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E. L. Earnhardt
http://www.physorg.com/news87833644.html

Desperation makes strange bedfellows. The need to make you rich and famous should no longer delay a treatment that works!
E.L.Earnhardt
R Neal UK
Strange bedfellows indeed. With all the evidence that abounds about this treatment why so long.
Dondre
Its All Just Smoke And Mirrors. The FDA Will Never Approve The Treatment Pass The Trials Because Big Pharmaceuticals Will Not Take This Lightly. The Have Too Much $$$ To Lose. Its All Just Big Business But They At Least Have To Make It Look Like They Tried Something Different.
ChaosTheory
No they won't the FDA will approve it if they get their hands on it to make more money. As long as they're within control and can make decent amounts of money, its fine.
Guest
They Will Not Be Able To Have A Patent On Natural Substances. Thats Why They Are trying To limit Natural Supplements and Lock People Up Who Advocate Natural Cures. Without a Patient They Can Not Corner The Market.
ChaosTheory
No but they can harvest their own and ''improve'' on it to make sure they blow the others out of the market.

And they can't put a patent on a natural substance no but they can patent the manufacturer OF the substance.
e46308@aol.com
[FONT=Times][SIZE=7]

When the Vitamin C proves effective, it will be taken off the free market and sold by perscription only. This is the result of the "test".

It is well-known that the APA wants to get vitamins under their control. To me, it's population control.
Philip Rudnick
To: Cancer Treatment Centers of America

This study is doomed to failure - Pauling pointed out that all such patients have impaired immune systems from their very extensive, failed chemo treatments. In your agreeing to test Vitamin C only on such failed patients, the FDA must be laughing at your ignorance and stupidity. They will certainly make hay out of the almost certain outcome of this study which you have claim to have “won”.

Philip Rudnick, PhD
Professor Emeritus, Chemistry
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
pbrudnick@yahoo.com
ChaosTheory
Not quite phil, the FDA would laugh at your ignorance and stupidity but the patients would start to raise questions about them not issueing ''the cure''.
If the media assumes correctly and the FDA disallows these tests then many people will question why if it's been claimed as a cure.

DL Rover
Like ay other illness cancer is an industry.
Vitamin C equals health.
Do the math!
carlrehnborgsbluearmy
That's interesting that they would leave the worst patients for which the most expensive "modern" chemotherapies, radiation, and antibodies did not work for intravenous vitamin C therapy as a last resort. That is totally, completely backwards.

That's not going to go unescaped by the scientific eye. This is already ripe for the unscrupulous to announce to the untrained and trusting laymen to announce that "IV Vitamin C does nothing for cancer patients" WHEN IN FACT, IT WAS THEIR OWN CHEMOTHERAPEUTICS THAT DID NOTHING FOR THE CANCER PATIENTS.

This so called "clinical study" has already crippled the chances of success by dumping admitted failures of chemo onto clinicians to inject with intravenous vitamin C.

That's not an objective study by any means, and any reports to the contrary must admit that it is not at all the same thing as starting out the patients on vitamin C FIRST, and then going to the last resort of the toxic, heart disease causing, liver disease causing, kidney disease causing, brain disease causing, carcinogenic, immune failure causing, chemotherapeutic.



huh.gif huh.gif huh.gif
ChaosTheory
QUOTE (DL Rover+Jan 21 2007, 01:42 PM)
Like ay other illness cancer is an industry.
Vitamin C equals health.
Do the math!

Not if the patients have extensive immuno-structure deffects.
Vitamin C may be health to you and i since we've not been under chemotherapy recently.
Idioth, vitamin C or any vitamin for that matter can equal health to the people who's bodies won't try to REJECT THE PROTEIN.

Fool, cancer isn't an industry? the tobacco industries must just thrive on something other than cancerous products hmm?
melody
Since the FDA is so up on clinical trials, let's have one One Group IV vitamin C
The other standard chemo. I am sure that will have more volunteers for the
IV C considering the toxic side-effects of chemo. mad.gif
Kurt Z
Too bad they are only taking those patients that have already exhausted conventional therapy. They've already been poisoned by radiation/chemo. They need to trial those who've never been treated with radiation/chemo. Of course, the efficacy of ascorbate has already been shown by Pauling, McGregor, etc.
guy3288
Pauling has proven that???? you must be joking. If high doses of vitamin C or any antioxidant for that matter can PREVENT cancer, then Pauling himself shouldn't have died of CANCER . And so are many more other pill-poppers.


Many studies have indicated that Vitamin C in high doses cannot prevent cancer just like that.

Taking lots of natural food (vege and fruits) is definitely beneficial but the same cannot be said for taking the vitamins or antioxidants , there must be something else there, the other phytochems i mean.


Yes the study is doomed to show negative results, because Cancer is not so simple
to handle.HIgh doses of vitamin C is just gimmicry!


If swallowing lots of vitamin C pills have not been proven to reduce cancer deaths, how then can you expect to use vita C as first line therapy for cancer?

Naturally only those who have nothing to lose, should be subjected to this trial, just to show once and for all it's all gimmick.


Ethics demand that only proven therapy should be used, the unproven ones like IV vit C must start itself from the bottom up. At the bottom, it already failed to prove itself......that's why it is not used as first line therapy in cancer trials.

However if Vit C can actually curtail cancerous growth, there should still be positive results even though it is used after chemo failed, unless you are saying that both work the same way.

For those who have the delusion to think that a weakened immune system is bound to cause the failure of Vit C , let me say the very fact that cancer has developed, it means your body immune system is already faulty. No amount of vitamins can reverse that bodily error of allowing cancerous cells to proliferate.




T-cell
guy3288,

I completely agree with your statements regarding Pauling and vitamin C efficacy combating cancer. I'm in disagreement with the premise of your last statement:

QUOTE
... let me say the very fact that cancer has developed, it means your body immune system is already faulty. No amount of vitamins can reverse that bodily error of allowing cancerous cells to proliferate.


[Excluding the vitamins]
On one hand you say that the body's immune system is faulty, yet on the other hand, you state that the body is an error allowing (this is incorrect) the malignancy to metastasize. The very reason there is any angiogenesis & cancer cell mitosis taking place, while, healthy cell apoptosis & phagocytosis (along with hundreds of other processes) are being conducted, would only lend credence to the body's immune system being healthy and strong (a lingering common bacterial infection or a simple wound not healing would be considered better indicators). The reason cancers run amuck is simply cell programming (DNA / RNA). One reason; malignant cellular release of chemicals and proteins basically fool the body's immune system allowing the cancer to replicate almost uncontrollably, simultaneously, starving and killing surrounding healthy cells. This isn't some system fault anymore than a computer destroying hard drive data after acquiring a virus. It's just doing what it's been programmed to do (I could draw a dozen analogies of the body to the computer). This is exactly the problem; contrary to many in the medical community- "I believe it (the body) IS functioning correctly."

The causes are just as diverse as the many types. They range from viruses (example- cervical cancer from HPV), DNA and RNA damage (example- toxic chemical and radioactivity exposure), etc. Each having separate and distinct effects on one's immune system.

I have my own theories to more effective approaches, which would probably take a week to post with my typing skills (w-t-f, I have no typing skills). sad.gif Okay, it would take a month. At present, I haven't seen but a handful of treatments that I could consider even remotely viable, to the extent we're not poisoning, irradiating, or slicing up the body (talk about medieval). This usually results in only weakening the body (a contraindication).

I sincerely hope you or anyone else you know doesn't presently have cancer. You seem to have come across somewhat angry and frustrated. I can completely understand. I've lost too many family members and friends to cancer.

QUOTE (->
QUOTE
... let me say the very fact that cancer has developed, it means your body immune system is already faulty. No amount of vitamins can reverse that bodily error of allowing cancerous cells to proliferate.


[Excluding the vitamins]
On one hand you say that the body's immune system is faulty, yet on the other hand, you state that the body is an error allowing (this is incorrect) the malignancy to metastasize. The very reason there is any angiogenesis & cancer cell mitosis taking place, while, healthy cell apoptosis & phagocytosis (along with hundreds of other processes) are being conducted, would only lend credence to the body's immune system being healthy and strong (a lingering common bacterial infection or a simple wound not healing would be considered better indicators). The reason cancers run amuck is simply cell programming (DNA / RNA). One reason; malignant cellular release of chemicals and proteins basically fool the body's immune system allowing the cancer to replicate almost uncontrollably, simultaneously, starving and killing surrounding healthy cells. This isn't some system fault anymore than a computer destroying hard drive data after acquiring a virus. It's just doing what it's been programmed to do (I could draw a dozen analogies of the body to the computer). This is exactly the problem; contrary to many in the medical community- "I believe it (the body) IS functioning correctly."

The causes are just as diverse as the many types. They range from viruses (example- cervical cancer from HPV), DNA and RNA damage (example- toxic chemical and radioactivity exposure), etc. Each having separate and distinct effects on one's immune system.

I have my own theories to more effective approaches, which would probably take a week to post with my typing skills (w-t-f, I have no typing skills). sad.gif Okay, it would take a month. At present, I haven't seen but a handful of treatments that I could consider even remotely viable, to the extent we're not poisoning, irradiating, or slicing up the body (talk about medieval). This usually results in only weakening the body (a contraindication).

I sincerely hope you or anyone else you know doesn't presently have cancer. You seem to have come across somewhat angry and frustrated. I can completely understand. I've lost too many family members and friends to cancer.

... Cancer is not so simple to handle.

You can etch that one in stone.
guy3288
hello T-cell,


I reckon you are a scientist closely linked to immunology.
I am glad that you are another one who does not buy that Megadoses Vitamin C and cancer gimmick started off by Pauling many many years ago..

So what if Pauling is a Nobel Laureatte, just to remind those who
have a delusion that "big names" must always be correct.


But in layman's language we say the body immune is faulty to mean that it no longer does its "policing job" properly thus allowing "foreign" abnormal cancerous
cells to grow unchecked.

I can see your point in that computer analogy. You are trying to say that the immune system in people with cancer does no wrong ie not faulty, only that it has been programmed to do the wrong thing ie allows cancer to grow.


Similarly you said a virus infected computer is not faulty, only that it has been programmed by the virus to do nonsense. and it works perfectly fine (by your definition) to do just that(the nonsense).

Perhaps you would only accept that the computer is faulty when it has actually broken down, cannot restart and cannot be used anymore?

That is to say the (immune )system is not faulty (in cancer) until all systems shut down?

And yes in cancer at the end, all systems would shut down, ultimately when death occurs.







T-cell
guy3288,

If only I were some scholarly medical research scientist. Got my a$$ thrown out of an Ivy League institution for ripping a couple professors a new one (no surprise there). They were wrong and all I did was give solid substantiation for it in front of the classes (maybe a bit more than necessary). BTW, what ever happened to academic freedom? Anyway, looking back, I should have shut my freakin mouth. I did find a poor man's vaccine for athlete's foot, cured a few individuals with AVN without drugs or surgery (Who said it was incurable?), and came up with a number of unproven theories regarding cancer treatments. Unfortunately, they'd require a hospital and a number of cancer patients to conduct the trials.

I'm just another guy like most. There are people on this board when it comes to physics that appear to possess ten times my IQ. There amazing. Maybe it's just the love for the scientific endeavor while having a greater propensity for its understanding (hardwired).

QUOTE
Perhaps you would only accept that the computer is faulty when it has actually broken down, cannot restart and cannot be used anymore?

That is to say the (immune) system is not faulty (in cancer) until all systems shut down?

And yes in cancer at the end, all systems would shut down, ultimately when death occurs.

I definitely concur.

Take care
trex
High Doses of Vitamin C Are Not Effective as a Cancer Treatment
Stephen Barrett, M.D.


The claim that vitamin C is useful in the treatment of cancer is largely attributable to Linus Pauling, Ph.D. In 1976 and 1978, he and a Scottish surgeon, Ewan Cameron, M.B., Ch.B., reported that patients treated with high doses of vitamin C had survived three to four times longer than similar patients who did not receive vitamin C supplements. The study was conducted during the early 1970s at the Vale of Leven Hospital in Loch Lomonside, Scotland. Dr. Cameron treated 100 advanced cancer patients with 10,000 milligrams grams of vitamin C per day. The clinical course of these patients was then compared with that of 1,000 patients of other doctors whose records were obtained from the same hospital, but who had received no vitamin C. The findings were published in 1976, with Pauling as co-author, in the Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences [1].

The 1976 report emphasized that all of the patients had been "treated initially in a perfectly conventional way, by operation, use of radiotherapy, and administration of hormones or cytotoxic substances." The vitamin C patients were reported to have a mean survival time 300 days longer than that of the controls. Moreover, the vitamin C patients were said to have shown an improvement in their quality of life. In response to doubts about the validity, reliability, and quality of the control population, Cameron and Pauling replaced some of the patients and controls and published another analysis in September 1978 in the same journal [2]. In 1979, two Japanese researchers affiliated with the Linus Pauling Institute claimed similar results in two studies totaling 130 cancer patients treated during the 1970s [3].

Faulty Design
The Pauling/Cameron study was not a clinical trial in which patients were compared to carefully matched patients chosen at random and followed using a standardized protocol. Instead, Pauling and Cameron attempted to reconstruct what happened to the control group by examining their medical records. Most cancer specialists and journal editors are extremely reluctant to accept this type of study for evaluating the validity of contemporary cancer therapy, primarily because bias may occur in selecting controls.

In 1982, William D. DeWys, M.D., chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute's cancer therapy program, pointed out that the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched [4]. First he observed that no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Then he pointed out that Cameron's patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them "untreatable" and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled "untreatable."

DeWys reasoned that if the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to "untreatable" status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. He concluded that many of Cameron's patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer. DeWys also noted that more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron's patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron's patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable.

In the Japanese study, the treatment and control groups were treated with various doses and at different times, which made the conclusions even more questionable [5].

Mayo Study #1
In 1978, the Mayo Clinic embarked on a prospective, controlled, double-blind study designed to test Pauling and Cameron's claims. Each patient in this study had biopsy-proven cancer that was considered incurable and unsuitable for further chemotherapy, surgery, or radiation. The patients were randomized to receive 10 grams of vitamin C per day or a comparably flavored lactose placebo. All patients took a glycerin-coated capsule four times a day.

The patients were carefully selected so that those vitamin C placebo groups were equally matched. There were 60 patients in the vitamin C group and 63 in the placebo group. The age distributions were similar. There was a slight predominance of males, but the ratio of males to females was virtually identical. Performance status was measured using the Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group Scale, a clinical scale well recognized by cancer researchers. Most study patients had some disability from their disease, but only a small proportion were bedridden. Most patients had advanced gastrointestinal or lung cancer. Almost all had received chemotherapy, and a smaller proportion had undergone radiation therapy.

The results were noteworthy. About 25% of patients in both groups showed some improvement in appetite. Forty-two percent of the patients on placebo alone experienced enhancement of their level of activity. About 40% of the patients experienced mild nausea and vomiting, but the two groups had no statistically significant differences in the number of episodes. There were no survival differences between patients receiving vitamin C and those receiving the placebo. The median survival time was approximately seven weeks from the onset of therapy. The longest surviving patient in this trial had received the placebo. Overall, the study showed no benefit from vitamin C [6].

After the study was published, Pauling complained in a letter to the editor that most patients had had extensive prior chemotherapy and were therefore immunologically compromised -- so no benefit from vitamin C in the patient population should be expected [7]. In response, the Mayo researchers pointed out that Pauling's own reports had said that all of his patients had undergone "perfectly conventional" therapy [8]. But Pauling maintained that only 4 of Cameron's 100 patients had received prior chemotherapy [7]. Curiously, at a meeting in February 1985 at the University of Arizona, Pauling stated that vitamin C therapy could be used along with all conventional forms of treatment [9].

A 1975 study at the Mayo Clinic had demonstrated that patients with advanced cancer can mount an immunological response. The study involved forty patients who had undergone chemotherapy for a gastrointestinal malignancy. Many of these patients had immune responses to BCG vaccine, indicating that people with advanced cancer are not uniformly or inevitably immunologically compromised [10]. Nevertheless, the Mayo researcher decided to retest vitamin C.

Mayo Study #2
Patients in the second Mayo study of vitamin C and cancer had tissue-proven colorectal adenocarcinoma that was considered incurable. They were ambulatory and had not had chemotherapy. Most had no symptoms. The patients were carefully classified according to the interval between the diagnosis of inoperable disease and entry into the study, the sites of metastasis, and whether there was a measurable area of tumor. A total of 51 patients were randomly allocated to vitamin C, and 49 patients were assigned to receive a milk-sugar placebo.

There were no objective regressions from either placebo or vitamin C for the 19 patients in each group who had measurable tumors. Among the patients who had symptoms when the study began, 7 (64%) of the 11 vitamin C patients and 11 (65%) of the 17 placebo patients claimed some degree of symptomatic relief. To be sure that patients were following the experimental protocol, urine specimens from five patients selected randomly from the treatment group and six patients from the control group were analyzed for vitamin C. The vitamin C patients had significant levels, while the five of the six placebo patients had negligible levels of urinary vitamin C. (The other patient was taking medications that made it impossible to interpret the test.)

The median survival for all patients was approximately 10-11 months, while that from entry into the study until "progression" was declared was about four months. (Progression was declared if a tumor increased significantly in size, new metastases occurred, symptoms or performance worsened substantially, or weight decreased 10% or more.) No meaningful differences were found between patients on vitamin C and those on placebo. Thus, there was no apparent benefit from treatment with high-dose vitamin C [11]

Mayo Study #3
Following publication of these results, some commentators suggested that the study patients might not have been representative of cancer patients as a whole -- that perhaps there was a subtle selection or referral bias that may have skewed the results. So a third prospective, randomized, stratified study was conducted under the auspices of the North Central Cancer Treatment Group, an international, multi-institutional, collaborative oncology group. Based primarily at the Division of Oncology at the Mayo Clinic, the group also had input from community-based cancer specialists in the Upper Midwest, Louisiana, Montana, Pennsylvania, and Saskatchewan, Canada.

This study included 71 patients on vitamin C and 73 patients on placebo. The patients were carefully matched by age and gender. Performance scores indicated that most of them had some disability from their advanced cancer. The sites of the primary cancers were virtually identical to those of the original study -- primarily lung and colorectal cancer -- and the distribution between treatment groups showed no meaningful differences by diagnosis or site. All had advanced cancer that had progressed after standard treatment.

Most patients had had prior chemotherapy, and a smaller proportion had undergone radiation therapy. The study found that the vitamin C group survived no longer than the placebo group. The median survival time was approximately one month, which is fundamentally the same as in the initial vitamin C study. The data did show something that was somewhat intriguing. At two weeks after the onset of therapy, some patients receiving vitamin C experienced substantial improvement in appetite, strength, and pain relief. However, these advantages quickly dissipated so that by 4-6 weeks, no meaningful advantage from vitamin C remained. The researchers concluded that vitamin C had provided transient symptomatic improvement in appetite and strength for a small pro-portion of treated patients. However, survival was not enhanced by vitamin C [12].

Thus, three prospectively randomized, placebo-controlled studies involving 367 patients documented no consistent benefit from vitamin C among cancer patients with advanced disease. Moreover, high doses of vitamin C can have significant adverse effects. High oral doses can cause diarrhea. High intravenous dosage has been reported to cause kidney failure due to clogging of the kidney tubules by oxalate crystals [13-15].

Despite these hard facts, many individuals still claim that high doses of vitamin C are useful as a cancer treatment. It is important for responsible health professionals to clarify this issue so that patients neither forfeit scientific care nor put themselves at risk by using a product that has no merit.

References
Cameron E, Pauling L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of cancer: prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer. Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences 73:3685-3689, 1976.
Cameron E, Pauling L. Supplemental ascorbate in the supportive treatment of cancer: reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer. Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences 75:4538-4542, 1978.
Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H. Prolongation of survival times of terminal cancer patients by administration of large doses of ascorbate. International Journal for Vitamin and Nutrition Research. Supplement 23:101-113, 1982.
DeWys WD. How to evaluate a new treatment for cancer. Your Patient and Cancer 2(5):31-36, 1982.
Gelband H and others. Unconventional cancer treatments. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1990, pages 120-127.
Creagan ET and others. Failure of high-dose vitamin C (ascorbic acid) therapy to benefit patients with advanced cancer. A controlled trial. New England Journal of Medicine 301:687-690, 1979.
Pauling L. Vitamin C therapy and advanced cancer (letter). New England Journal of Medicine 302:694, 1980.
Moertel CG, Creagan ET. Vitamin C therapy and advanced cancer (letter). New England Journal of Medicine 302:694-695, 1980.
Lowell J. Some notes on Linus Pauling. Nutrition Forum 2:33-36, 1985.
Moertel CG and others. Clinical studies of methanol extraction residue fraction of Bacillus Calmette-Guerin as an immunostimulant in patients with advanced cancer. Cancer Research 35:3075-3083, 1975.
Creagan ET and others. Failure of high-dose vitamin C (ascorbic acid) therapy to benefit patients with advanced cancer. A controlled trial. New England Journal of Medicine 301:687-690, 1979.
Tschetter L and others. A community-based study of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) in patients with advanced cancer. Proceedings of the American Society of Clinical Oncology 2:92, 1983.
McAllister CJ and others. Renal failure secondary to massive infusion of vitamin C. JAMA 252:1684, 1984.
Lawton JM. Acute oxalate nephropathy after massive ascorbic acid administration. Archives of Internal Medicine 145:950-951, 1985.
Wong K and others. Acute oxalate nephropathy after a massive intravenous dose of vitamin C. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Medicine 24:410-411, 1994
Guest_Tim
@trex

You said:
QUOTE

Mayo Study #1
... The patients were randomized to receive 10 grams of vitamin C per day or a comparably flavored lactose placebo. All patients took a glycerin-coated capsule four times a day.


Any study that uses "normal" oral vitamin C to combat cancer is doomed to failure, especially a puny amount like 10,000 mg.
Depending on what is going on in the patients GI tract, you will be lucky to get maybe 500mg into the blood stream. This small amount in the blood stream is worthless in the combat against cancer, and is used rapidly in the combat of free-radicals throughout the body.

What is needed is IV-C at a dose of 50,000 to 100,000mg per 24 hour period (70kg adult). This will have a positive outcome to a greater percentage of the cancer patients. (Standard screening before treatment is obvious, i.e. Renal, iron, etc.)

At this dose there is zero chance of toxicity or genetic damage. If the need arises, the dose may be increased to 250,000mg per 24 hour period.

Now please stop babbling about pathetic oral doses at 10,000mg.

As any Realtor will tell you what is important is location, location, location.
With vitamin C it is IV-C and dose, dose, dose.

Cheers,
Tim
pope4
i think this is silly.There is only so much your body can utilise.

Don't think you load the body with it and it will do magic.

Vitamins by definition you only need alittle bit.

Just because your kidneys can excrete them does not mean you can go
loading it like crazy.

Drugs in the right dosage is medicine.
Medicine overdosed is poison. Vitamin c included!!

Don't go with that crazy idea.

guy3288
[/QUOTE]
Depending on what is going on in the patients GI tract, you will be lucky to get maybe 500mg into the blood stream. This small amount in the blood stream is worthless in the combat against cancer, and is used rapidly in the combat of free-radicals throughout the body.[QUOTE]



Once cancer has developed, whatever amount of vitamin C even in IV form
would be worthless. Cancer cells grow and proliferate INDEPENDENTly
whether you wipe off the active radicals or not.

Since when the presence of excess active radicals have been found to be required for cancer cells to expand?

And you would be wrong to asssume that if we wipe off all the active radicals we would rid ourselves of problems. Mind you, active radicals are part and prcel of NORMAL human metabolism! You do not want to suppress that totally and you cannot even get near to achieving that, whatever you do.

neutrallook
QUOTE (guy3288+Jan 29 2007, 06:07 AM)
Pauling has proven that???? you must be joking. If high doses of vitamin C or any antioxidant for that matter can PREVENT cancer, then Pauling himself shouldn't have died of CANCER . And so are many more other  pill-poppers.


Many studies have indicated that Vitamin C in high doses cannot prevent cancer just like that.

Taking lots of natural food (vege and fruits) is definitely beneficial but the same cannot be said for taking the vitamins or antioxidants , there must be something else there, the other phytochems i mean.


Yes the study is doomed to show negative results, because Cancer is not so simple
to handle.HIgh doses of vitamin C is just gimmicry!


If swallowing lots of vitamin C pills have not been proven to reduce cancer deaths, how then can you expect to use vita C as first line therapy for cancer?

Naturally only those who have nothing to lose, should be subjected to this trial, just to show once and for all it's all gimmick.


Ethics demand that only proven therapy should be used, the unproven ones like IV vit C must start itself from the bottom up. At the bottom, it already failed to prove itself......that's why it is not used as first line therapy in cancer trials.

However if  Vit C can actually curtail cancerous growth, there should still be positive results even though it is used after chemo failed, unless you are saying that both work the same way.

For those who have the delusion to think that a weakened immune system is bound to cause the failure of  Vit C , let me say the very fact that cancer  has developed, it means your body immune system is already faulty. No amount of vitamins can reverse that bodily error of allowing cancerous cells to proliferate.

Not to be facetious, but if you are lets say 50, swallowing lots of chemotherapy pills will kill you outright before you reach the age of 60.

Linus Pauling lived to his full natural age (nearly an entire century old) by taking vitamin C. That is the point. The point is to live a healthful life up to the point you are genetically designed to die.

Yes, he did die of prostate cancer. Something will eventually make you die at the end of your natural life whether that is 70 or 120.

Vitamin C is not some kind of Methuselah pill and so your search for such evidence will turn up nothing on Vitamin C being a Methuselah pill. Certainly your favored synthetic drugs definitely, without any chance of refutation decrease life span. It is not epidemiological or associative, but it is a causative relationship that chemo kills you.

The idea behind chemo is "kill the cancer before it kills the patient." It is an incredibly dangerous and harmful hurry up and wait game. So the patients that have successfully killed any tumours have also come out of the treatment having ravaged their bodies and looking and feeling like victims out of Auschwitz. It is not uncommon that chemo simply maims the patient.

Read and study the Levine (USA NIH) studies regarding vitamin C and cancer.




huh.gif
Un - Registered
This trial has no validity unless each subject has been assayed for a heavy metal body burden. A trial of vitimin c is only putting acid on a heap of metals. Where do you find a control group that has no heavy metals? And why would you test vitimin c on a disease or condition that has no identified cause? blink.gif

The object of live is to die as young as you can, as late as you can.
Guest_guest
What a poor interpretation of pharmaceutical companies. I love the comment that they won't let a natural substance treat cancer patients because it won't make them any money. Talk about uneducated! What do you think most meds are made of? Natural substances are primarily what cancer treatments are made from, do some research before you bash the very companies out there trying to find a cure! Sure, alot of things revolve around the almighty dollar, but how else do you think they can fund there efforts?
pope4
What a poor interpretation of pharmaceutical companies. I love the comment that they won't let a natural substance treat cancer patients because it won't make them any money. Talk about uneducated! What do you think most meds are made of? Natural substances are primarily what cancer treatments are made from, do some research before you bash the very companies out there trying to find a cure! Sure, alot of things revolve around the almighty dollar, but how else do you think they can fund there efforts?
-------------------------------------------

They think since cancer drugs are so expensive and risky, no harm trying something else. Natural must be good? duhhh!

Little did they realise cancer is serious and there is no time for trial and error.

You waste time, that's it. ie you try IV vit C first, see no result then only you send patient for chemo, you are only making the cancer worse!!




oh really?
QUOTE (pope4+Feb 5 2007, 05:44 AM)

They think since cancer drugs are so expensive and risky, no harm trying something else. Natural must be good? duhhh!

Little did they realise cancer is serious and there is no time for trial and error.

You waste time, that's it. ie you try IV vit C first, see no result then only you send patient for chemo, you are only making the cancer worse!!

Hey pope4, can you read???

The study takes patients for whom chemotherapy and standard therapies have FAILED and then takes them to IV vitamin C.

You would be lucky to have 100:1 selectivity ratio for standard regimen drugs, which means that for every million cancer cells killed, you've also killed 10,000 normal cells. It's a fact that chemo kills you.

"Vitamin C makes cancer worse?" Let's not start adding absurd falsehoods into the debate.
pope4
oh really, wake up and read my comment in context!!

"IV Vit C makes cancer worse" REFERS to if you have cancer and you go try IV VIt C FIRST and not the standard chemo/rado or whatever the docs offered, you lose precious time and cancer cells won't pause to wait for you!


Can't you READ in this thread so many have critised the FDA for only allowing those failed Chemo cases to go for IV vit C?? These people have wanted cancer patients to go try IV vit C FIRST and that's what I think is silly!

Get it now?
oh really?
QUOTE (pope4+Feb 7 2007, 01:10 AM)
oh really, wake up and read my comment in context!!

"IV Vit C makes cancer worse" REFERS to if you have cancer and you go try IV VIt C FIRST and not the standard chemo/rado or whatever the docs offered, you lose precious time and cancer cells won't pause to wait for you!


Can't you READ in this thread so many have critised the FDA for only allowing those failed Chemo cases to go for IV vit C?? These people have wanted cancer patients to go try IV vit C FIRST and that's what I think is silly!

Get it now?

So you've tried it on patients? (answer = no)

What don't you understand about selectivity ratios? This is straight out of the horse's mouth of a company who is working on better cancer therapies.


Chemotherapy = 100 cancer cells killed for every 1 normal cell killed. Some advanced ones may kill 1000 cancer cells for every 1 normal cell killed.

1,000,000 cancer cells killed = 10,000 normal cells killed. Imagine doing that every day for months.

Maybe: 10,000,000 cancer cells killed = 10,000 normal cells killed.

The average rate of survival in Australia after 5 years of first line chemo is 2.3% In the USA it is 2.1% (from a good study, go find it yourself you are so smart.)

All chemotherapeutics are cardiotoxic, many first line therapies to the point of causing heart failure.

If you are dead after 5 years of chemotherapy, I guess you are finally cured of cancer.

Excellent job, pope4.



some questions for everyone:
1) If current drugs for cancer work so well and are so non-toxic, why is there another company springing up nearly every year to find a new drug for cancer?

2) If current companies and corporations have done their best and released their best product upon which they spent the most time and effort they could, why do they need to make new drugs? Aren't the old ones great?

3) Do chemotherapeutics really work?

4) What does a person experience when on chemotherapy?

5) When it works, what are the circumstances?

6) Are there other substances that work upon the same biochemical and molecular targets as chemotherapy without the side effects?





pope4
Come on oh really,

<So you've tried it on patients? (answer = no)>

People have used that IV Vit C for years yet you still don't know that
it DOES NOT work! The quacks have been using them long ago!

Don't be silly to think that IV VIt C is something new ok!
Only that so far there is no RCT on it, so you just wait and see ok?
As you can see many already expressed their lack of confidence for any favourable outcome/result.






<What don't you understand about selectivity ratios? This is straight out of the horse's mouth of a company who is working on better cancer therapies.>
Chemotherapy = 100 cancer cells killed for every 1 normal cell killed. Some advanced ones may kill 1000 cancer cells for every 1 normal cell killed. >>



While i agree that current chemo drugs are at best not 100% selective, but that's the fact you just have to face it. Whether you can accept the fact or not is your problem.

Scientists can keep on trying to create a very selective drug but if they haven't arrived there, that does not mean current chemo drugs are all useless.

To say that chemo drugs kill patients is to say that oncologists are all murderers by intention.
Go think about it.

Go ask the many cancer patients who have only praises for their docs for using chemo on their cancer and give them a second chance to live.

And to say all chemo drugs are cardiotoxic- it only shows your lack of knowledge in this area.




<<The average rate of survival in Australia after 5 years of first line chemo is 2.3% In the USA it is 2.1% (from a good study, go find it yourself you are so smart.) >>

Haven't you heard of Choriocarcinoma ? Go find out just how effective is chemotherapy there.

If there are incurable resistant cancers, you don't just throw your frustration around blindly, and say all chemo drugs are not effective. Be realistic boy, you can only expect so much depending on what god has given you.....

Chemo therapy itself DOES NOT kill patients. Patient dies from complications of the ADVANCE disease/cancer itself.

Of course if your docs are no good, do not know what chemo combination to use, how frequent to administer it,which route, when to use the rescuers, how to minimise organ reactions, and finally when to give up, that's a different issue altogether!

cherio!



oh really?
QUOTE (pope4+Feb 7 2007, 01:06 PM)
Come on oh really,

<So you've tried it on patients? (answer = no)>

People have used that IV Vit C for years yet you still don't know that
it DOES NOT work! The quacks have been using them long ago!

Don't be silly to think that IV VIt C is something new ok!
Only that so far there is no RCT on it, so you just wait and see ok?
As you can see many already expressed their lack of confidence for any favourable outcome/result.






<What don't you understand about selectivity ratios? This is straight out of the horse's mouth of a company who is working on better cancer therapies.>
Chemotherapy = 100 cancer cells killed for every 1 normal cell killed. Some advanced ones may kill 1000 cancer cells for every 1 normal cell killed. >>



While i agree that current chemo drugs are at best not 100% selective, but that's the fact you just have to face it. Whether you can accept the fact or not is your problem.

Scientists can keep on trying to create a very selective drug but if they haven't arrived there, that does not mean current chemo drugs are all useless.

To say that chemo drugs kill patients is to say that oncologists are all murderers by intention.
Go think about it.

Go ask the many cancer patients who have only praises for their docs for using chemo on their cancer and give them a second chance to live.

And to say all chemo drugs are cardiotoxic- it only shows your lack of knowledge in this area.




<<The average rate of survival in Australia after 5 years of first line chemo is 2.3% In the USA it is 2.1% (from a good study, go find it yourself you are so smart.) >>

Haven't you heard of Choriocarcinoma ? Go find out just how effective is chemotherapy there.

If there are incurable resistant cancers, you don't just throw your frustration around blindly, and say all chemo drugs are not effective. Be realistic boy, you can only expect so much depending on what god has given you.....

Chemo therapy itself DOES NOT kill patients. Patient dies from complications of the ADVANCE disease/cancer itself.

Of course if your docs are no good, do not know what chemo combination to use, how frequent to administer it,which route, when to use the rescuers, how to minimise organ reactions, and finally when to give up, that's a different issue altogether!

cherio!

Chemo may be effective for a few rare cancers. Still, the average rate of survival after 5 years of chemo in the USA of all cancers is 2.1%

That doesn't instill confidence in me, does it instill confidence in you? This is based on reality, not speculation.

The lack of confidence in a non-synthetic therapy is not based on reality, but speculation.

The chemo itself does not kill patients???? Yes it does. The whole idea of cytotoxic therapy is "Kill the tumor before the drug kills you."


azted1234
Since the FDA is so up on clinical trials, let's have one One Group IV vitamin C
The other standard chemo. I am sure that will have more volunteers for the
IV C considering the toxic side-effects of chemo.

[SIZE=7]

Very true about what the patients would choose if giving the choice. However in most hospitals they will not only discourage the use of vitamin C but tell you that the Hospital will not allow it for a patient. Your doctor will use every excuse to prevent you from choosing this type of natural cure. I have often wondered why this is. It is proven that it will pass right through your system if not needed. The only side effect is the possibility of the runs if too much is taken and even if that does not happen if you get IV-C in huge doses. We do know that most Chemo does not work. What if vitamin C does work. Will the FDA lie about it? Do you trust a Government that lies about just about everything. I sure don't and for doctors, most don't know squat about the effects of vitamins and the health of the body in fighting off viruses. Relieving pain is about it and for cures it become very rare.
pope4
aztec1234

what rubbish are you talking there?
Jade
Cancer is a multifactorial disease; Vitamin C has activity that is not specific to cancer, so do not be surprised if it's not the magic bullet that the Vitamin C evangelists are praying for.

But, if it works, fantastic.
winnybar
Chemo wrecks the immune system. Vitamin C helps the immune system. You have to have an intact immune system for Vitamin C to work. Patients with good immune systems will benefit by large doses of injected Vitamin C and oral Vitamin C. See www.orthomed.org However, other vitamins, minerals, amino acids are needed. Niacin, vanadium, zinc, and selenium for example.
Guest_Alan
As a newcomer to this forum, I have observed that no one has provided links to relevant info so I will follow that practice. For the skeptics out there you can go ahead and add another name to the list of people you wish to attack, Mark Levine. He has led two studies published in 2004 and 2005 that shed new light on the subject.

The first one, from the "Annals of Internal Medicine" web site, published 6 April 2004 (Volume 140 Issue 7 | Pages 533-537), titled "Vitamin C Pharmacokinetics: Implications for Oral and Intravenous Use". The second one, from the "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the U.S.A." web site, published September 12, 2005 (vol. 102 | no. 38 | 13604-13609), titled "Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: Action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues". Search for and read, at least the discussion, in both of those articles and then take a look at an article published on the "Canadian Medical Association Journal's" web site on March 28, 2006, titled "Intravenously administered vitamin C as cancer therapy: three cases".

Do not respond to this post until you have read this stuff. After that we can begin to have an INFORMED discussion and avoid the misinformation that has hindered real progress on the use of vitamin C as a cancer treatment.

As for Stephen Barrett and the quotes from his Quackwatch web site, those Mayo Clinic studies should be taught to all students of science as examples of how not to do science. They are amazingly bad science in that they are fundamentally flawed. The Pauling/Cameron cases were treated primarily with IV C, complemented by oral supplements. The Mayo Clinic studies ignored the IV C, opting for oral supplements alone to the tune of 10g per day. Even that is a joke since I regularly take in excess of 10g a day when I am not sick and the leading proponents of vitamin C supplements recommend up to 100g daily for A BAD CASE OF THE COMMON COLD!. If you read the articles I pointed out in my second paragraph it immediately becomes obvious that the Mayo Clinic studies could not possibly have worked and were maybe conducted specifically to discredit Pauling et al.

This is the only thing I have ever seen in my whole life that has the potential to provide a "cure" for such a broad range of cancers. What is not known is, why it does not work when it does not work. If the medical establishment had spent their time and energy researching this, instead of trying to discredit Pauling and his gang,
maybe they would have been well on the way to finding out all the conditions that need to exists for the IV vitamin C to work it's "miracle".

Alan Searchwell
Kingston
Jamaica

Fred Flinstone
I am a trained immunologist and have worked for over 20 years in new cancer treatment technologies. I have NO question as to whether BigPharma tries to prevent new therapies from reaching the market. This was witnessed firsthand.

HOWEVER, the current VC treatment is nothing more than a straw-man. VC is a type of anti-oxidant. After my career in cancer treatment after so many failures in fighting BigPharm, I decided to put my skills to work on animal health in primary industry.

From this experience I can testify without a doubt that VC has significant effects on animal (including human) health. The effects however affect the mechanisms that induce cancer, not the mechanisms that help a body fight an ongoing tumor burden. In fact, it could be argued that the opposite may be true, since cellular killing activity utilizes free-radicals which VC quenches.

CTCA is also a front for the anti-alternative movement which purports to be promoting what it covertly intends to suppress. I contend that the VC trial will be widely publicized as proof that alternative therapies fail in the clinic, an archetypal straw man argument.

Do not get me wrong, VC is recommended as a part of daily health management, BEFORE you are diagnosed with cancer.

kenfmkenner
In reference to, "some questions for everyone":
Answers: 1. Money!
2. Money!
3. NO!!!
4. "A HELL on earth!".
5. When does it work????
6. Emphatically YES!
The money gang fight "tooth & nail" any self applied treatments such as
herbal and other "alternative health methods".
They can't make money if people treat themselves!
Guest_il bagattel
The FDA is going to inject cancer patients with ascorbic acid, who already have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. This is not objective science.

Ascorbic acid is only the intermediate form of true vitamin C. The liver converts the ascorbic acid into the eight mineral ascorbates. These are the essential nutrients that the body utilizes for repair and creation of collagen. Dr. Irwin Stone was the chief discoverer and proponent of this.

When you arrive at the emergency room in a dehydrated condition, the first thing they do is put you on a sodium ascorbate drip. Why sodium and not one of the other C ascorbates? Sodium (along with calcium ascorbate and magnesium ascorbate) is stable and has shelf live. The other five must react within the body quickly before they degrade. There is only one company, to my knowledge, that has ever created a vitamin C product that delivers all 8 of the mineral ascorbates in a freshly reacted form for the body to utilize immediately. Also there is a difference between synthetic ascorbic acid and that derived from natural sources, with the bioflavinoids intact. No doubt the FDA will choose a synthetic.

This proposed test is a rigged-to-fail show to debunk all vitamin therapy. Vitamin C is much more beneficial at preventing cardiovascular diseases. No mention of that, eh? If they really wanted to learn something, they would administer C to a large demographic that was cancer prone, but not yet diagnosed as actively diseased, then do a long term observation to determine the statistical difference in the incidence of cancer in the vitamin takers and the control group.

Vitamin C is primarily a prophylactic therapy not a cure, although there are countless anecdotal stories of symptomatic relief from a wide variety of disease when vitamin C has been introduced into the subject.

The FDA has become a parody of its original mission statement and is headed by a man whose entire career has been spent in the pharmaceutical industry. Nothing of benefit to humanity is forthcoming from this organization these days. There is no reason to think that this vitamin C "study" will do anything other than serve the Tri-Lateral Commission's CODEX goal of restricting access to all beneficial supplementation.

Who benefits?
Jerome
The pH balance of the human bloodstream is recognized by all medical physiology texts as one of the most important biochemical balances in all of human body chemistry.

pH is the acronym for “Potential Hydrogen”. In definition, it is the degree of concentration of hydrogen ions in a substance or solution. It is measured on a logarithmic scale from 0 to 14. Higher numbers means a substance is more alkaline in nature and there is a greater potential for absorbing more hydrogen ions. Lower
numbers indicate more acidity with less potential for absorbing hydrogen ions.
Our body pH is very important because pH controls the speed of our body’s biochemical reactions. It does this by controlling the speed of enzyme activity as well as the speed that electricity moves through our body. The higher (more alkaline) the pH of a substance or solution, the more electrical resistance that substance or solution holds.

Therefore, electricity travels slower with higher pH.
All biochemical reactions and electrical (life) energy are under pH control.
If we say something has an acid pH, we are saying it is hot and fast. As an example, look at the battery of your car. It’s an acid battery. On cold days you want it to be hot and ready, and you want your car to start fast.

Alkaline pH on the other hand, biochemically speaking, is slow and cool. Compare it to an alkaline battery in a flashlight. You want that battery to be cool, and to burn out slowly.

Two time Nobel laureate, Dr. Otto Warburg of Germany, won his first Nobel Prize for his discovery of oxygen deficiency in the CANCER growth process. When pH is off and our bodies are running more acidic, our cells are getting less oxygen. Cancer thrives under an acid tissue pH/oxygen deficient environment.

As acids accumulate in our body, they get stored and pushed into the tissues. The area they get pushed to, on a local level, is going to be in large measure where in your body or with what organ you experience problems. When the body stores a molecule of excess acid, it will compensate by placing an extra alkaline
atom/molecule in the blood. The blood will therefore become increasingly alkaline.
Now something interesting happens with the uptake of oxygen when the blood is overly alkaline. With rising alkalinity, blood can increase its oxygen uptake; therefore the blood cells can hold more oxygen.

Pretty good, don’t you think? Well, if you think so, you’re wrong. The reason is, a little bit of biochemical reality known as the Bohr effect. The Bohr effect states that with rising blood alkalinity, the red blood cells can saturate themselves with ever more oxygen. The problem is, they can’t let go of it! If the blood cells can’t let go of oxygen, then the oxygen isn’t getting down to the other cells of the body. And do you recall what Otto Warburg discovered about cancer? It grows in an oxygen deficient environment.

Now let’s go further.

We have alkaline blood due to the fact we have increasingly acidic tissue and/or cells occuring somewhere in our body. We have an alkaline blood which can’t let go of its oxygen to aerate an increasingly acidic environment.

So get this ---- Here we have an Acidic environment with no oxygen. How can anything survive in this environment? Through anaerobic fermentation. What ferments anaerobically (i.e. without oxygen)? Yeast, mold and fungus. If that’s the case, then this should bring up a most logical question; Since cancer thrives in an anaerobic environment, what is cancer? If you answered fermenting mold and fungus, you get a gold star. That is exactly what cancer is.

We guzzle coffee for breakfast (acid), burgers for lunch (acid), wash it down with king size colas (acid), and have a pizza (acid) for dinner.

Is it any wonder today that cancer rates are up?
Timeless Traveler
STAGE ONE: 1900 Onward A Synthetics Belief System Emerges

At the outset of the 20th Century our food supply became an initial testing ground for innovations in the emerging ‘better life through chemistry’ belief system. Chemists work with food processing companies to create artificial sweeteners, a butter substitute, taste enhancing additives such as MSG, and the first partially hydrogenated vegetable shortening.

These synthetics set the stage for the revolution
in food processing that is to come.The United States began a significant effort to investigate “causes” of epidemic diseases.

In 1887, the effort was enhanced with the mandate of the U.S. “LABORATORY OF HYGIENE”. This lab was run by Dr. Joseph J. Kinyoun, a deep rooted-racist, who served the eugenics movement with dedication.

Two years later, 1889, we were able to identify “mycoplasmas”, a transmissible agent, that is now found at the heart of human diseases, including (AIDS) HIV. In 1893, we strengthened the Federal Quarantine Act and suddenly there was an explosion of polio.

In 1898, we knew we could use mycoplasma to cause epidemics, because we were able to do so in cattle, and we saw it in tobacco plants.In 1899, the U.S. Congress began investigating “leprosy in the United States”.

1900: Cancer is the tenth leading cause of death in the U.S., responsible for only three percent of all deaths. By the end of the 20th century, cancer will be the cause of 20 percent of all deaths in the U.S. Diabetes affects less than one-tenth of one percent of the U.S. population; by the end of the 20th century, almost 20 percent of U.S. citizens will contract types I or II diabetes. Asthma and related immune system diseases are virtually nonexistent; by the end of the 20th century at least 150 million people worldwide will be afflicted. Breast cancer in women is very rare in 1900; by 1960, breast cancer will affect one in 20 women; by 2005, one in three women will develop breast cancer.In 1902, We organized a “Station for Experimental Evolution” and we were able to identify diseases of an ethnic nature.

In 1904, we used mycoplasma to cause an epidemic in horses. 1906: The Pure Food and Drug Act is passed by the U.S. Congress, enabling the federal government to remove a food or drug product from circulation if its proves unsafe. But food processors and drug manufacturers are not required to prove their products are safe; the burden is on government to prove the products are unsafe before they can be removed.

In 1910, we used mycoplasma to cause an epidemic in fowl/birds.In 1917, we formed the “Federation of the American Society for Experimental Biology” (FASEB).

In 1918, the influenza virus killed millions of unsuspecting. It was a flu virus modified with a bird mycoplasma for which human primates had no “acquired immunity”

1920: From this date forward to 2000, the U.S. production of synthetic chemicals increases from less than one million pounds a year to more than 140 billion pounds a year.In 1921, lead eugenics philosopher, Betrand Russell, publicly supported the “necessity for “organized” plagues” against the Black population.

1921: General Mills Corporation creates a character named Betty Crocker to convince generations of Americans to use processed foods. Prior to this date a total of 20 reports of endometriosis in women had been reported worldwide; by the late 1990s, nearly 20 percent of all women of childbearing age are afflicted with endometriosis in the U.S.

1930: About 3,000 people this year out of a U.S. population of 123 million will die of heart disease; by 1997, at least 727,000 people will die of heart disease out of a U.S. population of 248 million.In 1931, we secretly tested African Americans and we tested AIDS in sheep.

1933: Industrial synthesis of vitamin C: A workable method of synthesizing vitamin C is turned into a commercial success by the pharmaceutical company Roche. A muckraking book, “100 Million Guinea Pigs: Dangers in Everyday Foods, Drugs, and Cosmetics,” is published and becomes a bestseller. It reveals many cases of harm and death from such products as eyelash liners that blind women, hair removal creams made from rat poison, and cataracts caused by a weight-loss drug. An American Journal of Medicine paper identifies a new type of diabetes resistant to insulin, called type 2 diabetes, which is becoming a disease epidemic in the U.S.In 1935, we learned we could crystallize the tobacco mycoplasma, and it would remain infectious.

1936: A report published by a committee of the U.S. Senate warns the American public: “Do you know that most of us today are suffering from certain dangerous diet deficiencies which cannot be remedied until the depleted soils from which our foods come are brought into proper mineral balance?”

1938: Pharmaceutical maker Roche, having mastered the industrial synthesis of vitamins A, B1, B2, E and K, becomes the world’s leading supplier of vitamins. A new federal law, The Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act takes effect. Though the law empowers the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to force manufacturers to prove their products are safe before marketing them, the FDA chooses to focus enforcement efforts on the accuracy of information on product labels. A powerful new pesticide called DDT is discovered by a Swiss chemist; in this same year British scientists synthesize a synthetic estrogen called DES. From this date until 1990, average human male sperm counts drop by almost 50 percent; during the same period the incidence of testicular cancer triples.

STAGE TWO: 1940-1961 Synthetics Transform Lifestyles

In Stage Two our lives are fundamentally altered by a series of synthetic chemical discoveries made in the years before and after World War Two. The pharmaceutical, pesticide, and fluoridation industries sink deep economic roots during this period and synthetics in food and clothing and household products become widely accepted as necessities of convenience.

1940: The petrochemical era is born. Using new technology that involves thermal and catalytic tracking, synthetic chemicals are created from petroleum that have never existed before. From this date forward to 1982, the production of synthetic chemicals increases 350 times; a new chemical substance is being discovered every nine seconds of every work day.

1941: The FDA approves DES for use as a treatment for menopausal women. Later the FDA extends DES use to a variety of conditions associated with pregnancy.

In 1943, we officially began our bio-warfare program. Shortly thereafter, we were finding our way to New Guinea to study mycoplasma in humans. Then in 1945, we witnessed the greatest influx of foreign scientists in history into the U.S. biological program. Operation Paperclip will live in infamy as one of the darkest programs of a twisted parallel government fixated on genocide.

1945: Nerve gas research conducted during the war results in the development of chemicals toxic to insects, producing an explosion in the production of pesticides. Now they call it “chemotherapy”.In 1946, the United States Navy hired Dr. Earl Traub, a notorious racist biologist. A appropriations hearing confirms the existence of a “secret” biological weapon.

1946: A trend of widespread patenting of individual drugs and their chemical ingredients by U.S. pharmaceutical companies begins; previously the attitude of these drug companies had been to avoid patenting to remain ‘ethical’ in the eyes of consumers. Now drug manufacturers can keep drug prices artifically high.

1947: Sex hormones are first introduced into livestock production to add more fat and weight on the animals. One of those hormones, DES, is hailed as the most important development in the history of food production. Several decades later DES is found to cause cancer. Even after the FDA bans this substance, cattle continue to be administered illegal doses of DES.

In 1948, we know that the United States confirmed the endorsement of “devising a scheme” in which to address the issue of overpopulation in certain racial groups. State Department’s George McKennan’s memo will forever illuminate the eugenics mendacity necessary for genocide of millions of innocent people.

1948: From this date forward the American food industry doubles the amount of MSG every decade adding it to processed foods, including baby food. By the end of the century, researchers will discover that MSG can trigger dozens of toxic reactions in the human body.

In 1949, Dr. Bjorn Sigurdsson isolates the VISNA virus. Visna is man made and shares some “unique DNA” with HIV. Proceedings of the United States, NAS, Vol. 92, pp. 3283 - 7, (April 11, 1995).1949: The breast cancer rate for women is 58 cases per 100,000 people; within 40 years the breast cancer rate will be more than 100 cases per 100,000 people. The lifetime risk of contracting breast cancer more than doubles.

1950: From this date forward to 2000, the overall incidence of cancer in the U.S. rises by 55 percent, with lung cancer due to smoking accounting for only one-quarter of this increase. Rates for breast cancer and male colon cancer increase during this period by 60 percent; testicular cancer by 100 percent; adult brain cancer by 80 percent; childhood cancer by 20 percent.In 1951, we now know our government conducted its first virus attack on African Americans. Crates in Pennsylvania were tainted to see how many Negro crate handlers in Virginia would acquire the placebo virus.. They were also experimentally infecting sheep and goats. According to author Eva Snead, they also held their first world conference on an AIDS-like virus.

1952: From this date forward to 1987, the production and use of synthetic pesticides in the U.S. will increase 13,000 times faster than before and just after World War II.1953: Dr. George Waldbott, vice president of the American College of Allergists, issues a warning that even small amounts of fluoride in water can cause acute and painful allergies. Whenever Dr. Waldbott’s own patients stop drinking fluoridated water, they no longer experience headaches, muscle weakness, and stomach upsets.In 1954, Dr. Bjorn Sigurdsson publishes his first paper on Visna virus and establishes himself as the “Grandfather of the AIDS virus.” He will encounter competition from Dr. Carlton Gajdusek.

In 1955, they were able to artificially assemble the tobacco mosaic virus. Mycoplasmas will forever be at the heart of the U.S. biological warfare program

In 1957, future U.S. president, Rep Gerald Ford and others gave the U.S. Pentagon permission to aggressively deploy offensive biological agents. There are no recorded cases of AIDS prior to the 1957 creation of “Special Operation-X.” (The SOX) program served as the immediate prototype program for the Special Virus program to begin in 1962.

By 1960, Nikita Kruschev had been let in on the biological weapon. His 1960 statement will long reflect the arrogance of the secret blend of communism and democracy. The two countries would go to a November 1972 agreement to cull the Black Population.In 1961, scientist Haldor Thomar publishes that viruses cause cancer. In 1995, he and Carlton Gajdusek informed the National Academy of Sciences that “the study of visna in sheep would be the best test for candidate anti-HIV drugs.”

1961: The FDA approves a medication called Ritalin for use by children with behavior problems. By 1975, about 150,000 children in the U.S. will be taking Ritalin. By 2005, about 6 million U.S. children will be using Ritalin, representing 85 percent of total Ritalin consumption in the entire world.

STAGE THREE: 1962-1973 Synthetic Toxins Migrate

In Stage Three a watershed event in public policy comes in 1962 with the publication of Rachel Carson’s book, Silent Spring, documenting how toxic synthetic chemicals migrate through the environment and into the flesh of fish and animals. The spread of toxic chemicals is not limited to pesticides, but as later studies will show includes a wide range of common synthetic chemicals that begin to contaminate all human bodies.

In 1961, scientist Haldor Thomar publishes that viruses cause cancer. In 1995, he and Carlton Gajdusek informed the National Academy of Sciences that “the study of visna in sheep would be the best test for candidate anti-HIV drugs.”

In 1962, under the cover of cancer research, the United States charts a path to commit premeditated murder, the “Special Virus” program begins on February 12th. Dr. Len Hayflick sets up a U.S. mycoplasma laboratory at Stanford University. Many believe the “Special Virus” program began in November 1961 with a Phizer contract.Beginning in 1963 and for every year thereafter, the “Special Virus” program conducted annual progress reviews at Hershey Medical Center, Hershey, PA. The annual meetings are representative of the aggressive nature in which the United States pursued the development of AIDS.

In 1964, the United States Congress gave full support for the leukemia/lymphoma (AIDS) virus research.1963: The drug thalidomide is given to pregnant women for morning sickness. More than 6,000 babies are born with severe deformities as a result of using the drug. Six years go by before this drug is finally withdrawn from the marketplace. From this date forward, scholastic aptitude scores for U.S. high school children plummet every year. By the end of the century a possible link will be drawn to their consumption of food additives and other synthetic chemicals.

1964: From this date to 1992, according to the USDA, chemical pesticide use in U.S. agriculture increased by 300 percent, though total cropland under cultivation remained virtually the same.

1965: A worldwide study of heart disease called the International Atherosclerotic Project studies 20,000 autopsied human bodies from throughout the world and finds clear evidence that people who consumed more saturated fats had more heart attacks and more strokes. A chemist working for G.D. Searle Company discovers aspartame, an artificial sweetener.

In 1967, the National Academy of Sciences launched a full scale assault on Africa. The CIA (Technical Services Division) acknowledged its secret inoculator program.

1968: A Washington University in St. Louis scientist gives doses of MSG to laboratory mice and discovers widespread brain damage, especially in immature and newborn animals. A U.S. Food and Drug Administration report reveals that lab animals fed irradiated foods “showed increases in pituitary cancer, testicular tumors, reduced fertility, and shortened life spans.”

In 1969, Fort Detrick told world scientists and the Pentagon asked for more money, they knew they could make AIDS. Nixon’s July 18 secret memo to Congress on “Overpopulation” serves as the start of the paper trail of the AIDS Holocaust.In 1970, President Nixon signed PL91-213 and John D. Rockefeller, III became the “Population Czar.” Nixon’s August 10 National Security Memo leaves no doubt as to the genocidal nature of depopulation. In this year Americans spend $6 billion on fastfood provided by McDonald’s and other fastfood chains; by the year 2001, Americans will be spending $110 billion a year on fastfood, more than on music, videos, newspapers, magazines, movies and books combined.

In 1971, Progress Report #8 is issued. Eventually the Special Virus program will issue 15 reports and over 20,000 scientific papers. The first sixty pages of progress report #8 of the Special Virus program prove conclusively the specific goal of the program. By June 1977, the Special Virus program had produced 15, 000 gallons of AIDS. The AIDS virus was attached as complement to vaccines sent to Africa and Manhattan. However, because of the thoroughness of authors, like Dr. Robert E. Lee, we also learn the Stanford Mycoplasma Laboratory issues one of the first papers with AIDS in the title. “Viral Infections in Man Associated with Acquired Immunological Deficiency States.” The primary scientist, Dr. Thomas Merigan, was a “consultant” to the Special Virus program.

Progress Report # 8 at 104 - 106 proves Dr. Robert Gallo was secretly working on the development of AIDS with full support of the sector of the U.S. government that seeks to kill its citizens. Dr. Gallo can not explain why he excluded his role as a “project officer” for the Special Virus program from his biographical book. Dr. Gallo’s early work and discoveries will finally be viewed in relation to the flowchart. We now know where every experiment fits into the flowchart. The “research logic” is irrefutable evidence of a federal “Manhattan-style project” to develop a “contagious” cancer that “selectively” kills.

Dr. Gallo’s 1971 paper is identical to his 1984 AIDS announcement.Progress Report #8 at 273 - 286 proves we gave AIDS to monkeys. Since 1962, the United States and Dr. Robert Gallo have been inoculating monkeys and re-releasing them back into the wild. Thus, even government scientists are baffled that both HIV-1 and HIV-II would “suddenly emerge” from two distinct monkey ancestral relatives during the last 100 years. A 1999 Japanese study will ultimately prove the Man to Monkey origin of Monkey AIDS. The monkey experiments summary definitively proves Monkey AIDS is also man-made.

1971: An association is found between mothers who took DES and a rare form of vaginal cancer in their daughters. Apparently the DES taken during pregnancy affected fetal development. The U.S. Congress declares war on cancer with the National Cancer Act; 30 years later, the overall death rate from cancer will remain the same as the date this war was declared. Japanese food scientists syntheize in a laboratory a cheaper sweetener called high-fructose corn syrup that can be used in frozen foods as protection from freezer burn, as well as in baked goods and vending machine foods to hold freshness. An unanticipated discovery in later years is that fructose, once consumed, arrives almost intact in the human liver, not breaking down. No one can yet guess the health implications. The U.S. Department of Agriculture prepares a publication called “Human Nutrition, Report No. 2, Benefits from Human Nutrition Research,” that attributes most major health problems to nutritional deficiencies found in the modern diet. For 21 years this report will be suppressed from public view, allegedly at the behest of the food processing industry. In 1972 The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) bans the pesticide DDT for its cancer-causing potential in humans.

In 1972, the United States and the Soviet Union entered into a biological agreement that would signal the death knell for the Black Population. The 1972 agreement for collaboration and cooperation in the development of offensive biological agents is still U. S. policy.

In 1973, we find that world scientist, Garth Nicolson reports on his project, “Role of the Cell Surface in Escape From Immunological Surveillance.” His report is accompanied by seven published papers. Dr. Nicolson worked in conjunction with the Special Virus program from 1972 until 1978. Dr. Nicolson is considered by some to be Dr. Gallo’s “West Coast” counterpart. It is strongly held that because of Dr. Nicolson, Dr. Robert Gallo and Dr. Luc Montagnier would secretly meet in Southern California to coordinate what they would and would not say about the special virus development program.

1973: From this date until 1991, a 126 percent increase in prostate cancer is reported by the National Cancer Institute. From this date until 1996, childhood leukemia increases 17 percent, childhood brain cancer increases 26 percent, breast cancer in women increases 25 percent, and testicular cancer increases 41 percent. A pediatric allergist tells a conference of the American Medical Association that food additives acount for half of the hyperactivity cases he sees among his child patients. These children improve dramatically when they no longer consume foods with synthetic colorings, flavors, or preservatives. The FDA bans the artificial coloring agent Violet No. 1 as a carcinogen. This cancer-causing dye had been used for the past two decades by the U.S. Agriculture Department to stamp every piece of meat sold in the U.S. with grades of “Prime” or “Choice” or “USDA.”

STAGE FOUR: 1974 Onward Food Quality Deteriorates

In Stage Four of the Slippery Slope Index, most meat, fish and dairy products by the 1970s, if factory farmed, are laced with growth hormones, antibiotics, and a range of pesticides and other toxins. Processed foods have exploded in the sheer numbers of products on grocery store shelves and most are composed of synthetic chemical additives, such as colorings, preservatives, sugar substitutes, and taste enhancers. Fast food franchises have also emerged as the primary restaurant dining experience for most Americans.

In 1974, Furher Henry Kissinger releases his NSSM-200 (U.S. Plan to Address Overpopulation). It is the only issue of discussion at the World Population Conference in Bucharest, Romania. The men in the shadows had won, the whole world agrees to secretly cull Africa’s population. Today it is Africa and other undesirables. Tomorrow it may be you.

In 1975, President Gerald Ford signs National Security Defense Memorandum #314. The United States implements the Kissinger NSSM-200.1974: The U.S. FDA approves the artificial sweetener aspartame after its manufacturer, G.D. Searle, submits study results showing its safety. A year later an FDA task force finds evidence some of the data submitted by Searle had been falsified to hide results showing animals fed aspartame had developed seizures and brain tumors, but no recall or ban is enacted.

1975: A report by the World Conference on Animal Production estimates that factory farmed animals contain up to 30 times more saturated fat than animals raised just three decades earlier.

In 1975, President Gerald Ford signs National Security Defense Memorandum #314. The United States implements the Kissinger NSSM-200.In 1976, the United States issues Progress Report #13 of the Special Virus program. The report proves the United States had various international agreements with the Russians, Germans, British, French, Canadians and Japanese. The plot to kill Black people has wide international support.

In March, the Special Virus began production of the AIDS virus, by June 1977, the program will have produced 15,000 gallons of AIDS. President Jimmy Carter allows for the continuation of the secret plan to cull the Black Population.1976: The director of the National Cancer Institute, Arthur Upton, tells a committee of the U.S. Congress that half of all cancers are caused by diet.

In 1977, Dr. Robert Gallo and the top Soviet Scientists meet to discuss the proliferation of the 15,000 gallons of AIDS. They attach AIDS as complement to the Small pox vaccine for Africa, and the “experimental” hepatitis B vaccine for Manhattan. According to authors June Goodfield and Alan Cantwell, it is Batch #751 that was administered in New York to thousands of innocent people. This government will never be able to repay the people for the social rape, humiliation and out right prejudice people with HIV/AIDS face on a daily basis. The men in the shadows of the AIDS curtain accurately calculated that you would not care if only Blacks and gays are dying.

In fact you don’t care that nearly a half million Gulf War veterans are encumbered with something contagious. Soon there will be no more Black people and a confused military, older White people will start suddenly dying and you still won’t get it. 1977: The National Institutes of Health issues the first of three warnings that an epidemic of obesity is looming in the U.S.

From this date forward to 1994 the number of children in special education programs as a result of learning disabilities increases 191 percent. Testing by the FDA finds 38 percent of all grocery foods sampled contain pesticide residue; by 1998 the FDA will discover that 55 percent of all foods sampled contain pesticides.

1982: From this date to 1992, the annual death rate from asthma among young people increases by more than 40 percent.

1985: A Smithsonian Institute cancer scientist publishes scientific papers demonstrating that historical outbreaks of cancer in fish only began after the widespread distribution of synthetic chemicals in the early 20th century. The medical journal Lancet reports a study in which 79 percent of hyperactive children improve when artificial colorings and flavorings are eliminated from their diet. Between 1976 and this date, reports the U.S. General Accounting Office, more than half of the 198 drugs approved by the FDA turned out to demonstrate serious health risks that included organ failure and death.

1986: The National Academy of Sciences releases a report estimating that up to 15 percent of the U.S. population suffers from multiple chemical sensitivities causing various degrees of discomfort; by 1993, just six years later, the Academy will estimate that figure has doubled to 30 percent of the population.

1988: The British medical journal The Lancet publishes a study showing a correlation between vitamin/mineral supplementation and intelligence scores among British schoolchildren. Dietary deficiencies were found to be hindering school performance.

1989: A division of the National Academy of Sciences warns that the use of antibiotics in factory farms will create antibiotic resistant bacteria that will seriously undermine human health. A laboratory study in Boston finds that rats given moderate amounts of fluoride in their drinking water give birth to hyperactive babies, while baby rats exhibit retardation and other cognitive defects. Many Americans are routinely exposed to higher relative levels of fluoride than the levels administered to the rats.

1990: From this date forward, more than 120,000 NEW processed foods and beverages will be introduced into a marketplace already filled with 320,000 food products competing for shelf space. From this date to 1998, the incidence of diabetes in the U.S. will increase by 33 percent.

1992: The FDA announces a finding that 65 percent of women’s cosmetics sampled contain carcinogenic contaminants.

1994: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approves the marketing of genetically modified foods. Within seven years, genetically modified varieties will account for 26 percent of the corn, 68 percent of the soybeans and 69 percent of the cotton planted in the United States. Food processors will use ingredients from transgenic corn and soybeans in 60 percent of processed foods on grocery store shelves. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that the number of low-birth-weight infants rose 6.6 percent in the U.S. between 1981 and 1991.

1997: A study in the medical journal, Pediatrics, reports the results of a survey of 17,000 girls that finds by the age of eight about one in seven white girls and one out of every two African-American girls are starting puberty with breast growth and pubic hair. Even more startling, one out of every one hundred white girls and three out of every one hundred African-American girls show these characteristics at the age of three years old! The explanation for this early onset of puberty seems to be in their diets.

STAGE FIVE: 1998 Onward Health Impacts Accelerate

1998: The Council for Responsible Nutrition reports that the U.S. health care system can save $10 billion a year on the costs of treating breast, lung and stomach cancers if only Americans would consume recommended levels of vitamin C, vitamin E, and beta-carotene.

A study published in The Journal of the American Medical Association reveals that 106,000 people die each year in American hospitals from the side effects of prescription medications.

Another 2.2 million people a year have serious but nonfatal reactions to prescribed drugs. Adverse drug reactions have become the 4th leading cause of death in the U.S. As of this date, 75,500 synthetic chemicals are registered as appearing in consumer products, agriculture and industry.

The EPA has over 24,000 pesticides registered and the FDA oversees 8,000 chemicals used in cosmetics and as food additives. The Journal of Epidemiology publishes a study showing serious negative side effects from chlorine byproducts found in drinking water. Chlorinated tap water in three regions of California increased miscarriages among women who drank more tap water containing chlorine than bottled water.

1999: According to the Centers for Disease Control, the annual reported number of foodborne disease cases in the U.S. amounts to 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations and 5,000 deaths. Most are caused by viruses and bacteria.

As of this year, more than 25,000 cosmetics chemicals are in use. Less than 4 percent of these cosmetics ingredients have been tested for safety in humans.

On November 4, 1999, the U.S. White House announced,.... “Within a period as short as five years, all new infections of HIV in the United States will be African American....”

At some point our experts must be allowed to begin the interface process of allowing the history of this virus program to count. It is ludicrous and preposterous to fail to review the U.S. virus program in which to elucidate the etiology of AIDS.2000: The National Academy of Sciences reports that half of all pregnancies in the U.S. result in less than healthy babies.

Up to one-third of the developmental defects in these babies were caused by exposure to toxic chemicals. Half of all Americans now take at least one prescription drug every day; 25 percent of Americans take multiple prescription drugs every day. The incidence of testicular cancer is now estimated to be four times higher than just 50 years earlier.

The Physicians for Social Responsibility releases a report describing “an epidemic of developmental, learning and behavioral disabilities” affecting an estimated 12 million children in the U.S. Evidence suggests the epidemic may be a result of toxic chemicals affecting the central nervous system of these children.

2001: The Center for Disease Control announces that the food we eat is responsible for twice the numbers of illnesses in the U.S. in comparison to just seven years earlier. The Journal of the American Medical Association publishes a study revealing that of 6.7 million adult annual visits to the doctor for a sore throat between 1989 and 1999, antibiotics were prescribed in 73 percent of the visits even though antibiotics do not treat viral infections.

2002: The Journal of the American Medical Association reports a relationship between chronic disease and vitamin intake, recommending that all adults take at least one multi-vitamin a day because the absence of these vitamins in their food puts them at risk for cancer, cardiovascular disease, and osteoporosis.

The U.S. pharmaceutical industry now employs 675 lobbyists, including 26 former members of Congress, and spends $91 million a year on influencing decisionsmade by Congress. For the first time since 1958, the U.S. infant mortality rate increases. It is now twice that of Japan and most other industrial nations. Harvard School of Public Health researchers report in the journal Epidemiology that phthalates found in plastics may be contributing to reproductive defects.

The study of 168 male patients at a fertility clinic found that the men with the highest levels of phthalates in their blood were also those with the lowest sperm counts and lowest sperm activity. A study in the medical journal, Archives of Disease in Childhood, reveals how 400 children were tested for the effects of food additives and artifical preservatives on their behavior.

The results demonstrated “a substantial effect” of these synthetics stimulating hyperactivity and behavioral problems. 2005: The FDA announces that it is issuing twice the number of public advisories about drug risks and adding five times as many black box warnings on drug labels as it did just a year earlier.

U.S. Geological Survey scientists in Colorado discover that the byproducts of anti-bacterial soap, prescription drugs, steroids, bug spray and other chemical products are entering streams and groundwater and disrupting fish reproduction while increasing resistance to antibiotics among people who consume the fish.

The medical journal Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers and Prevention reports a Columbia University study examining the health effects of exposure of pregnant women to air pollutants in New York City.

A 50 percent increase in the level of persistent genetic abnormalities in infants was detected in those whose mothers had high air pollution exposure. Yale School of Medicine researchers report that low doses of the environmental contaminant bisphenol-A (BPA) used to make many plastics found in food storage containers can lead to learning disabilities in children and neurodegenerative diseases in adults.

2006: Surgical clinics surveyed by The Sunday Times in Britain report a sharp upsurge in the numbers of men seeking breast reduction surgery. Hormones in the water are blamed for a doubling of cases in just a year of gynecomastia, a hormonal-induced growth in men’s breasts. Researchers with the Southern California Coastal Water Research Project discover that two-thirds of some species of fish examined from coastal waters off Los Angeles and Orange counties possess both male and female reproductive organs. The seafloor sediment in these areas is contaminated with estrogenic chemicals from wastewater effluent generated by nine million inhabitants of coastal cities.

A report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of the U.S. Congress, finds that the EPA is failing to protect people from tens of thousands of toxic chemicals. Chemical companies have provided health impact data to the EPA for only about 15 percent of chemicals introduced over the past 30 years.

WHAT DO THEY HAVE PLANNED FOR OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE AFTER WE HAVE BEEN DRUGGED TO DEATH???

YOU HUMANS HAD BETTER WAKE UP BEFORE YOUR EXTINCT.
FumbDuck
"Only patients who have exhausted all other conventional treatment options are eligible to receive the therapy," Lis said.

Oh Yeah, let's only make the treatment available to people that are so far gone that they are going to die no matter what.

Here is the key to the failure of this treatment!!!
Guest_Alan
Fred Flinstone,

Again, I say read the following three pages

www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/7/533
www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/102/38/13604
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/7/937

All of which seem to be pretty sound science to me. I invite everybody who posted on this topic to read them and comment. C'mon, take the red pill. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is my considered opinion that vitamin C and other dietary supplements that form the backbone of nutritional medicine have the potential to cause the collapse of the entire pharmaceutical industry. With the kind of money that is at stake here, will we ever witness this? I doubt it. If you are in doubt read some of the stuff written by the leading proponents of vitamin c therapy (Abram Hoffer, Robert Cathcart, Linus Pauling and others) and you will get a sense of their frustration with the inertia of the medical establishment when it comes to vitamin c and nutritional therapy in general. What is sad for me is that I lost my mother in 2002 and may loose a sister this year despite all the advances in modern medical science (both of them had access to the best health care available in England).
shel
Key phrase after exhausting conventional methods.Translation after killing your immune system and frying your vital organs so that the fda can say see vit c does not work. If they really wanted to know and they probably already do, they would have a control group that had no conventional treatment prior to trying vit c.
haiyent
www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/7/533

Vitamin C Pharmacokinetics: Implications for Oral and Intravenous Use
Sebastian J. Padayatty


There is nothing in this study to support IV vit C as cancer therapy.


Here is the editor's remark:

Context
Clinical studies of vitamin C as a potential anticancer agent have produced inconsistent results despite in vitro evidence that high concentrations kill cancer cells.

Cautions

Although this study provides better understanding of the pharmacokinetic issues involved in research on vitamin C, it provides NO EVIDENCE that vitamin C has any effect on cancer cells and CANNOT be used to support its clinical use for therapeutic purposes.

–The Editors
haiyent
High-dose vitamin C therapy: Renewed hope or false promise?
Sarit Assouline


Complementary and alternative medicine is commonly used by patients with cancer. Anywhere from 22% to 69% of cancer patients may take herbal medicine, medicinal teas, vitamins and minerals, and use visualization techniques.1 There is often great pressure put on oncologists by their patients to support the use of and even to prescribe alternative therapies for the treatment of cancer, in particular when no cure or effective therapy exists. Although oncologists might dissuade their patients from pursuing therapies that are likely to be ineffective, in the face of desperate circumstances many patients insist on taking complementary and alternative medicine concurrently with "standard" therapies. A critical concern of most oncologists is whether use of complementary and alternative therapies can cause harm, especially when taken concurrently with a chemotherapy regimen that has a narrow therapeutic index.

But should our concern move beyond adverse events? If a large proportion of patients are interested in alternative remedies that have biologically plausible therapeutic potential, it is the responsibility of conventional medicine to encourage the preclinical and clinical research necessary to demonstrate or refute the efficacy and safety of these treatments, according to the scientific method and rigorous standards set for conventional cancer therapies.2

The Office of Cancer Complementary and Alternative Medicine (OCCAM) at the US National Cancer Institute was established in 1998 for this purpose. Not only does it warn people of the harmful effects of some alternative therapies, it also directs them toward available clinical trials of complementary and alternative therapies for cancer and provides peer review and funding for research into these therapies (www.cancer.gov/cam/). OCCAM also provides guidelines to standardize the reporting of cases of effective therapies. This format was used by Padayatty and associates in this issue (page 937) to report on 3 cases where advanced malignant disease was effectively treated with high doses of intravenous vitamin C therapy.3 The detailed and transparent reporting of these cases, with pathologic review by the National Cancer Institute, raises, once again, the possibility that high-dose intravenous vitamin C therapy may be effective against some cancers.

However, these are only 3 individual cases of very different types of cancer, and in each case there is a possible alternative explanation for the positive outcome. One patient had remission of renal cell carcinoma after vitamin C therapy; however, spontaneous remission has been reported.4This possibility is correctly raised by Padayatty and colleagues.

Another patient, before embarking on vitamin C therapy, underwent a transurethral resection of a stage T2 transitional cell bladder carcinoma; this treatment alone can result in long-term remission.5

In the third case described, a patient with diffuse large B-cell lymphoma refused chemotherapy but received radiation therapy. Radiation was once the standard of care for diffuse large B-cell lymphoma and can lead to long-term remission, at least in earlier-stage cases.6Furthermore, all 3 patients received other forms of complementary and alternative medicine that practitioners of alternative medicine may argue are effective in treating these cancers.

Finally, these case reports omit the number of patients who received high-dose intravenous vitamin C therapy with no effect. Because these cases were collected over many years from several institutions, this number may be quite large and the overall response rate quite low.

Despite the possible alternative explanations for the favourable outcomes of the 3 patients, Padayatty and associates and CMAJ should be commended for publishing detailed case reports so that critical appraisal is possible.

haiyent

Safety
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration does not strictly regulate herbs and supplements. There is no guarantee of strength, purity or safety of products, and effects may vary. You should always read product labels. If you have a medical condition, or are taking other drugs, herbs, or supplements, you should speak with a qualified healthcare provider before starting a new therapy. Consult a healthcare provider immediately if you experience side effects.
Side Effects and Warnings

General : Vitamin C is generally regarded as safe in amounts obtained from foods. Vitamin C supplements are also generally regarded as safe in most individuals in recommended amounts, although side effects are rarely reported including nausea, vomiting, heartburn, abdominal cramps, and headache. Dental erosion may occur from chronically chewing vitamin C tablets.

High doses/toxicity : High doses of vitamin C have been associated with multiple adverse effects, particularly at doses greater than 2000 mg/day. These include kidney stones, severe diarrhea, nausea, and gastritis. Rarely, flushing, faintness, dizziness, and fatigue have been noted. Large doses may precipitate hemolysis (red blood cell destruction) in patients with glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency. High doses of vitamin C should be avoided in people with conditions aggravated by acid loading, such as cirrhosis, gout, renal tubular acidosis, or paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria. Parenteral (injected) vitamin C may cause dizziness, faintness, injection site discomfort, and in high doses may lead to renal insufficiency (kidney function problems). In cases of toxicity due to massive ingestions of vitamin C, forced fluids and diuresis may be beneficial.

Warnings : High doses of vitamin C should be avoided in patients with glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency, kidney stones, cirrhosis, gout, renal tubular acidosis, or paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria.

Tolerance/resistance : Healthy adults who take chronic large doses of vitamin C may experience low blood levels of vitamin C when they stop taking the high doses and resume normal intake. To avoid this potential complication, people who are taking high doses who wish to reduce their intake should do so gradually rather than acutely. There are rare reports of scurvy due to tolerance or resistance following cessation after long-term high-dose use, such as in infants born to mothers taking 400 mg/day or greater throughout their pregnancy.


Alan Searchwell
QUOTE (haiyent+May 2 2007, 01:06 PM)
www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/7/533

Vitamin C Pharmacokinetics: Implications for Oral and Intravenous Use
Sebastian J. Padayatty


There is nothing in this study to support IV vit C as cancer therapy.



What???? This study was followed by the second study that clearly states, and I quote,"Taken together, these data indicate that ascorbate at concentrations achieved only by i.v. administration may be a pro-drug for formation of H2O2, and that blood can be a delivery system of the pro-drug to tissues. These findings give plausibility to i.v. ascorbic acid in cancer treatment, and have unexpected implications for treatment of infections where H2O2 may be beneficial."

The whole point of the first study is to establish the difference in blood plasma levels of vitamin c between oral and i.v. doses. What this study proves is that without i.v. administration, the levels of vitamin c that are required to produce the results in the second study, can never be achieved. This partly explains why the Mayo Clinics studies on the use of vitamin C as a cancer treatment produced no significant results. The Mayo Clinic Studies used 10g per day of vitamin C taken orally. If one were to read the works of Frederick Klenner, Irwiin Stone and Robert Cathcart, one would realize that a 10g per day dose is considered a piddling dose by vitamin C proponents. Add to this relatively tiny dose, considering the severety of the disease, the fact that no i.v. C was given, it is no wonder the Mayo Clinic Study produced the results it did!

On your second post about false promise, the last sentence says it all. What needs to be done now is to examine as many of the critical differences between the cases that resulted in success and those that did not, as can be examined. Maybe then a complete picture could be created of all the biochemical conditions that need to exist for the treatment to work.

On the matter of safety, lets start by trying to get statistics on the amount of people killed by overdosing on vitamins, ever. Next compare that to the amount of people killed by overdoses or misapplication of prescription drugs per year . Next compare that to the amount of people that die from ingesting soap per year. You get the picture?

Dr. Frederick Klenner administered megadoses to many patients, including his own children from as early as the nineteen forties. Dr Robert Cathcart prescribed megadoses to over 20,000 patients between 1970 and 1993. Abram Hoffer has treated thousands of patients with large doses. The Center For The Improvement Of Human Functioning International in Wichita Kansas has administered i.v. C for over 30 years. Jeannie Drisko of the University of Kansas Medical Center reported no adverse side effects in well over 1000 doses given to patients in a recent clinical study, with many of the doses being 75g (not 75mg but 75000mg). and some being as much as 100g. I have personally taken as much as 40g in one 24 hour period and regularly take over 16g per day. As for "rebound scurvy", why on earth, would someone suddenly drop their vitamin c intake from say 30g per day to 1g per day? What would they be trying to prove? That "rebound survy" exists? Congratulations! It exists so, now what?(By the way the proponents advise that ones vitamin c intake should always be reduced gradually.)

Apparently there are moves afoot to have vitamins and supplements more closely regulated. (Do a search on CODEX Alimentarius) Some folks want vitamins to be made available by prescription only. I wonder who those folks are? Drug companies perhaps or maybe Doctors? How dare we, to try and take charge of our own health!
haiyent
ever wonder why the need to regulate that now???

commone sense, you tell me why. Not that the authority do not want people to be healthy.

It's just that people are doing crazy things! Swallowing pills by the dozens, fine.
Now going to inject high doses of vitamin C. what's next?

The moment people are doing that, it's no longer called vitamin. That is called taking DRUG!!!

You don't take vitamins like that.By definition vitamins,we only need tiny bits of it.
and that megadoses and now even giga in IV forms!!

We no longer talking about taking vitamins, we are taking DRUGS, that's the way i see it.

In smalll doses it is vitamin , it appropriate dose it may be drug, in giga doses you watch out.
Alan Searchwell
QUOTE (haiyent+May 5 2007, 01:37 PM)
It's just that people are doing crazy things! Swallowing pills by the dozens, fine.
Now going to inject high doses of vitamin C. what's next?

The moment people are doing that, it's no longer called vitamin. That is called taking DRUG!!!

You don't take vitamins like that.By definition vitamins,we only need tiny bits of it.
and that megadoses and now even giga in IV forms!!

We no longer talking about taking vitamins, we are taking DRUGS, that's the way i see it.

In smalll doses it is vitamin , it appropriate dose it may be drug, in giga doses you watch out.

There is something else that humans can consume like that. It's called food. Vitamins are found in most if not all of the five basic food groups. In the case of vitamin C, humans are among the few species of animals that can not produce their own vitamin c. In all other mammals except primates and guinea pigs vitamin c is produced by enzymatic reactions in the liver with increrased amounts being produced as a reaction to stress (physical or otherwise). Human beings are almost capable of donig this but, we lack one enzyme in the chain of enzymes that produce vitamin c from glucose. When one looks at the data on the amount of vitamin c produced by other animals, it is obvious that normal levels of vitamin c intake are probably well above the 90mg RDA. If one examines the myriad of bodily functions in which vitamin c plays a critical role, one would be tempted to classify it as an essential nutrient and not a vitamin.

For further reading you can read Irwin Stone's book " The Healing Factor - Vitamin C Against Disease" the entire text of which is available at The Vitamin C Foundation's web site. Also available online in it's entirety, "Vitamin C The Master Nutrient.. by Sandra Goodman, Ph.D. ".

Last year this time, about six weeks after easter, I found out that my father was terribly ill. He was bedridden, with poor circulation in one leg that had turned very dark (he is a Negro my mother was caucasian). He also has prostate cancer which he is taking medication for. I went to visit him and took with me two types of 1000mg vitamin c tablets, a timed release and a regular variant. I also took some ascobic acid powder. I begged him to just take two tablets with every meal, regardless of whatever else he was doing. He went to a hospital saw a doctor and was prescribed some medication. Today he is up and about and he is healthy. What he was suffering from in my opinion, is the onset of clinical scurvy or "acute induced scurvy" as it was called by one of the leading vitamin c proponents. People who are aware of it this, frequently observe this condition (Acute Induced Scurvy) in cancer patients. Most doctors do not recognize these symptoms as scurvy.

My father and I are preparing to go to England to visit his daughter, my sister, who is now in an "end of life" facility having exhausted all her options for orthodox cancer treatment. Barring a miracle, SHE IS GOING TO DIE. Do you think we should go for i.v. vitamin c? What would you do in her situation?