining about the Schrodinger equation and Pauli matrices, you cannot work out even a semi-classical interpretation of electron orbits doing on purely Newtonian grounds?
And you obviously still haven't learnt even the basic concepts of quantum mechanics because the electron doesn't have a velocity moving around the nucleus, it isn't an orbitting object in the same way planets are around the sun.
It staggers me that you can put in so much time and effort into complaining about things you don't understand, all the while thinking you understand them, and then ask a question like that. You obviously just LOVE ****ing your time down the drain, reading papers you don't understand about quantum computing, which you don't understand, and then whining about them and not understanding the explainations you're then provided by people like me, who end up getting a warning for getting exaspered by people like you.
And to top it off, English, by your own statement, is your first language so your terrible spelling and grammar isn't even justified in terms of being a dodgy translation!
And you obviously still haven't learnt even the basic concepts of quantum mechanics because the electron doesn't have a velocity moving around the nucleus, it isn't an orbitting object in the same way planets are around the sun.
It staggers me that you can put in so much time and effort into complaining about things you don't understand, all the while thinking you understand them, and then ask a question like that. You obviously just LOVE ****ing your time down the drain, reading papers you don't understand about quantum computing, which you don't understand, and then whining about them and not understanding the explainations you're then provided by people like me, who end up getting a warning for getting exaspered by people like you.
And to top it off, English, by your own statement, is your first language so your terrible spelling and grammar isn't even justified in terms of being a dodgy translation!
Ok, maybe electrons don't flying around nuclear... But they still have some usual distance from nuclear, right? So I need to know hot to calculate this distance?
I believe, that it is very hard work, so maybe some links about it how is finded. Supose I have nuclear with 17 protons and 17 neutrons. At that distance is each electron? It's obviuosly that there must be 17 electrons or +-1 or so
I believe that electrons distance to nuclear can't be random and obey to some law, but I admit that possible that just imposible to knkow electron position on orbit, but possible to know electron orbit and how much fit electrons in orbit...
There probably need to solve schroedinger equation and maybe to use some quantum number which maybe was invented through schrodinger equation...
I believe, that it is very hard work, so maybe some links about it how is finded. Supose I have nuclear with 17 protons and 17 neutrons. At that distance is each electron? It's obviuosly that there must be 17 electrons or +-1 or so
I believe that electrons distance to nuclear can't be random and obey to some law, but I admit that possible that just imposible to knkow electron position on orbit, but possible to know electron orbit and how much fit electrons in orbit...
There probably need to solve schroedinger equation and maybe to use some quantum number which maybe was invented through schrodinger equation...
The electrons don't even exist as particles inside the atom. Instead, they are "electron clouds". Plus, you would not be able to measure a completely accurate distance from the nucleus, due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
- Gehn
- Gehn
Electron obey like wave, which length and size is about 0.1-1nm, right? But how then describe atom? Or just need to measure spectrum of emited light frenquency and that's all need to know? Why then need calculate schoringer equation? Just look at emition/absorbtion spectrum of each nuclear combination and you everything will know about atom. And why in Borh model H atom there is radius between electron and nuclear? And energetic levels? What is point if you know it? You can know it by measuring it experimentaly... BTW, how much times in Borh H atom is electromagnetic waves lenght or frenquency diferent between the ground state and excited state of atom? 
For hydrogen atom ground level electron distance is 5*10^{-11} m. For second level 5*10^{-11} *2^2=2*10^{-10} m. For third electron level, distance is 5-10^{-11}*3^2=4.5*10^{-10} m, and so on. 4^2, 5^2... So I this can explain without any math. This is becouse force between positive and negative depending on distance^2, becouse space is atracted with charge in 2D.
For hydrogen atom ground level electron distance is 5*10^{-11} m. For second level 5*10^{-11} *2^2=2*10^{-10} m. For third electron level, distance is 5-10^{-11}*3^2=4.5*10^{-10} m, and so on. 4^2, 5^2... So I this can explain without any math. This is becouse force between positive and negative depending on distance^2, becouse space is atracted with charge in 2D.
R[1/(n^2)-1/(k^2)] is emited frenquency for H atom. Where R=3.2*10^15 Hz. For example if electron jump from second level to five (is it possible to skip one level???), then emitted frenquency will be 3.2*10^15 *[1/2^2-1/5^2]=3.2*10^15 *(21/100)=6.72*10^14 Hz. From first state to second emited frenquency will be 3.2*10^15 *(1-1/4)=2.4*10^15 Hz.
I calculate how much times frenquency is bigger when electron jump from first to second level than from second to third:
(1-1/4)/(1/4-1/9)=5.4
(1/4-1/9)/(1/9-1/16)=2.857
(1/9-1/16)/(1/16-1/25)=2.16
(1/16-1/25)/(1/25-1/36)=1.84
So how we can see frenquency depending very strange, but prety simple... I think it depending by classic physics, without any tricks and proprtionaly with square electron radius...
I calculate how much times frenquency is bigger when electron jump from first to second level than from second to third:
(1-1/4)/(1/4-1/9)=5.4
(1/4-1/9)/(1/9-1/16)=2.857
(1/9-1/16)/(1/16-1/25)=2.16
(1/16-1/25)/(1/25-1/36)=1.84
So how we can see frenquency depending very strange, but prety simple... I think it depending by classic physics, without any tricks and proprtionaly with square electron radius...
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
Electron obey like wave, which length and size is about 0.1-1nm, right?
No. Their associated wavelength depends on their momentum.
No. Their associated wavelength depends on their momentum.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
Or just need to measure spectrum of emited light frenquency and that's all need to know? Why then need calculate schoringer equation?
Because there's more to the atom than just emission spectra. The Schrodinger equation explains the shape of orbits. They aren't all spheres. Most of them are other shapes.
I did mention Legendre polynomials to you. You obviously didn't look them up. They are the answer to this thread. You even once linked to a picture of the Schrodinger equation in spherical coordinates, asking me if it could be solved. I told you it could for the Coulomb potential.
Learn some physics.
I did mention Legendre polynomials to you. You obviously didn't look them up. They are the answer to this thread. You even once linked to a picture of the Schrodinger equation in spherical coordinates, asking me if it could be solved. I told you it could for the Coulomb potential.
Learn some physics.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
Just look at emition/absorbtion spectrum of each nuclear combination and you everything will know about atom.
Are you that stupid?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
And why in Borh model H atom there is radius between electron and nuclear?
Because it's the average distance an electron will be found at over many measurements, in the ground state.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
What is point if you know it? You can know it by measuring it experimentaly
Because there's more to the atom than that. It's like saying "Why bother developing relativity when you know how the planets go around the Sun".
Why bother with any science when we can just measure things?
Why bother with any science when we can just measure things?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 05:57 PM)
I think it depending by classic physics
Then you'd be wrong.
about this http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LegendrePolynomial.html
So electron wavelenght dependign on velocity?
What's more? They not sperical, so what? Scrodinger equation don't have practical usfulnes, becouse all spectrs can be measured with experiments and thus can be knonw...
Yes, I just read, electron H orbit is avarage... Maybe only radius are important in chemistry electrons orbits... When need know atom size and coloumb interaction. Why when atom absorbing photon, why he don't emiting it sudenly, rapidly? but only after some time (about 10^{-8} s, or 10^{-3} s)? Can chemical reactions be described without schrodinger equation, but only based on experiments? Why some atoms have stronger covalentic force than another?
So electron wavelenght dependign on velocity?
QUOTE
Because there's more to the atom than just emission spectra. The Schrodinger equation explains the shape of orbits. They aren't all spheres. Most of them are other shapes.
What's more? They not sperical, so what? Scrodinger equation don't have practical usfulnes, becouse all spectrs can be measured with experiments and thus can be knonw...
Yes, I just read, electron H orbit is avarage... Maybe only radius are important in chemistry electrons orbits... When need know atom size and coloumb interaction. Why when atom absorbing photon, why he don't emiting it sudenly, rapidly? but only after some time (about 10^{-8} s, or 10^{-3} s)? Can chemical reactions be described without schrodinger equation, but only based on experiments? Why some atoms have stronger covalentic force than another?
DavidD, what are you posting in this topic for, anyway? You don't need homework help. Maybe some other kind of help, but you shouldn't pollute this topic with your excreble stupidity.
DavidD.
I find it amusing that you abuse people, then beg them for help.
Some things for you to look up:
Aufbau Principle.
Bohr Radius.
And in answer to your question. No, you can not do it without the Schroedinger wave equation, because orbital shape is curcially important in chemistry.
There are many things in chemistry that can not be explained without the schroedinger wave equation, and some of the 'consequences' or corrolaries of that (for example, molecular orbital theory).
I find it amusing that you abuse people, then beg them for help.
Some things for you to look up:
Aufbau Principle.
Bohr Radius.
And in answer to your question. No, you can not do it without the Schroedinger wave equation, because orbital shape is curcially important in chemistry.
There are many things in chemistry that can not be explained without the schroedinger wave equation, and some of the 'consequences' or corrolaries of that (for example, molecular orbital theory).
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 08:11 PM)
So electron wavelenght dependign on velocity?
The Legendre polynomials are nothing to do with electron velocity. The electron doesn't even have a well defined velocity in orbits!
The Legendre polynomials are nothing to do with electron velocity. The electron doesn't even have a well defined velocity in orbits!
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 08:11 PM)
What's more? They not sperical, so what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electron_orbitals.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electron_orbitals.svg
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 08:11 PM)
crodinger equation don't have practical usfulnes, becouse all spectrs can be measured with experiments and thus can be knonw...
Because there's more applications to physics than just electron orbits.
The Schrodinger equation is used to derive the S matrix in all quantum field theory interactions and quantum field theory explains all non-gravitational particle interactions, relativistic or not, ever seen.
I honestly am amazed you manage to stumble from one day to the next. English is your first language but you have the spelling and grammar of a 5 year old whose just been involved in a major road traffic accident. Do you manage to dress yourself in the mornings?
Please, please, please tell me you don't have children. I hope to God you haven't managed to reproduce. Your idiocy has managed to waste enough natural resources already.
Oh, my!
Do you think he got it?
I'll put on my turf accountant's hat for inquiries...
The Schrodinger equation is used to derive the S matrix in all quantum field theory interactions and quantum field theory explains all non-gravitational particle interactions, relativistic or not, ever seen.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 15 2008, 08:11 PM)
Why when atom absorbing photon, why he don't emiting it sudenly, rapidly??
Why don't you learn some physics and so learn the answer?
I find it funny you give me a negative feedback saying I don't know any quantum physics. I am constantly having to teach you quantum physics. I am paid by professors to teach it to undergraduates. I have a degree and masters in it from Cambridge. I am a PhD student in string theory, a relativistic quantum physics topic. Time and again I have proven I am not only competant at quantum physics, I'm ****ing good at it.
But you, a complete ****, think that your utter ignorance in it is somehow correct. You admit you don't know any quantum physics. You don't understand even the most basic equation. You don't uderstand quantum computers. You don't understand the Schrodinger equation. You don't understand Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day I do something which involves the Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day.
How in the name of **** do you think you know anything about it and how the **** do you think you can rate my knowledge in it? Do you honestly think you can justify any of your claims?
I honestly am amazed you manage to stumble from one day to the next. English is your first language but you have the spelling and grammar of a 5 year old whose just been involved in a major road traffic accident. Do you manage to dress yourself in the mornings?
Please, please, please tell me you don't have children. I hope to God you haven't managed to reproduce. Your idiocy has managed to waste enough natural resources already.
I find it funny you give me a negative feedback saying I don't know any quantum physics. I am constantly having to teach you quantum physics. I am paid by professors to teach it to undergraduates. I have a degree and masters in it from Cambridge. I am a PhD student in string theory, a relativistic quantum physics topic. Time and again I have proven I am not only competant at quantum physics, I'm ****ing good at it.
But you, a complete ****, think that your utter ignorance in it is somehow correct. You admit you don't know any quantum physics. You don't understand even the most basic equation. You don't uderstand quantum computers. You don't understand the Schrodinger equation. You don't understand Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day I do something which involves the Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day.
How in the name of **** do you think you know anything about it and how the **** do you think you can rate my knowledge in it? Do you honestly think you can justify any of your claims?
I honestly am amazed you manage to stumble from one day to the next. English is your first language but you have the spelling and grammar of a 5 year old whose just been involved in a major road traffic accident. Do you manage to dress yourself in the mornings?
Please, please, please tell me you don't have children. I hope to God you haven't managed to reproduce. Your idiocy has managed to waste enough natural resources already.
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+)
But you, a complete ****, think that your utter ignorance in it is somehow correct. You admit you don't know any quantum physics. You don't understand even the most basic equation. You don't uderstand quantum computers. You don't understand the Schrodinger equation. You don't understand Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day I do something which involves the Pauli matrices. Every ****ing day.
Bravo AlphaNumeric!
Bravo AlphaNumeric!
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Mar 15 2008, 06:38 PM)
I honestly am amazed you manage to stumble from one day to the next. English is your first language but you have the spelling and grammar of a 5 year old whose just been involved in a major road traffic accident. Do you manage to dress yourself in the mornings?
Please, please, please tell me you don't have children. I hope to God you haven't managed to reproduce. Your idiocy has managed to waste enough natural resources already.
Oh, my!
Do you think he got it?
I'll put on my turf accountant's hat for inquiries...
You could check this one too, David.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital
" An atomic orbital is a mathematical function that describes the wave-like behavior of an electron in an atom. The region in which an electron may be found around a single atom in a particular energy state can be calculated from this function. The term "orbital" has become known as either the "mathematical function" or the "region" generated with the function.[1] Specifically, atomic orbitals are the possible quantum states of an individual electron in the electron cloud around a single atom, as described by the function. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital
" An atomic orbital is a mathematical function that describes the wave-like behavior of an electron in an atom. The region in which an electron may be found around a single atom in a particular energy state can be calculated from this function. The term "orbital" has become known as either the "mathematical function" or the "region" generated with the function.[1] Specifically, atomic orbitals are the possible quantum states of an individual electron in the electron cloud around a single atom, as described by the function. "
Alphanumeric,
you don't understand about quantum computer, becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist (or almost each theoretic).
So chemical reactions depending on orbits shape? Maybe also on rotation this shape? Why in chemistry textbooks nothere saying about schrodinger equation, but every chemical reaction is knonw without schrodinger equation? And also I was asking how to calculate how much electrons must be in each orbit (even if this orbit is only roughly electron flying possition...)? Don't say me that electrons don't have orbits, becouse everythere is writen that in first orbit is 2 lectrons in second 6 or somthing like this...
you don't understand about quantum computer, becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist (or almost each theoretic).
So chemical reactions depending on orbits shape? Maybe also on rotation this shape? Why in chemistry textbooks nothere saying about schrodinger equation, but every chemical reaction is knonw without schrodinger equation? And also I was asking how to calculate how much electrons must be in each orbit (even if this orbit is only roughly electron flying possition...)? Don't say me that electrons don't have orbits, becouse everythere is writen that in first orbit is 2 lectrons in second 6 or somthing like this...
QUOTE (DavidD+)
you don't understand about quantum computer,
You don't understand anything, period.
They do exist, you idiot. He's proven that already, but you don't seem to get it, do you?
You don't understand anything, period.
QUOTE
becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist
They do exist, you idiot. He's proven that already, but you don't seem to get it, do you?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 07:25 AM)
you don't understand about quantum computer, becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist (or almost each theoretic).
I know people who both do the theory and building of quantum computers. I walk past their offices every day. They exist.
I know people who both do the theory and building of quantum computers. I walk past their offices every day. They exist.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 07:25 AM)
Why in chemistry textbooks nothere saying about schrodinger equation, but every chemical reaction is knonw without schrodinger equation?
Because once you have the equations for the electron orbits, you don't need to know the Schrodinger equation. You'll find that chemists, good chemists, do know the Schrodinger equation.
Besides, how many chemistry textbooks have you read? You haven't read any physics ones, because despite your whining you didn't know any solutions to the Schrodinger equation existed, despite physics textbooks having loads of them!
Besides, how many chemistry textbooks have you read? You haven't read any physics ones, because despite your whining you didn't know any solutions to the Schrodinger equation existed, despite physics textbooks having loads of them!
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 07:25 AM)
nd also I was asking how to calculate how much electrons must be in each orbit (even if this orbit is only roughly electron flying possition...)
Pauli exclusion principle mean anything to you?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 07:25 AM)
Don't say me that electrons don't have orbits, becouse everythere is writen that in first orbit is 2 lectrons in second 6 or somthing like this...
If you understood the associated Legendre equation and how it relates to the Schrodinger equation, you'd be able to answer that question. You'd see how the mathematics of spherical coordinates explains how to know the number of electrons in each 'shell' and orbital within each shell. You wouldn't have to do any experiments because you'd know how to compute it. That's the power of having the Schrodinger equation. Noone has ever measured what the 200'th electron's orbital would look like because we've never made an atom with 200 protons in it, but we know what it would look like because we can compute the orbital shape from the Schrodinger equation.
That's how physics works.
Now, do you understand how to solve the associated Legendre equation and why it relates to electron orbitals or am I going to have to show you? But only if you answer this question :
Do you accept that you do not know any quantum physics? Do you accept I do know about plenty of quantum physics?
That's how physics works.
Now, do you understand how to solve the associated Legendre equation and why it relates to electron orbitals or am I going to have to show you? But only if you answer this question :
Do you accept that you do not know any quantum physics? Do you accept I do know about plenty of quantum physics?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 07:25 PM)
Alphanumeric,
you don't understand about quantum computer, becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist (or almost each theoretic).
So chemical reactions depending on orbits shape? Maybe also on rotation this shape? Why in chemistry textbooks nothere saying about schrodinger equation, but every chemical reaction is knonw without schrodinger equation? And also I was asking how to calculate how much electrons must be in each orbit (even if this orbit is only roughly electron flying possition...)? Don't say me that electrons don't have orbits, becouse everythere is writen that in first orbit is 2 lectrons in second 6 or somthing like this...
Because that's the sort of thing that you find out about in Advanced chemistry.
You generally don't get told about molecular orbital theory and how it relates into the schroedinger wave equation until your 2nd or 3rd year at university.
Did you look any of the things up that I suggested?
you don't understand about quantum computer, becouse any quantum computer theoretic would say you that it doesn't exist (or almost each theoretic).
So chemical reactions depending on orbits shape? Maybe also on rotation this shape? Why in chemistry textbooks nothere saying about schrodinger equation, but every chemical reaction is knonw without schrodinger equation? And also I was asking how to calculate how much electrons must be in each orbit (even if this orbit is only roughly electron flying possition...)? Don't say me that electrons don't have orbits, becouse everythere is writen that in first orbit is 2 lectrons in second 6 or somthing like this...
Because that's the sort of thing that you find out about in Advanced chemistry.
You generally don't get told about molecular orbital theory and how it relates into the schroedinger wave equation until your 2nd or 3rd year at university.
Did you look any of the things up that I suggested?
Aufbau Principle - Uses Hunds Rule, Madelung rule and the Pauli Exclusion principle.
Molecular Orbital Theory (not that I expect you to be able to follow that).
Molecular Orbital Theory (not that I expect you to be able to follow that).
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Mar 16 2008, 08:22 PM)
Because once you have the equations for the electron orbits, you don't need to know the Schrodinger equation. You'll find that chemists, good chemists, do know the Schrodinger equation.
Besides, how many chemistry textbooks have you read?
Being an actual applied chemist that does actual applied chemistry for a living, I can vouch for the validity of this statement.
I can also posit that the answer to that question is "As many as he has read physics textbooks"
You know, until this discussion, I had never bothered looking to see if Wikipedia had an entry on Molecular Orbital Theory.
Besides, how many chemistry textbooks have you read?
Being an actual applied chemist that does actual applied chemistry for a living, I can vouch for the validity of this statement.
I can also posit that the answer to that question is "As many as he has read physics textbooks"
You know, until this discussion, I had never bothered looking to see if Wikipedia had an entry on Molecular Orbital Theory.
Molecular equationlooks prety simple.
So what? Do those people was said to you that quantum computer exist???? NO!!! They just Trying to build it. Just trying... Unsuccessfully...
I accept, that I don't understand quantum physics, but I know that qunatum computer without entanglement between atom or electrons can't work, and that entanglement experimentaly between atoms or electrons wasn't estimated, observed or observed very weakly, too weakly, that don't enough for any speed up...
I fyou say you can explain Legendre equation then it must be prety simple...
IS this is http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/index.cfm equation?
User posted image: http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif
I am not very familiar with advanced math of diferentiation, but it's looks 2 minutes work to find solution for profesional...
QUOTE
I know people who both do the theory and building of quantum computers. I walk past their offices every day. They exist.
So what? Do those people was said to you that quantum computer exist???? NO!!! They just Trying to build it. Just trying... Unsuccessfully...
I accept, that I don't understand quantum physics, but I know that qunatum computer without entanglement between atom or electrons can't work, and that entanglement experimentaly between atoms or electrons wasn't estimated, observed or observed very weakly, too weakly, that don't enough for any speed up...
I fyou say you can explain Legendre equation then it must be prety simple...
IS this is http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/index.cfm equation?
User posted image: http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif
I am not very familiar with advanced math of diferentiation, but it's looks 2 minutes work to find solution for profesional...
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 09:22 PM)
Molecular equationlooks prety simple.
So what? Do those people was said to you that quantum computer exist???? NO!!! They just Trying to build it. Just trying... Unsuccessfully...
I accept, that I don't understand quantum physics, but I know that qunatum computer without entanglement between atom or electrons can't work, and that entanglement experimentaly between atoms or electrons wasn't estimated, observed or observed very weakly, too weakly, that don't enough for any speed up...
I fyou say you can explain Legendre equation then it must be prety simple...
IS this is http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/index.cfm equation?
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif'>http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif</a>
I am not very familiar with advanced math of diferentiation, but it's looks 2 minutes work to find solution for profesional...
You're funny!
They've actually only solved it for Hydrogen.
So what? Do those people was said to you that quantum computer exist???? NO!!! They just Trying to build it. Just trying... Unsuccessfully...
I accept, that I don't understand quantum physics, but I know that qunatum computer without entanglement between atom or electrons can't work, and that entanglement experimentaly between atoms or electrons wasn't estimated, observed or observed very weakly, too weakly, that don't enough for any speed up...
I fyou say you can explain Legendre equation then it must be prety simple...
IS this is http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/index.cfm equation?
User posted image: <a target='_blank' href='http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif'>http://www.efunda.com/math/legendre/images/LegendreDE.gif</a>
I am not very familiar with advanced math of diferentiation, but it's looks 2 minutes work to find solution for profesional...
You're funny!
They've actually only solved it for Hydrogen.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 09:22 AM)
Molecular equationlooks prety simple
Like you understand it. You think the Schrodinger equation looks complicated.
Like you understand it.
You think the Schrodinger equation looks complicated. QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 09:22 AM)
So what? Do those people was said to you that quantum computer exist???? NO!!! They just Trying to build it. Just trying... Unsuccessfully...
No, they have actually built one.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 09:22 AM)
I fyou say you can explain Legendre equation then it must be prety simple...
It's simple enough to be taught to students before the Schrodinger equation.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 09:22 AM)
I am not very familiar with advanced math of diferentiation, but it's looks 2 minutes work to find solution for profesional...
ASSOCIATED Legendre polynomial.
Do you udnerstand how this relates to the Schrodinger equation?
Tell me, how old are you?
Do you udnerstand how this relates to the Schrodinger equation?
Tell me, how old are you?
So solve this equation (1-x^2)y''-2xy'+n(n+1)y=0. Or any over legendre.
To solve schrionger equation electrons motion for He atom I believe is very hard.
Which one?
No I don't understand how it realates to schroginer equation.
To solve schrionger equation electrons motion for He atom I believe is very hard.
QUOTE
No, they have actually built one.
Which one?
No I don't understand how it realates to schroginer equation.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 10:48 AM)
No I don't understand how it realates to schroginer equation.
I don't understand how you're related to Homo sapiens.
I don't understand how you're related to Homo sapiens.
QUOTE (Username+Mar 16 2008, 10:57 AM)
I don't understand how you're related to Homo sapiens.
Becouse you don't understand schrodinger equation too.
Becouse you don't understand schrodinger equation too.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:02 AM)
Becouse you don't understand schrodinger equation too.
Please FOAD impudent ring-piece thing.
Please FOAD impudent ring-piece thing.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:48 AM)
So solve this equation (1-x^2)y''-2xy'+n(n+1)y=0. Or any over legendre.
You just write a polynomial ansatz, get a recurrence relation for the coefficents and say that you need a finite solution. This gives you
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/0/a/70a...331b0dabe51.png
You just write a polynomial ansatz, get a recurrence relation for the coefficents and say that you need a finite solution. This gives you
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/0/a/70a...331b0dabe51.png
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:48 AM)
To solve schrionger equation electrons motion for He atom I believe is very hard.
That doesn't mean you cannot solve it for the Hydrogen atom.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:48 AM)
Which one?
A 2 or 3 bit quantum computer. How many times have I linked you to papers talking about actual quantum computers, which have been made?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:48 AM)
No I don't understand how it realates to schroginer equation.
But then there's a lot of things you don't understand.
I'll ask again : How old are you?
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
That doesn't mean you cannot solve it for the Hydrogen atom.
For hydrogen atom enough borh model.
Your link image, looks prety easy, but schrodinger equation about He atom probably even you can't grabps?
So you don't solve my equation, but just found solution? And about what is those equation, solution? About hydrogen atom? Isn't it enough deeply wasn't studed by N Borh? Exactly what those pictures describes?
I'll ask again : How old are you?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 11:48 AM)
Becouse you don't understand schrodinger equation too.
You don't either.
QUOTE
A 2 or 3 bit quantum computer. How many times have I linked you to papers talking about actual quantum computers, which have been made?
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| A 2 or 3 bit quantum computer. How many times have I linked you to papers talking about actual quantum computers, which have been made? |
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
That doesn't mean you cannot solve it for the Hydrogen atom.
For hydrogen atom enough borh model.
Your link image, looks prety easy, but schrodinger equation about He atom probably even you can't grabps?
So you don't solve my equation, but just found solution? And about what is those equation, solution? About hydrogen atom? Isn't it enough deeply wasn't studed by N Borh? Exactly what those pictures describes?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 02:04 PM)
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
That is still a quantum computer.
That is still a quantum computer.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 02:04 PM)
For hydrogen atom enough borh model.
Except that the Schrodinger equation applies to so much more than just the Hydrogen atom.
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 02:04 PM)
Your link image, looks prety easy
Yet you posted this here and asked if I knew how to solve it.
The equation I just posted, with x = cos(theta), solves that equation in terms of the latitude angle. So it's not 'easy' for you, because you didn't realise how to solve the Schrodinger equation to get it.
Why are you such a pathetic liar?
The equation I just posted, with x = cos(theta), solves that equation in terms of the latitude angle. So it's not 'easy' for you, because you didn't realise how to solve the Schrodinger equation to get it.
Why are you such a pathetic liar?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 02:04 PM)
So you don't solve my equation, but just found solution
No, I know how to solve it. It's easy. I even explained how. Seperation of variables, then solve the theta equation, assuming a polynomial solution which is finite.
It's taught to Cambridge 2nd years in their 'methods' course. Quantum mechanics is then taught the following term. I'm now in my 6th year, teaching this stuff to 2nd years.
Again and again and again you just spout ****.
Do you understand that I'm a PhD student in quantum mechanics?
Do you understand that I studied this stuff at Cambridge?
Do you understand that I now teach this material?
But you admit, that it dosen't giving speed-up?
Do you practices at home, to better solve schrodinger equations? Or you enough practices when teaching and checking homeworks. One physic was saying me that ot solve hydrogen atom electron motion Schrodinger equaion is very hard and about it is book with 100 pages. I bet that nobody understand this schrodinger equation except scrodinger, but just sharape and calulate or copy paste... Becouse it's prety hard, even for computer for big atoms... And usfulnes of schrodinger equations I think is also doubful. If somedy teaching chemistry and schrodinger equation, it's don't means that chemistry can't live without schrodinger equation. Schrodinger equation is more theroetical subject like quark color or quantum number...
BTW, I think you have stupidity gene, becosue claiming about this quantum computer
It's taught to Cambridge 2nd years in their 'methods' course. Quantum mechanics is then taught the following term. I'm now in my 6th year, teaching this stuff to 2nd years.
Again and again and again you just spout ****.
Do you understand that I'm a PhD student in quantum mechanics?
Do you understand that I studied this stuff at Cambridge?
Do you understand that I now teach this material?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 16 2008, 02:04 PM)
Exactly what those pictures describes?
So you find it easy but you don't understand it?
God you're pathetic.
How old are you?
God you're pathetic.
How old are you?
QUOTE
That is still a quantum computer.
But you admit, that it dosen't giving speed-up?
Do you practices at home, to better solve schrodinger equations? Or you enough practices when teaching and checking homeworks. One physic was saying me that ot solve hydrogen atom electron motion Schrodinger equaion is very hard and about it is book with 100 pages. I bet that nobody understand this schrodinger equation except scrodinger, but just sharape and calulate or copy paste... Becouse it's prety hard, even for computer for big atoms... And usfulnes of schrodinger equations I think is also doubful. If somedy teaching chemistry and schrodinger equation, it's don't means that chemistry can't live without schrodinger equation. Schrodinger equation is more theroetical subject like quark color or quantum number...
BTW, I think you have stupidity gene, becosue claiming about this quantum computer
QUOTE (AlphaNumeric+Mar 16 2008, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE (DavidD+)
BTW, I think you have stupidity gene, becosue claiming about this quantum computer
Ironic?
Ironic?
QUOTE (DavidD+Mar 17 2008, 02:04 AM)
You talking about single photon quantum computer?
For hydrogen atom enough borh model.
Your link image, looks prety easy, but schrodinger equation about He atom probably even you can't grabps?
So you don't solve my equation, but just found solution? And about what is those equation, solution? About hydrogen atom? Isn't it enough deeply wasn't studed by N Borh? Exactly what those pictures describes?
Bohrs model is insufficient, in some regards, inaccurate.
The 1 electron solution to the Schrodinger wave equation provides us with a good generalized starting point.
More over, understanding the nature and shape of Atomic orbitals allows us to make predictions about molecular orbitals and molecular orbital theory, without which we would not be able to explain some very fundamental things, like, for example, the shape, stability, and reactivity of benzene, why Mustard gas works, extened Pi bond networks, the conductivity of graphite, and many aspects of transition metal, or organometallic chemistry.
For hydrogen atom enough borh model.
Your link image, looks prety easy, but schrodinger equation about He atom probably even you can't grabps?
So you don't solve my equation, but just found solution? And about what is those equation, solution? About hydrogen atom? Isn't it enough deeply wasn't studed by N Borh? Exactly what those pictures describes?
Bohrs model is insufficient, in some regards, inaccurate.
The 1 electron solution to the Schrodinger wave equation provides us with a good generalized starting point.
More over, understanding the nature and shape of Atomic orbitals allows us to make predictions about molecular orbitals and molecular orbital theory, without which we would not be able to explain some very fundamental things, like, for example, the shape, stability, and reactivity of benzene, why Mustard gas works, extened Pi bond networks, the conductivity of graphite, and many aspects of transition metal, or organometallic chemistry.
DavidD: Tell me something, when the technicians installed your computer for you, did they leave it running, and tell you not to touch a certain button? Because it amazes me that you can turn your computer on each day.
QUOTE (Trippy+Mar 16 2008, 06:06 PM)
DavidD: Tell me something, when the technicians installed your computer for you, did they leave it running, and tell you not to touch a certain button? Because it amazes me that you can turn your computer on each day.
It amazes me that he can even find the "On" button on his toaster in the morning
It amazes me that he can even find the "On" button on his toaster in the morning
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