After I posted on the thread "Regarding The Forum Mafia And Thier Affiliates", I received insulting posts on a thread I created. The posts were from an id called 'commonsensical'.
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5565&st=180
I reported this to the moderators.
Form your own opinion. Thank You.
We would never stoop that low! How could you accuse us of such a thing? 
Even if he/she is a sockpuppet, I have no idea who's it is.
- Gehn
Even if he/she is a sockpuppet, I have no idea who's it is.
- Gehn
QUOTE (Gehn+)
We would never stoop that low! How could you accuse us of such a thing?
I did not accuse you. I am asking the members on this forum to form their own opinion.
I did not accuse you. I am asking the members on this forum to form their own opinion.
No, it's not me. 
Nor I. The only sockpuppet I ever hatched was banned by the mods when he was just a baby. 
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 9 2007, 10:16 PM)
QUOTE (Gehn+)
We would never stoop that low! How could you accuse us of such a thing?
I did not accuse you. I am asking the members on this forum to form their own opinion.
Don't worry, I didn't think you were. I just meant that you were suggesting that it was a member of the Forum Mafia who did it. That would be the logical assumption, but anyway....
- Gehn
I did not accuse you. I am asking the members on this forum to form their own opinion.
Don't worry, I didn't think you were. I just meant that you were suggesting that it was a member of the Forum Mafia who did it. That would be the logical assumption, but anyway....
- Gehn
QUOTE (Sapo+Dec 9 2007, 11:14 PM)
Nor I. The only sockpuppet I ever hatched was banned by the mods when he was just a baby.
So was mine . Saying I was an alien from Mars come to kill all the Earthlings (Cranks first 
) was a bit much, I guess.
- Gehn
So was mine
. Saying I was an alien from Mars come to kill all the Earthlings (Cranks first ) was a bit much, I guess. - Gehn
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 9 2007, 09:41 PM)
After I posted on the thread "Regarding The Forum Mafia And Thier Affiliates", I received insulting posts on a thread I created. The posts were from an id called 'commonsensical'.
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5565&st=180
I reported this to the moderators.
Form your own opinion. Thank You.
Are you kidding? You think that was insulting?
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5565&st=180
I reported this to the moderators.
Form your own opinion. Thank You.
Are you kidding? You think that was insulting?
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Are you kidding? You think that was insulting?
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
QUOTE (Gehn+Dec 10 2007, 01:10 PM)
So was mine . Saying I was an alien from Mars come to kill all the Earthlings (Cranks first) was a bit much, I guess.
- Gehn
That was you? Unimaginable. 
- Gehn
That was you? Unimaginable.
History: 3 posts (only one still visible)
Warnings: 2
I don't think this is a sock puppet of an experienced forum mafia member. And based on the remaining one message, I do not see a commonality of style with anyone I pay attention to. (Not that the Forum Mafia badge is a symbol of quality -- just that I do not recognize the poster.)
Also, if this person does not actually know your parents, the slurs cast in your parents' direction should carry very little weight.
Warnings: 2
I don't think this is a sock puppet of an experienced forum mafia member. And based on the remaining one message, I do not see a commonality of style with anyone I pay attention to. (Not that the Forum Mafia badge is a symbol of quality -- just that I do not recognize the poster.)
Also, if this person does not actually know your parents, the slurs cast in your parents' direction should carry very little weight.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 07:06 PM)
QUOTE (occidental+)
Are you kidding? You think that was insulting?
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
Ok, fair enough, I didnt know anything was deleted. But just the same, if it was deleted, then its gone and you have been vindicated. Instead, by your way, you have done more to spread the comments(I assume lies?) about your parents.
Sometimes you just have to let it go.
Precisely! Any idiot can spill a few words into the air and make a noise. It takes a little more than noise to find meaning, let alone truth and understanding. In this case, the correct procedure was rapidly attended to, so well done to those who could.
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
But it wasn't a Forum Mafia member. We have style, that guy doesn't .
- Gehn
Since you are asking for opinions, my opinion is that someone disagrees with you and you immediately start throwing around baseless accusations like a little child. Maybe you missed the last 5000 posts, but it seems to me the forum mafia will tell you straight up if your idea is stupid.
Get a grip and deal with it in some other way than starting a whole new thread to whine about it.
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
Ok, fair enough, I didnt know anything was deleted. But just the same, if it was deleted, then its gone and you have been vindicated. Instead, by your way, you have done more to spread the comments(I assume lies?) about your parents.
Sometimes you just have to let it go.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Ok, fair enough, I didnt know anything was deleted. But just the same, if it was deleted, then its gone and you have been vindicated. Instead, by your way, you have done more to spread the comments(I assume lies?) about your parents.
Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing.
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing.
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
QUOTE
Also, if this person does not actually know your parents, the slurs cast in your parents' direction should carry very little weight.
Precisely! Any idiot can spill a few words into the air and make a noise. It takes a little more than noise to find meaning, let alone truth and understanding. In this case, the correct procedure was rapidly attended to, so well done to those who could.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 07:54 PM)
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
But it wasn't a Forum Mafia member. We have style, that guy doesn't
.- Gehn
QUOTE (Gehn+Dec 10 2007, 02:59 PM)
But it wasn't a Forum Mafia member. We have style, that guy doesn't .
- Gehn
Damn straight. As a rule, we'll call you an idiot, but only after pointing out why.
Sure wasn't me, I have no use for sockpuppets, and GENEUS and whoever's pulling his strings is accomplishing nothing more than giving us a bad name.
.- Gehn
Damn straight. As a rule, we'll call you an idiot, but only after pointing out why.
Sure wasn't me, I have no use for sockpuppets, and GENEUS and whoever's pulling his strings is accomplishing nothing more than giving us a bad name.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 07:54 PM)
QUOTE (occidental+)
Ok, fair enough, I didnt know anything was deleted. But just the same, if it was deleted, then its gone and you have been vindicated. Instead, by your way, you have done more to spread the comments(I assume lies?) about your parents.
Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing.
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
Now Im confused. You said this
and you said this:
and you said this:
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
And now you are saying this:
So why did you report that person?
So why did you report that person?
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia
I dont understand what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of singling out individuals for being offensive or insulting? So where is the line and what are the acceptable consequences?
Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing.
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
Now Im confused. You said this
QUOTE
I WANT TO MENTION HERE THAT commonsensical HAD POSTED SEVERAL INSULTS TO ME AND MY PARENTS. THESE HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY THE MODERATORS AFTER I REPORTED IT.
and you said this:
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I WANT TO MENTION HERE THAT commonsensical HAD POSTED SEVERAL INSULTS TO ME AND MY PARENTS. THESE HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY THE MODERATORS AFTER I REPORTED IT. |
and you said this:
The insulting posts have been removed by the moderators.
He insulted my parents called me a name which is something equivalent of a pimp.
And now you are saying this:
QUOTE
Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing.
So why did you report that person?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Some juvenile making immature comments does not insults my parents. It only betrays their own up-bringing. |
So why did you report that person?
By creating this thread, I have removed any misconception anyone may have about this group called Forum Mafia
I dont understand what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
QUOTE
(who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of singling out individuals for being offensive or insulting? So where is the line and what are the acceptable consequences?
QUOTE (occidental+)
So why did you report that person?
You seem to be more interested in nitpicking my posts rather than address the issue at hand (which is behavior of certain people on this forum). I wonder what your motivation could be?
You seem to be more interested in nitpicking my posts rather than address the issue at hand (which is behavior of certain people on this forum). I wonder what your motivation could be?
QUOTE (occidental+)
Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of singling out individuals for being offensive or insulting? So where is the line and what are the acceptable consequences?
Just goes to prove that you don't know where the line is.
Just goes to prove that you don't know where the line is.
Since vkamath has decided not to answer your questions, Occidental, I will leap in with what I think are the correct answers.
Because that person insulted him personally, and dared to disagree with him.
I honestly don't blame him for that first part, if someone just started hurling names at me (other than m0r0n or idiot or other such insults that refer to the recipient's intelligence) without any explanation as to why, I'd report them too.
I do blame him for the second part, though.
Because that person insulted him personally, and dared to disagree with him.
I honestly don't blame him for that first part, if someone just started hurling names at me (other than m0r0n or idiot or other such insults that refer to the recipient's intelligence) without any explanation as to why, I'd report them too.
I do blame him for the second part, though.
I dont understand what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
Well, since VK has been insulted by someone, that person is "obviously" a member of the FM, and since that person is an "obvious" member of the FM, they are also "obviously" stupid and childish. Thus, by bringing attention to the fact that this person insulted him, he's showing the FMs "true" colors.
Yes, VK seems to think that it's ok to insult and be offensive, as long as it's not directed at him, or anyone he likes. So long as insults, accusations and offensive remarks are directed at those he dislikes (in this case, the FM) they are perfectly acceptable.
I hope I've managed to help! I do so love to be helpful...
vkamath, if I got any answers wrong, feel free to correct me. Please answer the question truthfully in your own words, however (answers I await with breathless anticipation) and not just say "BDW's wrong and he's a doodoohead to boot."
You seem to be more interested in nitpicking my posts rather than address the issue at hand (which is behavior of certain people on this forum). I wonder what your motivation could be?
My motivation is to point out your hypocracy.
Well, I was asking a question.
QUOTE
So why did you report that person?
Because that person insulted him personally, and dared to disagree with him.
I honestly don't blame him for that first part, if someone just started hurling names at me (other than m0r0n or idiot or other such insults that refer to the recipient's intelligence) without any explanation as to why, I'd report them too.
I do blame him for the second part, though.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| So why did you report that person? |
Because that person insulted him personally, and dared to disagree with him.
I honestly don't blame him for that first part, if someone just started hurling names at me (other than m0r0n or idiot or other such insults that refer to the recipient's intelligence) without any explanation as to why, I'd report them too.
I do blame him for the second part, though.
I dont understand what you mean by that. Could you be more specific?
Well, since VK has been insulted by someone, that person is "obviously" a member of the FM, and since that person is an "obvious" member of the FM, they are also "obviously" stupid and childish. Thus, by bringing attention to the fact that this person insulted him, he's showing the FMs "true" colors.
QUOTE
Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of singling out individuals for being offensive or insulting? So where is the line and what are the acceptable consequences?
Yes, VK seems to think that it's ok to insult and be offensive, as long as it's not directed at him, or anyone he likes. So long as insults, accusations and offensive remarks are directed at those he dislikes (in this case, the FM) they are perfectly acceptable.
I hope I've managed to help! I do so love to be helpful...
vkamath, if I got any answers wrong, feel free to correct me. Please answer the question truthfully in your own words, however (answers I await with breathless anticipation) and not just say "BDW's wrong and he's a doodoohead to boot."
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 09:01 PM)
You seem to be more interested in nitpicking my posts rather than address the issue at hand (which is behavior of certain people on this forum). I wonder what your motivation could be?
My motivation is to point out your hypocracy.
QUOTE
Just goes to prove that you don't know where the line is.
Well, I was asking a question.
QUOTE (occidental+)
My motivation is to point out your hypocracy.
There is no hypocrisy if you know where the line is. Obviously you don't.
There is no hypocrisy if you know where the line is. Obviously you don't.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 09:32 PM)
QUOTE (occidental+)
My motivation is to point out your hypocracy.
There is no hypocrisy if you know where the line is. Obviously you don't.
I thought we already established that point. Obviously I dont, or else I wouldnt have been asking the question.
So where is the line, and what are the acceptable consequences?
For you, it seems the line is at personal insults. The acceptable consequences appear to include name calling, and the use of the report function(I'm fond of that one myself). You also appear to be ok with starting threads calling out individuals you dont like, as well as making many accusations(apparently unsupported).
Clearly the line is different for different people, and clearly the line for acceptable consequences are different for different people. But is there somewhere that we can all agree?
I think we have come to some agreement on this point. Pictures of retarded people is off limits. But did we decide about angry dwarves?
I think we have come to some agreement on this point. Pictures of retarded people is off limits. But did we decide about angry dwarves?
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
Yeah, I guess for the most part I agree with this. I admit I have done this on another board to make a point, but always with the intent of admitting to it(which I always did). Its a very effective tool to pound home a point. Funny,too. But I agree that for the most part its a bad idea.
On the surface that looks like it makes sense, but in reality it doesnt. Many people seem really confused about this idea of freedom of speech. Think of it this way- you wont be imprisoned, tortured, or killed for what you say. As for what someone says to you on a message board? Get over it. Now be happy that you have freedom of speech.
On the surface that looks like it makes sense, but in reality it doesnt. Many people seem really confused about this idea of freedom of speech. Think of it this way- you wont be imprisoned, tortured, or killed for what you say. As for what someone says to you on a message board? Get over it. Now be happy that you have freedom of speech.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
Im not sure where you would be going with this idea. People often form groups based on common beliefs. All I know is that this reply would be a lot more interesting with some colorful pictures and nicely laid out diagrams.
There is no hypocrisy if you know where the line is. Obviously you don't.
I thought we already established that point. Obviously I dont, or else I wouldnt have been asking the question.
So where is the line, and what are the acceptable consequences?
For you, it seems the line is at personal insults. The acceptable consequences appear to include name calling, and the use of the report function(I'm fond of that one myself). You also appear to be ok with starting threads calling out individuals you dont like, as well as making many accusations(apparently unsupported).
Clearly the line is different for different people, and clearly the line for acceptable consequences are different for different people. But is there somewhere that we can all agree?
QUOTE (Gehn+Dec 10 2007, 02:10 PM)
So was mine . Saying I was an alien from Mars come to kill all the Earthlings (Cranks first ) was a bit much, I guess.
Gehn,
That was you?
For what it's worth, You did get allot of mileage from the Marven Martian guy.
He was funny as hell.
I'd give you a positive feed back for him but that would be just too strange.
. Saying I was an alien from Mars come to kill all the Earthlings (Cranks first ) was a bit much, I guess. Gehn,
That was you?
For what it's worth, You did get allot of mileage from the Marven Martian guy.
He was funny as hell.
I'd give you a positive feed back for him but that would be just too strange.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Clearly the line is different for different people, and clearly the line for acceptable consequences are different for different people. But is there somewhere that we can all agree?
I agree it is hard to draw the line. I think we can agree to the following
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example).
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
I agree it is hard to draw the line. I think we can agree to the following
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example).
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 10 2007, 10:30 PM)
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
Many of you sensitive types clearly go too far. Vocal and even vulgar opposition to anyone's ideas is not a violation of freedom of speech, but a celebration of it.
There are some on this board who believe quoting accepted definitions from scientific and mathematics works is a violation of their freedom to invent vague and misleading notation. (One person, I notice used lambda to represent frequency and nu to represent wavelength.) There are some who claim that insisting that they support their claims with logic and evidence is an undue burden.
To such people, I remind them that freedom of speech has as a corollary a freedom to not listen. Nothing in "freedom of speech" requires that people must sit around quietly listening and agreeing wholeheartedly. Science is a discipline with a language of its own and respect no authority but does respect evidence and logic.
Many of you sensitive types clearly go too far. Vocal and even vulgar opposition to anyone's ideas is not a violation of freedom of speech, but a celebration of it.
There are some on this board who believe quoting accepted definitions from scientific and mathematics works is a violation of their freedom to invent vague and misleading notation. (One person, I notice used lambda to represent frequency and nu to represent wavelength.) There are some who claim that insisting that they support their claims with logic and evidence is an undue burden.
To such people, I remind them that freedom of speech has as a corollary a freedom to not listen. Nothing in "freedom of speech" requires that people must sit around quietly listening and agreeing wholeheartedly. Science is a discipline with a language of its own and respect no authority but does respect evidence and logic.
QUOTE
I agree it is hard to draw the line. I think we can agree to the following
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example)
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example)
I think we have come to some agreement on this point. Pictures of retarded people is off limits. But did we decide about angry dwarves?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I agree it is hard to draw the line. I think we can agree to the following 1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example) |
I think we have come to some agreement on this point. Pictures of retarded people is off limits. But did we decide about angry dwarves?
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
Yeah, I guess for the most part I agree with this. I admit I have done this on another board to make a point, but always with the intent of admitting to it(which I always did). Its a very effective tool to pound home a point. Funny,too. But I agree that for the most part its a bad idea.
QUOTE
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
On the surface that looks like it makes sense, but in reality it doesnt. Many people seem really confused about this idea of freedom of speech. Think of it this way- you wont be imprisoned, tortured, or killed for what you say. As for what someone says to you on a message board? Get over it. Now be happy that you have freedom of speech.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| 3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank. |
On the surface that looks like it makes sense, but in reality it doesnt. Many people seem really confused about this idea of freedom of speech. Think of it this way- you wont be imprisoned, tortured, or killed for what you say. As for what someone says to you on a message board? Get over it. Now be happy that you have freedom of speech.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
Im not sure where you would be going with this idea. People often form groups based on common beliefs. All I know is that this reply would be a lot more interesting with some colorful pictures and nicely laid out diagrams.
QUOTE (rpenner+)
Vocal and even vulgar opposition to anyone's ideas is not a violation of freedom of speech, but a celebration of it.
I don't agree that a vulgar opposition is befitting a science forum. The problem with this kind of opposition is that it quickly descends into a shouting match due to the anonymity provided by the internet.
I don't agree that a vulgar opposition is befitting a science forum. The problem with this kind of opposition is that it quickly descends into a shouting match due to the anonymity provided by the internet.
QUOTE (rpenner+)
Nothing in "freedom of speech" requires that people must sit around quietly listening and agreeing wholeheartedly.
I agree.
I agree.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 11 2007, 10:30 AM)
I agree it is hard to draw the line. I think we can agree to the following
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example).
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
1. See Mr. Robin Parsons' posts as a reason for insults.
2. Agree with you on this
3 & 4. You are falsely accusing the FM of ganging up. We just happen to agree that certain people's posts are garbage. Freedom of speech is in no way prevented.
1) No posting insulting words or images as feedback (see feedback for Mr. Robin Parsons as an example).
2) No creating sock puppets to support your point or to post insults anonymously.
3) No trying to prevent freedom of speech by ganging up on a person whom you perceive to be a crank.
4) No forming groups within the forum to give positives or negatives (I think I am guilty of this starting today).
1. See Mr. Robin Parsons' posts as a reason for insults.
2. Agree with you on this
3 & 4. You are falsely accusing the FM of ganging up. We just happen to agree that certain people's posts are garbage. Freedom of speech is in no way prevented.
My 2 cents:
Freedom of speech does not necessitate freedom to be heeded.
Freedom of speech does not necessitate freedom to be heeded.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Im not sure where you would be going with this idea. People often form groups based on common beliefs. All I know is that this reply would be a lot more interesting with some colorful pictures and nicely laid out diagrams.
Studies have shown that when in a group, humans tend to let go of their own thinking and go with the group's dynamics.
This is how Lynching takes place (even today in some backward countries). Not all people involved in a lynch mob want to commit murder, but when in a group they do it without hesitation.
This example may be a bit too extreme, but the point is that when in a group people don't use their own brains fully.
Studies have shown that when in a group, humans tend to let go of their own thinking and go with the group's dynamics.
This is how Lynching takes place (even today in some backward countries). Not all people involved in a lynch mob want to commit murder, but when in a group they do it without hesitation.
This example may be a bit too extreme, but the point is that when in a group people don't use their own brains fully.
QUOTE
This example may be a bit too extreme
I agree that this example is too extreme. Please see response to point #3 regarding freedom of speech. QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| This example may be a bit too extreme |
I agree that this example is too extreme. Please see response to point #3 regarding freedom of speech. but the point is that when in a group people don't use their own brains fully.
This just looks to me like a thinly veiled insult for the forum mafia.
That being said, I understand your points about "group feedback" and "mob mentality", although I dont agree that its a problem.
I still think we have not identified where is the line, and what are the appropriate consequences for crossing it? Thinly veiled insults are ok? What about the dwarf issue? And lets be clear that we are talking about a ceramic dwarf here, not a real live "little person".
That being said, I understand your points about "group feedback" and "mob mentality", although I dont agree that its a problem.
I still think we have not identified where is the line, and what are the appropriate consequences for crossing it? Thinly veiled insults are ok? What about the dwarf issue? And lets be clear that we are talking about a ceramic dwarf here, not a real live "little person".
I can honestly say I have never given any single person a negative feedback simply because everybody else has.
Diddy call Violator as he was knocking on wood?
QUOTE (occidental+)
This just looks to me like a thinly veiled insult for the forum mafia.
Where is the insult? If someone told me I don't use my brains fully before I give feedback, I wouldn't take it as an insult.
It is strange after you explained me regarding what freedom of speech means, that you consider this (not using brains fully) as a insult.
Really? I would be insulted. Unless it was true. But thats not what you said.
Really? I would be insulted. Unless it was true. But thats not what you said.
but the point is that when in a group people don't use their own brains fully.
The problem is you have made a sweeping generalization that isnt even true. In my opinion, though, it makes sense if you meant it as an insult to what you percieve as the mob mentality of the forum mafia.
I completely agree with this statement.
I completely agree with this statement.
Dwarfs showing their middle finger or their posterior are definitely vulgar and not befitting a science forum.
Although I might agree with the first part, Im not convinced about the second part. I guess it depends on the context ie: was it funny at the time? And I think sometimes someone might really deserve to be given a picture of a ceramic angry dwarf giving the middle finger. It doesnt come up often, but I can see the appeal. A picture says a thousand words, you know. And who gets hurt by that?
Where is the insult? If someone told me I don't use my brains fully before I give feedback, I wouldn't take it as an insult.
It is strange after you explained me regarding what freedom of speech means, that you consider this (not using brains fully) as a insult.
QUOTE (occidental+)
What about the dwarf issue? And lets be clear that we are talking about a ceramic dwarf here, not a real live "little person".
Dwarfs showing their middle finger or their posterior are definitely vulgar and not befitting a science forum. They may be more appropriate in juvenile/teenager discussion forums.
The fact that we agree on some points proves that drawing a line is possible, though difficult.
Dwarfs showing their middle finger or their posterior are definitely vulgar and not befitting a science forum. They may be more appropriate in juvenile/teenager discussion forums.
The fact that we agree on some points proves that drawing a line is possible, though difficult.
QUOTE
QUOTE (occidental)
This just looks to me like a thinly veiled insult for the forum mafia.
Where is the insult? If someone told me I don't use my brains fully before I give feedback, I wouldn't take it as an insult.
This just looks to me like a thinly veiled insult for the forum mafia.
Where is the insult? If someone told me I don't use my brains fully before I give feedback, I wouldn't take it as an insult.
Really? I would be insulted. Unless it was true. But thats not what you said.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (occidental) This just looks to me like a thinly veiled insult for the forum mafia. Where is the insult? If someone told me I don't use my brains fully before I give feedback, I wouldn't take it as an insult. |
Really? I would be insulted. Unless it was true. But thats not what you said.
but the point is that when in a group people don't use their own brains fully.
The problem is you have made a sweeping generalization that isnt even true. In my opinion, though, it makes sense if you meant it as an insult to what you percieve as the mob mentality of the forum mafia.
QUOTE
The fact that we agree on some points proves that drawing a line is possible, though difficult.
I completely agree with this statement.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| The fact that we agree on some points proves that drawing a line is possible, though difficult. |
I completely agree with this statement.
Dwarfs showing their middle finger or their posterior are definitely vulgar and not befitting a science forum.
Although I might agree with the first part, Im not convinced about the second part. I guess it depends on the context ie: was it funny at the time? And I think sometimes someone might really deserve to be given a picture of a ceramic angry dwarf giving the middle finger. It doesnt come up often, but I can see the appeal. A picture says a thousand words, you know. And who gets hurt by that?
QUOTE (occidental+)
Really? I would be insulted. Unless it was true. But thats not what you said.
A lie is not the same as an insult. There were no harsh or vulgar words used.
A lie is not the same as an insult. There were no harsh or vulgar words used.
QUOTE (occidental+)
The problem is you have made a sweeping generalization that isnt even true. In my opinion, though, it makes sense if you meant it as an insult to what you percieve as the mob mentality of the forum mafia.
I was definitely referring to the forum mafia, but not as an insult.
It is a fact that when in a group, people don't behave in the same way as when they were alone. I gave an example of a lynch mob. Other examples: Nudists, suicidal cultists.
I was definitely referring to the forum mafia, but not as an insult.
It is a fact that when in a group, people don't behave in the same way as when they were alone. I gave an example of a lynch mob. Other examples: Nudists, suicidal cultists.
QUOTE (occidental+)
And I think sometimes someone might really deserve to be given a picture of a ceramic angry dwarf giving the middle finger. It doesnt come up often, but I can see the appeal. A picture says a thousand words, you know. And who gets hurt by that?
A middle finger only says 2 words, which are not befitting a science forum. There may be people who deserve it, but by that logic all rapists must be raped.
A middle finger only says 2 words, which are not befitting a science forum. There may be people who deserve it, but by that logic all rapists must be raped.
I want to mention here that commonsensical who posted the insults has apologized and I have accepted the apology. I don't see any point in dragging this thread any further. Thanks All
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 12 2007, 04:51 AM)
I want to mention here that commonsensical who posted the insults has apologized and I have accepted the apology. I don't see any point in dragging this thread any further. Thanks All
Great. Where is your apology for the title of your thread?
Great. Where is your apology for the title of your thread?
QUOTE (occidental+)
Great. Where is your apology for the title of your thread?
Why should I apologize for asking a question? I did not accuse, I asked the people on this forum to form their own opinion.
Why should I apologize for asking a question? I did not accuse, I asked the people on this forum to form their own opinion.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 12 2007, 06:46 PM)
QUOTE (occidental+)
Great. Where is your apology for the title of your thread?
Why should I apologize for asking a question? I did not accuse, I asked the people on this forum to form their own opinion.
I see. So, if you put a question mark after an accusation, that makes everything ok?
For example, Are you stupid?
My opinion is that you are being coy. Or are you a hypocrite?
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question.
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question, unless "sock puppet" is a compliment? Usually it is a derrogatory term used to describe a person pretending to be someone else. It is not usually used in a complimentary way.
This is an insulting accusation. Unless you think "sock puppet" is a nice thing to accuse someone of being. Somehow I dont think you do.
You appear to enjoy playing games with the english language. Why dont you just admit you take issue with the forum mafia and you dont like them? Then why dont you admit you use similar tactics as the forum mafia to express your displeasure. The difference, based on this,
This is an insulting accusation. Unless you think "sock puppet" is a nice thing to accuse someone of being. Somehow I dont think you do.
You appear to enjoy playing games with the english language. Why dont you just admit you take issue with the forum mafia and you dont like them? Then why dont you admit you use similar tactics as the forum mafia to express your displeasure. The difference, based on this,
It is a fact that when in a group, people don't behave in the same way as when they were alone. I gave an example of a lynch mob. Other examples: Nudists, suicidal cultists.
is that you are not a team player.
Why should I apologize for asking a question? I did not accuse, I asked the people on this forum to form their own opinion.
I see. So, if you put a question mark after an accusation, that makes everything ok?
For example, Are you stupid?
My opinion is that you are being coy. Or are you a hypocrite?
QUOTE (occidental+)
I see. So, if you put a question mark after an accusation, that makes everything ok?
For example, Are you stupid?
My opinion is that you are being coy. Or are you a hypocrite?
It seems you don't know the difference between an accusation, an insult and a question.
Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation
For example, Are you stupid?
My opinion is that you are being coy. Or are you a hypocrite?
It seems you don't know the difference between an accusation, an insult and a question.
Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 12 2007, 04:03 PM)
It seems you don't know the difference between an accusation, an insult and a question.
Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation
It seems you don't know the difference between an expressed accusation and an implied accusation.
Simply by asking the question you named this thread after, you are making an implied accusation. If, for example, you were to have posed the question "Who is commonsensical?" and someone were to have answered "A Forum Mafia sockpuppet." then there would have been no accusation on your part.
PS. I just LOVE the way you go around giving pos' to cranks and negs to FM members and those who agree with our views. At least we decide who to neg or pos on a case by case basis.
So much for your complaints about mob mentality... There's more dissention among who gets good or bad feedback amongst the FM than within that group of cranks so vehemently opposed to us. (4Dguy, StevenA, you, Mr. Robin Parsons, etc...)
Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation
It seems you don't know the difference between an expressed accusation and an implied accusation.
Simply by asking the question you named this thread after, you are making an implied accusation. If, for example, you were to have posed the question "Who is commonsensical?" and someone were to have answered "A Forum Mafia sockpuppet." then there would have been no accusation on your part.
PS. I just LOVE the way you go around giving pos' to cranks and negs to FM members and those who agree with our views. At least we decide who to neg or pos on a case by case basis.
So much for your complaints about mob mentality... There's more dissention among who gets good or bad feedback amongst the FM than within that group of cranks so vehemently opposed to us. (4Dguy, StevenA, you, Mr. Robin Parsons, etc...)
QUOTE
Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation.
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Are you stupid? - An insult more than a question or accusation. |
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question.
Is this a forum Mafia sock puppet? - A question
This is an insulting accusation in the form of a question, unless "sock puppet" is a compliment? Usually it is a derrogatory term used to describe a person pretending to be someone else. It is not usually used in a complimentary way.
QUOTE
The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation
This is an insulting accusation. Unless you think "sock puppet" is a nice thing to accuse someone of being. Somehow I dont think you do.
You appear to enjoy playing games with the english language. Why dont you just admit you take issue with the forum mafia and you dont like them? Then why dont you admit you use similar tactics as the forum mafia to express your displeasure. The difference, based on this,
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| The forum Mafia sock puppets did this to me - An accusation |
This is an insulting accusation. Unless you think "sock puppet" is a nice thing to accuse someone of being. Somehow I dont think you do.
You appear to enjoy playing games with the english language. Why dont you just admit you take issue with the forum mafia and you dont like them? Then why dont you admit you use similar tactics as the forum mafia to express your displeasure. The difference, based on this,
It is a fact that when in a group, people don't behave in the same way as when they were alone. I gave an example of a lynch mob. Other examples: Nudists, suicidal cultists.
is that you are not a team player.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
It seems you don't know the difference between an expressed accusation and an implied accusation.
Simply by asking the question you named this thread after, you are making an implied accusation. If, for example, you were to have posed the question "Who is commonsensical?" and someone were to have answered "A Forum Mafia sockpuppet." then there would have been no accusation on your part.
Oh...Have I crossed some moral line by questioning if someone from the Forum Mafia is a sock puppet?
If so, so be it.
PS. I just LOVE the way you go around giving pos' to cranks and negs to FM members and those who agree with our views. At least we decide who to neg or pos on a case by case basis.
So much for your complaints about mob mentality... There's more dissention among who gets good or bad feedback amongst the FM than within that group of cranks so vehemently opposed to us. (4Dguy, StevenA, you, Mr. Robin Parsons, etc...)
I have never given any Negs to any Forum Mafia unless they gave me one of their insulting and meaningless Negs first. Show me where I gave a Neg to someone for simply being the forum mafia?
By giving pos' to those perceived as cranks, I am setting straight the imbalance caused by the forum mafia giving them negs 1) multiple times and 2) as a group without using their own brains fully. For example Dallas has given multiple Negs to people with whom he hasn't even interacted.
Congratulations - Now the existence of Forum mafia is meaningless as they cannot change anything.
Simply by asking the question you named this thread after, you are making an implied accusation. If, for example, you were to have posed the question "Who is commonsensical?" and someone were to have answered "A Forum Mafia sockpuppet." then there would have been no accusation on your part.
Oh...Have I crossed some moral line by questioning if someone from the Forum Mafia is a sock puppet?
If so, so be it.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
PS. I just LOVE the way you go around giving pos' to cranks and negs to FM members and those who agree with our views. At least we decide who to neg or pos on a case by case basis.
So much for your complaints about mob mentality... There's more dissention among who gets good or bad feedback amongst the FM than within that group of cranks so vehemently opposed to us. (4Dguy, StevenA, you, Mr. Robin Parsons, etc...)
I have never given any Negs to any Forum Mafia unless they gave me one of their insulting and meaningless Negs first. Show me where I gave a Neg to someone for simply being the forum mafia?
By giving pos' to those perceived as cranks, I am setting straight the imbalance caused by the forum mafia giving them negs 1) multiple times and 2) as a group without using their own brains fully. For example Dallas has given multiple Negs to people with whom he hasn't even interacted.
Congratulations - Now the existence of Forum mafia is meaningless as they cannot change anything.
QUOTE (vkamath+Dec 12 2007, 04:25 PM)
Oh...Have I crossed some moral line by questioning if someone from the Forum Mafia is a sock puppet?
If so, so be it.
See what me and Occidental said about it. Or ignore our points. But if you choose to ignore, then you're tacitly admitting to holding yourself to a less rigorous standard than you hold others to, which is the very nature of hypocrisy.
Show me where I said you gave negs to people who haven't negged you.
As far as what I was actually referring to, let me quote your neg from Dallas' feedback page.
Show me where I said you gave negs to people who haven't negged you.
As far as what I was actually referring to, let me quote your neg from Dallas' feedback page.
MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys
You posted the same thing in Sapo's feedback just a few hours later. Not one mention of "cause you negged me."
And so on and so forth....
But I suppose you expect me to believe that "MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys" is neither insulting nor meaningless, and it capably expresses your intent of merely "returning the favor" of a negative feedback.
The "imbalance" is caused by the cranks posting crankery. I suppose you think that simply giving someone a neg is cause for you to neg the giver... Well, as long as the giver isn't someone you like. I suppose you also think cranks contribute valuable information to this board, since you seem to want them to have high feedback scores.
I still notice you resort to accusing the FM of "not using their brains fully" for deciding to neg someone after reading some inane drivel they've posted, but don't see the sheer hypocrisy in you going out and giving negs and positives for no reason other than to spite the FM. Why don't you show how the people you have negged have failed to contribute to this forum? I know why. Because you can't. Dallas has posted more physics than you even know, and yet you negged him because he thinks you don't know physics, and because you hate the FM. You negged me because I negged you, which is the dumbest reason I can think of. I've never given a neg out without a reason, and I usually cite that reason in the neg. Nor do I pretend that my judgment is absolute, and final. Ask Confused2 about that.
I give negs to people who don't know science but act like they do, to people who ignore logic in forming an argument, and to people who bring up idiotic "points" as if simply by uttering them, they destroy their opposition.
You give negs because people negged you. And to spite the FM.
Which of us has a more valid reason?
Oh, and just for the record, I'm FM and I've never once given someone a neg just because Dallas or Alpha or N O M, or Sapo, or Trippy has. Not once. Mob mentality my @$$.
The "imbalance" is caused by the cranks posting crankery. I suppose you think that simply giving someone a neg is cause for you to neg the giver... Well, as long as the giver isn't someone you like. I suppose you also think cranks contribute valuable information to this board, since you seem to want them to have high feedback scores.
I still notice you resort to accusing the FM of "not using their brains fully" for deciding to neg someone after reading some inane drivel they've posted, but don't see the sheer hypocrisy in you going out and giving negs and positives for no reason other than to spite the FM. Why don't you show how the people you have negged have failed to contribute to this forum? I know why. Because you can't. Dallas has posted more physics than you even know, and yet you negged him because he thinks you don't know physics, and because you hate the FM. You negged me because I negged you, which is the dumbest reason I can think of. I've never given a neg out without a reason, and I usually cite that reason in the neg. Nor do I pretend that my judgment is absolute, and final. Ask Confused2 about that.
I give negs to people who don't know science but act like they do, to people who ignore logic in forming an argument, and to people who bring up idiotic "points" as if simply by uttering them, they destroy their opposition.
You give negs because people negged you. And to spite the FM.
Which of us has a more valid reason?
Oh, and just for the record, I'm FM and I've never once given someone a neg just because Dallas or Alpha or N O M, or Sapo, or Trippy has. Not once. Mob mentality my @$$.
Congratulations - Now the existence of Forum mafia is meaningless as they cannot change anything.
Umm... Yeesh. How immature can you be? You honestly think you can singlehandedly counteract every neg posted by a group of people that outnumber you at least 5 to 1? Or that the FM was ever "meaningful" in the first place?
If so, so be it.
See what me and Occidental said about it. Or ignore our points. But if you choose to ignore, then you're tacitly admitting to holding yourself to a less rigorous standard than you hold others to, which is the very nature of hypocrisy.
QUOTE
I have never given any Negs to any Forum Mafia unless they gave me one of their insulting and meaningless Negs first. Show me where I gave a Neg to someone for simply being the forum mafia?
Show me where I said you gave negs to people who haven't negged you.
As far as what I was actually referring to, let me quote your neg from Dallas' feedback page.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I have never given any Negs to any Forum Mafia unless they gave me one of their insulting and meaningless Negs first. Show me where I gave a Neg to someone for simply being the forum mafia? |
Show me where I said you gave negs to people who haven't negged you.
As far as what I was actually referring to, let me quote your neg from Dallas' feedback page.
MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys
You posted the same thing in Sapo's feedback just a few hours later. Not one mention of "cause you negged me."
And so on and so forth....
But I suppose you expect me to believe that "MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys" is neither insulting nor meaningless, and it capably expresses your intent of merely "returning the favor" of a negative feedback.
QUOTE
By giving pos' to cranks, I am setting straight the imbalance caused by the forum mafia giving them negs 1) multiple times and 2) as a group without using their own brains fully. For example Dallas has given multiple Negs to people with whom he hasn't even interacted.
The "imbalance" is caused by the cranks posting crankery. I suppose you think that simply giving someone a neg is cause for you to neg the giver... Well, as long as the giver isn't someone you like. I suppose you also think cranks contribute valuable information to this board, since you seem to want them to have high feedback scores.
I still notice you resort to accusing the FM of "not using their brains fully" for deciding to neg someone after reading some inane drivel they've posted, but don't see the sheer hypocrisy in you going out and giving negs and positives for no reason other than to spite the FM. Why don't you show how the people you have negged have failed to contribute to this forum? I know why. Because you can't. Dallas has posted more physics than you even know, and yet you negged him because he thinks you don't know physics, and because you hate the FM. You negged me because I negged you, which is the dumbest reason I can think of. I've never given a neg out without a reason, and I usually cite that reason in the neg. Nor do I pretend that my judgment is absolute, and final. Ask Confused2 about that.
I give negs to people who don't know science but act like they do, to people who ignore logic in forming an argument, and to people who bring up idiotic "points" as if simply by uttering them, they destroy their opposition.
You give negs because people negged you. And to spite the FM.
Which of us has a more valid reason?
Oh, and just for the record, I'm FM and I've never once given someone a neg just because Dallas or Alpha or N O M, or Sapo, or Trippy has. Not once. Mob mentality my @$$.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| By giving pos' to cranks, I am setting straight the imbalance caused by the forum mafia giving them negs 1) multiple times and 2) as a group without using their own brains fully. For example Dallas has given multiple Negs to people with whom he hasn't even interacted. |
The "imbalance" is caused by the cranks posting crankery. I suppose you think that simply giving someone a neg is cause for you to neg the giver... Well, as long as the giver isn't someone you like. I suppose you also think cranks contribute valuable information to this board, since you seem to want them to have high feedback scores.
I still notice you resort to accusing the FM of "not using their brains fully" for deciding to neg someone after reading some inane drivel they've posted, but don't see the sheer hypocrisy in you going out and giving negs and positives for no reason other than to spite the FM. Why don't you show how the people you have negged have failed to contribute to this forum? I know why. Because you can't. Dallas has posted more physics than you even know, and yet you negged him because he thinks you don't know physics, and because you hate the FM. You negged me because I negged you, which is the dumbest reason I can think of. I've never given a neg out without a reason, and I usually cite that reason in the neg. Nor do I pretend that my judgment is absolute, and final. Ask Confused2 about that.
I give negs to people who don't know science but act like they do, to people who ignore logic in forming an argument, and to people who bring up idiotic "points" as if simply by uttering them, they destroy their opposition.
You give negs because people negged you. And to spite the FM.
Which of us has a more valid reason?
Oh, and just for the record, I'm FM and I've never once given someone a neg just because Dallas or Alpha or N O M, or Sapo, or Trippy has. Not once. Mob mentality my @$$.
Congratulations - Now the existence of Forum mafia is meaningless as they cannot change anything.
Umm... Yeesh. How immature can you be? You honestly think you can singlehandedly counteract every neg posted by a group of people that outnumber you at least 5 to 1? Or that the FM was ever "meaningful" in the first place?
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
See what me and Occidental said about it. Or ignore our points. But if you choose to ignore, then you're tacitly admitting to holding yourself to a less rigorous standard than you hold others to, which is the very nature of hypocrisy.
So now the forum mafia have become the authorities on what is the right behavior on this forum? That is irony wrapped in an hypocrisy for you.
So now the forum mafia have become the authorities on what is the right behavior on this forum? That is irony wrapped in an hypocrisy for you.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
You posted the same thing in Sapo's feedback just a few hours later. Not one mention of "cause you negged me."
And so on and so forth....
But I suppose you expect me to believe that "MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys" is neither insulting nor meaningless, and it capably expresses your intent of merely "returning the favor" of a negative feedback.
I find my definition of MoFM (Member of the Forum Monkeys) more funnier, just like you find the vulgar images posted by the FM funny.
And so on and so forth....
But I suppose you expect me to believe that "MoFM - Member of the Forum Monkeys" is neither insulting nor meaningless, and it capably expresses your intent of merely "returning the favor" of a negative feedback.
I find my definition of MoFM (Member of the Forum Monkeys) more funnier, just like you find the vulgar images posted by the FM funny.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
I still notice you resort to accusing the FM of "not using their brains fully" for deciding to neg someone after reading some inane drivel they've posted, but don't see the sheer hypocrisy in you going out and giving negs and positives for no reason other than to spite the FM.
I explained the rationale behind the way I give pos' and negs. But you refuse to accept it.
I explained the rationale behind the way I give pos' and negs. But you refuse to accept it.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
I suppose you think that simply giving someone a neg is cause for you to neg the giver...
At-least that rationale is better than giving a neg to someone because they gave a neg to a member of your gang. I am not accusing you in person for it, but the FM does that.
At-least that rationale is better than giving a neg to someone because they gave a neg to a member of your gang. I am not accusing you in person for it, but the FM does that.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
You negged me because I negged you, which is the dumbest reason I can think of.
I explained in your feedback why I negged you. But you refuse to accept it.
You didnt cross my line, but I think you crossed yours.
Heres my problem with you, vkamath. You go around whining about how the forum mafia is somehow out of line with their accusations. Then you go around and spew accusations that turn out to be unfounded. You were wrong, yet you dont see any need to apologize. And on top of it, and this is what annoys me, you wont even take any responsibility for what you have said.
You have called people names, yet you whine about how horrible it is that others call people names. For example,you said
You didnt cross my line, but I think you crossed yours.
Heres my problem with you, vkamath. You go around whining about how the forum mafia is somehow out of line with their accusations. Then you go around and spew accusations that turn out to be unfounded. You were wrong, yet you dont see any need to apologize. And on top of it, and this is what annoys me, you wont even take any responsibility for what you have said.
You have called people names, yet you whine about how horrible it is that others call people names. For example,you said
A middle finger only says 2 words, which are not befitting a science forum. There may be people who deserve it, but by that logic all rapists must be raped.
Yet you have said this
So is your logic that all namecallers should be called names? So much for it being a science forum, eh?
So how are you somehow better than the forum mafia?
And understand that I am not defending the forum mafia-they dont need me to do that for them. Im just calling you out because I dont like hypocrites. And I think the issue of where is the line and what is an appropriate response is a valid question, even if you want this thread to go away.(which I dont blame you for-you should be embarrased).
Maybe this is an arguable point, but I don't think science respects vulgarity. imo, men and women of science are beholden to greater integrity. Yes we are all human, but vulgarity is an emotional reaction not a logical and sensible one. imo, the scientist who is on the receiving end of vulgarity realizes the inappropriateness of responding in kind, and failure to adhere to this is a weakness meriting correction, and in principle they should not adulterate the discipline that they have become a spokesperson of. I take it you are indeed a man of science. I've never seen vulgarity from you, regardless of the protracted arguments you have been in. My two cents.
I explained in your feedback why I negged you. But you refuse to accept it.
QUOTE (BigDumbWeirdo+)
You honestly think you can singlehandedly counteract every neg posted by a group of people that outnumber you at least 5 to 1?
All you FM need to do is continue your behaviour for the counter mafia to outnumber you.
All you FM need to do is continue your behaviour for the counter mafia to outnumber you.
QUOTE
Oh...Have I crossed some moral line by questioning if someone from the Forum Mafia is a sock puppet?
You didnt cross my line, but I think you crossed yours.
Heres my problem with you, vkamath. You go around whining about how the forum mafia is somehow out of line with their accusations. Then you go around and spew accusations that turn out to be unfounded. You were wrong, yet you dont see any need to apologize. And on top of it, and this is what annoys me, you wont even take any responsibility for what you have said.
You have called people names, yet you whine about how horrible it is that others call people names. For example,you said
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Oh...Have I crossed some moral line by questioning if someone from the Forum Mafia is a sock puppet? |
You didnt cross my line, but I think you crossed yours.
Heres my problem with you, vkamath. You go around whining about how the forum mafia is somehow out of line with their accusations. Then you go around and spew accusations that turn out to be unfounded. You were wrong, yet you dont see any need to apologize. And on top of it, and this is what annoys me, you wont even take any responsibility for what you have said.
You have called people names, yet you whine about how horrible it is that others call people names. For example,you said
A middle finger only says 2 words, which are not befitting a science forum. There may be people who deserve it, but by that logic all rapists must be raped.
Yet you have said this
QUOTE
about this group called Forum Mafia (who I like to refer to as the Forum Monkeys).
So is your logic that all namecallers should be called names? So much for it being a science forum, eh?
So how are you somehow better than the forum mafia?
And understand that I am not defending the forum mafia-they dont need me to do that for them. Im just calling you out because I dont like hypocrites. And I think the issue of where is the line and what is an appropriate response is a valid question, even if you want this thread to go away.(which I dont blame you for-you should be embarrased).
QUOTE
Science is a discipline with a language of its own and respect no authority but does respect evidence and logic.
Maybe this is an arguable point, but I don't think science respects vulgarity. imo, men and women of science are beholden to greater integrity. Yes we are all human, but vulgarity is an emotional reaction not a logical and sensible one. imo, the scientist who is on the receiving end of vulgarity realizes the inappropriateness of responding in kind, and failure to adhere to this is a weakness meriting correction, and in principle they should not adulterate the discipline that they have become a spokesperson of. I take it you are indeed a man of science. I've never seen vulgarity from you, regardless of the protracted arguments you have been in. My two cents.
Vkamath,
Now I remember why I stopped arguing with you in the forum mafia question thread...
As long as you avoid responding directly to any point I make, you'll ensure that I have no respect for you.
I have responded to every point you've tried to make, and so far, you've done nothing but run around in circles, making accusations and ignoring anything which illustrates your fallacies. Look at that first quote in my signature, the one I credit to myself (because I said it) and try to remember it.
Now I remember why I stopped arguing with you in the forum mafia question thread...
As long as you avoid responding directly to any point I make, you'll ensure that I have no respect for you.
I have responded to every point you've tried to make, and so far, you've done nothing but run around in circles, making accusations and ignoring anything which illustrates your fallacies. Look at that first quote in my signature, the one I credit to myself (because I said it) and try to remember it.
QUOTE (occidental+)
You didnt cross my line, but I think you crossed yours.
You know what, I agree with you. I might have, but only against the FM.
You know what, I agree with you. I might have, but only against the FM.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Then you go around and spew accusations that turn out to be unfounded. You were wrong, yet you dont see any need to apologize.
Unfounded? How can you be certain of that? commonsensical apologized to me. I accepted it without questioning if he belonged to the FM or not.
Unfounded? How can you be certain of that? commonsensical apologized to me. I accepted it without questioning if he belonged to the FM or not.
QUOTE (occidental+)
So is your logic that all namecallers should be called names? So much for it being a science forum, eh?
No, I don't think name callers must be called names. I accept that I have called the FM one name - Monkeys. That is a far cry from what the FM posts as feedback. You seem to be focusing on my actions while completely ignoring the FM's actions. Isn't that called hypocrisy?
So if you think I am going to apologize for calling them monkeys, think again.
No, I don't think name callers must be called names. I accept that I have called the FM one name - Monkeys. That is a far cry from what the FM posts as feedback. You seem to be focusing on my actions while completely ignoring the FM's actions. Isn't that called hypocrisy?
So if you think I am going to apologize for calling them monkeys, think again.
QUOTE (occidental+)
So how are you somehow better than the forum mafia?
I don't think I am better than them. But I do exhibit more tolerance than them and don't go about negging and insulting people who I perceive to be cranks.
Your comparison of my behavior with the FM Versus the FMs behavior in general says a lot.
I don't think I am better than them. But I do exhibit more tolerance than them and don't go about negging and insulting people who I perceive to be cranks.
Your comparison of my behavior with the FM Versus the FMs behavior in general says a lot.
QUOTE
You know what, I agree with you. I might have, but only against the FM.
Interesting. I wont speak for the fm, but I have gathered they have their own criteria for what justifies their actions, just like you. ie-"but only against the cranks". I totally support them in that endeavor.QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| You know what, I agree with you. I might have, but only against the FM. |
Interesting. I wont speak for the fm, but I have gathered they have their own criteria for what justifies their actions, just like you. ie-"but only against the cranks". I totally support them in that endeavor.
Unfounded? How can you be certain of that? commonsensical apologized to me. I accepted it without questioning if he belonged to the FM or not.
Unfounded? How can you be certain of that? commonsensical apologized to me. I accepted it without questioning if he belonged to the FM or not.
Is that some kind of trick question or just some kind of stupid question? Didnt you accepted it without questioning? And wouldnt you be the appropriate person to make that judgment?I agree with you, for what its worth. Robin Parsons actually made the exact same mistake with me as you made with commonsensical. He refuses to apologize, too.
You are completely missing the point. I dont have an issue with most name calling and the posting of pictures-thats your hang-up. I just enjoy pointing out to you that you are acting like a hypocrite. But that often happens--the oppressed become the oppressors the first chance they get. You were oppressed, right vkamath? Arent you a victim of the forum mafia? Must have been rough experience for you.
You are completely missing the point. I dont have an issue with most name calling and the posting of pictures-thats your hang-up. I just enjoy pointing out to you that you are acting like a hypocrite. But that often happens--the oppressed become the oppressors the first chance they get. You were oppressed, right vkamath? Arent you a victim of the forum mafia? Must have been rough experience for you.
So if you think I am going to apologize for calling them monkeys, think again.
QUOTE
No, I don't think name callers must be called names. I accept that I have called the FM one name - Monkeys. That is a far cry from what the FM posts as feedback. You seem to be focusing on my actions while completely ignoring the FM's actions. Isn't that called hypocrisy?
You are completely missing the point. I dont have an issue with most name calling and the posting of pictures-thats your hang-up. I just enjoy pointing out to you that you are acting like a hypocrite. But that often happens--the oppressed become the oppressors the first chance they get. You were oppressed, right vkamath? Arent you a victim of the forum mafia? Must have been rough experience for you.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| No, I don't think name callers must be called names. I accept that I have called the FM one name - Monkeys. That is a far cry from what the FM posts as feedback. You seem to be focusing on my actions while completely ignoring the FM's actions. Isn't that called hypocrisy? |
You are completely missing the point. I dont have an issue with most name calling and the posting of pictures-thats your hang-up. I just enjoy pointing out to you that you are acting like a hypocrite. But that often happens--the oppressed become the oppressors the first chance they get. You were oppressed, right vkamath? Arent you a victim of the forum mafia? Must have been rough experience for you.
So if you think I am going to apologize for calling them monkeys, think again.
Not at all. I think you should apologize for making a false accusation.
No, it would appear you negg people you dont like. Or who dont agree with you. Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
No, it would appear you negg people you dont like. Or who dont agree with you. Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
Your comparison of my behavior with the FM Versus the FMs behavior in general says a lot.
Sounds ominous- what do you think that says?
QUOTE
I don't think I am better than them. But I do exhibit more tolerance than them and don't go about negging and insulting people who I perceive to be cranks.
No, it would appear you negg people you dont like. Or who dont agree with you. Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I don't think I am better than them. But I do exhibit more tolerance than them and don't go about negging and insulting people who I perceive to be cranks. |
No, it would appear you negg people you dont like. Or who dont agree with you. Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
Your comparison of my behavior with the FM Versus the FMs behavior in general says a lot.
Sounds ominous- what do you think that says?
QUOTE (occidental+)
Interesting. I wont speak for the fm, but I have gathered they have their own criteria for what justifies their actions, just like you. ie-"but only against the cranks". I totally support them in that endeavor.
I thought so. Hence your negative feedback. Maybe you should join the FM, rather than defending them from outside like a lawyer.
I thought so. Hence your negative feedback. Maybe you should join the FM, rather than defending them from outside like a lawyer.
QUOTE (occidental+)
Is that some kind of trick question or just some kind of stupid question? Didnt you accepted it without questioning?
Where did I accept that he did not belong to the FM? I simply accepted his apology. You are distorting the facts.
So if someone apologizes to you for their bad behavior, are you supposed to go back and apologize to them for your accusing them?
Where did I accept that he did not belong to the FM? I simply accepted his apology. You are distorting the facts.
So if someone apologizes to you for their bad behavior, are you supposed to go back and apologize to them for your accusing them?
QUOTE (occidental+)
I just enjoy pointing out to you that you are acting like a hypocrite.
Likewise. I am just enjoy pointing out that you are hung up on my actions while completely ignoring the FMs actions.
Likewise. I am just enjoy pointing out that you are hung up on my actions while completely ignoring the FMs actions.
QUOTE (occidental+)
You were oppressed, right vkamath? Arent you a victim of the forum mafia? Must have been rough experience for you.
Not really. All this started after I posted on the "Regarding The Forum Mafia And Thier Affiliates" thread. So stop trying to psychoanalyze people.
If that is what you believe then you are clearly unable to follow a simple discussion.
If that is what you believe then you are clearly unable to follow a simple discussion.
Likewise. I am just enjoy pointing out that you are hung up on my actions while completely ignoring the FMs actions.
Not really. All this started after I posted on the "Regarding The Forum Mafia And Thier Affiliates" thread. So stop trying to psychoanalyze people.
QUOTE (occidental+)
No, it would appear you negg people you dont like. Or who dont agree with you. Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
I gave you a negative because you are blindly defending the FM.
I see that this thread is not going anywhere. So I will not drag this discussion anymore.
I gave you a negative because you are blindly defending the FM.
I see that this thread is not going anywhere. So I will not drag this discussion anymore.
QUOTE
I gave you a negative because you are blindly defending the FM.
If that is what you believe then you are clearly unable to follow a simple discussion.
QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| I gave you a negative because you are blindly defending the FM. |
If that is what you believe then you are clearly unable to follow a simple discussion.
Likewise. I am just enjoy pointing out that you are hung up on my actions while completely ignoring the FMs actions.
I dont have a problem with their actions, in general. You are the one who has problems with the fm. My problem with you is that you whine about what you yourself do. Its not much of a problem though, really. I enjoy it.
QUOTE
Where did I accept that he did not belong to the FM? I simply accepted his apology. You are distorting the facts.
I reread what you had said, and you are right, I misread that and I did distort the facts--sorry about that. Funny, but now I have even less respect for you. QUOTE (->
| QUOTE |
| Where did I accept that he did not belong to the FM? I simply accepted his apology. You are distorting the facts. |
I reread what you had said, and you are right, I misread that and I did distort the facts--sorry about that. Funny, but now I have even less respect for you.
I thought so. Hence your negative feedback.
I thought so. Hence your negative feedback.
I see. And you are somehow different than the forum mafia how?
Its unfortunate that youre unable to address the bigger question of where the line is and what the appropriate response could be. Its also too bad you dont use your brains fully before you post. But dont be offended, I mean that in a good way.
QUOTE
I see that this thread is not going anywhere. So I will not drag this discussion anymore.
Sorry to see that you are unable to be accountable for what you have said. Its unfortunate that youre unable to address the bigger question of where the line is and what the appropriate response could be. Its also too bad you dont use your brains fully before you post. But dont be offended, I mean that in a good way.
The Journal below offers a free guest download of the Vol. 76 essays, and so this morning I managed after a week of recovering from our Apple ibook crashed after updating the Mac OS 10.4.11 (Tiger), fortunately my older imac with Mac OS 9 and 10 took the update, and eventually I got my Brother Printer reinstalled and
Mafia, at it's best, means "family first", at it's worst it degenerates to what the multimedia portrays to it's vast audience. My take is to use the term "refma" (reformed mafia") that means it has adopted standard practices of top down corporations, and I'll leave it at that.
The JPSJ offer to download to registered guests for limited period of time is "progressive" and I tried to thanks them, but that bogged down, so I returned to the physorg forums, and felt that the below link might aid in making the FM perform with a focus towards the light at the end of the tunnel, if there be a tunnel and or a light?
Oh, the gist of the article is that a Teacher is used as a standard to evaluate Students, not bad as a starter for the physorg forms. I don't have any solutions except participation, ever since I got to hear and see our local Nobel Prize Lourette, Douglass C North speak about groups and groups of groups, their communications with each other and between groups, after he and his wife had just returned last August from a conference amongst some 70 of their top economists, I've gotten "emboldened" about writing somewhat as an expert, which I am not relative to those I am reading from the organized professional groups.
Journal of the Physical Society of Japan Vol. 76 No. 11, November, 2007, 114006 (8 pages) URL : http://jpsj.ipap.jp/link?JPSJ/76/114006/ DOI : 10.1143/JPSJ.76.114006
[title]:Theory of Time Domain Ensemble On-Line Learning of Perceptron under the Existence of External Noise
[authors]:Tatsuya Uezu*, Seiji Miyoshi1, Mika Izuo2, and Masato Okada3
Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
1Department of Electronic Engineering, Kobe City College of Technology, 8-3 Gakuenhigashimachi, Nishi-ku, Kobe 651-2194
2Department of Physics, Faculty of Science, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
3Division of Transdisciplinary of Sciences, Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, The University of Tokyo, 5-1-5 Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba 277-8561
(Received May 12, 2007; Accepted September 10, 2007; Published November 12, 2007)
[Abstract]:We analyze the time domain ensemble on-line learning of a Perceptron under the existence of external noise. We adopt three typical learning rules, Hebbian, Perceptron, and AdaTron rules. We treat the input and output noises. In order to improve the learning when it does not succeed in the sense that the student vector does not converge to the teacher vector, we use an averaging method and give theoretical analysis of the method. We obtain the precise formula for the overlap between the teacher vector and the time averaged student vector for t→∞ limit as a function of the number of student vectors to be averaged. We compare the theoretical results with numerical simulations and find that the theoretical results agree quite well with the numerical simulations.
KEYWORDS: Perceptron, on-line learning, noise, time domain ensemble
[comments]:
But, and there is the good news: In examining and printing out sme seven or eight of the papers in Vol 76, I found figures of the regular triplets, two in particular that match the toy ball vertexs and stick rods, that connect magnetically to construct polyhedron, regular (flat equal lateral triangles, felts). See Roger's Connectins, magnetic building set, www.dstoys.com.
To launch into it quickly, consider this figure 1 description:
{{We begin from the regularization of Sb in eq. (44). In accordance with the previous studies, we introduce a cutoff function in order to take into account the effect of the small Fig. 3. Contour plots of the eigenfunctions of the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain with L 1⁄41. The mode numbers and eigenfrequency are shown in each figure. }}
If you cannot get the essay from this, I add comments below:
{{Casimir Energy of the Massless Scalar Field
Confined in an Equilateral Triangular Domain
Norio I NUI Graduate School of Engineering, University of Hyogo, 2167 Shosha, Himeji, Hyogo 671-2280
(Received April 20, 2007; accepted August 9, 2007; published October 25, 2007)
We regularize an infinite summation of the zero-point energy for the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain, and we calculate the Casimir energy for the relevant field configuration. To evaluate the infinite summation over two distinct nonzero integers, we generalize the Abel–Plana formula so that the finite summation in which the upper bound is a variable integer is expressed in terms of integrals. The obtained approximate value of the Casimir energy density in the equilateral triangular domain with side length L is 0:4681h
Mafia, at it's best, means "family first", at it's worst it degenerates to what the multimedia portrays to it's vast audience. My take is to use the term "refma" (reformed mafia") that means it has adopted standard practices of top down corporations, and I'll leave it at that.
The JPSJ offer to download to registered guests for limited period of time is "progressive" and I tried to thanks them, but that bogged down, so I returned to the physorg forums, and felt that the below link might aid in making the FM perform with a focus towards the light at the end of the tunnel, if there be a tunnel and or a light?
Oh, the gist of the article is that a Teacher is used as a standard to evaluate Students, not bad as a starter for the physorg forms. I don't have any solutions except participation, ever since I got to hear and see our local Nobel Prize Lourette, Douglass C North speak about groups and groups of groups, their communications with each other and between groups, after he and his wife had just returned last August from a conference amongst some 70 of their top economists, I've gotten "emboldened" about writing somewhat as an expert, which I am not relative to those I am reading from the organized professional groups.
Journal of the Physical Society of Japan Vol. 76 No. 11, November, 2007, 114006 (8 pages) URL : http://jpsj.ipap.jp/link?JPSJ/76/114006/ DOI : 10.1143/JPSJ.76.114006
[title]:Theory of Time Domain Ensemble On-Line Learning of Perceptron under the Existence of External Noise
[authors]:Tatsuya Uezu*, Seiji Miyoshi1, Mika Izuo2, and Masato Okada3
Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
1Department of Electronic Engineering, Kobe City College of Technology, 8-3 Gakuenhigashimachi, Nishi-ku, Kobe 651-2194
2Department of Physics, Faculty of Science, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
3Division of Transdisciplinary of Sciences, Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, The University of Tokyo, 5-1-5 Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba 277-8561
(Received May 12, 2007; Accepted September 10, 2007; Published November 12, 2007)
[Abstract]:We analyze the time domain ensemble on-line learning of a Perceptron under the existence of external noise. We adopt three typical learning rules, Hebbian, Perceptron, and AdaTron rules. We treat the input and output noises. In order to improve the learning when it does not succeed in the sense that the student vector does not converge to the teacher vector, we use an averaging method and give theoretical analysis of the method. We obtain the precise formula for the overlap between the teacher vector and the time averaged student vector for t→∞ limit as a function of the number of student vectors to be averaged. We compare the theoretical results with numerical simulations and find that the theoretical results agree quite well with the numerical simulations.
KEYWORDS: Perceptron, on-line learning, noise, time domain ensemble
[comments]:
But, and there is the good news: In examining and printing out sme seven or eight of the papers in Vol 76, I found figures of the regular triplets, two in particular that match the toy ball vertexs and stick rods, that connect magnetically to construct polyhedron, regular (flat equal lateral triangles, felts). See Roger's Connectins, magnetic building set, www.dstoys.com.
To launch into it quickly, consider this figure 1 description:
{{We begin from the regularization of Sb in eq. (44). In accordance with the previous studies, we introduce a cutoff function in order to take into account the effect of the small Fig. 3. Contour plots of the eigenfunctions of the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain with L 1⁄41. The mode numbers and eigenfrequency are shown in each figure. }}
If you cannot get the essay from this, I add comments below:
{{Casimir Energy of the Massless Scalar Field
Confined in an Equilateral Triangular Domain
Norio I NUI Graduate School of Engineering, University of Hyogo, 2167 Shosha, Himeji, Hyogo 671-2280
(Received April 20, 2007; accepted August 9, 2007; published October 25, 2007)
We regularize an infinite summation of the zero-point energy for the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain, and we calculate the Casimir energy for the relevant field configuration. To evaluate the infinite summation over two distinct nonzero integers, we generalize the Abel–Plana formula so that the finite summation in which the upper bound is a variable integer is expressed in terms of integrals. The obtained approximate value of the Casimir energy density in the equilateral triangular domain with side length L is 0:4681h
QUOTE (rmuldavin+Dec 13 2007, 07:52 PM)
The Journal below offers a free guest download of the Vol. 76 essays, and so this morning I managed after a week of recovering from our Apple ibook crashed after updating the Mac OS 10.4.11 (Tiger), fortunately my older imac with Mac OS 9 and 10 took the update, and eventually I got my Brother Printer reinstalled and
Mafia, at it's best, means "family first", at it's worst it degenerates to what the multimedia portrays to it's vast audience. My take is to use the term "refma" (reformed mafia") that means it has adopted standard practices of top down corporations, and I'll leave it at that.
The JPSJ offer to download to registered guests for limited period of time is "progressive" and I tried to thanks them, but that bogged down, so I returned to the physorg forums, and felt that the below link might aid in making the FM perform with a focus towards the light at the end of the tunnel, if there be a tunnel and or a light?
Oh, the gist of the article is that a Teacher is used as a standard to evaluate Students, not bad as a starter for the physorg forms. I don't have any solutions except participation, ever since I got to hear and see our local Nobel Prize Lourette, Douglass C North speak about groups and groups of groups, their communications with each other and between groups, after he and his wife had just returned last August from a conference amongst some 70 of their top economists, I've gotten "emboldened" about writing somewhat as an expert, which I am not relative to those I am reading from the organized professional groups.
Journal of the Physical Society of Japan Vol. 76 No. 11, November, 2007, 114006 (8 pages) URL : http://jpsj.ipap.jp/link?JPSJ/76/114006/ DOI : 10.1143/JPSJ.76.114006
[title]:Theory of Time Domain Ensemble On-Line Learning of Perceptron under the Existence of External Noise
[authors]:Tatsuya Uezu*, Seiji Miyoshi1, Mika Izuo2, and Masato Okada3
Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
1Department of Electronic Engineering, Kobe City College of Technology, 8-3 Gakuenhigashimachi, Nishi-ku, Kobe 651-2194
2Department of Physics, Faculty of Science, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
3Division of Transdisciplinary of Sciences, Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, The University of Tokyo, 5-1-5 Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba 277-8561
(Received May 12, 2007; Accepted September 10, 2007; Published November 12, 2007)
[Abstract]:We analyze the time domain ensemble on-line learning of a Perceptron under the existence of external noise. We adopt three typical learning rules, Hebbian, Perceptron, and AdaTron rules. We treat the input and output noises. In order to improve the learning when it does not succeed in the sense that the student vector does not converge to the teacher vector, we use an averaging method and give theoretical analysis of the method. We obtain the precise formula for the overlap between the teacher vector and the time averaged student vector for t→∞ limit as a function of the number of student vectors to be averaged. We compare the theoretical results with numerical simulations and find that the theoretical results agree quite well with the numerical simulations.
KEYWORDS: Perceptron, on-line learning, noise, time domain ensemble
[comments]:
But, and there is the good news: In examining and printing out sme seven or eight of the papers in Vol 76, I found figures of the regular triplets, two in particular that match the toy ball vertexs and stick rods, that connect magnetically to construct polyhedron, regular (flat equal lateral triangles, felts). See Roger's Connectins, magnetic building set, www.dstoys.com.
To launch into it quickly, consider this figure 1 description:
{{We begin from the regularization of Sb in eq. (44). In accordance with the previous studies, we introduce a cutoff function in order to take into account the effect of the small Fig. 3. Contour plots of the eigenfunctions of the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain with L 1⁄41. The mode numbers and eigenfrequency are shown in each figure. }}
If you cannot get the essay from this, I add comments below:
{{Casimir Energy of the Massless Scalar Field
Confined in an Equilateral Triangular Domain
Norio I NUI Graduate School of Engineering, University of Hyogo, 2167 Shosha, Himeji, Hyogo 671-2280
(Received April 20, 2007; accepted August 9, 2007; published October 25, 2007)
We regularize an infinite summation of the zero-point energy for the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain, and we calculate the Casimir energy for the relevant field configuration. To evaluate the infinite summation over two distinct nonzero integers, we generalize the Abel–Plana formula so that the finite summation in which the upper bound is a variable integer is expressed in terms of integrals. The obtained approximate value of the Casimir energy density in the equilateral triangular domain with side length L is 0:4681h
That hurt, man. That really, really hurt.
But honestly, be careful with those magnets from your polyhedron sculpture.(Did you make a merkaba?) Those are the ones that can be a problem if you swallow them-very dangerous.
Mafia, at it's best, means "family first", at it's worst it degenerates to what the multimedia portrays to it's vast audience. My take is to use the term "refma" (reformed mafia") that means it has adopted standard practices of top down corporations, and I'll leave it at that.
The JPSJ offer to download to registered guests for limited period of time is "progressive" and I tried to thanks them, but that bogged down, so I returned to the physorg forums, and felt that the below link might aid in making the FM perform with a focus towards the light at the end of the tunnel, if there be a tunnel and or a light?
Oh, the gist of the article is that a Teacher is used as a standard to evaluate Students, not bad as a starter for the physorg forms. I don't have any solutions except participation, ever since I got to hear and see our local Nobel Prize Lourette, Douglass C North speak about groups and groups of groups, their communications with each other and between groups, after he and his wife had just returned last August from a conference amongst some 70 of their top economists, I've gotten "emboldened" about writing somewhat as an expert, which I am not relative to those I am reading from the organized professional groups.
Journal of the Physical Society of Japan Vol. 76 No. 11, November, 2007, 114006 (8 pages) URL : http://jpsj.ipap.jp/link?JPSJ/76/114006/ DOI : 10.1143/JPSJ.76.114006
[title]:Theory of Time Domain Ensemble On-Line Learning of Perceptron under the Existence of External Noise
[authors]:Tatsuya Uezu*, Seiji Miyoshi1, Mika Izuo2, and Masato Okada3
Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
1Department of Electronic Engineering, Kobe City College of Technology, 8-3 Gakuenhigashimachi, Nishi-ku, Kobe 651-2194
2Department of Physics, Faculty of Science, Nara Women's University, Kitauoyahigashi-machi, Nara 630-8506
3Division of Transdisciplinary of Sciences, Graduate School of Frontier Sciences, The University of Tokyo, 5-1-5 Kashiwanoha, Kashiwa, Chiba 277-8561
(Received May 12, 2007; Accepted September 10, 2007; Published November 12, 2007)
[Abstract]:We analyze the time domain ensemble on-line learning of a Perceptron under the existence of external noise. We adopt three typical learning rules, Hebbian, Perceptron, and AdaTron rules. We treat the input and output noises. In order to improve the learning when it does not succeed in the sense that the student vector does not converge to the teacher vector, we use an averaging method and give theoretical analysis of the method. We obtain the precise formula for the overlap between the teacher vector and the time averaged student vector for t→∞ limit as a function of the number of student vectors to be averaged. We compare the theoretical results with numerical simulations and find that the theoretical results agree quite well with the numerical simulations.
KEYWORDS: Perceptron, on-line learning, noise, time domain ensemble
[comments]:
But, and there is the good news: In examining and printing out sme seven or eight of the papers in Vol 76, I found figures of the regular triplets, two in particular that match the toy ball vertexs and stick rods, that connect magnetically to construct polyhedron, regular (flat equal lateral triangles, felts). See Roger's Connectins, magnetic building set, www.dstoys.com.
To launch into it quickly, consider this figure 1 description:
{{We begin from the regularization of Sb in eq. (44). In accordance with the previous studies, we introduce a cutoff function in order to take into account the effect of the small Fig. 3. Contour plots of the eigenfunctions of the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain with L 1⁄41. The mode numbers and eigenfrequency are shown in each figure. }}
If you cannot get the essay from this, I add comments below:
{{Casimir Energy of the Massless Scalar Field
Confined in an Equilateral Triangular Domain
Norio I NUI Graduate School of Engineering, University of Hyogo, 2167 Shosha, Himeji, Hyogo 671-2280
(Received April 20, 2007; accepted August 9, 2007; published October 25, 2007)
We regularize an infinite summation of the zero-point energy for the massless scalar field obeying the Dirichlet boundary condition on the surface of an equilateral triangular domain, and we calculate the Casimir energy for the relevant field configuration. To evaluate the infinite summation over two distinct nonzero integers, we generalize the Abel–Plana formula so that the finite summation in which the upper bound is a variable integer is expressed in terms of integrals. The obtained approximate value of the Casimir energy density in the equilateral triangular domain with side length L is 0:4681h
That hurt, man. That really, really hurt.
But honestly, be careful with those magnets from your polyhedron sculpture.(Did you make a merkaba?) Those are the ones that can be a problem if you swallow them-very dangerous.
QUOTE (occidental+Dec 13 2007, 04:13 AM)
Maybe Im wrong about that--you tell me, why did you give me a negative?
Oh, I hate it when I get a negative and can't figure out the reason.
Oh, I hate it when I get a negative and can't figure out the reason.
QUOTE (StevenA+Nov 16 2007, 07:43 PM)
[I am retaliating for a negative feedback you made in May which I attribute incorrectly to postings on a specific thread.] [You have tried to trick me.]
[You made up your mind independent of others to file the negative against me.]
Anyway, I'm just returning the favor.
In fact, I was making a general comment on StevenA posts when I filed my single negative feedback, in May. This is the highest quality negative feedback I have ever received, even if it was clearly posted for incorrect reasons and standards I don't subscribe to. http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?act=ST&...ndpost&p=284144
Brilliant minded - good guy
[You made up your mind independent of others to file the negative against me.]
Anyway, I'm just returning the favor.
In fact, I was making a general comment on StevenA posts when I filed my single negative feedback, in May. This is the highest quality negative feedback I have ever received, even if it was clearly posted for incorrect reasons and standards I don't subscribe to. http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?act=ST&...ndpost&p=284144
QUOTE (Baby+Nov 11 2007, 07:55 PM)
Brilliant minded - good guy
Very confusing for a negative feedback.
QUOTE (kaneda+Oct 27 2007, 07:34 AM )
A pumped up cretin who knows every word in his text books are right, from the first word to the last. Could be an idiot if he studied hard enough.
Is this a recommendation to study less or study more? At a guess, this was a response to my most proximate post involving kaneda where I observe that he is misstating the big bang model as used by professionals, and has been since 2006. Thus the textbook definition is relevant, which makes his feedback incomprehensible. http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?act=ST&...ndpost&p=277437
QUOTE (fivedoughnut+Sep 13 2007, 08:16 PM)
A great intellectual asset to our forum ...... for kicking the dimshit pants outta poser idiots.
Very confusing for a negative feedback.
QUOTE (Zephir+Jun 30 2007, 08:45 AM)
...Newtonian ether cannot generate the predictions of SR...
What style! Zephir clearly quotes the statement that he objects to. Of course, a mathematical demonstration of the converse of this statement is the gold standard for rebutting a mathematical statement like this, but full credit for specificity to Zephir.
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 18 2007, 05:06 PM)
Not just a text book quoting idiot but a coward too who likes people gone before he suddenly shows how brave he is. Runs away from debates.
Not very specific. I have no memory of running away from debate. Being an American, I have precious few memories of running anywhere.
QUOTE (kaneda+Jun 5 2007, 02:53 PM)
Poor white trash who lives in a trailer and works at McDonalds. Lives a fantasy life quoting science from books. Has stalking tendencies which could be part of his delusional world.
Sucks up to fellow stalker, JeanSplicer.
Sucks up to fellow stalker, JeanSplicer.
All statements untrue, most statements categorically untrue. Specificity zero.
QUOTE (Nick+Apr 25 2007, 12:47 AM)
WHAT IS YOUR WORLD VIEW PEN?
Seems unclear on the concept of feedback. Specificity zero.
QUOTE (bee+Nov 26 2006, 10:58 PM)
hahaha!
Enigmatic.
Rpenner: I suspect that the negatives from fivedonut and baby were supposed to be positives, but the wrong radio button was clicked. I know that's almost happened to me a couple of times.
QUOTE (Trippy+Dec 14 2007, 01:10 AM)
Rpenner: I suspect that the negatives from fivedonut and baby were supposed to be positives, but the wrong radio button was clicked. I know that's almost happened to me a couple of times.
Heh. Well it's weird, because filling out web forms is hardly brain surgery. But on that note:
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2007/11/27/hos...-brain-surgery/
Heh. Well it's weird, because filling out web forms is hardly brain surgery. But on that note:
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2007/11/27/hos...-brain-surgery/
QUOTE (rpenner+Dec 14 2007, 03:11 PM)
Heh. Well it's weird, because filling out web forms is hardly brain surgery. But on that note:
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2007/11/27/hos...-brain-surgery/
True, but it is an easy enough mistake to make if you're tired, not paying attention, have a hinky mouse, in a hurry, etc etc.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2007/11/27/hos...-brain-surgery/
True, but it is an easy enough mistake to make if you're tired, not paying attention, have a hinky mouse, in a hurry, etc etc.
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