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Quantum_Conundrum
The Canadian model calls for the new wave to develop into a T-8.0, Category 5 hurricane, probably 185 to 190mph sustained...

896mb headed into the eastern Bahamas....

This is stronger than Camille or Katrina ever became.

Yes, that is 896mb surface low, not 996. You can zoom in to your heart's content till you see it....

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/model_forec...SIC@012_....jpg


Yes, this is just a model, but this would be a nightmare for Florida, the Bahamas, and potentially the Gulf, due to the Ridge that is remaining in place even on the model.

I realize this is unlikely, but this is one of the more reliable models, and the potential intensity maps agree that this is easily possible, given current water temps and predicted water temps. The water is likely to be a degree Celsius warmer in that region by the tim the storm gets there, i.e. 30C widespread...

http://wxmaps.org/pix/hurpot.html


If this model run verifies, it will easily be one of the worst mega-disasters in the modern world...
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 29 2011, 08:33 PM)
Yes, that is 896mb surface low, not 996. You can zoom in to your heart's content till you see it....




No, it was 996.

This morning it's a bit easier to read and it's projected to be 990 to 994 (6 days from now).

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/data/model_...SIC@012_132.jpg

What the area of Low pressure looks like this morning:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo/gtwo_atl_sub....?area1#contents
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (adoucette+Jul 30 2011, 08:16 AM)
No, it was 996.

This morning it's a bit easier to read and it's projected to be 990 to 994 (6 days from now).

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/data/model_...SIC@012_132.jpg

What the area of Low pressure looks like this morning:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo/gtwo_atl_sub....?area1#contents

I agree most of the models backed off of it on the newer runs, and I know about the new run, because I've already looked at it.

I disagree what that map said yesterday, because the bolded black line is at least doubled, and that would imply below 980mb, but since the second digit was definitely a 9, then the first digit would only make sense as an 8.

It is also unfortunate that an Island is exactly in the way of the 8/9 to further complicate reading it.

this is yesterday's run, need to zoom in on it and see, before it gets updated.


http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/model_forec...SIC@012_....jpg

I'm telling you, it's an 8.

See how the BOLDED lineS near the center are STACKED?

One bolded line would be 1000mb line, 2 or more bolded would be 980mb or less.

Since it's two or more bolded, the real number must have been less than 980mb, and since the second didgit is a 9, then the first digit must be an 8.



I guess it doesn't matter much now anyway, since all of the models backed off of it by a good 10 to 20mph anyway, but I just don't know.

The potential intensity map is doing just what I expected. The blues darkened up ahead of the storm track.

The Invest is going to hit a t-7.5 to t-8 predictor later today and over night, so we should see rapid intensification of some kind at that time.


http://wxmaps.org/pix/hurpot.html


Since it's already got a decent anti-cyclone aloft, I'm calling category 1 hurricane status by tomorrow morning.
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 30 2011, 11:16 AM)
I disagree what that map said yesterday, because the bolded black line is at least doubled, and that would imply below 980mb, but since the second digit was definitely a 9, then the first digit would only make sense as an 8.


QC, there was nothing that changed so drastically in the Atlantic basin as to cause a projected 100 mb increase in that Low in one day.

Face it, it wasn't 896.
Quantum_Conundrum
Ok, why it's gonna be a BIG storm too, regardless of intensity.

This wave is imbedded in a monsoon trough, similar to Alex from last year.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201107301200


You can see how big this air mass really is using vertically integrated liquid, or total precipable water maps, and watch how the low is basicly pulling in the entire Inter-Tropical Convergeance Zone, even absorbing some energy from the southern Hemisphere...

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01104230738.GIF


What we have here is a synoptic scale surface low.

One of it's biggest challenges will be it's own size, as it will be difficult at times for it to hold itself together over such a large scale...


If you can't find the links above.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL912011


See for yourself...
adoucette
I saw for myself.
It never got anywhere near 896.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201107300600
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (adoucette+Jul 30 2011, 11:11 AM)
I saw for myself.
It never got anywhere near 896.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201107300600

Yes, well, that is a different model entirely.

That takes it down to 961mb, which is a hell of a lot lower than any 996mb anyway. That's a 89kts/102mph hurricane at peak....


Modles often have a lot of divergeance on potential intensity. Several of the best models currently differ by as much as 20mph for peak intensity


http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/tatl/flash-rgb.html


Would like to point out the synoptic characteristics of this cyclone as it is forming.

Now, on RGB satellite imagery, you can clearly see the Invest 91L (soon TD or TS,) is absorbing/advecting the ENTIRE ITCZ, with wind and moisture blowing straight out of the south from 5 to 10 degrees south of the center of circulation.

This is gonna be BIG...

IKE, Faith, Katrina, Alex, etc for similar size storms...
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 30 2011, 02:57 PM)
Yes, well, that is a different model entirely.

That takes it down to 961mb, which is a hell of a lot lower than any 996mb anyway. That's a 89kts/102mph hurricane at peak....



Yeah, but that is FAR different than your: easily be one of the worst mega disasters in the modern world...

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
At any rate, GFDL makes it slightly smaller, weaker, and farther south.

HWRF brings it up to large cat 2, with RADIUS of tropical storm winds as ~170 miles...
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (adoucette+Jul 30 2011, 02:08 PM)
Yeah, but that is FAR different than your: easily be one of the worst mega disasters in the modern world...

Arthur

True, but that, HWRF, is currently one of the more easterly leaning model runs.

The NHC consensus track is much closer to the Bahamas, which is a more favorable environment.

The GFDL actually takes it much farther to the south over Hispaniola.
adoucette
It is STILL not a reasonable conclusion that this storm could easily be one of the worst mega disasters in the modern world
Quantum_Conundrum
Just for S & Gs.

ftp://ftp.tpc.ncep.noaa.gov/atcf/stext/11...L9111_ships.txt

SHIPS intensity, text format...

TIME (HR) 0 6 12 18 24 36 48 60 72 84 96 108 120
V (KT) NO LAND 30 31 34 38 43 50 59 69 72 79 83 84 82
V (KT) LAND 30 31 34 38 43 50 59 69 72 79 83 77 57
V (KT) LGE mod 30 31 32 34 37 43 50 57 63 68 73 69 53
Storm Type TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP

SHEAR (KT) 3 8 8 6 1 6 8 13 11 13 16 12 13
SHEAR ADJ (KT) 2 -2 -3 -4 0 0 -2 -3 3 -6 -2 2 1
SHEAR DIR 169 158 131 102 236 200 274 251 253 258 274 224 247
SST © 28.0 28.3 28.4 28.6 28.6 28.6 28.7 28.8 28.9 28.9 28.8 28.7 28.7
POT. INT. (KT) 139 143 144 147 146 146 147 149 150 150 149 147 147
ADJ. POT. INT. 145 146 146 148 146 144 144 143 144 145 142 138 137



Forecasted shear adjusted as ZERO from 24 to 36 hours, just as the center of circulation will be passing over the max intensity sweetspot between 50w and 60w.

This coresponds to 146kts potential intensity, according to this model, though actually forecasted as only 50kts at that time...



The reality is, the models are very, very bad when it comes to "actual" maximum intensity.

The map published by Dr. Kerry's associates continues to show somewhere between 150kts to 165kts maximum intensity in that region, 50w to 60w, and all the way north to 30n.

Not saying it would definitely reach maximum, but....

... what better time to reach maximum than when shear is zero?!

Maybe it eats some dry air and chokes, or maybe the anti-cyclone doesn't stack right....but if it stacks this thing is off to the races...
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 30 2011, 11:16 AM)
Since it's already got a decent anti-cyclone aloft, I'm calling category 1 hurricane status by tomorrow morning.

Nope.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01107310600.GIF

Projection 120 hours out

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/data/model_...SIC@012_120.jpg

Really not looking like this storm could easily be one of the worst mega disasters in the modern world
Quantum_Conundrum
Weeeeell....

Our invest has failed to impress of late, however, it has shed some of the fat, having broken away from the southern half of the ITCZ trough.


http://euler.atmos.colostate.edu/~vigh/gui...sity_early1.png

Latest GFDL model run (defective on the RAMMB page,) shows a Category 2 or 3 landfall on Hispaniola.

It then resumes at 132 hours as a rapidly intensifying Category 3 entering the Bahamas on a track which should take it into the Florida Straits.

The official forecast at this point is still a bit more of a recurve, but only AFTER a direct hit dead center on Puerto Rico, followed by a close call with Hispaniola.


So it might not be "Apocalypticane" that the earlier model run showed (whether on purpose or by accident,) but a potential Cat 3 on Hispaniola or PR, followed by entering the Bahamas and Florida Straits is not a good scenario...


The GFDL is one of the most reliable models in the 3 to 5 day range, certainly in the top 5 or 6.


Then again, this storm still isn't nearly as developed as I thought it might be by today, but tonight's diurnal maximum should be interesting nonetheless.
Quantum_Conundrum
* ATLANTIC SHIPS INTENSITY FORECAST *
* GOES AVAILABLE, OHC AVAILABLE *
* INVEST AL912011 07/31/11 06 UTC *

TIME (HR) 0 6 12 18 24 36 48 60 72 84 96 108 120
V (KT) NO LAND 30 32 36 39 43 52 63 72 80 84 86 86 85
V (KT) LAND 30 32 36 39 43 52 63 72 80 82 84 84 83
V (KT) LGE mod 30 31 33 36 40 47 54 61 70 74 78 79 78
Storm Type TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP TROP

SHEAR (KT) 3 3 6 4 6 7 8 6 16 12 14 10 13
SHEAR ADJ (KT) -2 -6 -5 1 0 -4 -7 0 -5 -2 4 1 0
SHEAR DIR 137 124 92 180 236 283 279 290 279 272 246 232 210
SST © 28.4 28.5 28.6 28.6 28.6 28.7 28.8 28.9 28.8 28.8 28.6 28.7 28.7
POT. INT. (KT) 144 145 147 146 146 147 149 151 149 149 146 147 146
ADJ. POT. INT. 146 147 148 146 145 144 145 148 144 142 137 136 133




ftp://ftp.tpc.ncep.noaa.gov/atcf/stext/11...L9111_ships.txt
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Jul 31 2011, 08:39 AM)
So it might not be "Apocalypticane" that the earlier model run showed (whether on purpose or by accident,) but a potential Cat 3 on Hispaniola or PR, followed by entering the Bahamas and Florida Straits is not a good scenario...


No it's not.
But it's still just a hurricane.
You misread the map and jumped to conclusions.
Quantum_Conundrum
Rita Hurricane Track

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._2005_track.png

Latest Early Cycle Track Guidance

http://euler.atmos.colostate.edu/~vigh/gui...rack_early1.png

The official forecast is on along a vector that is only about 10 degrees difference from Rita's vector of motion at the same coordinates.


Based on the steering layers (which will change somewhat,) IFFF the storm reaches these Coordinates as roughly a category 2 or more, then the Ridge SHOULD give it a hard push to the WEST and basically match Rita's path...


This is a weird scenario in this case, because the ridge is strong enough and oriented enough such that the stronger the storm is the more likely it will be to go WEST, which is a bit paradoxical compared to most scenarios, and is more similar to the steering of hurricanes Dean and Felix in some respects...

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...dlm1&zoom=&time


This is obviously going to change quite a bit over the next several days, so stay tuned...
Quantum_Conundrum
The banded feature ahead of the "invest" and approaching the antilles is beginning to take on some tropical characteristics of it's own.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL912011

There is even some slight evidence of an inverted wave under that convection.


It's not often you see two depressions form this close to one another simultaneously, but there is SOME mention of the possibility on a reliable forum if the leading wave can get a bit farther ahead of 91L....

This all came out of the gigantic monsoon trough from yesterday, but it broke into two seperate systems.

The leading one seems to have some mid-level vorticity, but little low level circulation.
Quantum_Conundrum
Should be interesting to see if both vortices develop...

http://www.esl.lsu.edu/animate/goes/index....pics&channel=lc
soundhertz
QUOTE
At any rate, GFDL makes it slightly smaller, weaker, and farther south.

HWRF brings it up to large cat 2, with RADIUS of tropical storm winds as ~170 miles...

It's not worth basing anything on the complex 3D HWRF; it's a great model mechanism, but just too new and rough yet. Someday. But the 3D GFDL (Global Fluid Dynamics Lab) is still the most accurate, despite it's last update in '06. Global Forecasting Service is just behind, and the Euro (UKMET) is being relied on more and more, especially for Winter storm prediction. The Euro is not as accessible, but it's medium range is second to none. Official NHS track should be depended on more than all others.

As always, the track of a storm in this position has much to do with intensity. The apocalyptic scenario greatly increases chance of recurvature. A weaker system is more likely to not get picked up. Having said this, the present view shows no strong steering. And if it gets north, it has Saharan dusty air to deal with, as well as 40mph shear. If it stays south, and moves fast, the preliminary land masses don't have much to worry about. When the HHs return, we'll actually have some empirical data for the models to chew on, and will actually have an accurate forecast track, at least compared to today.
Quantum_Conundrum
The latest GFDL takes it to 113kts/130mph...twice...

However, it had an epic fail on the forecast track, as it's first data point was a "jog" like 50 miles north, which has clearly failed to verify...

Thus the previous GFDL forecast track is probably far more reliable than the latest one...




----

Multiple low level vortices have definitely formed with this wave, and they are several degrees apart. I am wondering if we will see a fujiwhare and two seperate cyclones forming...

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL912011

The second vortex is at 11N 56W, a bit south-east of the leading convection blob. It is difficult to tell, but it may have been "ejected" by the system, or it may be a left-over remnant of the original monsoon trough's CoC...

You can clearly see it on visible satellite and RGB imagery from the NOAA site...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/flash-vis.html

Updates later.
adoucette
Not Cat 1 on Sunday morning and not on Monday morning either.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01104230600.GIF
Quantum_Conundrum
1) I did NOT misread the map.

2) The SHIPS model today has had a potential intensity on the storm being as high as 168kts.


3) Every...last...one...of the models on this storm has been wrong in the past, and will be wrong on the next cycle as well...

At this point, this storm is more likely to be a near-repeat of 2005's Emily than any of the model tracks right now....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emily_2005_track.png

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...lm1&zoom=&time=


For some reason, the models are being retarded with this storm, and giving it ridiculous recurves that simply have no basis in the actual steering layers...


http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...lm3&zoom=&time=

In order to break through that, it really WOULD need to be a 160kts hurricane...



QUOTE

Not Cat 1 on Sunday morning and not on Monday morning either.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01104230600.GIF



True, but...

A) So far on track I have actually beaten the pros every time.

cool.gif Based on the current center fix (which I identified several hours before the storm was named,) ALL of the data on the storm previously for the past several days was incorrect. Nobody's models or forecasts were correct...

C) Even the NHC missed the timing of intensification so badly that they actually had to DOWNGRADE their own percentage forecast for an entire day.




Considering I don't even get paid to do this, and considering I'm thus far more accurate on track, speed, and heading at 6 and 12 hours out than the multi-million dollar models, I don't think I've done half bad...
Guest_arthur
You DID misread the map and so far
You have totally failed in every prediction you made which might be why nobody is interested in paying you to do so.

Quantum_Conundrum
Uh, I've actually failed only on intensity forecasts.


My track forecasting is far better than the NHC so far this year.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/flash-ft.html

the center fix of the NHC, Wunderground, and Colorado state are all WRONG.

As of 2:45 UTC, based on funktop infrared satellite imagery, and the French meteorology Radar in the Antilles:

http://www.meteo.fr/temps/domtom/antilles/...nimMOSAIC2.html


The center of circulation is actually south east of where the "official" center fix ws placed at the advisory.

At 11pm EDT (3UTC)

They have it at 15.5N 62.9W.

If you look at the satellite and radar, you will find this is completely impossible, and is wrong by about a degree in both directions.

The actual center is elongated along 14.5N from 61.3W to 62.3W.

So a full degree SOUTH of the official position, and 0.2 to 1.2 degrees EAST of the official position.

Because the geniuses at Wunderground and the NHC keep getting their data from the undergrad student at Colorado state, who trusts the bugged center fix computer tool (see ling), which is clearly wrong.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01108012245.jpg


They just parrot the damn thing on every update, even when it's obviously wrong.


the elongated center of circulation is actually starting to clear up along 14.5N as I type this.

A few more hours for it to tighten up and consolidate.

And yes, this is a very big system when is still partially tapping the monsooon, so stuff happens in slow motion sometimes...
Quantum_Conundrum
And as for your snide comment about my skill level...


Let's just take the GFDL model, for comparison, I've beaten it so far every day on track, and all but one one time on intensity.


The GFDL has swapped back and forth from as far as nearly 1000 miles east of Florida as a 131mph hurricane to now fizzling out as a remnant low east of Jamaica...


To use YOUR own idiotic argument, "The atmosphere didn't change THAT much in 24 hours"...

Yes it did...

And the models are THAT bad at dealing with it.
Quantum_Conundrum
Tee hee hee...

The NHC just corrected their coordinates and moved it BACK to where I said it was this morning, from their earlier coordinates...

They had 15.5N and 64W several hours ago, which was still way too far north and west.


Now they moved it back south and east, more in line with where the track would have been based on MY position from last night...

15.3N 63.7W


And since it has been several hours between these coordinates and it still hasn't even gotten back to where they incorrectly said it was, this shows that the PROS were wrong by over 100 miles in two directions...

I should point out their coordinates are still wrong right now, at 7:30 central time, it's just they aren't quite as wrong as they were 6 and 12 hours ago.

Based on RADAR and satellite presentation, the center is STILL at 63W, as of 1145UTC, which is 0.7 east of the official coordinates.

It has managed to drift northward a few tenths, since it was moving with a heading/bearing of 10 degrees, but that was to be expected...

...thus leaving it still several tenths to the south of where it was "officially" spotted last night and earlier this morning....
Quantum_Conundrum
So anyway, the storm currently has a bearing of 0 degrees, due west, with not much in the steering layer to suggest any "jogs" or deviations.

the average bearing over the past several days has been 10 degrees or less.



I give three scenarios:


1) Low intensity (short term)

The storm will not turn north and it's closest approach to land in the near to medium term will be Jamaica.

In order to hit hispaniola, the storm would need to maintain an average bearing of 20 to 30 degrees, which it does not have.


2) Through extreme intensification into the category 2 or 3 range within the next day, the storm MIGHT obtain an average bearing of 20 to 30 degrees, bringing it into Hispaniola as a significant, even major storm. This is because the steering layers have a keyhole which the storm can pass through ONLY as a category 2 or low-end category 3.

3) High intensity

If the storm intensified ridiculously fast, like Wilma or something, during the next 24 hours, it would become too intense to pass through the keyhole, and would continue west, very much like Felix, Dean, and of course EMILY of 2005...(shocking resemblance, though this year it is a few degrees north of 2005's Emily...)


In all cases, the official forecasts from NOAA, at least up until now, would be wrong...
adoucette
You are so full of yourself you can't even see that you have posted DAYS of inaccurate predictions, one after the other.

Your "predictions"

7/29 it will easily be one of the worst mega-disasters in the modern world... <== No Way. One of the most outrageous claims you have made.
7/29 this would be a nightmare for Florida, the Bahamas, and potentially the Gulf, due to the Ridge that is remaining in place even on the model. <== A NIGHTMARE for Florida and the Bahamas remains HIGHLY UNLIKELY
7/30 so we should see rapid intensification of some kind at that time. <== WRONG, we did NOT see any rapid intensification at that time
Since it's already got a decent anti-cyclone aloft, I'm calling category 1 hurricane status by tomorrow morning. <== WRONG, not only did it not become a TC by the following morning, it wasn't a TC by the morning after that and at this point NHC isn't even giving it much chance of becoming a Hurricane at all
7/30 it's gonna be a BIG storm too, regardless of intensity <== WRONG, it's disorganized and clearly is not a BIG storm at all

QUOTE (NOAA - NHC+)
...AIR FORCE PLANE FINDS EMILY STILL POORLY ORGANIZED...

SUMMARY OF 800 AM AST...1200 UTC...INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...15.3N 63.7W ABOUT 265 MI...425 KM SE OF SAN JUAN PUERTO RICO
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...40 MPH...65 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...W OR 280 DEGREES AT 14 MPH...22 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...1007 MB...29.74 INCHES


DISCUSSION AND 48-HOUR OUTLOOK
------------------------------
DATA FROM A RECONNAISSANCE PLANE INDICATE THAT EMILY WAS A LITTLE
BIT TO THE SOUTHEAST THAN PREVIOUSLY ESTIMATED. AT 800 AM AST...
1200 UTC...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM EMILY WAS LOCATED NEAR
LATITUDE 15.3 NORTH...LONGITUDE 63.7 WEST. EMILY HAS SLOWED DOWN
AND IS NOW MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 14 MPH...22 KM/H.   A TURN
TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST WITH A GRADUAL DECREASE IN FORWARD SPEED IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.  ON THE FORECAST TRACK...THE CENTER OF EMILY WILL MOVE ACROSS THE NORTHEASTERN CARIBBEAN SEA TODAY...AND APPROACH HISPANIOLA TONIGHT AND WEDNESDAY.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS REMAIN NEAR 40 MPH...65 KM/H...WITH HIGHER GUSTS.  SOME SLOW STRENGTHENING IS POSSIBLE OVER THE NEXT DAY OR SO BEFORE EMILY INTERACTS WITH LAND.



7/30 This is gonna be BIG... IKE, Faith, Katrina, Alex, etc for similar size storms... <==So far you have been WRONG, WRONG, WRONG & WRONG
7/31 So it might not be "Apocalypticane" that the earlier model run showed (whether on purpose or by accident,) but a potential Cat 3 on Hispaniola or PR, followed by entering the Bahamas and Florida Straits is not a good scenario... <== WRONG, It's unlikely to be a CAT 1 by the time it gets to Hispaniola.
7/31 Based on the steering layers (which will change somewhat,) IFFF the storm reaches these Coordinates as roughly a category 2 or more, then the Ridge SHOULD give it a hard push to the WEST and basically match Rita's path... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._2005_track.png
<== LOL, WRONG, resulting in a new track prediction


8/1 At this point, this storm is more likely to be a near-repeat of 2005's Emily than any of the model tracks right now....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emily_2005_track.png <== Your latest prediction has it missing Hispaniola entirely and going into the Gulf, in contrast to the NHC Track (which has been accurate so far):

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

We'll see how much your call for a track that looks like Emily's beats the PROs.

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
The prediction of mine a few days ago was based on the bad data from the NHC.


More over, if you'll bother to re-read some of those posts, I gave CONDITIONAL STATEMENTS, such as "IF the storm reaches this location at such and such intensity, THEN this will happen..."

Since the "if" CONDITIONAL never happened, the "Then" is irrelevant.


===



In fact, the NHC and their models are so wrong that the storm is currently jogging about -10degrees, or slightly SOUTH of west over the past hour or so.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/flash-rgb.html


This is in agreement with their own operational guidance data for steering layers, which for some reason they keep choosing to ignore, which clearly shows the storm should maintain a W heading with occasional wobbles between +10 and -10 degrees heading...

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...lm1&zoom=&time=

I put my new center fix, as of the 1345 Satellite frame, at:

15.2N and 63.4W


This is also in close agreement with what I said previously this morning, and the CoC is beginning to finally move into range of the Puerto Rico radar to be fully resolved.

It is currently drifting SOUTH of West at about -10 degrees bearing...

Very much in agreement with the Felix/Dean or Emily 2005 comparisons.


Now to be honest, I'm not going to try to claim what happense 5 to 7 days out with this one, because the data has been so inconsistent and the models are garbage.


The models keep picking up on Meso cyclones imbedded in the feeder bands, and crap like that, instead of the whole storm, and this is why they are so inconsistent.

You realize the same models moved their tracks flip-flopping by nearly 2000miles at the 5 days out range?

6 and 12 hours ago the GFS and GFDL took it to near Jamaica as a category 1, then just died on the spot for no reason in the middle of the hurricane Goldilocks zone....now, they hook it hard north for no reason

6 hours ago, the BAMM had a scenario similar to Gustav up until landfall in Cuba, and then a hook back into florida from the Gulf side....now, instead, it takes it over hispaniola and hooks hard right in the Bahamas...for a difference of TEN DEGREES longitude and around 3 latitude for the exact same time frame....


That's how bad the models are on this storm...they simply are not initializing it properly, and even Dr. Carver on Wunderground admitted it. (Dr. Masters is on vacation, I think.)
soundhertz
Thanks Arthur. I was going to do similar, but just rolled my eyes instead. I don't know where you get the energy/gumption sometimes...

QC, the reason why NHC relocated the center, which you use as criteria to prove your alleged greater proficiency than NHC, is because any system of this level of disorganization has an undefined center, because it moves around, it wobbles, it dissipates and reforms, and sometimes what appears as the most obvious looking area to be 'center' isn't at all. Oftentimes in these disorganized systems, the center is not even over the clouds, it's off to one side spinning over open cloudless sea. While I can appreciate your enthusiasm for weather, it does not avail you in any beneficial way to be wishcasting apocalyptic scenarios from a system that was barely a wave when you wishcasted a 190 mph storm. The biggest data crunchers the world has are used for weathercasting, because the number of variables, and the fluid dynamics of those variables, provides a very daunting palette to make sense of. Please do not underestimate this; we don't even have the first real hurricane threat yet, and you are already favorably comparing your skills with very educated and tempered scientists, whom you have already dissed...I'm curious, who are you on the WU Tropical blog? Please don't tell me you are Jason...
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (soundhertz+Aug 2 2011, 10:12 AM)
Thanks Arthur. I was going to do similar, but just rolled my eyes instead. I don't know where you get the energy/gumption sometimes...

QC, the reason why NHC relocated the center, which you use as criteria to prove your alleged greater proficiency than NHC, is because any system of this level of disorganization has an undefined center, because it moves around, it wobbles, it dissipates and reforms, and sometimes what appears as the most obvious looking area to be 'center' isn't at all. Oftentimes in these disorganized systems, the center is not even over the clouds, it's off to one side spinning over open cloudless sea. While I can appreciate your enthusiasm for weather, it does not avail you in any beneficial way to be wishcasting apocalyptic scenarios from a system that was barely a wave when you wishcasted a 190 mph storm. The biggest data crunchers the world has are used for weathercasting, because the number of variables, and the fluid dynamics of those variables, provides a very daunting palette to make sense of. Please do not underestimate this; we don't even have the first real hurricane threat yet, and you are already favorably comparing your skills with very educated and tempered scientists, whom you have already dissed...I'm curious, who are you on the WU Tropical blog? Please don't tell me you are Jason...

Convenient isn't it...

http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radb...f=9999&smooth=0


The PR radar mysterious quits updating 45 minutes ago, around the time the first clear evidence appeared that the storm wasn't where they said it was....


Actually, I'm well aware of the issues of elongations, multi-vortexes, etc...

I figure I've watched around 260 Atlantic named storms in the past 20 years, from wave to finish, not counting the "duds" and other failed waves, etc...



Actually, I don't post on WU for other, non-weather-related reasons.



And I wasn't "Wishcasting" a 190mph storm.

I have the frame saved in my photo archive, and printed out, and it still says 896mb...with at least a double-nested bolded isobar (20mb increment), proving it could not have been 996mb...
soundhertz
What do you mean 'convenient'? And if you know tropical physics, then you know it's a waste of time deducing anything a week+ down the road from a disorganized collection of clouds. Do you think - even if the 896 WAS true, that NHC would look at that as anything else but an anomaly?

Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (soundhertz+Aug 2 2011, 11:54 AM)
What do you mean 'convenient'? And if you know tropical physics, then you know it's a waste of time deducing anything a week+ down the road from a disorganized collection of clouds. Do you think - even if the 896 WAS true, that NHC would look at that as anything else but an anomaly?

No, probably not...




Anyway, check this out. This is the canadian model again, which is doing some scary *** again...


http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/model_forec...SIC@012_....jpg


Does this look familiar to anyone?

Betsy?

Close, but not quite....now what was that mother of all storms...

Special K?

Remember the early computer models on "K" wanted to turn it back to the florida panhandle after it crossed the penninsula?

And this was the real track:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Katrina_2005_track.png



Anyway, not saying that's going to happen.

Just pointing out how ridiculously inconsistent all of these models are.

This run was a weak Katrina clone...Previous run was a weak Charlie clone...3 days ago it was a Labor Day clone....just that bad and inconsistent...
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 2 2011, 01:48 PM)
Anyway, check this out. This is the canadian model again, which is doing some scary *** again...


No, they are not producing any scary *** AGAIN.
They didn't when you originally went bazoonuts and they aren't doing so now.

QUOTE
Just pointing out how ridiculously inconsistent all of these models are. ...

....just that bad and inconsistent...

And yet the NHC's track has been quite consistent as to track and intensity.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

With every track showing it crossing Hispaniola at about the same time and the same intensity as their current projections.

And never once did they project this TC to be easily be one of the worst mega-disasters in the modern world

In the 5pm forcast though, they have now projected Emily to exit the Northern coast of Hispaniola as a TD, not as a TS.

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
And they shall be quite wrong...quite wrong indeed.


http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...lm2&zoom=&time=


This steering layer analysis shows that the storm is going to turn back SOUTH, to around as much as 15 to 20 degrees south of west, i.e. WSW, a few hours from now.

The storm did wobble north a few hours ago, because it hit the "hump" in the steering layer to it's south side, but now it is past/ passing the hump.

this can also be seen here:

http://www.esl.lsu.edu/animate/goes/index....pics&channel=lc


Based on the storm's current intensity, and anything within the range of 60kts, it will jog SOUTH until it exceeds at LEAST 60kts...

Even above 60kts, the steering is still due west or even slightly WSW....at least for the next 12 hours or so...
flyingbuttressman
Quantum,

Have you noticed a trend in your posts here? It seems to follow this pattern:

See something on television
Imagine the most unrealistic interpretation or extrapolation of the ideas presented
Daydream about how amazing or horrible your imagined scenario would be
Look up equations and figures to prove your imagined interpretation to yourself
Come to physforum.com and try to explain to everyone why YOUR interpretation of this idea is MORE valid than that of any so-called experts
Ignore correction and post pages and pages of equations full of made-up numbers and state that the initial numbers you are using are "conservative at best" and that the result is as plain as day.
When people repeatedly refute your points, leave in a huff
Take a month off
Go to step 1
Quantum_Conundrum
The northern jog has certainly finished and leveled off to due west...

http://classic.wunderground.com/tropical/t...at.html#a_topad


The southern jog, as per the STEERING LAYERS, should begin presently.
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (flyingbuttressman+Aug 2 2011, 06:37 PM)
Quantum,

Have you noticed a trend in your posts here? It seems to follow this pattern:

See something on television
Imagine the most unrealistic interpretation or extrapolation of the ideas presented
Daydream about how amazing or horrible your imagined scenario would be
Look up equations and figures to prove your imagined interpretation to yourself
Come to physforum.com and try to explain to everyone why YOUR interpretation of this idea is MORE valid than that of any so-called experts
Ignore correction and post pages and pages of equations full of made-up numbers and state that the initial numbers you are using are "conservative at best" and that the result is as plain as day.
When people repeatedly refute your points, leave in a huff
Take a month off
Go to step 1

Reported for directly falsely accusing me of falsifying information...


The vast majority of the time, I use publicly available data in my posts.


Once again, FBM, you show yourself to be a completely dishonest person.



"leave in a huff" is also BS.

I don't post on here, or even visit every day, partly because of YOU and your LIES, and partly because I have other things I'm interested in.



About like the Oil Spill last year...

I knew right away from analysis of the satellite footprint that the spill was orders of magnitude worse than BP or the government admitted........

guess who opposed me? Adoucette and the forum mafia...


Guess who was right?


ME!!!

Get a life.
soundhertz
QUOTE
Just pointing out how ridiculously inconsistent all of these models are.
Which underscores the enormous difficulty to decipher something meaningful out of simplified assumptions (which is what models are) derived from a giant set of complex data. The deciphering happens to affect potentially millions of lives, which is why NHC carefully considers all the various models and ensembles, each of them somewhat proprietary in their method, after being fed the AVN data. Not all models have all data-can't be done. But different models have their strong and weak areas, and NHC reads it like a symphonic music chart, and considering the unimaginable complexity of the atmosphere, they do rather well.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/~acevans/models/models.html

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
Just pointing out how ridiculously inconsistent all of these models are.
Which underscores the enormous difficulty to decipher something meaningful out of simplified assumptions (which is what models are) derived from a giant set of complex data. The deciphering happens to affect potentially millions of lives, which is why NHC carefully considers all the various models and ensembles, each of them somewhat proprietary in their method, after being fed the AVN data. Not all models have all data-can't be done. But different models have their strong and weak areas, and NHC reads it like a symphonic music chart, and considering the unimaginable complexity of the atmosphere, they do rather well.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/~acevans/models/models.html

This steering layer analysis shows that the storm is going to turn back SOUTH, to around as much as 15 to 20 degrees south of west, i.e. WSW, a few hours from now.
If the storm remains weak, if the barely steering low moves east and not northeast, if the low's boundary circulation increases - or else the stronger winds up north win. And they usually do. The one thing you have strongly in your favor is the statistical average, which is west. But you are aware of the strong cold front sweeping into the Atlantic?

In reality, some weaker tropical systems moving into the south CONUS would be extremely welcome. I think a majority of coastal residents would brave wind and surge to vanquish their own private Sahara.
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 2 2011, 07:58 PM)
The vast majority of the time, I use publicly available data in my posts.

Data misused is just as bad as data made-up.
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 2 2011, 07:58 PM)
About like the Oil Spill last year...

I knew right away from analysis of the satellite footprint that the spill was orders of magnitude worse than BP or the government admitted........

guess who opposed me? Adoucette and the forum mafia...


Guess who was right?


ME!!!


Except you weren't right. Yes the amount that was leaking was more than the official estimates but you were also way over the actual amount of oil on the surface, and what was being disagreed with is that VERY HIGH number you were promoting.

QUOTE (Quantum Conundrum May 1 2010+ 05:39 PM)

86,389,333.33 GALLONS


Actual oil on the surface at the end of 10 days would have been around 12 million gallons

Arthur
soundhertz
uh uh

Still West Northwest.

CMC 120h has it well North, center well off the CONUS.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/cmctc2.cgi?...city&hour=120hr

This buoy has recorded the highest sustained winds and highest gust@29knots. Not surprisingly, it's in the Northeast quadrant, and it's close to Puerto Rico.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=42085
NymphaeaAlba
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+)
guess who opposed me?

Maybe that they got so mad at You that the only punishment they could give was to - "I'll show You!" - reject?"
Quantum_Conundrum
Average bearing over the past 12 hours was 16 degrees.

Average bearing over the past 6 hours was 11.5 degrees.


This shows the storm was in fact deflected southward by 4.5 degrees of bearing, relative to it's previous heading.

My analysis was not entirely wrong, the steering wind pushing southward just wasn't strong enough to completely change the direction.



However, I admit, I over-estimated the strength of the steering layer, and no appreciable WSW motion occured.


Nevertheless, if the storm maintains an average bearing of 16, it will in fact, hit the extreme western end of Hispaniola.

Anything less than that will miss Hispaniola.

The storm currently has a bearing of 10 or less seeing as how the 8:00am advisories list the motions as "West".


So my scenario is not eliminated just yet, even though admittedly, it's coming in farther north than I thought yesterday.


Perhaps not an Emily 2005 repeat after all, but more west than the Official, certainly.



====

Of course, I'd just like to point something out.

I Go back and look at the Tuesday 2:00a.m. GFS model run...

Tee hee...

Even if I'm wrong, then I'm no worse than the multi-million dollars computer models, because it had the storm dying out at 16N, somewheres south of Jamaica.
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 08:42 AM)
My analysis was not entirely wrong, the steering wind pushing southward just wasn't strong enough to completely change the direction.


Yes, you were entirely wrong.

I posted the NHC track that said it was going to hit Hispaniola at about the same time and intensity as they had been projecting for days and you replied:

QUOTE (Quantum Conundrum+)
And they shall be quite wrong...quite wrong indeed.

This steering layer analysis shows that the storm is going to turn back SOUTH, to around as much as 15 to 20 degrees south of west, i.e. WSW, a few hours from now.


Your prediction never happened.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

Your later prediction:

QUOTE (QC+)
The southern jog, as per the STEERING LAYERS, should begin presently.


Never happened.

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
I admitted that.

But what you need to admit is the NHC track is still too far north, regardless.


The storm did in fact experience a RELATIVE southerly jog, of nearly 5 degrees average bearing over 6 hours, it just wasn't as strong as I thought.

Now look at this

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108031200


this lists the bearing as 280, which is actually SSW, so either a typo, or a wobble right at the moment they did the analysis.

I think they meant to say 10, and maybe used a different axis as the reference point.


Anyway...

Now, let's say the storm maintains an average bearing of 16, which is what it did the last 12 hours average, but was only 10 for the last 6 hours average.


With an average bearing of 16, which is actually more north than it is currently moving, it will hit the extreme western tip of the Haiti.


With an average bearing of 10, which it currently has, it will hit Jamaica.



In order for the center line of 8:00a.m. NHC forecast to be correct, the storm needs to maintain an average bearing of 40 degrees over the next 18 hours.

In order for the left edge of their cone to be correct, the storm needs to maintain an average bearing of 26 for the next 18 hours or so, which is again, much farther north than it is currently moving...


Dislike me all you want, they'll have to shift the cone westwards again and again at this rate.
Quantum_Conundrum
Looks like several of the computers are starting to see the light.

http://euler.atmos.colostate.edu/~vigh/gui...rack_early1.png


Forecast cone shifting westward, I should think.


Emily's CoC is very much exposed. Northerly sheer has pushed the primary convection blob (would be Central Dense overcast) far to the south of where it was 12 hours ago, exposing the near-naked center of circulation...


This favors the more westerly tracks in at least the short term, as we certainly aren't going to see any hard northerly turns with a 1000mb cyclone with neutral to negative steering currents.
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 09:24 AM)
Now look at this

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108031200


this lists the bearing as 280, which is actually SSW, so either a typo, or a wobble right at the moment they did the analysis.

I think they meant to say 10, and maybe used a different axis as the reference point.


NO

A bearing of 280 degrees is 10 degrees North of due West (270 degrees).

So the site is saying Emily is tracking WNW.

Just like the track the NHS has been predicting for days.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
NHC must be reading my posts. LOL...


http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_a...-daynl#contents



They've shifted their center line west to about where their western edge was, and shifted the western edge farther west to the west tip of Haiti.


They should put the center line off-shore of the western tip of Haiti, in my oppinion.

In the past 6 hours, the storm moved with an average ratio of 0.11n to 0.8w, which is an average bearing of just 7 degrees... moreover, it actually slightly accelerated, indicating that it may be leveling off more and more of a western track after all...


Therefore, it is not even moving as far north as would be needed for the CoC to hit Hispaniola at all. Now you want to argue about partial eye-walls and feeder bands, sure, Haiti is going to get it, and maybe even get clipped by the inner-most bands, but I do not think the DEAD CENTER of the CoC will hit them at all.


It will be a much closer encounter with Jamaica.

At any rate, the Gustav comparison is the best in recent memory at this point, for the next 12 to 24hrs...

I think it stays slightly south of Gustav and off-shore of Haiti.


As you can see, I'm certainly no worse than the computer models, and for the past 24 hrs, I've consistently beaten or equaled the NHC.


QUOTE

NO

A bearing of 280 degrees is 10 degrees North of due West (270 degrees).

So the site is saying Emily is tracking WNW.

Arthur



Then they have used a different reference axis in that data than in all the previous ones.

Before, they were giving a bearing of 0 or 10 when it was W or WNW respectively...


So either way, they made a mistake.


It's pretty obvious from my post that I knew that 280 is off from 270 by ten degrees, so they either made a typo of some sort, or they used a different reference axis.

If you used N as your reference, then 280 is equal to 10 when using West as the reference.


It's possible a different person entered the data, because for the last 3 days they have been using small numbers: 0, 10, 30, etc, to indicate W and WNW, then they suddenly say 280. If you were using the same reference axis, then 280 is actually SSW.

Either way, it was their mistake, not mine, which I clearly pointed out.

You shouldn't change an axis of reference arbitrarily like that, and not mention it.



At any rate, it's irrelevant, because 10 degrees N of W is too shallow for the NHC forecast to be correct, and the actual bearing in the last 6 hours turns out to be 7 degrees, not even 10, when you do the trigonometry yourself...
soundhertz
QUOTE
this lists the bearing as 280, which is actually SSW...
Please look closely at this and educate yourself. Uhh, now it's a deeper hole that's been dug.

Good scientists have no problems saying "I was wrong", and with no excuses or partial claims of correctness. Scientific humility is simple honesty. It also is a subtle declaration of having no pony in any race, only a tortoise, plodding along carefully.

The ONLY time I've ever read "Tee Hee", was from Wendy the Witch


Hi NA! tongue.gif
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 11:06 AM)
So either way, they made a mistake.

...

Either way, it was their mistake, not mine, which I clearly pointed out

Right, couldn't of been you who misread the data.

Arthur
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (adoucette+Aug 3 2011, 11:12 AM)
Right, couldn't of been you who misread the data.

Arthur


No, it could not have been me, you idiot.


I have the graphics saved in my "pictures" folder, in some cases.


I know my stuff,

You're not supposed to change a point of reference in the middle of doing something, and they definitely did that.


QUOTE
Please look closely at this and educate yourself. Uhh, now it's a deeper hole that's been dug.


Please look at this data from THEIR archives, when the storm was moving W to WNW.

Educate YOUR self...





http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020600

bearing listed as 10, and heading was always given W to wnw

and

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020000

same

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108030000

Bearing given as 20 and WNW....(which wnw was also seen by the grid coordinates...)


http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108031200


Bearing INCORRECTLY given as 280 and W (w/ drifting N implied by grid coordinates..)

THIS IS A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART, because if 20 was WNW in the previous data, then 280 would have been SSW with regard to the same reference axis, since 20 was CLEARLY with respect to true west.

280 is bad information on their part.


Educate yourselves,...


Thank God for modern archives, which you fools should have bothered to look at....

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL052011



grow up
Quantum_Conundrum
New coordinates are in.

16.8N 70.3W
50mph
"W" at 13mph...



Over the past 7 hours, the storm has had an average bearing of 8.21, which is barely north of west.

The track is trending more and more west.

In order to hit HISPANIOLA as per the west edge NHC forecast cone, the storm would need to maintain an average bearing of 18.92 degrees, or WNW...


The storm is more likely to totally miss Hispaniola, and instead hit Jamaica (or barely miss) at around 31 hours from now, or 8pm central standard time on August 4th.

At any rate, landfall on Jamaica is more likely than Hispaniola...
Quantum_Conundrum
Hispaniola is going to have serious problems from rainfall totals, since this storm is so back-loaded.

http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radb...f=9999&smooth=0

Puerto Rico has several locations on land with totals in excess of 8 inches since midnight(13 hours ago).

Fortunately, I think the heaviest rains happened off shore, south of Ponce, where there has been 15 inches of rain in the past 13 hours...



Now, unfortunately for everyone west of this storm, it continues to have a very strong tap on the monsoon trough:

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01108012210.GIF


Since it will be paralleling the coast of Hispaniola, they will likely experience several days of training of the monsoon trough following Emily's LLC. Certainly 2 to 3 days of rain, but I suppose as much as 4 days of tropical rainfall, even after the CoC passes them to the SW and hits Jamaica...Expect some isolated locations in Hispaniola to experience an excess of 20 inches during that time, easily, one or two locations may even approach 30 inches for 2 to 4 day rain totals.



http://classic.wunderground.com/radar/radb...f=9999&smooth=0


The near-miss may be as bad or worse for the DR region as a direct hit, due to the angle of the training feeder bands and monsoon trough...
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 01:38 PM)

No, it could not have been me, you idiot.


I have the graphics saved in my "pictures" folder, in some cases.


I know my stuff,

You're not supposed to change a point of reference in the middle of doing something, and they definitely did that.

Please look at this data from THEIR archives, when the storm was moving W to WNW.

Educate YOUR self...





http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020600

bearing listed as 10, and heading was always given W to wnw

and

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020000

same

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108030000

Bearing given as 20 and WNW....(which wnw was also seen by the grid coordinates...)


http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108031200


Bearing INCORRECTLY given as 280 and W (w/ drifting N implied by grid coordinates..)

THIS IS A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART, because if 20 was WNW in the previous data, then 280 would have been SSW with regard to the same reference axis, since 20 was CLEARLY with respect to true west.

280 is bad information on their part.


Educate yourselves,...


Thank God for modern archives, which you fools should have bothered to look at....

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL052011



grow up

ROTFLMAO

Note the location of the Low pressure system you linked to: ~15.5 N and 62.3 W

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020600

QC, that is NOT the TC the NHC has designated as Emily and that we have been discussing. Emily is currently located at 16.8 N and 70.3 W and is moving WNW and is most likely going to hit Hispaniola later tonight. (The NHC is now saying the center of Emily will make landfall in the DR near Cabo Beata tonight.)

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

The only thing that you continually make clear is that you don't know your "stuff" nearly as well as you think you do and that you need to slow down and not jump to conclusions and most importantly you need to quit calling people names because it just comes back and bites you in the a$$.

Arthur
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 01:38 PM)
I have the graphics saved in my "pictures" folder, in some cases.

I know my stuff

Did you hear that everybody? He has the graphics saved to his pictures folder. He obviously knows what he's talking about.
Quantum_Conundrum
QUOTE (adoucette+Aug 3 2011, 01:42 PM)
ROTFLMAO

Note the location of the Low pressure system you linked to: ~15.5 N and 62.3 W

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...ND_201108020600

QC, that is NOT the TC the NHC has designated as Emily and that we have been discussing. Emily is currently located at 16.8 N and 70.3 W and is  moving WNW and is most likely going to hit Hispaniola later tonight. (The NHC is now saying the center of Emily will make landfall in the DR near Cabo Beata tonight.)

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graph...5/loop_5W.shtml

The only thing that you continually make clear is that you don't know your "stuff" nearly as well as you think you do and that you need to slow down and not jump to conclusions and most importantly you need to quit calling people names because it just comes back and bites you in the a$$.

Arthur

Educate yourself, *****...


that is exactly the same storm from a few days earlier, as a Wave, Invest, and TD.


You're not even worthy of any further response...


You missed the point entirely, idiot.

The BEARING was a small, positive number when the direction was W and WNW, agreeing with me, and the archive shows what I was talking about.


You're hopeless.

That is EXACTLY the same storm, you idiot. You don't know anything about tropical weather, as is obvious.



Seriously, adoucette, you're a complete fool.


You don't have any idea whatsoever what you're talking about...


FBM, you're even worse, you are just disagreeing with me because you always do anyway, and because another fool disagreed.


http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...tifier=AL052011


They are all in the same archives, FOOL...


They are all from the same invest, AL05, which is Emily's tag name, you FOOL...


Go educate yourself, FOOL


Get the *** off the forum, you unqualified FOOL
Quantum_Conundrum
Slight southerly jog has definitely happened.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01108031425.GIF



I was anticipating this for two reasons:

1) the steering layer continues to suggests it might happen...

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/dlmm...lm1&zoom=&time=


2) The island rebound effect.

Of course, this system is weaker than normally associated with the rebound effect, but whatever.

Now we shall see how big the jog/rebound is over the next several hours.

adoucette
You're right, it was the same storm.

See how easy it is to admit when one makes a mistake?

But QC, the bearing of 280 NEVER means SSW.

Arthur
flyingbuttressman
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 3 2011, 03:50 PM)
FBM, you're even worse, you are just disagreeing with me because you always do anyway, and because another fool disagreed.

I disagree with you because you're an idiot. If you were a lawyer, you couldn't prove gravity. Even if there was ONE time when you were right, you made your case so poorly that no-one believed you. Each person is their own jury, it's your responsibility to prove your case.
soundhertz
It's west right now out of great disorganization and weakness. There is nothing for mid/deep layers to pick up. The COC is separate from the cloud mass. My slightly educated guess is that the Northern steering takes Emily if Emily gets it's act together quickly (shear will dissipate soon letting Emily recoup meandering thunderheads), otherwise a languishing Emily floats westward. There's a lot of room to turn North, but the longer Emily waits, the closer to CONUS anything gets. I think the best scenario is that Emily never gets her act together, and she floats as a diffuse large TS over drought ravaged areas. That's wishcasting, but at least in a benevolent way.


8:00 PN tracking data in: Emily is stationary. There's not enough steer anywhere to do anything but float...
The fork in the steering btwn West and North is west of Haiti.

If shear is low, diurnal maximum will be interesting. Nothing like a stationary system.
Quantum_Conundrum
Ok, well, now here is my forecast for the next 24 hours.


I should note, the storm has had a bit of a hiccup the past few hours, as some re-organization has given a bit of a "relative stall".

The LLC as been pulled back slightly under the convection blob, as happens sometimes with weak systems, so there was a tad of a reset in westward progression.

Nevertheless, the steering environment favors my previous forecast fairly well, though the "stall" will require me to revise my position eastward a tad, but still west of the NHC cone once again....

The over-all motion of the entire system is about the same as always.


Position:

My "target" is 18N and 75.5W @ 8pm Eastern, 7pm central August 4th.


Plus or minus a few tenths of a degree in each axis...

Intensity:

I call for an AVERAGE of 5kts of intensification per 6 hour period between now and then, so in 5kts increments (rounding mph to nearest 5):

now: 45kts (50mph)
6hrs: 50kts
12hrs: 55kts
18hrs: 60kts
24hrs: 65kts (75mph)

WITH a margin of error after 24 hrs being +10kts to -5kts...

Thus, after 24hrs, the winds will be between 60kts (near 70mph) and 75kts (85mph). My most likely target, again, being 65kts at 24hrs...


Shear over the region will be dropping some over night and into tomorrow.

Additionally, heat content in the ocean is significantly higher in the region the storm is entering.

Finally, the storm is leaving the "John Hope" zone, or dead zone for developement and intensification of weak cyclones, and instead entering the near-perfect Western Caribbean zone.


Based on the most recent observations, combined with climatology and history, and simply looking at the steering in RGB satellite imagery, I do not believe these intensities will be sufficient to cause the storm to turn north very much.


Additional information will be available then.

Only 4 storms in recorded history in a similar location and same month have managed to miss the mainland continent, suggesting it takes an exceptional steering feature to bring a storm up and re-curve it from this location. We do not have such a feature...

http://classic.wunderground.com/tropical/t...mo.html#a_topad


So anyway, I'll be back tomorrow to re-analize the situation, and see how well this forecast has panned out...
Quantum_Conundrum
The stall has been annoyingly long, and has delayed everything by around 12 to 15 hours.


Still, even with the stall, the average motion (the vector, not the speed,) of the LLC is almost exactly in line with the forecast I gave 12 hours ago, it's just going to be delayed by 12 to 15 hours, I think.


Average motion of the center for the past 15 hours has been:

0.2N and 0.8W, for a ratio of 1/4, this gives a bearing of 14.5 degrees.


In the past 3 hours, the storm actually moved SSW, or 0.2 S and 0.1 W, though "officially" it is still regarded as "nearly stationary."


The monsoon trough has gained amplitude, shortened period, and become more concentric with Emily's LLC over night.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/t...01108020714.GIF


This is one reason this storm does not "turn" easily, and only wobbles. It is imbedded inside a double envelope, inside one of the largest air masses in the hemisphere. These types of systems, (such as Alex,) tend to just keep going west, and drift only a tenth or so north every several hours. They are so massive that ordinary steering features have little influence on them. While the LLC may wobble around a bit inside there, it isn't going to go flying off in some tangent direction, at least not without significant intensification to gain the pole-seeking effects of the coriolis effect...

So on a synoptic scale, the storm is more organized than it has ever been.

On a local scale, not much has changed, except there is more convection on the western side of the storm than 15 hours ago, suggesting some room for intensification if it can get some breathing room from the close call with the islands.


Busted track alibi:

Nobody else, not even a model, anticipated a stall of any kind. In fact, the NHC and most of the modeels was forecasting a speeding up to around 17kts before this happened.


Busted Intensity alibi:

Because it never crossed 73W, my assumptions about historical averages and water and atmosphere conditions were delayed by 12 to 15 hours.

====


New track:

Still calling for 18N 75.5W, just move it back 12 hours.

So tomorrow, August 5, at 8am EDT, Emily will be near 18N 75.5W.


Intensity:

Based on my track assumption, I'll still go with the +5kts per 6 hours AVERAGE intensification, assuming the stall is ending presently, which Satellite suggests may be happening.

Now: 45kts
6hrs: 50kts
12hrs: 55kts
18hrs: 60kts
24hrs: 65kts

Margin of error is the same @ 24hrs (offset by 15 because of the stall.)

-5kts to +10kts @ 24hrs

or

60kts to 75kts @ 24hrs, being 8a.m. EDT, August 05...
soundhertz
Like I said before, until there is an actual stacked cylinder into the 700+ mb level, the strong northern turn can't happen. The storm is nearly exactly what the NHC has predicted in strength, and where it should be since it hasn't tightened up enough to strengthen. The "50kn" winds are confined to a tiny area. NHC needs no alibi for their unbusted prediction.

Avila is the best tropical forecasting mind in the world, and when he says the models are "seeing something not apparent to him" (rough quote), that is a spicy statement. This means there are as-of-now unseen aspects of the variables that when they synergize, are supposed to do what the models suggest. That Avila is for now disregarding the models' pov in the official forecast is very interesting. That he is demonstrating his humility in his statement is not surprising. It's also a statement that currently indicates more guesswork than usual. The most difficult storms to predict are the ones that are not in an environment providing strong steering patterns. When this occurs, any one of the minor players that would normally not have a hand in the mix, can become the new steering force. And predicting that is not dissimilar to finding the needle. It is guesswork, a roll of the dice. The 'strongest looking' player may not be that at all to the system. Mass of the system in different layers must be taken into account. We are nowhere near the point that exact forecasts can be made, which is why both you and NHC were not right on, but NHC was closer than you. Everything you have commented on is not lost on NHC, you know that, right?

Be humble. wink.gif
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 4 2011, 08:28 AM)
tomorrow, August 5, at 8am EDT, Emily will be near 18N 75.5W.


Intensity:

Based on my track assumption, I'll still go with the +5kts per 6 hours AVERAGE intensification, assuming the stall is ending presently, which Satellite suggests may be happening.

Now: 45kts
6hrs: 50kts
12hrs: 55kts
18hrs: 60kts
24hrs: 65kts

Margin of error is the same @ 24hrs (offset by 15 because of the stall.)

-5kts to +10kts @ 24hrs

or

60kts to 75kts @ 24hrs, being 8a.m. EDT, August 05...

Nope.

EMILY DEGENERATES INTO A TROUGH OF LOW PRESSURE...HEAVY RAINS
CONTINUE OVER HISPANIOLA...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATC...ml/042031.shtml
soundhertz
Emily is 19N, 75W, moving more briskly NW, falling apart, unfortunately over parts of Haiti.

There may be something left to regenerate however.





Capracus
Headline in Bizarro Universe:

Hurricane Emily Devastates Hispaniola and Cuba.
adoucette
QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum+Aug 4 2011, 08:28 AM)
So on a synoptic scale, the storm is more organized than it has ever been.

On a local scale, not much has changed, except there is more convection on the western side of the storm than 15 hours ago, suggesting some room for intensification if it can get some breathing room from the close call with the islands.


New track:

Still calling for 18N 75.5W, just move it back 12 hours.

So tomorrow, August 5, at 8am EDT, Emily will be near 18N 75.5W.

....

Intensity:
60kts to 75kts @ 24hrs, being 8a.m. EDT, August 05...

Well at 8:00 EST on 8/5 what really happened:

QUOTE (NHC+)
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
800 AM EDT FRI AUG 5 2011

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

1. A SURFACE TROUGH...THE REMNANTS OF FORMER TROPICAL STORM EMILY...IS PRODUCING A LARGE AREA OF CLOUDINESS AND THUNDERSTORMS EXTENDING FROM EASTERN CUBA NORTHEASTWARD ACROSS THE SOUTHEASTERN BAHAMAS.


So besides your completely wrong earlier prediction that it would miss Hispaniola and make landfall in Jamaica, your 24 hour forecast made a completely wrong prediction of track and completely wrong prediction on intensification.

Instead of your prediction of Emily going West and getting much stronger, it went North and fell apart:

At 8:00 EDT Emily is no longer a TC and the center of the remnants of Emily appear to be at ~22.4N & 74.2W

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/mtcswa.htm...052011&id=EMILY

So just maybe a little less name calling is in order?
soundhertz
Yes, Uncle Atmo is a tough nut to crack, and offers courses in humility for the enthusiastic weather geeks among us willing to learn. Dr. Avila has spent decades of working daily with models, maps, and equations. And he is perplexed to some degree with every storm. And he's the best. Lessons to be learned here...

The GOES East Water Vapor Loop shows the remains having a potent little nugget just under Cuba, and a larger wet blob over the Bahamas. Nothing is expected, but the nugget is in a favorable environment, if there is any spinning left.
soundhertz
TS Irene really bears watching by Caribbean and Florida residents. Pretty big system. The only major impediment to increasing strength is land mass. Not being much affected by dry air atm; the total available energy from the sea is impressive; the low that will exit the U.S. may be too weak to recurve it beyond the E. Seaboard. Statistically, discounting land interaction, Irene exists in conditions favoring major hurricane potential. In this case, exact track has everything to do with future intensity.

ECMWF(euro) - our best recent and current forecaster (beating NHC by a very small margin) likes Irene. That in itself is worrisome. Another thing to watch is how fast it strengthens: generally a rapid developer moves NW sooner, a slow developer continues West-ish.

Currently, Irene shows no sign of NOT affecting significant population

Capracus
Hurricane season ends in 30 days.
Matador
BUMP
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