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pnelson419
Gravity is a tension force caused by the accelerating expansion of our universe.
The gravitation force is the attracting effect gravity has on matter.

Try to imagine all matter enlarging in the same space with the more massive objects growing at a faster rate. Now if we see these objects as their original size during the entire event, objects with the more mass would seem to have greater gravity because it would appear the object with the more mass was pulling the object with the lesser mass.

Time and motion will determine if any two objects meet, which comes to the next and even harder to describe concept...time.


Time is a spring force that connects any two points in the universe. Time attempts to stay constant expanding with the universe but time can be compressed by gravity and /or acceleration giving the appearance that time is slowing.

In actuality time is self correcting and is constant. To the individual it is always Now.

Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 01:10 AM)
Gravity is a tension force caused by the accelerating expansion of our universe.
The gravitation force is the attracting effect gravity has on matter.

Try to imagine all matter enlarging in the same space with the more massive objects growing at a faster rate. Now if we see these objects as their original size during the entire event, objects with the more mass would seem to have greater gravity because it would appear the object with the more mass was pulling the object with the lesser mass.

Time and motion will determine if any two objects meet, which comes to the next and even harder to describe concept...time.


Time is a spring force that connects any two points in the universe. Time attempts to stay constant expanding with the universe but time can be compressed by gravity and /or acceleration giving the appearance that time is slowing.

In actuality time is self correcting and is constant. To the individual it is always Now.

How is expansion going to create an attractive force? That is backwards thinking.

Space is what connects any two points in the universe. NOT Time.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 01:56 AM)
How is expansion going to create an attractive force? That is backwards thinking.

Space is what connects any two points in the universe. NOT Time.

then define space
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 02:01 AM)
then define space

why are you telling me what to do?
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 02:02 AM)
why are you telling me what to do?

I was only interested in knowing what your definition of space is.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 02:06 AM)
I was only interested in knowing what your definition of space is.

Space has a SUBSTANCE pnel. IT ACCELERATES. THAT IS GRAVITY.

Mitch Raemsch
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 02:15 AM)
Space has a SUBSTANCE pnel. IT ACCELERATES. THAT IS GRAVITY.

Mitch Raemsch

Thank you for your reply. I don't understand that concept, but I will study on it and see if it makes sense to me.

I picked this forum because it said to post new ideas here no matter how weird.

My idea just makes sense to me. Describing it is much harder
Nick
I believe zephir has the same idea of expanding space creating gravity. To me though expanding space would if anything be antigravity pnel.

Thankyou pnel
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 02:33 AM)
I believe zephir has the same idea of expanding space creating gravity. To me though expanding space would if anything be antigravity pnel.

Thankyou pnel

and thank you, but I don't consider space and the universe the same thing.

I consider space is now. The universe is forever.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 02:43 AM)
and thank you, but I don't consider space and the universe the same thing.

I consider space is now. The universe is forever.

space is NOW and is forever
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 02:45 AM)
space is NOW and is forever

With the universe you can connect two points in time. You can't do that with space
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 02:52 AM)
With the universe you can connect two points in time. You can't do that with space

What do you mean? There is space in between connecting 2 points.

There is a NOW everywhere in the universe. You mean universal simultaneity.
The past is not in the distance. Now is.

Mitch
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 02:58 AM)
What do you mean? There is space in between connecting 2 points.

There is a NOW everywhere in the universe. You mean universal simultaneity.
The past is not in the distance. Now is.

Mitch

yes you can connect two points in space and that is like you said points in the now. only in the universe past an future can you connect points of time.

Now look anywhere in the universe, are you looking at Now.

And really, do you think space is forever

We all live in Now
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 03:06 AM)
yes you can connect two points in space and that is like you said points in the now. only in the universe past an future can you connect points of time.

Now look anywhere in the universe, are you looking at Now.

And really, do you think space is forever

We all live in Now

When you look at light it is from the past. Light is timebound space is not.
Past and future don't exist.
The whole universe lives in NOW.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 03:11 AM)
When you look at light it is from the past. Light is timebound space is not.
Past and future don't exist.
The whole universe lives in NOW.

Past and future don't exist? I will consider that and get back you
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 03:11 AM)
When you look at light it is from the past. Light is timebound space is not.
Past and future don't exist.
The whole universe lives in NOW.

I am back and you are right, past and future doesn't exist Now
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 03:26 AM)
I am back and you are right, past and future doesn't exist Now

Information about the past is contained within light and light is timebound. The NOW isn't.

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 03:30 AM)
Information about the past is contained within light and light is timebound. The NOW isn't.

OK, there is no past, future or Now

But I am still here
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 03:34 AM)
OK, there is no past, future or Now

But I am still here

There IS NOW and only NOW. The past is gone. The future is yet to be. That's why you ARE HERE.

Mitch Raemsch
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 04:06 AM)
There IS NOW and only NOW. The past is gone. The future is yet to be. That's why you ARE HERE.

Mitch Raemsch

Good I am glad I am here. So what do you think separates the past and the future.
pnelson419
and I mean point in the past and future in this universe. assuming we live in the same one.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 04:20 AM)
Good I am glad I am here. So what do you think separates the past and the future.

Why do you think something seperates them if they don't even exist?

You should know that only NOW works.

Mitch Raemsch -- LIGHT FALL --
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 04:25 AM)
Why do you think something separates them if they don't even exist?

You should know that only NOW works.

Mitch Raemsch -- LIGHT FALL --

They Do exist. Present, Past, and Future is the Universe.

Just because you do not believe that doesn't mean it isn't so.

Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 04:34 AM)
They Do exist. Present, Past, and Future is the Universe.

Just because you do not believe that doesn't mean it isn't so.

You are playing with me.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 2 2007, 04:37 AM)
You are playing a game with me.

And I am tired of playing tonight. It is late here, I am tired and I am going to bed


Good Night
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 04:42 AM)
And I am tired of playing tonight. It is late here, I am tired and I am going to bed


Good Night

GOODBYE.

Mitch
Farsight
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 04:20 AM)
Good I am glad I am here. So what do you think separates the past and the future.
pnelson419
explaining concepts of time and gravity is what i started this forum for and I am glad to see any attempts to do this just as I have.

Now in my definition of time I wrote that gravity and acceleration compress time because I thought that would be easier to visualize but with current models of gravity I think it might be easier to visualize time by saying that time is stretched by gravity and acceleration.

I dint have a visual aid so you will have to imagine a gravitational force pulling down on the fabric of space. as the mass increases the angle of the event horizon narrows.

also in the visual, time is a spring being stretched with gravity or acceleration.
the event horizon narrows as the spring is stretched. when the spring is stretched to a strait line then time becomes equal to the gravitational force or the rate of acceleration. in that event time would in effect stop. but since time is actually constant to the individual this event is impossible.
pnelson419
By the way Nick, I don't know if you believe in the event horizon, but the event horizon is Now.
Bryn Richards
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 01:10 AM)
Gravity is a tension force caused by the accelerating expansion of our universe.

Time is a spring force that connects any two points in the universe.

Now define what a "force" is, in no uncertain terms.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Bryn Richards+Aug 2 2007, 11:23 AM)
Now define what a "force" is, in no uncertain terms.

A force is a push or pull upon an object resulting from the object's interaction with another object. Whenever there is an interaction between two objects, there is a force upon each of the objects. When the interaction ceases, the two objects no longer experience the force. Forces only exist as a result of an interaction.

I got this of the internet and pasted here so I havent really read is yet because I have to leave now and dont have time. but I am sure it is a text book definition of force.

And I do know where you are going ith this but it ill be later before I can discuss it

Thank you for replying
Bryn Richards
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 11:42 AM)
A force is a push or pull upon an object resulting from the object's interaction with another object.

You said a 'force'; what force in particular? "Push/Pull" are over-simplified answers. You even said a 'torsion' and a 'spring' force; these too, are over-simplified answers.

I am asking for what force in particular, and how this force works on the quantum level, from particle to particle.

Saying "Oh, it's a torsion force", is a totally meaningless statement. It doesn't explain anything. It's just one of these layman explanations given because the writer does not have the faintest clue about the processes which occur on a particle/atom-particle/atom basis.
Zephir
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 02:42 PM)
Now define what a "force" is, in no uncertain terms.

Force field is a manifestation of density gradient of Aether foam, i.e. the space-time curvature. You can imagine, it's a sort of buoyancy phenomena.
pnelson419
If my explanations seem over-simplified I would hope that means that some get it. I thought the questions about force was to get me to explain why I would think time is a force.

The reason I call time a force is because we commonly call gravity a force.

Time is the flip side of gravity. They are never equal to the individual. that is why we can measure time from one point to the next.

Try to imagine all space enlarging between object with the with the space between more massive objects growing at a faster rate. now imagine seeing this event with the object at their original distance from each other. We would see time compressed. even more so around the more massive objects.

This is an effect time has on matter caused by the expansion of our universe.

The force of time is negated by the force of gravity and motion.

zero time is zero anti gravity

time is anti gravity
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 2 2007, 11:37 PM)
Try to imagine all space enlarging between object with the with the space between more massive objects growing at a faster rate. now imagine seeing this event with the object at their original distance from each other. We would see time compressed. even more so around the more massive objects.

This is an effect time has on matter caused by the expansion of our universe.

The force of time is negated by the force of gravity and motion.

zero time is zero anti gravity

time is anti gravity

Space expansion should be anti gravity.

Time would speed up.

What do you mean time and gravity are not equal?

Why would we see time compressed because of expansion?
You are claiming this. BUT I do not believe it.

You ask us to imagine.

MITCH
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 12:37 AM)
Space expansion should be anti gravity.

Time would speed up.

What do you mean time and gravity are not equal?

Why would we see time compressed because of expansion?
You are claiming this. BUT I do not believe it.

You ask us to imagine.

MITCH

I ask you to imagine only to try and get a visual picture of what I am trying to say.

to understand my concept of time and gravity you would have to understand my concept what the universe is and how it expands. That is the reason for the mental imagery.

What, in your opinion, makes space expand. I think it is time
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+)
Try to imagine all space enlarging between object with the with the space between more massive objects growing at a faster rate.


That is a contradiction in terms. More massive objects are effected by expansion exactly as are less massive objects. Heavier things don't expand faster.

Yes. Space expands in time not because of time. Space expansion is really a space stretch. I do not think that time stretches space but that gravity does.

Nick
There is such a thing as gravitational time but it is not what you are talking about pnel.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 01:04 AM)
QUOTE (pnelson419+)
Try to imagine all space enlarging between object with the with the space between more massive objects growing at a faster rate.


That is a contradiction in terms. More massive objects are effected by expansion exactly as are less massive objects. Heavier things don't expand faster.

Yes. Space expands in time not because of time. Space expansion is really a space stretch. I do not think that time stretches space but that gravity does.

I consider universal expansion and the expansion of space two very different things.

expansion of space is what we observe in a limited amount of time.

the universe has no limits

pnelson419
our view of the universe is completely different. I may be completely wrong, but my ideas make sense to me if only me
Nick
What is universal expansion if not spatial expansion?

And what form does the universe take?

MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT LOVE --

Nick
Space is not expanding into something pnel.

MITCH RAEMSCH

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 01:24 AM)
What is universal expansion if not spatial expansion?

And what form does the universe take?

MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT LOVE --

space lies on a membrane of an event horizon. The universe makes this space 3D

you will probably say this makes it all space but in my opinion it doesn't
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 01:34 AM)
space lies on a membrane of an event horizon. The universe makes this space 3D

you will probably say this makes it all space but in my opinion it doesn't

I know that event horizons don't exist.

The membrane is a fad of silly string theory. It means a higher dimnension seperate from all other dimensions. It has no place in physics for how can a higher dimension exist sperately from the lower?

In my opinion space is a hypersphere that is expanding causing the stretch I talked about.
pnelson419
I still think time and gravity will never be explained without it.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 01:48 AM)
I still think time and gravity will never be explained without it.

Without what please pnel?

MITCH RAEMSCH
rmuldavin
Been reading a handful of printouts from Internet, one by F.J Tipler, "The Structure of the world from pure numbers",

[PDF] The structure of the world from pure numbers
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
The structure of the world from pure numbers. FJ Tipler. Department of Mathematics and Department of Physics, Tulane University, New Orleans,. LA 70118, USA ...
www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf

{{Abstract
I investigate the relationship between physics and mathematics. I argue that physics can shed light on the proper foundations of mathematics, and that the nature of number can constrain the nature of physical reality. I showthat requiring the joint mathematical consistency of the Standard Model of particle physics and the DeWitt–Feynman–Weinberg theory of quantum gravity can resolve the horizon, flatness and isotropy problems of cosmology. Joint mathematical consistency naturally yields a scale-free, Gaussian, adiabatic perturbation spectrum, and more matter than antimatter. I show that consistency requires the universe to begin at an initial singularity with a pure SU(2)L gauge field. I show that quantum mechanics requires this field to have a Planckian spectrum whatever its temperature. If this field has managed to survive thermalization to the present day, then it would be the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR). If so, then we would have a natural explanation for the dark matter and the dark energy. I show that isotropic ultrahigh energy cosmic rays are explained if the CMBRis a pure SU(2)L gauge field. The SU(2)L nature of theCMBRmay have been seen in the Sunyaev–Zel’dovich effect. I propose several simple experiments to test the hypothesis.}}

[comments: This essay of some 60 pages (897-964), on page 912:

{{
4. The 25 ‘constants’ of the particle physics (extended) standard model
The main objections to the SM as the ultimate theory of nature as follows:
(1) The SM does not include gravitational forces.
(2) The Gauge Hierarchy Problem: The SM Higgs mass must be less than a few hundred GeV, and the largest Yukawa coupling constant is that of the top quark, with a mass of about 180 GeV. These masses are very much less than the Planck mass of 1019 GeV.
(3) The Triviality Problem (Callaway 1988): The mutual interaction of the coupling constants, which should cause the values to be pulled up to the Planck mass or beyond.
(4) The presence of 25 parameters, which are not given by theory, but which must be determined by experiment. These parameters are
(a) six lepton masses (Yukawa coupling constants)
(cool.gif six quark masses (Yukawa coupling constants)
© four lepton mixing angles
(d) four quark mixing angles
(e) two Higgs fields constants (v = 246.22 GeV, and the Higgs mass mH, say)
(f) three gauge coupling constants.
}}

Really, the author writes well, his mathematics seems deep, I am a novice that with EE training can get, maybe, his "feeling" for his subject.

In reading conversations above on the forum, I agree that the force of gravity is a tension drawing objects together, Newton's law a starter, mathematical topology nice to connect the dots, Tipler gives meaning to the words "unity", "unitification", as I have taken them to mean in the Higgs Particle Conjecture as connecting all dot masses in the or our universe (measureable and imagined).

Tipler also is beginning to clarify for me, that is to bring an understanding of Cantor's labeling the various kinds of Infinity using alpha naught, one, two, ..., w, .... In short, infinity it a big subject.

The list above is followed by the paragraph below which mentions the lepton meu (the other two leptons, electron and tau along with the three anti-leptons):

{{Before the discovery of non-zero neutrino masses and neutrino mixing, the three neutrino masses and the four lepton mixing angles were set equal to zero (this restriction gives the (un-extended) SM, so this would give 18 parameters to be discovered by experiment. But if the SM is correct, and there is nothing beyond the (extended) SM, then one of the quark masses must actually be zero, most likely the up quark mass mu. For only if at least one of the quark mass is zero will there be an SM mechanism to eliminate the Strong CP problem. A zero up quark mass has been proposed as the solution to the Strong CP Problem for over 30 years, and refutations of this resolution have been published almost as fast as new variations
of the proposal. However, all the refutations have been based on approximations to the SU(3) colour force, and not on exact calculations based on quantum chromodynamics itself. In
view of the recent acknowledgement of the difficulty in calculating the correct value of the QCD correction to the muon g-2 factor, I think we cannot rule out a zero up quark mass. As I said, a zero quark mass is the only solution to the Strong CP problem if the SM is correct. (I shall discuss this point in more detail later.) The only quark mass that could be zero is the up mass. By symmetry between the lepton and quark sectors, I would expect the electron neutrino, the analogue of the up quark, to have zero mass also. If these two masses are zero, the SM would have 23 ‘free’ parameters.}}

The Hall Quantum Effect, the voltage produced when leptons travel in a plane that has a magnetic field perpendicular through it, operates at all levels that so far I am now studying:
(1) Van Allen Belts contain both sonic and relativistic charged particles, the Earths mantle next to the solid iron core is a liquid, ZiSiO4, itself a tetrahedron with the vertices Oxygen, with Zi=Si in the middle, a very tough material, the Van Allen Belts appear to account for some ten percent of the Earth Magnetic fields, thus there may be a connection between the outer and inner Earths magnetic fields.
(2) The three or six leptons (particles and anti-particles) themselves are considered imcompressable, but adding the Dehmelt Conjecture that the leptons,
e+ and e- are triplets with e/3 at each vertex, thus giving nucleons a structure topological like the tetrahedron of String Theory.
(3) Thus the "aether" is material, and the "vacumn" is both "space" and symmetrical matter and anti-matter.
(4) Consider the various "universes", expanding, oscillating, static, combinations, foams, and otherwise, the connecting two dots at a time, counting connections to all other dots, lots of connections, that gets us toward a unity of something, ... of exchanging mass and energy.

Best, rmuldavin]
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 01:50 AM)
Without what please pnel?

MITCH RAEMSCH

without thinking outside the relativity box
Nick
I am asking about this:
QUOTE (pnelson419 @ Aug 3 2007, 01:48 AM)
I still think time and gravity will never be explained without it.

Your answer isn't straight.
You are making an answer up that is true for another question pnel?
pnelson419
QUOTE (rmuldavin+Aug 3 2007, 02:04 AM)
Been reading a handful of printouts from Internet

I am glad to see any posts that helps explain the topic of this forum. I know my ideas do not follow any real scientific theories, but all theories are just that. from what I read some things just make more sense to me than others.

I dont really want to use this forum to get into philosophical debates although I enjoy to. this forum is really about science and I am trying to found my theories in science.

maybe I will one day be proven right

who knows
Nick
your on the proof train pen


Scientific theories can't be proven just disproven by observation pen.
I am Mitch Raemsch nice to meet you.
pnelson419
Every point in space occupies the same distance in time varying slightly due to the mass of an object to any point in the universe.

this may not seem too clear but is part of how i explain the universe
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 03:08 AM)
your on the proof train pen


Scientific theories can't be proven just disproven by observation pen.
I am Mitch Raemsch nice to meet you.

I stand corrected

Thank you Mitch

nice to meet you too

Phillip Nelson
Nick
Gravitational time slows and passes at different rates without ever going backwards. Acceleration slows time and force keeps it there.

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 03:36 AM)
Gravitational time slows and passes at different rates without ever going backwards. Acceleration slows time and force keeps it there.

you are right

I am only on the quest to explain why.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 03:51 AM)
you are right

I am only on the quest to explain why.

I believe I know why. If time is a motion you can catch up to it. The speed limit is the speed of light and imagine time (causality propagation) moving at this speed limit as a time-light cofactor.

Just as matter can catch up to light and slow time space is doing the same thing by another motion.
MITCH RAEMSCH
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 03:36 AM)
Gravitational time slows and passes at different rates without ever going backwards. Acceleration slows time and force keeps it there.

A flaw I see in this statement is acceleration slows time what force can keep it there except more acceleration
Nick
Actually a better word is enertia. Acceleration is what slows down time. Inertia keeps it there so to speak. Right. Acceleration would just make it even slower.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 03:56 AM)
I believe I know why. If time is a motion you can catch up to it. The speed limit is the speed of light and imagine time (causality propagation) moving at this speed limit as a time-light cofactor.

Just as matter can catch up to light and slow time space is doing the same thing by another motion.
MITCH RAEMSCH

what if the speed of light stays constant with the expansion of the universe, that is why it cannot be broken.

I already know you wont like that idea
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 04:16 AM)
what if the speed of light stays constant with the expansion of the universe, that is why it cannot be broken.

I already know you wont like that idea

That would make sense only if the expansion of the universe was the vehicle for the speed of light.

When we look out we are looking at a variation of expansion rates progressing into the distance. How could this variation explain the constant of the speed of light?
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 04:11 AM)
Actually a better word is enertia. Acceleration is what slows down time. Inertia keeps it there so to speak. Right. Acceleration would just make it even slower.

right I can see that

Nick
The speed of light varies in slow time. Where time is slow in gravity the speed of light goes correspondingly slower. It moves at the same speed C but in a different space-time metric. In this way the speed of light is a relative and a Constant.

MITCH RAEMSCH
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 04:24 AM)
That would make sense only if the expansion of the universe was the vehicle for the speed of light.

When we look out we are looking at a variation of expansion rates progressing into the distance. How could this variation explain the constant of the speed of light?

I my idea of the universe everything is relevant to the rate of expansion

the speed of light stays constant with the rate of expansion.
Nick
I think of expansion as a distance or space stretch. Light traversing distance gets stretched as well. All galaxies just like the universe were once small. The acceleration curve anomoly of the stars is explained by galaxies growing under a space-stretch.

Therefore the future of everything is isolation; more and more distance. The universe is about 30 billion years old. The old calculation was a mistake.

MITCH RAEMSCH
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 04:47 AM)
I think of expansion as a distance or space stretch. Light traversing distance gets stretched as well. All galaxies just like the universe were once small. The acceleration curve anomoly of the stars is explained by galaxies growing under a space-stretch.

Therefore the future of everything is isolation; more and more distance. The universe is about 30 billion years old. The old calculation was a mistake.

MITCH RAEMSCH

actually we cant see the farthest object in the expanse so the universe could be many timed that old for all we know
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 05:20 AM)
actually we cant see the farthest object in the expanse so the universe could be many timed that old for all we know

What makes you sure we can't see the furthest object?

The miscalculation is not taking into account how long it took to get there. Right now they say that its distance in light years or the time it took light to reach us is the age of the universe. They left out the time it took to expand to get there.

I believe there is no reason we cannot see the most distant. What is your reason to believe that?

Mitch
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 05:26 AM)
What makes you sure we can't see the furthest object?

The miscalculation is not taking into account how long it took to get there. Right now they say that its distance in light years or the time it took light to reach us is the age of the universe. They left out the time it took to expand to get there.

I believe there is no reason we cannot see the most distant. What is your reason  to believe that?

Mitch

with the universe expanding at an accelerating rate there is the light from farther galaxies than we can presently see will never reach us
pnelson419
I live in Georgia it is relly late here so I will not make any more posts tonight
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 05:40 AM)
with the universe expanding at an accelerating rate there the light from farther galaxies than we can presently see will never reach us

The universe is a whole. The light from the most distant objects just gets redshifted; more redshifted the further you go out. You will always be able to see them on into the future. They do not become invisible. Light will eventually reach us. Its as simple as that pnel. biggrin.gif

Distance is being created at an increasing rate. Objects are not moving apart pnel.

Mitch Raemsch -- Light Love --
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 05:26 AM)
What makes you sure we can't see the furthest object?

The miscalculation is not taking into account how long it took to get there. Right now they say that its distance in light years or the time it took light to reach us is the age of the universe. They left out the time it took to expand to get there.

I believe there is no reason we cannot see the most distant. What is your reason to believe that?

Mitch

I am not sure but it seem that galaxies can actually move up to twice the speed of light from each other before breaking the universal speed limit.

and why is it the farther we look into the expanse the faster the universe seems to expand when we are actually looking further into the past.
pnelson419
Every point in space occupies the same distance in time, varying slightly or in some cases greatly depending on the mass of an object, to any point in the universe. the is why the nature of the universe is a sphere.

The speed of light stays constant with the expansion of the universe. The rate of expansion controls nature's speed limit.

Time is anti-gravity. time and gravity are never equal to the individual. that is why we can measure time from one point to the next.

The universe is expanding and collapsing at the same time and time is moving forward and backwards at the same rate. This is how we can live in 3D space.

This is our reality explained.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 3 2007, 05:55 AM)
I am not sure but it seem that galaxies can actually move up to twice the speed of light from each other before breaking the universal speed limit.

and why is it the farther we look into the expanse the faster the universe seems to expand when we are actually looking further into the past.

The galaxies are not moving through space cosmologically speaking. Distance is being created instead.
Nick
The past isn't in the distance pnel. Old light is. smile.gif
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 08:24 PM)
The galaxies are not moving through space cosmologically speaking. Distance is being created instead.

if distance is being created faster than light travel eventually the light from the two object will not reach each other

will it
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 3 2007, 08:27 PM)
The past isn't in the distance pnel. Old light is. smile.gif

I know it only perceived past but it is still observable
pnelson419
I am surprised that writing my fundamental principal of the universe and stating this is our reality explained that I didn't get a reply asking to explain that. maybe it was just lack of interest. I dont know.

I think that only actions can be quantified and results in our reality.

I believe the meaning of are life is a lot more than our reality, although our conscience decisions cause actions that result in consequences
Nick
The very reason Einstein combined space and time into a space-time continuum is because it takes time for light to travel a distance. Thus you are seeing their past.
Nick
Time and light interact in gravity. If light enters slower time it gets more energetic or blueshifted as it comes out of slower time into faster time it gets less energetic. Since there is a fastest time there is an invariant light-time-energy that is the basis of THE ALL.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 12:28 AM)
Time and light interact in gravity. If light enters slower time it gets more energetic or blueshifted as it comes out of slower time into faster time it gets less energetic. Since there is a fastest time there is an invariant light-time-energy that is the basis of THE ALL.

I think time interacts with gravity and that light is effected by gravity and time.

I will use a black hole for example.

When gravity reaches a point where it is equal to time there is no time frame in which light to travel so the light will have eventually stopped reaching us.
Nick
I am sorry but there are no black holes. I will show you why if you let.

Black holes are defined by event horizons. Event horizons make nonsense predictions that I can show you. Nonsense predictions come out of black hole theory. Therefor there are no black holes.

The extreme of gravity can't capture light. It can always get out. At best it gets absorbed by the black POINT.


pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 01:29 AM)
I am sorry but there are no black holes. I will show you why if you let.

Black holes are defined by event horizons. Event horizons make nonsense predictions that I can show you. Nonsense predictions come out of black hole theory. Therefor there are no black holes.

The extreme of gravity can't capture light. It can always get out. At best it gets absorbed by the black POINT.

I think what you call space is actually an event horizon and that gravity can stretch it to a point of zero time and possibly even further into the past
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 01:37 AM)
I think what you call space is actually an event horizon and that gravity can stretch it to a point of zero time and possibly even further into the past

You are spouting nonsense. Time can't go backwards.

Gravity is space.

MITCH RAEMSCH
Nick
The nonsense prediction that event horizons and therefore black holes make is an infinite red shift to light known as the Einstein shift or gravitational red shift. Any light emitted at an event horizon would be energyless.

Dead photons?

MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 01:44 AM)
You are spouting nonsense. Time can't go backwards.

Gravity is space.

MITCH RAEMSCH

I dont know if there is enough gravity any where to do that, but in my idea of the universe it is possible.

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 01:54 AM)
The nonsense prediction that event horizons and therefore black holes make is an infinite red shift to light known as the Einstein shift or gravitational red shift. Any light emitted at an event horizon would be energyless.

Dead photons?

MITCH RAEMSCH -- LIGHT FELL --

not dead photons. photons that are at a dead stop in time, going very slow in time, or going back in time

the speed of light is relevant to our prospective
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 01:54 AM)
I dont know if there is enough gravity any where to do that, but in my idea of the universe it is possible.

NO. NOTHING CAN DO THAT.

Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:00 AM)
not dead photons. photons that are at a dead stop in time, going very slow in time, or going back in time

the speed of light is relevant to our prospective

NO ENERGYLESS photons.

PoppyCock.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:00 AM)
NO. NOTHING CAN DO THAT.

I can agree that in theory zero time is impossible. but actually nothing is impossible
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:05 AM)
I can agree that in theory zero time is impossible. but actually nothing is impossible

AND how do you know?

Is that God or is that the universe? I have to ask.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:08 AM)
AND how do you know?

Is that God or is that the universe? I have to ask.

I dont know, I THINK, SO I AM
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:12 AM)
I dont know, I THINK, SO I AM

ALL things are possible but you aren't right about black holes pnel. There are no event horizons.

MITCH RAEMSCH
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:27 AM)
ALL things are possible but you aren't right about black holes pnel. There are no event horizons.

MITCH RAEMSCH

YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT THERE ARE MANY WHO WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU

pnelson419
my idea of the universe make a lot of sense to me so you would need to make things simple to understand to change any of my oppinions
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:30 AM)
YOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT THERE ARE MANY WHO WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU

If I can show that event horizons predict nonsense like I have told you. They will be disagreeing unfounded.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:33 AM)
my idea of the universe make a lot of sense to me so you would need to make things simple to understand to change any of my oppinions

Let me put it this way: you have time backwards.
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:37 AM)
If I can show that event horizons predict nonsense like I have told you. They will be disagreeing unfounded.

how can you disprove it exists
pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:40 AM)
Let me put it this way: you have time backwards.

how is that. it agrees with my model. sometime they seem backward because I believe time is always going in two direction from a singe point and work the same either way
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:48 AM)
how is that. it agrees with my model. sometime they seem backward because I believe time is always going in two direction from a singe point and work the same either way

You know you ask me to be simple but you are rather complicated.

What I wrote about time-light-energy will be important to science in the future in my opinion.

I will be as simple as I can: there is a fastest time benchmark. And that is light itself. Time can only slow from there.

pnelson419
QUOTE (Nick+Aug 4 2007, 02:52 AM)
You know you ask me to be simple but you are rather complicated.

What I wrote about time-light-energy will be important to science in the future in my opinion.

I will be as simple as I can: there is a fastest time benchmark. And that is light itself. Time can only slow from there.

My ideas are simple to me as I guess yours are to you. but for learning sake I will try to undertand your concept whether or not I believe them.
Nick
QUOTE (pnelson419+Aug 4 2007, 02:59 AM)
My ideas are simple to me as I guess yours are to you. but for learning sake I will try to undertand your concept whether or not I believe them.

It would be helpful if you told me what you don't believe otherwise I cannot address it.

You know you asked why no one questioned your fundamental principle on how the universe works. I ask then How does it? But realize I am slow. What is the fundemntal principle?

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